Teens & Screens: Is Social Media Helping or Hurting?

looking and posting and liking. There's nothing else to do. My guest today is dr yelled the rules before we start chatting. I have gotten the biggest get, as they call it in the entertainment world. It's not Beyonce. It's my daughter, Elliott Stephanopolis. That's right, after many publicists and agents and blackmailing, I finally got her on my show. I'm talking about growing a teenager in a pandemic. And you are a teenager in a pandemic, and you're my

teenager in a pandemic. So I'm your first teenager, You're my first one. Yes. So Elliott, what are one of the things that you hate about when people generalize your generation? Oh, there's a lot of things I hate about the generalizations people make about gen z Um. I really like the reputation that we're rising up and being asked to this.

That's something I strongly believe in and relate to. I feel like teenagers in general, and especially now, get no credit for how hard we're working and being teenagers hard. You're in school, you have a lot to worry about your future, you have a lot to regret about your past, you have a lot to think about in the present um and you're you don't know who you are and

you're questioning that. So I wish people were less judgy on teenagers, and I wish that more people remembered what they were like as teenagers, but not put that on other people, because people will think of their one experience as a teenager and assume every teenager is like that.

You're absolutely right, which I don't think it's there. And I also think, like you've said, oh, I'm worried about social media, that my kids are gonna have empathy, they're not going to know how to look people in the eye. But that's not social media's fault. That's how you're raised and what your manners are and what your social skills are which varies for everyone. So I just think this narrative that technology is ruining our children should be stopped.

I'm not saying at all that technology can be so bad and social media can be so bad, but we also have to think, isn't it so nice that there's ways for people to find community and there's ways to connect with people all over the world. Yeah, I think you're right, But I think that that's that's because I didn't grow up with that, so it's an unknown to me, and usually unknowns in the world make us fearful, you

know what I mean. You're the first generation to grow up with it, and so I don't know how to parent social media. Yeah, thank you, Elliott. I love you. You should be parenting me. You can say something back, Okay, I mean that's that's it. I was just gonna say that I was I've always been described as like the mom's figure in my friend group. Everyone was like, Oh, you're such a mom. You're such a mommy, So I feel like I could raise you. Yeah, you probably could

probably do a good job. But now, on a more serious topic, I'm asking somebody that's a scientist and a researcher Dr Yella Uls thank God to come in and help me unpack the pros and cons of social media and how much screen time these kids should be on. She is an award winning child psychologist, a leading expert on how media affects children, and author of one of my favorite books, Media Moms and Digital Dads. Welcome and

I need you. I'm so happy to be here. Um. I mean, social media was a slippery slope before the pandemic, but now I'm finding that in a pandemic a lot of rules are off. Parents don't know how much, how little, what to do. The digital revolution grabbed ahold of our teams when it started, but now in the pandemic, I mean,

have we completely lost them to the digital age. No, they're totally fine, and actually, frankly, the fact that they have social media is actually a saving grace during this time because it's so developmentally normal and this is one of the few ways that they can safely socialize with their friends. So without social media, ironically, our children would be really suffering. Especi lee tweens, teens, and emerging adults

I mean actually teenage years now. By the way, the National Academy of science says it goes all the way up to age So teens to the age of twenty five. Really, wait a second, teenagers go to twenty five? Now? Yeah, yeah, as your teens get older, you will see their brains. You can see the difference in their brains all the way up to twenty five. Okay, So, so so I now have teenagers till I'm till they're twenty five. I'm sorry, No,

that's okay, My med's for this. Um, So let's talk about the teenage brain for a second, because I think sort of the old school way of looking at childhood was, you know, baby, toddler, preteens. But the brain itself, there is medical reasons why teenagers react the way they do, and all of it is about the prefuntal cortex, isn't that what you would say? What's how it's developed? Ye? And and with teenagers, I've certainly noticed with my girls

their risk seekers and they want reward. Now would you say that that's kind of what propels them into their behavior these two things? Yeah, I mean, and it's it's again like it's our brain has adapted over thousands and thousands of years in reaction to our environment. They need to leave our houses, right and we don't understand having already successfully done it when when we had to leave, how scary that is. So for them to leave our houses,

they need to be like, oh, I'm so excited. I'm ready for the risk and I'm ready for the rewards. So it's actually making it easier for them to actually become adults the way that their brain has developed. So this risk and reward to us just seems crazy, but to them it's what they need. So what happens in a pandemic? If you're teen and I'm saying, if you have a child up to twenty five, can't leave the home right now? Is there no risk or reward? Well,

there's online risk and reward always is. And if your child is someone who would normally have offline risk and reward or risky behavior, um, you know, there is lots of evidence that they will use the online world in the same way. So you know, what do you mean, like go to the dark web web they could hack, you know, like that guy that just hacked all those

Twitter accounts. You know he had a problematic family life and he used you know, the web and the tools there, but his life I mean, he was like that in real life, right, right, right. So let me ask you

a question. So if you had let's say a teenager that was maybe prone to a lot of scary risk, maybe it was drugs or partying or stealing whatever whatever that looked like, do you think during the pandemic that that was all channeled into a different way, meaning like hacking and this underlying problems would need to be treated.

There are you know, addiction and online addiction. It's not really fully the science isn't totally there, but there's good indication that a certain percentage do get addicted to video games or problematic internet behavior, um, social media. Girls, you know girls, I'm sorry, it's gender use social media at a higher rate. So we're going to get into that. Believe me. We're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back. Welcome back with more. Go ass Galley.

So you quote it in your book that people just have this core desire to express who they are, Mark Zuckelberg quote. And I think that's true. And I think we just touched upon girls. And this is a fascinating area for me because I have two girls, and I spoke in an earlier podcast with Brookshields because she was fascinating to me because she was so sexualized as a young girl. You know, she played a prostitute at twelve years old in the film and and so now she's

got teenage girls. And I said, well, how are you, how are you coping with that? And how are you setting rules for that? Because you know you were pretty baby, you know you were in blue lagoon with your boobies hanging out. Now, how can you possibly tell your teenage daughters you can't do this? And it was an interesting discussion, but I'm happy to have an expert on to kind

of discuss this because, um, I think it's true. And you just said, and I'd love you to talk more about the girls they have that need to belong, need to be liked, seeing much more than boys. Oh yeah, and we see the sexualized behavior online. It reflects offline again.

And you know, I teach a class to undergradum called Digital Media and Human Development at u c l A. And you know, I go through this whole there's this heterosexual script which, um, it's in the real world, right, girls look sexy, boys pursue for sex, girls saying no, we see it online exactly the same. You know these the girls still do this like hey and and sexting, you know, they're they're the ones boys work out a yes online to try to get a girl to sex them.

It's called digital dating abuse. And their behaviors both sides like girls, Um, girls monitor boys and they stalk them, and boys, you know, are pushy and there's there's abuse there and sort of checking everyone online, and girls are sexualized, you know. And I have a daughter, she's twenty years old, and you know, she's still on social media quite a lot, posting, still a teenager, recording to you, yes, exactly, and she's very Are you aware of every single like and post

and comment and heart and the way she looks. I don't know if your daughter's make you take like you know, or they do it fifteen thousand pictures before they post one. I was so upset years ago when I was noticing my girls, you know, in middle school, and all of a sudden, I was dealing with parenting things. Of course, my mother, Muffie never taught me, but you know, we didn't grow up with social media, so there were no

rules or parenting advice about it. But um, I remember one of my daughters came back from middle school and said that some girl in their class had sent a nude photo to a bunch of boys in the class. And my response was, that's child pornography. Those boys are going to get arrested, and you know, And then I went, oh, my god, there's this whole other world I don't know anything about as a parent, and I got to figure this out because this is the new normal, and I

don't want to get my girls in trouble. And then one time, my older teenage daughter was on Skype or something and this thing popped up and said, hey, do you want to go on a date? Or something popped up on her social media and it said, you know, hey, I'm a sugar daddy. I'm gonna buy you lots of gifts,

you know, just crazy stuff. Because the old school way of looking at fears out there was, you know, my daughter would be walking down the street and someone say, hey, I lost a dog, can you get in my car? You know that abduction. But now I'm terrified that social media is a trap for these young girls. So if you sexualize yourself, these predators are going to come hungry. Yeah, yeah,

they'll find you. I mean they would find you offline, but you know you just said it in the old school way, they would have been able to actually grab you. And the reality is somebody who meets someone online. So it's like your your daughter saw that and probably went you gross and told you about it, right, But if it was a girl who was feeling needy and didn't have a good family life, or was sexualized at a young age or abuse, they might go and meet the person.

But it's such a small percentage. I mean in one year, like six seven years ago, it's only like cases across the United States that got to prosecution. It's really again somebody who you can see it in their offline life and then they use these tools and then they do fall into the trap. But if you're not seeing it in their offline life, there's very good chance they're not

gonna learn. And it's really important parenting of course, which my book says social media, social media, make sure you're there and you, as a good parent, have set it all up with them and make sure that you know the tools as well, so that they know when, um they should respond and how to respond, etcetera. And so should I be monitoring all their social media might be on everything. Now I'm not. I'm not, but well, I think you should sign up for their I think, especially

at the very beginning in the first transition. So for my daughter, when she went on, she had posted a photo and she was very innocent at that age, and posted a photo of her hanging off of a pole in our backyard in a little dress and it was like a fireman's poll off of our fort. You could only see the poll part right, So what does a poll make you think of? He's a stripper? Yeah, So, like I had to sort of very carefully talk to her about things like that because she didn't have adult eyes.

So I think at the beginning that she made a lot of mistakes. She's still making mistakes, but things because I was there, because I was watching, I wouldn't comment on the photos. You know that that will freak them out and they'll get really upset. But one of her friends posted about shoplifting, you know, publicly, and and you know things like that, you just sort of talked to them about what are you posting? What are you not posting? And you know there are real consequences now for this

generation for college. Um, yes, I say that a lot I mean I've really I've heard a lot of stories like that, and uh even it happened in in my girls school too. Same thing. It's it's they somehow think that if it's on their Finsta or insta like, somehow that's private enough that it's not going to get out. But again with the with the selfies, in the attention

and this kind of attention on yourself. And believe me that, when I see on other teenage girls social media, boys saying like you'd be hotter if you had bigger boobs or all that kind of stuff, I just like, oh my god, it's so hard for them in general. But but this leads to you know, even more body images and food issues and plastic surgery. Talk about that a little because that's another concern. Yeah. So, um, I mean the sad thing is they get validated for those bikini shots.

So you know, if they post a shot that's just their friends hanging out or a landscape shot, um, they don't get as many likes, they don't get as many comments, they get validated for it. So become it becomes this cycle. You're going to post more and more to try to get people to like you. Um, What they have found though, is that posting selfies in and of itself isn't necessarily related to any of these negative outcomes. Um you know, and it's not necessarily related to lower self esteem or

body issues. But editing your selfies and sort of obsessively thinking about your selfies and taking many those are related to negative issues. So one cautionary um thing to talk about possibly with young people is talking about editing and why they're doing it, and why they're filtering and why do they feel the need to look better. And I just want to say, by editing, you mean like face tune and all these apps that can make exactletely more

of your image. Yeah, exactly. So those they do find that girls who um you know obsess over taking selfies and then um face tune or or edit, they they filter, they put filters on, etcetera. Those girls have more body image issues. And we're also finding it with boys too, and you may know with boys at a younger and younger age, many of them. We have a little a kid, my my my friends kid, he's seven. He's like, I'm fat and he's I mean, it's so sad, or where's

my six pack? Like you know. I mean, the thing is, these images are everywhere now, right. They used to be in magazines and on TV, but now they're everywhere in their lives seven. So they do impact kids in very bad ways sometimes, and by the way that it impacts me as a as an old lady, because there are times when I've had a you know, a picture taken to me, or I took a selfie and my daughters go right on to face tune and they fix me, and I go, don't fix me, don't fix me. I

don't want to. You know. I remember once we were posing as a family on the beach and my daughter fixed my body like literally, like all of a sudden, had a way said, you know, my legs were longer, And I said, don't do that to me, because I am proud enough, I'm fine with who I am. I don't want to project this image. But it made me nervous that that was her, that that's what she wanted to do, that was her automatic go to thing with

the picture. You know, well, the culture is telling her that and her peers are, but I mean, ultimately, you're the strongest person in her life, so you know, she may be going through those teenage years where popularity and all that peer influence is very important. But she's going to come back to hopefully that strong self esteem that you're role modeling. But the majority of people are fine, okay, So we're okay there. Yeah, life is okay, it really is.

And and it's funny because you know, I don't know if you've noticed this, but now that they have media seven, they're sort of let loose. There are a lot of kids that are like, I don't really want to be on it today. I'm sick of it. You know. Can we do a puzzle? Can we hang out? Um? So so odd, We're not there yet. I can't wait. I mean I really can't wait. I'm getting nervous because and and let me let me just first ask you this.

With the consumerism that's so inherent in social media, my um, teenage girls follow a lot of social influencers, I don't know what I do if I had a daughter that said I want to be a social influencer person, I have to look it up. But then I have. But I mean, everywhere there are micro influencers. I have twenty undergrads in my lab. I'm pretty sure a few of

them are trying to be social influencers. Uh, and maybe that's a legitimate adlication in the future, and I have no reason to judge that, and you know, maybe that is so. So I would say, you know what, do what are you trying to sell? And if you're trying to sell your body, that's a different thing than trying to sell your comedy or trying to sell your political point of view or trying to sell your your creativity. UM. There is a study that I thought was very interesting,

UM that showed that UM girls who followed. So here's something you can do and try it make your girls follow like four other leadership type women women that are you know, like if you know that are or or influencers that are not doing it with their body, So that these people start showing up in their feed and they have reinforcement and are learning from other sort of points of views really smart comedy or Michelle Obama or whoever you know, pete role models and and apparently that

does start to get them thinking about different ways of being. But if they're not, if they're only following these sort of traditional stereotypical UM influencers that are you know, doing the makeup tutorials and all of that. That's all they'll see. So you got to get other things into their feet. Say okay, it's okay that you do that, as long as we talk about it and you sort of we can look at a few together and try to understand what's Here's what I see? What do you see when

you see that really sexy picture? Um? And then what I want you to put? A few other people, follow a few other people. So it's kind of the old magazine model, because you know, when you get Marie Claire some magazine, you know it's all gorgeous sexy women. But then there'll be an article about like Syrian refugees, so you feel like, okay, it's not all about how good my thighs look. Um. But I think that's a great idea. Yeah. I don't know if you've you know, social comparison I

talked about in my book and Upwards. Social comparison, which is when you um look at someone who's ahead of you on whatever markers you you know, it could be they they're really successful in sports, or they're really gorgeous, whatever you you care about, and it can inspire you or can make you feel really bad and often it can make because you're You're like, I'll never get there. I can never do that. I'm too and and it you know, I mean all of us are subject to that.

I'm subject to that all the time. And social media puts it on steroids, right, you know, So if you can make it, have people that are maybe sort of at a level where they might be able to reach U. Not about the prize winner, yeah exactly, I mean I think of those two. But it's interesting during this pandemic with Black Lives Matter that there was kind of a shift I noticed with teenage girls especially, but they kind of got off themselves for a little while and they

were becoming little activists. And I think that was also because there is a mainstream sort of need and popularity about doing that as well. But you know, we can't count on movements to come around and sort of have our teenagers. I know, I wish we could, though, I'm like,

why is it not continuing? I mean, I think it is, and and honestly, I think this generation, which is amazing, this generation um really does care more about social causes and social issues, and because of the tools of the Internet, more voices are out there. I mean, you know, we do work with studios on representation, and you know, we've seen that there's a lot of people talking about changing representation and changing who the gatekeepers are and really changing

the executives and they have more voice. I used to be a movie executive, and when I was a movie executive, we would never talk about that, like nobody considered it um And it's so prevalent now. And I think generation that's very multicultural under a T is um minority majority minority, so people of color. That's fantastic. And I mean, I

mean you can see it. I mean, I saw a shift in the pandemic, but I can also see it now on from talking to my kids and their friends and what they're watching, that their need now is a different thing. You know, they're dphoria. They want they want deeper Americans. Yeah, which is a which is a great thing to see. And it makes me think that maybe this kind of narcissism when it comes to themselves and social media will change too. It'll be less about the

visual and more about the voice, you know what I mean? Please, I agree. And we even saw like we looked at how many what the top shows were last year versus the pandemic and it changed, it completely changed. And All American, which is a show I love. UM was not a top show last year, but it became a top show in the pandemic because people were trying to learn. And it's a great show. I mean, it's it's a teen

show and it deals with all the teen issues. Um. You think I'd be selling it or something, but I mean I think that. You know, I'm sort of worried about the negative, but there are a lot of positive things right now about social media in the pandemic. Now, a quick word from our sponsors. Welcome back to go ask Gali. Let's get back to the discussion. One of the things that I saw with my own kids, which was so amazing was there was no fomo. My girls

had no phone. Everybody was in the same boat. They weren't missing a sleepover or a party or anything, and they were so relaxed. I didn't realized how much that consumed our social lives. Yeah, fomo is a bad one. And you know again, it's it's social comparison too. That's the same thing. Oh, I should be out, I should be doing that, I should be with those people. But when you don't see that, oh everyone's at home or we're only talking one to one or in a little group,

then you don't you feel better? So yeah, no, foma. But also, we actually teach talent at Disney. We teach actors, and we teach them life skills. And we did our first class with them, and I thought they were going to be really upset because they weren't working, and the parents were going to be upset. They were so relaxed and so happy that they didn't have to go seven. They were actually enjoying the family time. So yeah, there's

a lot of great things. But I mean, you've you've seen it to all lots of people are like, you know, let's not lose everything when we go back. Yes, yes, I saw. I mean even George, my husband, and I and our kids. Now that things I've opened up a little bit in New York, you guys. I know it's horrible in California, but things have opened up a little bit in New York, and we're having all kinds of anxiety about, oh God, do I really want to go

back out there. I mean, and my teenage girls too, Like I didn't even want to go to all these parties all the time or I didn't want to, you know, so we're that is posing a big challenge. But the other positive thing was certainly when we were quarantined, there was a lot of uncertainty and fear as there still is about what the world is and what it looks like, and it's scary. And I think that a lot of kids got to go on social media and just watch

stupid YouTube, you know, TikTok. TikTok, Yeah, TikTok. In fact, every time at dinner we would talk about the pandemic or something political, my younger daughter would go into this weird TikTok trance where she would just like her arms would start moving and her head and we go, oh my god, we've lost her and she's in TikTok world. But that was her safety place, it really was. That's where she would go to not think about, you know, the end of the world was. You know, we're all

feeling yeah. And you know, the thing about TikTok, which I think is different, definitely different than Instagram, is people are willing to sort of you know, look silly and do silly things. And those are a lot of things that trend. You know, there's a lot less sort of positioning of themselves and and it is pure entertainment, and you know, people can rise to the top just sort of just being who they are. It feels a little

more authentic. I did notice I had a few friends my age and I would look on social media and I would see that they were doing a TikTok with their kids, you know, and I go, what youre doing? She goes, it's a pandemic. I'm losing my mind, you know. But I think it was another thing that families were We're sharing totally. There are so many people doing dances. I mean, my daughter posted several of us. She was like, it's a thing, mom, it's trending. Yeah, but it did

get them. You know, they're so insular with their social media that TikTok did sort of open it up a little bit. And they're humiliated by their parents, you know, doing something with them. Are they able now to or have you seen studies where they're able to take social cues from being online? Yes? Yeah, they're learning social cues from this stuff. I mean, I just did research. I released a study earlier this year where we found that kids today six grade kids today versus from two thousand

seventeen versus two thousand and twelve. They can read nonverbal emotional cues and photographs expressions of people in photographs better than kids before. So, which what that tells you is that they're learning from this stuff. Their look at the stuff and they're learning. We're not seeing it. I mean, I don't know study about video, but you know we've seen we've done studies around television. You do learn, and there are certain ages where they can learn it more.

Um you know, so there's very young children, it's very hard for them to learn from video, but as they get older, they do. They're they're learning. So that's the good news. It's kind of scary sometimes because as I said in my book at the end, I don't want us to turn into Wally. We're all inside eating and only on virtual devices. But the good news is during this pandemic, it's helping our teens um and tweens meet

their developmental needs. And what about empathy. Empathy, you know, it is best learned face to face and in real life where you can because there are a lot of

social cues you can't get from even video. Like we're doing a study right now, we're actually looking to see if you can learn emotional learning more on video, because everybody's on video now, so we think the pandemic might have changed it, um, you know, but the reality is, you know, there's so much more you can learn because we from an entire situation, you know, and even like, I'm not really looking you in the eyes right now, and you're not really looking me in the eyes. And

it's weird to be looking at myself on camera. There's all these weird things that I hope they're not online shopping while we're talking. Yeah, exactly, look at that. I got commat so so yelled. Can you give me a few things as a parent that I should be looking for when it comes to my teens and social media right now in the pandemic. What are a few things that are worrisome? Well, lack of sleep. They could be on those TikTok's and social media all night long. Try

to get the phone out of them. Yeah, I think if you really see that there's an issue. Sleep has the you know, one of the strongest connections to mental health issues, UM and anxiety and emotional regulation and all sorts of stuff. So and media in the bedroom definitely impacts sleep also to that they're just they're not using it to socialize, they're not using it to communicate. There's a theory called rich get Richer that extroverts use social

media to connect and have fun. And you know they're they're using it in positive ways because it's just another communication tool, but there are plenty of people that may be using it just to space out. They get more and more obsessed about scrolling, scrolling looking at the photos.

You know, it's not healthy, and you that doesn't mean necessarily you take the phone away, because, um, it can be something they feel very strongly about that does connect them friends, but you really should talk to them about it and maybe get treatment, you know, maybe have them talk. It's very easy now, it's much easier to do online therapy now, so you know things like that that, um, you know, if you see issues where they're they're just

separating and using this tool to isolate versus communicate. Okay, and my last question to you, are you giving us parents permission to be a little bit lax right now that we're in a pandemic with social media totally and mostly most importantly, I mean, we you just have to understand that they need to be with friends, and as painful as that is sometimes you know, in the old pre pandemic life when they were on their phones all the time or rejecting you because they want to go out,

that is what they need to do to grow up safely and healthy. Because kids under eighteen, if they go into solitary confinement, actually impacts their brain development. And that is because they need to be around people in a way that adults don't. So we are you know, by having need you, they're allowed to connect and they they're using it to create too. Even if it's not you know, even if it's a TikTok, it's still fun and something

that they're doing. I am totally giving. Mainstream media is not interested in, like you know, letting parents off the hook. They always want to write about the negative effects, but the reality is there's so much research out there that says, you know, I don't know if you know about the study where they looked at mental health and um and teens and social media and they found that there's a teeny negative effect for people who use social media way

too much. But it's the same negative effect as eating a potato. Is that a negative effect eating exactly eating a potato has the same effect on your mental health as being on social media. Oh my god, that's so much better than I assumed. Yes, it's so much better than you assume. It really is that the word doesn't get out there. So thank you for giving me this opportunity to thank you for being so optimistic. You know, I was just like social media was just a way

into sex trafficking to me. But now I'm like, Okay, it's okay, it's actually positively making me activists. Okay, thank you so much. Um, Dr Yelled the rules, and thank you for being with me. And I now that I have your email, UM, I feel bad for you because I'm going to questions so they're Jesus. Okay, thank god for you. I could talk to Dr Yelled at Wolves all day about so many different things, but that's the

end of our time. I would love to get up right now, but I have an obese stocks and on my lap and I'm afraid if I wake her up, she'll bite me. Don't forget to subscribe and follow me on my social media on Twitter, Ali e Wentworth and Instagram the real Ali Wentworth. Okay, crowmo queen, go ask Gali is a production of Shondaland Audio and partnership with

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