Rebroadcast: Under Pressure w/ Dr. Lisa Damour

episode about supporting our teens. Why because I have two teenagers and its final exam season and it's oh my god, we're having a last minute, socially distant prom season and all the craziness that's been happening in the world and the most insane school year in history. And that's why I would love you to listen to an episode I

did with psychologist Dr Lisa Damore. I thought very important and very pertinent to air an episode about managing all the ups and downs that our teens are experiencing right now. Let's hope it helps enjoy my conversation. Hi, Emlie went Worth, And you're listening to Go Ask Ali, And today I'm specifically asking how do you grow a somewhat stress free girl in a pandemic? And my guest today is Dr Lisa Damore. She's a psychologist. She has written what I

call the Two bibles to surviving raising girls. One is untangled and one is under pressure. And I think under pressure couldn't be more relevant right now because we are in a pandemic, there are wildfires raging, there is all kinds of civil unrest, there's political unrest. What girl is not completely stressed out and anxious? Am I right? Oh? Yeah? Absolutely?

On that book. That book came out in February, and I I couldn't have imagined then how germane it would be, to what would unfold since then one one would hope it wouldn't be as Germane as it is now, but it's uh, it couldn't be more relevant. So, um, you about healthy stress, And in my opinion, healthy stress is

what kind of propels us forward. I think of healthy stress as you know, my daughter trying out for the lacrosse team, or I think about for myself when I did the Tonight show for the first down, I mean, my my knees were gonna buckle, but you know it was an anxiety that gave me adrenaline and actually propelled me to be funny. And so talk to me about

healthy stress in your terms. So we've always understood in psychology that stress is normal, expectable, totally unavoidable, and we're going to experience it any time we operate at the edge of our capacities, and when we operate at the edge of our capacities, we expand our capacities. So you do it once it's terrifying, you do at the second

time it's slightly less terrifying, which means you grow. And so the culture, prior to all of the COVID and everything, had come to give stress a pretty bad name, you know, had sort of given people the impression that the goal is to feel calm and relaxed all the time. That's never been something we've seen in psychology. If you're stressed, you're usually growing, and sometimes it's good stuff that's making you grow, and sometimes it's bad stuff that's making you grow,

like going through a hard time in your life. But it's all growth and it all contributes to increasing durability. And so our general view has been really positive towards stress. Right now, we're into one of the two kinds of stress that we actually don't feel positive about. So we don't like trauma, which some people have experienced, and we don't like chronic stress, which everyone is experiencing right now.

So no psychologist is going to say this level of stress is good for you, because you say there's three types of stress, right life events, daily hassles, and chronic stress, and you're saying the latter is the one we're feeling now, and that's the bad one. That's one of the bad ones. And and the way we see stresses, it's okay if you get a break, and it's okay if it doesn't blow you out of the water. So we don't like trauma because that blows people out of the water, but

we do like things like the stress of school. School is supposed to be stressful. You work really hard, you learn something new, and then you rest and then you go back to it. But stress without break, whether it's in the context of something like COVID nineteen which never goes away and impinches on every aspect of our lives, or whether it's a context of living in poverty or living in a dangerous situation that just wears people down. And so the aim right now is to really buffer

chronic stress for our kids and for ourselves. And what's the difference between stress and anxiety. We are a family of anxiety, but is that different from stress. It sounds like it's the same thing. We can define them very sort of technically as different. You know, in psychology we like to make these like very fine grain distinctions, So we say, anxiety is more in the neighborhood of fear. Stress is more in the neighborhood of pressure. But in real life they get all tangled up with each other.

You know that if I live under chronic stress conditions and they're going to make I feel anxious. If I'm anxious all the time, that's stressful. So it doesn't mean that much to try to distinguish them in terms of their actual functioning in our day to day lives. They're both exhausting, they both can have useful forms, and they both can cross the line from healthy to unhealthy. Because this is putting us in sort of a state of chronic stress. Should we all medicate? I mean, should I

medicate my teenage girl? I don't know what to do. I can't tell the difference between what would be normal stress and what is you know, them worrying about every aspect of the globe, right, And at this point it's almost impossible not to um medications and option I wouldn't go with it as the first choice. I think we get stuff before we get there. I'm good, good, Yes, So there are things, you know, when we look at

like what does it mean to manage chronic stress? What that takes us into is the department of coping, right that it's all about coping and how we're coping and what's been happening. I mean, since the minute this came down on us, everybody started coping. It's a very intuitive thing. We all start doing it. What we want to watch out for is how are people coping? Because there's bad

coping and there's good coping. Son, give me an example of that, you want to Yes, So bad coping is stuff that works really well in the short term, but not well in the long term. So it's stuff like misusing substances highly effective in the short term helps you feel better, not a good long term strategy. Um, taking bad care of oneself, you know, using what I call

junk habits. You know, so taking your phone to bed and scrolling and scrolling instead of sleeping, or only watching you know, TV all the time, or only eating comfort foods. Those feel good, but they don't hold up. So in their place, what we want for everyone, grown ups and

kids alike, is good coping. So that means good solid social relationships and staying connected in ways that are sustaining, and instead of abusing substances, using happy distractions, finding things that let us take a mental vacation from the pandemic and then come back to it having gotten some restoration and a break. Are you saying like a walk or I want to just be so For some people, the mental vacation is I'm going to go lose myself in a book. You know, I'm just gonna go get lost

in sixteenth century England. I'm gonna take a vacation there. For some people, they're like, I'm going to go being to watch a TV show just for you know, the afternoon. For some people it's like going out in nature. They can just let everything fall away. And so when it comes to mental vacations, I think the goal is to make sure that you have what yours. You know what works for you, we know it works for our kids. We help make those happen because we need these vacations.

We don't get other vacations right now, and so that and then incredibly good self care at this point is a non negotiable. When New York was really bad during the pandemic. I mean I I just made bad parenting choices, and one of them was because I don't I don't drink or do drugs or smoke, but I ate a lot of ice cream because um, that was my comfort. And I just went to the doctor and my cholesterols

three hundred. And the interesting thing is that it was my two teenage girls that said, Mom, that's really bad, like you, you know, they sorted sort of parenting me, and I felt like there was a moment where I let I let go of the reins. And that's not always the right thing to do well And in the short term maybe a little, but in the long term, no, right. And I think that that's what we're up against with this pandemic, is that it is a long term engagement.

You know, that this is not something that we're hunkering down for two or three weeks and then can just you know, go back to normal. You know, one of my colleagues that I thought it was so beautiful. She's like, we have to move from coping to adaptation, you know, to really start to think, all, right, how do we live in a healthy way, given the conditions we're in, right, So, Lisa, I have to ask you this is the this is the big question for a parent, particularly right now in

a pandemic. How do we manage a meltdown? You could write a whole book on that bytem Yeah, I can, profitely. Somebody could absolutely. Um So. The first is, meltdowns are at an all time high. You know, I think everybody's reserves are spent. Um. I think there's so little that is filling young people up. So everything that doesn't go well in my experience, things are going to meltdown pretty quickly, more than usual. I've never gotten the finger more than

I have my whole life. I have the past few months. Yeah, it's it's a it's a hair trigger finger right now and people have no resources. Um So, the first thing you have to do to manage the meltdown is you actually have to be in kind of be some shape yourself, because meltdowns are so upsetting and so exhausting. Is apparent that triggering. So if you can get yourself a good night's sleep and go out for a walk before you

hit that meltdown, you're gonna be in better shape. Okay, I think the first thing you do with the meltdown is you recognize that more than anything, what the person wants probably is just to be heard. That when they're deeply upset and having a sort of you know, saying other things are in stink. And this is true if the meltdown is our kid or our spouse or an employee, is to wait for them to stop talking so that we can make a suggestion about what might make things better.

And it's such a well meaning instinct, and it's usually the opposite of what's wanted. That's so often when we are having a meltdown or a kid is having a meltdown, we just need to say it all out, get it out of our head, in front of ourselves, onto the table, and just let it be heard. And so the first thing to do when managing a meltdown is actually to not try to think of solutions and just try to listen really carefully and make it clear that you listened.

And the way you make it clear that you listened, and this is easy to say, very hard to do, is you listen so intently that you can take that three paragraph meltdown and summarize it back to the person in one golden sentence. And it's a real challenge. So you might have a kid tell you how awful school is, and none of it is fun and it just stinks and there's ofen to look forward to. And if you say with full tenderness, it's like school is all vegetables

and no dessert, usually you're done. Usually they could be like, thank you, and it's over. If you start making suggestions, usually you exasperate, and that's what happens in my house. Yet, so first and foremost, listen, and then try to just see if you can get the heart of it and return it as a gift. And if you're not sure to do it tentatively, you know, like, is this what

you're saying? That is wildly powerful? And then if you still need to keep going, which you usually don't, if you've gotten it right but it's not easy to get it right, then go straight to empathy. Just say, honey, this stinks. You are right, this stinks, and stop and and and just make it clear that you can tolerate that they are unhappy, which means that they can tolerate that they are unhappy. Um. And then if you still need to keep going, you can validate their distress. You

can say, look, you're having the right reaction. Anyone in your shoes would be this upset. But those are the first steps I would take with the meltdown. And and you know, eventually you might get the problem solving, but only if you offer to help. You don't throw solutions at kids, But think of meltdowns more as an invitation to show what's happening inside to someone who can stand to hear it. That that's what is being asked, even

if it doesn't always come across that way. And nuclear like I can stand it, you can sit with the discomfort, which is what we're really having to do. A lot is just sitting with the discomfort. I'm saying dick kidos all the time. Look, you've got a few crumby options. There's no good option here. Which crumby option would you like? I hate that? This is where we are. This is where we are. Um. Do you think there's a difference between how girls and boys are reacting to the pandemic

and the stress and anxiety that comes with it. Um, In the most sort of broad strokes, No, I think they all hate it. I think it stinks for all of them. I think you know, the disruption of school that's so um so kind of predominant in the landscape, and that applies to all of them equally. Um. The only really gendered difference I've noticed in this is that the sort of nine to fifteen sixteen year old boys whose social lives were heavily on gaming before this, they're

doing better than anyone else. Like their social lives have been undisrupted by this. They're as happy as it can be socially. So that's the only gender difference from like, Okay, those guys had it figured out, we were giving them a hard time. They're now happier than anyone. The rest of us are trying to figure out how to have a social life. They're just doing what they were doing. That's the big gender difference I've seen. And didn't girls

do that with social media a little bit? Weren't they trying to throw a lot a larger net when it came to followers and following and all that stuff I love to hate. Yeah, they were. But what we see in the data is that social media went up for kids, but they by and large also reported more loneliness. So those two things went up side by side. This summer, so upping the social media has not, for kids in general, staved off feelings of loneliness for those who really were

accustomed to getting to be together in person. Um. I think at this point all kids will tell you a hands down that is their preference, and if they weren't conscious of it before, now they really are. We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back. Welcome back with more. Go ask Alley, all right, let's talk about school, because everybody's on back to school, and you know, I have so many feelings about it as

a parent. You know, I have feelings about kids, certainly, um, underserved kids that are even struggling with getting a computer to be able to be remote and everything. And I just can't imagine that remote schooling in the long term is going to be helpful. And I feel like there are so many other aspects, certainly for teens in high school, that are going to be stunted and hurt. It's such a second choice, you know that that first choice, of course,

would be normal school. Um. What we're seeing when I'm talking to those who are in normal school is that even normal school is pretty not normal right now. It's pretty rigid, it's pretty removed, it's pretty joyless for all involved. Um. Kids don't really get to see their friends in the same way. They don't get to enjoy their teachers company in the same way. It's pretty stiff and uncomfortable. UM. I think kids would often still say they prefer that

to being home. UM. But one of the things that I've been thinking about a lot is I know a lot of kids who are really worried about contamination. And so I think, well, if you've got a kid who is sitting in class so uncomfortable about that kid who's got their mass hanging off their ear, and that kid who's getting way too close, they're better off at home. But what this has given us, it's just like a whole menu of horrible choices, Right, would you like the

horrible choice of doing education from home? Would you like the horrible choice of being anxious at school and this sort of this rigid environment. Um, we right now have nothing to offer kids that really is what they deserve, and and that part is heartbreaking to watch. How do I how do I help my girls with academic confidence in a pandemic? You talk about it a lot in your book, but now that they're confined. How do I

help them with that? Here's where we might have a little room to work to try to actually make some some headway, especially as if we think about girls in academic confidence good, I love, I love a positive and let's find us a little lining in here. Let's do it. Um. One of the soapboxes that is my favorite is about how inefficient girls are about school. That by and large, when we look at how girls do school, they are really good students, but they often to overdo it a

little bit. They're not that tactical. They tend to overstudy, they tend to go over material they already know. They tend not to use their time all that well, even when they are really pressed for time. They can kind of a polish everything to a really high shine as opposed to just getting it done. And um to make broad gender strokes. So this will not apply to all girls. This will not apply to all boys. That's not my kids. Dead direct voices a group are much more efficient about school.

They're much more likely to walk up to something and be like, Okay, what is the absolute least to have to do to get the job done or to get the grown ups off my back in terms of the volume of work kids have. We actually need to think about a boy's approach and encourage girls to be more

strategic in the deployment of their efforts. So one maybe little benefit of this is that UM make of us more immediate contact with how kids are spending their time because they're spending their time in front of us, and it may give us more room to say to either hyperconscientious daughters or sons, you're still studying that like, don't

let a quiz you. I think you might have it right, and to really push them to um to not over study and not over exert and not um try to shoot the lights out on everything if they don't need to. And let's stem from the girls need to please pleasing the parents, pleasing their teachers, pleasing the schools. I mean, isn't that just we have it ingrained in us and so it makes it harder we do. And this is our big chance to disrupt that in our daughters are

big chance. And so I will say to girls, you know, what do you mean you turned in an extra credit in a class where you have an a right Because they will do that and they'll say, well, I didn't want to disappoint the teacher. They're very plugged into. If they've given the extra credit, they fully expect we're going to do it, and so I'm going to do it. And that's actually the moment when you can say, all right, but is that strategic on your part? Or even better?

And this is what I really prefer is if the teacher says, what are you doing turning the extra credit? Because then the teacher says, if you want me to be impressed, I want to see you use your time more efficiently. But this is something we have not traditionally done with girls about school, and I feel like the moment is here and we should really help them. If one of my daughters doesn't do well in a science exam,

it's because Mr. So and so doesn't like her. Tell me how to get them out of this idea of And I'm bringing this back to the pleasing thing because I somehow they correlate that with grades. Well, I would just really push on that assumption and and I would even say, you know, Mr so and so, I think he's gonna grade your fairly, and I think he knows you've got a lot to do, and I think he'll be impressed if you bring in what has to be done. But whether he likes who is actually not important here.

What matters is that you're getting enough sleep that you have energy to do the things you want to do. Yeah, he may still like you, or he may not like you, And what would that be like? I mean to actually entertain that possibility that it is not the girl's job to make sure that all of her teachers feel their

job has been made easy and she is delightful. I mean to even really pick away at that idea, So not to say, like, please go be rude to your teacher, but to say, if he likes you less because you're not turning an extra credit when you don't need to, can we examine if that's fair? Is that okay of him to do? But this is this is actually the other thing again to try to find a little positive in all of this place. Um, we have time for more conversations than we used to have. I have two daughters.

We are having longer, more detailed conversations about these kinds of things. Then the rush of pre COVID life allowed. I think this may be a time when we can just talk more about what they're observing and trouble more what has been conventional. I'm finding personally that I'm having to be much more mindful of my time. My calendar has become much busier than it is healthy for me.

And so talking openly in front of my daughter's about my strategies for turning things down in a way that doesn't damage relationships, or to have my adolescent daughter has something she doesn't want to do and actually have spent time to think with her. All right, how are you going to say no in a way that you feel comfortable with that time for more sort of precise and

deliberate coaching. So often in family life, under normal conditions, we're kind of running around and we don't always do that. So I would say that we can do that now too. Now a quick word from our sponsors, welcome back to go ask Allie. Let's get back to the discussion now. The other big subject in our house is um social life, how to have it, social anxiety? Tell me what you mean by social turmoil because you term that in your book.

What do you mean by social turmoil? So it's the nature of middle school especially and then sometimes sort of carrying over into high school UM for kids to really be anxious about their social connections, to do everything they can to make sure they have social connections because they have sort of loosened their ties to their family and

are trying to strengthen their ties to their friends. And then I've noticed, and this is particular of one of my daughters, that she's actually fine with two friends or one friend, but they have to be her best friend. So there's a big label about best friends. So I find that there's a lot of anxiety with with my girls and girls I know, between having too many and putting too much pressure on one. Well, so what you're

describing is very well established in the research. It it's actually exhausting to have a big, broad social network when we actually look at the data, even if you're getting along, that sense of maintaining an obligation or keeping everybody happy is actually very taxing. So we do see mostly that the least dressed kids have a couple of good friends, you know, that really sort of settled into that group. The anxiety that arrives with that is my group is small.

I need to know what's guaranteed. I don't have an elaborate backup system, and so then there can be the sense of like a tight grip, which you know is what you're describing and can be kind of anxiety provoking. So one way to think about it is there's no perfect solution. Each solution has its downside. So the big social group means you've got a broad network and a lot of backup. The small group means you don't have the stress of a broad network, but you don't have

the backup. But what I what I like about articulating like the ups and downs of these, is that it takes the critique away from the kids I think so often growing up to like, look at those kids with their dumb social configurations, why they made themselves so unhappy?

There's not really a perfect solution for them. I also think during this time, during this pandemic, I have found myself that I have let a lot of acquaintances go and that that I almost don't have time for the bullshit and the chit chat, and I need very few

but significant, strong bonds. And in a strange way, I'm I'm seeing that a little with my teenagers as well, because it's all being done on their phone and on their computer, and they just they literally can't spend twenty four hours on it, so they have to make decisions. You know, I need to work on an English paper, and I do want to say hi to Timmy or Susie, but I can't possibly I can't FaceTime Sarah and Judy and Sophie and Lulu. And you know it's too much.

It's true. I mean, it makes you realize a lot of friendships are very much context driven. You know that we're friends because that person is in our traffic pattern. But if our traffic pattern changes, that doesn't necessarily mean that there's still the person we're gonna want to talk to. And I think kids are finding that also. But then the other thing you're saying, and I'm watching this happen as the months rack up with COVID is everyone is

pretty raw, everyone is pretty depleted. And so then, um, I'm watching myself and I'm watching others get much more um picky about their relational nutrition. I guess is what I would say. You know, we're like, You're like, I can't do dunk food anymore. Like if this is all I've gotten, this is gonna go on for a long time. I'm going to bring in what makes me feel good, what feels supportive, but that draining relationship or that person who's kind of manipulative. Like I can do that under

normal conditions, I cannot do that right now. And I want people to give themselves that permission, Like I really, I know some people are like, well I'm a bad friend. No, no, you you get to take good care of yourself right now, and our kids get take good care of themselves. Can we say that to our kids? Can we say, you know what you're allowed to You wouldn't say let go of your some of your friends, but you're you're allowed to focus on a few right now because there's so

much that you have to deal with. It's okay, you're not going to be unpopular, you know, let's say when we start to go back to school or you know, it's you're you're not going to get bullied or teased or any of the fears that they have because you've made a quieter life for yourself. Absolutely. And the phrase it often helps kids is that you're allowed to accomplish a polite distance with some people, because I think, especially for girls, they don't always feel like there's something between

best friend and cold shoulder. And I think to articulate that that space of like, oh no, there's people from whom I keep a polite distance when I see them in polite but I'm not knocking myself out to be close with them. I think that is really useful. And I also think if there's really a worry, you say,

blame me. Say you know, my mom was being really you know, rigid about this and she said, I can only talk to a few people because I'm you know, spending too much time on the phone, you know, you know, mamal like. And I think that is a huge gift we can give our kids if they need an out, is just to go ahead and say, like, I'll be the bad guy and then that that's a fair thing. I think, Yeah, I say that for everything they're very much it may be the bad guy. It works, It works, Yeah, no,

it absolutely does work. Um. The other thing I that I talked to the girls about is uh, their quote unquote romantic relationships, because you know, they're teenagers and there they would be kind of interacting with each other and whatever that is and smelling each other or whatever they do.

And so I I feel like a lot of girls are not having the normal growth when it comes to that kind of thing because there no one's face to face and there's no parties and you know, all of that, and that that is a that is very anxiety making for my eldest daughter, the idea that, um, there's no love, especially when we're all quarantine watching romantic movies. You know, She's like, I'll never have what Reese Weatherspoon has. So

there's and I don't know how to address that. You know, just wait, you know, wait a few years till you know things have cooled down and you can actually go meet a boy in a mask, not at a movie theater because we might not have movies. I mean, I really I don't know what to say. Um, I think there's missing out. I mean, there's no getting around that. I still think there's flirting at a distance and digitally. I also think we don't give enough airtime to how

much gratification, not entire gratification, but partial gratification. I know teenage girls get from um crushes on people they will never meet. So I was actually just talking with a group of teenage girls about what they were doing that they were interested in. And I didn't quite understand this, but they're like, you know, the Draco TikTok's and like Draco TikTok's. So apparently there's a subset of adolescent girls who find the character Draco Malfoy from the Harry Potter

movies to be very handsome. And there's this whole elaborate, um, you know, world around this guy, and it's collective and it's shared. It's like it's the boy band thing on steroids and across a million platforms, and a lot of times in the course of normal events, that becomes a sort of love life of sorts, you know, the fantasy about that person enjoying them. There's a life size cut out of Timothy shallow ma A in one of my daughter's rooms. Well, there you go. So there's definitely that,

and there's um. And that's what I mean about their watching Netflix romantic movies and they're following all kinds of people on Instagram they've never met. But he's so cute and but but but that's not a tangible that's not a awkward that the boy reaches over to hold your hand kind of thing. That That's my only concern is I wish for teenagers to have those wonderful moments and those missteps getting your lip caught in his braces, all that stuff which I feel like they're missing out on.

Do you know what I mean? I do. It's funny. I don't worry about this that I don't And I'll tell you why. I think teenage boys are wonderful and I love caring for them. In my practice, I think most parents of teenage boys would it be in agreement that when it comes to relational sophistication they lag a bit behind the girls that um and and there's a

reason for this. There's a reason that UM girls are very, very interested in talking with their friends about relationships and they develop a real fluency in this, and boys are socialized by our culture not to do this. There's no biological underpinning for this. But boys are not socialized by our culture to talk about feelings and talk about emotions like girls are, right, and it does drive a bit of a mismatch in terms of sophistication about thinking about

relationships and thinking about engaging in relationships. And I think that mismatch lasts, you know, through high school often. I mean, there's some wonderful, very emotionally in touch and subtly nuanced boys, but I would say if you go on broad strokes and we look at the data, girls have been taught by our culture to think and talk in these ways and boys have not been, to their detriment encouraged. So there's a little part of me that's like, you know,

a little more time for that gap to close. It is, all right, yeah, no, I yes, I completely get it. But it's funny because if I were to write a movie right now, it would be a movie that would be a teenage boy who's during this pandemic completely insular. A couple of years later or a year later, they come out of the pandemic and he's expecting one thing and she's expecting something completely different. How do these two people have a relationship. That's a great question, right, that's

a great question, and I don't need to generalize. And by the way, it could be a girl having romantic watching romantic movies about meeting a girl and vice versa. But I'm just talking about a a certain mentality and gender mentality in this example. Well, we do have some research showing that those, you know, those wonderful romantic movies do actually set the bar a little bit too high.

They make the first kiss seem like you know, there's going to be fireworks, and you know, we all know from real life, like you know, sometimes it's kind of that's just kind of weird, you know. And so one thing we can do as parents when we're watching our daughters, you know, get very excited about our romantic sons. You know, I'd feel like that's Hollywood. This is the you know, like in real life, like you'll figure it out or his breath will be weird or something like that. So

we can lower the bar. And then the other is, um, those raising suns to be really mindful of the cultural messages that boys are sent. You know, that they're supposed to be much o, they're supposed to be cool, that they're supposed to have as many girls on there, you know, um, paying attention to them as possible, and to work against that. I was talking to a bunch of college students is about ten years ago, and we were talking about the

various cultural messages that boys are given. And it was a coed room, um, about how they're supposed to be about women. And there were two guys in the class who were like kind of study like you could tell that they maintained you know, very happy weekends, and they were talking about how, um, how much boys tease one another.

If a boy expresses real affection for a girl. You know that if a boy sort of is it makes it clear that he has a crush on a girl that the boys will be like, oh, she's got you whipped or that's not cool. You know that there's a lot of pressure among the guys to not um express feelings of devotion. But then this thing happened, and I

think it was entirely unconscious. One of these like really kind of study like guys had a large water bottle in front of him, like um for for sports, and he leaned across the desk me cuddled it, and he was like, but really everybody just really wants a girlfriend, you know. And he's sort of like affectionately cuddled it. And I was so um. I was so glad that they were willing to be unguarded and sort of dropped

the cool guy thing for a moment. But I think that's the piece we we can work on with boys, is to try to find my room to say like, buddy, you know, like I know you're supposed to play this game of being a player, but it's all right. If

you just really want one person. Don't you feel like the gen z now is becoming better at understanding that that girls are now calling boys out when they're inappropriate, and you even write about it, you know, this about changing the language of hoe and sled and all that, even in jest. And I feel like that boys are starting to be educated in a way where they're realizing it too, and their act actively becoming more comfortable going,

I actually want a girlfriend, and of racking them up. Yeah, no, I hope so. And I actually I wish I could remember the piece of literature. But there was a piece of literature that a high school teacher was looking at with the co ed class and it's the same piece of literature she'd covered it, maybe it's from classical literature for years and years, and she said, for the first time in the last couple of years, the boys are like, this is a little rape, you know, and like it

did never come up. And so that I think is a really good sign. As much as there's always going to be some retrograde stuff, there's always going to be knuckle dragging. If the if the general move is for girls and guys just start to call out stuff that you didn't feel you could call out before even if you didn't like it. That's a good step. Do tell us how, in your opinion, we can parent better by example right now, and how can we help our teams

in this moment. So in parenting better by example, I think it really is that we two are coping and our kids are watching us cope. And and one of my favorite phrases and all the parenting I got off of the inside of a chocolate wrapper, which is don't talk about it, just be about it. So I think, you know, we can say, you know, have you done your mindfulness meditation or have you exercised or you know, like we can say those things, and I think it mostly annoys young people. Or we can say I had

a really rough day. I'm going to go take a walk around the block, which you know, do you want to come with me? You know that that kind of thing. So them watching us deal with our own frustration and sadness right now, And it doesn't mean we always have to be yet beat. I mean we can say today it's really hard, I feel really worn down, and I feel worried. Um, here's what I'm gonna do to try

to get myself through it. You know that that that sort of open modeling of healthy coping, I think is really not You're not keep yeah and or not come down and say it had a really hard day, like where's the booze? You know like that, like don't do that. Um, I mean that's a that's a great thing. I I worry that we get to sceptible to everybody in their

own rooms. You know, I'm doing school, well, I've got a lot of work to do, and we're all just zooming all day parent by example, like you said, like I gotta just turn my computer off and go you know, let's go outside mow the lawn. Not that I ever would, but let's go outside, you know that kind of thing, or to be openly strategic. I UM. I started a podcast as a result of the pandemic too, out of the sense of like I need a way to operate at scale, to plug it right now. I will, I will,

because they're all gonna want to go there now. I UM. I am really worried about family mental health, and so I started a podcast called Ask Lisa the Psychology of Parenting, and I do it with my colleague Green and nine and Who's this incredible journalist. But I was like, I need something that is quick and nimble and can address the parenting needs immediately because they change so fast right now. And for some people who couldn't afford to go see you for forty five minutes twice a week, this is

life saving. It's a gift to be a psychologist right now. Um, And you know in that I get to be useful, which is part of what helps me cope with my own feelings about the pandemic. But I am, um, sort of stupefied by how intense this is. And you know that what I can contribute is only a drop in the bucket. But if I can get a drop in that bucket, I'm going to try to do that. Yeah, it's a it's a dry bucket right now. So thank you, and uh, ask Lisa, Ask Lisa. It's a podcast and

the books are untangled and under pressure. Both of them are on my bedstand. I read chapters of it all the time. Thank you for your time today, and thank you for everything you're doing helping parents get their teens through this time. And thank you and thank you for this podcast, which I know is also a lifeline for so many Thank you for listening to Go ask Ali. My huge thanks again to Dr Lisa Damore who is helping us all parent our teens, particularly girls, during this

difficult time. I gotta send her a muffin basket. She really helped me today. Remember Subscribe to Go ask Ali and follow me on Twitter, Ali Wentworth or Instagram. The Real Ali Wentworth. Go ask Ali is a production of Shonda land Audio and partnership with I heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.