Grow Me the Money w/ Jamila Souffrant

have some sort of relationship to money. And you know, I was thinking before this podcast about my relationship to money. I had a very bizarre relationship with money when I was young, because in my own personal circumstances and my family, you know, one minute, it was like, oh, we're all going to go skiing, and the next minute it was, oh, my god, we have no money. We have money, we don't have money. We have money, we don't have money. So I developed this kind of crazy relationship with money.

I was the girl in college that would write bounce checks, didn't understand how to balance my allowance. I always would hope that somehow I'd figure it out later on, which is incredibly irresponsible. And as I got older, I learned more, but I still don't think I'm educated enough about money. You know, God forbid, something happened to my husband. I'm not sure I would understand all the retirement forms, pension plans.

I think historically, you know, women have always looked to the man to take care of them, and that is not the world we live in anymore. And I realized that, you know, when you're young, you can sort of throw your hands up in the air and say, I don't really understand about money. But when you get to be a certain age, you start to realize you need to save for your later years. So there is a responsibility and there is a maturity that comes with money, but

the first step is learning about it. Here to make sense of all the sense is money coach and go to financial thought leader in this personal finance field. Jamila Suffran Jamil is the founder of Journey to Launch dot com and the host of Journey to Launch podcast, where she chronicles her path to financial independence while helping others

do the same. Jamil is a resident financial expert on a weekly segment on News twelve, which is the most watched local TV news station in New York City, and has been featured in other notable media outlets such as New York Times, Essence, Refinery, twenty nine, Money Magazine, CNBC, CBS Business Insider, and more. Here's what's so incredible, Jamila and her husband saved get this, a hundred and sixty nine thousand dollars in just two years and are living

debt free besides their mortgage. Jamila, I'm so happy to have you on the podcast today because I have so many questions. But first, can you share what inspired you to begin your journey to financial freedom? I mean, it's something we all want in theory, but getting started and putting it into practice is a completely different story. Yeah. So I how did Jamila end up being Jamilla right of journey to launch? So? Really, I was, you know, commuting from New York Brooklyn to New Jersey every day

corporate job. I was in Corporate America, working at the same company that I interned with from nineteen but they were in New Jersey, so it was a commute. But I was okay. I didn't have kids, eyes like young and then I got pregnant with my first son and I remember early thirties. Now I'm in this car. My community is like an hour and a half one way. Oh my god, no, lie like and you know that's

like average. Sometimes it will take less, sometimes more. But on this day, pregnant, first child, it took three hours to get home. So I said to myself that day because I've always had this desire to be free and I wanted to be a millionaire, had all these dreams as like a young kid. And then I got into the workforce and I was like, wait, how am I actually gonna tell this? I guess I just need to

work like everyone else, Jamila, get over yourself. So I eventually then just out of frustration and fear and just typed in like how to equip my job, how to I retire early? All these like catchphrases people do when they're not necessarily happy. Came across this concept called financial independence retire early, and I'm like, what is this thing? Because I'm thinking you have to like be very famous or born into money to become a millionaire, like create

the next Google. And here I am now listening to podcasts, reading blogs about people who are saving you know, their money and investing over time, you know, over ten fifteen years, and are able to quit their jobs. And I was like, wait a second, where was this all my life? And so I essentially started Journey to Launch, which was just a blog to chronicle how I was going to reach financial independence. I had this goal to quit my job, and then it eventually turned into oh, Jamiela, how are

you doing this? You're saving all this money to teach us, And so I was like, oh, I might let me start a podcast. So I started podcast Journey to Launch and started to dive deeper into not only my journey, but helping other people who wanted to do what I was doing. And quit my job a few years later because things were taking off a bit. And you know, here I am now with you. And so, how financially savvy were you when you had that aha moment in the car when you're pregnant. Did you already know a

lot about money? I was not. Definitely did not know as much as I knew now. If I knew as much as I do now, it is started so much earlier. But I will say I did a lot of things right. You know, I come from I'm an immigrant. I was born in Jamaica, the island, not the borough. Nothing's wrong with the borough, by the way, but the island and mom was a single mom, so she knew about saving and surviving as a young single mom in the country she didn't grow up in and had to make it work.

She passed that down to me. So I did have that saving ability. Like I remember, I started working at fourteen and saved my money for the most part. I was able to buy my first condo at twenty two and Dumbo before it was Dumbo. So it's on the outside, yes, amazing thing to do at such a young age. But

I didn't know about investing. I didn't know about making your money grow, because it was more about saving and then like kind of the American dream, which was like buying a property and then you know, getting married, having kids. But this outside world of wait, I don't have the working corporate America like that always was something I was interested in, and it wasn't until I found this concept that you can you know, even at a regular job, you can save and invest and be smart with your money.

You might not be able to quit tomorrow, but if you just do some of the right things in a few years, you'll be in a better position. So yeah, to answer your question, I wasn't as savvy as I am now, But I tell everyone you're on a financial journey, whether you know it or not. And so if you're listening to my voice right now, like now, it's the perfect time to to consciously be aware that you're on it and see what you can do to help yourself get in a better position. And are you in a

better position now? Oh? Yeah? So you know this concept of financial independence, like it's very lofty, okay, Like if you're talking about having enough money saved and invested to not work actively again, like you can literally live off your portfolio, right, goals, I am not there. I am like at this level. I have like journey or stages that I call it, like reaching the promised land of financial independence. I'm at a level where I have work flexibility.

I was able to save up enough money to quit my job even though journey to launch wasn't making as much at all as what my job is making, and then also pay off the debt we needed to pay off, and then like launch into entrepreneurship with three kids living in New York City and be okay, and the freedom and flexibility that I have, Like right before we recorded this, I went to go pick up my right and it's not that I have all the money in the world,

but I have enough where we're comfortable. And that is, to me, something that most people can find, and it's essential to find it as a woman, especially as a mom and as a person of color, and as that black woman. You bet on yourself, oh yeah, and people don't like to better themselves like they're too afraid. So I love a woman that bets on herself. I really do, so, thank you, Jamila. I'm going to confess right right up

top that I'm terrible with money. I tendency to be afraid of it, to not want to deal with it. When I was younger, I would get into financial trouble and pray that my parents would help me out. Many many times I would not balance my checkbook. And now I am in my marriage, I let my husband, George deal with most of it, which I'm sure these are all terrible things, but we'll get through this. It's not

about me. But I do want to start with talking about women in their relationship with money, because now that I'm a middle aged woman, I have noticed particularly I have friends who are incredibly on top of their finances, and I have friends who don't know what the hell they're doing, and I have friends who have gotten divorced and been left with zero money. So my first question is why do women have so many issues with money?

I think what happens. You know, we all have money scripts, money stories that are passed down to us, that are told to us, and it depends on our culture, where we were raised, who we were raised by, in their own financial trauma, what theyve us down to us. So for a long time, women really we're not accepted, we're

not invited into the financial conversations. I believe it's changing a lot more, but I also have a distorted view because I'm in the personal finance space, so I tend to then see a lot of people talking about money. But for the average person, I do think there's still a misconception about what it takes to be good with money, right, Like you think you have to be good at math, and you know, to have all these other things that are helpful but that really don't allow you to succeed.

And a lot of things that women innately have show that we actually are better than handling money than men in terms of we're more prudent, we take our time because we're investing for the long term, and we're thinking about more things other than just ourselves, like our family, that we actually aren't good with money, like inherently, and it doesn't need to do anything with statistics or math

or complications. So I think it's really just breaking down this barrier of what people used to tell us, you know, the the old white men financial advisors who spoke in jargon our terms that we didn't understand to kind of keep us out is long gone, and we just need to continue to push that so women and the women behind us can understand it. This is for you too.

You are here, you can be good with money. You are good with money, I mean because historically women were not allowed to deal with money, and certainly when they got married they had no financial freedom whatsoever. Marriage was part of a kind of economic pact just to get the money from her family. So I can see why

the roots of that are strong still. It is. I mean, if you think about the women who were at home also raising the children who were the responsibility, while they most likely never got paid for that work was such a huge part and why their husbands were successful in their careers right. And so while we have been sometimes

blocked out of that conversation. You know, the history has been there was at some point I forgot the year where women still needed like the man's signature to get a credit card, like their husband's signature to get a credit card. So it's crazy, but yeah, that stuff is rooted in us, and I think though that now is the time for us to take back control and to take back the power and educate ourselves to be better.

But because women earn what of what men earned? Don't you think until we are equal in terms of equal pay, we will never be seen as equal in terms of how we deal with finances. Yeah, there's a lot of work on all fronts, so the earning side of things, the managing side of it, and the earning side of it.

But what's most impactful earning money? So if we're not making as much, if we have more things that happen in our lives that make us take pauses at work, that you know, when you're stopping to have family, when we have to take off more time to do more of the at home care for our loved ones and elderly like that all factors into our careers and how much we earn. So I definitely believe that the income

gap between women. And then if you even break it down further within the women's face, like women of color, black women, like all that is going to be import We can't have like the conversation about money and managing it without having the conversation about being equal pay and earning as much advocating or better salaries completely. Now, what

do you tell women? Let's pretend I said to you right now, Hey, surprise, Jamila, this is a TED talk and there's a thousand people out in the audience, give us the most important steps women need to know about their finances. So the most important steps that women should know about their money is there is a practical and how to. There's the budgeting, and there's understanding the income that's coming in and the expenses that are going out.

That's important. We have to talk about that, But I think most importantly it's the internal kind of shadow work that needs to be done first to help propel and maintain this journey that we're on with our money. Because it's not enough to like just do a budget like right. You have to have the confidence that you'll figure it out when things get a little like sticky, or when you make a mistake quote unquote. So I think a lot of the work is actually mental and emotional, and

that to start there is important. So to have the confidence and to understand it. Confidence doesn't mean you won't mess up. Listen, I I talk about money all the time, and I still like, oh, man, like I need to go check that budget, or I was spent on this thing, like it still happens. It's normal. So really it's about internal work first about what are the money stories that we've been told. How do we sabotage our own selves with money? Start with that first, and then yes, let's

move on to the practical. Let's create a budget, because you really do need to understand what's coming in and what's going out in order to take control. And how much do you tell women and people, but women especially about saving for the future. Do you talk to them about retirement? Because I'm middle aged, like I said, and I'm very concerned about my back nine, but I'm concerned about even now with aging parents that I'm dealing with. I go, Okay, so, damn, this is expensive. It's really

expensive to be old in our country. So how do I protect myself so that my two teenage daughters don't leave me on the side of a road with a note tape to me, you know what I mean. There's so much more than the just imminent stuff. When it comes to finances, you have to think long term, and that is I believe, like the balance that people just don't want to deal with because there's a now of

the life. You want to live a good life now, you want to reap the benefits of your hard work, and you know, I want to feel like you're working towards something but enjoying it now. And then there is that long term view about okay, what about the U and twenty years, in thirty years or even ten years, making sure that person is okay. And oftentimes sometimes we sacrifice one for the other. Usually it is that older

person that we're like, we'll just figure it out. Then, you know, bury our heads in the stand about it. But so I am a full advocate of investing for the long term, just to make sure that you're okay with my brand and what I do. Like, I talk a lot about financial independence, retire early, which is the fire movement, save an investor for time and actually leave the traditional workforce early, which for some people are just

like are you kidding me. I'm not on the track for standard retirement and you're telling me I can like exit early. But I'd like to put that in the minds of people as uh, like a seed, because there are some people that are doing it, and of course it takes like work in different just assets to be

able to do that. But I like pushing people to understand that there is a way to save and invest long term and set yourself up for a good future and good retirement, and also push it a little bit, like whatever you're doing now if you think you're starting too late or you think it's like so late that you shouldn't even like look at it, because what's the point is that you can start today and be in a better place ten years from now just by starting.

And so I say, even if you're behind on retirement, you'd be surprised at what you can do once you're aware of what's possible for you. We're gonna take a short break and we'll be right back. Welcome back with more go ask Galley. I do want to talk about couples because most of my peeps are married, including myself, and I want to talk about finances in relationships because I think they can be incredibly eruptive, and I think

people don't talk about finances enough in their relationship. Let's say, before you're dating somebody, how can you tell if you're economically compatible? Like you know when you're sexually compatible, and you know in other areas where you're compatible, how do you know if you're economically compatible? Yeah, you know, this is something where you have to start the conversations that you don't just jump in the first date and say, what's your credit score? How much death do you have?

You know? But I do believe that's over time you ask them what are your goals? What are you looking forward to doing over the next couple of years. I think starting with the big picture questions and then drilling it down to if the person says, oh, my dream car, I want to buy it in a couple of years, and from what you know of their profession, you're like, that's interesting, Like you know, you're just trying to connect the dots on things. So I think a lot of

things is open discussion. And also if you are at that point where you can share openly about your finances with the potential partner, meaning Okay, I'm gonna put it out on the line. To be vulnerable here and the hopes that this person will also be vulnerable is helpful because we all have money stories and money baggage and dead or something related to money in our lives, like

that is how we live. So I don't think it's out of touch to start the conversations early, but in a general way, because I will say that picking someone who is complimentary you don't need to be the same with money. Some people are more hands on, some people more hands off, but at least they are amenable and willing to have conversations. That's important. But picking someone who is either on the same page at least in the

same book. Maybe you're not on the same things, but you're reading the same book at least on different chapters fine is important because when you're able to combine your energy, your money, your goals together, it can speed up the journey to your money goals. So it's important, right. You know, they say two thirds of marriages start out in debt, and I know that when I was dating my now husband, we came to our marriage, he had been working much longer than I had and was, you know, very good

with money. I basically came to the marriage and debt. Also with the docks in that needed a ten tho dollar spinal surgery, which I think freaked him out a little bit. But I do see a lot of times in relationships where one person is really conservative one is very kind of spending and crazy, and it causes a

lot of problems. But I've also seen relationships where, let's say, in mine, my husband is more conservative, whereas every once in a while, you know, I don't go crazy, but I will say, you know, I think this is important. I think we can spend a little more on this trip as an educational thing for our kids, or you know, we can get this sofa, but it's gonna break in two seconds. I think we should spend a little more

for you know, that kind of constant thing. But what I'm saying is I'm agreeing with you that in the big picture, that is the same the little minutias we kind of give and take, give and take. Yeah, I think the most important thing, even if you have different use on money and how you handle it, is the willingness to listen to your partner and to concede when you know it's necessary. On the sofa or on that thing because in the same regardless of having someone who

is more conservative is really good. But sometimes it's not so good because some people actually have money and are so afraid of spending it and using it as a tool to live a life that they want. And if you have a partner who's not on that same page, you can cause resentment. So I fully believe that it's okay to have different like likes, Like my husband is not like I know he would prefer a nicer car.

And so the deal kind that I made when I like puit my full time job to do what I'm doing now journey to launch full time, was like, thank you for supporting my dreams and goals, you know, and I understand that we have to cut back, would be more conservative in certain areas to do that, but if I can, and when I can, he knows like I would love to get him like a nice car, like one of those Christmas commercials. It would like a boa.

I think that would be so fun and like for him, like I don't really care right now about that kind of stuff, but I know he likes it and cares about it. So I think when you can show up for your partner in that way, and it's like a given take. It's compromising in a good way about what each other likes and goals and all that. What have you seen And I'm bringing this back a little bit to the women and money. I have noticed that women who are the breadwinners there is a fundamental issue in

their relationship. I don't know if it's ego with the man, I don't know what it is, but my friends who are the breadwinners and the husbands aren't. I mean, they might be still doing a lot in terms of childcare and everything, they still bangheads all the time. And I hate to think it's this kind of misogynistic thing, but it is. It just is, you know, I agree. I think it's hard for women, and think about it is a lot of women do actually earn more than there's processes.

I don't have a number, you know, to back that up, but you know, a lot of my friends earn more than their partner. And so I think this is something where understanding the type of partner you have is important. And sometimes like with this financial work like comes like just general therapy, because the foundational work or the fights that you have about money usually are deeper or something else it's like maybe he or she feels a loss of control because they never had control they saw their

own parents go through something. Sometimes it is like a cultural or societal thing, but sometimes it's actually a personal experience that your partner may have that's feeding into why they're reacting that way. And so actually talking to a therapist or talking through the deeper issues instead of like just getting mad at them for the reaction, just understanding where it's coming from, I think can be helpful. I

think that's so interesting. I think people don't really connect money and therapy as much as they do other things. It's like sex or fundamentally not getting along. But when you think about it, money is so attached to so many emotional things. I think about so many people who attach it to love, you know what I mean. So if my partner or my friend gives me these things, they love me because I'm being rewarded materialistically or with money.

And I think it's true. I think everybody comes to the table with their own financial trauma or stories, and that's when it gets really difficult. I wish couples therapy they had to have it a financial advisor sitting with them.

I think would be really helpful. And this is why I feel it's so with money, so many people avoid the topic, and like literally everyone has to deal just like everyone has to go to the bathroom, Like everyone has to deal with money, and typically like people don't talk about it's like this quiet thing that everyone wants to avoid. But then everyone is wants to live this life and doesn't matter what how you define that life, whether it's more luxurious and more low key, but you

need money for it. And so I just think we should be talking more about money, like it should be normalized in the way we approach it and in our in our hangups and our mistakes, in our insecurities around it, because so many people feel the same way they do. I mean, I know that I don't really talk about money that much because I was taught it was rude and crafts, so you didn't talk about money, whether you had it or not, it was just keep it to yourself.

But I'm finding more and more that is the problem. And when I think about partners fighting about money, you know, it's control, it's debt, it's resentment over somebody spending too much on something. So let's say they go into therapy and they get that all worked out. When should either a couple or an individual when should they seek a financial advisor? At what point do you go I need help?

And how do you pick somebody? I think the financial advisor conversation is important to at least understand and have, so I think approaches from two different ways because I come from like a personal finance community that it's very d I y like they will try to figure it out first on their own, and some people like that challenge. It's not that many assets, it's not that complicated, so they feel like they can manage it themselves, which is fine. But I do feel like for some people they may

need a coach. So I think they're like different things. There's a financial advisor who can invest on your behalf that has a producer of responsibility and has taken the proper courses to advise you in a way that is

helpful with your investments and your long term strategy. Sometimes those advisors also, like our coaches or have may have the training also to help you emotionally with money, but most times not, and so you might need someone else like a money coach, or just follow programs or podcasts

like that talk more about it. But I think financial advisors to a certain point, if you're earning a certain amount of money and having it slip away from you, meaning like you know you're earning x amount, but then like at the end of the day you have nothing to show for it or there's nothing invested, that it's probably time to get help because you're not in the

position to help yourself. So looking for an advisor who has their CFP or that they have a reducer responsibility to make the best recommendations for you, not for them to earn the money on things is important. I always say asking or starting with your friends, because you may be surprised to your friends are working with someone who they find reputable. You know, you check to make sure

that they have all their credentials. But some people are comfortable on their own and just investing like an index funds, which is just like on autopilot. But some people, depending on their lifestyle and their assets, need additional help, me professional help. So I think it just depends. I want to ask you about what you think about a pre nup. You four against whether the whether there's money or not.

I am for a prenup, but you know I kind of feel like, um, a hypocrite because I don't have a prenup, so a while I'm for a prenup, I don't have one with my husband, so you know there's that. But I do believe that it is important to have the conversation with your partner about it because you want to be here. While we don't ever want or think things should end or want to end that you just

have insurance against that. There's nothing icky that happens after it, Like everyone knows what they came in with or what they're going to leave with in advance. So I would recommend it for the most part. But why why don't you have it? Do you think it's because you're not betting on your marriage? Like is there an emotional reason you don't have a prenupper? Yeah, I would say again, like I don't want to sound like one of those like naive women that was like, oh, my husband will

never do that. You know, Like I am thirty eight, so I know I look much younger, but I'm thirty eight, right, baby, you're a baby on the screen. Right. But my husband and I've been together since we were nineteen, and like we we literally had nothing together like we're in college, broke and there's some things I have a quiet on my own, but based on our history and like the way we are right now, like you know, I have

a pretty good sense and feeling about it. But again, I know sometimes that's like yeah, Unicorn, like sure you do know, I'm sure you do. Yeah, sure you do? Right, Like I'm building this like I'm trying to build this billion dollar empire, and it's like, yeah, you think you know him, but you know what really, Like, I feel like I'm not opposed to revisiting the conversation if need be, Like let's just say something big word to happen. And I would hate to be like that because how ichy

would that be? Like you're married, Like if it was the other way around and the man was coming into something and he's like trying to renegotiate with the wife. But I do feel like based on our communication, I could go to him and say we should maybe talk about this and it would be at least a conversation. Yeah, but that is that is the stigma with pre nups, right, People immediately go, oh, that just means you don't believe in our marriage or you don't love me. Or you

know you're betting on us failing. That's what people think, right, Yeah, if I were like now, like meeting someone with what I have, and I would definitely get a prenup, But I don't know it's something about dan with someone since you had nothing that you're just like, listen, but but would you advise people to have pre nup? Let's say there we're starting out with nothing or is it only for people? I would actually say, yeah, you should still

even without anything. That's like saying people who don't have a lot of assets with should they get in the state plan? And it's just like there is something to leave behind, right like even if not because you don't know what you'll acquire, what you'll do within that time frame of being together, and whether that is because it's due to your own business and what you're working on.

And sometimes it's to protect your partner, like where what if you know one of you is not in the corporate space or staying at home more, you know you want your partner to be protected in that case where they weren't able to go out and earn a salary as much as you did, and so often times that they gets how you frame the conversation. And yeah, I think it's an interesting thing because so many people when it comes to love and money and when it comes to like taking to the next level, like having a

document about it, it can get a little a little dicey. Yeah, triggering, Yeah, definitely. But then on the flip side, I've known women that said, oh, I'll let my partner deal with everything, and then they got divorced and suddenly she had zero nothing. He took it, he embezzled it, he did whatever he did with it, and she has nothing. That to me is a cautionary tale. Oh yeah, I think at least you know, you should have access to the account, You should know how to

log into them, you should know where they are. You should be just as aware at the tax planning meeting at least if you're not in the everyday discussion, like you should have access to everything. I think that is like a tragic Those are the tragic scenarios, especially when like the woman was not able to work because she was raising children and because she was supporting like the amount of money that she should have been paid that allowed you know, the spouse and I don't need to

make it just a man and woman thing. But even if it was vice versa, it's not fair, right, And so I think it's really important to have these conversations. Take a deep look and talk to your partner. If you're feeling shut out or you know, not included, that you at least speak up for yourself and have a voice. It's important, you know. For me, I don't have that fear. You know. It's like my husband came home and said

I was having an affair and start laughing. But what I have a fear of is God forbid something happened to him. Because he's been the primary financial person in the family. So if he got hit by a bus, it's not like I wouldn't know where the money is. I wouldn't understand it. I'd say, Okay, we have this investment to put away for our kids college, we have this, we have you know, it would be incredibly confusing to me,

and that's what scares me. And that's another reason I really wanted you on my podcast, because I have to get educated. Well, would you have that conversation with him? Does he work with an advisor? Does he have meetings with someone helping him with the money? He pretty much does it himself, but he yes, there is somebody that we do talk to. But again I always think, I'll take care of this, and he takes care of that.

I'll make the chicken parmjan and he'll go talk to the advisor about you know, our four oh one kid. But you know, because already you're saying like it scares you.

It seems like it is something that I don't know if you brought it to his attention before, have said like, hey, bring me in on this, like let's just have a meeting on where things are and what things are doing and tell him your fear, like I wouldn't want and I doubt that he would want you to feel so lost and confused as something where God forbids happened to him. So almost just like, you know, here's where I'm at, what I'm feeling. Can we just sit down and it's

this little process. It doesn't have to happen in one day, right, Let's set a time, Let's make it fun. Get some wine whatever you guys like to drink or not drink, and sit down and get in the bath. Let's go literally like it doesn't some people, I think what happens to people think like Okay, there's this big hill or big mountain, and you're expected to like climate in one day. It's like, no, no, no, we can take our time, you know, and hopefully nothing happens with him that time.

But let's start slow. So the first thing is just a conversation about how you're feeling about it. The second thing is like, let's just make a meeting. Maybe you sit down and show me where things are, like how you log into things, and maybe we create like a legacy binder they call it, or some type of file that says where all the log and accounts whereas every things. That way, I can log in on my own and see what's happening, or at least nowhere to go if

I needed to get the information. Oh god, I love that a legacy binder. I love that. I really love that. I also like the idea of everything being in one place too, because I feel like you end up having a file cabinet of like bits and pieces and this and that, and that also makes me completely overwhelmed by everything. So and now let's talk about teaching our children about money. So you know, we talked earlier about people understanding their finances,

people talking about their finances. But now we have other generations coming up where we can change the conversation. As a mother, I go, how am I going to teach my kids about money? To understand it, to be responsible with it? Does it start with allowances? I mean, what's your advice? Yeah, okay, So I mean my kids are pretty young. There are six, four and two, but I don't too Yeah, they're at those ages. I can't even believe you have time for a podcast. My god, I

mean either, I just every day. It's just like we're just figuring out as we go. I recently started to do allowances with them. I put like safe and spend like they each have like a little envelope and it's not much money because there's three of them. So they get like, you know, a dollar each each week for each category, so two dollars altogether. And I think it's important because for like me, growing up, I physically touched money a lot more as a child. Now we live

in a d stage of invisible money. Everything is invisible. You click a button and it comes to you. It's stopped at the door. So can you imagine kids growing up seeing this? It's just like, what is money? What is a dollar, Like sometimes you don't even see that it's invisible. So I think getting kids back to understanding the real value of what a dollar can buy is important, you know. I also try to be aware of the language that I use because a lot of us have

grown up. If you grew up without much, someone telling you there's not enough money, this kind of like scarcity mindset, and for a reason, because there wasn't enough money to pay the bills of out money, and so I try to avoid like the things like, well, we don't have

the money or we're broke. I don't like saying that to them because I don't want them to grow up with a complex about money and hoarding or feeling like they don't have enough versus Okay, that's not a priority right now, right, Like, so they want ice cream every day from when I picked them up from school, and I like, I'm not spending four dollars because you know, the ice cream man is charging four dollars for a cone now right, I'm just like, we're not doing that

every day, So we can decide once a week and you can save up for it with your you know, your spend money, and we can do that. So just teach them and give them the money to pay the guy so that they understand like what that transaction is. And so I think you can start at early at this age, the age I think, you know, six and

four to start talking about money. And then for older kids for sure, because so many of us, like college was the first time we were on our own with money and got in a lot of trouble because of that. And so I think with teenagers, especially before they go off to college, that conversation around money like needs to happen. Also, it's what you said before, but there's no paper. It's I get into arguments with my youngest daughter because she

doesn't understand. You know, when she goes on Amazon, you just click a button. It's as if it's free. You know, you click this, or you have Venmo or Apple Pay, and there's no concept of what's behind it. And I'm concerned about it. I'm concerned about it for my kids, for your kids, for everyone's kids. That they have no concept of savings and even depositing, like all the money comes out, they didn't know the money actually should go back in. I mean, all the things we're talking about.

So I feel like if you have older kids, and you didn't get a chance to really teach them at a younger age. And let's like layer on personality. Some kids just no matter what you do, like, their personalities are just they're just gonna do what they want anyway. But I think it's never too late to say, like, Okay, here is actually like a hundred dollars or whatever is the budget you can give them for that week or month.

Have this last ye so if you do want to buy something from Amazon, I'm taking that money from the hundred, like so they can see like, this is not infinite. It's not just infinite money. Yes, we want to live an abundance and money comes to us, yes, but right now it's not. And this is a hundred dollars and this is what chance has spent. Can you do that and kind of make it a challenge almost? And haven we see what that's like? Now a quick word from

our sponsors, welcome back to go ask Gali. Let's get back to the discussion. I want to talk a little bit about money triggers because I think that plays a part in again in relationships and how we deal with money. Probably, like you said, with kids personalities, you know, the panic, fear, tension, stress that goes around money. How do you when you talking to people about it, how do you besides saying you know, you should talk about it in therapy, but

how do you reassure everybody? How do you kind of calm people down and say, Okay, look this is your money dot dot dot? How do you fill that in? Yeah? You know, I don't think there's like one thing right or like one solution that can help people feel secure. But what I will say is exposure and awareness is everything, meaning realizing and understanding that there are resources out there to learn. Have you found that people are in terms

of health and COVID nineteen? Are people really nervous? Now? Do you think that people are very conservative when it comes to anything to do with their finances because the world has been so mercurial? Yes, of course absolutely. You know, for some people the pandemic has obliterated any savings they've had, Like things that they thought were stable jobs were not. And in some instances people have made more money during the pandemic or were able to save more money if

they were lucky enough to be home. So I think there are different narratives and different stories that people are living. But for the most part, I do believe that this whole experience, I believe has allowed most people to reevaluate what they want, um, you know, the type of work life balance they want, what they do want to spend

the rest of their lives doing. You know, life is so precious, We know that, but like seeing as many people lose their lives this year, last year, really and then continuing is just like a calling card that we need to figure out what we're doing in life and how can money be a tool that we can use now because life is not guaranteed and promised, but then also set ourselves up so that we're not you know,

on the streets. And so I think a lot of people are having struggles with how to balance that, and it's important to talk about it because a lot of people are feeling this way. Yeah, I mean, so many deaths and so many livelihood deaths. I mean I have friends that have been completely wiped out in the restaurant industry and everything, and I just go, oh my god, I almost want to take my money and put it under my mattress. Yeah, I mean, I do it all

makes me so nervous. That fleeting idea of life and that fleeting idea of like your whole livelihood could be taken away so quickly. How do you feel about philanthropy? How do you feel about giving a certain percentage of salary to helping other people, helping causes? So, I think it's very important. I also think that, especially as women, we are expected to, you know, if you're a naturally a giver, like you know, innately, they say that's what

women are, right, that's fine. Then some people are just naturally you know, they tie them like that's what they want to do. But sometimes I feel like it's pushed upon us, like we can't just go after the money

and make sure that we are secure first. So I would advise and want everyone to give to the causes and the people that need it, Like I think that's important, but don't sacrifice your own well being first, Like at least make sure you're a float first, because if you're not a float and you're already sinking and you're trying to like help someone else, and you both drown and sink.

And so I do think it's important to give back, but make sure you are in a solid position to do so, and don't use the guilt that society kind of sometimes puts on us that we should be, you know, more giving and nurturing just because we're women. I think when we're in the position to give fully and without sacrificing our own well being, then that is a powerful place. And so yeah, I think it's important to just make

sure you're okay first. Okay, that's actually a great lesson because before I got married, I actually got into financial trouble because I was such a bleeding heart that I was like, oh my god, I'm gonna write a check for this and for that, and I'll pay my friend's rent, and I you know, to the point where I was not in a good place. Okay, I want to end with two questions. The first question is what is the

worst thing about money? The worst thing about money, it's this idea that only certain people should have it, and that is scarce, and I believe it's it's out there. I think it's more abundant than we know. But I don't want to like think of it in terms of two woo woo, where it like people can't relate to that. It's more of it's not as unattainable. Yeah, it's not as unattainable as you'd like to think. And so I think more people should have more access than money. I

think there should be some baseline income. There should be some just things that we have as a humans on this planet in America, like our healthcare and writes for moms like that should like it shouldn't be as hard and limited to people like essential workers, people who teachers like that stuff. It should come freely to these people. I agree. We wouldn't be so polarized right now if

that were the case. What's the best thing about money is the best thing about money is that if you see it as a tool, then you realize that you can use it in a way that suits your lifestyle, that suits your wants and needs. It's not the end all and problem solver. I know it sounds. It sounds so when people say that who have money, because it's like, yeah, sure, give me your money. You say money is not everything, or you say money is not gonna fix all my problems,

just give me your money. Then so I get that, And at a certain level, we need money to pay our baseline expenses. But I really want people to do like the work that they think they'll have to do when they have the money. So people say, well, when I get the money, I'll be happy and figure out what I want to do in my life. And I think there's a way to do it at the same time, like do the internal work first, because the money will not solve everything, and will solve a lot, but it

doesn't solve everything. So do that work first internally, right, The attachment to love, the attachment to all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Gosh, we covered a lot of grounds. It's amazing. I'm so happy. Yeah, I love it. This was fun. Jamila, thank you so much for being on go ask Alli. Thank you so much, Ali for having me. You know, one of the things that really occurred to me during this podcast was the famous line from Jerry McGuire a movie I was in with Tom Cruise, which is show

me the money. And I think what we have to do is just show the money. Let's take off all the layers of protection off of money. Money is not love, money is not wealth. Money doesn't mean anything. Let's keep it strictly business. Money is money. Let's not be ashamed to talk about it. Let's make money grow for us, Let's make money flourish for us. And let's learn everything about it because knowledge is everything. And the first thing

on my to do list is a legacy notebook. I want to know where all our money is, where it's going, and where it's coming from. That's the first step in control of your money. The second step is Wow, that sounded smart. I'm gonna go buy myself something. Thank you for listening to Go Ask Ali. Join me next week for my enlightened conversation with world renowned mystic visionary and Yogi Said Guru about spirituality and his new book entitled Karma,

Yogi's Guide to Crafting Your Destiny. You will be incredibly surprised as to what karma really means. Be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a review, and follow me in my undoctored posts on social media. I'm on Twitter at Ali e Wentworth and on Instagram at the Real Ali Wentworth. Go Ask Gali is a production of Shonda land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shonda land Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.