Caring for Our Aging Parents w/ Brandee Evans & Mary Hulme

flying through space. So exactly. Yeah, just aspect were aspects. Welcome to Go ask Alli. I'm Ellie Wentworth And this season I am digging into everything I can get my hands on. I'm just trying to peel back the layers and get dirty. And this episode is about taking care of aging parents and it's something that's very close to my heart because I am dealing with it right now

with both my mother and my father. And it's the craziest thing when you are in this moment in life that I'm in where your children are growing and your parents are growing older and you're kind of sandwiched right in the middle of it. And so for the past few years, my siblings and I have been trying to figure out sometimes kind of blindly, what the right care is for my mother, what medications should for my father be on, Should she go to assistant living, should he

age at home? And it has become all consuming and confusing and anxiety making and painful in so many ways. So this episode, I want to kind of dig into the practical, emotional, and realistic aspects of this time when you were once the kid and now you are the

parent to your parents. Today, we have two guests, actress Brandy Evans is sharing her very personal story of caring for her aging mother and Mary Hume, a gerontology consultant, and she's offering a professional's advice for adult children seeking the best pathway to care for their aging parents. First up, we have got Brandy Evans. Oh my gosh. She's an actor,

a host, a choreographer, and a businesswoman. She's a series regular on the highly acclaimed Stars Network show p Valley, for which she received an n double a CP Image Award nomination for Outstanding Lead Actress. Brandy is the creator and CEO of the hip hop and Heel's fitness platform that focuses on WOO the Empowerment and Encouragement of Women. Brandy is also a dedicated caregiver for her mother, who suffers from multiple scurosis, and has documented her experience on

social media. So, Brandy Evans, let me tell you how I discovered you. I was doing my usual scroll, meaning I should have been making dinner, and I was just like scrolling on everything, and I came upon an article, I believe it was l Yes, Yes, Yes, and I was reading the article and I thought, Wow, this woman is cool. Not only is she cool and accomplished, but she has been taking care of her mother, which really really resonated with me because I have now two aging

parents and it's a full time job. And I noticed a lot of people in my life at this point are dealing with aging parents. I have another friend and both her parents came to live with her in Manhattan in two hospital beds in her living room, And so I thought, I really want to talk to Brandy about the relationship with her mother, How it got to be that you were the caretaker, and how do you balance all of it. Obviously there was a switch when you kind of became the parent and she became the child.

So what happened? You know what, My mom was always active. So first of all, let's just start with I never thought I'd be in this position, but I, as she had a fall, used to dance for artists. So I was on on tour with an artist by the name of Lettucey, and my brother called and he was like, you know, mama fell, And I was like, what's going on.

He's like, she gotta go to rehab and so, you know, we're just thinking just a broken leg or something, you know, hurt for a little while, I had no idea would take her out. So once she got into the rehabilitation center, she lost the ability to be able to walk. And she was already a little shaky with the walking because she has multiple sclerosis, and if you know anything about

multiple scross is it can go different ways. You're gonna have pain, or it can just take away your ability with your nervous system to be able to walk and do just you know, things that we sometimes think as just normal everyday activities. Yeah we take for granted, yes, yes, And so she fell and that that lasted about two years. And I remember being a little girl and promising her that I would never put her in a nurse at home.

Grandma used to work in one and we would go and visit, and I was like, Mama, I'll never do that. But on her birthday she ends up in a nursing home. I was I felt like the worst child ever. So I had to figure that out. You know, how can I get her out of it? How old was she at this point? Mama was gosh, how old was she been? That might have been sixty three. Yes, she'll be sixty nine this year. I love that you call her mama.

I love that. Um So when she felt I was just like, I gotta get her out of there because the care in the nursing home, it's just not what I wanted. And I'm not knocking anyone that has to do it, because, as you know, we got to do the best we can, and sometimes people just aren't able to bring them out of those homes. Sometimes it's just not possible with the life that they lived. But I just knew that that's what my mom truly never wanted, and I had to figure out a way. So I did.

I taught dance classes, I was doing Gold Fund Mese with friends. I was even telling people, don't buy me anything. For Christmas, you know, donate to help me get my mom at the nursing home fund and then I brought her December twenty one to l A with no job and only the money that I have in gold fund Me. And I'm still just like, how did I do it? I know it's God and friends and the great community of people that and strangers that that helped us. But

who It's been a journey physically and mentally. What an amazing daughter you are, I mean, really that is. I mean, you don't come across many people that sacrifice their time and their money and everything to take care of a parent. I mean, one thing I've noticed with my own mother, who was very isolated up in Maine, is that even the nursing homes near her, they're really expensive. It's very expensive to get care and especially to age in this country. I really don't know how most people do it. I

don't know. And you know what, we never know until we get in it, because I've heard that and just I remember just growing up here and people talk about how medical benefits aren't what we need. And you know, it didn't bother me because I didn't have to deal with it at the time. And then when you have to deal with it, Oh my goodness to find out that California, who I would not have thought, gives so much help to the elderly and disabled, but yet my

hometown of Memphis, Tennessee barely anything. Atlanta, Georgia when I brought Mom here, not one dime of trying to help our elderly. And I'm like, wait, I'm from the South, That's what we do, right, And you know, you would think, like in l A people are just living the Hollywood lives, but no, they have so many things. But that took a lot of research um to find out, and a lot of people don't share it. So I'm so glad

you're doing this. Thank you for talking about it, because it's so many people that need to know, like you know, to really do the research about the extra things that happened for the elderly and disabled in your local city, because there were so many things that I didn't know. And yes, I have the valley now, but I did not have it for four or five years with Mama, so the money just started coming, so we did not

have it. So there are so many resources that the government doesn't want us to know about because they don't want to really give that money out. But there are so many resources and all you have to do is ask a so should work at a hospital. And I wish I would have known that sooner and it could help so many people. That's excellent. Then I also even found the insurance stuff gets crazy too. They don't really cover a lot of the things you think they're going

to cover. And then even even getting a nurse, Like I just wanted a nurse with my mother in case she fell, and I'm like, I don't make this much an hour? What how right these and if you want a good nurse, let's because I went into that like, oh, I don't have the money, so you get what you pay for. I will tell you that that's true. So then you have to figure out, Okay, I need to find the right amount of money to get the right type of nurse. Because that the amount of nurses I

think I can count. I've probably lost count actually with just trying people loud, and you know, from thirteen dollars an hour, y'all know they're not gonna do anything for you. You're not going to get a good nurse until you get up into the twenties. An hour an hour up, and that's what I was thinking, like who gets paid that? Like wow? But also you have to be concerned about if you're paying thirteen an hour for a nurse or caregiver, you know they're also I've heard all these stories that

they get money out of their bank account. You know, if your parents are sort of helpless, and depending on how you know, there are cognitive functions their brain are working. I mean, these poor people get scammed left and right. Um, so it's a scary space. Okay, So let's go back to you. So you're on P Valley, right, you're on this hit show. And so now you've taken a really sharp turn in your life. So now how are you dealing with Mama and this big career. Oh it's been

so hard. I missing so much. Um, it's been a blessing and it's been so difficult. The blessing is that I can afford the right type of care in the home. She now has two caregivers that are twenty four hours, so I have one there for three days, one there

for four days. So Mama has never left alone, which was always the goal because before P Valley, I know it's wrong, y'all, but let's just keep it real and if you're struggling, We've all been there where I've had to audition that left Mama by herself on a live camera because I was like, I just I gotta go to this audition. I feed her, I left her in the bed, I watched her on the camera, I ran an audition and ran back. I don't have to do that anymore, thank god. But those were some of the

things that I had to do. Acting classes. I was rolling her into acting classes if it was too late or she'd had an MS attack that day, where I'm just like, she's too tired. Then i feed her before acting class and I'd have her in my lap while

acting class with the volume off, watching her. And I've chosen acting class that was close enough that I could walk, so I remember one time at lunch noticing that her bib had fell down and it was kind of like covering her face a little, and I literally ran out of acting class. But I was home within five minutes, fixed her, ran back the class. The struggle has been real,

so but it's been a blessing. But it's hard because I missed her and then when I go home, I see the decline, which we always see it when we're there, but it's it's so much harder when you've been gone for a little bit and you come back and see it. So I have that guilty thing sometimes, But I know I'm a good daughter. So I'm like battling the You're being a good daughter. Why aren't you with her? You know now you are? And believe me, if we do that with her mother's we do it with our children.

You know. That's just that's part of life. That's part of being a woman. I think. So, how how is she is Mama? Verbal? Is she? Is she bedbound? Where is she right now? In terms of her medical situation?

She is a bad bound? She's the client quite a bit. Um. It's kind of hard watching, you know, when you go back and you look at where we started from, and I was like, wow, she was really talking to me in s and I know this year or I went home after we got a break for p Valley for Christmas and she didn't talk all Christmas day or the day after Christmas, and I was devastated. I'm like, I've

moved during this new place. I've got these caregivers and I'm just like my mom hasn't spoken to me, So I was just trying to figure out how I could work that out with her to you know, diff and medicines were four twenty friendly in l A. We are UM and I talked to the doctors first before doing this, and the doctors and I quote said, there's nothing that we could prescribe better for her than what you're doing.

And so she doesn't speak much, but UM, I tried literally the third day after being home, and I tried a different edible for her, and I was just like talking, not thinking she would speak back. I was like, how you doing, mom? And she was like I'm good. And I was like like, oh my god. So it was like those moments and I was like how are you And She's like I'm good, how are you? And I'm just like wow. So those moments, I'm just trying to truly live in the moment when she can understand me

and and and says those words. And so she has the CBD with a little THHC in it. So when I tell you I've researched um Snoop Dogg actually supplies her. Oh my god, he actually does that. I need him. I need him for my mom. Yes, he's good. You know, he's amazing and and it totally helps. She's able to talk and with her her salava keep start from talking. That's what I've realized is that she can't necessarily not talk,

but she's holding on to the salava. But when she either smokes medicinal or has an edible, it helps dry her mouth up. So like younger people are people that are doing it for a recreation. I was like, oh, I'm gonna have dry mouth. That's great for mama because now she can talk. That's incredible. I didn't know I was gonna get some helpful tips from Brandy Evans today, but wow, I gotta you gotta hook me up with

Snoop Dogg for my mom um. And so you have siblings too, correct, Yes, I have two brothers, older and a younger. How does it work when because I have siblings too, When you have a parent that needs this kind of help, whether they're aging or they have a disease, how do you divvy up who does what? And don't you find that there's a little bit of competition and or the feeling of like, well, he's not doing enough. You know, I'm doing everything. Why isn't he you have

problems with that? Listen, if we're gonna be honest, let's just go there. In the beginning, yes, I was very angry in the beginning, and then with growth and time and just communication with my brothers. It's not that they didn't want to, they just couldn't you know what I mean like that, and you know, they have the kids. I chose that I didn't have the kids. You know, I'm here and I can help. My younger brother's military,

and my older brother he has his three boys. And at first I was very angry, but now just with communication, they are so supportive. You know, it's just like we know what we're good at, and I know that I'm that person that's always trying to take it on and I was just the one that was meant to take care of Mama. And we're we're all still good. They check on her. They're becoming the l a in June to see her. So we're working it through. But it

is very normal. And I wish someone would have told me that in the beginning, because the first couple of years are very hard, and I would even say things like my others don't care. When that was absolutely not the truth. Yeah, I have found when talking to other people that are dealing with this, a lot of people say one of the sort of side effects is fighting with their siblings because suddenly, you know, you have a parent.

We've always all been the kids the whole time, and then you have a parent, and everybody's saying, well, listen, I can't I'm like my career, or I can't you know, I have young kids, and so there's a little bit of a tussle about, like, well, who's going to take care of mom or dad? And nine times out of ten it's usually the girl's usually the daughter, and you know, because we can do do it all. But also there

was a lot of fighting. There was a lot of you know, feeling unfair and put upon, and people who did communicate, like you said, got through it, but a lot of people, like had shattered relationships with their siblings because of this. So it's I think it's really important when you're dealing with the parent in a situation like this that you communicate very well with the other siblings. Yes,

I know. I remember talking to my little brother and it's hard because you know their feelings are valid too. It felt like you're taking Mama from us, you know. And for me, my mom was like, no, I'm going to take care of her to make things better. But those are her baby's too, And for a minute, I was just like, well, I'm the one and they're like what, we love her too, you know. So communication, don't you find it? Um? It's surreal and there's something about it

that's bittersweet. But when now our mother is older and infirmed and we're the caretakers, you know what I mean? I just I constantly have little flashbacks of snippets of my mom holding my hand, taking me here, and you go wow, and here I am a grown woman and I'm you know, feeding my mom apple sauce, Like wow, yes, how did this happen? I've had act lee that thought. And I remember a smiling one day and I looked at her and it wasn't too long ago, and I go, Mama,

how did I know how to do this? And she just smiled at me and I said, because you taught me. And it's just like remember the things that she did for you. And I was just like wow, how she would teach me to clean it. It's so many things that I would be so angry about because my mom was stripped. Like she would leave a note and be like, this is what you need to have cooked. I would be in the tenth grade and it would be like lasagna, corn bread, Like I'm like, what, I gotta come home

and cook all this. But now it's just like for the holidays. I'm like, well, I know what you want to eat and I know how to cook it because you talked. So yeah, oh God, that's so great, and Mama will be you with you forever, right, yes, yes, that's the thing. She was so sad season two because I brought her with me season one to Atlanta. But that's when I learned they don't have the type of care.

The nurses that I needed just weren't the same. And I was like, I gotta leave you here this time, Mama, And she cried and it broke my heart because I remember she's still in there, because even if she's not talking, she's in there. She knew I was leaving, but I said, Mama, you're staying here, you know. I was like, you're not leaving,

you know, to go to a home. I'm making this home for you, and I'm gonna go work and I'm gonna come back, and I would come back every month, and that's been difficult, but just knowing that I can can do this has has been beautiful to come back and forth with her. But she was very, very very hurt at first, thinking that I was leaving her. And I said, Mama, you're gonna be with me forever. And when I said that, I saw her light up and I was like, I'm just going to work. But we

are here until one of our last breaths. Yea, I have a question for you. I was just gonna ask you, go ahead, yes, I do. So now that I know that you are caring for your aging parents, what do you do? People always ask me what do I do for myself? And you have two girls, so you're so caught up in being mama to everybody? What do you do for yourself? For your peace? Relaxed? I do two things.

One is I in the early morning, I walk my dog, who's a mutt hound Mutt, and I walk him for like four or five miles, and I I just you know, I live in Manhattan, so I go into Central Park and I just look at trees and breathe and think, and sometimes I have to pull out my iPhone to write on the notes. You know, I'll think like, oh, I gotta ask Brandy Evans this or I gotta remember to do this. And so by the time I get home around I'm feeling centered ready, you know, makes me

a better mom, daughter, wife. Um. And the other thing is when stuff gets real crazy, I closed the bathroom door and I go, Mama's in the bath, don't come in here, you know, which is another way of kind of whosh. Um. What do you do for self care? Oh? You know what. I love that first of all, and I'm gonna I'm gonna take you up on that because I think this was what I needed to hear. Because if one more person tells me I need to take a moment in the morning and breathe, so okay, fine,

I'm gonna do it. Um. I love working out, so that is my one moment that I can release it all if it's punching a bag whatever, because I can't bring that energy back in the house, so I have to take that time to get away. I love hiking, like you said, like just taking the moment to breathe. I don't even walk around wal Mart. Sometimes you just got to leave the house. Yeah, I'll tell you one

other dirty little secret. Okay. Sometimes I don't get too very often, but sometimes I go to outlet malls, uh, and I can spend like six hours in an outlet mall just looking for something that's odd sail for nine dollars, but it's adult jingoballo that used to be to that, you know, that kind of thing. It's almost like an Easter egg hunt. And for some reason, I'm so focused on that one thing that I my brain is just kind of relaxing because it's only looking for a bargain.

But there were times when my husband couldn't find me. Are you in an outlet? Yes, I am, But anything that lets our brain kind of calm down because I think we always have so many plates up in the air. So anyway, someday Brandy will work out together then take a bath together. Okay, Brandy Evans, I'm so glad I got to talk to you. It's such an amazing story and more p Valley right, Yes, it is coming. I

can't tell you when. Well. You deserve everything, and give Mama a big kiss from all of us to thank you. And it's time for a short break. When we come back dearontology consultant Mary Hume will share her expertise on how to Navy gator aging parents care, and we're back. My next guest is Mary Hume. Mary is a licensed clinical social worker with specializations and healthcare and gerontology, and

also holds degrees in psychology and social welfare. Mary's a licensed clinical social worker with specializations and healthcare and gerontology, and also holds degrees in psychology and social welfare. She's a founder of Moonstone Geriatrics in San Francisco, which provides geriatric care, consultations, care management, and advocacy. Oh Mary, Hi,

thank you so much for being here. You're very welcome. Now, I just want to sort of give my listeners a little backstory, because the reason I know you, Mary, is that me and my three siblings have been dealing with an aging mother. And the four of us were having all these zooms, and I found that each child had a different idea about how to deal with our mother and where she should be and what she should take. And and finally, my younger sister, Fiona said, I think

we need some help. I don't think any of us know what we're doing or what we're saying, and so you came and had a fantastic conversation with us, and that is why you are sitting in front of me

with some headphones on. So let me start here. When people first approach you, is their first question about do I keep my parents at home or do I put them in assisted living because I can't tell if they're needy of that, or if I should allow them to age at home, because I have found, certainly with my friend's parents that they sort of dig their heels in because they don't want to go anywhere else and they don't want to change what has been their life for decades.

So yes, that that question comes up quite frequently. Um my mom, we think wants to stay at home, but we don't think she should. She's not safe, she's at risk. And then when you throw in more than one adult child, then there are different ideas about whether that that should happen, when that should happen, and how that should happen. And I usually back up a little bit and start by asking the adult child or adult children, have you spoken to your mom or your dad about this? And if so,

what have they said? And oftentimes no, they have not spoken to the parent. Or parents about it at all. They've come up with their own plan about what should happen, when it should happen, and how it should happen. And as long as the older adult who is my client really has capacity, then that conversation about what they want is really really important. And so that's often that's usually where I will begin. Um, start with where they are right now. Okay, don't think too far ahead. We start

with the current situation, and then we break it down. Okay, what do we really need to focus about now? What's important? What do we need to be thinking about? How can we address it? And then the second piece is okay, and what do we need to be thinking about down the road? So things like the power of attorney for finance, that's important. But a lot of times we got crisis going on. We got mom wandered off, she got lost. I have one client now who has escaped out of

her secure dimension. It twice to get cigarettes, you know. So so let's start with the the urgent needs and priorities. And when I consult with these families, you know, we have an hour to an hour and a half. I always start by saying to them what's important for us? To cover right now today during this talk, and then it's like, okay, now we have a sort of a checklist of what to address and what order, and then

we can go from there. And for some of my clients I don't hear from them again, for some I don't hear from them for a year, and for others I'm a PRN as needed, so they circle back around with me as things change, which they will. So when do you know that maybe your parents need help? Is it because they're forgetting about medications, they're they're leaving the oven on? I mean, are there sort of tell tale signs? Yes?

And what are those? Um? I would safety first, so, like you mentioned things like leaving the stove on, any kind of wandering behavior, getting lost, difficulty driving, little tiny fender benders, medication management, not being able to manage the medications. UH. Financial abuse which often is not discovered right away because adult child intend not to be keeping an eye on

the checkbook so much or the accounts. Um My busiest time of years December in January, and that's because these kids have not seen their parents often for about a year, and then with the pandemic it was maybe two years. So December January, after Thanksgiving, Christmas holidays, my phone explodes with kids. When I say kids, I mean adult children

in their fifties usually who are just horrified. They show up to the house and they see, you know, the dishes aren't done, the lawn hasn't been mowed, the male has piled up, and then they start to look around and dig a little bit deeper. And you know, parents are not always very forthright with their children about having difficulties.

And I do have so many conversations with these adult children, and I say to them, you know, I don't want my children telling me what to do, not when they're young, not when they're young adults, and not when I'm eighty and so. So that is a big factor. And then

also many of these adult children are really busy. They have jobs, they have kids, they have teenagers, they live across country, they live out of the country, which some of my clients I'm working with with adult kids who are in Europe and their parents are here in the US. I think it's frightening for adult children to, like you said, see the mail, piling up, dishes, um rodents, you know, all kinds of stuff like that. But also the cognitive decline,

you know. I I've noticed, certainly with some friends. At first they're very startled by the fact that Mom, I just told you where the coffee was, or Mom, we already went to the market, you know, And so that seems to scare people the most, and they go, oh, my god, they've lost their mind. They need to be hospitalized. And it's interesting because I think you're right. I think adult children think that their priority is to make all the decisions and to actually not include the parent in

the decision. And I'm sure you have found that a lot of aging parents resist that just because they've been independent. So tell me how how do you massage the conversation of they probably do need help and an aging parents saying no, I'm fine like that seems to be the hardest bridge to cross to start having these conversations. I think one of the things I do, and I will say, I mean, currently right now I'm helping to physicians, a nurse,

and to social workers with their parents. They have contacted me for help. And that goes back to my earlier point, which is their parents are going to hear or discuss or talk about these kinds of issues and subjects and topics much more openly with someone like me than they are with their own children. In most cases, there are some very our families where they are able to do that. But I'm able to go in as an advocate for the parents to let them know that I'm here to

listen to what they want. I'm a trained mediator, so as needed, I've had adult children, grandchildren, and then my clients. Fifteen people in a room, all trying to communicate about what my adult client wants and needs and just as importantly, what they don't want. That often gets left out of the picture. And so if my client does not want to move out of their house and their firm on that,

and they're not demented, where they really can't. They don't have the capacity, they don't have insight, they can't make sound decisions. But if they do, then let's stop wasting our time about trying to convince mom or dad that they need to move, that this isn't safe. And when we talk about safety, everybody has different standards of what

safety is to them. I have some clients and they have stairs, and yes, they might fall down those stairs, and the children are saying, you can't stay here, you know, you're walking is not good. You had to fall last year, you might trip, so a whole lot of you know, maybe might could. And then you have my clients saying, I don't care if I fall. I want to follow my house and if I die, I want to die in my house. And if that means it's at the bottom of my stairs, then I'm okay with that. And

so that's a different perspective. A lot of healthcare professionals, physicians, nurses, their training is very different, and their training is much more you can't be at home, you're not safe, and that, to me is a very simple answer that really doesn't

address the real picture. And so as a mediator, what happens when the aging parents and the adult children are just not getting any closer to seeing eye to eye, Then often we separate and I will be working with the older adult and then I will be having calls with the adult children to walk them through sort of how to manage their own emotions, how to understand that their wants, their needs, their desires, and their expectations may not happen if they're not in line with their parents.

And I think I think that's one of the most helpful ways that I can assist families. I've noticed, not in my family, but in other families where there's more than one adult child, that the siblings start to have inner fighting, because I mean, the obvious is that you know, one of them thinks they know best, but there's a lot of guilt involved, and there's usually and I'm curious to see if you found this, there's one adult child

that kind of takes on the aging parents themselves. They're the ones that end end up doing most of the traveling or making decisions or have you found that? Oh, definitely, Yeah, definitely, And it's usually a female, either the daughter or the daughter in law. When I have the young men, the

son's calling me, it's usually because they're single. And so what I try to work with is divvying up the responsibilities, because all that does is build resentment, you know, and the one person, whether it is a female or a male or or whoever, um, they may feel like they should do it, they need to do it, they want

to do it, but it becomes too much. It becomes too much as the parent ages, as they get more frail, if they're cognition becomes impaired, and so in those cases it's it's a matter of okay, who can do the finances, who can do the taxes, who can take that piece on, who is physically closest, who can oversee the grocery shopping, the housework, that kind of thing, and then other kids that are further away, okay, well, who can do the bigger things like the house needs a new roof take

on those projects. And so it's really it's a team effort and figuring out who can do what and who is willing to do what, and then looking at logistics and physically you know who's close and who's not. That's very helpful. Also, I know a lot of people are dealing with parents with real cognitive decline, with dementia, with Alzheimer's. My husband has a mother with severe dementia. And do you correct them when they're wrong? You know, when they say, like, oh,

my weddings next week. Do you say, no, it's not it's not you've been married for fifty years. Or do you go, oh, that's great. I mean, this is a question that comes up more and more. No, you say, oh my gosh, what are you gonna wear? I mean, unless someone's mildly impaired, where they still have because with most dementias, the first thing to go insight and judgment. But early on people do know they have an impairment. They do know. Most people if they want to know

that their memory is not working well. But we know this disease will progress. And that's a lot of the education I do with families and loved ones. A lot is about and it's really difficult, especially for logical people, because demension is not a logical disease and moves up, down, backwards, forward. So anytime you think you sort of have a handle on it, I promise you, it's gonna flip on you

and something new will come up. And so my little mantra I say to to the families and loved ones is if my client says that the grass is blue and the sky is grain, I say, and isn't that a beautiful shade of grain? And so you really have to flip the way you think because you are in their demented mind and their impaired brain. You're not going to talk about of it. I would assume it confuses them even more to try to correct them. It's not helpful.

It confuses them, It makes them feel defensive. If they're not super impaired. UM, they're looking at your visual cues. And so when you are denying their reality, when you're basically telling them what they're saying or what they're thinking is wrong, there's nothing that's helpful about that. And so it's really you need to move out of your own concrete, logical world and you need to move into their world. And it takes practice, it really does. We'll be right

back and we're back. How do you handle elderly people that become belligerent, Well, you mean people with dementia, People with dementia who's start lashing out, who start hitting, particularly if they want to age at home. Right, I think the first thing I do with with my clients before even thinking about medication, and there's no perfect medication. Actually, UM is really looking at environmental factors. And so it's

we call this the ABC. I have my clients keep a log of behaviors sort of the anti seat and like, okay, what was the behavior, but what happened before? And not just like what happened, but what time of day was it, what were the circumstances, and then what did you do about it? How did you respond? And because with different

adult children are different people involved. They're all going to have very different experiences to what happens, and so for me, it's really important to catalog and keep track, not forever, but maybe for a few weeks. Um, not just the bad times or the bad instances, but also the good ones, so that family members can keep track of what was going on in the environment, any triers that we might recognize,

how that person responded. Maybe somebody put music on and it worked, maybe somebody put music on and it didn't work. And then to do a comparison, because not only do we want to look at the time of day, the environment and what was going on, but we also want to do look at how different loved ones, family members, people involved in the care responded to see Okay, that was helpful. I gave her a bowl of ice cream

that seemed to work, what did not work? And then you have four or five different people all tracking and we can start to figure out a lot more information about how to manage the situation and decrease the agitation. And then there's also working on the physical approach with people with dementia. I mean just little things. UM. I

go to a lot of nursing homes. I got to go to a lot of assisted livings and I don't know if you've ever had someone try to put a spoon in your mouth where they're kind of coming at you. Even without dementia, you're not going to like that. And so I also work with the families on approaches to just hygien and eating, on how to use a spoon or a toothbrush, and how you come from behind and you put it in their hand and you let them do it. You don't try to stick something in your

mouth or you're gonna get smacked. Um. I'm a strong believer in trying to maintain the dignity of everybody of my clients and respecting their wishes. And I think adult children sometimes get so caught up sort of the forest for the trees and the little details that that gets lost. The safety thing comes up so much and putting safety over everything else. And guess what, most of my eighty five year olds, they don't really care about safety. They

want their bowl of ice cream after dinner. They want their half glass of wine once in a while. They want to be able to walk outside even if it's raining. Those are the things that are important to them. At this time in their life. And again, yes, your parents might fall down and die. Well, they're going to die.

We're all going to die. And so a lot of what I try to do, and because of what I see is the kids becoming so focused on little details, little things and obsessing about it, that the bigger picture, the maintaining that sense of dignity and self gets lost. You mean, they get focused on the stairs, the stairs, the stairs, the stairs. Yes, or my mom she you know, she's not putting her clothes on right away. You know,

there's little stains on them, little things like that. And that's an easy mistake to make because in most cases they're really just trying to be helpful. They're really just really trying to do the right thing. What about socialization? And I'll speak from my own experience. You know, my mother was very isolated up in Maine, and she was getting very depressed and very anxious. She's now in independent

living and she's a different person. And for me, having not knowing a lot about aging humans, it was as if it shaved off ten years of her life, just her spirit in general. And then I have a father who's extremely isolated, who wants to age at home but never sees people, and I see much more of a decline just in you know, he just watching Maverick on TV. And so, how important do you think is the socialization

and should adult kids be mindful of that? Well? I I've always known how important it is, but the pandemic I think proved it to everybody, not just for older adults, but for all of us. I mean, one of my clients said to me, this was maybe six months ago when we got the third wave, and she said to me, you know, Mary, I think my antidepressants need to be taking antidepressants. Um. And so I couldn't get in to see clients. They couldn't get out nursing homes, assisted livings.

I was still able to get into the home environment. Um. And oh my goodness, I saw clients just the depression and the isolation and the suddenly no motivation because they couldn't do anything, they couldn't go anywhere. And and then for the families and the loved ones, it's been heartbreaking. Let's end on a positive note, Mary, what are some of the things we can do to make our aging parents happier? I think try to provide experiences and memories Um,

most of my clients don't want things anymore. They're trying to get rid of things. They don't want more things. So um experiences time together, which creates memories. I really think that that's the best thing. At the same time, really listening carefully. I'm guilty of saying to my own mother, I can't read your mind. I need you to tell me what would be helpful, you know, cleaning the bathtub, scrubbing the stairs, you know, those kinds of in person

when you can do it helpful things. And again, so many older adults are really hesitant to ask for help, and so it's really a matter of seeking out what what they would enjoy at this time in their life.

And for many of my clients, they don't have that many so many years left, right, And I would assume that when you have an aging parent, no matter what your history, your psychological history is with them, whether you felt that you were feeling abandoned as a kid, or that they were too harsh there, they didn't like the person you married, you kind of at the end of their life have to put that aside and just be a human being with them. I think you know, and

just know that when they pass. There's no guilt involved. That you were there at the end and you were loving them and you were giving them these experiences and not holding grudges, And to me, that would be the most peaceful thing for both parties. I agree that you did your best. Yeah. Yeah, So, Mary, the tradition in the show Go Ask Ali is that I ask you a million questions, but then I allow my guests at the end of the podcast to ask me a question, and it can be about anything. So what is your

question Mary? For me? Well, since we've spent this half hour talking about aging and older adults, I think I'd like to ask a question about you when you were younger. Um, tell me what your most embarrassing moment was as a teenager or college. Oh, there are so many to choose from, Mary, but I have a couple of biggism I think I have some biggias too. I think one of the most embarrassing moments was I was a sophomore in college and I went to a party and I was wearing a

top that tied around the neck. It was kind of a halter top. And this was a kind of a party was older students, and I wanted to you know, seem kind of cool. And at one point I was talking to a bunch of people and there were people laughing and I didn't know what was going on, and I sort of turned around. I realized they were kind of laughing at me, which I'm used to in my life, and I had realized that the top had untied and

fallen and I was just standing there topless. Now I don't have the kind of boobs that rendered people with their tongues hanging out in It was just intense laughter. And I pretended like, oh gosh, how crazy, and acted like it was no big deal. But I actually went into the bathroom and cried. That was an embarrassing moment that has clearly stuck with me. I can realize why. So there you go, all right, okay, visiting old moments.

I had one college um. It was a public speaking class and I had to read a paper in front of a hundred students. I was eighteen, so I was a freshman, and I really wasn't worried about it because I didn't know I was afraid of public speaking until I got up on stage in front of the podium and I started to read this paper. And as I was reading it. I don't know if you've ever had that kind of right before you faint. You know, the sweat starts and the shaking starts, and then the noise

in your ears. It's like the room misclosing upon you. And so, in front of over a hundred nineteen year old I had to step from the podium, find a chair, sit down, spread my legs, and put my head down between my legs. Well, everybody watched me least say I'm sorry. I didn't do public speaking until graduate school when I was thirty. I can understand why. By the way, I can totally understand. Oh my god, so sorry, But yours is pretty bad too. Yours is a little worse. Actually,

at least I kept my clothes on. Well, yes, yes, good for you. Thank you Mary, and thank you for helping my siblings and I with my mom. Oh, you're very welcome. Listen. It is incredibly difficult for the children of aging parents and the aging parents themselves, and I think you have to trust your instincts about what's right

for your parents. I certainly know that my mother was looking at independent living and luckily found a place that she really liked, and I just went to visit her and has basically her own apartment with all the scaffolding of medical help around her. The socialization was such a key component for her, the idea that there are people around that she can go downstairs and have dinner with other people her age and talk about politics and art in music. She's very sharp and very lucid as a person,

but she's so much more engaged now. She goes to the museum, she goes to the opera. She would not go to the outlet mall with me, but I'm working on that. I will say that it took her about six months to feel acclimated because it's a huge change. And I mean, you know, we never go out of our high school thing where you know, there's clicks. People have already been at the facility, they've already formed some relationships. You have to kind of give it time and be proactive.

I mean, my mother is very good at, you know, starting a movie night, or if it's Abody's birthday, getting everybody to sign a card so they will find their place and listen. At one point or another, everybody will deal with an aging parent and at the end of the day, you have to do what's right. For your parents. Thank you for listening to Go Ask Alli. Check out

our show notes for more info. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review the podcast, and follow me on social media on Twitter at Ali e Wentworth and on Instagram at the Real Ali Wentworth. Now if you like to ask me a question or so just a guest or topic to dig into, I'd love to hear from you, and there's a bunch of ways to do it. You can call or text me at three to three three six four six three five six, or you can email a voice memo right from your phone to Go Ask

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