Addiction Proof Your Teen

my close circle. But when I was a teenager, I experimented a little bit, And now years later, I have two teenage daughters of my own, and honestly nervous, I think other parents can relate when I say we don't want our kids getting addicted to prescription drugs, to alcohol, to vaping. I mean, first of all, dueling and vaping didn't exist when I was a kid um and certainly now, as teens stay indoors due to COVID nineteen and keep us out of the rooms, I have to wonder, how

will we know if our teens are on drugs? Should we snoop through their stuff? How can we help them continue to be responsible even when we aren't around Today We're going to figure out how our kids are getting addicted and what we can do to stop it. My guest today is Janette Friedman. She's a clinical social worker, a family consultant, and a mental health and substance use disorder specialist. Before I speak to Jeanette, I once again have my daughter, Elliott Stephanopolis, who is my go to

for all things teenager. She is a eighteen year old and wise beyond her years. And Elliott, I wanted to ask you how rampant and you can be honest with me, how rampant is jeeling and baping in the teen world, because you know, when I was a teenager, the majority of my friends smoke cigarettes to be cool. I mom, me um, I would say, like every other person I know owns a jewel or like some kind of babe. Every other person you know, like if you put me in a room of five people, like three out of

five will own some sort of nicotine electronic device. And I mean people do smoke cigarettes now because jewels and like the disposable electronic cigarettes are are harder to get, so people just smoke regular cigarettes. And it's also like and did people you just stop me? No to God,

we are really demonstrating the parenteenager dynamic right now. My question to you is, um, did most of the people that are vaping and jeweling did they start because these companies introduce these jewels that are cookies and cream flavor, It has anything to do with the flavors, you don't? You think it's the high. I think it's like people are really stressed, and like you've talked about this with cigarettes, like having something in your hand. It's like for social

anxiety or stress, it's something to do. So I don't really think it has anything you do with the flavor. I think it's more like who I'm a teenager and I'm an experiment. And also with the stress social anxiety aspect, having any kind of reliever, I guess was nice. So teenagers don't like to go to parties and just play with their stress ball, you know. But it's also like flavors don't matter. No one's like comparing flavors, want to switch.

They'll just do any nicotine they have. Now I'm about to divulge something on this podcast, and you're gonna tell me, no, no, no, You're gonna tell me. First of all, if it's helped, I had you and your sister signed a contract every if you Glorious and my social circle, you guys signed a contract and basically, if you guys do not do drugs until you're twenty one, then you will be rewarded with maybe a trip or you know, a secondhand Honda accord or something but something, and you haven't so far.

I'm clarifying that the contract is no no hard drugs, but no weed, not pot, no weed, no cocaine, no mushrooms, no LST, none of that stuff, right, And is that is that an incentive not to do drugs having this contract with me and your dad? I mean yeah, I think like both my sister and I have like pretty bad social anxiety. So I think it's one way to avoid the pressures to be like listen, listen buddy, like I'm gonna get money. Um, So it's like a good out.

Even though there's I haven't really experienced a lot of peer pressure. I just also know myself like I'm very high, strong and tend to freak out and I feel like smoking weed or doing any hard drugs, but just emphasize that rather than diminish it. So yes it will. And I also hated my body is very sensitive because like I've already been on drugs prescription wise, and I've reacted really bad to it. Like I've taken adder all in, riddle in and all that stuff, and it made me

feel sick. You also had major, major back surgery, a spinal fusion, and you had to take opiates and everything for that, and that also made you sick. So you've had bad experiences with drugs that you actually needed to take for And I've said that to people and they're like, oh, like, what do you How do you know if you don't like it? I'm like, because I've taken it when I'm in like severe severe pain or like my brain literally cannot focus and it does more harm than good. Why

would I do when I'm non in pain. I know I'm still going to feel the bad effect, because yes, it did help with the pain, but yes I also had extreme side effects. Elliott. Yeah, thank you, Bye, thank you. I love you. And I will now turn my attention to Jeanette Friedman. She is a wealth of knowledge about everything surrounding teens and addiction. Let's get to it. I have so many questions for you, Jeanette. I got a lot of material real so, oh god. I love when

I hear that. Um, So let's let me just start by asking a basic question, because I want to sort of talk about what substance abuse is, how it affects the brain, and then we're going to kind of branch out to why teens do drugs, what kind of drugs, signs, how do we find treatment? So, first of all, how do you define substance addiction as it relates to a disorder.

So one good way that I think, I think to define it is to think of it something that is going to interfere with adolescent development, because virtually all addiction begins in an adolescence. And then if you go if you die a little deeper and you look at what happens in an adolescence, a lot of that is connected to early childhood. So really the people who need to be hearing this are the parents of young children, except that when you've got young children, you're not thinking of that.

You've got other things on your mind. But in fact, when you go back and you do like a forensic evaluation on how does something really start, What what happened to make this all um developed in the way it did, you're looking at things like temperament, you're looking at the risk factors, which UH are not about substances at all in the beginning, They're about temperament. As I said there about personality development, how much of it is genetic, So

genetics there is UH. There is definitely a percentage between twenty and of genetic link that will be that will affect a child. We try to go back about three generations and look at whether it's parents, grandparents, great grandparents, um. In terms of a biological connection. But you know, a genetic availability, it doesn't cause it. It makes it easier

to develop. And one of the biggest reasons that it makes it easier to develop is that a kid who comes from a family where there's been addiction of any so art is going to like a substance more. They just naturally will respond more. Their brain is going to respond more in a pleasurable way than someone who doesn't have it in their family. So it's something that kids will say, why me, because somebody else uses substances more than me, even and they don't seem to have a problem.

Once you are introduced to a substance that you like, that you respond to, it's pretty hard to forget what that feeling was and is this. Is it the same with alcohol and drugs. It's the same, yes, because alcohol is a drug and it's an addictive drug. It's just legal. Um. But but what we do find is that certain personalities are more attracted to certain drugs than others. Those certain

personalities are more interested in hallucinogens. Let's say, marijuana smokers often are much more interested in an experience that is related to fantasy, whereas people who tend to be more anxious and irritable are more drawn to alcohol. That said, once you develop a ritualized use of any of those substances and you don't have them available anymore, it becomes easy to move over to a different substance. You can switch seats, even though your favorite let's call it your

drug of choice, is one or the other. But generally there is a kind of personality that responds more to one than the other. And what about environmental stuff, you know, because you always read about um. You know, children that have gone through big emotional transitions in their life, like divorce or a death, um, certainly trauma. UM. How much do they factor into whether or not that child grows into an addictor right? So it factors in a lot

in that. If you look at the major risk factors, they are mental health issues like depression, anxiety, personality factors, genetic factors, and then trauma and trauma comes in what we call little tea and big t. In other words, there are the small all kind of microaggression that everybody suffers starting at an early age that will affect some

kids more than others. And then there are major traumas, major things like a natural disaster, like the death of an important person in the family that will really up end somebody's sense of equilibrium. So certainly, you know, what we know about trauma now is that what it does to the brain can be so debilitating for a young child because they just not equipped, They don't have that kind of resiliency. So we often overlook what happens with a child, a young child and trauma because they appear

to adjust. You know, you'll have someone who talks about a five year old after a divorce and they'll say, you know, my five year old is just amazingly mature about this and really doesn't have a problem with it at all. Well, that's because at five, you're really interested in pleasing your parents and having no conflict at all, So you don't even access the depth of of your loss until you're a little older. And so trauma, for sure is it is a problem. So let me let

me break down the brain a little bit. When there is trauma, let's say, or environmental factors, um that happened to you in your youth, when you get older and you're a teenager, in your frontal lobe hasn't completely developed, and you take risks and everything we know about teenagers, are you trying to numb the pain? Is it is the substance a numbing mechanism or an escape mechanism? What is it's all? It's it's all of those. It's it's

all of those whatever works for you. So this is partly why it is really so important for parents to try to not have their child exposed to addictive substances at an early age, because, as I said, once you introduce that into a very fragile brain, which is what all kids have, uh, it is very hard to turn away from that when you want it to be numbed, when you want to escape, If you have a memory of what that felt like, you're going to be drawn

to going back to that. If if you have access to it, so you know, once you discover it, once it's introduced to you, it becomes it's hard to discover, it's hard to undiscover it. So then it becomes a question of access and keeping kids away from it. But really, all as I said before, if we we have studies that have shown that if you could prevent kids from using any addictive substance until they're around three, you are

eradicated addiction. It doesn't exist because rain, which is dramatic, because the brain is so much stronger and resilient when you are in your early twenties than it is when you're twelve or thirteen. So parents, well meaning parents who are thinking, I just need to teach my child how to drink alcohol during a dinner, for example, so that when they get to college they won't make a fool

of themselves, Well, it doesn't work like that. If you have a brain that's really responsive to a substance, whether you start when you're thirteen or you're or later, there's there's likely to be a problem, you know. So it's not that we can teach kids how to use responsibly. There's kind of no such thing. So let me ask you this because another thing I hear a lot as a parent is, particularly with teenagers, that the idea of

trying drugs or drinking binge drinking. Everyone says, well, it's a rite of passage um, which has always been kind of a strange um phrase to me. But people say, oh, it's part of being a teenager. Or you know what, I bought the kids lots of alcohol. They're you know, they're having a party and that's just what teenagers do. Um. Yeah,

I know you have a lot to say. I could tell my face, well, you know, it's so interesting that whole that idea, which I know is very popular, I think is starting to change as people get more educated around what causes addiction to begin with, and that access is important. And if you have parents providing alcohol to underage kids, the kids automatically get the message that the

parents are really okay with that. They're not okay with being drunk, they're not okay with drunk driving, but if you want to drink at home with us, there's an illusion of safety when the parents are included. So the parents have the feeling that they are protecting their child by keeping them at home, letting them get high at home,

they're thinking is better than if they're out there. In terms of addictive process in the brain, the brain doesn't care whether you're at home, in your bedroom or out on the street or in college. It's that's a whole other experience. So the ways that parents who don't understand addictive process, the ways that they try to protect their kids, the well meaning ways often sort of feed into a mixed message about what what they're really trying to say.

Parents want their kids safe, and they often don't understand that you can't give addictive substances to a young brain without some sort of a cost involved. And the second piece of that is that a lot of parents get overly involved with their kids to begin with, and they are assuming that they know how to train a child to to be responsible with their their use. For example, they think they actually know how that child's brain works,

and usually that's not the case. And then there's a whole psychological emotional level on involvement with a child's life and feeling close to a child. So you'll have people talk about getting high with their child as a bonding experience, right, Well,

if it's a bonding experience, it's a problem. You see it a lot in film, the cool mom who comes in with margharita's for all the teenage girls, and you know, we sort of laugh at that, but there's there is something tragic about it, um, but also tragic about needing to drink a margharita with your daughter's friends. Well, yes, that's the other piece of it, is that what does that mean about? So yeah, I'm I'm still infantilizing my kids.

So there I have an eighteen year old that I want to make cookies with and she wants, you know, she wants me to get out of her room. But you know, it's funny that our culture we assist, you know, we insist on seat belts and helmets when we bike, and you know, sunscreen and all the precautions one takes

to keep your kids safe and healthy. And yet for some reason, the the alcohol and substance of you that seems to be something that people don't prepare their children for as much as everything else, which is somewhat disturbing and uh shocking to me. You know, I think if you've had it in your family, or you've you've been aware of it with let's say, one of your child's

friends or a friend of yours and their family. If you know of it more firsthand, you have a very different approach, because that's the kind of parent who says, there's no way I'm going to allow my family to go down that path because I've seen where it goes and I don't want to even take the risk. If it seems to have not touched you, then you are

more the way you described. You know, there's a more there's a more relaxed attitude and the feeling that, well, it couldn't happen to us, because we're not that kind of family. You know, we're not that kind of parent. It wouldn't happen to my child, because my child would never do X y Z. So, you know, addiction and accidents related to two substances, they are really accidents. They're not you know, no one waves up in the morning

and says, how can I really ruin my future? It's so subtle how this develops, and and people really have trouble seeing what they don't want to see. We're going to take a short break and we'll be right back. Welcome back with more, go ask Galley. I would think that teenagers are very susceptible because they're dealing with, you know, mood swings and hormones and um, you know, trying to fit in and social anxiety. I mean I can understand how a drug could be so seductive, particularly at this

time in life. Yes, yes, so you know, there used to be a joke about people in twelve step programs that um people would say, well, I you know, I have anxiety disorder. If you went to an A meeting, probably nine of the people in an A meeting could qualify as having a diagnosis of a generalized anxiety disorder. Because anxiety feeds a need for calm and a need for peace and alcohol. As I said, once you discover it,

nothing is going to work as quickly as alcohol. You know, not talking to a therapist or reading a book or taking a bath or going for a walk, nothing is going to work as quickly as a mood altering drugs. So it becomes so easy to get in all and

it is really accidental. It is. People are innocent victims until it takes hold, and then there's a whole other, you know, psychological emotional component in terms of shame and feeling like they did something wrong because they got dependent on this substance, but it happened so subtly they didn't know, and the families often don't know that's happening, and so and they can move from one to another, obviously, can

they can go from something softer into something harder. And I think about like in California, where you know, marijuana is legal, there is one less barricade for teenagers in that sense too. And I've I've known friends that have had kids that have started with marijuana and then got more addicted to harder substances. You know, this is one of those things nobody wants to believe. If you have a child who is just getting high on weed, you don't want to believe that there is a greater risk

for it becoming more serious with harder drugs. But let me just say that if you have an emotionally psychiatrically fragile kid, that kid is not going to do well with weed. Weed is enough. We does enough to cause a psychotic break, to cause kids to commit crimes, to do things they would never ever ever do if they were not psychotic. And that's there's a link there. It's

not to say that we'd causes the psychotic break. It's to say that the kid who is fragile to begin with, once they start regularly using a substance, even weed, because people seem to think it's so benign, that's enough. They don't need they don't need heroin, they don't need cocaine, they don't need to homsin agen. That's enough. So, you know, from my point of view, we talked about really about ten percent of the population gets addicted. Of that ten percent,

only about ten percent get some treatment. But even if it's only ten percent of the population that gets addicted, if it's in your family, it's not it's and so then then it doesn't matter. You know, the statistics don't matter, the anecdotes don't matter. You haven't in your family. So everyone is affected. You know, siblings are affected by all the energy that gets taken up by that one kid.

You know, finances are affected. It's horrifically expensive to get really good treatment over the long haul, and most of the time treatment is a long process. It's not thirty days. Yeah. Another myths that people think, oh, well, well right. You know, in my work, I always think if people understood how painful and heartbreaking it can get, they would work much harder on the front end to do some of these things that we're talking about, you know, to just protect

their kids for a time. And as I said, you know, once they're twenty four there they can relax. Everybody can relax much more because they're not going to damage their brains like they do when they're younger. Now, this is a very hard message. If somebody is regularly using we they don't want to hear this. Yeah, they're not interested.

But it's also so interesting in what you're saying about having to kind of you know, front load all that focus because you know, I think a lot of parents are guilty of you know, not my kid, not my kid, and then their kid becomes addicted and then they go, oh god, now we have to do something. Um because like you said when we started, when you have younger kids, the last thing you're thinking about is that you know, you're thinking about, you know, potty training and all kinds

of other things you're thinking to have preschool. And also parents blame themselves so much, you so you don't want to think that you could actually have that problem because you're gonna feel like you did it. You're gonna feel like it's your fault of course, Um, that's a whole other terrible thing that parents have to go through. Yeah, well I have a friend going through it now, so tell me about um. When we talk about drugs, we

have alcohol in one column. When we talk about drugs, it seems to me there's the marijuana and cocaine and you know, crack. I don't. I don't even know if people still do crack, but you know, they're all those kind of strong things. But we also have a big opiate addiction. And also one of the things I hear more and more is people are kids, teenagers taking prescription medication from their parents bathrooms. So I know somebody who a kid went into cardiac arrest because they had snorted adderall,

which is an a d h D drug. So in terms of kind of what the landscape looks like, now, what are you what are sort of big red flags for you? Well, there's a lot of views of pharmaceuticals kids are getting from one another, They get them from their parents, they get them on the street, that kids are smart drugs In other words, adderall riddling to help

kids study. And certainly we know that you can get much more alert, you can you know, do a lot more if you're running around on an anphetamine like adderall, but the kids who have been officially diagnosed with something like a d h D, for example, it does not rev them up that that you know, taking it appropriately will prevent substance problems later for most of those kids

because they're appropriately medicated. But for kids who are using it kind of illegitimately or because they want to take a test, or all the different ways that people can um, they're getting it from a lot of different sources. They're using it selectively. They're thinking, I'll just use it for this test, or I'll just use it for this all night, or I have to pull to get this paper done.

You develop a taste for it because you feel so energetic and there is a euphoria attached, and so that is that part of their recreational Like if somebody's at a party snorting adderall, what is that? All out? Amphetamines? If you take them, especially with alcohol, you get sort of double triple the effect. So adderall will increase the effects of alcohol um and vice versa, so you end up with a big buzz. So this is what happens with for example, zan X mixing xanax or any of

the benzodiazepines. With alcohol, you get high, you don't just calm down, which is what you might use zan x for. Legitimately you you actually have a much bigger effect. By the way, this is one of the respectors with adolescence is they don't use like adults used. They use for a mood change, and they're interested in a mood change as quickly as possible. They're not interested in titrating slowly

getting somewhere. They want to get there now. And so this is where you get the notion of several shots. You know, go to a bar and have several shots. They're not having one shot, they're having six or seven because they really just want the mood change. So it is very different end from a mature adult who decides to have, you know, wine with their fish. It's not or you can go or exan X on an airplane or azan X on an airplane. Right, it's a very

different thing. I know a lot of parents don't understand that about their kids. They really think they're using it like they would use it, and the effect is very different. So, you know, it's a difficult thing to educate about because people don't want to they don't want to hear that

are there. And there must be differences between a child who is smoking pot and taking mushrooms to a child that is abusing prescription man made, chemically induced pharmaceutical drugs a difference in terms of well, in terms of what

they're doing to their body and their brain. For some reason in my mind, and this is just based on things I've read, that the the chemical the the opiates, the klonopins, the oxycon all those drugs that are completely synthetic are a lot more dangerous to a teenage brain. Then let's say, uh, plant based drugs. No, I wouldn't agree with that. I mean, obviously, if you're talking about an opiate, that has a very intense effect and so that's going to affect a teenage But again, don't forget

we're talking about a teenage brain. So whether you're talking synthetics or whether you're talking plant based, the brain is affected. I think the difference. You know, most kids who have never used any drugs at all don't start with an opiate. They're not popping a couple of anything. Really, They're usually starting on something much milder or what they think of

as milder. Uh so in terms of the difference, Uh, certainly, you know you're hurting your brain no matter what you're using if it has an addictive property to it, which all of those drugs do. Whether it's money or drugs or a pure group that has access. Access and supervision are two of the big, big hall marks to helping

kids with substance problems. Once they have disposable money and you're not tracking it, you don't know what they're spending it on, they have access to kind of whatever they want. Two antidepressants um not the same, not to stay the same,

but do they help it in terms of addiction. Well, so, here's the interesting thing is if you have a child who seems depressed and they're also, let's say, using a lot of marijuana, or they're using it several times a week, it's very hard to know how much of that presentation of no motivation, flatness, looking depressed, not being able to

get out of bed, argumentative, irritable, moody. It's very hard to know how much of that is related to the drug and how much of it is actually real organic depression. And so it's it's just tough to diagnose. So if you end up with taking an antidepressant and you're also medicating yourself with we again, we don't really know whether the antidepressant is working. To get it. To to really do an accurate study on that, you'd have to have

them off of the weed. And by the time your child is presenting as depressed, if they're a regular weed smoker, they don't want to stop the weed because that has become a ritualized, favorite, go to thing that they do that brings them relief all sorts, that's connected to their peer group. So it's not so easy to have somebody stop using something like weed because you want to get a trial of antidepressants going and see if that would help.

So then you have a whole social construct involved in the mix that again makes it harder to make a change. Let's look at how you can tell if your team is on drugs, because, uh, there are some of the signs that you just mentioned, Um, they are skipping school, they're sleeping late, they're not well groom their argumentative Like you said, what are what are some other signs that may not be as obvious, so you it can be

hard to know. There are a lot of parents who will say they have no idea what their child looks like when they're high. And then you have some parents who say, oh yeah, I know, I know when it's happening. So the signs of things like as you as you pointed out things like lethargy, you know, no motivation, seeming depressed, dropping activities that they used to love, losing a kind of joy and a kind of enthusiasm for a lot

of different things. Sports go by the wayside often, like really good athletes who start to get involved in a substance will lose interest um their Their peer group often changes, so they will drop the kids from what they used to be friends with, or they will see them less and they'll go more towards this other group. Parents often don't know this other group because they might come from a different school. In high school, it can be hard to trace because kids are high school are drawing from

a lot of different places. You don't always know their parents. So that change in pure group can can be an indication money. You know, money that's missing, money that's getting spent, but you can't really account for it. Speaking of you,

did I know you did a podcast? On social media as well as the body image one and you know this falls right into the same They all can really coincide all these different issues because there are a lot of there's a lot of social media now that is very drug related, and there are a lot of ways to get money for kids to get money, but they that their parents don't know about that is connected to social media or connected to an app for example selling something.

So so you mean selling something like my Kashmir sweater, used Kashmre sweater, like a picture or like a picture of you. Uh, you know, there's a lot there's a lot of that going on right now that didn't exist a few years ago, and so parents are discovering that their child has all this money all of a sudden that they they can't understand, and it's because they're involved in some sort uh, you know, clandestine social media. So

are you talking pornography? It can go there, you know, there's certainly there's certainly that, uh, and then several steps before that, so where you can really get a very naive young adolescent who just wants some attention, who doesn't

really understand much else that's going on about that. Yeah, it's funny that you say that, because I had a bunch of teenage girls were over at our house the other day and one of them said, um, oh my god, somebody d m me on social media and said they would give me um if I sent them photos of my feet. And everybody was kind of laughing, and I thought, that's doesn't sound very good, you know, but they to them it was like, how easy is that? I sent him some photos of my feet and I get money?

So well, so that's where that's sort of where it starts. Okay, it starts with the feet, Okay, yeah, I get works the way up and then it works is so that is, Yes, that's a that's become a popular the site that again parents have no clue A lot of this is going on. You know, when I talk about access in supervision, that's the piece about supervision is especially during the pandemic, where everybody is on top of everybody else and everybody needs

some privacy and should have some. But there's also the naivete of a young adolescent who is, you know, with their computer in their room. You don't know what is, you don't know who is the creditor in there, and you're trying to keep them safe, and yet you want them to be able to make their own decisions. It's just very tough on parents. Yeah, all right, so let me let's go through a scenario. Let's pretend I have

a teenage boy, which I don't. Um, but that way, neither of my teenage girls goes are you talking about me? I have a teenage boy named Timmy, and Timmy is sort of skipping school. Now we are in a pandemic, and so he spends a lot of time in its room. Um, I start to suspect that he's taking stuff. He's just he's not the Timmy he used to be. Um, do I snoop? Do I rifle through his stuff? Do I look for evidence of drugs? Is that the first step? So you know, it's a tough it's such a tough question.

Parents are generally horrified at the suggestion that you might have to look in somebody's room because they are so um focused on the idea of trust. You have to think about who's losing who's trust in a case like that. In other words, you wouldn't probably feel the need to look unless there was some secrecy that was making you nervous, And so that really becomes that's sort of on the child is why is why is he being so secretive? What's he hiding? If he denies it repeatedly and he

yet he seems withdrawn, he seems different. Some parents that you know, depending on the degree of fear they have, will start to look. You know, I'm not I'm not. I'm not saying one should look or one shouldn't look. I'm saying or you have It's a double edged sword because on one hand, it is you can trust your gut that you basically probably know your kid, and you know. You know whether they're anxious, you know whether they're insecure,

you know whether they have troublemaking friends. You know that there tend to be argumentative or defensive, and that they can't take feedback, or that they're just uncomfortable in their skin. That you know, you don't necessarily know whether they're using anything, but you know enough about their risk factors to be worried. And then they're secretive and you start suspecting things. It usually doesn't come out of nowhere. I mean, most parents are not that paranoid about They are accused of it.

They're always accused of being paranoid, but they're not wanting to find this. It's more the opposite. It's more that it's around them and they they have trouble seeing it because they don't want to see it. So I think, based on your fear, you follow your your instinct to do what you need to protect your child. They are not going to like it, you know. It's another problem

in terms of trust. What I see is people do it when they get very desperate and they're, you know, just very afraid that they're missing something, and then once they do discover it, they feel stupid that they should have looked earlier, that they so, And then nobody ever says I'm glad I didn't know all that. They always say I wish I'd known earlier, because intervening earlier is so much easier then later. And with substance use, the more you do it, the more deeply involved you get,

and the more deeply your brain is affected. A good way to think about Selsin's us is that it's a thinking problem much more than an actual drinking problem drug problem. It changes the way you think, and it changes the way you use your defenses, the way you deal with people. So that in itself, if you have a child who's becoming really defensive and argumentative, and seems to always be negative,

excessively negative. There's something going on with his thinking, right, and that's enough to help you maybe get him some help, not even specifically drug related, but just more mental health, emotional health, too much stress, what's going on. And I find that that's a really good gait for parents to use. Is is speaking from the idea that you're not dealing with something. There's something too stressful in your life. You seem really upset, you seem sad, you're not yourself. So

it's a mental health issue. We look at it. It's a mental health issue. It's always a mental health issue. There's no such thing as an isolated drug problem. Now a quick word from our sponsors, welcome back to go ask aali. Let's get back to the discussion. Have you found that in the pandemic because of the uncertainty of the world, there's an increase in drug take, an increase in addiction. Well, certainly it's easier to find because everybody's

living together. It's a little easier to uncover. It's not so easy to hide. H I think that the stress of families, when kids are subjected to the stress of their parents and see how their parents handle things, in addition to their own stress and how they're managing It's a lot, yeah, I would assume, to with with the parents being stressed and families being fractured because they've lost

jobs or somebody's died in the family. I mean, you know, COVID's really you know, Yeah, it's an overwhelming situation for normal minds to manage, much less somebody who's more vulnerable. I would assume adult adults are probably taking more duds and drinking more us. Oh. Yes, And what do you say to um parents, uh who see other children that they suspect to have a drug problem. Do you tell those parents? If I see a friend of my daughters maybe who I think is as an addiction problem, is

it my place to say something? I mean, I'm terrified of doing that, but well, you know, if you go back to the idea of it takes a village, which I do believe it does, we all need to watch out for everyone's children, one another's children. I would want that for mine, and you'd probably want somebody to go to you and say something, even if you don't like the message. You'd rather know sooner. It's a terrible feeling to know that the whole town knows about your child,

the whole school knows, and you don't know. So I think depending on you know, what you're on, the peer

group that you're in. You know, a lot of parents get together at the beginning of the school year of parents of teens, and they will talk about these things, and they'll say, Okay, do we want to kind make a pact that if we hear something, if we notice something about one of our kids, are we all okay with us talking about it and and bringing it to the forefront um as a way to kind of jointly own this problem and really take care of one another

instead of being so isolated and feeling as though there's there's a lot of shame in there that you're trying to protect. So I think that's a really good way. Does it actually, yeah, Oh it works, It does. It works. It works because I will have kids say to me, you know, everything was fine until my parents started talking to everybody, all the other parents, and now I can't get away with anything. And they say it with a combination of irritation and also pride that they're yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because the other thing to keep in mind is a lot of kids getting situations but they don't really want to be in and they don't know how to get out of. We don't teach good refusal skills with our kids. We don't teach them how to say no in a way that is tactful enough that they don't break off a relationship. That's hard for adults as well as for kids. Yeah, I actually think there should be strategies for parents. I mean, I know that we've sat down with our kids and

we've said, look, you don't particularly like to drink. You don't like the taste of alcohol, so hold you know, a red plastic cup of ginger ale. Nobody needs to know what you're drinking. Um or you know, we've gone through all the scenarios. If you're at a party and your best friends really drunk and her parents are strict and you don't know what to do, call us, call us, call us. But you know that was sort of um.

That was not the case of my childhood. So it's not like somebody instructed me that it felt like an intuitive thing to say to my daughters. Just call me. We can handle anything. We can deal with anything. I just don't want you to be in danger in any way. So the so the other thing you will see with a healthier family is an ability to talk about these things. An ability for kids to come on from a party and say it was this, it was that, and you know, I was a little worried about so and so, but

here's what happened. That's a real opportunity for the parent to respond in the right way, so they encourage the conversation instead of shutting it down. So if they're shocked, if they're saying, that's such a that kid, you can't ever see that kid again. You know, this is terrible. They're bad, I e were good. Any of that sort of judgment is a disaster. But but you can really engage your kids in a conversation where there's no judgment,

but you're just interested. You're interested and you're curious about them and how people cope with things. Another really good thing to do is sort of role play with them that you're the best friend and you're the wasted one, or you're the same one and the other one is it and help them practice scenarios. What would they do at a time like that, You know, how do they have a particular code word if they're calling you, that means this is trouble, Come get me out of here.

All of those kinds of preparations make people feel safer, and practicing um is a is a great thing to do. It's just that I find it in a lot of families. They're afraid to do that. They're afraid that they're going to encourage something that their their kids are going to take something away that they didn't mean. But becoming comfortable with open conversation is is a kind of protector because anyway you want them to go to you, you don't

want them to be stuck in a situation. You know, I should say everybody should instruct their kids that if they're with a friend who passes out from an alcohol or drugs, they have to go straight to nine one emergency room. They can't presume that it's just they just need to let them sleep it off, or that it's not a big deal. I'll put them in and over right. Yeah. So there's one other thing besides social media that I didn't grow up with that I do not understand, but

I'm scared of it is vaping and jeweling. My kids had to teach me the difference between vaping and jeweling. But also, you know, everything we've read is they are also gateways to drug They are another way to get your system addicted. How do we stop that? That seems to be something everyone's doing in every bathroom and every

school all the time. You can't smell it. It's a huge it's a huge problem because the industries that are creating, that have manufactured these products know that they have a huge population, a huge um sale on their hands because they're really targeting kids. You know, they will say that they're targeting adults, they're targeting kids, and so when they taste like cookies and cream, it's not for adults, right, So you know, again, I think it's the same message

as before with nicotine. Um, a lot of families I know are just as upset about nicotine as they are about marijuana or anything else because they see it as so addicting. And it's true. And studies will show that the earlier a kid is smoking cigarettes, for example, or getting a nicotine fixed, the earlier the bigger risk factor for later drug use. So it's it's a big problem.

And I can remember a few years ago having parents early on in the vaping subject who were adamant that wanted their child to not vape, and you know, the child was serious because all of his friends were doing it, and they just kind of struck to their guns about this because they felt so strongly they had addiction in the family. They were really determined and paid off in

the end. But it was very tough because a lot of his friends were doing it, and so he was feeling like an outsider um that his parents weren't allowing it. These are the things in our culture that are very difficult to really sort of separate out. Who's who can really be a mature adult and see something as a third eye versus someone who gets overly invested in their kids success and is afraid to see what's there so

then they can't help them. It's funny because I was I went away to boarding school at thirteen and survival and boarding school was smoking cigarettes that sort of separated the men from the boys. So I started smoking for survival so I could be in the butt room with the cool girls. And that started at thirteen fourteen, and I didn't quit until I got married in my early thirties and got pregnant, otherwise I couldn't. I mean I

smoked a pack of camel lights a day. And what's interesting is that my kids think it's the most disgusting thing they've ever They cannot believe that I smoked cigarettes and how gross was I And they can't wrap their head around it. I mean, they really they turned into my parents and they're very judgmental, and which is which is interesting to me. But yet nobody was watching me at thirteen. No one cared, you know, and it was and what about and what about the vaping that they see?

They saw the cigarette smoking. It's really disgusting, but not vaping. No, they think vaping and jeweling is disgusting too, thank god, but they certain, but they've but they've told me that, you know, everybody does it. And the great thing, or not the great thing, but the positive thing for people that are vaping and dueling is you can't detect it. Now.

When I smoked cigarettes, and even when I first married my husband, you know, I could take three showers and brush my teeth and eat a green apple and he could immediately smell that I had a cigarette. But you can hide the other stuff so much better. And that's why the rate of addiction goes up so so quickly with them because they can because in the old days you did it, you had to hide it because it did smell, and so you could only do it at certain times and you had to be very careful how

you used it, so that automatically limits your use. Now there's no limit to the use. You can use it all day long and no one really knows. So that means that the addiction rate goes way, way, way up, So it doesn't take long to become really addicted to nicotine. Le say, by the way, jewel and and uh, you know pods you can there's marijuana in there as well. You can switch things out. So whether they're getting nicotine or whether they're getting weed, there's there's something that they're

getting and it's being ingested in the law. So I don't know. I'm sure you've seen all the recent studies on trying to alert people to the dangers of they being with COVID Y and the high risk factory. Yes, yeah, and you know young people again, they they're not their brains are not developed enough to even believe that that could happen. So I think as apparent you just have to say, you know, in terms of dueling and vaping. No,

absolutely not. You have to say no, and I think you have to explain why, and you have to ask that they trust you that you know a little bit more because of your advanced age or all of your experience, that you're hoping that they can trust that you're out for their best interests, because the message would be mixed if you said, well, you can do it a little bit, but just don't do it too much. That's where parents get in trouble. They try to be reasonable, and what

the kid is hearing is it's okay. You know, if they're saying I can have one vodka UM on a Saturday night, basically what they're saying is it's okay to have vodka. That is how it's an adolescent translates that message. So the parent means just a little and don't get out of control. The kid doesn't hear that because their brain they're they're thinking, is not evolved to that point yet. So a lot of this is about how do you

translate between the generations. You know, are you sure you're delivering a message that they can actually hear versus what you think you you're doing just scare to scare tactics work with parents. No, No, scare tactics don't. Showing showing them a picture of lungs after vaping is not going to have a big effect on them. Well, in effect, it certainly may. It certainly had an effect on me, but I don't think it has that much of an effect. All the studies have shown that scared straight and those

techniques aren't really that effective. But the great thing about adolescence is if they're very sensitive to hypocrisy, so they can spot something disingenuous very quickly, and once they spot it in their parents, especially, then they're out for blood. Then they will debate you to the end because they have found your weak spot. Again, it's part of their own moral development is being able to fire it out.

What's hypocritical, you know why, unfairness, you know justice. It's why debate teams are so popular in high school because really the brain of that adolescent stage is primed to argue and to research your point of view and to fight for what you want. So it's it all kind of works together. But when it comes to drug use, um, it's it's it's humorous in a way, how much, how very passionate they can be with their research, which of course is self selected because they went to certain sites

to get their research, they need go to the other sites. Um. But that's all right. It's still part of their their own intellectual development. Which I think is a really great thing about talking about something with kids at that age is they have they have a way to see right through to something that's fake, so scared straight. Even though it's of course true that people can have horrific experiences because of it, they see as a manipulation and you know,

they're not wrong, right. So I in terms of taking Timmy through all this, and we've we've uh, he has a problem. I've gone into his room, I found the drugs. There are innumerable treatment centers, there's all kinds of hotlines, um for people who need help. But I want to just end this podcast by emphasizing a few of the things that you said which I think are really important, which is to h to educate our kids even before

the age where they would probably start experimenting with drugs. Yes, but I think it's more important to educate the parents, you know, I think I think the parents. If the parents feel confident in a point of view, then it's much easier for the kids to follow. If the parents are ambivalent, they're not sure. They had a wild childhood and they turned out fine. Be in your particular case, it's almost a problem because you look at you and yet you can say you had this this experience when

you were younger. So it would be easy for kids like yours to say, well, you're fine, but their fin it's their father. Their father was perfection, never did anything, so I always we emphasize him. So but you can see how it's important for the parents to know what they're doing, to have a policy of their own. It's not easy to do, but that is I think the key is with the parents. It's and also to be

very clear and concise about what their thoughts about. Like we talked before about you know, not a drink here, maybe drink there, or you know not to wish to be clear right because you know, kids will get help when the parents are ready for them to get help. If the parents aren't ready, it's not happening. So I do think the power, the center of power is with the parents. Even though they might feel disempowered, they might

feel as though no one's listening to them. They have so much more influence on their kids than they might think, and then when they are in those adolescent years, to communicate with them, to to be able to talk with them. And if you're really worried, you know, if you think there's a problem, to be able to say, you know, I'm too worried as your mother or your dad, I'm uncomfortable.

You might be comfortable, Johnny, but I'm uncomfortable with this, and I think we need to go see somebody and just get a get an assessment and see what somebody else, what a professional thinks. Um, not a problem. Let's just do that and then we'll take it from there. So you really try to not raise a flag of panic. You try to not you definitely don't start accusing somebody of you know, being a drug addict or anything inflammatory.

You try to take it from the point of view of we see your struggling and we want to get you help, and help is available, and we don't stop, we don't give up. So it's lots of opportunities to model that. Um, how do you handle a problem in a family. UM. So, yes, there's stigma, Yes there's shame. But if you I think, if you're really well educated about it. You can rise above that. There's a lot of great help. There are a lot of parent groups, there are there's a lot of support. Um, but it's

a it's a tough initiation. It's a lot you know, there's a lot of information. I can never but it's just you get me started. I can't stop. No, But that's what's so great about it. But also you know, that's why I wanted to emphasize, you know, or punctuate the things that you were saying, because I never would have thought too sort of look look at younger kids at all. I never even you know, talked about alcohol with my kids until they were of the age. You know, right,

no one, no one does. But you know, if you ask a kindergarten teacher or preschool teacher, you know, can you spot the kids in your class that you think would be at risk of like emotional problems later? Um, they can tell you that's what I mean, But no one wants to do it because if they're these adorable little children and you have the impression that they have their whole lives and it's all going to be you know, sweetness and unicorns, But you can spot the children who

are fragile. This happens more to children who are fragile. It's fragile kids who often develop a drug problem. And so it's such a great injustice that we do when we label them in the ways we do, because it's not it's not their fault, you know, when it's not their fault that somebody introduced them to a joint when they were twelve or a cigarette when they were twelve. They got this feeling and it made them feel better

than they normally feel. It is awful to go through a childhood feeling not normal, not good, not smart, not whatever, you know. So the shame that they start to carry speeds that need for a mood change. So it's all it's all innocent, and they're fragile kids and misunderstood big time. M hmm. Thank you so much for this welcome, welcome, my pleasure. Have educated me in in such tremendous ways, and I hope everybody that just listened to it too got a lot of information and helps. So thank you

so much. Well, you're welcome, Thanks for having me, Thank you for tuning in to go ask Ali. Be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a review, and follow me and my undoctored posts on social media. I'm on Twitter at Ali e Wentworth and on Instagram at the Real Ali Wentworth. Go ask Ali the production of Shonda Land Audio and partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.