[00:00:00] Austin: Back by popular demand. In fact, the entire planet was demanding that we have Michelle back on the show today. So again, back by popular demand, we have Michelle as a guest, uh, to walk us through thematically, the ultimate guide, or this will become the ultimate guide, respond rectors, looking to hire talus and Michelle, thanks for coming back on.
[00:00:27] Michelle: Thank you for having me. I love to be here.
[00:00:30] Austin: So let's start with the biggest problem facing spa directors today that are looking to hire talents. What is the biggest problem facing them today?
[00:00:43] Michelle: Yeah. So it's just really finding good people and getting them to apply and actually, you know, either go online and apply, walk in.
[00:00:52] It's really just finding good people. So I, you know, I would love to talk today about, um, how to go about kind of recruiting and [00:01:00] finding good people for your business, whether that's, you know, massage therapist, aesthetician, um, hairstylists, nail technicians, front desk staff, you know, whatever that may be, um, how to go about finding those people.
[00:01:12] And then talk a little bit about what that interview process should look like. Um, and kind of some, some tips for actually using, you know, conducting the actual interview and, you know, some mistakes things to try not to do, um, in the interviewing process. And then, you know, while you're interviewing people, then how to go about picking, like, who am I going to hire?
[00:01:34] What are these people should, you know, should be on like,
[00:01:39] So to get started. And you know, some of these are conventional non-conventional means these are things that, you know, in my 23 years, as a spa director, and you know, now an additional five years as a spa consultant, you know, giving, giving advice to others has, has come in really handy. Um, and of course, you know, in the times we're in, um, you know, the world is [00:02:00] opening back up.
[00:02:00] Things are, you know, Getting more open again. Um, so hopefully these will apply going forward. Um, so one of the first things you can do is hold a job fair at your, at your spa at your salon. Um, you know, advertise this on, on social media, get the word out. Um, you can also put this on, you know, LinkedIn, um, indeed different sites.
[00:02:24] So, you know, have an open house where it's more of a relaxed setting, you know, interviewing can be really intimidating for people. And there's some people I think that probably just get really stressed out about the process and having maybe a little bit more of a, you know, coming in. Also get a chance to come in and check out our business.
[00:02:41] You know, we can get to know you, you can get to know us and a little bit more of a relaxed setting. Um, you know, maybe you have order herbs. You, you know, I, you know, you could start cocktails, maybe not though, um, maybe have some kombucha instead, something not alcoholic, but some refreshments, um, where you can then, you know, also [00:03:00] give them a tour as if they are coming in as a client.
[00:03:03] So, you know, show them your facility, uh, maybe have one of your lead technicians or someone on your team who is an amazing team member, you know, be able to come in and talk to the applicants and maybe tell them, you know, why I love working here. And, um, you know, see that from an employee perspective, I think can be great for them beyond just speaking to a manager or an owner.
[00:03:27] To get a little bit of insight. Maybe they can also ask some questions. Um, and then it's up to you. If you want to conduct some, you know, prescreening or mini interviews during that, you can, um, you could also just, you know, give that as an opportunity for people to obviously then go ahead and apply if they've come in and they've checked you out and it looks like an environment that they would like to work in.
[00:03:48] Um, then you can obviously invite those people back for that in-person interview that you feel would be a good fit. So that would be something I would, you know, start off with, um, especially when you're [00:04:00] hiring for multiple positions. So if you're in a situation where you need pretty much everything, like you need people at your front desk, you need massage therapist.
[00:04:09] And yesterday she really open to just like finding people for multiple positions and open house scenario, job. There can work out really well to get, you know, a bunch of people in the door, all that. Um,
[00:04:21] Austin: so sorry to interrupt, but quick, quick question, that jumps to mind with the, uh, the alcohol or the cocktail idea is if there's something to be said about, um, well let me set this up with no, no, let me choose the waste.
[00:04:38] Let me finish the question. Then I'll provide some context as to where this thought came from. Is there some merits in having some sort of, for lack of a better way of characterizing it hidden test inside of the environment that is the, in this case job, fair type a environment [00:05:00] where your you're sussing out, who is going to respond to what and the what in this case would be the cocktails and observing how they operates when they have what seems to be free, licensed to be.
[00:05:16] A drunkard or something like that. And this is coming from, maybe I'm starting to give you some context here. So I think this will be, um, necessary to understand what the hell I'm asking. I remember hearing about this CEO that would bring people out to lunch, and if they put salts on their food before tasting it, he would decline them immediately.
[00:05:40] And the reason why is because that was a signal as to their character and their proclivity to go about changing things before understanding why the thing is the way it was in this case, the food dish, which is something like Chesterton's, I think it's Chesterton's fence, which is the idea of, Hey, this fence has been here on this [00:06:00] plot of land for a thousand years before we go demolish it.
[00:06:03] Let's figure out why it's there. So is there something like that where. You maybe want to intentionally set up certain, um, I don't know what the term would be a little mini tests or hidden tests or something, right? Like the salt example or Chesterton's fence example or in this job. Fair idea of, Hey, let's put out a bunch of booze and put no restrictions on it.
[00:06:25] And the people that consume a bunch. Yeah. Don't hire them. But the people that handle it with grace or whatever, like, Hey, go ahead and test. That's the person we should hire. Is there something to that
[00:06:36] Michelle: you think, I don't know if there's something to that I personally wouldn't necessarily advise on testing people in that way.
[00:06:42] I think, you know, if that's your nature and that's what you want to do, I wouldn't necessarily set up tests. I think that there are things that are going to naturally probably occur in the environment that you can observe. You can observe people how they're interacting with others. Potential applicants again, having that staff member come in and give the [00:07:00] opportunity for them to ask questions.
[00:07:01] What kind of questions are these people asking? I think there's so much else that you can observe as far as the types of questions that they ask, how they interact with others without having to, to create these hurdles, to see, you know, they can get past these hurdles, so to speak. So I wouldn't necessarily, you know, again, to each, to each his own, if that's fun for you, I try to make it fair for everyone and not maybe create an environment that, you know, he's trying to set people up to fail.
[00:07:30] Um, you know, you, you, yes, you want to weed people out, but we'll get to kind of how you can go about doing that without having to create these tests. Yeah. And, um, the second thing that I found to be really, um, A productive thing when it comes to finding the people is create a referral program for your current employees.
[00:07:51] So if they refer someone to you, um, who ends up staying, let's say 90 days, you know, makes it past that initial phase. You can, you know, [00:08:00] incentivize them with like a referral bonus. Um, I think this works twofold because. No one wants to work with people who are not good to work with. So, you know, if you have someone working for you and they know this person is a horrible employee, uh, they're probably not going to go through the process of disrupting their whole work environment, just to get a referral bonus.
[00:08:20] Like they, to want someone there who, you know, they enjoy working with this person. You know, not only because maybe this person's fun to be around, but they also know that their work ethic is good and it's not going to create more work for the rest of the team. Um, so really creating some kind of program where your employees know, okay.
[00:08:38] If I, if I find someone good that joins the team and stays, I'm going to be rewarded for this. So that would be. Kind of the next, the next step. Um, and then the third thing would be to, you know, as again, like, as the world is opening back up, um, I encourage you to always as business owners, as managers to participate [00:09:00] in community events.
[00:09:01] Um, so to get out and make connections, you know, where you're, whether it's some type of festival some way where you can promote your services. So whether you're going out and you're giving, you know, free massages or skincare consultations or whatever it is that kind of service that you provide, um, when you get out and you're participating in maybe.
[00:09:21] Um, uh, a cyber situation where they're raising money for something. So you're supporting an organization. People are going to see, okay, well this, this particular business supports this cause. And this is also something that, you know, I feel strongly about. That's the type of person and the type of environment that I want to work in.
[00:09:38] So, you know, getting yourself out into the community and people can see that this is a business that supports the community. You're going to then find people that want to work for you. That also are like-minded people that you know, want to give back. So that would be my third, third thing on the list. Um, and fourth again, you can kind of do that.
[00:09:58] When you're out in the [00:10:00] community, um, or just outliving your daily life is recruit people who deliver excellent customer service. So I used to do this all the time. I know the last time we were talking, we talked about, you talked about an experience at Nordstrom, and I remember just always getting really great at customer service at Nordstrom.
[00:10:18] And I hit it out my business card several times to employees at Nordstrom saying, you know, we're, I'm looking for, you know, this position. A lot of times, those were like front desk positions, um, where someone, you know, had to be friendly, had to be in a front facing role. We're answering the phones, like really needed to deliver excellent customer service from beginning to end.
[00:10:39] Um, and so I was always giving out my card to people that I just experienced a good service with, and I encouraged my staff to do the same. So our staff then also had a business card that they could write their name on. And it was something like that. The business card was something like, you know, thanks so much for, you know, uh, [00:11:00] deal, delivering excellent customer service today.
[00:11:03] We would love to have you join our team. And then, you know, they can say, you know, I, this is where I work. We're hiring right now for this particular position. You know, would you be interested in applying, just give him the card, obviously it's up to them if they want to go online and apply, but if they do, you know, they can then say so-and-so referred me.
[00:11:21] And again, that kind of goes back to that whole referral bonus. If they're actually actively out helping to recruit, that's just one more way, again, to get more people helping to contribute to the process of helping you build teams and have your own team members say like, this is someone who I think would be a good addition to our.
[00:11:41] Mm.
[00:11:42] Austin: Yeah. Okay. Love it. Got more. I've got more,
[00:11:47] Michelle: you
[00:11:47] Austin: know, I can keep going.
[00:11:50] Michelle: I think it's also great, um, on your website to have, you know, besides just obviously you're promoting your business to potential clients, it's also a great [00:12:00] way to promote yourself to potential employees. So whether that's under, you know, the career section on your website, but to have a place on there where there's like a day in the life of a spot employee, uh, you know, something where it showcases, it can just be like, oh yeah, 30 seconds, 60 seconds.
[00:12:18] One minute. Doesn't need to be a 10 minute long video. It can be a short clip of just kind of showing what it like, what it's like to work here at our spot at our salon. Um, so whether that's, you know, showing kind of the processes they're going through, what, what an opening procedure would look like, what closing looks like at the business, um, you know, just interactions that they have with guests.
[00:12:41] So people can see, like, this is what it's like to work in this business. And they can kind of get a feel from it from that video.
[00:12:51] Austin: I'm going
[00:12:52] Michelle: to steal that there was a question,
[00:12:56] Austin: the problem with that for me and my work would be, it would be mostly a [00:13:00] video of being in my own apartment and that would bore the world to tears, but in a spa, that's an amazing idea. It's a very, very cool idea. Um, and
[00:13:09] Michelle: that, and for you, I mean, you could still, you know, okay, I record podcasts.
[00:13:13] This is part of my job, you know what I mean? Like you could still show like this, you know, these are the things that I do in my, in my, in my day or what it's like for you to work from home and, and work for this company. Um, I think a lot of businesses can still do that, but yeah, definitely kind of getting into the spa.
[00:13:28] Austin: I have to say Michelle, the commute, when working from home, the commute is a nightmare. I had to walk all the way from right there. To right here. It's, it's, it's an absolute nightmare.
[00:13:44] Michelle: Luis, you're getting your steps in, right.
[00:13:46] Austin: Y'all all two steps anyway. Okay. Let's get you to you. I want to, I want to deliver the highest dollars permitted and I think we're on track to
[00:13:53] Michelle: do that.
[00:13:54] Yeah. And then kind of the last two things. So kind of, you know, what a lot of people are probably doing already, [00:14:00] LinkedIn indeed. Um, also, uh, job boards at spawn networks. Like I spa, uh, different industry, um, companies that are popular in the industry, like, uh, have job boards that you can advertise on. Um, also your local schools.
[00:14:19] So your LA local massage aesthetic cosmetology schools, you know, have job boards. Um, and then I also encourage you to go into those schools and be a speaker. I know that I always used to, they always used to reach out to me and say, we have a career day coming up. Um, we're looking for speakers to come in and.
[00:14:37] You can promote your business, but also like talk to the students about different topics. Um, so, you know, getting in there, even if, you know, even if let's say it's outside of your comfort zone, maybe as an owner or manager, or maybe you don't like speaking to groups, but maybe you again have like an esthetician or a massage therapist, someone on your team, who's comfortable speaking to groups, um, and likes to go out into the, to the [00:15:00] community, um, to help promote the business.
[00:15:01] You could, you know, send someone else instead, but it's really just a great way for you then to have that connection with the school, to know the instructors at the school, the people who run the school. So that way, you know, they can tell too, like when they've got a class of people, they'll be like, oh, this person, this person is shining above the rest.
[00:15:20] You know, that could also be an in there for them to be able to, you know, reach out to you and say, you know, I have this person who, um, even though, you know, they're just coming out of school with no experience, they're really amazing. You know, I would like to send them to you if, if you have an opening. Um, and I would always just encourage you, even if you don't have open.
[00:15:36] Always interview people. Like if someone's reaching out to you and saying, I've got this great person, interview them anyway, you may find a way to be able to fit that person into your schedule, um, in some capacity, or you never know, you never know that same day someone could be resigning. Like you just don't know what's going to happen.
[00:15:54] Um, so it's always great to interview any potential, you know, great candidates that [00:16:00] people have said. You know, even though I know you don't have an opening right now, I'd really like you to meet this person. So really just the open, um, and you know, try to fit in those, those interviews as you can. Yes. Any questions before we move on to, to interviewing?
[00:16:14] Austin: Yeah. Well, mostly a note for the audience or, uh, I guess, well, viewers and listeners can prize the audience, but in any case, Jim Collins has this book called good from good to great. And one of the ideas in the book is get the right people on the bus and the wrong people. Off the bus I can speak with, uh, or from experience.
[00:16:39] Having interviewed someone in the past where we had no role at all for anyone and after meeting her, I realized, ah, we need to make a role to get her on the bus. So I think that, uh, your point about just interview them anyway. If they've got rave reviews is, uh, an astute one. So no further
[00:16:58] questions.
[00:16:59] Michelle: Yeah.
[00:16:59] And I [00:17:00] mean, I just always found in my career, just always kind of worked out, like when I did that, when I interviewed that great person, just somewhere another, like I said before, you know, if someone's leaving, it's like a week later, someone's resigning because they're moving out of the state or something happens.
[00:17:14] And you're like, wow, that's just like works out that you then have this great person waiting in the wings or, you know, it just could be like, maybe this isn't the right time. Maybe you really can't fit them in right now. But you know, maybe six, six months from now, you can, and they really want to join your team.
[00:17:28] And it just all all works out. So then, yeah. So the next I'd like to do before we get into like the actual interview, kind of like the interview process and some things to kind of keep in mind, um, when you're preparing for interviewing people are kind of the pre-screening process. Um, when you are looking at people's resumes, really try to be unbiased.
[00:17:50] I think a lot of people look at resumes and make a lot of. Assumptions about people where maybe there's perceptions about the age of the person, um, [00:18:00] where they live, they think, okay, well that person lives too far away. So why would they want to work here? Um, or people think, oh, well, I, you know, I see that they graduated this year, so they're probably this age.
[00:18:09] They might be married with kids and, you know, if they have kids, it's going to be difficult for them to work the schedule I want. They're making all these assumptions, make no assumptions, um, do not pay attention to people's names. Do you know, be as unbiased as you can and as open as you can. Um, and really just looking at, you know, whatever it is that's important to you.
[00:18:30] Obviously, if, if it's the, do they have experience or not, um, is their experience relevant? Um, Th those things, not so much, you know, these other things that people tend to, I think pay attention to that had no bearing on whether this person's going to be a good employee or not. Um, and definitely using scripts.
[00:18:50] So I know we talked about this last time too, is if you need to have structure, um, you need to be asking everyone the same questions for the same positions and you [00:19:00] want to do phone pre-screening. You can definitely rule out most people, um, just by the phone pre-screen alone. Um, so of course, you're going to be asking things like.
[00:19:11] Their availability. You know, if you need someone to work every weekend and this person says I can not work every weekend, that is not the person for you. So don't waste their time. Don't waste your time. Um, and you know, be very direct about that. If it's like, no, I need someone who can be here every single Saturday.
[00:19:29] And they're like, well, I think I can do two Saturdays a month. If two Saturdays a month is not going to work, then that's not the right person for you. So you can really prescreen out. Um, a lot of things again, do they have the license that's needed? Um, if they don't, are they able to get it? What's the timeline for that?
[00:19:46] No. I had people who, um, didn't have a license in DC. They were licensed in Maryland or Virginia. And that process could take months. It wasn't a simple process. Could I wait months for that candidate? A [00:20:00] lot of times I could not. Um, but occasionally, you know, maybe I, maybe I could. Um, but you want to make sure yes.
[00:20:06] You know, do they have the proper school and do they have the proper license is the experience level, what I need for this position. Um, and also, so during, during that process, um, I think it's really important in the prescreening and in the actual interviewing to do what's called behavioral interviewing.
[00:20:25] So behavioral interviewing focuses on a candidates past experiences by asking candidates to provide specific examples of how they demonstrated certain behaviors, knowledge, skills, and abilities. And if you don't know what behavioral interviewing is, or you're looking for examples, there are definitely courses that you can take.
[00:20:43] And I would highly recommend that, but you can also just Google behavioral interviewing questions. If you literally are like, I don't have time to take your class. And I would like to try this process. So just kind of an example of that would be, uh, let's say it was during the phone [00:21:00] pre-screening and you want to make sure that, you know, you're trying to make sure that your employees are people that are gonna show up on time knowing that, you know, in a busy city, all kinds of crazy things can happen on a daily basis, especially in Washington, DC.
[00:21:14] Um, you know, you might get stuck with, you know, Presidents, um, motorcade going through for 20 minutes or there's protests blocking the street. I mean, it's just like every city has its challenges. Um, so you want to see like how do people handle these, these situations? So, um, an example of a behavioral interviewing question would be, uh, tell me about a time when you knew you were going to be late to work.
[00:21:37] Uh, what did you do and how did it turn out? No, be specific. So you're literally, you know, obviously like you want to see how the, they speak as well. Um, but you want to say, like, this is a very realistic situation that happens on a pretty regular basis. How are you going to make sure you get to work on time?
[00:21:54] So, you know, if, if this person, depending on how they answer, if they're like, well, you know, I always give myself, you know, an hour and a [00:22:00] half to get there, even if I know it only takes me 30 minutes. Okay. Well, that's a good answer. Um, or, you know, I, uh, you know, this is, this is what happened and I called my employer and, you know, they were able to move my first client.
[00:22:11] And as soon as I got there, I was able to take my next client. And my day was smooth after that. Um, You know, for the future, I then pay attention to when there are going to be marathons in town. So I knew about the road closures, you know, so you get some information into what's really going on and how this person operates and how they can navigate problems and find solutions to those problems.
[00:22:33] So, yes. So definitely I would use, you know, pick a couple of those to use during the pre-screening, um, as a way to, again, kind of decide who I'm going to interview or not. And, and during that, pre-screening, I don't, I let's say I have 15 people to call. I may call all 15 before I incomplete all 15 before I decide who I'm going to have come into the actual interview.
[00:22:58] So, you know, if I'm doing a [00:23:00] pre-screen I'm like, wow, this person is like, they're hitting it out of the park. Like they sound amazing. They're answering everything correctly. You know, they have everything I need. I may go ahead and set up an interview with them, but if I'm kind of on the fence, um, you know, I may wait until I've finished all my interviews to then go back and see, okay, well, out of the 15, these are the three that I think we should have come in for an interview.
[00:23:21] And then obviously call back in and set up that those in-person interviews. And then obviously you can, you know, you can do phone, you can do zoom. I think obviously, you know, in the last couple of years, people have gotten way more comfortable with using zoom, but I think at some point, obviously you need to have them come in and do that in-person interview and you look like you have a question, Austin.
[00:23:42] No questions. Okay. Um, and so, yeah, so if we want to then spend a jump into then, um, my recommendations for how to go about conducting a successful interview. Um, the first thing is. If this is possible, this isn't [00:24:00] always possible, um, to conduct the interview with yourself and one other person. So whether that's, you know, if you're the spot director, if you've got an assistant manager or you have, you know, a lead massage therapist, someone else that you can kind of bring in, or let's say, you know, I worked in a hotel spa before, so there was someone else I could bring in from a different department.
[00:24:20] Maybe there was someone in HR or even someone on an FMB team. Like there was another employee in the company I could have come in and sit with me in that interview. Um, again, using that behavioral interview process, asking the same questions. So at the end we can compare notes. Um, you know, maybe there's something they heard or interpreted differently than I did.
[00:24:40] So we can have a discussion about that afterwards. So it's not just one person's perception of the interview, but you can actually have two people, um, kind of giving, giving feedback on who they think would be the best candidate. Hm. You want me to keep it[00:25:00]
[00:25:02] and, um, and then of course, uh, depending upon the position, so let's say, um, you know, if it was a massage therapist, aesthetician, or nail technician or a hairstylist, I always had them do a practical hands-on. So, you know, the people you made it through the pre-screening. You made it through the in-person interview and now it's time to come in and do a practical.
[00:25:24] So that may mean doing, and again, if you can have this done on two people. So if I had a massage therapist come in and do a 30 minute, um, you know, try to get a 30 minute full body massage on me, it's a little difficult. So sometimes I'd have them do a full one hour, a full body massage. I would also have them come in with my lead massage therapist.
[00:25:44] Um, so again, at the end of that, we can compare notes. Um, this also is a good opportunity to see, like when this person comes in to do the practical, how are they interacting with other staff members that they might encounter? Um, if there's guests that they may encounter. Um, [00:26:00] cause I used to have them sit in.
[00:26:02] Uh, a lot of times I just was, I didn't have that much space. So when someone was waiting to, to interview, they would be in the guest lounge. So are they interacting with the guests? Are they talking with them? Um, You know, are they having a good interaction? How were they with the front desk staff? Like how, how did they treat the front desk staff?
[00:26:20] Um, or even, you know, the people, the locker room attendance, like how did they interact with them? Um, and when they're in the room actually performing the practical exam, do they seem to, you know, feel comfortable in the environment with the products, with the equipment, you know, moving around the space. Um, you know, even if it's just like taking the linens off the bed, like, do they seem to have a sense of, you know, the, the duties that are required of a technician to utilize that space, kind of, how are they moving about in the space?
[00:26:50] Um, you know, if all of a sudden there's the music. It's a really loud song comes on. Like, do they have the wherewithal to think, like we're asked where the volume knob is or something to [00:27:00] adjust, just like, how are they using the space? So again, I don't set these tests up, I wouldn't say, okay, let's make sure we create the music off, you know, 15 minutes into this treatment or, you know, drop something really loud outside the door.
[00:27:13] No I don't. But these things just naturally occur. Like there's going to be things that happen when that person is in, you know, in the spot and you know, how do they react to that? Uh, that will be a good indication that of on a day-to-day basis, how this person may, uh, handle problems that always come up.
[00:27:30] There's always going to be something that's going to happen in a day. Yeah. And, um, again, making sure you're using those behavioral interviewing questions, uh, for all the candidates. Like I said, if you can take a course great. If not, just look on Google. Um, just another example though, would be, you know, I think every.
[00:27:50] Someone on their team who is a team player. Uh, so another example would be something like, um, if you could please describe a time when you were [00:28:00] having difficulty with a fellow worker, uh, please describe the situation, like the problem, what you did, what the outcome was, you know, and try to be specific with that.
[00:28:09] So you can see, I mean, everyone's had a difficult coworker who hasn't had someone that they're working with. They're, they're not crazy about working with them, um, to be able to talk about that. And, uh, you know, maybe if it's something coming straight out of school and maybe they haven't worked before, like, you know, uh, someone at school, like someone, you know, another student that maybe you didn't click with and something happened, you know, what did you do to, in that situation and how did it turn out?
[00:28:39] Um, and kind of the, the last thing before we talk about. Things that can go wrong or things to not do. Um, if, if let's say you're hiring for, I used to do this sometimes when I was hiring for front desk position specifically, um, if I had someone who had never worked [00:29:00] in a spa or salon environment before, so, um, you know, maybe they had only been in office jobs, so they were never really like in a, um, a client facing environment.
[00:29:13] So like if they, you know, if they had worked in retail, um, you know, obviously they're, they're interacting with guests and say, I worked at maybe like a doctor's office. They were in a, you know, uh, having to interface with clients over the phone or in person. But if they were always just kind of in a back office, um, in an office job and they were never really in a position where they're talking face-to-face with clients, I would sometimes, you know, for someone who I thought, you know, this, this person.
[00:29:38] This may be a good, good role for them. They just not done something like this before, before I would actually officially hire them. Another step to that interview process would be to have them come in and be at the, at the front desk for an hour, maybe two max to kind of observe. Um, and so it was a good way again, for us to see how they interact with clients walking in the door.[00:30:00]
[00:30:00] Do they interact with them at all? Like, or are they ignoring people? Um, how, how are they interacting with the other front desk staff members? Um, when maybe a therapist comes up to the front or are they interacting with them again? If something kind of happens, um, while they're there, how are they responding to that?
[00:30:19] And of course they're not trained, they don't know your policies and procedures. Um, so they're not going to know how to handle problems per se, but what do they kind of intuitively do? How do they react? You know, I this, the fire alarm used to go off, you know what I mean? Like this is something that would happen.
[00:30:36] Like they just have either, how, how are they reacting to the situation? What, you know, what are they doing? Um, that's obviously an extreme, but you know, these things happen, floods happen, uh, things go wrong, you know, computers, freeze, um, you, you kind of have to see then, you know, what would be something that they would potentially do to remedy that situation, even if it's just how they're speaking with that [00:31:00] person that's waiting.
[00:31:01] Um, while they're trying to check out, um, because it's also, I think there's this perception of working in a spa is, oh, you know, I mean, it's like I'm running around in my robe and sandals and it's relaxing and everyone's happy, and this is a great atmosphere. It's good for them to get, get to that front desk and really kind of observe what's really going on before they jump into a role that maybe something completely different than what they expected.
[00:31:30] Austin: Yeah. Yes, yes. I
[00:31:35] Michelle: know. And like I said, so, so now to, um, talk about finding something, you know, what, what not to do. Um, so the one, I think that the number one thing that I see people making the mistake doing is hiring too quickly. So they, you know, people all of a sudden, you know, there'll be like, I lost several estheticians and massage therapists all at once.
[00:31:59] And [00:32:00] they're concerned about the loss of revenue, you know, whether they're coming from an ownership standpoint where they're like, you know, we need, we need the money to pay our bills, um, or, you know, they're reporting to someone else and they're like, I need to get my numbers. I have a budget, you know, I need to make sure we're making, making our numbers.
[00:32:17] They will sometimes, you know, bring people on just to fill a space. So, you know, it's like, they've got a room to fill and they got a chair to fill and they're like, I just need a warm body. I just need someone in here who, you know, can at least service this client. And we can, you know, get, get the revenue that we need.
[00:32:33] It's always a bad decision. It never turns out well. Um, because you know, that person can do more harm to your business than good, you know, maybe in that short term that money's coming in, but in the long-term that could be very disruptive to your entire business, to the team. Um, eventually that can be to lost income and revenue because they're not going to be routining those guests.
[00:32:57] You know, they're going to come that one time and they're not going to come back because it [00:33:00] wasn't a good experience. The person maybe doesn't know what they're doing or their customer service is terrible. Um, so, you know, I've always heard you should hire slowly and fire quickly. Um, I think you still, you know, there's still processes to follow.
[00:33:14] To fire people in the correct way. Um, but I definitely think that when it comes to the speed, you really want to take your time and make sure you're picking the right people for your team.
[00:33:25] Austin: Irene to me seems like driving through the turns and twisties, the way to lose a race is to punch the gas pedal in the middle of the night of your return and races are always won in the turns.
[00:33:41] So what do you do in a turn? Well, if you're a motorcycle advocate and you ride motorcycles, like I used to back when I was cool. Uh, you always want to make sure you're entering the turn at the speed you plan to, um, be at when you're in the apex of the turn. [00:34:00] So in other words, you're not breaking in the turn.
[00:34:02] You're not speeding up you. I mean, technically do, as you're hitting the apex and you're exiting to turn, but you don't. Throttle up in a turn because you will wreck always. And in my experience to reaffirm your point, um, I have made a couple hiring decisions where I hired two quick. I kinda knew they weren't right, but we had a need and I didn't want to wait.
[00:34:25] And I was like, well, nah, it is personal. Do. And then now tragic unit with skating reviews, in the case of smaller skating reviews, they might blow up part of the business. You lose time in training them. You lose time in training and onboarding and ramping and the rest of it. Uh, so you're, you're better off go slow.
[00:34:51] In fact, I think the, the military has a perfect saying here, which is that slow, smooth and smooth is fast
[00:34:59] Michelle: [00:35:00] like that. But yeah. You, I mean, like I said, the amount of time and money that goes into training can be extensive. I mean, I've worked places before where like the aestheticians trained for four weeks full time before they came on board then slash therapists was like three weeks full-time so yeah, you're spending, you know, you're, you're paying someone to, uh, train them and then you're paying them to be there, to train.
[00:35:21] So it's like, maybe you're pulling that technician, you know, that's training them off their books. So it's like, you're losing revenue there so they can change the person yet. It's just, I just can't stress enough that really should like, wait for it. I understand. Like I get it people panic. They're like, oh my God, I'm going to be losing this money.
[00:35:39] But in the long run, it is more of a loss when you, when you move too quickly. So, and then I think the other thing kind of the last mistake that I see people doing on a regular basis is hiring people that they love. So it's like, oh, I have things in common with this person. This person seems fun. You know, [00:36:00] like I would like to hang out with this person, but are they the right fit for this job in this environment?
[00:36:06] Um, you know, there are plenty of people who, um, I would love to hang out with outside of work, but they were terrible. And like, they were, they were a lot of fun and I'm like, oh, like of all we clicked really well, but like on a business level, I'm like, oh no, no. So it's, it's really trying to make sure, like, is this person the right fit?
[00:36:27] Did they, you know, do they get great examples? Um, are they communicating well? Um, it's not just, you know, oh, I would love to like, go have a beer with that bar, you know, whatever that may
[00:36:38] Austin: be and, and do not make the mistake of hiring your friends or family.
[00:36:45] Michelle: Yeah. And it's, you know, it can get tough. I'm just trying to think in the past, like, I, I never hired.
[00:36:53] You know, my friends or family, but people, you know, again, when you've got it set up where [00:37:00] you're encouraging your employees to refer people, you know, for, for other positions, um, do you hire people from the same friend group, family group? I have, uh, and it luckily worked out. Okay. Like there were times when my front desk staff maybe, uh, their cousin or, you know, it was usually, it wasn't like a sister.
[00:37:23] It wasn't that close. Like maybe he's a little bit more technical than maybe they were really close with their cousin, but, um, you know, it was someone that they socialize with. Um, and. Yeah. It's not always the best situation when you got them working the same shift. I think if you're going to do something like that, you can have them work opposite shifts, but it can also then get tricky too.
[00:37:44] If you've got several people from the same family or friend group working for you and they become friends once they start working together. But, um, let's say there's a wedding. Okay. Well, there goes your whole front desk staff. Cause they're all, you know, they all want to go to the sweating now. So it's [00:38:00] like, now you're shutting your business down.
[00:38:02] Uh, actually you're, you're, you're covering the front desk because, um, what you may have to do sometimes because of course, you know, they're, they're all gonna go to the same event. Cause they're all from the same family or friend group, but yes, if you don't want them obviously bringing personal issues to work and then, you know, they're working right next to each other at the front desk and they're mad at each other for something that happened at home.
[00:38:22] So yeah, it's not, it's not ideal. I wouldn't look, you know, seek that out, but, um, If you do have your employees referring people, there's obviously the potential that they might be referring people who are family or friends, and you have to see if that will work for your environment. Yeah.
[00:38:40] Austin: Yeah. I, I've never heard of anybody successfully hiring a family member for sure.
[00:38:46] A friend never the front always tries to exploit the, the hiring individual and it always ends in a lost friend in my.
[00:38:59] Michelle: Yeah, [00:39:00] it's not, not ideal. Um, I, you know, I know, I know for some people it's worked out, but it's not, I wouldn't recommend it. I wouldn't seek that situation out for sure. Um, and then kind of the, so the last section that I have for today, um, is then your, so you've got people there you're interviewing, you've done your interviews, you know, what, what were kind of some of the, some of the things that during that interview process, you should be looking for, what would be the right people?
[00:39:26] Um, again, this is something we discussed last time, but really hiring for personality training for scale. So, you know, obviously they have to meet minimum requirements. You know, they have to have the proper license, you know, if you need them to have a certain number of months or a year, Experience, you want to make sure that, that they have that, but, um, are there things that maybe this person still maybe needs to develop or there's things that we can teach them?
[00:39:50] Like maybe they don't do prenatal massage or hot stone massage, but that's something simple that one of our team members can, can simply train them to do. [00:40:00] Um, or, you know, there may, there may be something that they're, they have a weakness in whether it's, um, selling products, you know, how to educate properly, properly, educate the clients to be able to sell products to them.
[00:40:12] You know, whatever that particular skill is that they seem weekend. Is this something that we can invest time into training them? Um, because they have this amazing personality and I think they would be a really great team member. So that would be the first thing really, to look out for
[00:40:27] Austin: T tell me about this personality stuff, because my.
[00:40:32] The head goes to, oh, only higher IST JS or NFPS. So the Myers-Briggs 16 personality types. Um, so when you say personality, unpack that, what does that mean specifically in
[00:40:44] Michelle: your head? Yeah. So what I'm not thinking specifics to do with any type of how they score it on, on a personality test, I'm talking about, um, do they communicate well?
[00:40:54] Can they speak well? Do they make eye contact? How was their handshake? [00:41:00] Are they friendly? Um, do they seem like a positive person? And again, from your behavioral interviewing, you can get kind of an idea for how this person handles situations and interactions with guests or interactions, uh, with other team members, again, by getting down to those questions of, you know, thing, I would always use the example of, um, If you have a client coming in and realize it's their 20th wedding anniversary, um, well, you know, what, what would you, what would be something that you would do in that situation or, or going back to more from a behavioral interview, question standpoint, going back to, okay.
[00:41:44] Um, tell me about a time that you had a guest coming in and there was a special occasion. What, you know, what was something you did for them and how did that turn out? So if that person's like, oh, I've never done anything special for our guests. I don't, I don't pay attention to their birthdays. I don't know when their anniversaries [00:42:00] are.
[00:42:00] Um, yeah, I don't, I don't really know those things about my clients. Okay. Well, they're probably not engaging them in conversation, especially if it's like a hairstylist, they have time to really talk to that, talk to that client, get to know them. And naturally people are going to bring things up like that.
[00:42:17] Especially if the client is comfortable with. They're going to talk about things of a personal nature. People treat their massage therapist, their esthetician, their hairstylist, like their therapist. So they're going to share it, share those things with you. Um, so that kind of stands out to me if you don't, even if you've never done anything special, are you, did you really connect with your guests in the past?
[00:42:40] Like, are you making a personal connection? Um, and why aren't you doing anything for them? Why are you not acknowledging that? And again, if it's like, oh, well my, where I worked, you didn't allow us to do that. They didn't allow you to write like a note, a note card to that person. Like there's so many things you can do that are [00:43:00] inexpensive and just like acknowledge the guests, um, and make them feel comfortable.
[00:43:03] So again, using those behavioral interview questions to dig a little bit deeper about their personality, not, not giving them the Myers-Briggs. Yeah, fair
[00:43:14] Austin: enough. And the reason I ask is I think in particular, my domain of selling, there are certain personality types that are just not well-suited to succeed in selling.
[00:43:26] And that's the same thing with, I mean, any, well, I don't know about any career, um, but I wonder there's some place where some sort of behavioral or not behavioral screening, um, with personality types in mind, because, you know, for example, I keep harping on the Myers-Briggs thing, but if you look at the Myers-Briggs personality profiles for any of them, you'll typically find if not all of them, I believe they'll have a section on our careers, careers to [00:44:00] avoid.
[00:44:01] Uh, like for me, don't become a software engineer and I tried to do it anyway. And sure enough, with the. Eight weeks of the, uh, the software bootcamp. I realized, oh my God, I'm going to throw myself from a very tall bridge if I don't get out of this. Um, so I wonder if there's something there, but it sounds like maybe not.
[00:44:26] Michelle: It's funny, you mentioned that. So like, I was just thinking back to like so long ago in high school, and you're taking these like career placement tests and like you said, it would tell you like what you did good at or what you should focus on. And. I'm pretty sure it told me I should be like a social worker, which I kind of, I get that.
[00:44:45] It makes sense. I did go to school. I did end up going to school for psychology and thought that was the path I was going to go down and decided no. And you know, I do, I have a nutrition and wellness coach as well. So I do love coaching people and working one-on-one with people. So I get that, but I'm also really good at [00:45:00] running businesses and it definitely didn't speak to my, anything to do with, you know, finance or, you know, it didn't direct me in that direction.
[00:45:08] So I don't know, you know, I'm sure there's obviously science behind it. Um, do you need to go to those, um, extreme so to speak? I don't think you need to, but if you want to have your potential applicants do that, I'm sure there are programs that you can have them go online and complete. Um, because I definitely have worked for corporations who utilize.
[00:45:33] Program similar to that. I don't, I don't know specifically which one it was, but, um, yeah, they did kind of make people can complete these online surveys to see if it's someone we should move forward with. Yeah. And then, you know, during that interview, um, were they dressed for the part, like, did they kind of understand the brand and the culture before they walked in the [00:46:00] door?
[00:46:00] So like every business kind of has a different environment, like, is this person gonna fit in? Well with the environment that we have here, you know, is this. You know, a very liberal environment, this person seems super conservative and maybe this is not the right environment for that, or vice versa where severe conservative environment.
[00:46:20] And I don't know if this person's going to fit in well with the clientele that we have coming in. Um, but really just does it seem like they had an understanding of what they were walking into and of course, it's good grooming. Do they smell it? Are they dressed well, as you know, is their hair, you know, I mean, all of these good hygiene, uh, you know, you think it's common sense.
[00:46:43] Um, but you know, you want to make sure that they had a sense for, you know, they were prepared for this interview, um, and put some thought into, you know, making a good experience because even though you may be having this person wear a uniform. Yeah. [00:47:00] Is there, what are their fingernails like? Like is this, especially if this is a role, but this person is touching people.
[00:47:06] I mean, um, they have to have, you know, extra good hygiene and there's usually policies and procedures to do with, you know, if you're, whether you're a massage therapist, aesthetician, especially even nail technician, you know, the length of your fingernails, whether you can have, you know, Polish on or not like things like just to make, you know, from your touching, that's going to affect the treatment.
[00:47:25] If this person had very long fingernails, if they're not willing to, you know, shorten their fingernails, that's going to be disruptive to the massage service. So these are things you wouldn't even necessarily think about it because no one's ever mentioned that to you. Um, you know, you may not realize it can, why can't where my, like, you know, three inch.
[00:47:45] Fingernail. Uh, I don't know. It's so funny. I have natural nails. I'm like, I can't remember that any like extension on your nails, like that's not something you'd be able to do while you're, you're working on a guest. So just, you know, does it, does it look like this is something that, um, and, and you can question, obviously, if [00:48:00] someone came in for an interview and they got their nails done specifically for the interview, but maybe they don't wear their nails like that on a day-to-day basis.
[00:48:07] And they understand that when they're actually performing hands-on treatments, that's not something they'd be able to do. So, you know, just all it's paying attention to all of those different things to see is this going to be the right fit? Um, and then I always say, if you are on time, you are late. If that interview is at noon and you walked right through the door at noon, You're late.
[00:48:30] It did that candidate should be showing up at least a few minutes early. You know, if not, I know I always arrived way early and I sat in my car, um, and, and, you know, not to be a weirdo or creep, and then I'd walk in rubbed up 15 minutes before my interview would start. Uh, but making sure, you know, you're not, you want to be able to walk into that interview and, you know, relax, get settled in.
[00:48:51] Maybe you need to go use the restroom. Um, so, you know, I'm paying attention. Like, did this person just come flying through the door? You know, and you know, my front desk staff is calling me and [00:49:00] say, yeah, they, they just, you know, they just walked in and they seem kind of flustered or, um, or, you know, they'll, they'll let me know, obviously, yes, this person is riding like, okay.
[00:49:07] Yep. They showed up, you know, 15 minutes before. But I think also just, you know, that's to be expected if someone is showing up late for an interview, again, outside of some extenuating circumstances. And if there was, did they reach out and say, you know, like, Stuck in this situation, you know, on such and such street and the road is blocked, you know, and I, I, I can't move.
[00:49:28] Um, it's that up to you, obviously, if you want to give that person a chance or an opportunity, most of the time, my experience was if, if someone did show up late for an interview and I hired them, they're going to show up late for work. Uh, whether that's, they're just not giving themselves the proper time to plan for the unexpected, that always seems to happen.
[00:49:46] Um, yeah. Or if they're, I mean, people that are just people that are late, they're just always going to be late. There's no fixing or changing those people. And, you know, it's like everyone has that friend or family member that, you know, if the birthday [00:50:00] parties at three, they tell them the birthday parties at two, because they know they're always going to be an hour late.
[00:50:04] Like you lie to that person because you know, you can't change them. That is the core of who they are. Um, so yeah, so I always very much pay attention to, uh, did this person arrive before the interview was scheduled to start? What are your thoughts on that?
[00:50:21] Austin: I'm having flashbacks of the air force. You're on time.
[00:50:24] You're late. That was one of the things they always said. So you would always need to be there 15 minutes early. Uh, but I'm also conflicted because on the one hand, that is a very American cultural idea. Um, and I would say recently just got back from Spain in Barcelona specifically. Uh, but that would be a lie because I was in 2020.
[00:50:43] So it wasn't quite just recently, but they have a very different view of time. Uh, For the purposes of American cultural, uh, domains, namely work. I completely agree. You should be early. And for your own sake, [00:51:00] frankly, it's not just about, um, this obsession with, uh, what would you call it? Gary V ism hustle harder.
[00:51:09] We're 30 hours a day. It's more, you know, especially with an interview where you have no room for error and you don't want to position yourself to be a, say, victim of a flat tire, or like, um, to me it just screams. You're not treating the interview seriously, if you're showing up on time, because you, you expose yourself to the possibility of being late.
[00:51:36] And if it's something important, like your wedding. Or a funeral or, you know, your, your mom's birthday party, you don't sh well, maybe your mother's mushed up or not show up, but you would treat a seriously, you would, you would go earlier. So I think, um, it's a signal or a shortcut shorthand, whatever for how they're [00:52:00] treating the interview.
[00:52:02] The challenge though is, you know, just speaking to, uh, my past guest mirror on his challenge is hiring as of today. And he, I think he said he spent last month, $4,000 on indeed. He got maybe three candidates that worth anything. Half of them didn't show up. Um, and the other 0.5 that did show up were they were just, they were terrible.
[00:52:31] They didn't. They didn't show up early. They didn't treat it seriously. And so it forces the employer or the hiring agent or whatever staff member to, to become needy. And so I think this comes full circle back to the idea of going slow to go fast or slow is smooth and smooth is fast or not hiring fast rather, uh, which begs the upstream question of what are you doing to make sure that you're not in a position of need as an [00:53:00] employer.
[00:53:00] So managing your cash flows and what have you. Um, all of this is very, very intertwined, but you know, in an ideal perfect world, the candidate shows up early and they're prepared. They're not storming and flustered, you know, unless God forbid. I guess I would allow it as the hiring manager for X company, let's say, or Y company, whatever, if they told me, Hey, sorry, I'm late.
[00:53:24] My house caught on fire. Uh, my dog was thrown off a bridge and my grandma just died. And oh, by the way, I was, uh, in a, uh, collision and my car was totaled, but I was able to hobble here, um, on one leg with my broken femur. Hopefully that's okay with you that I'm late. Okay. Well, that's fine. But in any other circumstance sort of that, um, if they're, if they're showing up on the nose, when the start time is it's, it's, it's, it's a telltale sign.
[00:53:52] The probably not the best candidate. Yeah.
[00:53:56] Michelle: And then really the kind of the last thing I have in making sure that she's in the right [00:54:00] people is, I think it's really. That you're hiring people who are flexible. Um, so open to learning new things or new ways of doing things, especially like you're hiring someone who has tons of years experience like 20, 30 years they've been doing this role.
[00:54:17] Um, you know, people think they know everything, you know, maybe they will be less open to new policies, procedures, ways of doing things. So, um, again, using those behavioral interviewing questions. So, you know, one that I would always use is, you know, if you could please describe a time when a company you're working for change to policy procedure, what did you do?
[00:54:39] And what was the outcome? So like everyone's work site, especially if you've worked someplace, you know, you've been in the industry for a really long time and you've held the position for awhile companies, you know, have new ways of doing things. They bring on new products, new equipment, the price prices changed.
[00:54:55] Maybe their cancellation policy changes. There's always going to be something [00:55:00] new, like a new way of cleaning something or, you know, a new product line that we're using and you have to do things differently. Um, there's all, there's always going to be something. So it's like, how did they adapt to that change?
[00:55:10] Were they a champion for that change? Um, because you, you want people who are going to be champions of change and open to it. You know, some people are really fearful and, and get really scared of, you know, anything that's out that, that, that could change in the near future. And in order to grow and evolve, you have to change.
[00:55:28] So you want people on board with your business that are open to growth that are open to new ways of doing things that can just, you know, help you take things to the new level. Um, so, so that's really, that kind of sums it up for me. I mean, I'm sure there's tons of other things, but those are kind of the top things that I really look for to make sure that in that process, that I'm choosing the right people.
[00:55:54] Austin: The last remark you made has me thinking of tribes, the book by, [00:56:00] uh, Seth Godin. I think it's the most recent piece and the whole book is largely oriented around why I think it's actually the subtitle of the book is why we need you to lead or something to that effect. And it speaks to, or the book speaks to, to some degree, the fact that many, many people operate from a place.
[00:56:23] The position of fear. So they don't take risks. They don't turn to their boss and say, Hey, I think this is a very silly idea. Or dare I say, stupid or idiotic idea. Here's why you're not an idiot to be clear, but this idea, I don't think makes sense. Here's why, what if we were to try this? So I'm curious if you have thoughts on if that is something that is important to look out for.
[00:56:45] Um, and maybe you don't care to have that when you're hiring a therapist or a esthetician or cosmetologist, or what have you always looking for that? You're always looking for that. Okay. So you're looking for innovators and I've found that it's, [00:57:00] it's tricky to hire for, because on the one hand, if you have someone that is always filled with good ideas, but they're, so untactful in how they deliver the contrarian idea.
[00:57:10] So an example that Michelle, that's a stupid, stupid idea. You're a moron. I can't believe you would ever think of that. We should never do that. In fact, you should quit. And promote me. Here's the idea you should do versus, Hey Michelle, I can see where you're coming from with that idea actually does make a lot of sense at first glance, but I'm wondering what would happen if we did this instead?
[00:57:34] Both are accomplishing the same outcome. Well, no, they're not because the first in the former case, you're going to piss your boss off and they're going to fire you. But on the second or in the latter case, you're going to be received with rave reviews. So how do you discern that? How do you sniff that out?
[00:57:54] Because it's in, in well, selling is like, well, I guess we all sell regardless of the position that you have restitution, [00:58:00] massage, service, whatever, but how do you, how do you suss that out? Someone's aptitude. For being able to deliver contrarian ideas in a way that's tactful, and frankly, won't piss you off.
[00:58:12] So like almost a hedge against your own ego, which we should have. But of course we all have, are there ways that you think about that? Yeah.
[00:58:19] Michelle: I don't know if this totally answers the question, but like, I always used to encourage people like come to me with problems, but also coming to me with a couple of solutions, like, what are some ways you think we should fix this?
[00:58:28] Like where we may have different ways of how we want to fix the problem. But if there's something going on in the workplace that you see, what would you do to fix it? Like, what do you think we should do to fix it? Like what, what would be something different we could be doing? So, I mean, I like people obviously, like people have to be open to direction and change.
[00:58:46] It's not always going to go the way that they want it to go. So you want people that have that flexibility, but I also. As a spot director as an owner, um, needs to be flexible. I need to be open to suggestions [00:59:00] and I've definitely found. So when you have someone on your team and they're like very innovative, and if the ownership or management is not.
[00:59:08] That person's going to leave you and they're going to open up their own business. And that could be a great thing. Like I was encouraged people, you know, if you want to, if you want to be an owner, you should, you should do that. You know, I always tried to find out what people were super passionate about and I'm not going to hold people back if they're running their own business, um, is the best outcome.
[00:59:26] You know what I mean? That they should do that. I had many people over the years that, that worked for me for many, many years and went on and still, you know, have their own, um, hair salon spa. Like, that's great. Like you, you set the foundation, um, and it's amazing to see like what they were able to go and achieve.
[00:59:42] Um, so yeah, it's like, you want that, that good combination of someone who's flexible, who's innovative. So, um, they have to understand, obviously, It's not always going to be, you know, everything that they come up with, every solution or new idea won't be able to be implemented, but beat, you know, we talked about this a lot in our last [01:00:00] podcast, too.
[01:00:00] Just really being open to that. Like that's how you're going to have happy employees is really being listening to them genuinely, um, be open to ideas they have, because they may have some really amazing, a lot of things that I implemented over the years were not my ideas. Um, those are things that other people came up with.
[01:00:16] Um, cause they were in the room, you know, with the client day in and day out and could see the opportunity.
[01:00:24] Austin: All art is theft. I don't know where I heard that damn quote, but it does have me thinking. Yeah. Well you could argue that if the law of conservation of mass, uh, was that the second law of thermodynamics?
[01:00:40] Maybe no, I'm, I'm a philosophy major, not a physics major, but in any case, Everything that is, was, and will always be, it's just a rearrangement of existing particles in a literal sense, same with ideas. So your staff probably have ideas that are better than you. And by the way, what are you doing? Hiring [01:01:00] staff that are not smarter than you?
[01:01:02] Yeah. That's, that's a huge mistake. How about you? Go look for people that make you look bold. They'll make you look dumb, but you subconsciously or intuitively feel dumb around because that's why you hire them. I think, oh God, is that there's an interview with Steve jobs. And of course, I'm going to butcher the details here, but it's something like, I forget what he said verbatim, but was something to that effect.
[01:01:25] I hired you to tell me what to do here. So why it's not like what function you serve otherwise, but you shouldn't be afraid to hire people that are smarter than you because how do you grow your enterprise? You're not, you are literally incapable of doing that. In fact, there's a, another story that comes to mind of Henry Ford being interviewed on, I think he was interviewed.
[01:01:50] He must've yeah, he was, of course he's been interviewed and the interviewer I'm gonna, I'm gonna hack this story together. So bear with me, but it conveys the idea. The interviewer says, well, [01:02:00] Henry, how does the cylinder combustion, uh, physics of your engine work? And Henry turns to the interviewer and says, I don't know.
[01:02:07] I pay a guy to know that we'll ask him exactly Charlie, get it here. That's it. This guy's question is silly, silly question. This heckler, this fan boy of the horse and buggy who rails against the idea of the automobile. Anyway, you should always hire people smarter than you and not be afraid to do that.
[01:02:25] And if you are, you have a problem. And the problem is E G. Yes.
[01:02:32] Michelle: You want people who, I mean, of course, like who are passionate about what they do, they're the expert in their field and they're just, they want to constantly learn about whatever imperfect, perfect their craft. Um, I was never a massage therapist.
[01:02:43] I was never an institution. I was never a hairstylist. I was never a nail technician. So yeah, I that's, that's not my skillset. Um, I hire people who are really, really good at that and you know, really love to do those things. So. Absolutely.
[01:02:56] Austin: Yeah. Well, what closing thoughts, if [01:03:00] any, would you want to leave the audience?
[01:03:03] Well,
[01:03:04] Michelle: I, I, well, I hope that a mirror is able to come back and watch this and maybe, maybe find some things from the first section. I really hope that even if you know, anyone watching this name, um, can pull a few key pieces out of this. Um, you have to pick, what's going to work best for your business. Um, but you know, stepping outside the box, trying something you haven't tried before, you know, if indeed, if you're spending $4,000 a month on indeed and it's trash, you've got to try something different, you know, it's like, what do they say?
[01:03:34] Like when you keep doing the same thing and expecting different results, uh, crazy. Yeah. So you have to try new things. I would try multiple things. Um, but just, you know, just pick one, pick one thing maybe from, um, you know, a different way of trying to recruit people. So whether that's, you know, reaching out to the schools in your area, being like, Hey, I would love to come in and speak to your students.[01:04:00]
[01:04:00] You know, um, or again, having said, looking at your schedule and seeing like, when can we do a job fair? When can we do an open house, uh, starting create that referral program, you know, whatever, just take one thing that you haven't done before and try it out. Um, you don't have to spend $4,000 trying, you know, um, some of these things don't cost any money to try out.
[01:04:22] Um, you know, those referral cards were pretty cheap to print out, you know, going and speaking out of school, obviously, you know, take some time, but you know, you can try to do it maybe on a day that is a slow day for you or, um, on your off day, whatever you can do to, to, you know, take that 30 minutes an hour to go and do that.
[01:04:43] But just to, you know, try one thing. And again, I think behavioral interviewing, um, has helped me tremendously over the years. I think the unbiased and fair and the, uh, pick the right people and last but not least. Take your time, take your time and make sure that [01:05:00] you are hiring the right people for the right reasons.
[01:05:02] And, um, I think that, you know, that has helped me over the years to build really successful teams.
[01:05:10] Austin: Love it. Well, pretend I am a spa director and I'm having challenges with my hiring or anything else within my spa. And I want to connect with you how and where.
[01:05:28] Michelle: Yes, the best way to reach me is on my website, which is infinite wellness consulting.com.
[01:05:36] And anyone can go on there and book a free consult. So, you know, whether you're a director or manager of. Uh, technician someone who maybe is looking to get into the industry either as a technician or owner or director, um, go ahead and book that free consult with me. We will chat and, uh, see how I can assist you,
[01:05:58] Austin: Michelle for president [01:06:00] 2024.
[01:06:00] You have my vote. Yeah.
[01:06:02] Michelle: Thank you. I don't think that I want that job, but
[01:06:09] Austin: yeah, I know. I don't know why anyone would. It seems like an absolute nightmare. Absolute nightmare. So, awesome. Well, I appreciate you doing this as usual and who knows? You might have around three in the coming months. So thanks for being on again.
[01:06:23] Michelle: I'm ready for it.
[01:06:25] Austin: Awesome. We'll talk soon. All right. Bye-bye bye-bye.