Make words go now, I'll tell me a good idea. Yeah, Nick, the logical kiro Hus can't except that here we are, it's mid June, and this is glock culture. I'm John Podhorn's in New York. Elsewhere in New York, Rob Long, Hi, Rob Hi John? How are you? I am well? And off in the wilds of Houston, Texas. Jonah Goldberg, Hi, Jonah John, how are you? I am?
I am well. I am sitting here on the verge of apparently not seeing Donald Trump frog marched into into the courtroom because in Miami, because there will be no video of him in the courtroom, on the way of the courtroom, being handcoffed, being mugshott at, being fingerprinted right, or anything like that, which I suppose is all to the good. But I am very much looking forward to tonight when Trump will appear and give a speech about
the torn really looking forward to it. Here's why I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to seeing whether this dsiast can somehow himself can manipulate it, can manipulate his fans through the oh Man, through the manipulation of whatever. This is one of those you know what this is, This is exactly. This is one of those um uh streaming service shows that has like ninety seven episodes, and I watched two of them and I'm done. I mean, I get it, I get it, I get the whole thing,
I get all the ability. No, actually no. Episode seventeen is very interesting because they take it diversion and one characters as a dream. Like I'm done, I'm so, I don't want to. I just I'm just as pure theater. I'm bored, and I'm bored. I'm bored of like worrying about it, and I'm bored of thinking about when you I just don't. I just am not. I know, I know exactly where it's part of my first of all Bravo and eclesiast Bravo, don't encourage it one point on
the board. H m. No, It's like, you know, I got kind of tired of Tony Blair after a while. But like when you listen to Tony Blair, when you listen to actual good orators, you know, or rhetoricicians, you're like, oh, I like what he did there, Oh oh that's interesting, or you know, it can sustain you.
But there is Trump's gonna literally say nothing new that is clever or interesting, except I mean except if you define interesting, is something dumber or more abbornt or you know, it's but it's otherwise it's the same sort of It was a perfect phone call. It was you know the Joe boxes, you know box Oaks, box Oaks. It's just it's exhausting. Okay, here's where here's where are you guys. You guys are total analogs to the people who
are gonna win Trump the nomination. Here's here's why you're saying. I've heard it all before, and so are they. So what they're saying is they're just all they do is coming after him, and they're coming after him. So there's guy in Manhattan's coming after them. This guy Jack Smith is coming out. What about Hillary? What about Biden? What about Hunter? What about the boxes? What about the garage? Kevin McCarthy, the House speaker, said, at least the bathroom has a lock on it, but Biden's
garage the door goes up and down all the time. UM, garage stores have locks on them. That this morning on CNN too, he was like, yeah, there's there's thirty seven bathrooms at Marlago and bathrooms locks. I don't tell me like this wasn't a you know, adn't pick the lock of a bathroom from the inside. No one locks a bathroom from the outside anyway. I can also pick a lot. I've had to pick my own bathroom lock when something happened. You know, it's like, thanks very much,
But garage garages are locked when they're down. You need a special But they're nicer bathrooms too, like that, Oh, that's like the worst one. I mean, they definition should be like, well, we don't even use it as a bathroom. It's like, obviously, look at it. The chower curtain. Come on, expst to be a high level bathroom has a chandelier in it. Well, here's what I thought was. So they all have chandeliers in them, all thirty seven bathrooms, I think, And I
understand what all you're saying, just that I'm so bored of it. And I'm at this point I'm like, just let him run, Just give him the nominations and get the nomination. Let's gonna be president. I don't care. I really don't care. It's the president anyway. Anyway, I don't I politans boring. I want to talk about the shower curtain, okay, And I also want to talk about and how like low rented is. It's such a weird, trumpy thing, which is like the chandelier that's kind of
cheap. It's like broke Liberacci. That's how I would that's the the aesthetic. And then there's the toilet. You know, anybody else starts the toilet, please please please please dilate upon the toilet. Well, so don't we that was what she said. It's uh, it's super low. Mm hmm. It's super low. Ye. It's like it's like a kid, like a like like No, I think it's like I don't think so. I
think it's just because there are there you it I'm low. Now for some people, the kind of people who may spend to not eat enough of not go to the salad bar enough at mar Laga and you kind of had to be in a squat. I think that's what that is. Well deficatory expediter. Can we just say that Rob that by the way, that was my
stage name for twenty five years. I think that Rob is uniquely well positioned to discuss this matter because as fans of Rob No he loves actually imported a fancy toilet from somewhere, from from somewhere, installed it in his house from Japan. I love Japanese toilet Japan. Yeah. Well, and so so you have every right to your snobbery about Trump's I think it's Emperor Herohito. It's Emperor Herahito had said after Pearl Harbor, and you know we'll take over.
I will be the Emperor of United States, and you will be my subjects. That I will be your living emperor God. But you'll also each one of you we'll get I'm not trying to do the accent, but I'm kind of just you're trying to evoke a kind of aid. Each one of you will get a total washlet toilet. I'd be worth it because be like, Okay, that's it's over. They win. Yeah, and the exactly right. Okay, so he's got a chandelier and a very low toilet,
which means presumably that you know the shadow. You're actually sitting there on the toilet, looking and looking at your shadow. Well, you're not like you're trying, You're right down. You're looking at documents laying out Iran's nuclear program. Exactly right. There's always something to read in that toilet right, listen, you know, I mean I often do wordle you know, yeah, I hear you on the can So if I need to know, you know,
the bunker is you know as it were? Uh, all right, there's no part where you just can't say and so to speaker as it were here or that's what she said, that every sentence could just end with that as a matter. Yeah, did we already talk about this? Forget it? We go ahead with your phone? What wordle? Yeah? I shouldn't be doing wordle on my phone in the bathroom. Well I know, look you're in there reading Simonon in French in the bathroom, understand, So I
see where our levels are are are you know just a phone? The phone is I think Rob is making a hygiene point. The phone is not the phone? Really? How do you do that with a with a hammer, as we know from Millar, with like a claw? So I are do we now have to say, just as a matter of course in our pursuit of honest discussion about Trump and the indictment, that yes, Hillary also should have been charged? Is that now the necessary we now have to say that,
right, Hillary should have been charged. I think you should need to say it in front of people who say, what about Hillary, right, and then you know, hopefully you move on to the locking mechanisms on bathrooms. But like Hillary Clinton lost the presidential election in twenty sixteen largely as a
result of her behavior. People can say it's Coomy's fault whatever her behavior, right with those emails, in relation to how seriously she took, the security breach that she was at, the reopening of the case and all of that. She lost a presidential election, was humiliated using to the worst candidate and the most in you know, the most unqualified and morally unjustified candidate in the history of the presidency. And people are still saying she should have been locked
up. She went through a public death, like I'm sorry, like I know as she suffered to be in jail, but her leave her to heaven, like that's what happened to her was pretty pretty bad, yep. And she summoned upon herself and it happened, and Coomy misbehaved in every possible way
and should be you know, driven out a polite conversation. But I do think in some novelistic sense, you have to sort of reckon with the fact that she has to wake up every morning and and drive from her mind the fact that she had this private email server, that somebody suggested that she did what she did with it, that she said what with a cloth, that she had that press conference, and that she employed beddon uh and all of those things, and she get away from that, and for the rest I
thought it was a abideen whatever rather than um um wade back and get rather than to strap into the way back machine on this, I think like we can settle a lot of this by just pointing out Hillary's political instincts are so bad and so self serving and so self indulgent that amidst this indictment crap, she tweeted out a tweet about her but her emails swag right, Like she took a moment to gloat about her email scandal, and like either she doesn't
care that that is going to force lots of Republicans psychologically like to to rally around Trump, or it's going to invite all sorts of new rounds of scorn that she presumably doesn't want, all because she thinks her fan service is more important than an out. I mean, like of all the people to sit out a few plays during all of this. Hillary Clinton is at the top
of the list. Who what you say is so true that goes beyond any there's no capacity even to respond, Like I can't imagine the one reason that Merrick Garland, the Attorney General, would have had to say to Jack Smith, I'm sorry, we cannot bring this indictment. You got this tape. It's unbelievable, he says, I did it. You know you've got this. You gottah, you gotta. We have his lawyer saying you should destroy You know, why don't you go back to your hotel room and destroy the
documents? You got all this stuff. But you know, Jim Comey, he established this president where she's running for president, and you know he could have charged her, but he didn't. And I can't do this to the political system. And yeah, she should shut her mouth because like they they took, they they went, they went at Trump, which is what she
presumably would want. Why doesn't she just make it as easy as possible for Trump to maybe become president despite this indictment, right by involving herself in this, as opposed to staying totally silent, Like why does she want to give ammunition to people who are making the one argument that Trump has in in his favor, which is that he is being selectively prosecuted and that the other case in which this happened to a Democratic candidate for president, the person was not
prosecuted, and he is being prosecuted. Why would she do that for the same reason that she lost the election? Because she's she's a ten eared moron and I'm sick. I don't care. She can, she can give the graduation speech at Wellesley from now until the cows come home. She has no emotional intelligence, she has no ability to reach out. She has no idea what she looks like or feel or is what she does and the effect it has on people. Yeah, I want to change the channel. Okay,
change the channel. Nobody all of these people right like it's like, I just feel like it's so old. Who have to go away? Now? It's so boring. I want talking toomers on this post. By the way, I am ros not a boomer. I am I am the last boomer, like I'm gen X for your for your information, I'm the year the gen X began. I began I began with gen X. I am imbody. When I'm done, it's all over. It I'm the meaty part of
the gen next curve, go away. They won't. Now, Biden is not exactly a boomer, designing three years, but he was born three years before before the end of the war, right right, I think so? Uh so he's born in forty two, so he's not a boomer or forty three anyway one or the other. But he's pretty close to being a boomer, right. And then you have Yillery and you have Trump, and you have they won't go away, go away? Go in, go go to Boca, go have an early bird meal? Like what is wrong with you?
People? Get out beat it speaking obedient, That's what she said. But you know who? I don't want to go away? Who? Who is going away? Who? Pat say? Check? Oh? Pat say Jack? He's retiring? Is he really? Forty one years? Forty he's been he's been doing it forty one years, and this he'll do forty two and then he's out. Yeah, and and and by the way, it was a good run. Yeah, it's good run. Yes, right, So he always lose the good like why is he leading? Can can he
be president? Actually? You know the thing about Pat say Jack is he'd be a great president. He actually he's a wonderful, really nice guy, starry, very funny, very witty, very self aware, very smart. He's he's he reads a lot of stuff. It's very like um uh, he runs meetings. Well, I've been you know, with him in the group and he's sort of like not charing. But he's Pat say Jack. Um. I mean maybe maybe he's retiring to be Chairman of the Joint Chiefs
of Staff. We could do so much worse by electing anybody currently running. You know, Pat say Jack. Uh was in fact a one of the Good Morning Vietnam is not about Pat say Jack, but it could have been. Pat Say Jack was a broadcaster on the arm Forces rated network in in Vietnam. That was sort of where he got his start as a as a broadcaster. And um, he ran a pretty good talk show for a year or two. I guess it didn't rate. It was on CBS late Night,
one of their many efforts, failed efforts before before Letterman. Um, but it was it was good. It was modest. It was sort of
like low key, which is obviously his his great strength. Um. He also he was very early on and like it's interesting because there was this there was a kind of a comedy comic stance that was sort of embodied by I don't think I'm the pioneered, but like David Letterman right around you know, the early eighties, which is the idea that show business and all these show business cliches are kind of stupid and we kind of make fun of them,
and that kind of this kind of ironic way of talking that actually the David Letterman delivery at that time became such a big part of like the way people spoke who thought they were funny. Um uh. I remember a friend of
mine telling me the story. He knew that that Letterman had like the embedded himself too deeply in people's consciousness when he was like in his apartment in La and he'd lent his brownie pan, the pan you make your brownies into somebody who also lives in the apartment building who had had adopted a guy who had adopt that Letterman way of talking, like you know, uh, gasho GOLLI. Here we go. It's a you know, all that kind of thing. And door and the he's knock on the door, he opens it up.
There's this guy with his brownie pants says oh, oh gosh, oh golly, here's your brownie pan like like like, but so um, Patsy Jack had a little bit of that, just enough, this kind of the sense of like, Okay, this is a weird game show. I'm not gonna take it too seriously. I'm aware that this is something that's been going on for fifty years. And I'm I'm and I we're the parts of their
funny and ridiculous um. And he would always say to people when whenever they say, oh, we just love you, when yeah, you know, I play Hangman on TV for a living, so take everything I say with a grain assault. I want to tell you, guys why that is the best job in the history of capitalism. So I know this a little bit from my very brief experience, you know, as a contestant on Jeopardy thirty five thirty seven years ago. So these shows tape, they tape twice a
month. They four days a month. They do five shows a day on a say, a Tuesday, and they do the five shows day on a Wednesday. So they do two weeks per week, and then they wait two weeks and then they do two more. So they work four days a month, and pat say Jack makes in excess of twenty million dollars a year, may be more, we don't really know, which means that he makes about sixty five thousand dollars an episode. That's almost like a podcast host money.
Yeah, hello, Gusto, we just got our check from Gusto. Let me tell you we are we are rolling in it anyway, meet tonight anyway. What a job? Seriously, And who's to say that they're overpaid. They're not overpaid. They they're paid. Will be exactly right. They're paid with their When they had to change hosts on Jeopardy, look at the the hell into which Jeopardy descended when Alex Trebek died. I don't know what I
mean. You know, it's like they hired this guy, and then there were the articles exposing him, and he ran the Dick Cheney like campaign Mike Richards to see who would be the new host of Jeopardy, and then he appointed it comes on and he said three things on everybody is a jerk. Everybody's a jerk now, and and and Pat say, Jack's not a jerk, and like not being a jerk. He's more than that. He's a great guy. Actually, But the fact that he's just this normal person with
sort of normal views. Right. I mean, I don't think I'm revealing anything by saying Pat Say Jack is on the as a center, right figured no matter what? Yeah, but yeah, does he'll see that in a show. He's a funny guy. He makes a little wit whitty quips, and he's very nice with the people, and he runs the show that people like, and he's like, somehow, Pat Say Jack should be the model. We should all be more like Pat Say Jack, Right, Pat Sage
should be. I remember what Pat when he left Twitter, which is early days he left Twitter, he knew, get me out of here, this is not for me, and he was right. We should all have been more like Pat. Um. I mean I say that he's alive and well and very healthy and hale and hardy and all those things. And he's gonna have a lovely, lovely time off Um, he's gonna finally retire from his grueling four day a month schedules. What are you gonna do with all your
time? Pat? Well, you know, the one thing about the one thing about him is that he never pretends. I mean, my kids like the show, so I watch it sometimes, and he never pretends that he actually knows what the puzzle is before they you know, only when all the letters are exposed and the three people can't figure out what it is, does he kind of like say what it is or like act that way, whereas Alex Trebec. Yeah, his affect was that he knew all the answers right
right, but of course he had them in front of right. No. But his hope was like he had plugged the questions the prompts. I have to say one thing about Jeopardy. I'm sorry, that's the piece of west failure. Can I just say not what e desiast means when I so they had this tournament of champions of champions like a month ago on Jeopardy, which I don't don't don't watch very much. And I, by the way, people sometimes ask me, because I was a five time champion, why I'm
not on the why I don't go on these tournaments? And I can't because the head writer of Jeopardy, Billy Weiss, is a close friend of mine, the son of Ruth Weiss, who writes for commentary, the brother of Abbey Weiss Chapter who writes for the conservative presses, and and the brother of my one of my dearest friends Jacob Boys, an art professor at at Yeshiva University. Um, so I can't go on. But but so there was
this tournament and I thank God that I couldn't go on. So they had this tournament of tournaments with the guys who win everything, and I couldn't get a single It was so hard. It was like it was like some bizarre version of trivia, the purpose of which was to make it as hard as
possible for anybody to get. And it was fascinating to me. I would be interested to know if the ratings went up or down, because if I find trivia hard, I can't imagine what Most people watching the show, We're just sitting there like with their mouths hanging open because they didn't even know what the what the category meant, let alone what the But the answers were honest question because I mean, obviously you're a Jeopardy veteran and all that, but
like some of Jeopardy is muscle memory, right, I mean, because like, yeah, I don't watch for six months and then I watch it and I'm bad. But if I watch for three days in a row, all of a sudden, it's like the cross crossruzzle. Yeah, part of it is that is absolutely true. That and the thing when I did it when I was on, which was nineteen eighty six, is I pretty much knew
all the answers on the board. It was all a question of whether or not I could ring in in time and that and I think that was true of most most people or the people that I was up again. So the muscle memory, there was literal muscle memory or muscle experience about when to hit the buzzer so you didn't lock yourself out. Yeah, that was when the light goes on around the question. Yeah, the light the light second that Trebec finished saying the last syllable of the last word, you could press the
button. If you press it before then you were locked out for five seconds. So that what that was. That created this drama that no one knows about how to press the button, which is really the which is really the art of being a contestant on that show. I assume it's still the case
now. But this was just they did the right thing, which is they had the best people, people who had won you know, fifty seventy ninety games that kind of thing, which you know I could only win five, and I don't know if I would have won more, I lost the I lost the one game I played in the Tournament of Champions that year. But so they made it really really really hard, and man, it was really really hard. I mean it was just fascinatingly fascinatingly. I ask you a
question here. I mean, I don't I just really want to know what when you lose? Mhm, what happens? Like they say, mister Georgs, please come dismay. You don't he didn't. You don't think I didn't lose get hurt? And I don't. I don't actually remember what you know, they used to present people with, you know, Lee press On. I mean they didn't give them on the stage. They send them to you, right, and then you have to pay taxes on them. You have
to pay taxes on the least little press on nails. Yeah, I don't think they give Lee press on. I don't they don't. I don't think they give us subsidiary prizes anymore. So, But you remember that was always like wait, wait, wait, I don't get it. So you didn't lose, You're the reigning Jeopardy champion. I could plays. They had a five day limit and they lifted it and that's when Ken Jennings won seventy two games or something. I see, But for the ten fifteen years that it
ran, you could only win five games. So I retired, and then I played in the Tournament of Champions and I lost in the first round. Okay, well that's okay, all right. I don't remember what happened though, Yeah he said that. He did say that. I don't. So here's the question to assume. I assume I shook everybody's hands and then I left the stage. Did you feel were you kind of crying? No? Were you like Johnny Sack leaving the wedding crying with Ye? I was like
Philly g Tardo at the gas station. Yeah, they rolled the car over my head. So so, but like I look, I mean, not only was nineteen eighties, John Padre, it's a staggering male specimen, but your brain was younger, right, Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah? Are you wor how do you think you do it? Because like I worry about Oh, I don't think. I don't think I could do I couldn't. I'm nowhere near I'm not there anymore. I really don't. From what lethologica quite a bit, see, I think culturally. I think I have
all the memory that I had in nineteen eighty seven. It's just that I don't have much memory from nineteen eighty seven until now. Yeh. What I mean by that is if they had rock music, if they had category on wrap, or they had something on that, you know that not to steal from cheers, but like your ideal categories like the the the the John Podura's Dream Journal version of Jeopardy, it's like show business biographies, yeah right,
arcane Jewish thought were they Jews? But I had a category that I ran, you know, when you answer all the questions. So that category with literally I was behind. I was like behind in that I was the last pilot comrade, and it was it was Soviet leaders. And so I went from it was double Jeopardy. I went from the most the hardest answer that was the thousand dollars answer. Then I guess it's two thousand now up. And so I figured that the thousand dollars answer would be Mollenkoff, the least
known Soviet leader, and I was correct. And then obviously there haven't been that many of them. There weren't that many of them, So how it were there there was Stalin, there was Lenin, there was Crucial Hits, there was you know, there was Bresnev, and there was Mollenkoff and there
was Gorbachoff. And this was an easy I don't I mean, I don't remember what they were, but so that I could still run, sure, But you know, they wouldn't have Soviet leaders as a category, although on that Jeopardy Champions thing maybe they would have, because that would be the equivalent of some a category that is like almost impossible for anybody today. How about British prime ministers? That would be good, right at Lee? You know, I would be so bad Callahan. Anyway, you know what we got.
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to see if you're instantly approved. That's Ladderlife dot com slash glop, Ladderlife dot com slash glop, and we thank Ladder for sponsoring the Glop podcast. Um, Jonah, you had an interesting uh discussion in your Twitter feed, uh the other day or something you posted about we know about the notorious Dick van Dyke British accent. Yeah, the famous notorious Blimey Governor. That's too good. That's too good. Yes, that's better than Dick van Dyke's accent.
I feel what's to happen? All happened before. I'm sorry where was I so? But you asked or somebody asked, brit Brits come and do American accents, and now increasingly also on American TV shows, Brits are playing Americans. Who does the best American accent? Right? So, like the thing is is like particularly like in the early two thousands, particularly HBO shows, but it was all over the place where you'd be like, I mean, I remember the first time I just for the Indus ILBA. Yeah it
was a British guy. I mean, like like his acts, his Baltimore black accent was just fantasy. And then you know, and then it turns out that also McNulty on that show was British and like the what's his face from uh, the the Mentoring Candidate show, Damian Lewis Redhead. Yeah, yeah, and then you go down the list and then like all these basically like almost everybody in True Blood, which is not a great show, um
British and Ian McShane on Deadwood, like holy crap. It's like, you know, all these BRIT's come and taking American jobs, you know, and um, but you're saying these are jobs of Americans would do, That's what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, but I've had precious few experiences where um, I was like, oh my gosh, that person's American. And so I asked on Twitter about it, and a bunch of people said Gwyneth Paltrow like Charlie Cook, our French Charlie Cooks that he was stunned to find out
British Gwyneth Patro wasn't British. Yeah, and I can't remember her name, but I think people said Hugh Grant was stunned at a party when he found out she spoke in English American accent. But then there was some American actress who is in Pride and Prejudice, the Jennifer Eely Jennifer Ealely, who plays Elizabeth in the famous mini series Pride and Prejudice, in which Colin for plays
Darcy. Jennifer Eely grew up in North Carolina, but her mother was a famous British actress, Rosemary Harris. Her father was a novelist who taught I think at UNC and so she grew up there. But her mother, her mother's English. So so that's but she, I mean she's lawless. Like yeah, like as not that not that everybody who has a mother who has an English accent would be flawless, but it would never have known. Yeah.
The hard thing is that an American accent, at least the traditional American accent, doesn't get I mean, if you're an American, doesn't have that many giveaways, many tells, like you can listen to somebody here that if they do a hard r or something or a round and oh they're from northern they're from North Carolina, there Maryland or that you know that kind of um or they kind of have a flatter you know, pap soda path that back
of your mouth is like more Midwestern. But basically there's a kind of a sameness and it's all regional, whereas in Britain is like a third fourth dimension to it where you're there's where you're from, what social class you're in, and then what social class you're pretending to be in, which goes both ways.
So one of the reasons why they like really like these people should really criticize the Princess of Diana, Prince of Wales, was because she kind of she would kind of add a little y'allism, essentially, the version of you that y'all isn't her language, you wouldn't say, butsh her she say like if you were like, come on, like you're the daughter of the Earl spent you know you don't you don't you pronounce both of those teams like you're
like the queen um. And then there's also people who trying to be a little bit more more posh than they are. So the British are always trying to trip you up and try to figure out just where you rank, whereas I think Americans are the most if they if they even have regional American accents, where just where you're from. Well, so of course I think the most the most famous British person to affect an American accent in American film history
was Vivian Lee, who was Scarlett O'Hara in Gone with the Wind. It was a who was a who was unknown in the United States when she got the part, and that was revelatory because it showed how close the Southern accent, or the sort of the kind of the generic Southern accent is actually to British yeah, daily speak. One of the reasons that Renee Zellwegger is so staggering in Bridget Jones is that she doesn't sound like a posh She doesn't sound
like someone who has been through finishing school. She sounded like a London like a conventional ordinary londoner. Um, you know how dad, you know like that, And she sounded like an everyday person. And Gwyneth Paltrow, whose accent again flawless in Emma and in Sliding Doors, nonetheless sounds like you know she yeah, she she was. She sat for six months learning by listening to BBC Shakespeare, you know, by listening to BBC recordings of Shakespeare and
great actresses speaking in rounded you know, rounded tones like that. So even in its perfection, maybe she sort of showed that she wasn't really English. Then there are people like Tom Hardy, who loves to do American accents and doesn't really get them quite right. Like it's a movie like I think we give them a Yeah, the Engish people a little too much credit. Benedict
Commerbatch, Oh not bad. He has an accent. He does this kind of thing right where hard Over, got over, get out of here, get a gun and Greenwich village, right, fighter man, and I think cast a magic spell that will allow you to split up the multiverse. You know he was that Hugh Laurie also, but he did it when he was doing House. There was a little bit of that, but although he you know, that's what he did. A really sorcerer. Yeah, the word
sorcerer was was tough ye for comback, he says, sorcerer. Well, now we about Bob Hoskins and Roger Rabbit. That is great. That's like, you've got me all wrong. You don't know how hard it is being a woman looking the way I do. Yeah, you don't know how hard it is being a man looking a woman looking the way you do. I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way. He's like trying to do it. But it's like if you grew up, yeah, if you grew up
watching movies like American movies. The Third A friend of mine once went to went went to acting school and one of his teachers was this old woman and she was just like get taught learned in acting school in the thirties and forties, and that's when you were You watch an American movie from the thirties or forties and everyone's talking like this, you know, I must say I haven't
that, or they're Americans and you learned it my bites. The days of the week was Monday, Monday, tues Monday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday Sunday. You had to say it like that. That was a American English, which sounded sort of mid Atlantic. Yeah, although I think umberbat can sound kind of old mid Atlantic to me, like this is which is why I think he hits the ear
weird because there's so little of that left. Yeah, that's true. Um yeah, well, so all like movies like there were actors like Edward Everett Horton, who best known to people as the if you're our age you wouldn't know him if you weren't our but if you are age, you might know him because he was the narrator of the Fractured fairy Tales on the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show. Once upon a time there was a very ordinary kingdom full of
very ordinary people. They were so ordinary that they would have found life very dull, indeed, if it weren't for just one extraordinary girl named Beauty. And he was this great character actor of the thirties and forties. And he was an American named after Edward Everett, who was the famous the guy who spoke before Lincoln at Gettysburg and talked for two and a half hours and then
Lincoln talked for four minutes and gave the greatest speech in world history. So he's like American to his core, Edward Everett Horden, and he had this very affected like form of speaking that was, and he was a stage actor and then he went to Hollywood and he spoke like this, and nobody talks like that anymore. No one in America has that voice anymore at all.
And I think that's because Henry Fonda and Jimmy Stewart and I don't know Mary people who Gary Cooper and all that they came in and they established the American voice. And Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra, Frank Starts had kind of an accent, but I mean there was this kind of American accent that emerged as a result of Midwesterners and other people from small town's coming and sort of taking over pop culture. That took away that affected that this is the way you
should speak the radio voice. That couple things. I cannot believe that none of you've mentioned Kevin Costner and Robin Hood because something that was just a twittiful that if you truly believe in your hearts that you are free, and I say, we can win. They got armor, I got armorable. Even this boy can be taught to find the chinks in every suit of armor. But we ain't going enough. Hege, what do we mean that the forest cannot provide? We have food, what full weapons? We'll find safety installace
in our trees. Yeah, but what a going an kidd Shuder's taking all they got too. Oh my god, we take it back. That was the school of international accents. Well, Robert Redford sort of does it for there. It's like you don't know it when in out of Africa, Like you know, movies are made out of sequence. So clearly he spent two weeks doing an English accent and then said, oh the hell with it, and then stopped. But I don't know where they were in filming, you
know, because they were filming different scenes in different places. So sometimes he has this weird semi accent. Sometimes it's just Robert Redford. It's really bizarre. Hey, I'm so change topics slightly. Um, I I don't want to divulge names. But I was recently on the scene in green room with some prominent journalists and we were talking about and this is not a conversation about Trump, but we're talking about Trump's motivations for taking the documents and how I
think it's got a silly thing. It was all part of some grand scheme to leverage the Saudis and all that kind of stuff. It's just he thought they were cool, right, And I made this reference. I was like, you know, it's sort of like the ongoing debate about Trump and how much of he is he just like Chauncey Gardner, and people will project on
him. And two very significant, not not super SIGNI I mean, it's some real journalists of just twenty somethings but like close to my age didn't get the reference and heard of being there, and like, I think what I think is first of all, so weird about that, is like, it's not like I'm the only one who's made reference to being there in columns over the like, you know, like I guarantee I don't know who like Peggy Noonan and a half of the New York Times bid page at one point or
another has right. So it's like, Chris gard do you agree with better? Do you think we can still be like growth through temporary incentives as long as the roots are nuts seven, all is well, and all will be well, and the god it's part of the vernacular. And it reminded me. You know, both of you guys contributed. I did this thing a couple of years ago for The Dispatch because I was so frustrated with the young UN's on the staff not getting relevant political movie references. Right, I'm not
talking about like not knowing like the plot of Digstown or something. I mean like not knowing, you know, references in The Godfather or Mister Smith Goes to Washington, or these kinds of movies that are part of the political vocabulary. And I just it's it's weird to me how you can read forget writing, you know, because some of these people are just reporters and they just you know, it's a different skill set in different orientations. But like presumably
they read and like some of these things that people don't know. It's I mean, I don't want to get off my long guy here, but it's really shocking to me. Christine on my podcast, Christine Rosen and Mac Hannay revealed that, um, they were talking to some of the young people at Ai where Jonah is an American Air president suit and like they didn't know who Tina Turner was. So that's not even that's not even being there. Which was a which was a high end not really an art movie, but you
know it wasn't like a blockbuster when it came out. Um, but that's like, now, how old are we? Like, is Tina Turner a reference from you know, from the Antidiluvian era? Or by the way, speaking of an amazing American accent, Peter Sellers could do anything, and he did. He could do astounding ad Lay Stevens an accent in Doctor Strange Love. He could do like a Gino from Los Angeles and I Love You Alice b topless, and he had that. Eddie could do South Asian in the
party. I'm not talking about South Asian and the party. Don't you don't you trash the party. I didn't trash the party. It's a it's a very specific movie. But I love Als Yeah, which is of a Jewish guy. Also in the World of Henry Orient in which he plays a guy who has a fake accent and then when he gets agitated it becomes a Brooklyn accent like that's and he's an you know English mean, he was just uncanny. Like I saw a clip of one of his interviews that somebody didn't interview
with him. This is a long time ago. He was even Dick Cabot or something or maybe before that, and someone was asking him about Doctor Strangelove where he plays the you know, a German and he's like, he's, well, you know I started out doing it's a German accent like this,
you know what it's like. But Kubrick had a friend of his friend of Kubricks was this was the set photographer who was the famous photographer Weigi actually um and Weigi used German and so Weigi took all the photographs on the set of Doctor Strangelove and he would He's like a little diminutive guy and he would set up his little camera. You know, he still use the old fashioned camera. Set it up, and he'd always set it up. And he's been
like twenty minutes setting his camera up. And then Kober is not now Wigi, and Wigi would say okay, okay, I am leaving. And then and he but a very high pitched voice like whatever, I can't do it. And then, as Sellers was describing how Weigi talked and the accent, he merged into his character from Doctor Strangelove UM and he said, that's so basically I'm doing Weigi. I'm doing this very high pitched German voice. But
he said he searched for he like looked around. I mean that's you know, the level of skill and craft he had, speaking of level of skill and graft and something you need to do. I drink stop Bloody Greens. This is the um our. Next partner is ag one. That's Athletic greens one, the daily foundational and tritional supplement that supports whole body health. I drink it every day. I gave it a try. Actually, I heard about the Tim Ferris podcast. It's not maybe eight nine, maybe even ten
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product. So I'm just very quickly because I wanted to get it out in the last conversation when you're talking about the kids not knowing a Tina Turner is, do you guys remember when Margaret Thatcher died? There was a hashtag Thatcher is dead, and hundreds of young people were like, what the hell? Why are people saying that that share is dead? Because Thatcher is that look and they don't know who that was, Yeah, but they do who share is Yeah, we take what you can get. Yeah, yeah, well
there's that. It's like that line. Billy Crystal had this line in a stand up where his kid says to him, Dad, did you know that Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings? And the kid who said that it's probably now fifty? Yeah, I if a kid ever said that, right, yeah, even even that strange credulity. But it does it does fit? Um it does it does? Does does fit? Something? There is this whole McCartney thing going on now, you know, like he's got
a book of photographs out. Remember in A Hard Day's Night Now we're really dating or something. I just happened to watch it last month because I showed it to one of my kids. But there's a whole sequence on a Hard Day's Night where he's walking around taking pictures. Um, it's it's it's pretty amazing by the way Hard Day's Night like it. It's the first mockumentary I think really ever made, and it's funny and weird and not like anything ever
before since well Worth well Worth revisiting. But he's taking all these pictures. It turns out that McCartney really was a pretty serious photographer. And I was thinking about this, So he's like twenty two or something like that when when A Hard Day's Night is it was made and he is now eighty three or something like that, and he has been world famous without let up for three quarters of his life. Yeah, can't go anywhere, can't do anything,
like sixty years. He's like one of the most famous people in the world without let up. Like it's not like he went into decline somehow. I mean, he's not wasn't the Beatles, you know. But I'm just saying, like, I'm sure that there are three billion people on earth who if he walked down the street would be able to say, that's Paul McCartney. What well at this point existence like that be like I can't even Yeah, but has he monetized? That's the important question is brand I think you could
walk down the street and not recognize he looks weird now. He looks kind of like like he like somebody put Paul McCartney in a like a on water has been preserving him in water or something for a while. Like he's just
a little bit I don't know, there's something weird about him. What I love about Paul mcartney is that he I think the reason why he lasted so long is that according to people, I don't know that he's like like he's like a like a he's like one of the most shallow people ever, not in a bad way, just like he just doesn't have any big thoughts. And a friend of mine once told me the story. He was performing in in in La and uh, they were all and he was invited to go
to the after party after. So he was performing at Staples Center downtown, but he was staying at his big fancy hotel um in near Beverly Hills, and uh, and he's got like the big top floor pretty much, and he's got this room for the after party. And everybody gets there before McCartney gets there after the show, and so they're all in the in the party
room and someone has been playing exclusively Beatles music and Wings music. So my friend is in the music business and calls to the person the manager and charge is listen, I don't know if you know this, but it's very uncool to play the artist songs here. I know what you're trying to do, and like, that's fine, but really before Paul and his people get here, you need to change it. And the guy said, no, no, this is what Paul's requested. And so party goes on and near's the
annual, the big people kind of gone. And he's a lovely guy. But they're sort of sitting on a sofa chatting and they're gossip with friends that they know, and and there you know, he's you know, just they're just catching up and um and then and then um, eleanor Rigby comes on and so they're playing eleanor Rigby and and there's a moment where the conversation pauses and Paul looks, I goes really does make you think about all the lovely
people, doesn't it. So you know, sometimes if you're unburdened by thought, you can you you can find yourself with a long career. It's very Chauncey Gardner observation. I wish, I wish, I wish I were that that light of thought. Um. I tried to watch that Beatles document at six hour Beatles Documentary. I loved it. That did you so? I found it way too boring. But there is this moment in it where you where you watch Paul McCartney incept the song get back. Yeah, they have
no material, they have this album to record. Word they have no material. And then he picks up a guitar and he just starts strumming violently and out of nowhere in thirty seconds, rights get back. It's uncanny. It's like the Higgs boson them. It's like it's like it's like this thing was created where thirty seconds earlier there had been nothing. Yeah. Um, and and you know it is like some it is some visual it's some manifestation of
genius right in front of you. And I know the general thought has always been that Lennon was the greater genius. And I just don't think that there's anyway Sin was actually Molonkov, Yeah, Molenkoff. The Molonkov was Pete Best I guess. Yeah. So like not hugely interesting, but like I'm still
getting Fox News, the Fox News app. I get notifications turned on for some and so, and like you could always tell when they're trying to pull one over on you versus actually deliver you news on the notifications, because if it's big news, they give you the actual news. If it's something that's clickbait, they like they entice you. But what the hell are you talking
about? So they about a month ago they sent out a notification saying early member of the Beatles are a member of the Beatles dies you're like, shit, who is it? Like, like who died? And like you look it up. I can't remember the guy's name. It was like Ryan's previous. I mean it was like some total freaking nobody who played drums. They played drums on Revolver. There was like two sessions in Liverpool when someone had the flu or something. Yeah, it was really yeah, like guy I
never knew lived as died. People never believe that's you know, it's like you'll never believe who died. And then it turns out that you click on it because you're an idiot, and then it turns you wouldn't believe who died because you've never heard of that person who died and they're seven, So yeah, they would believe it. Yeah, oh my god. All right, Well I think we're I think we're My advancing age would indicate we're now in the We're now in the Yes, old man yells at cloud. Is that
what we've been done here? I don't know. How does Gusto? How does don't know? I know? I Gusto is the Guesso is the email company. We get an email from Gusto whenever we get a quarterly payment for our share of the ad revenue here on on glop which, yeah, as Jonah says, you know, could buy you a an impossible brother. So I like that. The uh introduction of ectasiast um at the beginning of the show. We never told people what ectasiast means, which is a very ecdeasiastic
way to conduct conversation. You are not you're teasing the audience further. Um, I guess we should tell people what it what it means. It's it's it's a strip tease former. Um, yes, it's yes, it's Gypsy rose Lee or um would be the most famous, uh, and I think may have been the inventor because she was very pretentious. The Great Rogers and Hart song Zip is a parody of Gypsy rose Lee, who would like strip
and say things like I just read John Steinbeck's latest short story. She had a fan in front of her, and you know, Pablo Picasso's Garnica is really one of the finest of all art work. Get off and then with a lot of bunch of one stuck at her. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, So yeah, that's what Nick dasiast is um. Um are we gonna talk about what we're reading or watching? That we like because I have a book finish which I really like. It's called A Season of the Witch by
David Talbot. I've read The Season of the Witch. Did I not recommend that to you? I don't know if you did, because it is I don't like David Talbot, who is the founder of Salon, and I don't like him. I don't like his politics. I don't like that is a sensationally good book. It's a great book. And what I love about it is if it's a it's a it's a you can you feel the psychological strain in the books. Book tell a story of San Francisco from like now early
sixties all the way to the late eighties. I mean it really starts, it starts. It's a history of San Francisco. Really starts with the with the with the earthquakes. Yeah, but that's right, that's just said that. Yeah, it's really about you know, hippie a se summer of hippies, the decline of hippies, the sla all sorts of things, serial killers, all the stuff that like San Francco is famous for in the in the sixties, seventies and eighties and the nineties and now and it's an indictment of
it. Really, it's an indictment of liberal progressivism, that's really what. It's an indictment of it. So if he can't bring himself to connect the
dots, all the dots are there. If you read it, you see exactly this beautiful, idyllic passage about this commune in the late sixties called the Good Earth Commune and Hate, which somehow had managed to avoid all sorts of the excesses of all the communes and hate, except near the end they got into they got into cocaine, and then they started dealing cocaine and then became drug dealers, and they all either died or they left. But the decline
of all those great Utopians is so fantastic. It's so rich and lurid, you have a hard time believing it's real. It's like a one of most John Irving novels. It's just like so incredibly vivid and over the top. It's like too much. So this is true, So I recommend it. I just finished it. And it's a little arcade. If you're not into San Francisco, you didn't live there, it's like part of it. What do you care? The president the Board of Supervisors was but I think it
is. I think it is. It's an important book to read as a reality check, by which I mean what was going on in San Francisco from about nineteen sixty nine until nineteen seventy nine was so crazy that when we look around and we say things in America are just so, we're going we're in terrible shape. The crime that this Black Lives Matter Portland looked, what's happening
in Portland. I share the distress at the condition of our cities and things like that, but you have no you cannot even you can't compare what things are like now with what they were like then. Multiple serial killers by calling on Yeah, there were multiple serial killers. There were there were black radical black groups that were Who's the Zebra killers. The doctrine had it that they should just go out and attack random white people, which twenty six was they
killed, they killed twenty six. But I was gonna say, was there there were multiple serial killers going at the time that they were also searching for Patty Hurst. It's like there was like there was like constant crisis and uh, it's um and it really is an indictment of UM. Yeah, and
all of them and all of these. Yeah, unto tie back to the thing about political literacy with movies, go watch Network and see a grap fest American public life was, and how and how realistic all that seemed, you know, um it was anyway, Sorry, no, anyway, I'm i'm, i'm, I'm. I'm thrilled to have this conversation because I really did the book das to me, and I knew a lot about I knew everything.
I knew in detail, lots of different chunks of it. For example, the degree to which Jim Jones, who of course then you know, caused the deaths of nine hundred people poisoned nine hundred people at the you know, in Guiana after his church fled San Francisco to go to Guiana, got the mayor of San Francisco, George Musconi, elected mayor. He has given credit without question, he was the most important political player in San Francisco.
This guy we think of as this crazy cult leader with this crazy, you know, extreme thing who did with the kool aid and shooting congressman and all of that. He was a key. He was like Al Sharpton, but way more powerful. And this guy got George Musconi elected, who then of course was but by by cheating, by cheating, and he was shot dead in city hall. As you know, people only know the name of Harvey Milk. Carvey Milk was just a supervisor in in the San Francisco municipal government.
George Musconi was the mayor. Dan White shot another supervisor shot Musconi, and Milk killed them both. And you know who then became a major American political figure as a result of that. Diane Feinstein, right, Trump for mayor, lost twice and then became accidentally became mayor because of Mausconi's assassination, and is now drooling and incontinent in the Senate Chamber. I'm sorry I brought this up now always out a clean getaway. I'm so sad. I just
wanted to I just want to say I was reading a book. What are you reading, Joe. I'm reading Robert Kagan's Goes Through the Feast and it's great. I gotta say it's great. I have a major lacuna in my late nineteenth early twentieth century foreign policy stuff and it's great. It's it's incredibly and I will admit part of the reasons it's great is it confirms so many
of my priors. But it's great, you see. And the whole point about David Talbot was that I read the book even though I assumed that it would not confirm my priors, because I was interested in the subject of San Francisco story. And then it did confirm my priors because he's honest to his best, because he's honest enough to write the facts down of this story that is beyond belief. So, John, I assume you're you're you're reading Jamie
Farre's biography right now. I excuse me. I would like I have Jamie Farre's biography in my house. Would you like to know why? Because I signed I think I think he said what I was the TV critic of the Post. He sent me a sign copy. It is called just far Fun and it is the only I have. So what are you reading? What am I? I am reading for no reason, the late fiction of Irwin Shaw. So you want to talk about, like, you know, being
there? So Irwin Shaw was this wildly bestselling writer wrote His most successful book was rich Man, Poor Man, which was made into the first MINISERI, the first American miniseries I made Nick Nulty a star, but he had been a playwright in the thirties. He then became a screenwriter in the forties, and he started writing novels in the fifties, and he wrote books that sold millions of copies, and no one has ever heard of him. He died
in like nineteen eight three, nineteen eighty four. And I read a novel of his called Evening in Byzantium, which is about the Con Film Festival in nineteen seventy, and it was like eating candy. It was so like a nostalgia fest. For it's about It's a nostalgia fest, even if you had
no experience of the Con Film Festival in nineteen seventy. You know the cars they're driving, the beaches thereon the drunken scenes, Pablo Picasso at dinner at the restaurant you're in and you're worried he's looking at you because you're you're ashamed to be anywhere in the presence of Pablo Picasso. Anyway, I'm really I really enjoyed it. This guy knew how to craft a popular novel, right, which is something we doesn't even really exist anymore, Like a novel that
is an entertainment does anybody write those. I don't think people write novels the purpose of which is to provide people with entertainment. It's to shock them or it's just sort of both horrors and existence and all that, but not like this is one form of popular entertainment, like a movie, like a play,
like a TV show. Novels really don't have that much anymore unless you're unless you read genre fiction, right, unless you read mysteries or science fiction or fantasy, the novel about people in their forties living a life doesn't exist anymore. And it's I miss it myself speaking of living a life. So okay, we gotta live life now. Rob have a wonderful time going near where evening in Byzantium set is set. And uh, Jonah, you will
be ruminating later this week on the Ruminant. I take I at some point yet, although I in four minutes, I'm doing a remnant with Jonathan Adler, my friend Johan Adler. So and then later this afternoon I'm doing another one with Rickets, my colleague at the American Enterprisement Suit. So there, rumination. So you're doing three today. I only did two because I did
the commentary podcast three minutes before I started this one. So and we need to get you off conversation, so we will that fee uh tipper waitresses bead. You know my favorite yogiism, my favorite Yogi baratism of all time. It's absolutely true. Yogi Bara, upon learning that the Mayor of Dublin, Robert Briscoe, was a Jew, said only in America. Yeah, that's fantastic. I know that. The greatest, the greatest. See you guys, thank you, thank you, villas. See soon later