Because I have that image of God in the center and the circular sphere and everything, it changed how I look at everything on the planet. I would think so. And how I react to things on the planet. And to know that in that environment there in heaven, we all get to see Jesus and the Father all the time. We can never not look upon them. And that image is with me even here on the planet. It's different because of just how the planet is structured, but it's the same concept that God is always there.
He never leaves us nor forsakes us. Yes. We can always go boldly to the throne of grace. God promises in Joel 2, 28 to pour out His Spirit on all humanity. Welcome to Global Outpouring. Will we contend for that promise outpouring? Will we equip for that outpouring so that we may engage in that outpouring? I'm Philip Bus. And I'm Sharon Bus. Welcome to the podcast today.
We are so excited to have with us again our dear friend, Dean Braxton, the man that left his body for an hour and 45 minutes and his body died. The medical team was working on him the whole time, so it's one of the very best documented situations of a death experience. And he was really, really dead for a long time, according to his doctor.
So he is with us for another episode and we are going to talk about things in heaven so that we can begin to understand how on earth as it is in heaven can happen. When we get a greater understanding of what's going on in heaven, we'll have a greater understanding of how we can worship and live on earth in a way that brings the kingdom of God to the earth. So today we're going to talk about what it's like around the throne. Thank you so much for joining us today.
You are really going to enjoy this episode. And I have an announcement to make. And you can go to our website, globaloutpouring.net, and make sure that you're on our email list so we can keep in touch with you because we have our convention 2025, May 21st through 24th, and you are some of the first people to hear this. We have two of our speakers confirmed now, Tony Kemp and Dean Braxton.
And we're so excited to have Dean with us today, but he has just given us confirmation that he will be with us for our convention. And it's going to be a special, special time. He's going to give his testimony. Maybe you've already heard his testimony, but then we're going to have at least one afternoon session of questions and answers.
And he told us very clearly that because of what the Lord told Dean about how he can teach when he's with us at Global Outpouring, he told us that he's going to be able to go into greater depth when he answers questions. So if you've been in one of his meetings and he's done a question and answer, you might not have gotten everything that you could get. So plan to be with us at this convention. It's going to be a glory time.
We're going to have wonderful, glorious worship and deep teaching and intercession. This is a gathering of intercessors that, wow, it's just amazing. And it's a time for hearing from heaven, getting your marching orders for the next year, getting a call to the nations. As you pray over the flags, we'll have flags of nations up around the room. You know, when you get into a group of people that are believers, you bring your anointing and everybody else brings their anointing.
And there's a synergy that takes place. But in order to be a member of Global Outpouring, you must have made a commitment to the Lord and done a 21-day fast for the anointing of God in your life. It's not about fasting to become a member. It's about fasting for the anointing because that anointing increases when you deny yourself like that for 21 days. It's the shortest of the prophet length fasts, like the length that Daniel fasted.
So this fast, when you get a whole bunch of people together that have done this and increased the anointing in their life, well, the synergy that you get in that context is absolutely amazing. And so we want to invite you to come, whether you've ever fasted or not, come and get into this atmosphere. And you're going to have an opportunity to make relationships, build relationships that will go on for eternity. This is going to be an amazing time.
And we encourage you to go to our website, click on the events tab and look for the Convention 2025 information. You can go ahead and make your reservations at the St. Louis Airport Marriott. There's a link to it right there. And we'll be having more details about the speakers coming up ASAP. Well, Dean, it's such a blessing to have you with us again today. Well, it's really great to be with you.
I can't tell you how delighted I am that after your experiences in heaven, when your body died because you left it, all of these things that you've experienced and the many things that you have kept quiet about because you weren't sure whether people were ready for this. I just want to say, I believe it's my understanding that the Lord is leading people to this podcast who are ready. Yes. And so the Lord has given you permission to open up and teach some things among us.
And we just say, thank you, Jesus. Yes, amen. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, Father. We want to touch on something that we haven't ever discussed before that has been in my heart. I started studying this and teaching it a bit back in the late 90s. I don't know how soon before that I started meditating on it. But I began to see how that praise in the Hebrew words, it has in it a circular motion.
And I haven't got all the scriptures for it here at the moment, but I want to talk about this circular motion that I'm seeing. For instance, where it says that David danced with all his might. Yes. That word is the Hebrew word, karar. And it means to dance or to hurl, to go or move in a circle. It can also mean to exalt or to leap like a lamb. Have you ever seen lambs and goats and calves? That they do this little leaping, twisting dance. It's so cute.
And there's another word, huel, which means dancing in a circle, around dance. And I believe that's the reason why you see Jewish people dancing in a circle. Circle dances, yeah. Yes, the Bible says to. Right. You know, it's so clear that it means to dance in a circle, to praise his name in the dance. That's machal, praise his name in the dance. That's the circle dance. And the word huel is to twist or hurl in a circular or spiral manner.
So talk to us about the things that you saw in heaven that have to do with circles and spirals and spheres. And just whatever the Lord is giving you liberty to share with us. You know, Sharon, you know, I always go back and let everyone know that I'm evangelist. And my major goal is to go out and get people to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
Yes. And most of the time it's to make sure people understand Jesus' love for them, that he died on the cross for them so that they can be with him and the Father through the Holy Spirit forever. So I want to bring that up first, you know. Yes. In a way, and maybe we'll end with that too, because there's some circular within that, if you think about it. OK, come on. Those three in one, the best visual that I could say is it's like a circle.
Each one was like a circle and part of the circle of, you know, what we would call the godly head. But the reality of it is it's a circle. Is it a circle or is a sphere? You could say it's a sphere in the sense of because it's round, OK, like that. But the reality is a circle, you know, it's not one dimensional. Let's put it that way. OK. You know, and it's not three dimensional. It's really so many dimensions I can't even demand, can't even describe.
Yeah. OK, but let's go back because I want to, you're talking about the dancing and, you know, deep worship in heaven, which I wrote. And I talk about that in a way in that book. Now, one of the things I wish I would have probably known now that I didn't know then is that circular word that you were just talking about in the Hebrew, because in heaven, almost everything that I saw was done in a circle, you know, almost everything. And worship was really done in a circle.
When I describe in one of the chapters, the flowers and how they spin around and spin around and they were doing the circle, you know, if you think about the angels and the cherubins that we talk about in the circle within the circle. And I said it looked like a helicopter blades, you know, when they were praising the Lord. They weren't helicopter blades, that's the closest I can come to describe, but they were in a circle and they were given praise in that atmosphere.
So there's so many different things in that book that I'm describing, but the picture would be they're doing it in a circle, even when we were praising the Lord and the Father around the throne. The throne was suspended, right? Up above? It was suspended, but the glory came all the way. Oh boy, you're asking me to describe something that I have nothing on the planet to even adapt it to right now. I'm going through my head and my heart to try to adapt it.
That one just went well outside of my boundaries of how to explain it on this planet. Because there's no end to it, let's put it that way. There's no end to it. You know, it says the beginning and the end, the Alpha and the Omega, that's really in a circle format. Yes, I've been seeing that. You know, most people don't realize it. And when I would say this, remember, I think I told you, people would ask me how huge God was, you know what I mean?
And I would say when I look at the beginning, I lose the end. And when I look at the end, I would lose the beginning because it was a circle. Yeah. You know? So how do you describe that to us that are looking more two-dimensional at the most? You know, we know three-dimensional, but most of us look at things from a distance, point A to point B, you know, point B to point C or point A to point X, you know, something like that. And yet that's not how it is in the kingdom of God and heaven.
And no one's concerned with the end. Yeah. And no one's concerned with the beginning. Wow. So you think about that, you know? But I remember when the angel was calling all of us to come around the throne of God, around the throne of God, to give him praise. And it is suspended, okay? Heaven was like a sphere, okay? Okay. And God was in the center, the Father was in the center of the sphere. Yeah. So there was nowhere in the sphere that you could not see God. Beautiful.
You could not see the Father. It wasn't like He disappeared on you because He was behind a mountain or there was a valley you had to go through. Everywhere within the sphere, you could see Him because He is the center, because He lights up everything and everything is lit up because of Him, you know? And so here it is in heaven and everything's coming around. So you have to envision everything coming around, not just in a one-dimensional round the throne. Oh. Around the throne.
Oh, oh, I get it. Around in the sphere. Around in the sphere. So everything is around the throne because we were called by this angel to come and give God, I would say, tell Him how much we love Him. You know, a lot of people will say give Him praise, but I would say, tell Him how much we love Him. I wish people could grab that word when I say that, that you're not coming around Him just to tell Him how great He is.
You're coming around Him to tell Him how much you love Him. You know, you may use words that say how great He is, but within that, you're telling Him, I love you. That's all you really say. Oh, yes. But if you think about just how that process of that angel sending out that note A, you will feel, you know, understand the note A, and it went out in such a way that when it reached me, it circled back for me to come back with it.
So it wasn't just that it came in me and then that was it. It hit me and then it circled back to go back to where it came from. It drew me, but it was more of a circle in its motion. It wasn't just a straight line back and forth. It was a circle in its motion to go back there. And this is the first time I've shared this with anybody that's listening, you know, mainly because you opened up the door for me to start sharing about the circle of the Spirit.
I've shared about the Spirit before, and like you said earlier, I was concerned with people not ready for that because we imagine a heaven similar to earth. Yes. Okay. And it would be like earth turned inside out. And we lived on the inside of earth instead of the outside of the planet that we call the outside. Do you understand what I mean? You take every building, everything on the surface here and flip it around and have a
sphere. The earth was a sphere. Now, some people don't believe that they believe it's flat, but it is a sphere. You saw it. Yeah, I saw it. Okay. And then everything is centered inward and God is the center of everything. And even Him, in the sense of, you know, we say sits on the throne and our minds want to go and make him more look like a human being. And yet we really look like Him in so many different ways. But the reality of it is, if you think about that, like I said, He's not...
Oh, no way. I tried to find words to even describe what I saw, you know, and I lose... I usually don't even try to go here because it gets so complex for me to try to describe that. And I think maybe somebody else who saw Him would say it's different. You understand what I mean? But all I remember is that His face faced every direction. So you never... No one was looking at the back of the head of God, the Father. Okay. You know, His face faced every direction and someone says,
oh man, that sounds so weird. And that sounds so out there, but He's God. He's going to be outside of our confinements of what He should look like or what He should portray. And I even think to the point, and you've heard me say this about Jesus Christ, He will appear as you believe He is, you know, right now on the planet. But the Bible says we will see Him as He is. Yes. And I was outside of my body and I didn't let my flesh define Him when I came back.
You know, I let the Word of God define Him when I came back. And because I let the Word of God define Him, I didn't lose the image of what I saw. Does that make sense to you? Absolutely. Yes. So that spear is round and it's expanding. It's like a balloon that would have air pushed in it and it's moving out. I always tell people, heaven is expanding. And someone says, you know, what is it expanding in? I don't know. I won't even try to go there. It wasn't a big issue for me when I was there.
I'm thinking, why would it be a big issue when I'm here on the planet? But it's expanding. And as it's expanding, it's not only expanding outward, it's expanding inward. You sent me a diagram recently where we started going inward and inward and inward and inward. Yeah. And every time we went inward, it's almost like we saw a different diagram or a different world. Yes. Well, that's how heaven is too. It is so... C.S. Lewis said something,
you know, the writer of The Chronicles of Narnia, some of you know. And in one of the books of me and you discussed it before was The Musician and The Nephew. And in that book, there's a place where you could enter into different worlds. Okay. But as he described it, listen to how he described it, he described them as pools of water. They were circular pools of water. Okay. The reason I'm saying that is because we say dimensions and I know people want to say that,
I think that's an earthly term or that's our diagram of things. I call it expansions. A lot of times, sometimes we say levels, I always say we're expanding because we were made to go into realms in such a way that's different than most people realize it. I think we do it on the planet quite often and don't realize we're doing it. Because of just how we think of, I didn't go from here to here, that means I didn't enter in. And yet you entered in in a different
way because our spirits, the real us were created to move in that realm. That's our natural realm. So in going back to what C.S. Lewis said, pools of water, and each time you jumped into a pool of water, you were in a different realm or a different world. Okay. I really believe that he had that experience where he saw that. And now he described it in the book the best way he could. Yeah.
But I really believe he saw it. And that's what I, I never tell people this. Some people say, oh, you traveled through heaven, you were an hour and 45 minutes at the most I could have been there. But because of the dimensions that you go through or the different realms that you go through, you see a lot more than most people think. There were so many different realms in heaven. Wow. The Bible tells us there are different heavenly realms in Ephesians. I think it's the first chapter
starting at the third verse, I believe it talks about different realms of heaven. And some of the translators say realms, they don't say some of the other words that we say about heaven, but they say realms of heaven. And that's what we are created for. And they're all circular. Wow. Wow. We were created for that. We think in a circular way too. I think we do. Yes. If you think about it.
Well, yeah. If you consider that everything about time is circular. You have a calendar that goes around and every year you have a January, February, March, et cetera, et cetera. And you come back around, you start again. Every month is circular, every week, like the whole thing about the moon going around and having it goes around and it has phases and you have a full moon, you have a new moon. And every day, every hour, everything's circular. Our whole time
understanding is circular. And God gives us second chances coming back around again. Excuse me for interrupting. Oh no, that's okay. I think some of that, you're saying that, I think some of that's been taken and used in other religions. If you think about it, that circular thinking. Yeah, Hinduism. Yeah. Hinduism, you know, don't think that way. You got Buddhists that think that way. We got a lot of others. It's almost like they were right, but they used it wrong.
Right. Well, it's also part of the time thing, which is, you've expressed to us before that that time is the clicking of the time clock to the end of the devil's reign or whatever you would even call it, his existence, whatever. I'm not sure how to call it, but you know, that's why he knows his time is short because there is an end point to it. Right. There's an end point to it. It's almost like his circle was cut. Wow. You know what I mean? Even yours and mine, our circle has not been cut.
People that don't know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, their circle has been cut. There is an end time for them where there is no end for us at all. But let me go back to try to describe that again, the post-sphere, because even me saying right now, it's like taking this earth and turning everything inside out. I've never used that term. I've never said that before. This is the first time I've been able to take that and really describe it where
I think people can grasp. If you take every building, every tree, every mountain, and all of a sudden flip it and all of a sudden it's the inside and the outside is the outside, and then you've got the Father, which is the center of everything because he's holding everything together. He holds it all together by his love. That love that he has for everything holds everything together in that realm. So that's the word of his power. That's the word of his power. The word of his power is love. Wow.
That's correct. Everything gets to see him all at the same time. It's not like a line and that was one of the things that really there was no line in front of even Jesus. It was like there was no number. I used to say it quite often when I came back. There was no number two. Everyone was number one. You know, sometimes they say you're second in line, third in line. There was none. Everybody had and I could see that because of the sphere and because of how we could approach
the Father and how we could approach Jesus Christ. It wasn't that Jesus Christ just stood in the center also. He could roam around the different sides, but everybody knew where he was all the time. Wow. Wow. It's even like now I believe in our own spirits. We know where Jesus Christ is. You understand that? I mean, sometimes we go through some pain and we go through some things and we where are you got? But in reality, our spirit always knows where he is. When I got to heaven,
I didn't have to ask anybody how they get to Jesus. I knew exactly where he was. Wow. And that's because of the Holy Spirit on the inside of me. Yes. Breaking this even down more to the spirit. So you got the Father, he's in the center, you have to sphere around. Everything's expanding outward and then also inward, everything is expanding. So all of a sudden we got a realm that's really circular and it's everything, creation, which you can go inward into these circles and go places or you can go
outward in these circles and go places. Wow. And we were created for that. And there's no end to it. It's sort of like a spiral. Just like a spiral. Yeah. You know. The spiral keeps going. And I think in the dancing that you were talking about the Jewish people, the Hebrew people do, which is a circle, it's honoring that creation. It's not only a form of showing appreciation to the Father, but it's also a form of honoring the circular creation that God has put us in.
Now, some of us will have a hard time with this because we got so linear in our thinking. Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. And some of us right now that are listening to the jumping up and down saying, thank you, Jesus. I always thought it was like that. Amen. Amen. You know, the Hebrews tend to think in circular or spherical thinking and the Greek thinking is more linear. And we have so much influence in our Western culture from Greek
thinking. Well, I think it's also when you think about even family. You know what I mean? And family is a circular motion. You know, we were talking about this between me and you earlier about your granddaughter and how your granddaughter favors your grandmother. Was it? Yeah. Okay. If you think that's a circular. Wow. There comes that image around again.
Yeah. You know, I have a son that favors my dad. You know, you take the picture of my dad and I don't look like my dad, like my son looks like my dad. Isn't that amazing? He does. And so, and saying that to you, if you think about the family is really a circular structure. You know what I mean? Yeah, we have two, a husband and a wife, but in reality, it's again, it's moving around in a circle because really was what that was produced to create a third person. Exactly. Do you think of that?
Yes, absolutely. I've been thinking along those lines. Yeah. And some of us create more than one third person. I ran into a lady the other day and told me she's number one out of eight, you know, there's eight of them. Yeah. I was a fourth of five, pretty good, pretty good size family. Yeah. But back in those, you know, in the old days, those eight, nine, 10, Yeah.
I even asked her, I said, were you at home when the youngest one was born? And she said, well, my oldest son is older than my youngest. Yes. Yes. Your uncle is younger than you. It's kind of weird. Yes. But I think if people would look even at the family, it's a circular, when you're in heaven, my family came to greet me in. And I remember the connection I had that went all the way back to
Adam. Okay. You know that connection's there all the way back to Adam. And one of the things that got me really about that is that the circle has not been completed and the circle won't be completed until the last person is created. If you think about it. Sure. You know, but God is really connecting us back to that circle, which leads back to him. He's the ultimate father. Yes. And there's no way to not have that connection with him as that area. And so I'm just going
through my head right now, because even the Trinity is a circular. If you think of it as circular, father, son, and Holy Spirit, you know, I've seen it where people make the, what do you call it, the curved lines instead of the straight lines, like a triangle. Do you understand what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. They take three circles and kind of superimpose them over each other a little bit. I've seen that, but I also see the connection between the circles. Let's say they're separated,
like the son's here and the father's here and the Holy Spirit's here. And then they'll draw a circle like this to connect them. Okay. And I look at that as they're connected, period. I don't look at that as we're connecting them. They are connected, whether we think they're connected or not. And they do not separate themselves. And I can see the over, you know, putting one on top of the other and you have the circles like that too.
But the reality of it is they are one because of that. And they're not three in one. They're just one period. They don't think of themselves as the three in one like we do. I know that theologically doesn't go with somebody, but somebody else to try to define it. And everybody else ran around with it and thought, this sounded good. But when you get there, you find out, number one, no one really cares. You know, he's God, period. You understand what I mean?
But number two, you just find out that that was not the correct thing. And it's hard for some of us that want to be intellectual, you know, to figure out that we really cannot define God. Yeah. Our finite minds, the problem is our minds are finite. Yeah. I think our minds are finite to a certain extent. I think if we let go, you got people that are just trying to be spiritual without Jesus Christ. And because of that,
they have, I say, not the ultimate anchor. They help them know the truth of what it is to really walk in the Spirit of God. So they're trying to be spiritual. Does that make sense to you? Yeah. And they still let a lot of their carnality get in the way of their movement in Christ. Okay. When I was in heaven, none of that was with me anymore. So I didn't have to battle through the carnality or my thinking of what it is. And a lot of the things that I thought would be
very significant for me were not significant when I got there. What was significant is, when I saw the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, well, the Holy Spirit really was in me, they were all connected. You know how I said, we will be in Him, in Him, in us? That's circular. Absolutely. If you think about it. That's a circle too. And it's a continual circle. When I talk about, I looked into His eyes, I'm talking about Jesus, and I saw the love for me. I was the only one He
loved. And then I say, in every moment, He's creating new love for me. That's a circular. It's getting more and more intense. Here's another one. When you get to heaven, you're going to look good. And the next moment, you're going to, I hate to use the word better. I changed it to, just recently, you're going to be more glorified. Because we're moving from glory to glory to glory. Yes. You understand what I mean? It's all more so.
And so it's all circular in its way. And someone said, well, that means you're going to come all the way back to the beginning. No, because it's what you said early. It's more of a spiral. And it keeps getting bigger. Wow. Remember how, well, you weren't there, so you don't remember this. I'm talking to you like, hey, I'm talking to you like, you've been there, you've seen it too, you know all this stuff. I've got it through your books anyway. It's in my imagination.
Well, you also got it in the Holy Spirit. But when I talk about the flowers praising God, and they were in the spin mode, you know what I mean? And there were more of that spinning, I almost say like a tornado. And they were moving around like that. And so that is the best way I could describe the whole process that I saw going on there. The circle spirals, the circle spiral was greater and greater every moment. And it will never end. We have no concept of it not
ending. I'm on a circular journey right now. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. You're going back. Going back. That's right. I'm on my way back. I'm on the circular journey. When you and Phil just recently went out and did the things you did throughout the United States, you know, throughout the United States, you made a circular journey. True. To come back to where you're at. True.
You know, we do that more often than most people realize. Now I would ask Sharon and Phil this question of you two, why would people need to know this? Well, for me, I want everything that we are studying, everything that we are learning to make an impact on us. And if it makes an impact on us and brings us closer to Jesus and brings us deeper into relationship with him, I figure if it works for us, it would work for others. That's very good.
Yeah. Yeah. And when you're talking about the circle, even when I was when I was real young and I was thinking about eternity, thinking it's forever, forever, forever, and ever, and it used to kind of freak me out. And sometimes it's and sometimes it still does. We're never going to die. We're never going to, you know, it's a very unique feeling. World without end. World without end. Remember we used to sing that in church. World without end. Amen. Yeah. Yeah.
I think it's best illustrated for us on the planet by looking at mathematics, because and I'm not I'm not a lover of mathematics. No, I've I've I've loved math. I remember. But but I think the the best way to express it on the planet is you have like a number line.
Okay. So it's it's linear, sort of. But if you I don't even know what part of math study that this is in, but you have like a linear number line that goes infinitely in one direction as positive numbers and infinitely in the other direction as negative numbers. And then they have another plane that goes like up and down that is also negative and positive
that that goes. So you if you expand on that in your mind, you could maybe imagine that there's more planes with more lines going each direction negative and positive so that so that you could build that sphere in numbers. And that that that diagram you were talking about that I sent to you will put a link to it in the show notes. It's the Mandelbrot set. And there was a Jewish mathematician, I want to say in the late 70s, that had this this understanding that there is some kind
of set of numbers that if you plot all those numbers, that it will make a shape. And he was working with the early computers and developed this theory, he plotted it on the computer and printed it out. And it made this kind of odd shape of sort of a circle on top of a circle on with another circle on top, you know, interesting three circles. And it tends to be mostly in the negative numbers. And as computers have developed, people got the idea, let's also plot the numbers
that are close to those numbers and give them a color. And so every different distance from
the Mandelbrot set is plotted with a separate color. And it's amazing to see as the thing that we sent you, it's amazing to see how as the computer goes deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper into the negative numbers, that it is creating these beautiful spiral and pictures of like, there's one section that looks like a like a group of elephants walking together, you know, where the right where the one the trunk of the one grabs the tail of the one in front,
you know, and there's, there's, there's all these different shapes that come out of this idea of these numbers going one direction. And that's what you said, it appeared to be going inward. So I'm sure that there must be some kind of set of numbers that'll do the same thing going outward. I don't, and maybe it just hasn't been discovered yet. But I think it's a good illustration on the planet to understand that you've got infinity going both directions inward and outward.
Okay. Well, the reason I asked that question, because I usually when I'm sharing like this, I'm always wanting to add to somebody, and especially in the sense of helping them to walk on the planet to be able to serve God better in what they're doing. And so, and asking that question, I just wanted to make sure this information is good and is exciting. But I want to make sure that it asks
to us and we grow with it. Now for me, because I have that image of God in the center, and this circular sphere and everything, it changed how I look at everything on the planet, I would think that I would think so. And how I react to things on the planet. And to know that in that environment there in heaven, we all get to see Jesus and the Father all the time. We can never not look upon them. And that image is with me even here on the planet. It's different because of just how
the planet is structured, but it's the same concept that God is always there. He never leaves us no forsaketh. We can always go boldly to the throne of grace. You know what I mean? There's so many things that, and if you think about the image I have in my head, I have nothing to stop me from accessing Him. People always talk about portals and you've heard of people talk about portals. This is a portal. Well, where is it going? It's going to the Father. You understand what I mean?
You understand what I mean? We can say it's going to the heaven, but it's really going to the Father. We talked about the lights, the crowd, remember? On Jesus' head and how that was coming out and coming to everybody. All that is going back to them. Okay. And so I say that to you because in talking about this circular, I'm hoping it expands people's thinking so that they can better serve Christ on the planet. This is one of the scriptures the Lord told me to bring up,
to even relate to this. And it's Nehemiah 9.6. I use it quite often when I'm sharing because I want people to know everything that God creates is alive. Amen. Nothing He creates is dead. So every motion, every circle, every sphere is alive. See law. Let's stop and think about that. Like the will within the will, you understand? Those are beings. And this may go outside of some people's boxes big time. Sometimes when people are ministering, they see spheres.
You know what I mean? Different angels of spheres. I remember one time in Idaho there, one of the greatest outpourings we had, I think I may have shared this before. I used to call what I call deep worship in heaven, consuming fire worship in the old days. And we did a teaching on that in the church there in Coeur d'Alene. And the Lord showed up and powerful and it was really, and I lost it. I don't know if I've shared this with you before,
but I lost it. And the reason I lost it because I didn't think we could get to that intensity of praise and worship on the planet that I experienced in heaven. And when I saw the intensity of the praise and worship that we got there, I didn't want to come out of it. It was like, I'm in the bubble now, as I would say. And I didn't want to come out, to be honest with you. I wanted to stay there. And this was in the early days of the ministry,
maybe three or four years within the traveling around. I think one of the most amazing things that we saw is when I'm expressing this to people of that worship in heaven, and we had people there that we could ask Connor to play certain parts. So I would say to someone, that angel that rose up and started calling everybody in, and there was someone that had a violin. And I think I told you that violin, that A on the violin was the closest I can come
to that sound that I heard in that realm of heaven. And when they played it, as they were playing it, the men in the audience went down on their hands and knees, but they just didn't go down on their hands and knees softly. They bang, bang, bang. They dropped where you could hear them hitting their knees on the floor, like someone dropping a box or a heavy stone or something on the floor. And it was going all over the place. And so, in saying that to you, I believe we were
in that atmosphere. Most people don't realize when they're asking for the atmosphere of heaven, they show up, it's really a spear. It's really a spear that you're going into that spear because that's what we were created to be in. So in saying that to you, I lost it because I did not want to come out of that spear. And the pastor wanted me to explain the spears that were showing up all over the place. Okay. Were they showing up on photographs too? They were showing up all over the place.
It's like these little circles. Yeah. We've seen some of those kind of pictures. Yeah. And those are beings. Those are beings that God's created. And I know some people out there, well, what do you mean? They're angels. They're messages of God. They have a message. And so, some of us need to stop and listen to the message that they're giving us.
Amen. But to go on, what I'm saying is that I lost it in that moment and God had to remind me, I needed to stop and get back to doing what he wanted me to do, which was to share him with the people there because I didn't want to at the time. I just wanted to go away. The way he said it to me was unique. I remember I'm crying like a baby because I did not think we could ever do that on the planet. And I'm crying like a baby. I'm bawling like, thank you, Jesus.
Thank you. I didn't think you could do this. And I remember having a mic as I'm on the floor and it's right there. So, they're hearing me and I didn't care who heard me. And I'm just thanking him for what's going on in the place. And I hear him say, suck it up, son. We got work to do. That's hilarious. I had to get up, suck it up, get off the floor. But I had to explain the spheres that they were seeing all over the place because we had seen them. It was like a conference I did from
Wednesday through Sunday. And they were all over the place and God was using them to minister to people and things like that. But this is what I want to say in this Nehemiah 9, 6. You alone are the Lord. You made the heavens even the highest heavens, along with all their multitudes of stars, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them. You impart life to them all and then the multitudes of heaven worship you. That life that we have within us is
to worship the Lord. And it's our natural breathing like we do of air on the planet. It's what's been putting us to worship Him. That's what the life is all about. And the worship isn't just singing or any of that. The worship is doing His will. And by us doing His will, I see it as a circular motion. He gives us something to do. We do it and we return it back to Him. And that's the worship that we do. One of the reasons maybe why He said obedience is better
than sacrifice. Because the completion of that circle is very important to God. So I think in a lot of what I'm saying here is as we're giving this out, and it's just coming to me as I'm talking, God is wanting to have us to complete that circle. And that is by doing His will on this planet and what He tells us to do. There's a trust that goes into that. You know how He's always saying, trust, you guys know what I'm saying completely. But I really believe it's a circle motion and
that's worship, if you think about it. That whole worship. Because I came to understand in heaven, worship is doing the will of the Father. It's doing His will. You can say doing the will of Jesus, but Jesus literally is getting His will from the Father. And He's portraying that to us on the planet. Everything comes through Him to us because of what He did. And He died on that cross in such a way so that we have the opportunity to be a part of that continual circle now that God
has created. Is that good news or is that good news? That is really, really good news. You know, I get deep in meditation about how our Father is the Father of lights. And how in the Gospel of John chapter 1, it talks about, you know, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. And verse 4 says, in Him was life and the life was the light of men. And the Greek word there for light is phos, which means unkindled
light. It's like it's life light. And, you know, thinking about how they've discovered doing in vitro fertilization of eggs, they see under the microscope this blast of light that takes place in that moment of conception and the light, Jesus said, I'm the light of the world. And then He turned around and said to the disciples, you are the light of the world. And our job is to be that obedient child. I think one of the reasons why it just came to me as you were saying this, to obey
is better than sacrifice. Sacrifice has to do with repairing something that's broken. And if you obey from the get-go, there's nothing broken that has to be repaired. So that's why obedience is better than sacrifice because you don't need sacrifice when you're obeying. Jesus paid the sacrifice and our acceptance of that and just getting into that life light and light life, there's something so
expansive. You know, I remember when we were doing the praise and worship part of the services at our Methodist church here, you know, they have the acolytes that come and light the candle. So we were standing up near the candle and sometimes I would just be, I don't like to use the word mesmerized, but it's kind of like I was taken by this light and you could see the flame,
but there was a global glow around it, a spherical glow around that flame. So it's like the light comes out of the flame and creates a sphere around it. Wow. You know, that's where I think we get, we call our halos from. You know, if you look at the halo, the circle, especially when you look at the Catholics and they put that halo around Jesus Christ, you know what I mean? I remember being in heaven and seeing that halo around Jesus Christ,
you know, what amazed me was just not the halo over there, it was going out too. You could defined it, but it was still moving out. You understand what I'm talking about? It was really interesting. It had the circular shape to it, but it was also moving outside the circle. Wow. But the thing that got me also is the different changes. I think I told you this before,
how he changed every moment he looked different. I really believe that the halo was going out in a circular manner, every form he looked like at that moment. And I know that maybe I'm saying this because I know some people maybe they deem, but I just knew that I was looking at him and he looked different every moment. And I don't usually get into it that deeply because of how we, that's like Akeana that did
that Prince of Peace picture. And I was asked a long time, do you think that's really Jesus? I said, she did the best she could in describing what she saw. Beautiful. You know what I mean? And then I got other people that do the best they can in describing what they saw. I really believe that Jesus in that way shows himself in what we believe. Okay. Now when we get there, we get to see him as he is. And I got to see him as he is.
Okay. And if you go further in that scripture, it says, and we shall be like him. Yeah. I don't know if people are ready for that part of it yet. Well, you know, if you think about all of the stuff that's coming from the dark side in creating characters that are shapeshifters, you know, those dark things probably were shapeshifters made in heaven to begin with. And then they chose the dark side. I'm just seeing Jesus as the number one shapeshifter. Is that safe to say?
I want to make sure that people get on, you know how people are. Sure. They'll take that and they'll say, they're teaching shapeshifting. No, no. And that's not what we're saying here. No. But all I'm saying is that the dark side can't invent anything. Because in the book of Revelation, you see Jesus as the lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. And you see him as the lion, the lion of the tribe of Judas. So he's actually shapeshifting. Did you see any of that? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
We might have to save that for another podcast. Well, and I would love to share those things with people. But like I said earlier, and when we first started, people get into their realm or their boxes and they get stuck, you know, and I don't want to hurt anybody. You know what I mean? And sometimes people want to believe a certain way. It's simple as this, Sharon. When I say you get to heaven, everything is right. There's nothing
wrong. It's past peace. I had a lady come up to me years ago and said, I want peace in heaven. And she almost started crying. Not understanding. What I was saying was that peace is past understanding. You understand what I mean? And she was stuck with, I got to get to heaven, there's got to be peace. And I'm saying, it's past peace. And I don't know if she had her own situation, you was going through or what. But there's people that are out there and she thought
she was advanced in the kingdom of God. She thought she was knowledgeable in the kingdom of God. She thought, oh, I'm one of the chosen ones, you know, that type of thing. But then when she came up and said that to me, I thought, okay, she's stuck. Wow. Get a bribe her. So I'm believing that people that are listening to these, they're going to be able to hear and God's going to advance. And they probably could even share more scriptures than what we have
shared because God does that. Yes, he does. And shape shifting is the world's way of putting it. That's why I used that expression because that's what people understand. Just from the dark side. But the dark side didn't create it. God did. Yeah. Can I mention something real quick? My dad had a picture of it and it was William Branham. Remember they had a halo over his head. Black and white photo. Do you remember that scene that
you're in? Yeah. I remember someone said they had that painting, that picture rather back then hanging in the White House. Oh, wow. Yeah, this was years ago. It's probably not there now based on what administration is, you know. It's probably in the archives somewhere. It's in the archives. Wow. Let's go back to the shape shifting because I just want to read scripture. Yes, absolutely. It's kind of marked the 16th chapter. I'm going to start at the ninth verse because I just want
to bring this into perspective with some of you out there that are listening. When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary of Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. She went and told those who had been with him who were mourning and weeping. When they learned that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it. Okay? No. And that's probably one of our natural response to something that Jesus does sometimes.
Yeah, because we saw him die. Yeah. And then it says, after Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. And that we know that is found in Luke and we can read it. It is the road to the maus, you know. But it does say that he can, and this is the NIV version of it. Let me give you the New King James version because I like the way it says it too. And if anyone's listening, I want them to know it's in the scriptures. I didn't put it in
there. Sharon didn't put it in there. Phil didn't put it in there, but it's in there. This is how it says it. And then after that, he appeared in another form to two of them as they walked and went into the country. Okay? Yes. So there it is in the New King James, the other one was NIV, saying that Jesus could literally transform himself to look different. And I really believe what I was seeing when I was there with the Father of Jesus in heaven was seeing the different forms he could
take on because of how we think he should look, to be honest with you. And I usually say this, and it's kind of weak in the way I say it, I think, to me. It's not his form that saves you, it's Jesus that saves you. And the reason I say that, because we look at the form as being so significant, and the form is not that significant. It's the being that is there, which is Jesus Christ, that is significant. You know, in heaven, you and me talked about this before, and I'll bring
it up again. And we're probably going in a circle. But you know, that's probably, oh, Sharon, something just opened up. Come on. We call it revelation. And I really believe revelation is just us going in a circle over something again, and getting a better, what do you call it? Perspective? Understanding of it. But we already went through that one already. And what hurts those that are not expanding or growing, are moving to the next level, is they stop going in
the circle, if you think about it. They stop growing. You know, they stop going. I read my scriptures back. You probably, you and Phil probably read your Bible, I don't know how many times scripture's how many times. But even though we still can go back to it, and we learn something new every time, or we see something. You know? And so that's that circular motion that we get to go through. I think it's the spiral motion that gets bigger. It gets bigger. If people are doing it
just in a flat circle, a one-dimensional circle, they're going to get stuck. They're not going to go any further. Yeah, I could see that. That circle's in a box now. Well, I was there. I can't tell people. I was in that box too. My circle's in a box. Yeah. You had a lot of experiences that you weren't prepared for. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. But this was one of them. That's the see the different forms. I can remember laying in the hospital room, thinking about this.
And if you would have saw me, you would have saw a puzzle face. I would have one of those puzzle faces. What is going on here? What is this? I know this is what I saw. I get to see him as he is. And I'm seeing him look different every moment as I'm looking at him. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Now there, I was not confused. I was not taken back by it. I wasn't like, wow. But when I got back on the planet in this body and I thought about it, that's when the thing started creeping in. Then what is going
on here? And if it wasn't for this scripture that I read here, that he could transform himself. And then I asked, why didn't anybody say this to me? And I know why, because this would be very controversial in a number of ways, especially in your very dogmatic people that believe a certain way. Yeah. They've got a doctrine instead of an experience. Yeah. But they are not moving in a spiral, as you say, realm. They're still staying in a box realm because they figured it out. That's
the way it is. That's how it is. Limited. But the reality of it is this right here says there's a circular or spiral learning process here. And then, oh man, that is so cool. Yeah. You know? Beautiful. If you really think about it. Yeah. Something that was opened up to me the other day about forgiveness, forgiving people. It says, if you don't forgive, how can he forgive you?
Yes. You want me to forgive. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I always thought, wait a minute, when I got to heaven, there were people, I'm going to say this, some of you may not like it, that's going to hear it, but I'm going to say it anyway. When I got to heaven, none of that stuff that I didn't forgive people for was brought up. Okay. When I got back to earth, I remember thinking in my hospital room, oh, I have an ought against this person. I have an ought against this
person. I need to clean it up. Wow. You know? Someone said, well, you didn't stay. That's why you... No. I knew I could have stayed. I knew God accepted me. But those things were taken care of by him. Glory to God. And I got to be honest with you. I thought I took care of them. But when I got back to earth, I knew I didn't take care of them. I had an ought against my neighbor and I had an ought against a pastor. And I remember I had to make amends to both of them when I got back,
and mainly because we were on the same team. Some of you out there need to hear that. We're on the same team. You may not like everything that we say or agree with everything, but our goal is to get people to know Jesus Christ as the Lord of the Saviour. We're on the same team. Absolutely. And we're not building no cult. You know what I mean? So we may do it different than you do, because that's what God has called us to do, to reach the people that he want to reach.
And a lot of times people disagree with Paul because of who he went to, which was the Gentiles. Remember that? And some of the Jewish people got upset because he went to the Gentiles, but that's who God called him to go to, to minister to. And they didn't have to follow all the laws. And some of the people didn't like that. I think I'm talking to somebody out there right now, Sharon. They've been praying and God is talking to them. And that's why we're bringing
this up. Okay? But the thing I want to go back is that forgiveness, I looked at it different than I ever looked at it before. And I thought, it's a flesh thing. It's God saying we're moving so much in our flesh that we can't move in our spirit and we're disconnected from him because we haven't forgiven that person like God wants us to forgive him. Oh, that's good. There's a disconnection there, you know? Yeah. And how are you going to serve God to the fullness when you haven't
done what he told you to do? It goes back to that trusting and obedience. I liked what you said earlier about being obedient and you don't have to worry about the sacrifice. Yeah. That just came to me when you brought up the scripture. And because I think about how God started my journey on this, the first words he said to me was, trust me. And I felt like if I trust him, then I would have to go back and ask him to forgive me for not trusting him. Well, there you go.
It was like, okay. So I just kind of linked that and I still, someone else out there, that unforgiveness because I know I had those two odds and yet I was still welcomed into heaven. And yet I know that scripture says, if you don't forgive others, how can he forgive you? You understand what I mean? Yeah. And that tells me that there's something I didn't understand in that scripture. And one of them is how it links to our flesh and that it stops me from serving him
to the fullness because of not forgiving someone. Somebody out there, you need to hear that. Can I go a little bit further with that? Because someone needs prayer in that area. Someone's done you harm. They did terrible things to you and you're angry about it. It hurts you. And you're saying, Dean, I will never forgive them or I can't forgive them, but you want to serve God. This is where you're going to have to come into the realization. The love for God is going to have to be greater
than the hatred of the person. And that means you're going to have to ask God to help you because that's who does it. Most of the time we try to do it ourselves, but you need to pray and ask God to help you move to forgive that person. That doesn't mean you put yourself back in the same situation, especially if it's physical abuse or some kind of abuse that you were being, and they were just bad. God is not asking you to put yourself back in that situation. He's asking
you to let him take care of the situation and you move on. That means you forgive them and move on. And sometimes we have a hard time doing that. It comes down to what's greater for you, the love for God or the love that hates someone. I'm using that word the way I'm using it for a reason. Because you may say, I don't love hating someone. Well, then you're putting it in the same realm as the love for God. And so, if you're putting it in the same realm as the love for God,
then you're loving to hate someone. Whoa, somebody knows that in your heart right now. And God is saying, nope, they cannot be in the same area. One's going to be in the area and the other one is not going to be in the area. So, if you say you love God, let it go. Ask God to help you forgive them and move on. And watch how your life changes. I mean, some of you are sick right now and you can't move past the illness because of the love that you have to hate someone or not
to get someone. Okay? And that's keeping you sick. Some of you right now financially, you're having trouble with your finances and you wonder why. That's why you need to move past it. And as soon as you move past it, God will bless you. He will bless you with healing. He will bless you with finances. There are going to be things that happen in your life, relationships, fellowships with family members. Some of you have broken family ship because of the hate that you have
for someone. Okay? And then there's you that are out there that have not forgiven yourself. You say you have, but in reality, you haven't. You always think you're not worthy enough or not good enough. And God's not even asked us to think that way, whether we're worthy or not worthy. He just asks you to do it. It's just a drug deal. And I would say to you, just trust Him. Don't go and try to do it like a Moses. You that read your Bible know what Moses did. And I have the right word to say.
I stutter. Who am I? He just wants you to go forward right now. You could be concerned with all that when you get to heaven. All right? So Sharon, that's what I really feel like. And while I should say this, you're not going to be concerned with it in heaven. You're not even going to think about it. Okay? But the reality of it is that it's something that God is just saying right now, especially during this time period, God is wanting to move forward in a number of areas.
And He wants to use you to be able to move in that direction. Not that you develop what He wants you to do, that He develops what He wants you to do. There's a difference. Because if you develop what He wants you to do, then it's His work. If you develop what you want to do, then it becomes your work. And your work ain't going to go too far. But His work is going to go through that circular or that spiral that me and Sharon and Phil have been talking about. And it's going to get greater
and greater and greater. And you were created for that. So don't even look for an end. Don't look for an end. I just felt like I really needed to say that because of what we were saying today. Someone, Sharon was trapped in their circle. And I like the way you say it's a spiral. God is getting
them out of it. And I feel like from the things that you've been saying, I think it will help people to understand that the pain that we've experienced, the trauma that we've experienced, the hurt, those things are hurting in our flesh, in our emotions, in the carnal part of us, the earthly part of us. Our spirit, the real you is your spirit. And the real you is connected to Holy Spirit. And if Jesus lives inside of you, because you've asked Him to, if Jesus lives inside
of you, He is the master forgiver. He's the one who from the cross where He had been so horribly, horribly treated, hurt more than, hurt way more than any of us have ever been hurt. If you roll all of our hurts together, that's what He went through. And He was the one from the cross that
said, Father, forgive them. They know not what they do. So if you just get in touch with Jesus inside of you and begin to let His words of intercession for the ones who hurt Him, all of us, all of us caused His wounds, then it takes the load off of you and enables you to let it go because your spirit is the real you and you want to be free. The real you wants to be free. And so just let that thing go to Him by letting Him speak through you, Father, forgive them.
They know not what they do. Amen. I didn't know we were going to end up doing that. Yeah, I didn't either. But Jesus did. But I want to always tie it back into the subject we were talking about, the spear, the spiral, you know, as we have covered it today. But the Lord, you know, I just feel there's an urgency. I don't know about you two. There's an urgency that God is pouring out on people, global outpouring,
people along with this. There's an urgency right now that He wants us to understand these things. As you said earlier, those that are listening, they enhance us to do what He wants us to do on the planet. And so we need to know these things because God is really wanting to do more. He just wants to do more. And you that are listening, tag you in. That's good. That is good. Amen. And I'm Philip Buss. God bless you with this overwhelming loving presence.