Me Hi Megan, And that was my terrible attempt at Mike Myer's music do do like you guys needed to see it. She was doing like a full DJ set here and one hand on the headphones, the other hand twist in the record. Sleigh, Sleigh, how are you all? How are you guys? So this weink I have what I would describe as a spooky episode, but it's not really spooky, but like you know, it's what a
movie is based off of, so you're gonna like it. Yeah. So, if y'all remember, was it last year I covered the real life Conjuring movie. I think it was last year, earlier this year, one or the other. Eh, it was some time ago, at some point, at some point in our recording history, I talked about the Conjuring movie. Well, I have another installment for y'all. This one is the Devil Made Me do it? Break it down for me, Nave, let's go and
don't go see the movie. The movie is terrible, probably one of the worst in the Conjuring franchise. Yes, I would definitely say one of the worst in the Conjuring franchise, but it's not the worst. It's not the worst. It is what is that. The last Insidious movie that came out is ass it's so bad. I haven't seen it, but and Carlin was like, they freaking reused scenes from the I didn't even notice. Yeah, Carlin was like, they reused a couple of jump scares, and he was
like, that's the fucking cop out, you know what I mean. Did he say anything about the like the monsters get up in it, the villains get up? No, but he finds that villain super hilarious anyway, Like in the first Insidious he laughs when he pops up on screen and is like, he is funny. But like in the movie, there's a whole bunch of different ghosts and stuff and it is like a thirteen year old got their hands and special effects make up. Oh god, it is so bad.
I was. It actually put me off through the whole movie because it is just terrible. God. But then this movie that we're going to talk about today, in its own right, if it was a standalone movie, it's fine, But as part of the Conjuring series, it's not. The Conjuring I think just started off on such a high. The first two were so good, and then one of the Annabelles was really good. I feel it was the middle one. I feel like it was the I can't remember their
names. I don't know the roommates that originally had Annabelle. No, is that it the one where they're on a firm? Oh my god? And doesn't I can't remember I'm getting them one that I'm on about is So it's like, if you were to go in chronological order of the Annabelle's, it would be the first one, like it's the one about how she How do I describe this? There's Annabelle Comes Home, which was terrible. There was Annabelle. I can't remember their names any hoodles. It's like the second Annabelle
movie. That one's very good, and the first two Conjuring movies are very good. And that's pretty much that are all in the top tier. Wait, hold on, Paranormal Activity? Is that is that in this it was not really in the same like it vision, but it's in the same world because it's demons. I I remember I went to see Paranormal Activity in the cinema for my birthday one year, and I freaking shit myself because it was like for my like tenth birthday or twelfth birthday or some shit, and I
was like that. But then when I rewatch it, I was like, that wasn't scary. It wasn't the first one, I don't think. I think it was like the second one or the third one that we went to go see, the one with all the the one with all the fucking witches or nuns or whatever. Yeah, I don't know, Yeah I don't. I don't like that one either. I don't think that's a very good one. But the very first original one I loved. I when I first saw
I loved it and I was like, Wow, that's so cool. And then I learned that they had multiple different endings and I was like, nah, that just ruins it, Like it ruined the whole Is that real? Even though you knew, oh yeah, you knew it wasn't real, but it also was like, oh, but imagine. And then it was like, oh yeah, but there's like five different endings and you're like you've killed it. Because that was the thing when it came out in the movies,
was like it's this is all based on a real story and whatever. But they can say that, like the movie The Strangers. I remember somebody telling me it's just based on the writer was home alone one night and somebody knocked on his door and he just didn't answer it, and that was it. And I think it's based off real murders where they have masks on. Yeah, that's based off a real murder. I'm pretty sure it was. Oh my god, yeah, yeah, I know it. That's somebody. Okay,
I was lied to anyway. But they can say anything. Is basically they can take a like somewhat true story and they can literally spin it to fit whatever the way they want it and then be like, this is based off true events, because technically is based off of it's like inspired by That is what made me like really scared going to see paranormal activity was the whole. It's based on a true story. And this is found footage. Yeah, which is what we have here, a based off of a true story
event. And I'm about to tell you the true story laid on me. Ernie Cheyenne Johnson was born in nineteen sixty two. Not much is really known about his childhood, Like could barely find where he was born, you know, okay it was there was not much at all. He was described as very friendly and no one really had a bad word to say about him. He would often take his sister's fishing, and he would spend time with them.
I think his mother had I think he had. He either had two or three sisters, and then his mother also took in two nieces, so two of his cousins, oh okay, to care for as well. He sang in the church choir. He was you know, he's a little boy. His parents divorced when he was just four years old. His mother struggled to support Oh yeah, here, his mother struggled to support him and his two sisters and a niece. She'd taken the niece in like full time,
like she basically got custody of Denise. I don't know what the story is behind us, couldn't find it anywhere. There's it is what it is. Ernie had attempted to live with his dad for a little while when he was like roughly I think thirteen or fourteen. He was like entering his like teenage years, and it didn't really go very well, and he ended up having
to move back home to his mom's at sixteen years old. He dropped out of high school to get a job to try help his mother in supporting the family because he was like, I'm the man of the house, you know, like I'm a help out best I can let the girls get like their education and stuff. Oh, bless, now, this is a big gross. When Ernie was just twelve years old, he met Debbie Glatzel. She was working in a supermarket and she accidentally knocked over a display and he went
over to help her. Debbie was nineteen years old. Oh no, I hate everything about that. And she became close friends with Ernie's mother, and then a few years later, Ernie and Debbie began dating despite their seven year age gap. No, it's unclear when, Like, it's unclear when they started dating, Like, it's unclear on whether it was when he was fifteen or when he was seventeen. They say it was from I'm pretty sure they say they started dating when he was seventeen. But then are they just saying
that because that's when he was legal. Yeah, and either way, it's weird. You met him when he was twelve, Yeah, exactly. You watched him grow up and go through like childhood and majorhood. Weird people that watch somebody grow up and then go after them. Yeah. Debbie moved in with Ernie and his family, and it was so that they could save for a house of their own. They were like super duper in love. In
nineteen eighty, the couple found a small house to rent. They accepted it, and the plan was that Ernie and Debbie, along with Ernie's family, would move into this new house. They were all extremely exciting excited about moving in, and Debbie even described it as quote, it was like my dream house. I thought we could build a beautiful life there. The dream sadly didn't last too long. When Debbie, Ernie, and a couple of her family all went to the house to clean, to clean it and prepare it
for life moving in. Yeah, you know, see what needed to be fixed or you know, oh that jazz when something unexpected happened. Oh no. Debbie's brother, David, who was eleven years old, was remarkably close with Ernie, and he often would play with his sister's boyfriend, and you know, he he loved them. He was like, he's part of the family. So he wanted to go with the family and Debbie and Ernie to go clean the house. So they're like, yeah, you come alone,
Yeah, yeah, come on, let's go. When they got to the house. They discovered that the previous tenants had left behind some furniture. I think there was like a sofa, like a table, and then I think there was a bed left in the master bedroom. Okay, David was asked to clean the master bedroom and as he was doing so, he all of a sudden ran screaming from the house. So naturally all the family go out after him, and they're like, what's wrong, What's going on? Why
did you just literally leave the house screaming? Yeah, creepy. He was claiming that he saw an old man who was burnt and blacklocking like who was all like charcoaled, you know, like, and he said that the figure was telling him to beware and to get out of the house. That's nightmare fuel m. In the new documentary, he said that he was pushed onto the bed. I hate that he refused to go back into the house. He waited until everybody was finished doing their jobs. Like he waited outside until
everybody was finished in the house, and then they all went home. They were like telling Debbie's mother about what had happened and what he had claimed to see. And while like Debbie and Ernie and Debbie's mother were all talking. David came out of his room, saying that he was still having visions of the old man, but now he could hear his voice. David said that he could see that the old man had an animal trapped in the house and
that he was torturing it. He could see the animal scratching at the front door, trying to get out of the house. Every time David talked about what he was seeing, like what these visions were, he would add more and more details. Yeah, just leave the kid there, move house. David said that the old man had hooves for feet, and sometimes there would be more men around him. Hooves for feet. That's not very practical,
No, it's really not. Debbie was starting to feel a little uneasy about the move, but they had put quite literally all of their savings into it, so they couldn't really afford to back out. They'd like paid like two months rent in advanced, like plus the deposit and you know for other things as well. So they were like, they kind of can't really get out of this. That's the thing. Everybody just says, like, oh, just get up and move. People can't afford to just get up and move.
Literally the next day, Ernie and Debbie went back to the house to continue setting up for their move when they noticed scratches on the back of the front door. Mixed in with what David had been saying the night previous, they were just like, ah, fucking shit, yeah, of course. Ernie said that when he saw the scratches quote, I was starting to really
question, well, maybe something definitely is wrong here. Despite having paid their two months rent upfront, the couple decided that they just could not move into the house. Ernie's mother wasn't so convinced about what was going on, and she wasn't so convinced that there was actually anything to worry about. She had given her landlord her notice of the move, and she was relying on moving in with Ernie and Debbie. So Ernie's mother moved into the house with her
two daughters and her niece, despite Ernie and Debbie refusing. Ernie and Debbie were left with no other choice but to move in with Debbie's family to try to save some more money, because obviously they put so much into the move. Debbie then claimed that David told her that the old man that he was seeing was angry at him for telling Ernie and Debbie not to move into the house. He began calling the old man the beast, which is what I'll
be referring to it as now on. He said that the beast wanted to take his soul and that the beast would push him and scratch him. Ernie later claimed that quote the fear in this child was overwhelming. Something was going wrong, and I believed him. The next day, Ernie and Debbie decided to take David out for the day, like, took him to like the park and did some things with them. They were like, look, this kid is after seeing something something at the house and so after freaking them out,
and now he's having nightmares. And so they were like, we'll take him out and we'll, you know, cheer them up. Yeah, because even if he didn't see anything, the child is still absolutely terrified. Exactly exactly. Everything was going really well until they got back to the house and David like, they're in Debbie's homehouse now. And they got back to the homehouse and David refused to go back inside. It took a lot of convincing
to get him to go into the house. They finally managed to get him in, and then later that night, David was attacked by an unseen force according to Ernie and David, or Ernie and Debbie. So this happened in Debbie's homehouse, not in the new rented house, not in that in their
homehouse. Why didn't he go into the homehouse. So he was claiming that the beast had followed him from the rented house to his homehouse, and now the beast was mad at him because he told Debbie and Ernie not to move in, and so now the beast wanted his soul so once, even if he was at any house, the beast was following him to any house. Yeah, okay, I get it. So like the beast had like latched onto him, not the house anymore. Ernie said that the scariest part to
me was seeing David go through this with nothing there to do it. David was having convulsions. He would be screaming and cursing, which they claimed was not like him. He was being pushed and beaten around the room. He was getting aggressive, which was also out of character, and the family really struggled with what to do about it. Like they were like, what is going on, Like this is not David, Like he doesn't curse, he
doesn't shout or scream or you know. So they decided that they should go to the church to speak to a priest, and they asked the priest if he could perform an exorcism or any other kind of ritual. So around this time, the church are kind of being like, s No, no, we don't do exorcisms. What that's not us. That's just a stray movie. Yeah, just a silly little movie. Nobody pay attention to that.
No, don't have a popular and pop culture. We only watched that movie recently, The Exorcist, and it's such it holds up, It holds up, it does genuinely. I was surprised. I thought I wasn't gonna like it, but I really do. For a movie that was made in the seventies, like is good and holds up really well. Yeah, and then when you look into like the backstory and stuff of it and you're like,
wow, Okay. The priest that David's family went to for the exorcism denied their request, but said that he would come to the house and he would do a blessing and that he would also do some research for them. So he did just that. He comes to the house, he blesses it, and then he's like, light some candles, pray some harder, and that should save David. Saul, he's got to pay the trolls tall literally.
The Glassals did do just that, but nothing seems to change. David's behavior didn't get any better, and he continued to feel attacked by the beast. The family claimed that at one point David began speaking Latin, which he didn't know, so they did not understand how he could be speaking ith fear his body would be contorted and he would be screaming at the top of his lungs in pain. He stid reciting paragraphs from Paradise Lost, which is a poem
about the devil and how he fell from heaven. And again he's eleven slash twelve. He he doesn't yeh, he's not reciting poems, but he's also not reciting poems about heaven and hell and you know, yeah. The family decided that they had to go back to the priest and ask for help again.
So the priest agreed to go to the house and do another blessing on David, and after he finished, he told the Glattels that it wasn't enough and that they should reach out to a couple who specialized in paranormal activities. Who could it be? Who could it be? He recommended Ed and Lorraine Warren. The Warrens arrived at the family home, and Lorraine immediately noted that the blessing performed by the priest didn't work and that David was still very much
possessed by the demais. Lorraine felt there was a creature in that child's body. She was very dramatic. She believed that the creature was there to cause harm to David and to the Glatto family, including Ernie. The Glastols informed Ed and Lorraine how David's behavior was getting increasingly more aggressive and way out of
control. Debbie felt that the beast was attached to the house and not to the family and wanted to move, but Lorraine was like, no, no, sweetie, that's not how that works, and then basically was like, that's the difference between haunted people and haunted houses. Insightful, Lorraine, Thank you, Lorraine. What would we do without you? The beautiful bastard. The Warrens felt that the only thing that would help David was if the church
performed in exorcism. It takes months for the church to review a case before they agreed to do any exorcisms, so they filled out a form like paperwork. They filled out paperwork to request an exorcism off the church. I wonder is that paperwork available online for me to fill out? Oh my god, can you fill out an exorcism form and stop it? The first thing that comes up is the Archdiocese of Washington request in exorcism, and then you have
the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops Exorcism Amazing Exorcism Protocol. Google. That's how to apply for exorcisms. The Archdiocese of Toronto says, first you should contact your priest and then your priest will meet with the individual to cern their needs. I don't have a priest. Step one already gone. If further assistance is necessary, the priest is to write the Chancellor of Spiritual Affairs outlining
the matter with medical or other supporting documents. Once the case has been received by that office, the file will be opened and have written. A request for assistance will be made to a relevant expert so that a psychosocial spiritual assessment may be completed. That was not a nice sentence for somebody with a lisp. Once the assessment has been returned, the case file is referred to the chancellor for discernment before proceeding. The Chancellor in consultation with the exorcist will decide
on one of the three actions. One, the case should be referred to the exorcist for his discernment and recommendations. Two, the case requires additional medical and or psycho psychological supporting documentation before proceeding further. Three, the case does not require action, and the individual is referred back to the parish for ongoing
pastoral care. And once the recommendation of the exorcist has been obtained, the Chancellor in consultation with the exorcist will provide guidance to the parish priest who made the initial contact with the office. This is a lot of hassles. Do you know what I'd rather just be, to be honest, So David was only getting worse. So Ed told the family that he could perform a minor exorcism, which is basically just a bunch of prayers used to break the influence
on evil and sin in a person's life. He's eleven, what evil in sin does he do? So, while the family were waiting for Ed to like come back and perform this minor exorcism. David's behavior was getting like beyond out of control at this point, ed in Lorraine, and of course it's ed and Lorraine claimed that they've seen David levitating off his bed, and this is when they decided that they were going to record all of their interactions with
David. There are several recordings that the Warrens have of David saying but bizarre things. Look, I heard one of them on the documentary and I couldn't help but laugh a little because in it, he's like, I think I sent it to you. What does he say? Douchebag? Oh yeah, he called. He's like, you're a douchebag. And I'm like, I'm sorry, a demon is using much fouler language than that. Douchebag is,
so like, we're on the playground. Honestly, on one recording, you can hear David saying, quote, Cheyenne dies at work tomorrow, which that's Ernie's middle name. So the next day at work, Ernie reportedly fell twenty feet out of a tree. He suffered a minor knee injury, according to Debbie, but there is absolute no records of this, Like, I mean anywhere. Hm, what did he work as he did? I don't know. Basically, from my understanding, he was like a gardener and like trimmed
trees. Oh okay, So like he'd be up in the tree, you know, like fixing it up, making it great up. Yeah. And so he fell out of the tree. Nobody else like, it's just Ernie and Debbie are like, he fell out of the tree, and he hurt his knee. He scraped his knee real bad, and they're like, and and David last night said that Sha dies at work tomorrow. I don't know. I feel like, if a demon wants you to die at work tomorrow, you're gonna die at work tomorrow. Yeah, You're not gonna just injure
your knee. Yeah. Ernie would often challenge the demon to get out of David's body, like he'd be like, get out of him, leave him alone, and the Warrens would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you doing challenging a demon? Ernie? Come on, and Ernie Powell, what are you doing. On another recording belonging to the Warrens, Aaron Ernie is in the background yelling tell tell him I'll fight him. Come out and fight me like a man. I'll beare knucklebacks
you. Honestly, you're gonna you're threatening to You're threatening to fight a demon. You're threatening to fight a demon. You're not gonna win, babe. Sorry, but this demon is like has like thousands of years of experience against you, and like ed and the rain are like, bro, the fuck did you just do so? Soon after this, Ernie began claiming that he
was seeing a figure and that he was experiencing paranormal activities. Debbie claimed that one day, while they were talking with another, Ernie out of nowhere began growling and his whole body began shaking. She said that she knew it wasn't Ernie, and he has no memory of this. Okay, I'll just take their word for it. By the end of nineteen eighty, David's behavior was so out of control that he attempted to stab Ernie with a knife that he'd
taken from the kitchen. He claimed that the beast had called on more demons to possess his body, and Lorraine, at a later point, claimed that David was possessed by not one, not two, and not three demons. But forty three demons. Forty three, he had his own ten, he had his own board of directors, Like, how do you get together? Hew? Does one demon? How does I want to know? Did the
beast like go to his friends? Was it a pyramid scheme? I have got this kid, and he's a little fucking shit and he ruined my plans to possess a whole damn house. So now I need all of y'all's help to bring this motherfucker down. And also his brother in law threatened to fight me, So we got to teach these little shits what we got. Can you imagine that is like a split screen with like forty seven It's like a zoom meeting at Zoom meeting. If we could meet tomorrow nine am and we'll
loop back around by EOD nine am, doesn't work for me. I have plans to possess this other kid. Look, if you can make it for at least two that would be great. That would be great, great. I'll clear my schedule for the rest of the day. So, according to Ed and Lorraine and to the glattal family, priests came to the family home to perform a second blessing on the house. And Ed helped perform a minor exit. The family claimed that David had four minor exorcisms, with one stopping
his heart and something happened to administer CPR. The family believed that the minor exorcisms worked and that the demons were expelled from his body. They said that things began to settle, but David he was still having a few behavioral issues and he was suffering a few psychological issues. But they're like the demons were going to do but you would you would expect it if you were actually possessed
by forty odd demons. Everything was returning to normal for the Glattals. Ernie and Debbie were getting more work again because like everyone kind of halted life to watch David and make sure that he was okay, and nothing like awful happened to him. So Debbie got a new job and a kennel. This is where she meets Alan Bono Bono whenever you want to call him. Everyone in the documentary was calling him Bono, and it was really annoying me because his
name is spelt the same as Bono from the singer of You Two. So why we don't know who you're talking about? We don't claim that man Alan was the manager of the kennel. Ernie claimed that despite everything calming down for David, he was still having visions of the demon and he was feeling strange. He believed that challenging the demons in David had worked and it caused them to jump into his body, and that something had latched on to him.
Debbie said that Ernie would enter a trance like state where he would begin growling, and he would say that he saw the beast, and Ernie would claim that he would never have any memory of this. Imagine if your partner just started growling. I would piss myself laughing, and then I would walk away from pure and utter embarrassment and be like, and we're okay. I'm okay. I don't need a grown man that rails at people. If you're growling at strangers, you got a problem. Yeah, yeah, that's not good.
We're going to take a quick outbreak and we're back. Growl Oh brah means I love you in Dinosaur. Sorry, I'm just having visions. She's like, he's growling at people, and it's Buddy is shaking and he's just like In January nineteen eighty one, Ernie and Debbie move into an apartment that is owned by Debbie's boss Alan. He's like the manager of the apartment complex. I think it's his sister that owns it, and he just like runs it. Ernie's two sisters and his cousin moved in with them as well.
According to Ernie's mother, him and Alan got on really well and they spent a lot of time together. However, on February sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, Ernie, Alan, Debbie, and Ernie's sisters all went to a cafe called the Mugan Munch. According to the witnesses, at the restaurant, Alan and Ernie had about fourteen to fifteen glasses of wine between them. This is for breakfast and no, it's like evening time. They have like a bottle and a half of wine each just at dinner. It's been done. The
party was at the cafe. You know, they're all having a good time. They're there for about three hours just living it up, and then they all leave the restaurant or a cafe whatever, and they go back to the apartment. At about six thirty pm. According to Ernie and Debbie, Alan made an inappropriate comment about Debbie, which made her uncomfortable. This led to a ribe between Alan and Ernie and things got heeded between the two of them.
They ended up outside fighting outside and it turned physical. During the fight, Ernie took out a five inch pocket knife and began stabbing Alan. He stabbed Alan four times in the stomach. Alan fell to the ground, Ernie dropped the knife and Ernie walked towards the woods. Ernie claims to have no memory of this. Debbie ran inside rang her father for help. Nine one one would have worked. Two but some of us would have called for help,
you know, from medical professionals. But your dad works too. Yeah. Yeah. Debbie's dad arrives at the scene and an ambulance is called in and around the same time, the paramedics found Alan lying on his back, alive, but in an unbelievably bad way. One of the paramedics testified that at the scene of the crime, he overheard Debbie tell her father quote, oh, daddy, he didn't mean to do it. You know how he gets when he's been drinking. Oh oh no. Debbie's father informed the police
that it was Ernie who had stabbed Alan. Alan was taken to Danbury Hospital where he sadly passed away from his injuries. Shortly after arriving, Ernie was found by police roughly about an hour later, a couple of miles from the scene. He was arrested and charged with the murder of Alan Bono. He was taken to Bridgeport Correctional Center and his bail was set for one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars. Soon after Ernie's arrest, though, Warrens began getting
involved. Of course, they talked about how it appeared to look like an argument gone wrong, but it was in fact a demonic possession. Okay. Lorraine claimed that the demons that had been in David had possessed Ernie. They wanted to ruin Ernie's life because he had challenged them, and they said that he was possessed at the time of his murder. At the time of the murder, but the demons had since left his body. Oh perfect, great timing, great, great, great timing. Wait was it all the forty
odd It's unclear. They never say how many demons were in Ernie. Unintended. Now, police would normally ignore such claims, you know, they'd be like, okay, take your demonic possession. And shove that up your asshole. But the Church were alleged to have been involved with David's miner's minorcisms, and so this gave the Warrens claims credibility. The public went absolutely not over what the Warrens were saying. The Catholic Church confirmed that David's family had appealed
for an exorcism. They said that a priest was sent out to investigate whether an exorcism was necessary, but said police said priest failed to turn in his report and he was unreachable as he was out of the country on a mission. I thought you were going to say on holiday, and I was like, holiday, priests deserve holidays, Tom Megan, I'm sure they do. The church refused to comment on the case after that and never did. Like after that radio silence, the Church would not confirm or deny nothing. I
mean, they said what they have to say. There's not much more that they can do. The Warrens went on many talk shows and radio shows to talk about Ernie's possession. They talked about how it was going to be the first case in America to use possession as defense. Ernie's court appointed lawyer would refuse to comment on what the Warrens were talking about. He was like not
having any of it, and he was soon replaced by Martin Manella. Martin Manella was super interested in this case and he even took it on pro bono. I mean, I get it because it's like the whole the defense is going to be very interesting. But I don't know, even if I was a big shot, big time lawyer, I think I would stay fair away
from something like that. Yeah. On March nineteenth, nineteen eighty one, Ernie was indicted quite literally after the judge heard evidence, like twenty five minutes into the indictment, the judge was like, guy, I've heard enough, and yeah, yeah, we're going to trial. Okay, yeah, perfect. Martin he is loving the media attention and he's like doing interviews and shit lawyers. Yeah, the lawyer. He told the media that he intended to
argue that Ernie's actions were caused by demonic possession. He then set up a fund to try raise money for the cost of Ernie's defense. He reportedly was planning on like bringing in priests and like members of the church to talk about demonic possession, making a scene, basically making a scene, basically indeed is correct. The media became obsessed with the case because they really wanted to see
how that kind of defense would play out in a court of law. It was unclear if the church would be asked to testify for a little while, and Martin told the media quote, I hope the priests will have enough moral conscious to come forward your haskan priests to have a moral conscious in your client
stab a man four times and then walk into the woods. Okay, but yeah, yeah, I sure hope the priests have moral conscious The warrants talked about how they were disappointed in the church because they were refusing to confirm or deny their involvement. Meanwhile, members of the church had commented that the claims so members of the church had claimed that claims of possession were often the result of a mental illness that required the attention of a medical professional. Yeah,
fair enough. Can we just snaps and claps for those members of the church, because at least somebody from the church was like, I mean, they're probably just mentally ill. Yeah, they probably just need like professional help. The Warrens were claiming to the media that they had a really close working relationship with the Catholic Church. But once again the Catholic Church were like, no, I'm not saying nothing. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. You
don't know me. When Ernie's trial began on October twenty eighth, nineteen eighty one, the judge refused to allow the defense of demonic possession. Quote evidence of demonic possession is simply not relevant. I mean, at the end of the day, there is a man dead and you did kill that. There are witnesses to say that you killed the man. His own sisters. His own sisters were like, yeah, he stabbed him. Yeah, there's no
refuting it. Debbie tried to say that she didn't see him stab him, but like his sisters were like, yeah, we saw him take out a knife, stab him, drop the knife, and then make his way into the woods. Yeah. Like this is really just does he go into it like a mental institution or does he go to jail. Yeah. The judge had learned of Martin's defense in the media, and he learned that Martin was
intending on calling priests to the stand to testify to discuss demonic possession. The judge felt that quote such a defense could not be reliable and could mislead the jury, which, yeah, like what does demonic possession have to do with anything? When it boiled down to it, did he stab him? Yes? He did? Like what more is there to it? You know? Like yeah, in a panic, Martin requests requested a recess because he was like, I'm going to have to try to come up with the new fucking
defense m h, because my plans are fucked. So the judge is like, yeah, sure, we'll take a recess. You come up with a new defense, and then we'll come back, you know, try this again. And Martin went out to the media that were stood outside the courthouse and was like, this judge has anti Catholic bias. Oh oh, that's not fair, and he should disqualify himself from the case. Can you imagine being the judge watching that in your chambers, You'd be like, bro, I
give you the recess. The prosecution like they had a clean case, you know what I mean, Like they were like Ernie killed Alan Bono in a drunken argument gone wrong, Like yeah, what else is there to this? Martin Manella was left with no other option but to scrap his demonic possession claim, and he decided to argue that Ernie killed Alan in self defense of his
family. They claimed that Alan had started a fight. He also said that Alan grabbed Ernie's youngest sister, who was nine at the time of the murder, and he tried to take her into his apartment, and that's why Ernie stabbed him. Now, to my knowledge from my research, this didn't come like this was the first time that like that had been said. Like, there was no mention of Alan trying to I don't know, kidnap what like. Yeah, it was very roch. There was very much like grasping at
straws here, and he's not there to defend himself from that. Literally. Martin did still try to call some prists to the stand, and he was warned very quickly by the judge to watch his line of questioning. When the jury was going off to deliberate, the judge told them to only consider the evidence giving at trial and to ignore any media influence, meaning to ignore all theory of demonic possession had no business being in the courtroom and so therefore it
had no business being like questioned by the jury. Yeah, fair enough. After about fifteen minutes of deliberation, the jury was deadlocked. So the judge was like, Hey, why don't you remember and talk about a case that had happened a few years previous where basically the jurors had deadlocked and what ended up happening is the minority just agreed with the majority. He was like, basically like, why don't you just talk about that time that the minority had
respected the intelligence of the majority. Oh so, he said, you are stupid. You are very, very stupid. The jury like, despite being told not to, the jury were like, but what if he was possessed and that's why he did it. I don't know. Whenever you hear if you're in a jury and you hear something and then the judge says not to pay attention to it, and it's been such a major part of the case,
obviously you're going to, yeah, think about it. After sixteen hours, the jury found Irony guilty of manslaughter because they were like, he was he was being charged with first degree murder. But the jury were like, no, I don't think he went outside in the argument with the intent of killing him. I like, and I would agree with that, Like, I do very Look, I don't fully believe that he was possessed, but
I do think that he did not intend on killing the man. Yeah, and I very much believe that it was manslaughter, not like a planned out murder. On December sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, Ernie was sentenced to the maximum sentence, which is ten to twenty years in prison. The judge said that he felt that he had no other option but to give the maximum as Ernie just seemed to lack remorse. This upset Debbie, who yelled out that's sick before storming out of the courthouse. There's a man dead, Debbie.
You know what's also sick, Debbie, is that your boyfriend stobbed a man to death. Yeah, that is pretty sick. And then you decided to call your father instead of he might have lived if you called the ambulance a bit quicker, Yeah, exactly, because he was alive. So like, I'm not saying it's your fault, Debbie, but also you didn't help. Can I just imagine, right, imagine you have been stabbed, You're lying on the floor, you need help. There are a bunch of people around,
because there was a few of them there. You see one of them pick up a phone and you're like, oh, thank god, they're getting me help. And then you hear god Dad, alright, excuse me. They appealed the judge's decisions soon after, but in March nineteen eighty two, Ernie requested that the appeal be withdrawn. He was like, nah, I just leave it. I accept my fate. Now this is where things get interesting. And I think this is, to me, the most important paragraph
of this whole story. Okay, So Debbie had three brothers, the oldest being Carol, and he remembers what happened in nineteen eighty a little differently, just dis mission, just dismission. Carl claims that when he was only he was about fourteen fifteen. He remembers like the years of his early teens being a very upsetting time and he had a lot of feeling of helplessness as David, who was the youngest. So he the youngest. I think Debbie was the oldest, and then it was Carl, and then it was I think
his name is Alan, and then David. Okay, David's emotional and mental health was starting to decline. Carl claims that David was beginning to show signs of behavioral issues. He was struggling with learning disabilities in school, and Carl claims that by nineteen eighty David was starting to suffer from seizures and delusions. He said that his family had watched The Exorcist shortly before they all went over to help clean Ernie and Debbie's new home. Oh okay, just a fun
little fact. Not at all, anything that could influence somebody. Not at all, something that would influence an eleven year old. Oh no, not at all. He also said that the Warrens came to interview David, like when they had been called and they came, they came, and they like
interviewed David, and they questioned him about what he was experiencing. And then the Warrens turned to talk to their mother, but in front of David, and they talked to the mother about how if they don't get control of this possession, like he'll start to shout and spit and curse and vaults and in front of David, and then, shocking me enough, soon after that he started doing all of those things. Yeah, maybe a smidge bit influenced. Yes. Carl talked about how his father was the only one. Him and
his father were the only ones to not believe the possession. He recalled how David had been screaming and cursing because of this quote unquote possession, and the mother is trying to calm him down, and she's like, I'm your mother.
Come back to me, David, like you know, like fight the devil and come back to me. And then their dad walks into the room, picks up David yells at him to like sit the fuck down, stop what you're doing, and then he walks out of the room and shocking me enough, the demon listened what a demon listens to dad crazy, He stops like what he's doing, and he just like shut up, like and like right, Carol is like that to me, is like solid telling, you
know, because everyone's afraid of their dad, do you know what I mean? Hmmm, And so he's like, wow, even the demon was scared of my dad. Carol described this part of his childhood as a living nightmare. He said that his family was not in any way religious until all of this started happening with David. His family believed that David's problems were all caused from something spiritual, but he just felt that his brother needed to see a
doctor. That must be a really lonely experience as well. I know he had his dad. But when you're like, no, he just needs to go see a medical professional, and then and then and then like your mother is like, let's go bring him to the priests. Yeah, he's got demons in his blood. Yeah, it's like what No. Carl believes that his family went out to seek the help of the Warrens themselves. So the Glattals claimed that the priest referred them onto the Warrens, but Carl believes that
his family just went and found them themselves. It's also believed that Debbie had attended at least one of their seminaris before David was Oh okay Debbie, mm hmm. Carl feels as though the Warrens exploited his family and only saw them
as a gold mind. Carl had actually gone with his father to the scene of the crime when Debbie had called, and he is still very much haunted by seeing Alan Bono lying on the ground dying, of course, and like he believes that like Ernie is solely responsible for that, and like in the interview, like he's like like a man died, like he killed somebody, Yeah, do you know, Like and he's like that seems to be like forgotten. Do you know, like, hm hmm, it's the main point
of what's going on here. Yeah, And when their mother passed away, Carol claims that he found diaries belonging to his mother in which she wrote about how she basically was slipping sleeping pills into their dinner. What excuse me, ma'am. That is a crime. And he recalls about how like her dinner used to always be separate from everybody else's, like it used to be in its own dish. Oh. Yes, And he's like, if she was slipping us sleeping pills. I can't remember the name of them he mentioned,
like a brand. He was like, if she was slipping us those, especially like David who was so young at the time, this would cause hallucinations, like convulsions, seizures, like all all of that stuff. And so he kind of is like, to me, that explains that. That's why David believes he was possessed. M m. But I can understand that it. No, that's not what happened to you. Now. David is like, no, my mother would have never drugged us, but her journals say
otherwise. Mm hmm, yeah. Yeah. And after Ernie's trial was oh where their mother went to Los Angeles with the Warrens to like go on TV to do like these TV interviews, so really drawing attention to everything. Yeah, and the Warrens promised them a lot of money for a book deal and told the Glassls that to make the scary, to make the story scary, because that's what that's what would sell. Oh, perfect, that's great from the Warrens. Never expected that. What So this case has never fully been
forgotten about. In nineteen eighty three, a friend of the Warrens wrote the nonfiction like It was a friend of them that wrote this book, The Devil in Connecticut, And it was classed as a non fiction, but they were told to make it scary, so it's a fiction. Yeah. The book was turned into a made for TV movie starring Kevin Bacon. The Demon Murder Case is okay, Well, if Kevin Bacon is in it, then it's
fucking scary. Ernie and Debbie got married in January nineteen eighty five while he was serving out his sentence, got that jail house love, and after five years, five fricking years, Ernie was released for being a model prisoner in That's not justice, It's not any semblance of justice. In two thousand and seven, David and Carl sued the author of The Devil in Connecticut, and they felt that as children they were exploited and that the book exploited what as
a whole the family went through. I mean, I get that somebody else writes about your family. Now, David and Carl have two different opinions as
what happened in those years. David feels as though his story was exploited for entertainment and his hell like what he went through, and you know where Carl feels as though the pain that his family went through and the ordeal of like because he's like, no, my brother was not possessed, like he just was mentally ill and therefore, like you are taking advantage of like a mentally
ill kid. Mm hmm. But unfortunately, the court favored with the author as their mother had signed forms for the author to use all of this inform and at the time they would have been minors, so which is upsetting for them because I at the end of the day, it's still is their story and it's something that happened to them. Yeah, as we know, the Warrens then have been turned into this magical franchise. The conjuring, and they released the movie The Devil Made Me Do It. Debbie passed away in twenty
twenty one. Oh okay, Ernie is still very much alive. And as far as I know, none of the family speak. That's sad because I guess all the drama would push you away. Yes, and Ernie and Debbie like fully believe he was possessed and he did not kill Alan Bono like the Devil made him do that. Carol very much is of the belief, like, no, you got drunk, you killed a man. Yeah, And you know, I'm kind of inclined to agree with Carol. Yeah, I
kind of am too. Yeah, And I think it's very very sad that a man's death was almost like overshadowed, do you know what I mean, Like along the way, like the Warrens and the fucking lawyer lost sight of No, he killed somebody. Yeah, there's a family out there missing somebody
right now. Yeah. And according to David, the Warrens like sold him a dream in order to get their book deal, like they were like, you're gonna be a multimillion dollar Like you know, you're gonna make so much money off of this, And in the end, the Glassals were paid something like four thousand, five hundred dollars and for the book, and the Warrens were paid like hundreds of thousands. That's rough. Warrens took them for a
wild ride. The more like, the more I learn about the Warrens, yeah, the more I don't like them, Like probably if you listen back on old episodes of ours, we're like, fuck, yeah, the Warrens. But the more, like you say, the more I learn more, I'm like, oh no, that's gross. Yeah, and like I do enjoy the movies, like half of them are shit, but like also like
they are entertaining. Like we were talking earlier, it's the fictional Warrens we love literally and then like you learn that like they literally took this family for a fucking ride, do you know what I mean? Like now it's completely like of your own beliefs on whether you want to believe if David was possessed or not, Like that's up to you. That's your beliefs, that's you know, mm hmmm. The Warrens saw a family where they believed their child
was possessed, and they thought to themselves, easy fucking money. Like Carol talks about how like, oh, how convenient. Like the child is in convulsions, like yelling fucking profanities like and it's like you're gonna die, You're gonna die. Mm And the Warrens, he's like the first thing they do is whip out their recording devices and start taking pictures of them. M m. Do you know, Like he's like, instead of helping him, they
want to record them. But then at the same time, with that having been said, I feel like when there are no recordings are and there are no picture, nobody believes say the same thing. We were like, well, why didn't anybody record it? Why didn't anybody take pictures? I'm not though, Like so in the documentary you can see photos, like they show actual photos and like in a few of the photos, like the microphones like here, oh like it's in the child's face yeah, right up at his
neck. Yeah, and you're like, what give him some room? Yeah, you're like whatever is that? Like honestly, whatever happened to David, Like whatever it was, he needed help and he didn't fully get it. Yeah. Now he like, as I said, like he is like, no, I was possessed. Mm hmmm, Like he's he fully believes he was and like, at the end of the day, we weren't there.
It didn't happen to us, it happened to him. So but then I think as well as an eleven twelve year old, like if like Ed Warren comes along and it's like you're possessed, You're gonna be like, Ohm, I gonna shit, I'm possessed. Yeah. Of course. I mean, your parents tell you something at that age and you take it as truth as well. So if his mother is telling him you're possessed, you had this,
you're gonna believe it too. Yeah. I also find it very telling though that like they weren't a super religious family and then they became one, because Karen is like when the mother is doing all the interviews, like she talks about her they always went to church and God and this and that, and he's like, no, we're very like we basically never went to church. Yeah, and then he's like and then all this started happening, and then all of a sudden, his mother was like, Okay, church yeah.
But then in the same breath, if I did think something like that was happening to my child, I wo okay church yeah. Because as well as that, like that's what movies teach you, do you know what I mean? Mm hmmm, like they teach you like, oh the demons after you. So you you you gotta go to church. You gotta believe in God. Now that's the devil made me do it. You guys, I would love to hear your thoughts on all of that, like all of it. Do you think David was possessed? Do you think Ernie was possessed?
Do you think Ernie should have been sentenced to life in prison? Because I'm done his life in prison five years for murdering somebody? Are you freaking kidding me? Yeah? It doesn't sit right with me. Like, even if like he was possessed, it was still his body that murdered somebody. And you mean to tell me that you're only going to do five freakin' years for that. Yeah, there's like we keep saying, there is a man dead, somebody died. Debbie, Yeah, Derby, that's fucking sick. You're
sick. Okay? How old was Ernie again? You got with well, Ernie was like nineteen when he murdered Alan Bono. So, Debbie, what's more sick? A judge sentencing sentencing a man for a crime that he committed, or you watching a preteen grow up and getting him with him while he is still eighteen and you're in your what twenties, you're sick, fucking freak.
Yeah, well, we really hope you liked this episode. If you did, and you haven't already done so, check out our other episodes, which you obviously know where to find us, because that's where you're listening to us. But in case you don't know where to find us, that's Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Please please sponsor us. We didn't really like the sponsorship now, guys, I'm saying it enough.
Yeah, for only three years down the line. Here if you want to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Twitter, all the all the social medias that were not very active on but sometimes we are and it's a lot going on, okay, you guys. But if you want to follow us on all of those for updates on new episodes, you can do so,
all of which are at give us More. If you want to see who you're listening to, you can check out our own personal instagrams, which is at meg Pile, Underscore and that life is me, and you can also check out our website which is www dot give usmor dot com, where you can purchase some merge if you wanna, or you sure can to our coffee fund, which we do run off. I don't know if anybody has ever noticed the skeletons in our logo. One has a red bullcan, one
has a coffee cup because we literally live off caffeine. Hence why my heart is going better, Pitch butter. Yeah, you can also leave us a review. That's always super nice. We always super appreciate that. And if you have any suggestions on any episode that you would like us to cover it, don't ever be afraid to dm us. Yeah, and I think that's all I got to say. Well, thank you. I have nothing to say either. I hope you're having a spectacular October. WHOA, well spectacular
Yeah, we'll get the big word she said, the S word. Oh. I hope you're enjoying spooky season and let us know what you're dressing up. That's for Halloween. Okay, Well, we'll see you next week for another spooky episode because it octop all right, see you next week. Saloncha rocking out