¶ Introducing Chris Schultz of Voodoo Donuts
Welcome to another edition of Give an Ovation , the restaurant guest experience podcast , where I talk to industry experts to get their strategies and tactics you can use to create a five-star guest experience .
This podcast is sponsored by Ovation , an operations and guest recovery platform for multi-unit restaurants that gives all the answers without annoying guests with all the questions . And today we have Chris Schultz on the podcast with us . He is the CEO at Voodoo Donuts , but he is no noob to the restaurant industry . He's been at Starbucks 13 years , mod nine years .
I mean , he has got experience and he's been CEO of Voodoo for over seven years . Now . You hit your seven year anniversary recently , right yeah it kind of just flew by .
But yeah , seven , almost eight years now coming up on eight years here at Zoodoo , so it's been a kind of whirlwind .
That's awesome and you're doing some amazing things . You have such a you're at the helm of such a cool brand , and one of the things that I kind of want to unpack is a little bit of the secret sauce . Here and right before the podcast , we were showing off our respective hats and you showed me a hat .
Tell me the story of this , because I feel like this encapsulates so much of why Voodoo is doing so well and why you're constantly trying new things and how you celebrate
¶ Wallpaper of Failure: Celebrating Experimental Donuts
that .
Yeah , so I'm a consumer , just like everybody else . You're a consumer , we're all consumers , right ? And you go to brands and you see what they do well , and then you shamelessly steal as best you can , right ? You're like how do we make it our own ?
That's called R&D , which is Rob and Duplicate .
Exactly . And I was at a concept there in Salt Lake and they had put up all their one-star Yelp reviews on wallpaper in their bathroom this place is horrible , the food's terrible and I was like , okay , they're accepting the fact that this is what it is . And so I came back to my team and challenged them like what can we do ? That reminisces that .
So we at Voodoo try a lot of donuts . Not all work . We're kind of famously known for doing a NyQuil donut . Back in the day we put NyQuil on a donut . We put that Bismalt on a donut , like real NyQuil and Pepto-Bismol . Oh , do you not know this story ? So back in the day the founders actually made a NyQuil donut .
So they put NyQuil in the frosting and then you would get a shot glass full of NyQuil along with the donut . And they sold it for a day . And the FDA came in and said , hey , just a heads up , that little thing on the side of the bottle is a warning . You cannot put medicine in food . You can't do that .
And the founders being marketers they were they went to the local paper and said , hey , the FDA , the man's trying to stop us , right , we're just this little donut shop in Portland and they got a ton of pressure from it . Just a ton of press and so they need to tap the Bismol Donuts . There's an oyster house right next to our first store .
They would run over and get a fresh oyster every time someone ordered an oyster donut . We've done a salmon donut . We've just done it . Most recently we did a sriracha donut . It was maple glazed with sriracha on the top and fresh ground ramen . We put sriracha on it . Historically it was around $4.20 .
Surprise , but we do a lot of donuts . I don't get it . Why ?
Yeah I know Some work and some don't , but what we did was we ended up making our own wallpaper with all of our donut failures , everything that you would imagine just didn't work . So now in most of our stores there's a wall somewhere with this wallpaper with all these crazy donuts that you're like that can't be a donut .
Yeah , we tried those , and so we're sure we have a hack that actually has all the donuts on them . All the different donuts we've done . We put slingin' on a donut , we put salmon on a donut . We've tried everything . You name it . We've tried it .
One , why do you do that ? And two , I want to make a point about the failure which I think is amazing . The question is why not right , I think , when you put limitations on yourself ? Wait , why not put NyQuil on a donut ?
Well , chris , yeah , well listen , I think there are extremes , there are curves and we've jumped a few curves but we're on a palliative ourselves . We don't apologize for much here at Voodoo . We're in the donut business . Let's just be honest . We feed people and we feed them really good donuts and why not have some fun with it ?
And I think a lot of people have kind of tracked in behind us . Think of some of these ice cream shops that have turkey gravy ice cream and all those things that think about it . 10 years ago you would have been like what Ben and Jerry's kind of started it , but all these unique donut shops or ice cream shops are now doing it .
I like to think we're in the forefront of that . Nike will probably be a little bit far , but pushing
¶ Innovation, Failure, and Thinking Outside the Box
the envelope a little bit .
Yeah , you got to push the envelope to know when it's going to open .
Yeah , and someone will tell us it's too far , as the FDA did for us , but it's just part of having fun and part of innovation and part of not taking yourself too seriously and really kind of enjoying the journey .
It's fun for our team , it's fun for our customers , it gives them something to talk about and , again , if you're not failing , you're not trying , and it's such a powerful tool to encourage your team to fail and you know to fail within boundaries and , in the case of NyQuil , to fail really quickly and then stop it .
But those are things that I think are so powerful when you're able to teach them that , hey , failure is okay . What's not okay is not trying new things .
One of the messages I tell my team every once in a while , I'm not saying what were you thinking ? You're not thinking enough , you're just not thinking enough . And so we challenge our store managers , we challenge everybody in the building that if , every once in a while , chris isn't saying what are you thinking , what were you thinking ? You're not thinking enough .
You're not . We're people serving people , right , we're in the restaurant business and everyone has their own ideas . And again , bring them to life , let them breathe . We have some great donuts that are marketing team and then our HR team , and they come up with really good ideas Like , well , let's try it , let's taste it , let's see what happens .
So innovation doesn't just come from one person or from one idea , right , I think in the restaurant business , you have to be willing to listen to everybody , including our customers .
Yeah , there we go . Powerful lesson , so let's talk about those customers . What do you think is the most important aspect of guest experience nowadays , chris ?
¶ The Human Connection in Guest Experience
I think that today , in today's world , right , the guest experience is becoming more and more important , right ? I mean , we talked about , we went through COVID . I think a lot of people thought , boy , you know , ghost kitchens and walk-up windows and drive-thrus and all those things were going to be .
That was going to be our new , the way we're going to live our lives in the restaurant business .
By the way , thank you for not saying the new N . It's like what is like ? Oh my gosh , if I hear that word one more time .
Yeah , and I think we all thought that was going to be the world , and I think , with the reality , as we all learned , it's not the end of the world , right , that's not the way it's going . It's back about engagement , and engagement can also happen in a drive-thru , it can happen in a walk-up window , it can happen in a pickup .
All that can happen in those experiences as well , and we forgot , I think , at some point in time , that we're still humans and we like the human connection . We like the human experience . I was just reading an interesting quote that came out of Brett Ecava and he said 64% of his customers want human engagement . They require human engagement .
It just came out yesterday and I was like , well , that's really interesting , right , where he's done a study where a big portion of his customers still want the engagement . They don't want to talk to a kiosk , they want to engage . And so for us , I think the important part of Voodoo , especially for us , it's about the experience .
Many times you go to Voodoo and we're long lines . There's no doubt about it . We drive long lines and if you're going to stay in line for 30 minutes , you better get engagement when you walk in the door . And engagement comes from everything from , not just the counter person , right the music , the lighting , everything it feels that's going on inside that store .
So for us , it's all about that engagement right now . Right , if you want to take an hour ordering a dozen donuts , take an hour , take an hour , you deserve it . Take as long as you want . We don't have timers , I don't track ticket times .
Oh really .
Yeah , and maybe I should right . Maybe I'm crazy , but remember I came from a world of ticket times Starbucks ticket times , right , mod pizza ticket times . How fast could you move people through and not make it just a transaction ? Well , that's a happy balance .
Right At Voodoo , I never wanted to be a transaction , I wanted to be as fast or slow as you want it to be , and so that's where I think the new consumer is going and I think we're all starting to recognize that . You know more and more and more . And it's not just about I want to order my phone , I want it really quick .
Some customers do , we have to , we have to gap to those customers , but there's a whole part of those customers who still want someone to say hello and goodbye .
I can't agree with you more , chris , and longtime listeners will be able to recite this with me , but I really do believe that there's three cons when it comes to loyalty . There's the convenience , which is gonna get them in , there's the consistency , which is gonna get them back , and there's the connection , which is really gonna keep them for a lifetime .
And if you're in that consistency which is , by the way , darn hard to be fully consistent If you're there , you're still replaceable .
You're still just one mistake away from getting out of the rotation for a year , but if you have that connection , that mistake is forgiven so much faster because they know that that brand cares about them , and if they know that you care about them , they're going to care so much more about you .
If you don't care about them , they'll care a lot less about them , and if they know that you care about them , they're going to care so much more about you If you don't care about them , they'll care a lot less about you .
Yeah , I think the reality of it is we're all not watching our dollars when we spend them , and so that connection becomes even more important now than it ever was . And the best message I've heard is they said I went to , we had a great time . I said what'd you get ? And they're like I don't even know the donuts I got .
I don't remember , but I remember I had a lot of fun and to me that's a win . Right , that's a win . I mean , everyone can tell me about the great bacon maple bar we made , but tell me about the experience you had . I'm much more excited when you tell me I went , I had a great time .
Think about this right . How many places sell donuts ? Can someone go into a Voodoo Donut and make a bootleg copy of your maple bacon bar ? Yeah , sure they can . Yes , there's maple bacon bars . The question is , why do people wait when there's 20 donut shops within a 15-minute drive that I can get my donuts ?
Come back to Voodoo Donuts because convenience is superseded by consistency and connection .
I agree . I mean we're blessed and we have many stores where there's long lines to get in . It'll be 30 minutes , 40 minutes to get in to get a donut . When I first started visiting Voodoo I was with Maude . I was like why am I standing in this line for 30 minutes to get a donut ? I'm in the restaurant business . It better be good .
And then I went in and again , I think it's all encompassing . It's not only the experience of the person on the counter , but is the music right ? Is there something for me to look at ? Do I feel it right ? There's an element that I stole from Howard Beard I worked for at Starbucks , where the walls talk . Right .
What do the walls tell you when you walk in a place and you go to someone's house and it could be an old friend you walk in . You're like , oh , there's something going on here . I don't know what it is , but there's something going on . Or you walk in someone's home or a car and there's something good going on . You're like , oh man , I feel it .
And so we talked a lot about that . Routines is what do the walls tell you when you walk in a store ? And then what would consumers say when they walk ? Do they feel like good things are happening ?
It's just a vibe I think you get and it's hard to do , but when it happens it's just magic . I love that and I think about it too A lot of times if there's places where there's going to be weights . Right , because consumers by the way , just to be very clear , consumers do complain about weight , but a lot less often than you think .
If you look at the data of wait times ,
¶ Customer Recovery and Feedback Challenges
where the biggest frustration is is with pickup or with delivery . And when they say I waited too long for my food , what their meaning is ? I ordered my food . You said it would be to my door in 30 minutes and it didn't get here until 50 minutes .
Or you said my order be ready at one o'clock and I showed up at one o'clock and it wasn't ready until 1.15 . That 15 minutes of unexpected is so much worse than 30 minutes of waiting in line expecting it .
That's interesting and , as you said , that I'm kind of nodding my head because much worse than 30 minutes of waiting in line expecting it .
That's interesting and , as you said , that I'm kind of nodding my head because it's exactly what we find is that exact message , which is you know , we'd all love for people to come in our stores so we can control from start to finish . We all would love that . The reality is , that's not the world we're in . We're just not in that world .
All of us , I think cumulatively in the restaurant business , have to accept that . And how do we do a better job of that ? And then , how do we recover that guest when things aren't great , right ? I mean , I think you guys do a great job of helping companies like ours do that .
How do you recover that customer when they're waiting 30 minutes for their donuts and it takes an hour , and now they're angry and they're not sure to be angry .
Exactly ? Who takes the blame ? The logo on the box of course .
Of course , because I'm a consumer and what happens to me . I feel that same thing and I know how it works . So it's like going to a movie and watching , knowing how the movie the magic of the movie's made and being disappointed like I know all the magic's made . I know what to expect .
But you're absolutely right and you know , I think you know organizations like what you're doing today with Ovation are allowing us to be able to capture those customers that have a bad experience and capture them quickly , right Before they can go off and tell you know , the neighbors at the soccer tournament . Hey .
I just ordered from here and it was not very good . Well , because a human who feels like they have not , that they didn't get what they paid for , especially in the current environment people are OK paying more . They're not OK paying more and not getting what they paid for . That's the danger .
And so if you can capture that guest and make sure that they feel heard , you can either control that narrative with them and that conversation , or they will go feel heard someplace else . And if they want to feel heard on Yelp , it's their prerogative . If they want to feel heard at a soccer tournament , that's their choice .
But if you could get in front of that , you can have a much more productive conversation .
But if you could get in front of that , you could have a much more productive conversation . Absolutely , it's the key . It's the absolute key . And listen , I'd love to be able to capture every customer that has a bad experience and me personally speak to them .
It's not the reality of the world we're living in and again , you guys , innovation help us do just that Is how do we know when everyone's had a bad experience and now we can get ahead of it ? The how do we know when everyone's had a bad experience and now we can get ahead of it ?
The customer that I lay awake at night and think about are the ones that don't say anything , just have a bad experience and walk away and don't come back .
And Chris , do you want to know why they don't say anything ? You , as a customer , why don't you say things every time ? You have a bad experience .
If you ask my wife she'll tell you , because I always have a bad experience , because there's always something I think you're better , right , and she's tired of hearing me complain , but there's not an outlet for it , right , and I think it's just going to fall on deaf ears . I've already spent my time waiting for the product . I've already paid for it .
Now you want it to go above and beyond . It has to be convenient for me to do , otherwise I'm not doing it .
And again , that's where every business decision starts with that first con of convenience . It's a transaction . Me giving Voodoo Donuts feedback is a transaction . You are asking me for something and I don't know what I'm going to get for it . Yeah , exactly . Yeah , no , 100% . I know we're coming up on time here , Chris .
We didn't even get to talk about some tactics , but I know we got to have you back on the podcast .
You's nice , that's very kind .
And you've got too much good experience to share it all in one podcast , so let's have you back on for part two , chris , all right , you got it , but I do have a couple more questions . Who deserves an ovation in the restaurant industry ? Who is someone that we should be following ?
¶ Industry Recognition and Closing Thoughts
Well , listen , I think Shana and Andrew Smith are doing an amazing job with the Savory Group . I mean just an amazing job , right ? Every brand's important and every brand feels uniquely different , and that's hard when you have a stable of brands .
Yeah , right , because you start to feel the same experience in a stable of brands and not to beat down some of our big boys and co-branding their big boys right , I don't want ice cream and chicken at the same stop . Or taco and chicken . I'm sorry , but just do something well and do it really good .
And I think the folks over at Savory and again Andrew and Shauna being the lead of that have done an amazing job with helping bringing brands to life , helping them grow . So they deserve an ovation from my seat . They're just doing an amazing job .
Love it . I grow , so they deserve an ovation from my seat . They're just doing an amazing job . Love it . I was hanging out with Shauna last week . I mean they're such a cool group and I learn from them every time I talk to them . In fact , when I used to have long hair , Andrew actually taught me how to do my hair .
I don't have that problem . But yeah , I don't need to talk to Andrew about that .
But yeah , I know they're doing it . If those that don't know the brands and the saving group is just doing a great job .
Yeah , amen , chris . Where can people go to follow and find Voodoo Donuts and you ? Yeah , so VoodooDonutcom on Instagram . We have about 260,000 followers , believe it or not , for a little donut shop out of Portland . Those are the two places they'll find us . And for me , I don't have a big social following .
I know everyone tells me I'm crazy , but I , very simply , if I tell everybody I'm just Chris at VoodooDonutcom and people can email me anytime , anywhere , I always respond . But yeah , I don't have a big social following . They tell me I have a facial radio . So I'm just kind of you know .
I think it should fall in line with social media as well oh , and for those who aren't familiar with the brand , voodoo Donuts .
They spell donuts , the original way , which is dog like a real dough .
You have to have dough to make a donut . Yes , you don't need the nuts , you need the dough , yeah , so so , just so everyone's aware of how to do that .
But go check them out . And , chris , for teaching us the magic of Voodoo Donuts . Today's ovation goes to you . Thank you for joining us on Give an Ovation . Thanks , zach . Thanks for joining us today . If you liked this episode , leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite place to listen . We're all about feedback here .
Again , this episode was sponsored by Ovation , a two-question , sms-based actionable guest feedback platform built for multi-unit restaurants . If you'd like to learn how we can help you measure and create a better guest experience , visit us at OvationUpcom .