What's that at the Bed's spooky?
Hey, Joky, I'm really sure it's dead.
It's coming this way. Wait a minute, I said, I das pease.
Hey boo, it's me Ros And welcome to Ghosted by Raz Hernandez, the podcast where I talk to people that I like about the paranormal. I have been talking to people lately that I like, but I did not know them before. Uh, because you know, we're trying we're trying out different things in this new year, and uh, I'm talking to someone that made a documentary about a very famous alien abduction, the Pascagoula Abduction, which is a.
Fun word to say.
The time that we had the host of That's Messed Up, Kara Klank and Lisa Trager, when the two of them were on the show a little while back, we talked about this case, but not nearly as in depth as we do on today's episode, because we have on this filmmaker. He's got a new four part series called Pascagoula seventy three, and he really really researched this one, and I think it's a compelling story. I also realized, I don't think we've ever had a UFO alien person quite like this
on the show. But this is definitely a UAU episode, And you know, I'm very curious what you think of this, and with me doing what we're doing, which is sometimes not having silly people. And when I have people on like this, I save the dolls, I save the the EVPs. We don't do that with our expert type guests. But I hope you enjoy this conversation today. Let me just
tell you a story I read in my email. This one comes from Melissa, who writes the subject line, my dead grandmother ruined the surprise of my engagement.
And then in parentheses, happily.
Melissa writes, one night in September twenty fourteen, I had a wonderful visit with my maternal grandmother while I was asleep. When these types of dreams happened, the majority of the time are surround a completely white There might be a cowch or a table, but that's it and we don't have to talk. It's absolutely the most peaceful, joyful, stress free place I could ever imagine. During this visit, she was sitting on a love seat with pretty green decorations
in her hair, her favorite color. She was smiling from ear to ear and gave me the tightest hug of congratulations. Well, the next day, Sunday, I had taken off from work and my boyfriend and I made plans to drive out to mon Talk, which is on the east end of Long Island. Aside from the rich snobs you sometimes run into, it's my favorite place on Earth, built with beach memories
that started in my childhood. While we were making the two hour drive out there, I knew he was going to propose to me on the beach, and yes, that's what happened. I was looking out at the water and the waves, and I turned around and he was on one knee. I happily said yes, but didn't tell him about the dream for quite some time because I didn't
want the moment to be ruined for him. I was so happy, not only for the obvious reason, but because it was such clear confirmation that my grandmother is with me, which I feel often. I hope that everybody out there realizes that they have some type of guardian angel and or spirit guides. My grandmother passed away of breast cancer when I was only seven, but we always had a special connection both before and after her passing. AH now thank you for sending that, Granny. We love the congratulations,
but wait, wait until the night after. Don't jump the gun, Grannie.
Now I think it's adorable. That's so sweet. Thanks for sending that.
Okay, here we go. We're gonna talk about an alien abduction. Here's my conversation with filmmaker Darcy Weir and with the show.
Oh my god.
I am joined by a documentary filmmaker who has a new film called Pascagoula seventy three.
Darcy, We're hey, Ross, Hi from Canada.
From Canada.
You're pretty nice, and that's what they say.
Thanks, not all of us, but I try to be.
Yeah, I haven't. I have not met those people yet, but I assume you know there's assholes everywhere.
Yeah, it's true.
But we're here to talk about UFOs. Let's do it. You're not a ufologist.
I don't consider myself a ufologist. I consider myself an independent filmmaker and you know, documentarian I interviewed upologists.
Ah okay, yeah, is that is that like a like a it's not a degree someone can have a ufologist.
I think there's people within uphology that are trying to push degrees right now, Oh really, Yeah, there's a guy named Danny Shean that has like the new Paradigm Research Institute and he sells courses for like ten thousand of pop.
Oh maybe this is the business I should get into. Maybe what are you going to teach uphology?
You I don't know.
I like ufo ology, ufo oology. I like, oh, yeah that's true ufo. No, I say, borrow the first Oh you ufo wait ufo ufology.
Yeah you got it.
Yeah, that as good because it's one of those things like biopic or biopic.
It's biopic.
People say biopics, people say biosity. It sounds like a medical procedure.
It sounds like an eye thing for sure. But okay, so this film, yeah, would you consider it a film or is it a docu series series?
Four episodes and we just cover a different thing each episode, but.
All based in this one case. Yeah.
Yeah, I mean it's like Jerry Springer doc that just came out two episodes.
Loved it.
I wish it was longer than two.
Episodes me to So this one's four Yeah, that's one hour each, pretty much great amount perfect. Some of these it's like just stop toney, this is a ten minute story.
Yeah, I think this story merits four episodes because there was like a lot to unpack and I never thought I was going to go into it and make four episodes. I thought, okay, I just do this in an hour and a half, make it a feature link doc. But I flew over to England, believe it or not, to speak to this ufologist, Philip Mantel, who's, like you know, been researching cases in Europe and abroad. He's based out of northern England for over decades I think now, and
so essentially I sat down with him. He unpacked everything, and once I started editing and pulling archival data and all that stuff, I was like, okay, I can do this in four episodes.
Yes, well, that's what I love so much because I saw the first episode and it's it's so great to see all of the media, to see just the interviews, the news star is, the audio, the documents, just having it all there, and I imagine that there is a lot over the years. This story we have talked about on this podcast before really and actually it's one of my favorite of the abduction cases. I love it for a very specific reason because, by far the hottest, sexiest
abductee of all time, the younger one. What's his name is Parker how Ben Part that's exactly in nineteen seventy three, who I would have abducted to.
Well, you know what, he's flattered from the grave.
I'd say, he is so hot.
And I because we had a couple of comedians and sometimes I'll do my little research about these cases and we couldn't get we couldn't get it, like, we couldn't get past how hot he album. And you know what's even hotter about him? He kind of disappeared after and didn't really want to like give interviews, is my understanding of that.
Right, he became the Mississippi abductee man of mystery, which makes.
Him even hotter.
There you go.
I'm sorry, but you're already hot. You don't have to have the most interesting story in the room.
He knew that.
He said, I'm just gonna go be hot somewhere else.
There you go. He was afraid of being too hot in public.
And you have the story about getting taken up into it ufo. Please.
Yeah, I mean there was some sexy stuff going on up there.
No, I mean his story.
I didn't know that much about when I was looking into this, like obviously, the first episode is all about Charlie Hickson, who's the elder man that he was with, forty two years old at the time Calvin was nineteen. They were family friends because essentially Charlie's best friend was cal Dad, and Calvin was looking for work. He said, you know, can I get a job at the shipyard in Mississippi on the river past Googlea River. So Calvin
moved in with Charlie Hickson at an apartment there. Shortly there after, like the first week he moved into this place, he gets hired, and I think one of the funny things that Calvin remarked was that he was hired, abducted, and fired within the same day.
What a day. What a day, and became a heart throb.
And became an international heart throb.
I guess, well, he's also, by the way, a nineteen seventy three, nineteen year old, which is like a thirty five year old.
Man, like he's a grown man.
But that's what instantly, when I watched the first episode, I was so grateful for because not that I've delved too deep into this case, but like I didn't know any I didn't know their relationship. I just knew that they both worked together. But that's really it's really fascinating that they were living together.
And there's some weird stuff that I unpacked. I mean, I don't think I included in the documentary. But apparently after they got abducted, they went back to the apartment that they were staying in and Calvin like showered himself in bleach because he was so frightened by the experience and like thought that he was, you know, getting something off of him. That's pretty bad.
Hey, give us so give us the details. So for anyone that doesn't know, So these two guys, they go fishing.
Yeah, at night.
Didn't seem like the cutest place to go fishing, by the way.
Yeah, it was kind of like a garbage dump by the river.
Is that where they planned on eating those fish? Don't know, because that might be your first problem.
I think it was maybe let's have some beers, chat and get lucky catching something on the river, you know, maybe, I don't know. Shortly after they started chatting and you know, getting everything set up and casting their real they apparently saw a blue light in the distance and then suddenly it was behind them and they thought it was the police because this area they were not actually supposed to
be in, they were trespassing. So when they turned around, to their astonishment, it was apparently a craft and these three beings that they couldn't quite see at first, came floating down grabbed them. They apparently felt like a pinch or some kind of like instant pain when they were grabbed, but then that went away, and they were relaxed, and they were taken on board this craft and they had their experience. They were taken away and kind of examined,
so to speak. And this is kind of like a common thread in the abduction tales of ufology totally.
They also said that these beings they weren't your run at the mill gray aliens either. They were something a little different. It's so weird, but I know of a lot of abduction cases, and I especially love it when it's a different type, because it makes sense that there would be more than one species of these, you know, beings, and so when you hear about these, it's way more outrageous, and I think it's probably harder for people to wrap their heads around.
But at the same time, I'm like, makes sense to me.
Yeah, I mean it's a standout case because the creatures or beings that took them on board the craft were not yeah like gray aliens, which are described as like these short, spin lee built, large headed, big black eyed like small, slit mouth, no nosed like automatons that have no real emotion. And other abductees reported that, actually there's an interesting study. Have you ever heard of doctor edgar Mitchell, the sixth man on them Apollo fourteen.
Astronaut, No tell me about him?
So doctor edgar Mitchell was a very intelligent guy. They called them the Brain in Houston where he worked for Capcom for a number of years in the prior Apollo missions and assisting with the Gemini missions and stuff with our exploits in space. Going to the moon and Pollo fourteen was his turn. He actually got to go land
on the Moon and walk around do a moonwalk. He came back for that mission and he had something that astronauts do when they're in space is stick to checklists, like they're so busy and following protocol that they don't really have a ton of time to kind of marvel at where they are until things slow down a bit. And NASA on like ground control. They're constantly keeping them doing a routine so they don't mess up, screw up the mission gets lost in space.
Notice the aliens that are right next to them.
You notice the alien craft following them, which is something people have alluded to. Some astronauts have said it might have happened like a Paulo eleven buzz Aldron reported something like that. Flip flopped on the story over the years. But on the way back from landing on the moon Edgar Mitchell had this epiphany moment. He said that heperience kind of like I guess, like a transcendent experience, and he felt like it was kind of spiritual but also psychic.
He also did what is called remote viewing sort of exercise with some friends that were on Earth and practiced a psychic modality to see if they could guess a picture he was holding on the Apollo spacecraft. Like he had time to do kind of random experiments. He got back from that and he started up the Noetics Institute, which studied these kind of you know, wild out there theories about psychic phenomenon, extrasensory perception, how we're all connected,
and stuff like that. He also started up the Edgar Mitchell Research Foundation, and they published a study called the Free Study. I think it's the Foundation for Research on Extratras and Extraordinary Claims, and that compiled over three thousand contact ye experiences, so people that had abductions or experienced non human intelligence of various kinds. And the gray that we talked about before comes up often in past Goula seventy three, I'm landing the plane here. These things were
not grays. They had gray complexion, but it was more like this elephant wrinkly skin. They had these like metal spike protrusions coming out of their heads, no eyes, no mouth, and they kind of had a like fused leg sort of podium thing that wasn't separate legs, and they were flying.
They sound cool.
Yeah, it sound like robots, and I think Calvin Parker and Charlie Hickson both echoed that that's what they thought they were because they were very like robotic in nature. The two men had very different experiences because one one into a room on the right that would have been Charlie Hickson. He said that he was kind of suspended in the air and he had this like orb come out of the wall and examined his body that was kind of like an eye. And then Calvin went to
the left. He was in a bigger room with a table, like an invisible table that he was laid on, and he discussed many years later when he started becoming more comfortable with talking about the experience being physically poked and prodded. So he had like blood taken from him. He had some other liquid put into him, apparently, and there was a reasonably hot alien woman that was kind of orchestrating this whole thing.
Oh my god. Wait wait, you didn't know about that. The hot, I don't remember that part.
So she.
She was not like a robot lady. She was more like a human.
So those spiky had automaton things were one of them at least was present in the room kind of, he said, was like shut down, and this woman was like hovering over him and kind of like conducting stuff. And apparently she was not very chesty but had a pretty face. And he recalled, you know, if I had a couple of beers in me, I'm out of taken her out on a date. Stop, I'm serious.
That dirty dog.
Wait a minute, but was it freaky deeky? Did they give because you know that's a common one.
Yeah, I know for experiencers there is sometimes sex on the craft. Somewhere in that thousand non human intelligence experiences that Edgar Mitchell's Foundation compiled, I'm sure there's some sexy time.
Yeah, And there's been a few where they're like, she was so hot, It's like, what is she? Are you just trying to make it sound like you exotic?
Yeah, that's what I think is kind of reported that the women were considered exotic.
So neither of them reported anything of that nature.
No, he just thought the female looking one was mildly attractive and he would have had a beer with her.
Okay.
But when you say poked and prodded, like, where are we talking about, because you know that's another part of the story that you hear with these things. Yeah, there's a lot of butt going.
On in a lot of these stories. Not this one though.
So the second episode of the series, we cover Calvin's experience from his perspective and we have a hip session where which is actually the last hypnosis session that was recorded. I think Philip mantled the man in the UK. He had it remotely done by a lady named Chanel, and the third episode is a new person named Maria Blair.
Yeah. I didn't know about this.
Yeah, so I didn't either write like I was learning about this on the fly. But Maria Blair came forward, I think in the past five to six years, because she went to meet up with Calvin at like a memorial spot that they set up on the side of the Pasca Goula River in Mississippi, and she was there with her husband and she wanted to meet him and say, you know, we saw the lights across the river that night on the dock that you guys were in that area.
We think we saw you being abducted because my husband and I or like she apparently said she pulled up the car he was getting on. He was hired by a captain to go on a fishing trip or whatever and you know, work that because I guess commercial fishing
is a thing there and maybe in the seventies. And while they were waiting, they saw the lights and she they had like some kind of missing time experience and then she got put under hypnosis, and so we have that hypnosis session of what she recalled that night, and she said she was taken aboard the craft and they took her reproductive material that took her eggs. Oh my god, yeah, for real, this is what she says.
Wow, what about her husband?
She says that her husband might have been on board the craft, but he like she claims that he kind of set her up in a way, like he knew that they were taking they wanted to take her, and he made a deal with the aliens to take her or something like that.
What for realon she stayed with him, she loved it's love. He made a deal with aliens. You can have my wife if you let me free and you let me have a beer with the one lady.
This is what they say. Wow, No, that's Calvin.
Yeah, but maybe this guy saw that lady and said the same thing.
I have no idea, can't speak for him.
Wait a second, Okay, this story, this story is also This is something that I've said before, and I'm sure in some way whatever it could be considered problematic to say this. But I feel like if you have heterosexual men, like a working class just your average Joe that is saying that they saw a ghost or they were taken up into a UFI or whatever, it's a demographic that doesn't I want to appear super vulnerable or be called crazy or you know, make it seem they don't want that.
So when they come forward, I'm kind of like I believe it a little bit more than anyone else.
Well, I think the interesting story with Maria and Jerry is that apparently, like the real reason she found out that this had all happened, she had like these repressed memories and didn't really recall she saw the lights. She recalled that she didn't recall really getting abducted.
Apparently not until the hypnosis.
Something like that. And then Jerry was in the hospital, possibly dying, and we have that like deathbed confession video in the doc. She shared it with Philip, and he basically was saying, like I knew all along. I was abducted too, for like some time, and you know, I kept it from you, the truth, because I didn't want you to be living a life of panic or feel traumatized from the whole experience, so I just hit it, That's what he says.
Were the two guys Calvin and what's his name Charlie Hickson Charlie and Calvin, were.
They still alive when these people came forward?
Calvin was Charlie had passed.
Was he like, you kind of sets up then it really would have made me not look crazy.
Well, Yeah, they appeared on local Mississippi news channel together and Calvin proclaimed he was very happy she came forward so that he wasn't like the only person remaining alive that was tied to that event.
Yeah, but it's nice and helpful. But I would also be like, it's been a long time that people have just said that nobody else saw this.
Yeah, in a while, take take it and Calvin.
So Charlie ended up going on to always kind of talk about it. Yeah, so he would give speeches and he was like, I don't care, I'm gonna let everyone know he was.
Yeah, he was out there talking, slanging the story. You know, he was at all the conferences, he was in multiple documentaries, TV interviews, news. You know. I think Calvin just had a hard time with it. Like there's a story that I think Charlie was trying constantly to get Calvin to come on the shows and stuff, and early on, I think it was like the second TV interview that they were invited to, the first one that they did. I met the guy who conducted, but I didn't include the
video in the dock. Their backs are to the camera and they didn't really want to show their identities. But I think an actual TV in studio interview they were invited to, and Calvin been overheard the sound guy making fun of him on set and punched him out. Oh so he got kind of like taken off the set. And then after that Calvin just tried to stay out of the spotlight about it because he just wasn't comfortable.
You know. That makes it even more real, because that's the thing. Somebody comes forward and says this thing. I believe we all should kind of be skeptical at first. But I mean they weren't necessarily looking for to sell a movie. They weren't like they were just.
They sold books they got Okay.
Charlie had actually Charlie had a book in like the eighties, and Calvin Parker's book was published by Philip Mantle, the guy that I interviewed. Oh right, yeah, but it was much later in life for Calvin, Like Calvin only came forward really in a big way in the two thousands. Okay, yeah, but.
I mean he came forward initially and then went away and then came back in the two thousands.
Yep. So he tried to hide, like every time he started a new job, he was being harassed by the media that found out he was in that area. And like the reason why he got fired from the shipyard the very first time was because the media showed up the next day after the encounter, because somebody at the police station leaked that it had happened to the press, and there were just so many people trying to find
out about it. And the foreman just said, you know, I'll put you on like some temporary leave, Charlie, because you've been here for a while. But Calvin, sorry, you gotta.
Go mm because he was the new guy, the new guy, and you.
Know, just not worth the foreman's time to keep him around if there's always going to be press kind of interrupting their day lea business at the shipyards.
So that's what's so weird when sometimes in my research I'll look back at past generations of newspapers and they'll be like Calvin, who lives at blah blah blah address, Like they'll like include that.
Stuff real stories.
That's kind of doxing today, right, yeah, doc, people get super doxing.
Yeah, not docking. That's something else.
I hear about it on Twitter in the community probably about ten times a week, just because everybody's so paranoid that their identities will be fully like, their locations will be revealed. There's a lot of paranoia there.
There's a lot of that.
That's why I kind of put one pinky toe in the UFO world because this just a little just a little funky over there.
Yeah it does.
Yeah, I was thinking when you were talking about like if that was a real like assuming that this is all real. I feel so bad for those two men that not only did they have the initial experience, but then it's like you can't go anywhere without people thinking you are insane. There's probably so few people that they could turn to that had ever experienced something similar. Who knows if those people would be telling the truth. It's just like it's nice that they had each other stigma.
There's definitely stigma surrounding experiencers even today. You know people that have just seen an authentic UOFO. Something about that case, which is interesting. Share Fred Diamond, who's the guy that ran the station that initially interviewed them the night that they were abducted. Yes, he proclaimed that he to the newspaper that he saw the UFOs in question, like during that week and the same night that those men were supposedly taken, their phone at the police station was ringing
off the hook. They had like over fifty calls on different residents of the area reporting UFOs in the sky. Okay so, and then in the docu series we cover multiple witnesses that you know, Philip had to go after these people. Some people back in the day showed up on like Walter Cronkite, other police officers and Larry Booth and other residents that actually saw an object that night.
They spoke to the press back in the day, but other people had to be tracked down years later and Philip Mantle went after them and they finally said yes, like I saw the object you know, fly over my car that night and stuff like that. So elements like that make the case more authentic to me. And there was definitely a UFO flap going on, like a UFO that was intercepted by the coast Guard on the river.
We have documents from that event, the coast Guard papers where they reported chasing this blue object that was in the water and they were poking it with like a stick and stuff like that.
What.
Yeah, at what point before after this would have been the same.
I think it was I want to say the month after. Wow, So there was there was activity happening all around that area that fit the same sort of description of what those guys were seeing and other people the same night.
Wow.
Yeah.
I think that the most compelling piece of evidence is the recording. Oh, the secret recording, the secret recording these two guys. It's kind of like what we call a hot Mike moment these days. It was when they first went to the police station, right, yeah, and the recorder was still running, but the two guys did not know that, and they are just authentically talking.
Yeah.
So Sheriffred Diamond and Glenn, the other police officer that was attending these guys, they were interviewing them, they planted a recorder in the room before the guys could know and started it and they asked like, you know, have you been on drugs tonight? Have you had anything to drink?
No?
No, no, sir, you know, nothing like that. And then they're like, okay, do you want like a drink coffee or something? No, no, no, And like they're pretty panicked in their voices those officers leave the room and then it's just the tw men pretty much rambling back and forth to each other in a panic state, you know.
And if you had made this up, or if you watch like JSC psychology YouTube videos of like killers that are being interviewed and stuff like that, they're usually just silent when a police officer leaves the room, and these guys were traumatized continuing to discuss their experience.
And you know, being you would think they would be like, should we lie, should we tell them about this thing, or should we make up? You know, I don't know, you would think there would be a little bit more yeah, something, especially because in the seventies it's not like it is today, where there's always something recording something everywhere. And like if I was in a police questioning room right now and they're like, we're not recording, I'd be like, yeah, someone's recording something in here.
There's a camera in the corner of the room.
There's got to be one somewhere something.
Yeah.
So I don't know that to be very authentic.
I think it's an interesting part of the story for sure.
Would you say that you believe that, I mean, I believe.
People that recall being taken beyond their will should be taken seriously.
I think that.
This case has elements of truth to it. Other experiencers like Betty and Barney Hill, Terry Lovelace is a military man that said this happened to him on an army a military base. There's elements of that in a recent you know, experiencer named Mario Woods, also a military man that recalled this, and you know, there's probably tons of
data there. But yeah, Travis Walton is a really interesting case because years later the same area where the wooded area outside of Snowflake, Arizona, in the you know, mountain side where these men were logging, like cutting trees down and stuff, and four of them saw this object. There's still weird radiation that lingered in the area, made the trees grow in a regular way, like in in in a regular way. So I think there's something to abduction.
And if you know, there's three thousand cases, for example, of these non human intelligence cases that were compiled by the Edgar Mitchell Institute, if just.
One of those is real, that's crazy.
We're not alone and we're not you know, the highest thing on the food chain in this existence.
My one thing with like all of this stuff is are you a ghost person at all? Uh?
Not really, I'm not really. I feel like ghosts are kind of like a religious thing. I'm more like a nuts and bolts person. But yeah, I mean, I mean even in the study that I was talking about, the Free Foundation for Research of Extraterrestrial and Extraordinary Claims that covers near death experience encounters as well, which goes into you know, is there something after we pass away? And that goes into ghosts? So right, right right, I'm open to it.
When I research stories to talk about on this podcast, it's so often stories up until the two thousands, like stories of people that lived in this crazy haunted house where stuff happening on stuff, or alien abductees, Like I feel like you don't hear about them as much. And I wonder is it because people can fake things so easily now so none none of us would believe you anyway? Is it?
Like? I just don't know, Do you have any idea? Do you have any thoughts on that I think.
There are ghost cases? And like to me just to further explain that, unpack that what I think a ghost could be. It's just something we don't. I mean, a ghost is an old way of describing, old world way of describing, with religious connotations attached to it. Something that we can't perceive with our eyes and our brains regularly. It's something that's like here that exists that we're trying
to explain with like old world terminology. So I think if somebody sees something after they pass away, or something is here existing in a like non physical way, but somehow comes into our view or I don't know, bumps into us, or is it heard over a recording, you know, like these what do you AVPs and stuff like that, I feel like that's just like a bleed through moment from another plane of existence that we don't regularly get
to interact with. And I feel like science could maybe one day catch up to whatever that is and we can properly identify it with some kind of you know,
better terminology. But I think there are videos I've seen some pretty interesting videos like that came from the two thousands, for example, of a famous all boys school in the UK, where the security cameras like literally show at night papers being thrown in the hallway and locker doors being slammed and like chair being thrown across the hallway and stuff, and it's like, what is that?
You know?
That is that seems credible to me unless somebody at the school made the best invisible hoax video you could, right, No one's debunked that, right, So for me, that's some kind of entity that we can't see with our human perception, but the camera has picked up a moment that you know it existed in our realm.
Because that's the thing with these abductees too. It's like, so you mean to tell me that two of the best improv actors ever were living in Pasca Goola and they were able to just commit to the bit and they decided to do that for however many decades, like come on, yeah, I mean.
It's it seems to me like that's not really how it went down. I feel like something happened that night. And I mean, UFOs are real. We've got videos, pictures of all qualities and cases throughout the decades, and just thousands of people this time around the world who've experienced them,
not just crazy Americans. And to think that somebody has been on board one and you know they've experienced the occupants who are maybe not human the other interesting thing you could relate to the Pasca Goula case is have you ever heard of like Michael p Masters No, W's that PhD professor at I want to say, Montana Tech, which is kind of like Montana's version of I don't know, like a really it's a good university, good technical uni.
And he's an professor of anthropology there who's posed the idea. He actually wrote a paper recently with a Harvard professor that's called the x ray Tempestree model and Crypto dustrial theory. The idea with this is that people that are experiencing these UFOs and the occupants sometimes are possibly encountering a time machine, and the occupants might be related to us, but from the future. I like that.
I think that's a fun way to look at it.
Yeah, I mean he gets into the weeds about like the Grays for example, and kind of says, well, you know, there's signs that we are evolving towards like that. If you know, the singularity happens and technology melds with our biology and we become you know, more obsessed with brain power and less obsessed with sex and the other carnal
pleasures of being a man. Or a woman. You know, those things don't really Some people say that they don't have like sexual organs, they don't have toilets on board, they don't have like a kitchen.
Oh.
Interesting, So they're more like this forced evolution synthesized being that maybe we created to carry out scientific experiments in the past on board a time machine, which is like the UFO. That's where he kind of goes with it, or he kind of says, maybe we go as far as evolving ourselves that way, and the chin, you know, is getting really small and the head's getting bigger to house a more like efficient brain, and blah blah blah. I mean, I'm totally butchering this theory right now. I'm
dumbing it down. But he's looked at the Pasca Goula case, and he also looks at other reported contact tee cases where people say they actually did see human like beings or human beings that were on board the craft. And so Calvin talks about this woman. Right, there's other people that have talked about seeing a woman and a man.
Travis Walton, for example, saw some like sexy blue jumpsuit woman and man on board his craft after he saw the more gray looking beings at the starting of his encounter, and he apparently got gassed and then lost sight of them.
But Michael P. Master's theory on that is that maybe that is us from the future coming back in a time machine, and other encounters are further down the evolutionary path, you know, maybe thousands of years, where they're coming back and observing us on the timeline, taking a specimen, you know, taking a bit of material, messing around with us, examining further, and then putting us back. And it's something humans do already, we do with animals.
We do it right, right, so it doesn't it's usually not like ten out of ten sexy knockouts.
Yeah, so that's like part of the job.
You have to be a smoke show and a scientist and willing to possibly get freaky deekey with these people.
Yeah, that would be I mean, I don't know if that's a mission requirement. But what if we get to a point where, you know, the ones that have the best technology in the future are the ones that are also the most attractive and the smartest.
Fascinating.
Who knows.
You've given me a lot to think about here today. Good, so we know that UFOs are real. We don't fully know what these things are.
Mm hm.
I mean, do you do you think about who knows the truth? Do you think there's people that know the truth? I think.
If you follow you know the history of this phenomenon in euphology and all of the documents that have come out from like supposed military communications, like the Air Force, the Navy, CIA, So we're talking about defense and intelligence agencies that are surrounding this subject over the decades. It points to them knowing more about the subject, but then telling the public they don't know anything and there's nothing to see here. So that would be what initially was
called the cover up. Some people call it a truth embargo, and I think post twenty seventeen, since like Louise Elizondo, former Pentagon worker that worked for the DoD on a parent Advanced Aerial Threat Identification program looking at UFO videos that were coming in from different sources and TIC tech video, Yeah, that type of stuff which he got declassified. With Christopher mellon the Go Fast and the Gimbal UFO videos all
FLEAR captured by F eighteen fighter pilots. We're scrambled to intercept these things usually over the ocean that's apparently just the tip of the iceberg, you know, and the Pentagon sits on a treasure trove of this data. Now skeptics and debunkers say, oh, that's all just like BS or whatever.
But if it's true, and this subject has been so tightly held by the intelligence and defense community for so long, we're kind of living in this moment in time post twenty seventeen when that New York Times paper got released by Ralph Blumenthal and Leslie Keene, you know, talking about those videos and Louise Ela Zondo and Christopher Mellen breaking this information, you know, whistleblowing kind of we're kind of in this like post disclosure era where more and more
people are coming forward to talk about the truth of this and the cover up, the suppression and secrecy. I don't think, in my opinion, the intelligence or defense community would ever really want this to fully come forward, because if it's true that people have been hurt, killed, or seriously threatened to suppress this information over the years, why would they ever want that to fully come out, right, because then they have to admit to you know.
Who's the one famous guy that like allegedly worked at Area fifty one.
Bob Blazar.
Bob Blazar, isn't he one of those ones that like has had a lot of drama with that.
Yeah, so he's he came out in the eighties through George Knapp, famous Nevada based Las Los Angeles reporter journalist for KLAS and now eight News. Now he's been on TMZ documentaries and stuff with Jeremy Corbel and stuff. So Bob Lazaar's story is that he worked at Area fifty one and he was hired to work on this like reverse engineering program for supposed alien craft that he called the sports Model that the American military had captured at one point in time in the past. And you know
Louise el Zondo. David Grush is like another one of these whistleblowers that's come forward and testified before Congress in the past couple of years. There's only been three UAP congressional hearings to date so far. I've been physically in one of them. Really, yeah, it was pretty cool as a Canadian. But David Grush came forward. He was working
on a program called the UAP Task Force. I've heard of that, and he was, you know, a dog hot on a trail sniffing out the secrecy of all this stuff and being pointed in the right direction by people that knew about these reverse engineering special access programs within
the DoD and intelligence community. And he was an intelligence officer, so he had like the security clearances to supposedly get read into this type of stuff, but they wouldn't let him get direct access because the age old saying with regards to the secrecy of these actual programs is that
it's need to know only right right. And then he became a whistleblower because he he got exposed to documentation and apparently saw videos and all that kind of proof that maybe Louise Elizondo was also being first hand, you know, experiencing when he worked for the Pentagon on a special access program but he couldn't get really fully ready in, but he interviewed people that were part of those programs that you know, we're saying this is bad, should be
more out there to the public, and we should be changing the way that this is working.
God, I will never be hired by the government because I would spill to everyone. Yeah, I would be like, girl, you're not gonna believe what kind of aliens they got. So you'll even hear these stories that they they have aliens like you know, whether alive or dead, that they.
Some craft that they captured because apparently this has been like decades long programs they call them like legacy programs if it's like Roswell nineteen forty seven style, and then like there's new unacknowledged special access programs that are still going on today. And actually was a I don't know if you watched News Nation, which is like a CBE I think it's a CBS news network, But they released a story with journalist Ross coltheart recently, just last week,
and a new whistleblower came forward named Jake Barber. Ross's Australian.
It calls him Jake Baba Love the Baba Baba.
And Jake said that he was part of one of these programs retrieving crashed craft or UAPs.
So is there's not like a lifetime NDA like don't yeah.
I think I think that's the point is that people that have experienced this or you know, been a part of this, are tired of that secrecy that they know that the greater implication is that we're not alone. That you know, the things should be explored more in the public and should be better known by the public, you know, people should be better informed, and it would also kind
of change public consciousness. And probably if we knew more about these technologies, it would be an exciting and you know, scientific exploration progress in our time.
I think it'd be fun to meet our neighbors, Like, I've had enough of humans, let's make some friends. I would love an alien pen pale. But I think we ultimately when anytime people panic or it's the conversations of like, yeah, if they revealed all this stuff.
Everyone would freak out.
The one good thing about it is like, it can't be that much of a threat because like it seems like it's been contained for a long time.
If it is, yeah, I think we don't know all the nuance to that. Yeah, you know, we're not necessarily very good to every animal on the planet, and all animals are kind of there's evidence that you know, animals can prey on each other, you know, so all the way up the food chains. So we don't know for a fact that there isn't something out there that's non human, that's higher intelligence or equivalent that may want to prey on us, and there could be elements of that truth.
There could also be benevolent intelligence out there that want to help us or want us to change, to become like a better citizen of the universe. You never know.
That's what I always I'm one hundred percent convinced. I'm sure again, there's probably some assholes that have these UFOs, but I think that they are ultimately good and they want to help us. I think there's so much smarterer than us. They could absolutely take us out if they needed to, but they haven't, and I think that they are sick of looking at our ugly ass planet and they want to help.
Yeah, we got a beautiful planet though, That's the thing, and that might be why they're attracted to our planet because it's this blue. I mean, if you look at space footage and tails from astronauts that have been outside the atmosphere, we're just like people that have been on a Jeff Bezos flight, you know, with blue origin. They're in awe because Earth is such a beautiful marvel to behold,
and yeah, there's opportunity for maybe exploiting that. There's also opportunity to protect that beauty and stuff, right, So I think there's there possibly could be all kinds of reasons or motives for this phenomenon and possible interactions with non human intelligence if they're truly here, and I think one of those cases is real. They're here.
Do you think that they're in the water.
Yeah, that's a thing that's come up a lot before this Last year, I released a doc called trans Medium, and it's about I interviewed former Navy Admiral Tim Galladett, who also testified at one of the recent congressional hearings. I was actually at that one November thirteenth, twenty twenty four.
And there's there's like, for example, those three UAP videos that were declassified and released of the public that was all ocean based phenomenon, And it seems like our navy and fighter pilots are engaging with this phenomenon and seeing evidence that it's emanating from the oceans or going into the oceans.
And.
What better place. I mean, you're kind of our limitations with the oceans is that we don't have the technology to circumvent friction and the ocean depth pressures and so on and so forth. So if you do have that technology that can allow you to navigate that other medium. Right, the ocean liquid water which is noncompressible, and you know, submarines I think can only travel at about like forty
knots tops because of drag and all that. If you have technology and you can circumvent that, then you're basically saying cyinara to a fighter jet that's chasing you, because what are they going to do? Yeah, they're stuck in the atmosphere.
So fine, Yeah, it would be so cool if they were down there and like like all the sharks and everyone already knows that they're down there, like that they can go down there, Like I don't. I just think it's I think that's fun to be because the ocean is just hasn't been explored.
And yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I mean both both up or you know, up in the sky or space or weight ocean.
Wait, no, no, it's a mystery, and I think, frankly, I'm of the camp where I think it's all fun as a mystery. But of course I'm nosy and I want all the answers, but I feel like I don't know if I had all the answers, then what are we going to talk about?
There's always something new to explore right the world's changing and the way that we think of it. And I think this is one of those subjects that I actually started into it back in two thousand and nine, Like the very first documentary I ever made was released on YouTube in twenty twelve, and my views have changed quite a bit since then. I know that there's a lot
of riff raft. There is a lot of like bs and culty type behavior and stuff that happens in eupology, but there's real stuff too, and I'm you know, sort of aligning myself with that more so and trying to, you know, correct whatever record I can. But this is like, you know, a place that when I first started researching it, I thought I was completely alone, a total like loser, you know, psycho outcast. And now you've got rear admirals testifying in front of Congress saying this is real, former
intelligence and military officials. You've got congressmen and congress women reaching across the aisle. It's a bipartisan issue, one of the only ones that's crazy saying there's something here. There really is some kind of secrecy happening, and we need to unveil a bit more to the public. We should know more about where all our military budgets are going towards this subject and stuff like that. So it's it's wild.
It's really kind of breaking open and becoming a mainstream topic now, and I never thought it would go that way.
Talking to people NonStop, I would be so curious to see a survey of before and after the past few years on people's beliefs and if this stuff is real, because I encounter constantly people being like, well, that's real now, like we know that that's a thing. Yeah, Like it has given it the credibility that it never had.
It's fascinating, yeah, And I mean there's exact evidence that proves that this was relegated to superstition, myth and considered a ridiculous joke before, Like the Air Force made that happen with Project Blue Book. They had a head scientist Jay Allen Heinek working on behalf of their organization, intercepting any credible cases and explaining to the public that it
was swamp gas or prosaic explanations. When whole towns or communities were seeing objects land, you know, fly around in the sky over their farms and stuff like that, people some people reported being abducted back then. The Betty and Barney Hill case was, you know, part of the Project Blue Book Days and the Air Force got involved.
That that's an iconic one. Yeah, the Betty and Barney Hill one. But we should probably wrap it up. I just realized how long we've been talking. This is so fun. I love hearing all this.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Ross. Tell everyone where they can find your work.
Yeah, they can check out my website, journeys is ocult journeys dot com is my studio site. They can see like all my past film catalog plus this one. And they can search my name on Amazon Prime too, BTV, Roku. I'm on Apple TV, like a bunch of different streaming sites.
And Pascagoula seventy three is on all of those as well.
Pasca Goula is just on Amazon right now, okay, but it's opening up to other platforms as we speak. Eventually it'll be on TV and stuff like that. Yeah, and they can find my socials like Instagram, Darcyweir Films or at Ocult Journeys on Twitter. I'm on Facebook too, just darcywear amazing.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, thanks, thank you so much to Darcy go check out Pasca Googla seventy three. If you haven't yet, google image this young man Kelvin. Just type in Kelvinpasca Goula. You're welcome anyway. Yeah, let me know what you think of these kinds of episodes. If you want more, if you want less, you know, no harm either way. Just trying to just trying to make everyone happy over here, trying to have a good time while talking about the paranormal.
I love you all, both living and dead. But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me. Came by.
This has been an exactly right production. Want to share your paranormal experience on the podcast. I read stories out loud and sometimes I'll even call you, so email me at ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com. You can send a DM or voice message to the show's Instagram at ghosted by Roz. Give us a follow while you're there, and follow me Roz on Instagram at Roz Hernandez and on TikTok and Twitter at It's Roz Hernandez. My senior producer is the startling Jiha Lee. Associate producer is the
alarming Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed and sound designed by the eerie Edson Choi. My guest booker is the petrifying Patrick Kottner. Additional production support from the hair raising Hannah Kyle Crichton. My theme music is by the spine chilling Brendan Lynch Salomon. Artwork by the Spooky Vanessa Lilac, Photography by the terrifying Elizabeth Karen. Executive produced by the chilling Karen Kilgareff, the Spooky Georgia hard Stark, and the frightening Danielle Kramer.