River Butcher

What's that.

Bed? It's booky, joky, I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming, it's a way. Wait a minute, I'm ghosted.

I usays, Hey boo, it's me Roz.

I'm joined today by River Butcher, a hilarious comedian that I have been a fan of for years, and we're going to get into it in just a moment. I'll make it just just just a brief little intro today. There's a video version of this episode that you can find in the link in the show notes and on social media and on YouTube and all that stuff, So

Hello, oh my god, Hello, how are you. I'm good, Ross, how are you doing today?

So good? We were just talking about Teal Swan and our fascination of cult leaders and psychics, and.

Yeah, we were really going down our own rabbit hole of our own experiences going down rabbit holes over but.

You've never been to a psycond which I want to write about. Psychics and cults are different.

Different things, are different things overlap, but two different things. But like tears and rectangles.

Because you were somebody that had told me about what's it called the Deep End?

Yeah, yeah, I made a joke about it on a show that we were on together.

But which in my mind you were speaking to me first.

Yeah, yeah, I just want to remind people I am working.

Yes, we were doing we were both booked, we were we were on the and everything. Yeah, and you talked about Teal Swan did, and I was like, I gotta figure out who this is. And she's a little psychic.

Yeah, she claims to be.

She claims to be, but she's also a cult.

Leader hardcore And she says she's not a cult leader because she was formerly in occult So how could she possibly be a cult leader? Which is the most flawed logic I've ever heard in my life.

Right, Yeah, yeah, I'm not sure that's sure about.

That, saying I'm queer. How could I possibly be a bad person? You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't those two things are not You can't that doesn't work like that.

Yeah, well I'm queer and I'm a bad person too. You've never been to a psychic No, I haven't.

Why that's a great question. I do think I had a lot of like fear of them from childhood or whatever because I went to Catholic schools. Me too, not Catholic. But are you Catholic? I mean technically, I.

Mean I was raised Catholic.

Yeah, like your family's Catholic. Yeah yeah, Like here's my family is not Catholic.

Okay, but they did you have to do like sacraments or stuff like that going to the school.

No, because the school that I the first school that I went to that was a Catholic school was I used to know the word for this, but they didn't have it was non parochial. It was just a standalone. It was like a Nuns school. It had a convent of Dominican nuns.

I'm obsessed with nuns.

I mean, yeah, me too. My first crush was in Madeline. You know that. I've used to know her name, but I don't remember now, right, a woman in uniform, you.

Know Adeline, Sister Act None, Yeah, you know.

Sister Act too. Back in the habit. I think they pitched that one first and then they worked backwards.

It's a perfect name. It's a perfect name, and it has Lauren Hell.

That's right.

So okay, so you never went, second, never went. But so you weren't Catholic. But you think the Catholic school, they they scared the demons. Audio.

I don't know if this was your experience in Catholic school, but it's like I was given the long list of bad things and not given the very short list of here's how to be a kind person, you know what I mean, Like as an adult now you look but I look back and I see things like love thy neighbor as thyself, Like this is this is not the It was like, don't do that, don't do that, and don't do that, don't be this, don't do that, don't

But when we talk about the paranormal. Yes, well, I always talk about the Catholic religion, in my opinion, is the most paranormal of any of them. Spooky uky totally. Like someone was just talking about which is spread to start with, Yeah, I mean these people or somebody was recently telling me about which is being paranormal, and I was like, sure, maybe, but to me, like Catholic, a Catholic priest and getting the demons and the turn of the blood into water to wine or or vice versa.

Transsubstantiation and all that stuff. You know, what's interesting is have you ever read Transgender Warriors by Leslie Feinberg. No, I haven't think it came about ninety six or something.

You know, it's very witchy, it's very witchy. It's a lot of spell work going on during a mass incenseations.

Yes, yeah, I love that sensory.

I love it as like a performance.

Oh yeah, as a performance art piece, if you can set aside all the rest of it, yeah for sure.

Right yeah, right, So where how do you feel about ghosts and all this stuff?

It's a really funny question.

It's a question to me, very normal actually every.

Day I feel about ghosts. No, it's just like a funny question to consider, like how do I feel about ghosts? Yeah?

How you feel?

I mean, I think there was a time where I used to be really creeped out by it, and I don't know what that aligns with in my own life, but thinking about it and coming on this show, it's like, I totally believe in ghosts one hundred percent, you know, like in varying ways. But when I was a kid, I used to feel like I was talking to my dead relatives that I had never met you know, what do you mean? I mean like at night, I would like talk to my great grandmother that I never knew.

Like where did this come from? Was this just on your own? Yeah?

I mean my mom. I mean, I lived in an intergenerational house, so it, I guess made sense to me. There were paintings of these great grandmothers and they were very like integral to her story that she shared, you know that she was like telling me when I was a kid, and so I think that I felt their presence through that, and then just it made sense to be like, yeah, I'll just talk. I mean, I very much had an active like imaginary friend group, you know.

Oh, you totally were. I mean, if you're talking to that, they might not be talking about they might not be.

Talking back, yeah that's the thing.

But still or they might be communicating another way.

Oh yeah, through other things, through other things.

Yeah. Well okay, So do you know people that have had stories and you believe, like, you know, if they telt me it's real, then it must be real.

And yeah, like like do I have friends who have ghost stories?

Yeah? Yeah, oh yeah.

I mean I wish I could think of them, any of them specifically right now. But I totally I don't dismiss anybody's experience. It's your experience, and if you like interpret or feel that way about it, then who am I to say that it's not right real?

What about you?

I mean again, same thing. I don't know that I've I've definitely had experiences where I've felt like I've seen one where I'm just like, what the hell was that? You know?

What was that?

Like just floating things in the sky that are very fast, you know, not on any substances or like that, just very you know, like totally unexplained and unexplainable where here out here in Ohio, like all over the place they're trying to communicate with the Yeah, I think so, But I don't, you know, I can't. I can't imagine that we on this tiny little rock are the only you know, divine beings or the only beings with what we have, you know, like the rains that we have and all

Well, the power just went out. It was creepy. Yeah, it has happened before.

It's ghosts, absolutely, either ghosts or aliens, one or the other. And who could say that they're not the same thing.

That's true. It's possible they could. They could be us from the future.

That's what I'm saying this documentary that I was talking about before the aliens pulled the plug, right, is that you know that that is sort of the I just never thought of aliens in that context before, like, oh, they're us, just very far into the future. They's just interesting.

It makes sense.

Well, that makes a lot of sense given that we live with animals that were us in the past, you know what I mean, like that we came from so it makes sense that there would be other beings that are us in the future.

It makes a lot of sense. Yeah, Now if they were to take you up there, would you go or would you want to go? Uh? I mean I'm not.

Big into heights, and I'm definitely scared of space because I'm only recently back into swimming, and I feel like space is just you know, water, even more terrifying, right because there's no error, you know, So I just have like those would be my fears, not I don't think they're gonna probe me or anything, like they already understood, they already know what's going on back there.

I never think about aliens floating floating like wherever they are, there's no gravity up in wherever planet they live on, wherever they go to. I never think about that, and yeah.

Like what kind of there I would be scared? Would I try to do it? Probably? I don't think that they would be. I tend to, uh, I don't know.

Totally. I think they come in peace.

Yeah, absolutely.

My thought constantly lately is I know what's happening on this planet, and I don't love it, so I'll take my chance.

To go wherever. Yeah, why not would you go to Mars?

Like with Elon Musk or something in that. Now, I'm not going on a plane or a spaceship or anything with Elon Musk.

Yeah, no, with anything that even remotely has to do with Elon Musk or some sort of person trying to be like Elon Musk. Like, no, thank you, No, I'm like all the rich people should just go to Mars.

Can I tell you about something called the bell Mez faces?

Oh? Yes, please?

Have you ever heard of it?

No? I haven't. I mean faces I've heard of, yes, but not the bill mes.

These are a very specific kind of face. It's a face that was found in and Luthia, Okay, and it's in a city called Bellemes de la Mora, La la Mora Lea. I'll tell you more about it, Lera. It was in nineteen seventy one, Okay. There was a woman named Maria Gomez Perera and she notices a weird stain on her kitchen floor one day. Now, the stain, it starts to form into a face over time, like over I think maybe a couple of days. I'm not really

Yeah, I mean it sounds like it. Yeah, if you a can be terrified by a stain and be all those people show up, not a lot going on in your town. I'm just glad they didn't let the cops mess with the faces because they probably would have killed those faces.

Yeah they didn't. These These were Spanish cops that are just like trying to make sure that people aren't getting in there. I think they didn't want them to destroy the faces.

Yeah.

Yeah, they were like these faces and make some money on these faces exactly tourism of course, you know. And so they start having professionals, parapsychologists and stuff start coming in. They stuff flying in far and wide, and they're doing all kinds of tests on the floor and it's leading some of them. Some of them are led to believe that it is a hoax, that this family has somehow figured out a way to make these faces so that they can charge a fee and get people. But I

So are their photographs?

Oh you better believe I got some for you right here here.

I mean that that's but that's the thing Ros And this kind of goes back to whom we mentioned at the top, te Swan teal Swan, is that like the confidence of I mean con is short for confidence, you know, Like is that true? Yeah, if you're a con man, you know to use the gender term. But if you're a con person con man, you're a confidence man.

I never knew that.

Yeah, And so you are playing, all you have to do is be confident in what it is that you're doing. Well, people will believe it.

Yeah, if you're the type of person that is half.

Of stand up comedy, ninety five percent of it.

It's a bunch of cons Yeah, it really is.

Yeah. Sometimes in a positive way. It's like, oh, I just need to be confident of what I'm saying, and it.

Works sure, because I mean maybe confidence is concealing, not confident, lack of confidence. Confidence. So okay, this here is I believe the first face right here, and then it they noticed that the face is a more face. No, no, this is the same face. The faces.

Oh this is pre pickax. Both of these I.

Think this is post pickax, post pickax. Something I didn't mention was that the faces they're noticing are changing expressions, not like right in front of their face, but they'll come back and now the face is like.

So we're talking, this is like a stone floor. Yes, okay, so do you believe this?

Well, we'll get to some of the reasons why it's sketchy, but let me show you literally here's another one. I mean, this stuff kind of reminds me of do you remember when also in Spain, there was that older woman that no, not toes, but I love anytime Jesus is on toes. There was that woman that took that Gesus is painting that like old Fresco, and she like read that's maybe the funniest news story.

Yeah, it's pretty incredible, you know.

It's like, ironically also Spanish that I think is maybe the second funniest news story of all time. The second funniest new story is Hilaria Baldwin. Like both of those, ye are like the funniest.

It's Hilario.

Now look at this like they start having full families. The floor, that's the floor, damn.

I mean, I can say so it does seem to me, just like looking at these in context with each other, it does seem like Saturday afternoon family fun time, you know, arts and craps, exactly, like let's get out the charcoals.

It really does seem like that vine charcoal. Yeah, exactly. They they were having a good Maybe they went down to Joeanne Fabrics. They bought some Michaels. But okay, So there was a professor who came from Madrid and he's doing some research and he finds that there was a seventeenth century governor of Madrid who was born in this town bel Mez, and I actually think it's bell Mes And this old seventeenth century governor murdered five members of his family in and around this house. So could it

Yeah.

It was also allegedly discovered that the house was built over an old cemetery and the floor was dug up and they found several human skeletons and some of them were as old as the thirteenth century. Whoa. And reportedly some of them didn't have heads. Whoa. So maybe their heads were showing up on the kitchen floor.

Yikes.

So you know, they dug all that up, they replaced the floor, they bury the bodies in a nearby Catholic cemetery, and in April of nineteen seventy two, once again the Flora's serving face. So they do all these investigations, like these people are really in there trying to figure this thing out, and if the family's conning, they're like, this is great. Like they're in the other room just counting their points, which I don't know if they were charging

Yeah, okay, okay, that sounds like a scream? Yeah, So who recorded that one of these investigators depends an actual like investigator. But I would also say, and again at the beginning of this, I said, I believe these things.

That's one way to look at it. But I think also paranormal investigators, I think, in my opinion, what they're supposed to do is find all the logical explanations for why this isn't paranormal, and when you can't find it.

Then there you go.

Then there is that. Yeah, so it's one way to look at it, but I don't know that right there.

That's pretty creepy.

It's pretty creepy. But okay, So another experiment that they do, the professor puts foil on the floor. He's trying to avoid any funny business from this family and their little arts and crafts night because at this point people are really suspecting that it's the family. And he actually paid to have a new kitchen made for them so that he could study this kitchen. And I guess, so this is what I'm reading online. Never take facts from me, but this is what I read. Someone else wrote this

Oh of course, yeah.

So you know there are there were theories in the paranormal sense that maybe what she was doing is called thoughtography, which is when you think of something and then it gets burned into a surface.

You know that thing that that people do, that thought over there.

Yeah, you know, you have a thought and then all of a sudden it just burns into the wall.

Yeah. Sometimes I think it jokes and then it just burns into my wall, burns there goes my deposit exactly. So it needs a set list when you can just burn it into.

The Yeah, I don't know, I think also knowing that she's a psychic kind of she says she's a psychic. Now I don't know her abilities. Of course, I don't know what she was doing with that, but it leads you to believe that she's somebody that believes in this stuff, so that could make you skeptical.

Totally, I mean, And then for me, the other possibility is finding out that there was you know, Okay, so let's say I totally believe this, she's a conduit for this information, and for these people conduit confident do it? You know what I mean. I mean, to me, the point of it is for people to realize that these people had been probably murdered, you know, like executed if they don't have heads.

But then they dig up the bike, I know, and then they.

Put them in a Catholic As soon as you're like, then they put them in a Catholic cemetery, I'm like, that's even worse because it was probably Catholics that beheaded them in the beginning to begin with. Oh, you know what I mean, just thinking globally about history, it would have been Catholics in Spain doing that in the thirteenth century. So I'm just like, yeah, this makes sense to me that it's probably real in some way because you found

I was thinking recently, like, Okay, I know that, like common belief, the kind thing to do is to like honor somebody's grave. You don't like step on someone's grave or build a house on someone's grave. But I also, I don't know, I personally feel like there's a spirit and there's a body, and they're different and to me, like my bones like I don't care. Oh yeah, I'll be under your kitchen me too.

I totally agree, because a there's just too many human beings on the planet to not now bones everywhere. Yeah, So it's less about it's less about the like sacrilege of the body and more about the remembrance of the life, even if you don't know their name or all those things, but just knowing, oh there were people here who were beheaded like that, uh, just like acknowledging that that happened, even to me, is why that would happen to be like, oh,

Probably, God you it would have been a really great reporter and seventy one in Spain like that would have been such a great story. Back. I know a lot of press, especially in Spain, has covered this, so I

And none of the seals had been broken or anything apparently not yeah.

Wild, which I love it.

The faces they are just like they're like, Okay, keep trying, bitch.

Yeah, nice try. So there's a lot of Some of the reasons why people think that it's a hoax is that the slabs were taken to the Institute of Ceramics and Glass Oh wow, and uh, they did not find that there were any paint, any paint or dyes, so they don't think it was that. But a lot of people think that it was chemicals of some sort, and some studies suggest that they could even see the size of brush hairs that were used to paint with these chemicals.

Then you have to keep it up. You have to keep it You really have to keep it up. And then we find thirteen headless bodies under the thing, and you're like, well, shit, I didn't know this. Yeah, you're like, this is perfect, this is exactly in a line with what I was thinking.

Or did they somehow know that the bodies were under there the whole time?

Yeah?

I don't know. So then the woman Maria died in two thousand and four, and you know, the theory from that one guy was that maybe the faces would stop, but apparently they still.

These faces are still going in this house.

As far as I can tell, they are still telling you just.

Do the research on the bodies, like, let's get this over with.

Let's get it over with. But I think it's really actually it's a good thing for tourism in that sure small little area.

Yeah.

And I just want to see Maria showing up, like giving the middle fingers.

Yeah.

I want her to be on the floor being like, y'all you all thought the floor bitch. Yeah. So that's the story of the bell Mez faces.

Thank you for sharing that story with me.

What do you think going back to that voice, what do you think or the sounds it sounded like people underground screaming. Yeah it did.

I mean it had this the feeling, the distinct feeling of like wind, you know, and then howling, which is very bizarre.

I don't know if that was like, I don't know where it was recorded. It was kind of hard to I don't speak great Spanish, so it was kind of hard to find.

But I mean it was definitely creepy, you know. Yeah, I'm like, how do you make that sound?

I don't know, it's just the sun in the other room. Oh shit. But because like there's a part where wait a second, there's a part where at first you don't hear anything and then it's like whistling right there.

Yeah.

Can I play you some ghost voices? Yes, Okay, it's time for EVP or ev please perfect. EVP is electronic voice phenomena. It's when they believe ghosts have been captured, like what we heard. We heard two different recordings of ghosts captured allegedly. So I go to YouTube dot com, I type in EVP, same thing, say, drive up to YouTube honestly, same thing I do on EP. Yeah, and uh, and I just find random EVPs that people have posted

You're gonna give me like a multiple choice.

Sure or no? Yeah, yeah, but first let's hear what you think this is saying. So this first one is from Robert Kirk hyphen Hats, and it's at the Mansfield Reformatory.

Just got to say before you get into it. So far, lots of names on all these folks, a minimum of three names for everybody.

Oh, it's very good in the paranormal. Just you have to have three names. Noticing that, Yeah, which you know, I recently changed my name and I could not think of a good middle name. And now I'm like, if I want to be taken seriously in the paranormal, yeah, I might have to go through that process again. Okay, So Robin Kurtz hyphen Robin Kirk hyphen Hats at the Mansfield Reformatory, which is in.

Your words, Yeah, I know exactly where that is. Have you ever been I've been by it. I've never gone into it.

You gotta go in one of these days and start recording.

That's where they shut the redemption.

Yes, it's very haunted. The paranormal TV shows love it, and so does Robin Kurt hyphen Hotts. All right, what is this ghost saying? Did you hear it?

I did.

Now there is people stepping or hammering something.

But okay, oh wow, I really heard at that time something like I don't want to go or something like that.

Totally wait, I can't.

There's a step right on the last part. I know, I don't know. I don't want to something.

I don't want to something.

Yeah, okay, that's all, Like, that's all I can get.

Wow, what is it? A? Iowascous? B? I don't want to go? We see final Warning or D fine, I'll watch a stupid show. I'm gonna go with B because that's what it sounded like to me. I hear, fine, I'll watch your stupid show. I literally hear that. Yes, it is B. I don't want to go. Yes, that was pretty good. You're good at this. You might have a future in this if you if you want to, you know do three native. Okay, we're going to figure out how to do this one. This next one. This

I gotta get close to it? It's like two and a half or that or something like that. Two and a half of it.

Two and a half of that. That sounds like a Mary Kay n Ashley movie or something. Yeah, two and a half of that, two.

And a half of that or an episode of Sex and the City.

Totally, they did not think it was two and a half of that?

Okay, is it a ge?

What happened? M B? Have you seen my husband? C take your hat off? Captain? Or d tickle tickle tickle?

What was a again?

Gee? What happened?

I'm gonna go with ag what happened? Yeah?

Totally yeah, g what happened?

Yeah?

Oh my god, you're good at this. Yeah. They believe it was g what happened?

What happened? Like it? Yeah?

Man?

Man, those recordings it's pretty crapin.

Yeah. Yeah, would you go paranlem investigating for one of those?

Yeah? Really, because I would want to see I would want to be there for the recording to be because it's just like it sounds so it sounds so fake. You know, I'm not saying it's fake, right, I'm saying it sounds like somebody is going to get it.

But I'm like, yeah, what the hell. Well, I've recorded things like this before, and the thing is, most of the time you don't hear it.

In the Yeah, that's what I mean. I would want to go so I'd be like, I did not hear that exact where did that come from? You know what?

I mean to like, my creepiest one that I believe is one hundred percent real because I was there. I was the only one there. I was in a bathroom. I've played it on the show before, but I'll just tell you I was in the bathroom at this very haunted former hospital turned hotel. What could go wrong? Would you do that in the middle of nowhere in Arizona, up in the mountains and you hear a voice say I pooped here you hear it?

That's my kind of a ghosts, you know, totally. It's just that's that's how I when I move on to the next plane, I really want to spend a little time going I pooped.

Her, totally do that.

Yeah, you can take your hat off, Captain.

You can have a lot of fun with that, and I appreciate a ghost that is having fun. Yeah, Okay, I'm just going to fire off some paranormal phenomena and I want to hear what you have to say. How do you feel about and now I'm so and now I'm noticing that I asked it that way. How do you feel about?

Oh?

Sure, demons?

Can you tell me more about what you mean?

What are your demons?

I mean, I've definitely experienced them. I don't think they're in external power.

Though, okay, so well they're within you. Yeah.

My experience of demons is that it is uh. I think that demons are a human construct. To explain.

Are more.

Hmm. Evil is too hard of a word, you know, because I don't mean like evil, but like, you know, tendencies towards destructive things as opposed to creative things, you know,

Really yeah, so, but not it's not something that's attached to like a manifestation, a physical manifestation or anything like that.

Like exorcism or like a like a possession by or something like that. I mean, I think I think it fits in alignment with what I'm talking about, you know, is that like I think exorcisms were for people who were probably experiencing like severe psychic breaks or you know, women who were being treated you know, like being told

But those are cute, Like I love the look of.

Like great style. Like one time, I remember, one of the only times I ever messed around with makeup, I painted my entire face with my mom's like lipstick samples that she got from Red Oh. Yeah, I was like, I am the devil. It's a classic style.

You should shut up to Catholic school like that. I know with pants it would have turned me right around. Yeah. Now, I totally know what you mean because I have felt that feeling too, of like the demons, you know, because I'm addict. You know. It's like I have I feel that same thing, like I feel the addiction is demons crawling in I think of crawling. That's literally what I think of is.

Back in totally. What do you think of.

Time travel? Do you think it's real? Do you think it's possible.

I think it's totally possible.

Well, I mean UFOs could, Yeah, baby.

I here's my interpretation of time travel. I feel if I feel as though I have time traveled, but not in the Martin even fly gets into a DeLorean and

So it's like emotional time travel. Oh I never think about that.

Okay, that's the way I experience time travel. It's like second chances or opportunities to cause it's not the same experience, but to me, it feels as though it is. So it's specific to me. So A I get to decide whether it's time travel or not, you know, like it's not up to somebody else.

Huh.

But b I'm like, if I'm recalling that experience, there's part of me that is living it again, right, so traveling with me? You know?

So is deja vus somewhere in this?

I mean I think so? But deja vu specifically is that's about having a Is that about having a dream and then something happens from the dream.

Or it's just like a like you're in a moment and you're like, oh, yeah, I feel like I've done this before.

Totally. Yeah, I think so, because I have that feeling all the time, really like whoa like very specifically, like someone's saying something to me. It's not it's never anything like big, you know, it's always like somebody sitting over there looking over at me, having a drink of water and then saying something and I'm like, this has totally happened before, yeah, or I dreamt it and I was told that it was going to happen for some reason,

I started thinking a lot about Djevou a few years ago, and I started to feel this is my personal belief is like it is kind of all mapped out, like we're all going someplace on purpose, and then the deja vous is like confirmation you're, yeah, that you're supposed to be there. Yeah, I dig that.

I don't know though, I dig that. I think that's it's similar to what I'm like, being present is confirmation that you're exactly where you need to be.

I also.

Believe in reincarnation. I think some of that stuff because it's like, okay, so we have science, right, and science is like matter is neither created nor destroyed. So how could we not how could we not be you know, reinstituted and recycled in things.

Okay, So so our ghosts maybe that matter, not having a place to go or that's where it goes.

Well, that's not matter, it's energy, you know. So it's like the we only have so many like bodies, you know. But I think so, And I think sometimes the ghosts are spirits that are done and they're just hanging out. They don't. I don't think that when our spirits are done, you know, because I do think there's a point where we have completed what we're supposed to do. Because I think that our purpose is longer than just simply the lives that were you and I are currently living right now.

So do you have any thoughts or idea of where your spiritual being has been before?

Well, I was told I mean I haven't gone to a psychic, but I did get a couple like astrological readings, you know, based on my chart and stuff, and then my partner and I got one together, and I was told in the in the solo one and then in the partner one, that I'd been here multiple times and one of the previous incarnations was like a monk or some sort of religious thing, which tracks if I'm now a stand up comedian very similar purposes, you know.

I mean a lot. There's a lot of comedians that people are like they're a profit.

Uh huh, or just simply to me. For me, it's like just simply like spreading a message, taking a message out to people and offering that. You know, It's like I.

Can see that I haven't done it. I haven't done any kind of past life regression or anything.

But I didn't regress. But she just told told me like and that my partner and I had been together multiple times across those things, which is cool.

That's what a lot of will tell you, is that that we live past lives, and like the characters in this life are also in that life, but they're also different characters.

Right, Like my mom and my dad and I have all been on this thing together, but they weren't my mom and my dad the last time. You know. It's like it's kind of it's cool to think about it

So when you think about this, does it take away your fear of dying? Mm hm, me too.

Yeah, I don't really have a fear of dying. I used to, but I'm not. I'm no longer like afraid of it. It's actually seems cool but that's like considering it as realizing that it's not like the end, you know, it's only the end of this whatever this is, you know. And I think a lot of people consider that to be very morbid, but I think it's the opposite, you know, where I'm just like cool, I'm gonna make the best of this while I'm here. Yeah.

It's also like when you're in chow biz, like you get a nice gig for a minute, and then that ends.

It definitely does, and then you find another. Yeah, yeah, definitely, Like has that has Has that changed your perspective on dying?

I mean, you work at it that way like reincar, Like people are reinventing their careers or they're doing different Oh now I'm going to do a podcast. Now I'm going to be on a sitcom like whatever. Yeah, and then that ends, yep inevitably because sometimes you do it with the same people.

Yeah, you know, I was always a big fan of Six Feet Under and terrified of dying. But something that I've always thought about from that show is and it's an episode title, but somebody says it everything everywhere ends great inescapable? Why Like, yeah, why fight that? And that applies to everything, like you're saying, with jobs and stuff, and it takes a lot of the power out of the job too. You're just like, oh, this is what I'm doing right now. You know we're not doing right now, you know.

Okay, last one? Yeah, Bigfoot?

Do I believe in Bigfoot?

I don't know.

Yeah, what are my thoughts? I mean, I think it's cool that I always appreciate anything that creates community, and I think that Bigfoot is like a stellar example of like a community. You know, people looking for something.

Cult later no, because you never.

A cult leader, because I think you have to be able to interface with that leader, you know. And I definitely worst cult leader ever or best for that reason because you never get to talk to them. No robes, no nothing, no weird jewelry. I don't think that it's real. I think it's a person, you know, dressed up, okay, because there's just like no other There's never been any other thing like that. So to me, I'm like, it seems like some people having some fun.

You know. It's so funny. On my Patregon, I've been doing every single state I've been one at a time in our our lovely country. I've been going through each state and doing paranormal like just because I just want to like dig deeper and learn about other of cours. I wouldn't I wouldn't go to Alabama myself, but every single state I'm at. I just started doing this a couple of weeks ago. So I'm at Georgia. They all have.

Foots like their own, their own specific Yeah.

That's every state I've found so far.

House and then you find additional things too, right or just do you stop at bigfoot?

I mean it fascinates me that is it one dude or person or whatever that's just doing the road, you know, touring around the country or is.

It the concept? Uh? That to me, is it the concept being released into the ether into the experience and then confirmation bias seeing something and making it that bigfoot?

You know?

Yeah, it's like the one video and then people are seeing because like, you know, what you seek you will find, so sure you're gonna if you're looking for bigfoot, you're gonna find them.

Now, there's a thing within the paranormal that I'm obsessed with.

Uh.

There's a couple of different words for it, but one of them is agrigore, which is basically, if enough people think something it's true, they basically think it into existence, like a lot of urban legend ye type.

Things like the moth Man and stuff like that.

Yeah, that could be a lot of times things that don't have that typical like say ghost storyline of like wait, nobody died here, but why do we all keep seeing this? Y? This particular goes And there have been experiments where people write out a biography of a fake person and then they try to contact and they keep doing it repeatedly until they start making contact with this like fake thing. And so a lot of people think that Bigfoot is something like that.

Interesting.

Yeah, so it's not like a huge like an animal or mammal. It's more so this being. Like that's why you can't catch it.

Like a specter or like a real actual being that has come into being, because it has been.

To me it's magical, ye, whatever it is.

I mean, I also this is the one thing that I've been like no into it just to say, I mean, I'm also totally open to it the possibility, but it just seems it totally just seems like a person dressed up and then it just like caught fire with people like lolackness or something.

Like that that way, and now it's I don't know.

But that concept is really interesting that it then comes into being because so many people believe in it.

When the secret came out. Sure, I still use a I'm not gonna lie. I like that think things into existence. I've never seen it with a hairy monster. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know how much I believe like thinking a being into existence, but I definitely believe that if you're thinking towards something, it can happen.

Yeah.

No, I've had that happen. Yeah, very small things, right, I think, like a bigfoot or whatever. Like literally in October, I sent my manager an email that was like, hey, look, this is not out of desperation, but I need a job, Like I need a job. And then I literally got an email like three hours later that was like, hey, do you are you interested in this? And those two things, like that email and the second email were not connected. It's not like my manager was like, oh, yes, okay,

I love to look at things like that, and I'm glad that that to hear that you do too, Like, yeah, tell the world what you want, Yeah, then it'll give it to you.

That's right. I think sometimes it can just be within yourself, but I do think it's very powerful if you're willing to be because to me, that is like vulnerability, you know, being willing to say like, hey, I want this, you know, and it doesn't always work out exactly the way I want it to, but it usually works out, you know. And then my job is to not be like critical of it, to not be like, yeah, but I'm not

Yeah? Well, also, I think a lot of that is like intuition and just being trusting your gut, like maybe maybe I should take this. You never know what it could lead to. I mean, I've been a situations like that where I'm like I don't want to, but for some reason, I feel like I have to do this, and then I do and then I meet someone. You know.

That's literally what I was gonna say, because it's also for me. It's it's letting go of even the idea of what I think leading to something else looks like, because it used to be like, well, I don't know what other job it's going to lead to, and it's like letting go of the fact that like it might not be a job, you know, like it might lead to meeting somebody that's just like great, a great person to know, or like having a really great conversation in a room where you feel like you showed up for

Yeah, I've had I've done so many like gigs and so many things over the years, and the worst one I've ever done. First of all, I got a great story out of it because it was that bad. Yeah, but I also met such a great person that is still a good friend and has been just a wonderful person to know. But I didn't want to do that shit, sure, yeah at all, and I hated it. But we get a.

Great story and a great person out of it, yeah, which is very positive.

Well, I wanted to do this today. We did it and it was great.

Yeah. I've had a great time.

Thanks for doing that.

Thanks for having me, Ross.

So let's do a podcast goodbye. Yeah, tell us where you can where we can find you?

Oh sure? Oh that stuff mostly on the internet, you know, at riv Butcher on Twitter and Instagram. A lot of people are calling me RIV because of that, which I don't hate, but just want to offer that I'm only RIV Butcher because River Butcher was already taken in the years some random kids on everything.

Where does that?

I have no idea.

It makes me so mad when stuff like that happened. I know.

I asked people too, And here's here's like a similar story to what we were talking about before. I was going by RB for a little while before I was willing to take the leap of fully changing my name, and there's a guy on Instagram and Twitter who had RB Butcher as both, and so I wrote out messages

Great.

I have.

Every time that I have tried to do that scenario, I'm always convinced that it's someone that died because I never can get in touch with them. Yeah, they haven't posted in ten years.

That's the other thing too, Like all the people that I asked hadn't posted in forever, like had minimal posts and things. Yeah wow, but you know now here we are. So I share that because like pretty much the only thing I'm doing right now is like local shows in Los Angeles. Uh, I'm trying to think of I do. I am on a kid's show that's on Netflix, that's coming out sometime soon. I have no idea when cool just like one episode, but it's pretty neat called It's

Cool.

Didn't realize it was a lifelong dream. You know, you grow up, are you voicing or no? I got to be a person with the puppets.

Cool.

And the puppeteers were like, you're like a human puppet, and I was like, this is the compliment I've been waiting for my entire life.

Oh my god, a human puppet. Yeah, is there like a dude next to you or whatever?

Yeah? Wow, multiple people.

I get so lost in that stuff that I always am blown away when I see like a behind the scenes what it really looks like.

I know, it's so wild and it's so it's so physical, like what they have to do to do that stuff.

You know, and some of those like Sesame Street, it's like three people when doing that, they're.

Watching the TV while they're acting with the thing. And this is a lot. Yeah, this is a lot more than I thought.

Yeah, okay, well well that's what I got going on. Perfect.

Oh if you're in Los Angeles. I'm doing an hour at the Allegian on August nineteenth.

I'm obsessed with that place. Yeah, I love it so much fun. Thank you so much to River. Please check out the video version of this episode with the link in the description of this episode and Patreon. All that stuff is in there. And guys, you following the show you subscribed, could you please rate it five stars, read a nice review, or leave a ghost story there or send me a ghost story at ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com. I'm on Instagram at roz Hernandez TikTok