Patrick Hinds & Skye Borgman

What's that at the foot of my bed.

It's spooky and kooky.

I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming this way.

The wait a minute, I go, said.

Hiros Dress, Hey boo, it's me ros Dress Feles.

I am currently hiding out in my home as I.

Hope all of you are as well.

Because that's just life now, and I hope everybody is safe and healthy and washing your hands and helping your fellow neighbor in any way that you possibly can. I uh, I think this is just how we're going to be doing podcasts from now on. I promise you that I'm going to do whatever I can and whatever We're all capable at Starburn's Audio to be able to give you guys episodes every single week. And luckily I have an episode today that we recorded back in the old days

Hold on to me.

Him, being very sensitive to the spiritual world, understood and just wrapped himself around me and rocked me back to sleep.

Ah.

The rest of the night, I had very vivid nightmares and just slept very uneasy. Fast forward to about a week later, my boyfriend and I were at dinner and somehow the topic of sleep paralysis was brought up. He seemed hesitant to tell me something, until finally he told me that the night I had that experience, he kept waking up feeling like there was a presence in the

Angel.

Oh a Lexa sounds like she's pretty lucky and you better hang on to that man.

All right, on with the show.

Oh my god, you guys, Hi Hi, Hi Patrick. I am I'm late to the game, but I am fully true crime obsessed obsessed.

Thank you so much.

I love your podcast.

Oh my god. That's you know, Julian and I talk all the time about how like we forget that sometimes that people listen. Yeah, of course, because we just sit Your studio is so nice. Ours is not this nice. We just like sit in this hot, small room and drink bourbon and just yell at each other. Oh.

It's so fun though, because it's weird. I think that there's like a definite crossover between true crime and the paranormal. You know, Like, for sure, I deal primarily with the paranormal. But I also like when I was going when I first started listening, I was going through all the documentaries that you guys, do you say recap?

Is that?

Yeah, we say we recap true crime documentaries. Yeah.

I was like, oh my god, I've seen like almost all of these.

Yeah, I know, I mean, everyone like everyone is document true crime documentary obsessed.

Yeah, definitely.

But and it's it's just interesting to me that there is that parallel. I mean it's maybe maybe people that like because it's kind of spooky. Yeah, you know, there's a lot of things you guys covered that are spooky.

We did a whole thing last Halloween, not this past Halloween, but the Halloween before, where for like six weeks in a row, we only did like spooky paranormal documentaries.

Yes, I want to talk about the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I always think that like paranormal like ghost stuff, which is what I'm into, is like sort of the sequel to the to what you're talking about, Like you're talking about like spooky in real life and then I'm talking about like.

One in the afterlife exactly. That's where I live.

But so some of the the documentaries that you guys covered, and these are all ones that I've seen and I was recently was recently rewatching The Devil and Father a mort Yeah.

Yeah, it's a garbage documentary, but it's like, so it was made by the guy who made The Exercist.

Well, yeah, Bill Freakin, who Yeah, he's also I mean I love some of his work. I mean he also did Have you ever seen Cruising, Yeah.

The gay documentary from the seventies, The movie.

With al Pacina. Yea, yeah, yeah, yeah, you directed Cruising.

Oh my god, I didn't you guys, like that's like a historic gay movie.

No, I can do even one better. He also did The Boys in the Band he did.

I would have been way nicer to him if I had known that, you guys, Boys and the Band is like play by a guy named Matt Crowley from like the seventies pre aids. That was such a sensation that they turned it into a movie and like these days are unrecognizable to like today's gays, but it and it just had a revival on Broadway and they filmed that. They're making that into it like a new version of it. Anyway, I could go on about the gay history stuff for forever.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah, the thing about the Devil and so, okay, you've seen The Devil and Father Remore. You have to tell me what you think about did they enhance the sounds of her during her exorcism?

To me, it sounds like, okay, So this documentary, for anyone that has not seen it, it's basically okay. So the director of the Exorcist is trying to he does the whole thing.

And the staircase from the Exorcist. It's like, we get it, you may yeah.

We know, which I'm a huge fan of the Exorcist as well. Same and I come from the Catholic Church as a kid, and so that kind of stuff was an ultra boy. Oh my god. See I skipped that somehow I was in the choir. That I was in the choir.

That was my first time lip syncing because I could not sing. But my choir did a trip to New York City and so and I grew up in Michigan, and so I knew that if I was in the choir every day, I could do the trip to New York City. So I was lip syncing in the background. Yes, from my life truly for that bus pass to New York City to see Wicked.

Wait, you took a bus.

We took a bus from Michigan to New York. We saw Wicked and Hairspray.

Oh my god, what amazing tru that's the gayest trip I've ever heard of. Catholic church.

It really was all Catholic school anyways, so this movie borders on wicked in many ways.

Wait, your Catholic church took you to see hairspray, Well, Catholic school, I'm crazier.

I know. Interesting, It's like.

Harvey Firestein and drag the whole. Did they know that?

Yeah, but you know, but this was which is not that long ago, it's probably a eleven years ago, but even then it was.

Like, yeah, it's spun.

It's just a man dressed up as a lighty as I'm like taking notes over here, like you can make a career half of this.

Amazing.

So yeah, So the exorcism and devils and demons, like that's something that as much as I try to act like I'm just like, oh, it's all fake, Like they're still in me, Like it's still I know, deep down in there, I'm like that shit's really I know.

I'm the same. I'm totally the same way I'm told. Like I was telling Sky and all my friends, like, I'm staying at the W Hotel in Hollywood, which is so different than when I thought it was gonna be like fancy. It's like scary. It looks like what I imagine the hotel cecil, not like not like because it's like like like gross or anything. It's just big and scary. And I've been sleeping with all the lights on.

Well, I've been in both places. I've been in that hotel and the Hotel Cecil, and I will tell you it is no.

Just I feel like I'm the only one on my floor and like the ghosts are gonna come and get me.

For sure?

Are their ghosts in the w hotel?

I don't know. It feels like the hotel from the Shining. It's just huge. Those hallways go on for forever.

Oh yeah, that's creepy.

I stayed in a haunted historic hotel this weekend in San Francisco with long hallways and it's like you can just in your mind start seeing two little twin girls holding hands.

I'm the only one on this floor. I'm sure of it, and I'm gonna die here definitely.

Well, Hotel Cecil, which is Is there going to be a documentary about that?

I haven't heard of it, but I hope that there is.

I feel like I have given money to kickstarters that told me that they were going to get to the bottom of what happened to Alisa Lamb.

I know.

So going back to the Devil and Father Amort, Yes, okay, so he's this he's is he like the head exorcist Father Amort.

Yeah.

Yeah, he was like the head exorcist of the Vatican exactly, which like the Vatican, I think they would. They were saying that like, we don't actually that doesn't really exist, but it did and it was this guy.

Okay, so they have him. Basically.

It's interesting because the documentary is so much of footage of one specific exorcism, whereas do give them an exorcism to this woman and she is screaming a lot, and it is like an echo.

We there's a mole. It sounds like they added like a monster sound. Because yeah, so I kept saying our episode of True Crime Obsess where we talk about this, we're like, it is completely irresponsible if they enhance that sound and they don't tell us that, because if they didn't enhance that sound, this bitch was possessed.

Oh yeah, and.

The devil was coming out of her.

I know.

It's very strange.

It's a metallic it sounds like I mean, it sounded like a sound effect from a monster movie.

I just find that so irresponsible.

If you're making documentaries and you're doctoring them in that way.

You have to This is why I thought it was such a garbage documentary because it could like if that sound is real, she was possessed if it wasn't real, and they didn't tell us. It's all a garbage document.

Yeah, everybody is. And who will know?

I never know.

I know well because I listened to three specific paranormal ones that you covered, and.

Zach Beggins ones.

Demon House.

I was pointing himself into that house.

It's demon House, right, I was Demon House. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that one confused with hell House.

Okay, demon House, I okay, it's so ridiculous. I found it scary when I watched it. But you guys definitely point out some things that make me like you guys.

In this movie they said, so this is the house that they call like the most haunted house in America, right, And in this house a family reported that they're like six year old son, you guys, I'm I mean this literally walked up the wall, like parallel to the floor, walked up the wall, and like this is bonkers. And then so so like they move out of the house

What, Yeah, it's very strange. There's there's a lot of things.

I just imagine it has to be really hard to make a documentary about paranormal stuff if you're not capturing it on film, because you still have to make.

A movie and that good at it.

Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. I'm I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to.

It's scary though, because like they go down to the basement, which is like where the hell stuff was coming from, and they're like digging up the floor and it's kind of scary. But then they never find anything. And then they've got those like Ghostbusters machines. Yeah, they're like it, only the machine only makes sense to the guy who owns it, you know what I mean.

And this whole thing is actually bringing up something that I just remembered. I got full on bamboozled by a documentary that I thought was a documentary called The black Well Ghost.

Did you ever hear about it? Okay?

Well, because it's okay, so it's on Amazon. Sometimes I'm the kind of person that I go to Amazon and I see documentaries in theaters, like I'm a docum mention that person.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I'll go to the documentary section and just scroll through and see what we got. Yeah, and the paranormal ones, there's a lot that are like pretty uh not great, but there are. There was this one that is called The Blackwell Ghost, and I saw it and it has the spooky picture of this woman on the cover, and I'm like, I'm here's.

My three ninety nine Amazon Prime exactly. Yeah.

So actually I think it was free the first one. The first one's on the house, and then there's like five other ones. So I put it out and I'm like, this is the scariest thing ever.

It's this man.

He goes to this haunted house and he's full on filming everything. He's got camera set up and and it's terrifying. So then I'm like, I'm gonna google this. There's like no information about any of this, it's all maybe it is.

I don't think it's real.

Look it up. Look it up for yourself. It's called the Blackwell Ghost. There's like five sequels. You better believe I bought all of them.

I want it to be real and look at the end of the day, I want this all to be real. Yeah, you know what I mean.

Well, because okay, so I've listened to three pair of normal documentaries that you guys covered, and it seems like.

All of them you think are fake.

What's the other one? So we did?

The third one was Oh My Amneyville Horror, which is another one I've.

Seen, Yeah, which that guy's a mess, the guy that it's told from the point of view of the kid who was like the youngest kid in the Amityville Horror family, and he seems like he seems like somebody you don't want to run into at a bar, like he's scary.

Well, it's been a couple of years since I've seen it. Now, that one I'm very conflicted on because there's lots of uh there's been many uh critiques on the Amnyville case, like that family, Yeah, the Lutz family, many people have said have kind of you know, hoaxed the whole thing, and no one knows what's real.

I mean, some really terrible shit happened in that house. I mean, like that before the lets has moved in there, obviously, like one of the the kid of that family went and killed the whole family. So, like, if a place is gonna be haunted, that would make some sense to me.

Definitely.

The problem with what the Lutzes did was that they were like, it's demons coming from the basement, and like, you know, of all the families that have lived in that house since everyone's like, no, it's fine, girl, Yeah, yeah, everything's okay in here. Yeah, you know, And we actually, when I was younger, we drove, we like rented a car and drove out to look at the house. The neighbors on the street don't like it when you do that.

You can only imagine.

But I mean, you know, the thing about the Amityville Horror House is that it's like, you know, it's on like a half acre lot, Like it's you know, fifteen feet on either side is like the next it's just a little neighborhood. Yeah, so kind of like, well, if demons were coming out of the basement, don't you think like the neighbors would have seen something.

Yeah, I wonder if I need It's been quite a few years since I've gone deep into the Amnyville case, but I wonder what the neighbors had to say about this.

Yeah, where are the neighbor. Where's like, you know, where's Martha from next door? Who you know exactly? Like I mean, it's you know, it just it's one of like again, I want it to be real, not that I want these people to like suffer or whatever, but like I want to believe these people.

Well, but here's the thing where I get real conflicted is that kween Laraede Warrin. But so yeah, it's very interesting because like she did take that photo of the little boy ghost in that house, yeah, and which they talk about in that documentary.

And it's like, again, it makes sense to me that the house would be haunted, Like I mean, that some horrible should happen there. It's just like to the extent that, like I mean, if it's really true what this kid says in the Amityville, Miamiville horror, like they moved in and were sleeping on the bloody mattresses of like the murdered family that I'd like just moved out or you know, moved out, moved out to heaven, as I said in the podcast.

Well, either way, I find it very interesting to see the the after effects of somebody that grew up not even maybe in an incredibly haunted house, but also in like the crazy media storm of just being like a normal person that like, all of a sudden there's a movie about your house and.

Dad, like the George Lutz or whatever seemed like a two hot old garbage dada I. And you know, this kid was like running away from the time he was like eleven. Like, he definitely has some serious, I think mental health issues.

Well I'm sure. I mean, if you're seeing a pig with wolf teeth and laser eyes in the right exactly exactly. So what are your beliefs. Do you believe in ghosts?

Yeah, I mean I do. I definitely do. I mean I'm one of those people who, like, you know, I like I don't believe in the Bible, but I believe in God. You know, I'm like I believe that Jesus was like a real person, but like not the way that most people think he was. And like, so when it comes to that sort of thing, like I sort of walk my own path with my belief systems, and so I definitely believe in ghosts. I certainly feel like I've had paranormal experiences. Yeah, I was telling the crew

And it was chair was also floating.

The chair was also floating, and it was very like I mean, and I remember being truly paralyzed like I and I was like, is this just what life is? Now?

Like?

Am I just like living in a horror show?

Now? What was this woman doing just staring at you?

No, she didn't. It wasn't paying any attention to me. She was wearing like period clothes, like from like I don't eat Like she was like like a big woman wearing like, you know, clothes I would associate with, like the eighteen hundreds totally, and it was I've literally never told this to anybody. Exclusive Exclusive Chilian is listening right now. She's like, that's shut up, but like, I you know, yeah, I mean that's one of my strongest memories. I have another.

How did that end?

I think that I probably went back to sleep and woke up. I mean, like that's kind of how I remember it.

Like my god, yeah, that eighteen hundreds is like prime ghost fashion.

God, like what do they want?

I feel?

Just be dead?

You guys, I know that sounds to me like the the quintessential central casting ghostly totally.

Yeah, yeah, like a Victorian dress or something.

Yeah, it was big and blue and it was like billowy and she was like a big, heavy woman. I just remember it, like her floating in the corner and like I could see her clear as I'm seeing you.

Did you do you?

So?

Do you have sleeper paralysis?

Still? Of course I will tonight in the fucking terrifying w hotel.

But do you sleep on your back or on your stomach? That's my question.

I used to sleep on my back, and after I got married, my husband is a stomach sleeper, and I was like, oh, that looks fun. So now I'm like, I'm kind of like an all over the place sleeper.

This is great.

You're helping out my case because I always say that sleep paralysis I believe because I've heard this happens on your back.

This was for sure on my back. I remember, I remember being on my back. Yeah, you guys, don't sleep on your back. It's gonna kill you.

So I'm saying, but you get wrinkles on your face, so I choose the wrinkle my face.

Look, my face was never my money maker.

Wait, what was your other ghost story? You had another one?

Yeah, when I was a real So this one's kind of crazy. When I was like when I was probably

Wait, what's the death Crone?

Apparently it's like the lady version of the Grim Reaper.

No way, I guess. So did anybody die?

No, nobody died, We're all still here. Interesting what if I was like, well, actually, a week later, my brother was hit by a bus.

Now I know.

Wait, okay, so this is uh wait the Crone Goddess. I wonder if that's the same thing. I'm trying to google this right now.

The death Crone. I don't know. That's why. I just remember my mother saying the death Crone.

So how did you know it was a ghost?

Because I remember she like, well, she it was either a ghost or a robber, like who else would have be like somehow like this old lady broke into my house in the middle that I you know what I mean. And I guess I just knew that it was a ghost because I wasn't scared. I I just like, she didn't speak, and it just felt ghostly.

But did she look like you? And I right now like yeah, but like.

An old, old woman like imagine like Sophia from the Golden Girls.

Oh okay, so she did look like me?

Right now, Dead Ringer, Wait, describe this drag ensemble that I'm wearing for the for the listeners at home.

Okay, so you're wearing so you have a bouffont what I would describe as a bouffont hair style. Yeah, I would say the purple. And it's like a sort of a French twist. I love it. The dress is sequin, it looks like it's it looks like you would be hot in it.

Yeah, I yeah, I'm sweating lots of backsweat.

Do you call that a petticoat?

I call it a petticoat because it causes lots of problems. Yea, he's petty. Yeah.

And the bustle. I don't even know how you're sitting right now.

Well, you know, it's one of America's greatest mysteries.

But I do the color, it's be dazzled within an inch of its life.

Yeah, thank you? Oh my god.

Wait, speaking of mysteries, and and you know, just abductions and wild and crazy things, I want to talk about abducted and plain sight who doesn't.

Why Why isn't everybody always talking about that?

I know I watched it when it first came out, and then I was kind of refreshing about it. And you do we have more details about it?

Yeah, So with Skyborgman, the director of the film, we made a podcast called Obsessed with Abducted in plain Sight Amazing, and yeah, we have more details.

We also have Sky.

We have the fabulous Skyborgman her. Yeah, let's bring her in.

All right, Well, we're gonna take a break and we're gonna bring back the director of Abducted and plain Sight, Skyborgman. Guys here, Hi Scott, Hi, Okay, so what are we talking about on the new podcast?

Well, so Sess was abducted in plain Sight sort of. What happened was Sky and I met. We covered Abducted in Planesight on Tu Grasst. Obviously Sky and I became friends afterwards, and we were like at a bar one night in New Orleans and she was I was just asking I was talking her ear off about it, and she was telling me all of these stories that got

I feel like everyone probably saw it, but for anyone that didn't, what's like the main story.

I mean, basically, it's about a little girl who was abducted by the family's best friend and neighbor twice.

Basically, you know, it's a pretty simple story, I know.

And it was in the seventies, right, it was in the seventies, which I'm I mean, I was not really around in the seventies. I was, but I feel like a lot of people tell me like, oh, that's how it was. You would just go to do a neighbor's house and like, there's no big deal. They kidnapped you three times, You're fine, end up in Mexico.

I mean, like you did.

Go like we would be outside playing all the time and go to neighbors houses and doing all of that in the seventies, and.

So yeah, that's normal, but getting abducted twice really is nuts.

No.

But you know, the thing we've been talking about this a lot today is that, like they were also Mormons, and I think that because they were in such a tight knit community, there was inherently more trust there.

That makes sense.

Part of the faith too.

I mean, you know, I think there's something in the whatever religious book they have, you know, that says trust people to get.

Hello.

Oh that's right, you're also a Broadway guy.

Yes, But also we shouldn't forget that they were like meticulously groomed by this predator for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah, he came and he was just like he saw their little chinks and he directly went after those chinks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And he also was trying to blackmail the parents. I remember there was like a kind of a gay sex scene of some sort.

Yeah, there was a handy, for sure, there was a handy.

In a car, and then he tried to use it against the guy I remember.

Well, so yeah, I mean he had affairs, Well, he had an affair with Jan's mom. I'm telling the plot of your movie. Go ahead, and then he had like a sexual encounter or two with Jan's dad. And then when when he came back from the first kidnapping. God,

So he took her to Mexico to get married right when and they did get married.

Did they get married? We think they got married.

I mean they came back with a marriage certificate and then the parents gave it to the FBI, and then the FBI never made a copy. The parents never made a copy, so we can never really find it anywhere. But apparently they got married in Mexico.

Here's the point of confusion. I've had did so And we were talking about this in another thing earlier today that like how do we say this like, did they did the Is there any world in which the parents actually gave consent for the marriage in Mexico?

I don't think so. I mean, you know, again, it's like who really knows.

But I mean, we are dealing.

With a faith that olderman marrying younger women isn't completely outside of the norm. I mean, it doesn't happen all the time, you know, but it has happened before. And it depends on you know, I mean all of your ld Yes, we'll talk about the fundamental lds, those Warren Jeffs in the world.

And they will say that they are not the same, not the.

Same thing, right, two very different sort of ideologies, and so you know. But it's also living in close proximity to that. So maybe it wasn't so unusual that an older man would be marrying a younger girl.

Yeah, but still even if that is normal.

No, yeah, it's no, no, no, no, no no no.

I get what you're saying.

Here, obsays we can don't underage marriage.

I don't know.

So what what are some like can you give us like a little a little peak of like some things that you'll be talking about on the podcast.

Well, we asked jan her thoughts on whether or not her dad is gay, and.

Had her on the podcast.

Yeah for sure, Like we brought her in. We did a big, long, like six hour long conversation with.

So because Yeah, there was a moment her dad very like nonchalant. Well I shouldn't say that, but he he confessed, like in this documentary that he had this experience. It's kind of like that fire documentary where the guy, yeah, you know what he talks about, like the blowjob scene or whatever.

Like Andy King, I know that guy, do you? Yeah? I mean, like he was like I could talk about this for forever, but yeah, in an act of masturbation.

It's so interesting that how he just like confesses that, like in the documentary, well, he'd never.

Talked about it really before.

I mean, and I think, honestly, I think that this whole sort of situation that we were in where he was kind of sitting there, we had a camera rolling, we were hanging on his every word. You know, it's such a different thing because you're talking to somebody and nobody's kind of cutting you off or saying, oh yeah, yeah, you're telling me this story.

I'm going to tell you my story.

You know, but you've got these people who are sitting there behind the camera just listening and being quiet, And I really really think that it was very cathartic for him. He'd never really talked to his family about the details, Like they knew something had happened, but they weren't sure what exactly, And in fact, a lot of them kind of talk about after the fact watching the documentary and going on, I have more information now than I've ever had about what happened.

We're saying that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and mary Anne too. I mean, he'd never really talked to his wife about it, and then she asked him about it the night, either the night after his interview or maybe the night after her interview when we were there. She'd asked him, well, you know, what did you talk about? What did you tell them? And he kind of gave her a few more details. But then even watching the film, I think was a revelation for a lot of them.

And was when the bad guy's wife, Gail, right, which I know you.

Don't like it when I say that, but it's my favorite.

Thing, when she went to have them sign the affidavis to be like, we're on blackmail. You did she so she didn't say, like in front of the wife, like we're going to tell that your man hooked up with my man and.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, well maybe not in a car or maybe not which direction anything went. I mean she definitely knew that something had happened and that Bob was hugely emotional about it. And look, there's the blackmail. There's a like signing. But what we didn't talk about really is this emotional blackmail. I mean they're saying, you husband, regardless of if it's a man or a woman, has cheated on you, yeah, big time, bad, bad, bad, and that he did it with a man even more bad, bad,

Mom, sir, Yeah, but there's a lot of stuff, Like there's a whole subplot that was left out of the film about Birch told the kidnapper going to Mexico and trying to adopt a little girl from there that got cut from the film.

We have all that in the audio recording, Like I love the bad guy saying that like.

His audio journalist from the seventies that were recovered by the FBI that Sky and her team were able to get, which is just unbelievable.

He died in like two thousand and I want to say four or five something around in there.

Yeah.

Wow.

There's also we have tape of Gail the wife. She did audio journals too, and we have her in the podcast.

Oh my god, I know it is crazy, insane and is it out already?

Yeah? All four episodes are available to binge right the second amazing wherever you get your podcasts.

I know what I'm doing later.

So I want to ask you this guy as a director of documentaries, So how do you feel about if someone was doing a paranormal documentary and they made it fake, you know, they doctor it a little bit.

Did you hear what we were talking about?

Yeah, yeah, I totally did, so it is it is somewhat unethical. I think you know to do that. It's it's interesting because I think that you have certain sort of tools at your fingertips that you can help kind of create the drama. But I think like the drama that you were talking about, like augmenting or enhancing a voice or a monster voice and an exorcism in a documentary, I mean that's the thing is like, yeah, I think you do have to sort of say, look, this is this is not.

Real because I will say it until I'm getting as mad as I was when we covered it on TCO. If that sound really came out of her, she was possessed. She was definitely, and the devil was like, bitch, I'm coming out like.

And they they presented it to us as if, yes, that is what happened. Yes, she is possessed, And here's the footage.

Yeah, it's it's ridiculous because it sounds possessed. The only thing is that it sounds exactly like any monster demon possession sound that you've heard in any fake, actual narrative movie. So it's like, I don't know, but here's.

My question also about possessions and like these documentaries that I see like that, So that is specifically like a Catholic church kind of possession that the.

Catholics get possessed. By the way, your guys, That's sort.

Of what I'm wondering, because I think that there are other there are other Christian religions that do sort of you know, where they put the hands on the people, and like, I don't know what exactly is going on up that is possession. But what I'm wondering is why is that only like I don't hear about that very much in America.

I mean, yeah, like.

There's been a couple of famous cases and like the one that inspired the Exorcist movie.

But yeah, it seems like by the way, there's.

An article in Weird magazine about a guy who tracks down the little boy that the Exorcist is actually made up, made about as an adult, as an adult, and in this article, I like read it once a year and you just google like Weird, W E I R D Magazine the Exorcist, and it'll it's like this amazing investigative p It's unbelievable.

Okay, cool, Yeah.

But yeah, I'm just saying, like they talk about in the documentary, like thousands of exorcisms that this man has done, and I don't hear about that very much in America.

No, And I think because I think that, you know, my takeaway on that whole thing was, like, I think that people can believe that they are possessed. I think that people who are deeply religious can be made to believe that they are so bad that they have to be possessed in order to have done whatever the people around them are saying they have done that have made them so bad. Like this is my problem with organized religion in general, is how powerful and manipulative it can be.

Yeah, it is rough.

Oh my god, I'm getting so mad.

Do you have paranormal experiences?

Well, so, one thing, like when I was thinking about it, in terms of this sort of coming on this podcast. There was something that happened while we were shooting abducted in plain sights. Really that was kind of creepy and really weird. So we went to the house that the Brobergs had lived in when all of this abuse happened.

Right, Robergs are the good people, right, the parents?

Yeah?

Yeah, And and they don't live there anymore. They sold the house. Somebody bought the house and they were renting it out. So the people who were currently living there had moved in and their little girl, I mean she was like one or two years old, was in Jan's bedroom, like the bedroom that Jan had been in where all of this abuse had happened. So it's really really creepy.

Like, oh my god.

Birch told was always dressed in white. Oh my god, that's one thing they said their interviews as Birch told this wore this white suit. And she was like, there's a bad man. There's a bad man. And so the mom would was sleeping, like would put a mattress down and sleep next.

To her, and she sent to sleep.

Bedroom I know, bedroom. Yeah.

But then I'm like, so what happened?

What?

How did he go away?

And her dad, who was like a bishop in the Mormon church, gave her a blessing and that made him go away.

See, say what we want. That shit seems to work. And I know I don't like it.

I totally agree.

So okay, but did they know about the history of that house at that time?

At that time, they didn't. I'm not entirely certain when they knew the history of the house, but it was before we came along and asked them about it. Like they had sort of put it together with the Brobergs and all of that. And then Jan was there with us, and Mary Anne the mom was there with us, and they were kind of talking about things, and they'd kind of all put it together and they're like, oh, that's

It's like Birch told this bastard can't just be dead. He's got to come back and haunt them.

Yeah, he's got unfinished business.

I'm for sure, for sure, that story is a great crossover for what we're talking about here with your pop guests in this podcast.

It's amazing.

It's amazing.

It's amazing because I remember thinking about it, just going we were so freaked out by this, by this story. And then I went back and I was like listening to it, to the interview that I have all the footage that's in this big hard drive, you know, and I was like, oh, and I just got chills again because it's so creepy.

God, do you guys want to listen to ghost voices?

Yes?

Okay, yes, it's time for EVP or ev please. Do you know what EVP is?

No? I don't.

It's electronic voice phenomenon. So it's when they capture a ghost speaking on camera with a digital recorder.

And I like to go to YouTube.

I find people's EVPs, and I want you guys to guess what they believe this ghost is saying, Okay, Now, I wanted to get New York ghosts, but I've used pretty much all the New York ghosts up on YouTube. I found some video from huff Paranormal, who is a YouTube channel that just like they're like EVP Royalty. They are just like posting evp's non stop left and right.

Yes, ma'am, they get.

Tons of views. But this one was I can't really tell where this video is.

It's kind of unclear. The word NYC was in the title, but this seems to be I can't really tell where this was. It was too much work for me, but it's it's in a video. At least these EVPs were taken in a hotel room. Later, he walks around.

The streets of New York and he hears ghost voices. Okay, wait, so I'm so scared.

I'm scared.

Well, okay, tell me what you think this ghost is.

Okay, I want you.

It's a lot of like fuzz.

Sorry I should have warned you, but you can hear in the bad just if you really get this focus in.

Or I like you.

I can only hear I want you, or I like you, I want you, or I like yeah that's all I ever hear.

Okay, is it a you're not my wife?

What scenario would that page my wife? B?

Sure girl? Tonight? See turn off the light or d turned down? For what you know? Little John?

Wait? Can we hear it again? Yeah, turn off the light.

That's what they think it is. Turn off the light? Less? This again?

Oh my god? How am I supposed to go back? How am I going to sleep in my creepy hotel room tonight?

What you're saying at the W a creepy hotel?

I don't like that.

That's a creepy hotel. I can lead you in the direction of some creepy hotel. Wait, I do want to talk about the caeseon hotel. But wait, let's talk. Let's do one more EVP Okay, this one same video? Uh Now, this to me sounds pretty clear. And he says that there was no TV on the hotel didn't even have a TV.

So what is the say? This was also at the W hotel. Okay, let's listen to it.

I made with you again, I.

Need you to go.

I need you to go. What do you think.

I made?

I need to I need to go, I need to go.

And you said what I need you to go? I need you to go? Okay, is it a I made him go?

B make it go see Two Birds, One Stone or D I'm staying at the w Definitely I'm gonna go with I made I made him go.

That sounds like very clear. Yeah, Okay, Wait, let's talk about the season hotel. So do you know about this?

Please?

Oh, Sky, you're in for crazy.

Yeah.

They need to make a documentary about it.

They do. So.

Basically I first heard about it, when a lot of people heard about it was because there was Alisa Lamb. Yes, so this woman was found in the water tank on the roof of this old depression era hotel and downtown Los Angeles.

You could go.

See it after this, yeah, yeah, And basically there's a lot of unclear things because no one knows how she got in there. No one knows if it was suicide, no one knows if some foul play or paranormal. But people started complaining that the water tasted like bodies, or it tasted weird.

The water was like discolored, it was like taste.

And gross, and then so they went up in the water tank and they found her. But that place in particular has had maybe dozens of deaths and suicides and murderers living there.

But there's more to that story because the other thing about it is there's the security footage of her in the elements. So she's in the elevator and she's doing I mean, you have to look this up. It's so crazy.

It's so creepy.

She's like in the elevator and she's like hiding and then she like looks out and then she hides.

Yeah, it looks like she's reacting to something that is not there. Now. She also was mentally ill and so but.

She was like on a vacation. She was like she was well enough to be able to travel by herself to Los Angeles.

It was all very mysterious. Yeah, so no one knows, but I do know that. So Okay, a lot of people have jumped out of the windows, and in fact, one time somebody jumped out of a window and landed on someone that was walking.

Down the street.

And that's the worst fear in New York. By the way, I'm always looking at yeah, that some asshole is like today's the day and they're taking me with him.

No, So basically was gonna say, is there is a photo that somebody took that of a window there that from the outside that appears to be a ghost.

Jumping out of a window.

Oh my god, I'll.

Post it in our Facebook group. Goes by rous but yeah, look it up.

It's so One of the things I've heard about the Cecil Hotel is that like if you get in the elevator and you take you travel in the elevator in a certain sequence, the doors will open and you'll be in another dimension. Yeah.

I don't know.

I think you can find it. It's like it's online somewhere. But it's like they say that that's what she was trying to do. Well, she was like trying to take the elevator in a certain sequence.

Well, that place is definitely a building with bad do do. Like, they're not.

Called Cecil anymore, I think, right.

They tried to rebrand it to a place called Stay on Maine, but it still has like that old brick like painted on the building it says Cecil Hotel.

Oh wow, now I want to I last I heard it was this is pretty recent. It was like not open. I don't know. They're just constantly trying to be like, no.

It not happened.

Like, embrace him. You're not going to run away from it.

So yeah, but because also like the Nightstalker Richard Ramirez lived there when he was doing some murders, there was another murderer that was killing women that lived there.

Have you been there?

Well, this one night, I was like this is very me. I'm like, Okay, I don't know what to do tonight. Let's go someplace spooky. So I called up my friend and I was like, let's just like go and see what's up. Because from what it sounds like, ladies are just going into the water tanks, so they won't notice that we don't stay there, so let's just go in.

Yeah.

So we like walked in and I'd already seen the video of her in the elevator and everything, and the people there was just people you know that work there in the lobby, and they just kind of looked at us like whatever, and we just acted like we stayed here. And we went into the elevator and it was so surrealvator because I've seen that video so many times and I'm in the elevator going up and we were just like, let's just go to like the highest floor.

And then walk around. I don't know what to do, so would you do?

So we just we went all the way up and we started walking around, and I'm I think I'm a little sensitive to two energies, and it was just I.

Didn't like it there.

Did you go up to the roof?

We know, we didn't go up to the roof, but we walked. We went to a floor and it's very like hostile where it's like a community bathroom kind of thing, and so we just kind of walked around and I got.

I totally want to go.

I should go. I want to go.

I don't know if it's open or not, but I know it was real cheap to stay there. We didn't stay there.

It seems like it would be.

Definitely you didn't stay there.

You can't tell the W at the Cecil Hotel.

I'm telling you, it's not.

It's not like I have expensive taste. I'm just afraid at the W.

But then eventually someone caught us after like literally like five minutes of a bitch, get out of here. Yeah, And I was so glad they did, because I did not like it up there.

God, can you imagine working there, Like imagine being on staff at the Cecil.

And they must deal with people like me all the time, all the time. It's like they have more of us than they do guests. Oh, I'm sure, but it is like a less than one hundred dollars a night kind of place, like I can't remember, crazy, I can't remember if it's open or not.

I have to look that up. But oh, it's time to wrap it up.

Oh my god, it's been so much fun fun. I'm sorry I got so mad about the Catholic Church.

It's okay, it's okay. It happens to us, it.

Does, so so tell people again where to find you, guys, and what's going on.

So you can find Obsessed with Abducted in plain sight anywhere you get your podcasts. You can find my other podcast through Crime Obsessed wherever you get your podcasts. Uh, you can check out our network. It's the Obsessed network dot com and you can see all the podcasts would make. Yeah.

And for me, I don't know, I'm so terrible at that social media stuff. But all of my socials are Skyboorgman and my production company is top Not Films.

And you can watch Netflix anywhere if you haven't.

Yeah, that's true, that's true.

Yes, And I highly recommend it.

Wait did I say obsessed with? What did I say?

Oh? What did you say?

What I said? You can watch You can watch anybody.

Of Holy Waters.

Your your movie is called Abducted in plain Site.

Oh it is, it is.

It is.

That's what it's called. And you can watch it anywhere. But I'll watch it if you haven't.

And also go watch The Devil and Father Amort.

So weird, you guys. Don't go in with high hopes.

All right, Thank you, guys, thank you, thanks for having us. Of course.

All right, well now you got some stuff to go binge watch and listen to as well, and lots of sleep paralysis today. But you know what, it wouldn't be a ghosted episode if we didn't talk about it.

Guys.

I love you guys so much, and again I hope everyone is staying safe and healthy. You can always go listen to old episodes and the mean time. And I think I'm gonna do this thing that I'm going to commit to where I am just on this podcast feed so you don't have to do anything as long as

But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me.

Hey bye.

Star bands are a podcast a podcast network. Mm hm