What's that at the bed? It's spooky, I'm jooky. I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming, it's way.
Wait a minute, I'm gosted runs dressed lens.
Plase, Hey boo, it's me Ras. So I'm actually recording this right now on my birthday. So today's well, you're listening to this. It came out on Thursday. My birthday is Wednesday, October twentieth, and.
I don't know.
I'm not that much of a birthday person, but I guess it's my whole birthday week celebration. So you know, if you want to get me a gift, all I ask is just to go tell your friends and your followers about Ghosted. You know it's perfect for Halloween times, so just you know, spread the word. That's all I ask of you. I don't need happy birthdays and balloons and cakes and strippers or any of that stuff. Just wait strippers for birthdays or bachelorette parties. I don't know
either way, I don't need a stripper. All I need is if you to tell your friends about the show, if you want to, I don't know. Thank you anyway. I had a lovely weekend. I went to Palm Springs. Not to celebrate my birthday, I went for a wedding very Hollywood style, ran into actually a lot of previous guests that have been on the show, had such a nice time.
And I also had a psychic reading.
And we actually talk a bit today about this kind of thing briefly here at the top of my conversation with Michelle Bell and Jay on this part two, we talked about storefront psychics.
And I went to something kind of like that. I mean, it was in a store and.
It was I was with my best friend Sam Pancake, former podcast guest, and we took turns getting these readings. And this particular person that read me, he had a bunch of different cards, so he's like, all right, pick three of these and then okay, now pick three of these, and now like reach your hand in this mysterious bag and pick three things out of it.
I'm pretty sure this was a psychic.
I went to I don't know, and it was all these kind of readings where it was just kind of like, oh, I'm just gonna tell you things about you, you know what I mean, where it was very like, ah, okay, you're you're very strong and you've lived an interesting.
Life, and.
You like to eat food, and you breathe, and you sometimes sleep at night. It's like get very like, okay, you could say that to anyone, you know, that kind of a thing. So and then I was like, okay, well, can you like tell me a bit about my future? And he's like, we have to ask a specific question. And so I was like, how will I feel a year from today? I feel like that's a good question to ask a psychic or a card reader or something. And he said that a year from that day, I
was gonna feel very good. So he must be legit because he told me what I wanted to hear.
You never know about these things. I don't know.
God, I've spent so much money in my lifetime on psychics. But anyway, I should also say I unfortunately had to cancel my second live show in la I apologize. I had announced it and then I had to basically instantly cancel it last week. So very sorry about that. If anybody was hoping to go, I'm just doing the one
on the Friday. It's completely sold out. You could keep an eye on my Instagram if for some reason tickets do open up somehow, I will post about it, but other than that, you know, it's the first one back after you know, Lockdown and everything, So you know, we'll see how it goes. And maybe I'll just do a bunch more. Maybe I'll do them all over the place.
I'm not sure.
Right before the pandemic, I had all these plans. I was gonna go all over the place doing these these shows. But so that's the goal, that's what I hope. Maybe that's what the psychic was talking about. I'm not really sure, but so I'm sorry about that. For anyone that was excited to see that live show, it will not be happy. Only the one on the Friday it's sold out. Also, next week will be our Halloween show, I guess I mean it will be out. I believe that's the twenty eighth,
so not Halloween exactly. But I thought I would do something fun and different, and I did talk about this briefly a couple weeks back. I was looking for voice notes and stories and questions and that kind of a thing, and I posted a bit on my social media as well, and so I decided I would do an episode by myself, without any guests.
I was kind of nervous.
I've never done anything like that, just me talking for like an hour, but I think it ended up great. And the team at Sturboran's Audio, who produced my podcast, we shot it in person on video.
I almost said film, How old am I on video?
So there will be a link next week in the description of the episode where you could watch it for the first ever on video episode.
And the whole team at Star Wars did such a great job.
We've got fun, little cute effects, and I listen to voice notes from you guys and answer some questions, and I tell some stories and we listen to EVPs and it's just like, you know, it's a cute little slumber party and I'm trying something different, and I hope you enjoy it. So look out for that next week as we celebrate Halloween. Oh god, we're so close to it, which almost makes me sad.
I get sad. I hate okay.
I just need to be in the moment because I get sad as I get close to Halloween, because then it means it's over. I hope you guys are having fun. I hope you're going to all the places, all the spooky things wherever you live. And you're watching lots of good spooky movies. Anyway, I hope I can give you a little bit more of that today with the conclusion to my conversation with Michelle Belna and this second part
we get into a lot of stuff again. We talk about psychic stuff, we talk about conjuring demons, and then we get into world religions. Now again, this is inspired by the book that I was reading that she wrote, and she does talk a lot in the book about the various religions of the world and their views on this dark sided stuff, and so we talk about that, and on Patreon this week we talk even more about it.
We talk about the d Book, which is something I had heard about but I don't know a bunch about. It's a Jewish mythological figure that is, you know, a malicious spirit. Some you know compare it to a demon, and she had a lot to say about it. So if you got a patroon dot com slash Ross dress well as on my second tier, we talk about that.
And on my first year this week, on my way home from Palm Springs with Sam, I did a little mini episode of the little podcast that Sam and I did A couple of months ago on Patreon and I just talked to him about Halloween and it's fun and we hear a little bit about his past Halloween experiences. Okay, I say we get into it. I hope you enjoy part two with Michelle Bell and j On with the show. Well, the last time you were on, we talked a lot of about you being you know, a psychic and the
abilities that you have. And one thing that I was thinking about more as I was reading your book, since it's a ghost Hunter's Guide, was I wanted to hear more about your thoughts of when being a psychic. You know you just you your thoughts of a psychic in terms of paranormal investigation.
When is then a good tool? When is that how do you like to use it, etc.
Well, from the last story I mentioned, I always like a second or third opinion, and that goes with using a psychic for any kind of paranormal investigation. Especially psychic abilities are really useful and also it's really easy to be front loaded. If you are working as a psychic for a paranoral investigation team, you should not also be the person researching the property. You should ideally be kept in the dark as much as possible so that you
have as accurate a reading as is humanly possible. Now, we can never be one hundred percent objective, and we should always have our perceptions checked someone. You know, if you walk into a room and you're like, I see someone who looks like this, and I think this happened there, you shouldn't be the person who then tries to do the research to prove it. So also the team should.
In my opinion, the best use of a psychic on a paranormal team is as one of the various methods used to measure, read, and perceive what's in the location, and should be used like any other tool, which is to say, taken with a great assault, and always verified whenever possible. As a psychic, I try really hard not to get invested in being right or wrong. I simply try to experience and report those experiences as objectively as possible,
with as little interpretation as possible. That can be difficult when you know it's just me and I'm being called on to play multiple roles. I'm both the investigator and the researcher, and also the person trying to solve the haunting and the person trying to like just read the
room and get a feel for what's actually there. That requires, in my opinion, a fair amount of training for objectivity, to be able to step back and not let your ego get all wound up in whether you're right or how cool it is, but to just try to let things speak to you and do that as safely as possible.
Do you have days where your psychic abilities are just like just not you can't, can't get it to happen?
Yeah, And I think anybody who works as a psychic needs to get very comfortable with saying I got nothing yeah, because if you hit a point where you're not getting anything in a space, ay, there might be nothing to get be It just might be you that day, And if you try too hard, you may start making stuff up and at that point you start losing your objectivity.
That's my problem with like storefront psychics. You know, there's a demand for them to tell me something if I'm going to go and pay my thirty dollars, And I'm just like, did they really like get a hit every time? Or are they just you know, coming up with something.
One thing I can say for sure about that is I don't trust myself to do that, which is why I don't do readings for hire, because the pressure of someone who's now paid me money to tell them something, there is pressure to perform there, and I get all tamed up on myself. I find it a lot easier to just get a call from from Jack or Katrina or somebody and like, hey, we've got a cool space and we'd like to just throw you into it blindfolded,
and I'm all like cool. I love experiences, but you know, make me do it for money, and that pressure to perform becomes a really slippery slope.
So you don't feel that pressure when there's like a camera crew and all that.
No, because for me, that's more experimentation. I'm getting an opportunity to be in the field and just test the abilities, and I'm trusting the team around me to confirm, deny, or debunk anything I come up with. It's a way of one sort of stretching my abilities, but more than that, just get confirmation, some validation that what I'm doing has
like a real aff effect in the world. It's not just stories that I'm telling in my head, because I'm also a fiction writer, Like I can make some stories up.
Well, but doesn't doesn't a lot of that, you know, isn't it all kind of a what's the chicken or the ag whatever?
Like?
You know, doesn't it kind of inform some of the stories that you can fictionalize later as well with your writing.
That my shadow Side series with conspiracy of Angels and harsh gods and whatnot, I freely use that as a playground to experiment with what if about certain abilities and also to sort of share with people how I experience the world, but in like a bigger, louder, dramatized sort of way. Yeah, I don't think that there's a way for me to divorce the way in which I experience the world from any of my writing. It's so much an integral part of me.
I'm glad that you put up portals to Hell because you know that's sort of uh. That show came out right when this podcast really started, and Katrina was I think she was my first TV ghost Hunter guest. And she's been on like three times now, and Jack's been on, and You've been on, and it's become that's become like kind of our definitely one of our favorite shows over here. A ghosted by Roz Jessephlez and I saw you on
the most recent batch of episodes. Do you yeah, when you you show up to these places, I just I love watching you on these shows. You show up to these places, you confirm all this stuff, and then you're like, all right, have fun, bye guys.
Totally.
So then what do you do? You just go back to like your hotel room and yep.
Hotel room or half the time, I literally like a drive out and I turn around and I just drive back home.
Is that exhausting for you spiritually or.
A little bit? But I think it's like training for a marathon. I've been doing that sort of stuff so much that I know how it to paint myself, And even in locations that are pretty extensive and overwhelming, I know when I'm wearing thin, and I know when to ask to stop. Twenty years ago probably wouldn't be able to just you know, dive into Penhurst and wander around blindfolded for like two three hours. I have a terrible sense of time, so I literally have no idea how
long these things take. Like I'm just there in my zone with the with the blindfold on and just in my head and you know, just kind of getting moved from space to space and just trying not to bang ahead on anything, and it sort of plays out in its own none time, like it's just it's just I don't know the feel of the space. It's hard to describe. It's really hard to put into words, and I'm a wordsmith.
Well, A lot of the places that they go to, like a common thread is that there may have been or there is proof of people trying to conjure up demons or you know, that sort of a thing.
And I have kind of an idiot question about that.
I don't think any questions when somebody's trying to summon a demon.
I mean, what are they hoping is going to happen?
That is a damn good question, because sometimes I really wonder.
Even as I was reading your book, I was like, wait a minute, why do people do this? Like especially people like I don't know, just like a bunch of goth teenagers, I just want to try out or whatever, Like what then what?
What? So?
Then you get your d man, what are you gonna do with that?
I think a lot of modern people, especially when it's younger folks who are like cool, I'm gonna summon Baphame. I don't know, that they actually think that far ahead. I actually, here's my real thought is an awful lot of people who are trying to do that are really looking for incontrovertible proof that spirits either exist or don't, and so they shoot for the biggest, baddest, most extreme experience they can possibly think about. If that kicks their butts,
they have proof. Okay, I think it's really a dare to reality to prove itself or have nothing happen and make them then go home and feel better that there really aren't spooky things out there. Now, we want to go back to the ritual magic and ceremonial magic of Middle Ages and Renaissance. They were sum many demons mainly as tutelary spirits, as things to teach them and things to protect them and things. Oh man, there are so many demons that were supposedly summoned in order to get hookups.
It's really off the charts. How many spells and demons specifically from that time period, or about getting somebody to strip naked in front of you, or find it like like all the ladies in town to just irresistibly throw themselves at you. It is so much about just sexy times for like little aspiring insults.
Really, okay, so we'll staying on this topic. Yeah, When so somebody.
Opens the door, they bring in some kind of dark energy into a space that later ends up on Discovery Plus's portals to help.
Right, does so.
A demon or whatever word we want to use, a dark energy? Why would it then now linger in that space or does it sometimes get unleashed into the world, or does it attached to the people that open this door or what happens there.
Typically there are some beliefs that one of the reasons entities will try so hard to be called into the world is that they can't really come through on their own. Do they need to be invited in some way or another. That's a fairly deep part of folklore, and you know, it's worked its way into like our vampire myth that
like vampires must be invited inside. But that notion of invitation, or the inability to cross the boundaries themselves without assistance, that has some compelling details to me, that there are certain things that are so alien to our world or the way in which things work in it, that outside of really unique and extreme circumstances, they can't really manifest here I also think that there are plenty of spirits their native here, and a ritual like that, rather than
opening a door to let them in, creates a lot of energy, creates a lot of power to feed them, to strengthen them, to give them a little bit more oomph for manifesting and for being present. And again I think most spirits think with their stomachs in the sense that everything is energy and their energy, and they need to eat as much as we do. And again, they don't have ghostly McDonald's. They eat people. They eat the emotional residue of energy from traumatic events, from joyous events.
A lot of the stuff that we get on the shows, of course, are dark and negative, because those are the ones that stand out, like you're not going to port a haunting of a spirit that hangs around the merryground that makes everybody feel happy. Nobody cares. Actually, you're just you're just thrilled that this place makes you feel delighted every time you walk in it. That spirits still getting something out of it, but we don't find it inconvenient.
Yeah, I mean, I still I mean I would prefer a nice, happy spirit. But again, I understand why people want to see on TV. The dark, spooky, ooky, kooky stuff makes sense.
Yeah, I like the spooky stuff too.
You know, something I.
Really like in your book is the mention of different world religions and having understanding of various beliefs, and you actually go through different, you know, common religions, some less common religions that we might not have known much about, and go into their beliefs on you know, dark stuff and good stuff and and all of that, and and so how does that benefit a ghost hunter?
First of all, not every family you might be investigating will be Christian, not every location will have, you know, been Christian from start to finish. And there are a lot of different approaches to spirits, a lot of different types and perspectives. And what spirits are. A really good contrast is in Islam, most of what we would identify as from poltergeists to ghosts to fairies to most means our gin from their perspective genie, Yeah, genies, what we
identify as as demonic possession. Ninety nine percent of the times, I guarantee if it was a Muslim looking at that, that's just a gin that has taken possession of a person. Incubus succubists from their perspective gin and understanding what those perspectives are, if there really is a categorical difference, or if it's simply different words that we use. These help
us understand people's experiences better. You don't want to go into a Pagan household with a Catholic priest and have the Catholic priest run their ritual to remove things, because that doesn't speak to the pagan family at all, and vice versa. You wouldn't take a Pagan priest and have them make a Catholic family go through a whole like you know, casting the circle and you know, sword and chalice and all of that, because that's not going to
mean anything to them either. So having different perspectives gives us a wider arsenal, first of all, to combat things or to assess how to combat them, but also how to speak to the people who are having those experiences, because we all have different languages for what is out there beyond our physical world, and whether it's a ghost or Poulter guys to demon or a gin, a penan gallon, or something stranger, whether those are real or not is
more immaterial. If you are a good paranal investigator out to try to solve a haunting. For people, the most important thing is the people experiencing it believe it, So you need to know why and what they might be interpreting for that belief, and then how do you deal with it from your perspective you.
I mean, well, and I know you've been working on I believe last time you said you were working on a book about is It Past Live?
Yeah, so how's that going. I feel like I can't imagine how much research that could lead you on.
Oh, that one has, okay, So I can never work on one project once that one has spawned a workbook, a card deck, neither of which are in production yet. And I'm slowly chipping away at the past life stuff because it's so very personal. I've had memories since I was very tiny. I personally believe some of the things that I know. It's not like I haven't made a
point of also researching them this life. But in many cases it's stuff where I'm like, Okay, I know that the ancient Egyptians have had a water clock, and the central part of it was in the form of a bamboon pissing and it would take a pee once on the hour, every hour. That's the weirdest thing ever to know. Does that exist?
It sounds amass, right, but yes it does.
So the past life stuff is deeply personal, and trying to find the right the right way to kind of navigate that because I want it to be a workable book for everyone. I don't want to just be like going, well in my day, I remember blah blah blah, like I just don't want it to be an autobiographical recounting of like all of my ridiculous past life memories, because that just seems, well, that would probably be interesting. I don't know that it's all that useful beyond just fun stories.
Well I do like those too, but I get what you mean. I mean, do you think that.
Your psychic abilities have you know, gone with you in all of your past lives?
I definitely think that there are some things that I've carried with me over and over again, and trying to track that down was one of the first motivators when I was a teen to confirm some of the things that had come forth as probable past life memories, to try to just understand, like how much of us do we carry from lifetime? To lifetime. If this is a possible thing, like if this is part of your worldview and you accept that not only does the human soul
survive death but maybe also comes back. Does it get wiped clean? Is it normal for that to happen? Does it just get you know, kind of tossed in the unconscious bin of things that you're not really aware of, but you're carrying anyway, And you know, how normal is it to remember as much as someone does?
Yeah, well, some of my favorite stories are the ones of children that had these very specific memories, and it kind of brings into question all.
Of this stuff of how did that happen?
Did it was that supposed to get wiped clean and it's somehow leaked into this lifetime or why would that be?
I think it's telling that there's a certain age range in which children have these incredibly specific memories. A bit around children who've just been able to pull out names, who describe you know, people or circumstances or you know, buildings, things that they've never had had access to. You know,
there are two, three, maybe four. Knowing a little bit about theories of development and memory and the maturation of the human brain, there's a process that we go through as we grow into not just our bodies but also our neurology, where personally, I think it's not that the world us these memories. It's not like parents have necessarily told the kids, you know, that's not okay, or shamed
them into that, although that definitely happens. But I also think that as they individuate, as they get more grounded in this life and acclimate to the body and their geography and their family, those other memories that come forth with such clarity in their very formative years become less relevant because they are in the past. They're from a life that no longer has any anchor points or any context.
And I do think that people are more likely to remember things that are useful to them, things that might have a resonance in this life, things that maybe teach them something useful, something survivable here and now. Otherwise again it's just stories.
Yeah, God, that stuff is so fascinating to me. But you know, it's I guess that's kind of similar to the idea that kids can see ghosts, you know, as they're young, and then as they get older for whatever reason. There's a lot of theories that ability usually goes away.
Usually Yeah, Usually, I like the theory that some of the most powerful witches and magical practitioners are children simply because it never occurs to them as they can't.
Mmmm, right now, what about when we're dealing with children's spirits.
Does that ring true as well?
Spirits of children who died as children are kind of a separate and distinct category from spirits that appear as children. What a ghost human? When someone who is human dies, usually the first way that they present themselves is as they remember themselves. It's a little bit like their avatar and the matrix how they think they should look, and that's how they will project themselves to people. But as we learned in Tibetan Buddhist teachings, you're not stuck with that.
You have whatever appearance you're able to focus on and project whatever you are able to really relate to. So I've encountered spirits who died in their seventies, died in their eighties who noetheless appear as children because they choose to, or because that's where they have anchored, like that's the best place that they relate to as who they are, and they're not even necessarily limited to only appearing like that,
they may shift along their own personal timeline. It's taught me that appearance with spirits at least is also a method of communication. Ah, they are communicating something with how they appear and what they project to you, whether that communication is part of their personality or how they think they're going to best relate to you. But appearance is
not static for spirits. That said, children's spirits are I don't want to sound horrible about the closest to like what I experience with animal spirits, in the sense that they're very uncomplicated, even if something bad happened to them. If they're hanging around and their children who died early, they're there because they want to be. They're there because they're still having fun. Very rarely have I encountered genuinely
a human child spirit that I felt was trapped. It felt more like they wanted to engage and just hadn't gotten bored yet.
What about like if they just don't know that they're dead, Is that a thing?
Yeah, yes, sometimes that's a thing, And that does seem to be a little bit more common with children's spirits or not only do they not know, they just kind of don't care if they're engaged. They're happy to still run around doing what they're doing. There is some belief in various aspects of spiritualism and whatnot that when you cross over, when you die, you kind of go through this transformative process where you're opened up to the mysteries
of the universe. It's one of the core principles of medieval and Renaissance necromancy, of all things, even Greek and Roman necromancy. Crossing over meant that you had some hidden knowledge of the world, that you could prognosticate the future, that you could talk about where burying treasure was. That's never been my experience. Spirits are a little bit more psychic or telepathic. It's kind of the way that they communicate. They're a little bit more able to move around once
they figure that out. But it's not like they're all knowing, it's not like they're all seeing. So even a child spirit, they may change a little bit in their psychology and the emotional way that they interact with people, but only in their own time, only as they learn and grow. I really think that there's a journey for any soul once it's crossed over. We don't stop growing and changing.
We don't stop learning. And that process more than just sending something into the light, we're casting it out of space. That process is how they get over whatever they've been through and also move on to whatever comes next.
Yeah.
I usually end my episodes by rattling off just a bunch of paranormal phenomenas, and then my guess, you.
Say, oh, I believe in that, or I heard about this or about that, and I'm I feel like I might do it with you. It would be a whole different story.
But everything comes down. Everything I believe comes with a qualification and footnotes.
I love it though, So here I'll just list ofp a couple of things. Just tell me.
I guess it's almost like a word association kind of it there. I don't know what what comes to mind. Maybe you have a story or something you don't we don't.
We don't, I don't.
I won't make you tell me everything, but if you think it's something to share about these things?
Okay, what about haunted dolls?
Really cool? My wife hates them?
Have you ever owned one?
I own several and keeps them an inspiration house because see above, my wife hates them.
Are they about the house.
Yeah, there are two that have music boxes in them and they will play, and that's Clara and Nathan. And Clara is whatever's attached to Clara. I don't think it's a child. It is a bit cheeky and annoying, and she is actually the only thing that I've thought about buying in her own little space, because she knocks things around sometimes and disturbs guests. Most haunted dolls are more
what I would call residual hauntings. The energy, the love, the personality that someone has projected on them over a long period of time has sort of worked its way soaked into the doll itself, and what you're responding to is a psychic imprint. But every once in a while there's something that has gone, hey, this looks like a person just enough for me to want to be connected to it and use it as sort of an image and an anchor.
I mean is that it's not unlike what we were talking about with psychic vamporism and the obsessing spirits.
Right object, a doll, a poppet, human image, figurine, Like that's really old magic, making something in the shape of a person to be host to something thou shalt not worship false idols, The idea that you could make an idol of a god and the god would inhabit it, that all is of a piece. The idea that adult is a human image.
Oh yeah, I guess so.
Because Yeah, I mean, I hear about the different haunted objects, but it seems like the most common that at least I hear about.
Are they resemble humans?
I mean, I don't hear a lot about like, oh, this haunted bag of Dorito's that.
I don't know.
It's various things psychologically. Also, it's easy to project a lot on again, because they look like us. They have a face. Our brains are wired to expect a personality on the other side of that face.
What about Bigfoot? What do you think of that?
I grew up watching Bigfoot, Wild Boy and like the Foggy Creek Monster and all those like weird documentaries from the seventies. It would be really cool. I've never seen anything out in the woods myself. I'm fascinated by the concept.
Okay, but you're not ruling it out. It's possible.
Yeah, we'll rule it out.
Yeah, that's probably good. What about like Lockness Monster, same thing.
I'm a little bit less likely to believe in the Lockness Monster, but it's a nice story and certainly a good excuse to go to Scotland. Right.
How about UFOs?
You Those are one of the things that actually just concerts me on a pretty deep level. I had an uncle who was in the Air Force in Vietnam. He had a really high security clearance and he had something to do with Project Blue Book.
Wow.
Yeah, one hundred percent believed in UFOs. We went UFO watching, he and I and I definitely saw a couple of weird things while I was with him. I, on like a deep, fundamental personal level, cannot bring myself to believe in the idea of a physical craft with actual physical beings, like in the same way that some people hear ghosts
and they're just like nah. I have some deep, like just something in me resists that if that were to actually like land in my backyard and there were aliens of any shape size of the description that physically walked out, I am not sure what I would do, because there's my reality would be like huh, not that I think there's no other intelligent life in the universe. It's more than I'm like, but why would they bother to be here. Really.
That said, I don't have a problem thinking about things that could move here or travel here, transd interdimensionally through some way that isn't strictly physical. I guess it really comes down to the fact that I don't know that I trust a physical craft to be able to travel in a way. It's really hard for me to wrap my head around.
What about time travel?
That gets weird and loopy. I'm not sure. I like to think of time again. Part of my personal worldview is pretty linear, but I've also met some people who seem to experience it in a really weird way. Not going to rule it out, but it comes with so many qualifications and questions for me.
Yeah, well, okay, here's one more. And this could be a lot. You know, there's a lot of things. I mean, any of these topics, there's a lot. But I was thinking about this. I was reading your book The Idea of Curses.
I think that unfortunately they're used way too often to scam people into paying a lot of money to get the curse lifted that isn't actually there. But you know, is it possible to do something to someone someone magically, to bind them to I can see circumstances where something would fit the necessary uh qualities to be called a curse.
Yeah, because like sometimes.
I've talked about like movies that are cursed, you know, allegedly or you know there's and then you can also get into conspiracy theories and stuff like that. And the Kennedy family has a curse on them, and that's sort of a thing.
I mean, do you think that that's possible.
I don't know. See I suddenly like the long pause with me going back and digging through some of the Irish folklore that I inherited from my family. They're definitely in Irish family our ideas that you can have like a banshee or spirit or a family curse, and that curse gets passed on because one of your ancestors broke a taboo or made a promise that they didn't carry out.
From a metaphysical and ethical standpoint, I just have a hard time thinking that reality would be that cruel that you now could be cursed for some something that one of your ancestors five generations ago did. At the same time, it makes me wonder about, honestly more a little bit about magical lineages or reincarnational stuff that we may carry forward, that we might be carrying because of something we did in the past and interpret it now as a curse because we don't have a better word for it.
Oh okay, Yeah, it's kind of similar to past life stuff and all of that.
Hmm. Well, Michelle, you've been so generous with your time.
It's always good talking to you.
It's like, my brain is so like I'm thinking about so many things, and that's what I love.
I love it. This is great.
I guess I guess we should wrap it up. But you know, can you tell people what you're working on and where they can find you in all that stuff?
Oh, let's see. Everything that you probably want to find is at my website at Michelle Belange dot com. If you want to learn from my classes, pick my brain and my discord and do other things like that, the best way to do that is to join my Patreon at patreon dot com slash Haunted. That's pretty much where I have this awesome community and we do weekly chats and there's a ridiculous amount of recorded classes for people
to poke through. So if you want to hear me talk about everything from Wiji boards to fairies to how to do in depth energy work. That's the place to go. There is my haunted Airbnb inspiration house and you can rend that on Airbnb and if you want to catch a little taste about it, the World's most Amazing vacation rentals on Netflix their Paranormal Places episode. It's the first one that they go to and you get to see me and a Wiji board session. Woo. Let's see what
else I'm on sort of media. Oh yeah, Portals to Hell and lots of books, a stupid amount of books. And currently, on top of everything else, I'm working on a couple of games, so we'll see see what happens with that. I'm an old school gamer D and D and various tabletop role playing games. I wrote material for Onyx Paths ghost Hunters supplement for the World of Darkness if you are a player of vamp by the Masquerade
that's coming out fairly soon. They wanted somebody who actually does it for a living to write some bits for the game, and I'd been writing games and running them from like forever ago. As a note, it was definitely gen Con and Origins is in Columbus, and that's only going to make any sense to other gamers.
Well, it's always it's so fun to hear about people, you know, a psychic, somebody that's very do you call yourself an expert or you know, in a cult, in the cult de knowledges, all these things that all these titles that you have, and then to hear about the very human things you know that you like as well, like playing games.
I love that.
Oh yeah, hardcore gamer keeek, I love it.
Well, Michelle, you gave us the goods once again, and I love it. And I hope that you come back sometime, you know, if you got another book, next time you have a book coming out or anything, please come back.
Conversations are always good. Thank you.
Thank you to Michelle Balane. Get to her website, buy her books. She is just the greatest. I'm so happy to get to know her, and hopefully one day I'll meet her in person and hope to have her back again some other time, because wow, has she taken us to school and taught as things and she makes me feel better about this spooky stuff, to be honest. So if you wanna hear a little bit more as we talk about the dibbook, go to Patreon dot com slash roz dress plus my second tier and on my first tier.
This week you can watch me and my friend Sam driving in the car talking about Halloween.
Guys for my birthday.
Please tell your friends about the show and also rate it five stars on Apple Podcasts or where you rate a podcast five stars. My Patreon is patroon dot com slash Rosdressfales. I am on Instagram at Roz Hernandez. We have the Facebook group Ghosted.
By rozdres Fales.
And also I'd like to do a listener episode soon, so please send your listener stories to ghosted by Roz at gmail dot com with the subject line listener episode and just put a little bit the bullet points of what your stories look like. And next week you're gonna get to hear and if you'd like, see me as well, So be subscribe to the show and look out for that.
I love you all, both living and dead. But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me. Came back Star means there a podcast network