What's that at the bed? It's spooky, I'm jooky. I'm pretty sure it's dead. It's coming, it's way Wait a minute, Hey, I'm gostad.
Hyras dress.
Please, hey boo, it's me raz I got to talk again to my friend Katrina Widman. It is her fourth appearance on the show. She of course hosts the TV show Portals to Hell with Jack Osborne. The new season is going to be premiering this weekend, the ninth of April, and she's gonna tell us all about that in this two parter conversation. But you also might know her from Paranormal Stay. She was also on Paranormal Lockdown. I mean, she's a star in the paranormal TV world and she
always has great insight from all of her experiences. So we'll get to that in a moment. But first, I haven't read a story in a while. I apologize. I mean, I love reading stories. Send me more. I want mare, Just give me more and then I'll read more. I don't know. So this one was put in the Facebook group which is called ghosted by rosdres False and it comes from Noel and it's one of my favorite kinds
of stories. This is. This is that kind of thing where I've talked about like could ghost be re enactors or cos players or the real thing? Like it's it's just I don't know. It's a it's a fun thing to ponder and sort of that kind of story. So here we go, Here we go, Here we go, Noel says. My hobby and I toured the battleship USS North Carolina back when our daughter was a freshman at UNCW. The battleship was decommissioned in nineteen forty seven, so pretty much
it's imperfect World War II condition. We both love history and engineering, so we were like kids in a candy store. We were having a blast, especially since it was a living history interpreter's day. I believe that's like reenactor people. Okay, part way through, we were alone in the machine shop when my hobby yells, hey, check this guy out and rushes to the passageway. He leans out over a barrier, then turns around, pale and wide eyed. I immediately said,
you saw something. He started pacing and just said, give me a minute. My skull feels too small and my skin feels too tight. Later he would say that it felt like his body was trying to implode, and the feeling lasted for almost the rest of the tour. He also said he wasn't going to tell me what he saw until we finished, because he felt sure he would
find out it wasn't anything out of the ordinary. What he saw was a young man, maybe nineteen, blonde, helmet on, long sleeve, green shirt, something like a backpack or vest, wide utility belt, and green pants tucked into boots. All his clothes were pristine and pressed. He walked with purpose down the passageway by the open door, turned and looked
at my hobby, then walked on. He had been excited when he'd seen him, because his outfit was so much more detailed and well done compared to the other interpreters. But that doorway was roped off with a swinging sign, and when he leaned out, he was gone, damn, she's like, this guy's outfit was better than those people that were trying it. My husband did not want to believe it was anything. For one thing, he was completely solid, just
like anyone else. Also, there were a dozen or so dressed interpreters there, and the passageway was part of our tour. You just had to go another way to get there, but we never saw him again, and that all the hair on your body standing on end, the skin too tight, headache feeling it persisted. Also, none of the interpreters wore green. They all either had dark blue jeans and Chumbrai shirts
or officer hackies. No navy personnel wore green. There had been a marine detachment on the ship during the war,
but we only saw Navy interpreters. We also asked the man who's been the ship's caretaker for thirty five years and another staff member if there were any interpreters that fit that description, and they both said no. They all were members of a group that worked together to do these days often, so if there had been someone dressed as a member of the marine detachment and dressed as much more detailed and different than everyone else than both
people would have known exactly who we were talking about, and we should have seen him again at the station as part of the tour. My husband said the rest of the afternoon evening, trying to convince himself that he didn't see anything. He was almost embarrassed that he'd seen it. He didn't want to be that guy, but honestly, being that person runs in his mom's family. Okay, all right, Okay, there's a lot here, so let me just paraphrase a bit. So Noelle knew that they were on ghost hunters this
ship at one point. Finally, on the way home from the college soccer game later that night, I googled ghosts on the USS North Carolina. I expected it to add more doubts, but I had to pull myself together before I could read it to my husband. Quote people often report a young blonde man in the passageways. So the more I think about it, if I want to believe it was anything, I think it was a time slip. The person he saw was definitely a marine, and as far as we know, no marines died on board, and
he was solid, not ghost like. I think. Somehow, for a few seconds, the past and present were happening at the same time, and somewhere in nineteen forty something, they're laughing at a marine that said that he swore he saw a baseball player in shorts in the machine shop because her husband had on a baseball cap. I mean, yeah,
that's possible. You hear these stories sometimes, I guess I don't often think like Okay, so if someone looks solid, then maybe that's like a time slip thing as opposed to I mean, who knows why sometimes they look glowing and see through and sometimes they look solid. But that, hey, that could actually actually be a great explanation for that.
Maybe that is different because it's a it's like a swap, you know, like, Okay, well we'll let you have a person from the nineteen forties and we'll give you a person from the present. Like it's you're like both, you know what I mean, I don't know. Sure, Wait a minute. So since Katrina does a show called Portals to Hell and they deal with a lot of this darkness and conversations of demons and that kind of thing, what if
just go along with me. What if demons are what people will look like in the future, that's what we evolve into. What if so when you see a demon, it's really just a person from the year three thousand, and you just think it's a demon. I don't know.
Maybe I hope you understand, guys, that A lot of times when I'm theorizing like this, this is just you're just literally listening to one person just trying to think of ideas and explanations and I enjoy doing that, so never take any of this stuff as definitive or facts. I feel like sometimes I start thinking like this and then people are like, wait a minute, now, that's not the case. And then they send me messages and I'm like, Okay, I don't know. I don't know anything. God, God, I
know as much as you guys here. Because the most of the time I have these conversations with people, it's recorded, so it's just one person's journey to get in all the answers, which I'll never get anyway. Here's somebody that's done some leg work, Katrina Wideman, out there in the field. We're gonna talk to Katrina just a moment, of course. I gotta tell you. Go to my Patreon, Patreon, dot com slash raz dress Fales. I have my full length podcast that I've been doing on there. As I learn more,
I got into fairies and trolls. I looked more into that. I looked into alien abductions last week and this week. Every Thursday, at some point during the day, I don't know, maybe later on and Thursday, I'm not sure. Sometime before Friday, my time. I put up a full length episode of that on my second tier Patreon dot com, slash Raws, dress Fales. Thank you for your support. All right from Portals to Hell. Here is Katrina Wideman on with the show. You guys. I am joined by our first ever four
time guest, Katrina Wideman. Hello, Hello, how are you welcome back?
I think you know, I feel really honored to be the first fourtimer.
Yeah, there's a jacket we'll send you in the mail. There's a jacket that you get to wear. It's like Saturday Night Live. We have a lounge that leve and go to. I well, the funny thing or the I mean kind of. One of the reasons why you've been on so much is because you're the first paranormal investigator that was ever on my show. You were on like very early in my show, and I had never had anybody from a paranormal TV show.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, you were the first one, and you always bring us the goods. And I think when you came on was probably when the first season of Portals to Hell had just recently come out, and now you're in your third season.
Yes, yeah, that comes out April ninth, or when when.
Will this have their right before April ninth.
Okay, perfect, Yeah, so that comes out.
Season three, Portals of Hell comes out April ninth, So thirteen different locations, which means thirteen episodes. And we had such a dedicated scene this year. I mean not that we did it before, but we had producers that were so so so excited about, like, you know, trying to find us different locations. And one of our producers, he's just really into the supernatural, so he like went above and beyond to find us just really different, unique locations.
A lot of them have never been on television before, and a lot of them I hadn't even heard of before. So they were very like, you know, gems for sure that we have the opportunity to go into.
Have you ever counted how many places you have investigated?
Oh?
My god, definitely under over Sorry, definitely over one hundred.
I mean on TV alone, you've done so many different shows.
Yeah, so TV alone, I would have to say it's over one hundred. And then you take into account the events and lectures I've done, appearances, and then things I've done privately, you know, away from the cameras gets up there.
I always wonder with paranormal shows, like I feel that there's probably a lot of Okay, we want to get a place that nobody has ever seen before. But I also do think that the classics, like people want to see you know again, or they want to see a different team than they ever seen going in there, or you know, I see the benefit to both, but how do you feel about that?
So there's definitely that conversation that happens. As far as the media side goes, there's you know, I think shows or networks they want to be the first ones in someplace, but you run into the challenge where you know, these shows have been popular for going on twenty over twenty years at this point, you know, so it's like there's not like, you know, where we're not gonna It's like
finding a needle in the haystack at this point. And sometimes what happens is like, for example, when I was working for a show where I was only the location, you know, I only worked in locations, one of the challenges we came up across was, you know, we wanted big locations, but so many of them were government owned or had some sort of tie to government entities, And there's a lot of rent tape when you're working with that and so many of them because they are associated
with the government. They don't want this sigma, you know. So that's something that can happen. Another thing that can happen is developers are buying these properties and they either want to tear them down or they want to repurpose them, and they don't want the association, you know, so you run into like there's a lot of weird things. It's not just as easy as like like, hey, there's a haunted place in that town, let's go there, you know.
So it's it's the magic of really wonderful producers who make that stuff happen.
Yeah, I mean the government is now ruining paranormal shows too. Another thing is like, like when I book this podcast, one of the reasons why I always like to have on like celebrities or people that are public speakers is because I already know that they can like be on a podcast and perform and be natural and whatever. And I imagine that it's like, well, these new locations, we don't know how the ghosts are on TV. They might
you know, they might not be performers. They might clam up, they might Yeah, and I don't know what to do some of these some of these places that have been on everything. You go to the Queen Mary, those ghosts are like, all right, lights, camera action, We've done this so many times. Here we go.
Yeah, and that's that is a conversation that happens too. But that's that's a conversation that happens really for every location because we don't know what's going to happen. And you know, I think as investigators, it's one of those things that like we know that because we're investigators. I think where it gets tricky is if you have a producer who hasn't done these shows before, they get like nervous about.
Well, what nothing's going to happen.
So that's where you have to like if you work on that side or in that part of the paranormal, you have to really be careful about not be careful, but I guess just make sure that the right team is.
In place, because you know, it takes it really.
Is a special talent of somebody who's like, hey, I'm okay not knowing what's going to happen because I'm such a strong producer that I'm going to make a great show regardless, you know.
Like, and the thing is, I never really think that.
A great show is about the evidence, because evidence you can't I don't really think you can hang a show on that. And there shows that try, and there shows that have done it, but it's so unpredictable, and you know, I just I think it's smarter to hang a show on story and character, you know, as with any.
Type of media, that's what draws us in right well.
And just the locations alone, getting getting access, getting to see some of these places that you don't usually get to do. That's always like my favorite part. I always love that.
Yeah, yeah, same.
And we were just doing an interview the other day and the interviewer.
Eating on me. Okay, cool, it was.
Just a little bit.
It was it's just my body, it's just my voice.
But the interviewer asked, what's the question? Oh? What was like? What draws in viewers? What seems to be the common thread?
And I think one of the things is the history. You know, if you dive into the paranormal genre or the field, you'll find so many people are preservationists or historians or they have a love of that if they're not working in it.
So I think it definitely is part of the draw.
Yeah, definitely well, and of course the people on camera I think is really important too. There's some people, Yeah, you know, it's like if I don't know, you can't have like a boring person looking for ghost It doesn't matter if a ghost like picks them up or not. It's like, I don't really want to watch the forty five minutes until you get to that part, you know.
Yeah, yeah, it's a different I mean, I guess it's it's just connecting in a different way, right. So, and you know this too because you come from like a theatrical background.
That if you have you know, I was explaining this, who was I explaining this to oh, my friend Tim who he had asked me if my theater background helped it all in hunting ghosts, and I'm like, I don't know if it helps in hunting ghosts, but it definitely helps like working in this.
Part of media, because it's if you have good.
Acting teachers they teach you it's you know, all acting is is about connection and like getting to not only connecting to yourself, but connecting to the audience, connecting to your partners that you're working with. And so I think it's the same thing with reality shows, it's just about connection.
And listening and being grounded and all of that stuff. Yeah, I could see that.
Yeah.
Yeah, Well, so this season having shot at already, do you have any new theories or thoughts on any anything in terms of activity that can happen.
I don't know.
For for the last couple of years, I've really leaned on the side of we don't have the right terms and definitions for things. Like, I know, strange things happen. I know that, and I know there's no explanation for a lot of those things at this point. But that doesn't mean like as somebody like, for example, I've been scratched before. Now a lot of people would consider that to be a demonic activity. I don't necessarily believe that, you know. I just think it's something that happened that
I don't know how to explain right now. If I put on the filters of a certain religion or a certain culture, yeah you would call it something like that, But doesn't mean that it's negative. Not necessarily. We just don't know, you know. So we're putting our own spin on things. And I mean not that there's anything wrong with that. I think that's kind of how you start
to get to the answers. You analyze every angle of it, right, But I think more than anything, the longer I am in the field, it's one of those things where definitely the more questions I have, and.
Just you know, I'm just leaning more and more and more.
Towards that thing of like, yeah, we don't I just really don't think we have the right label and definitions, because how can we when we really don't know how to prove this yet?
Right?
You know?
Yeah, I mean so much of it is like we can we can theorize, we can say maybe it's this, maybe it's that, and of course, as humans, we all want the answers.
Yes, yeah, I don't know.
I'm sure there's a lot of ghosts with like gorgeous long manicures that are like, I'm not a demon. I just got an acrylic set and then I died. Stop calling me a demon.
I'm gonna I'm gonna propose that the next time that happens to some on the show, I'm like, guys, it's not a demon.
This is what it is.
Totally. Well, okay, so can we talk about the places you went this season?
Yes? Oh, my gosh, amazing places This season.
Okay, So first up is that Hillview Manor. Uh huh okay to talk about this place.
So Hillview Manor, it's out near Pittsburgh. It's like an hour north of Pittsburgh. And it's an old manner that I mean they used it for uh like retirement living, that kind of thing. And the owner she bought it, I think she originally she and her brother bought it and they were going to turn it into I think housing was their initial plan. And then they realized that, wait a minute, there's some stuff going on here, and
we don't know what to do with this. Because she was never into this kind of thing, and I guess when words started getting out that it was, you know, active, she took on a resident group to kind of help her figure out what was happening. And I from what I remember, they were the group that's there now has been the same group the whole time.
And so Jack and I went.
There's four floors in the middle, and then there's two wings, which I think are just two floors, and they have a lot of activity, a lot of it's the nine and you know, seemingly happy. And then there's this other activity in this one area of the building that seems to be more aggressive, more negative. So of course Jack and I spent a lot of time there, and it's weird.
Because we were having these really.
Aggressive type of noises happen in that one specific area of the building, like very very loud bangs, very very loud knocks, and they seem to happen on command. And so, you know, I think skeptically you can look at it and be like, well, it's an old building, like whatever.
You know, you guys are full of it.
But what's interesting about it is those things were only happening when we were asked for them, like to the point where we even left a voice activated recorder overnight and nothing was happening.
You know, you could hear the trucks come by, you could hear like.
Just you could hear noises, but you could understand what those noises were.
When we were doing the investigation. They were coming out of nowhere.
It seemed, at least, and when we check with the resident ghost hunting group, you know, you know, when we found them to be very forthcoming.
So when we were like, hey, we had this happen, what is it?
And they would be like, oh, that's just that don't worry about that's totally natural, you know. But when we were talking about our time in this one specific area, they were like, we've had the same things. We've investigated it, we've looked for answers, we can't figure it out. So you know, you kind of look at that overall objectively and it's like, well, gosh, you know, maybe there is something to that.
Mm.
Yeah. I think that that's like like spirit boxes. Sometimes I have like a hard time with spirit boxes, and I feel like when when you're speaking to them and then it sounds like they're replying exactly in a way that they could to the question that you asked. Like that to me, is what makes there be something to it as opposed to just like, oh, I have the spearbox out and it just said this, and it just said that, and it just said that, like you know what I mean. Like, it's the same kind of thing
with with knocking. If it if it seems like a communication, it seems like a conversation is happening here, as opposed to just sounds.
Yeah, exactly.
And I think that's the majority of an investigation is And especially with me and Jack, we say that all the time. We're not to make you believe in ghosts. We're not out to disprove them either, Like we're just there to document what people are talking about and saying that, you know, hey, I had this experience. It's like cool, can we go in and document that and then try to figure out what it is. And so as an investigator,
you look for patterns, you know. So so for example, if there's an eye witness that comes forward and four months ago, they're like, hey, I saw a guy walk down this hallway, this is what he looked like.
He had a tap pat.
And then we find out, you know, through our research, we find there was an eyewitness ten years ago who had the same experience in the same area of the building. You know that that becomes really interesting. And that's one of the patterns we look for is shared experiences between people that don't know each other, between different lights of time. That becomes a really interesting phenomena.
I feel like that's the best, Like, yeah, wow, it's so cruc people that don't know each other's experience the same thing at different times.
Oh yeah, we actually had because years ago on Paranormal State there was red Boiling Springs, Tennessee. The Thomas House. But Jack and I also went to for season two.
Great place.
I love the people there, and just through our research and we found out that there was someone who believed that they had an imaginary friend when they were little at the Thomas House named Sarah. Well, it turns out Sarah was a ghost that people had been seeing for years, I mean decades, and she didn't know about it. As a kid, they didn't I don't even think her mom knew about her. Mom was like, I think her mom
worked there as like a cleaner or something. And so we tracked down this woman and we told her like on camera, like well, like tell us about your mentionary friend.
And she told us about her, and then we were like, well, do.
You know that people have been claiming to see her for like decades? And she I mean just her Reactually ever go back and watch that episode. It's amazing because she's like what and you know, but it's interesting because again, she was just a kid.
She didn't know you know, oh my god.
Yeah, Sarah has other our friends too, just so you know, Okay, what about so this season, you guys go to asylums. I never know the word asylums, psychiatric hospital facilities. Yeah, so how many of those did you guys do this year?
Oh?
A couple of them.
I'm trying to remember.
They all smushed together for me after a while, they do like I need like the list in front of me.
Remember, I found a list here online. Ellowise Psychiatric hospital.
Okay, yes, so one Okay, I think it was just one that we went to of like mental health facilities.
We did a restaurant.
We did a couple of theaters. I know, right, me too, Jack and I found lots of costumes stress.
Up in Oh my god, kind of theaters.
So one was an actual theater down in Savannah, savannahs Theater right downtown.
It was so cool.
And then we went to actually a magician's theater in Hot Springs, Arkansas, which was amazing. It was like an old movie house type of theater and he turned it into his place where he performs, and he's just he is a character. He's so nice, but he's he's very like exactly what you think the magician would be, you know, and just really cool old Art Deco type building.
Yeah, I'm looking at it. The Malco Theater place. Yeah, Malco so cool. Wait, so they did like magic shows there.
Oh yeah, yeah, he and his ex wife were like partners in a magic show.
Is there. Do you think that there's like, now, this could be a stretch, But sometimes I think actually I think about magic a lot because you know, especially a long time ago, I think people just assume magicians have some kind of paranormal ability, and you know, Hoodini was into the seances, and it's like there is this weird It's like we know that it's not real, but like
maybe it could be. Like I don't know, it's like a lot, it's it's a fun thing because it it kind of in some ways goes along with the paranormal I think. But do you think that there's any like if a space, if someone's doing a bunch of magic in a space, do you think that there could be that could do something for paranormal activity?
Yeah, I mean I guess it depends on what type of magic they're doing, you know. So I mean if it's just sort of like sleight of hand stuff, I don't know, but you know, you get into things where they're putting on acts where they're like actually you can see this, and haunted houses too, where they're like pretending to call in something as part of their act, you know, and then you can see it seems like there's a pattern of once they do that an extended period of time, things happen after that.
So I could see something like that. I tend not.
To say that there's any absolutes though, just because we don't really know, So I'm not closed off to the idea at all that, you know, maybe maybe that does something. Or you have to take into consideration too, the energy that people bring to the show, Like maybe there's just something to do with going to some sort of theatrical performance where there's that much energy between people, you know, does that do anything?
Yeah? You know, like what about a room full of people that believe that this stuff is real? Like does that could that contribute to something being real? I don't know. Is this is a stretch. I'm just like thinking out loud. But last time you were on, we were talking about haunted theaters and we were talking about how there's always a woman in white? Was there were there any women in white actresses?
Oh? Yeah, I think at both of them. Definitely Savannah.
There's the story of someone on the stage that people will see and she'll come out and perform.
And I think.
I'm trying to remember there is someone on the stage at Malco, but I don't know that it's the woman in white. I don't believe we really heard that. It was more male figures that seem to hang out in the house. But yeah, it's a funny phenomena, isn't it because people have seen this. I saw something. There was a theater we did. Where was it Ohio? I think it was Ohio, Jack and I and the name is escaping me, but it's an old opera house and I saw something like on the stage for like a second
to the point where like I question it. I'm like, did I really see that? But you know it's I'm like, I know I saw something. But that one was a funny one. So I think that was season A, season one. That might have been season one for me and Jack, And it's funny. I don't think they kept it in the episode, but we uh we called in the old owner and he's this like real eccentric guy, really cool guy who was into theater.
He was like a theater.
Major, loved performing, loves antiques, so he would just like collect all these.
Antiques and then he became like the mayor of.
The town, like just like, you know, just a really amazing, sweet person. And when we were questioning him, we're like, you know, can you think of anything that might have.
Set this off? Like why is this place so honted. He's like yeah, I don't, I don't know.
And then he's like, well, you know, we're like what He's like nah, or like no, no, tell us, like we've heard everything, you know, you don't have to feel weird about saying anything in front of us.
He's like, well, they had.
The building next door was the police department, and they needed to make more room, so they dug underneath, so there was the basement.
They needed more space.
So they dug even further right, and when they did that, they found this old sarcophicus, like un honest to god sarcophagus like four feet underground.
Oh my god.
Okay, and now listen to that.
So Jack and I we were like you found you what, like you've in like the middle of Ohio you find this ancient sarcophagus buried underground.
He's like yeah.
He's like, you know, we didn't want them to stop, like because anytime you find something like that, you you probably should call the police. They were the police, so I mean, you know, whatever, but they didn't want to stop construction because they were on a tight deadline.
So we were like, well, what did you do?
And he's like, wow, it was really and we couldn't get it out, so we smashed it to pieces and.
Took it out that way, and.
Like in my head it was swirling like paranormal one oh one things not to do. Yeah, device like you know, and he's like, but I don't know why I thought it. I'm like, oh, maybe the ancient sarcophagus that you guys, you know, smashed to pieces.
I don't know.
So was there activity before they smashed the SARCOPHA gives.
I don't know.
I think that's what because he came in around that time. It seems like everything for him happened around the same time. But when he he actually lived in the theater and he turned the stage into an apartment and he showed us pictures and it was like amazing, and so I think it was after he lived there that.
He became the mayor. But uh, you know, I think so.
I think there was activity that predated that. But the story we got when we went is that something had shifted to be more negative.
I'm ignorant of this sarcophagus. I always hear that, like first of all, favorite word ever. I think I just decided sarcophagus. I always hear that, like in ancient Egypt and stuff. But like, what, what exactly is a sarcophagus?
I think it's just it's an ancient light casket. Uh, this one.
It was made out of stone though, and like formed to the body from what I understand.
WHOA yeah, And.
When they did open it up, what he told us was they opened it up and there was nothing in there.
There was the body got out, I guess.
I guess, so it's crawled the way out.
I don't know that body. Maybe it was always empty. I just think it's weird that there was no remnants of like anything. But maybe it's not weird.
I don't know.
It's Ohio and they were in a they were in a floodstone anyway, So you know, it's possible that whatever was in there just didn't didn't survive and got you know, is integrated over time.
Is it possible it was an old set piece from Joseph in the Amazing Technicolor Dream Code or something that just happened to be down there.
Right as a cast Frank or like, let's bury it and years later someone will find it and it'll be hilarious.
Oh my god. Okay, wait, I'm curious about these places that you guys went this year that have never been seen. What was that?
Yes?
Ooh, Probably my favorite was Ernestine in Hazel's, which is in Memphis, Tennessee. And I love me some Memphis. I love Memphis.
It is a great city.
And I'm from Philly, so it has like a similar vibe of just you know, it's just like, I don't know how to describe it, it's just the vibe. And so Ernestine in Hazel's is a restaurant now, but it used to be originally Ernestine and Hazel they were hairdressers and they used to do the hair upstairs, and there was like a club underneath it, and it was the hangout, like the hangout spot in Memphis for all the musicians. So all the big acts that came through Memphis would
go there afterwards. And oh gosh, like twenties.
Thirties, forties, fifties.
Yeah, So what's cool too, is they they were also like an establishment for African Americans because you know, especially during that time period, there wasn't a whole lot of acceptance, as we all know, so it really became a hot spot for that. So like Ray Charles would hang out there, Aretha Franklin.
Who else?
Well, Elvis used to eat across the street because the diner that he went for his famous sandwiches there.
Oh wow, and peanut butter.
Oh it was like peanut butter. And then yeah.
I think I'm getting it confused because I do have a relative that every single day eats a peanut butter and mayonnaise sandwich, which makes me what one of I should I should have said trigger warning one of the grossest things I've ever heard.
Sorry, how do you even get into that? Like, what's that moment in your life where you're like, you know what, what.
If I'm going to try this.
Really good with this MAYONNAISEA that's.
So creepy to me?
Okay about well, Ernestine and Hazel, So what's funny is they have a jukebox there that they think is haunted, and the story goes that the jukebox will play music that will be related to your conversation. So right, so, for example, if I'm talking about I don't know, say hey, my name's Katrina, and then Katrina and the waves comes on.
Cool, you know, right, is it?
So yeah? So right, So that's something that we were thinking.
We're like, do they have it like secretly rigged with like a bluetooth and.
Blah blah blah blah blah.
But it's been happening for decades like things that pre date that technology, you know, and apparently the Establishment is really really well known for it. Also it is their second jukebox, so the previous one did it as well.
Wow, and you.
Know, like obviously you know, we're like, we're we're investigators. We're like, well, we're going to figure it out, like we're there's got to be an answer for this. And but when we were there, honest to god, it did it so many times, so many times really, so it started, yeah, to the point where we had to plug it because we can't. I mean, you know, working in television you have to any kind of music, you have to get license, right,
and sometimes it's really really expensive. And so, uh, it was happening so much that we were worried about the legalities, but also like we were interviewing people and would keep going on off, So like we were also like on you know, a timeline, and we're like, well, crap, we can't keep stopping down every single time a song comes on.
So eventually we just had to unplug it.
But do you do you have to put money in to get it to play? How does it just play?
No?
It was doing it, so, yes you do. If you do want a song to come on, you have to put money in. You was just doing it about it, I know, but not when it was going off by itself. It didn't have money in it, like nobody put anything in.
Yeah, it would just go off, these ghosts getting their freebies.
Yeah.
Well, and that's what's interesting because I think a lot of people would assume a haunted jukebox. They wouldn't, but since there's been two of them, it's it seems more like a ghost or a ghost that like a jukebox, you know what I mean. Yeah, sometimes you hear about haunted objects. Is it the actual object itself or is is there a spirit of it that's controlling it?
Or right?
Well, no, there is. At the Magic Castle in Hollywood, there's the piano that can play any song or whatever on its own. But that I is like a magic trick. I don't know how they do it, but yeah, it's like the same kind of idea. So this place was known to be haunted, but nobody had ever been in there. I mean, what took them so long?
Well for Ernestine and Hazels. Yeah, yeah, so they've had I guess they've had.
Some kind of investigation. Oh, they have had investigations there, just not on television. So there were local investigators that we ended up talking to, and they have gone in a few times, but it's just they've never done it for TV.
So and I don't know why.
I think it's kind of off the beaten path, like you don't know about it unless you're from the area.
You know, not that they.
Hide the fact that they have things happen, it's just not you know. I think a lot of times we hear about like the big crazy like prisons and hospitals and things like that, and those kind of take those kind of like overshadow the smaller place.
Though, sometimes I think.
Is there Do they have any theory for why it's haunted?
I think it's just the history.
You know, there's so many people that came through there, and it was also they did use it as a bordello, you know. So a lot of the musicians that were coming through town, Ernestine and Hazel's was a good time for everything.
You can get every haircut, you can get a drink, you can get food, you could get something else.
You can get drugs, you could get you get a lady.
Oh my god. Yep.
So it was it was the place to be back then because you could get any It was like a little miniature vegas Us.
That a big place.
No, it's not that big.
I mean it's big as far it's a building in a city, you know.
So it's like, you know, one of those.
Buildings where it just goes up and down. But it's it's big for what you would think of something like that, but it's not big in comparison to like a prison or a hospital.
Well you've been to that Bobby Mackie's place. Oh yeah, that place to me feels like.
Darkness, Yeah, Bobby. Bobby Mackie's is a strange location. Been there twice. I never had anything really negative happen while I was there. Just the only thing that's strange that always sticks out to me is I think I told you.
That thing that happened.
Both Jack and I ended up in the emergency room, like on the same day. It was like three days after we filmed that episode. We're both in the er, and we both had psychics who don't necessarily know us very well reach out out to us on that day, being like, Hey, I don't know what you're doing, but something followed you home and it's dark.
Yeah, nothing negative happens there. What are you talking about?
Yeah, yeah, so it was. It was very strange.
Has anything followed you home this season?
No, I don't think so. Things have been relatively quiet.
We moved though, too, so I think, like, my new place has really good energy in it.
Did you ask if it was haunted?
He didn't, No, but I didn't get the vibe. It just felt really really good, you know good.
Yeah, what's the what's the other places that you went to that nobody's ever been. I was reading about a museum that you guys went to.
Oh, the Truss Tailor Museum that's up in Plymouth, Massachusetts. And it's literally like a block away from Plymouth Rock, Like literally the rock is there, and then you're like, I don't know, you're not even a full block. It's right there and that's never been on television, but long standing history of being haunted.
And actually it's funny.
Because that one producer I was talking that one producer I was talking about he's lived like everywhere every place we went. He's like, yeah, I lived here, I lived here, So he knew of all these hidden gems that had never really been on television. Yeah, so this one also came from him. And there's actually two houses that are part of the museum, and both of them have activity.
One is a little lighter, one seems to be a little more negative, but they have things people have cleaned that televisions have flown off the wall or off of you know whatever they're sitting on, and smashed doors closing and opening with no explanation, voices, but steps, things moving. While we were there, I think one of the stranger things that happened our director of photography, Addison Miller.
You'll see him sometimes in the background.
The really really sweet guy, and he was sitting on this I don't know what it was like some sort of like lower table, not necessarily a coffee table, but it was like lower and it was what's the name for it.
It was like ten top.
Kind of I'm not explaining it really well, like where it's hollow, so like if you knock on it, it'll it'll make a noise, you know, it'll bang, kind of like aluminum.
I guess it would be anyway.
So he's sitting on that with his camera, which those cameras are really really heavy, and Addison is also a grown man, you know what I mean. So he's sitting on it with his camera and all of a sudden, the thing starts to like vibrate like somebody had just like hit it really really hard, and he felt He's like, what is happening? And like he gets up. We test it over and over again. We could never find an explanation for that.
Ah.
Yeah, it was really weird, and it was happening during the time where there was a succession of things that were going on. So and you can feel it like you've been on investigations before, you know how, you can just like feel something is.
Different, something's happening.
Yeah, it's like holding if you hold in your breath, take a deep breath and you hold it in. It's that feeling like that singly weird, tense ceiling and then when you let it go, when you let your breath go, it's the same thing. It's like everything went out of the room after that moment.
It was it was very very weird.
I mean, like I'm thinking right now about this activity that we experience. The stuff that isn't I mean, I don't know, demon like, the stuff that's demons or evil or stuff that's not connected to like human spirits. What do you think is like the capabilities of that stuff, Like from your findings, what do you think is activity that comes from that kind of energy or whatever you want to say?
Well, typically when we see somebody describing something negative, we see it with more physical activity, aggressive activity, so scratches, pushing hair, pulling, objects moving, and not just little objects but big objects. Lorraine Warren always said if it was over just a couple of pounds and.
It moves, then it's the demon, you know.
That was one of her criteria. But we also have to take into account the perceptions of people, right, So I might talk to a client who is telling me there's a demon in their house. I'm like, Okay, well why do you think that? And they'll give me a rundown of things that are happening. As an investigator, I'm like, that really doesn't sound like that's what you're dealing with, you know. But they've convinced themselves that it is because of their own background, you know, so you have to
take that in consideration. The other thing I would say, there's I think I've talked to you about the Seaford, New York case in the fifties, right, Have I talked to you about that one?
The Poltugeist one.
I don't know what is it?
Okay, So it was in the fifties.
It was this family for nuclear family lived in this cute neighborhood in Seaford, New York, like a post World War two type the neighborhood neighborhood, and for six weeks they had intense insane activity that was witnessed by multiple people, including cops, psychologists, reporters, you know.
And it's still an open police case today.
And what's interesting about that case is they had a bookshelf that was like two hundred and fifty pounds just lift off the ground and fall. And there were multiple witnesses to this event. So now you know, you talk to now did any they had I mean six weeks of really crazy activity like that? But then it went away,
nothing bad ever happened to them. So you know, you're going to talk to one person and they would look at all that criteria and they'd be like, well, that's a demon, but it doesn't add up to you know what, what necessarily a church, the church would call demonic activity. It does in some ways, but there for demonic activity to happen, usually.
There's the target. It's how the church looks at it, you know.
So there's one person being more affected, there's one person who seems to be the target for the bully, if you want to look at it that way. And so even though they had matching criterias in some columns, it didn't fully match up on others. But for me, I think the case is that we've been on where it does seem like there is something otherworldly happening that we would classify as negative, meaning it's having a very negative effect on somebody.
There. It kind of does.
Interestingly enough, it does seem to follow the rules of the Catholic Church that they've laid out, which is there's a there's a starting point, which is infestation, and that happens with some sort of invitation within the person. So you know, whether they're going through a hard time or
they've invited it in somehow. It's like you're opening the door for you know, a party to happen, and all the little buggers come inside and infest and you know, infest your home, and then it breaks you down and that's when you get oppression. Some people also like to add obsession in there, but oppression is just where you're
feeling these things. You don't know why, they don't make sense for you, your family's noticing it, and then it turns into possession, which is when the person gets taken over. So I think in cases that we've been on, like a long time ago, that seems seems.
To be it would at least be something that the Catholic Church would label that way.
It does kind of seem to follow that pattern, which is which is strange for me.
So do you ever go to these cases and since you said invitation is important, do you do you ever have a hard time figuring out like, all right, which one of you did this and they're like it wasn't me, and then you like find it out. Yeah.
Actually, there was a there was a case a really long time ago where the family believed that they were being haunted by something negative day. I think they were using the word demon. But again, they were from a very very religious town.
They were very religious.
So you know, we were like, wow, that's like they're a lexicon for it, you know.
And we were like going over and over and over again in our.
Heads like what what costs? Where is the starting point for this? Let me ask them multiple times. So when I worked with clients, it's not just one interview, it's like five or six interviews we do with people, and that's a question that we were asking them every single time.
Nothing ever came up. And then when we were there and we were having the interview in person, was it was like one of those things like what I was just telling you about with the theater director who was like, oh, yeah, well we did find this ancient stercophacus in the basement, but I don't think that has anything to do with it.
You know.
It was the same thing where this guy was like, well you know what he's like.
There was that one time I made a pact with the devil.
Wow, okay, And we were like, what.
This guy when he was younger, he made a pack with the devil, like a straight up offered his soul to the devil in exchange for things, and he had just like slipped his mind.
I don't know how you forget that, but I.
Guess he get whatever he wanted the devil to give him.
I guess in certain ways, but I don't know if it was fully I don't know if that contract is fully executed.
You need a demon lawyer next time. Yeah, thank you to Katrina. Now again. Check out her show Portals to Hell with Jack Osborne Discovery Plus Travel Channel, April ninth. I love it, I love them, I love I love it. Anyway, We're gonna talk way more next week, so make sure you subscribe to the show. Please rate it five stars on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, everywhere you get podcasts. Leave a nice five star review if you like the show. If you don't like it, just stop listening. Don't tell me
I don't need it. Leave a ghost story in a five star review. I want to do a listener episode, so email me your ghost story. Bullet points to ghosted by ras at gmail dot com with the subject line listen their episode. Patreon dot com. Slash Roz dress Fleas for bonus content every week. My non spooky life can be found on social media Instagram at Rozhernandez and Twitter and TikTok at it's Raz Hernandez. I will talk to you next week with more Katrina. I love you all
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