What's that at the foot of my bed. It's spooky and juky, I'm really sure it's dead. It's coming this way. Wait a minute. Hey, I'm go said Nyron's dress. Please, Hey boo, it's me rah Oh, I'm in a great mood. I got to talk to John E. L. Tenny once again. He was on about a year ago. It was February eighteenth of twenty twenty one, to be exact. Go back and listen if you haven't heard it. John E. L. Tenney is a world renowned paranormal investigator, researcher, lecturer. Oh
the lectures are legendary. This man knows a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff, and he's a deep thinker. He really makes you sit there and go oh wow, oh wow, I didn't even know that was possible. And he's weird and it gets weird. This is gonna be a two parter. Next week it gets even weirder. But we're gonna start you off with some some some greade, a weird on this first part as well. Don't you even worry. I mean, we're not even we're not even
just doing ghosts. We're getting We're going We're going all the way to elves the existence of elves, a creature that has been spotted in Michigan that floats around and Okay, you'll see what I'm talking about. Before we get to that, I wanted to read a story. I got a story in a five star review on Apple Podcasts, which I love. Thank you so much. And anybody that has a good story to share put it in a five star review, I'd love to read it. This one comes all the
way from Australia. Thank you so much. I don't know your name, but this was left by somebody named hnsa Henosa eighty five. Thank you. I know it s eighty five. I hope I'm saying that right. Anyway. Anyway, anyway, here's the story. Okay, you saw me at Phenomena con Thank you so much. Ahead the time of my life at that. They're right. I've had some spooky experiences since living here
in Australia. I can't share the exact location because of business privacy, but I have had three very strange experiences at my place of work. My first experience takes place just as I had arrived to work that morning in our little kitchen area, fixing myself a cup of tea when my coworker walks by me. I see her, I know who she is. I greet her, no response. She opens the office door and walks out. Okay, rude. I think that she has either not heard me or she's
having a bad morning. I ask one of my other coworkers what that might have been about. Turns out the coworker I saw called in and is working from home. The drive up the mountain range takes about fifteen to twenty five minutes, depending on traffic. My second experience takes place just after my partner drops me off at the local grocery store. I'm making my way back to the office when I see another coworker sitting in her car
talking on her cellphone. I know who she is. I see her face, I know what her car looks like. No mistake. She looks up, smiles and waves at me. I smile and wave back. I walk into the office, make my way into the main room, and there my coworker is sitting at her desk having a coffee. The third time that this happens, I am not alone in my experience. My coworker and I are heading back inside the office when we see our other coworker's wife walking towards us. She is wearing a white dress with pink
floral patterns. I open the door and hold it for her, and my coworker and I greet her. We both see her, we both know who she is. She thanks us and makes her way down the walk and up the hill. The office only has one entrance, and we're on the second floor. We both make our way back into the main room and there she is standing with her husband. Same woman, same white dress, and same pink floral patterns. We both look at each other. Her husband said, she's
been there with him for the past twenty minutes. What is going on here? This this is a weird story in the best possible way. I mean, this is a word that we're going to be using a lot on this week's episode. I love that word. Yeah, that is that is some odd stuff. And it's all it's not even like your coworkers playing tricks on you or anything. It seems what is that? I know, who would know,
Johnny al Tenney, that's who would know. You know. We do kind of get into like astral projection, the ghosts, you know, kind of the ghost of the living kind of a thing. I wonder if that could be, that could be a part of it. It seems like it.
I mean, it's almost like you're seeing ghosts of people that are alive still well, thank you for sending me that, and also, anyone listening, if you want to be on a listener episode and you want to chat with me, please send me in email at ghosted by ros at gmail dot com with the subject line listener episode, with some brief bullet points of the kinds of stories you have,
and then hopefully we can record that soon. We have actually been recording in studio the past few weeks, which is very exciting because I have been doing this podcast from my couch, gotten very comfortable in my pajamas on zoom. But now I'm getting to do it in studio, sometimes on Zoom because some people still aren't able to come in.
But that's what we've been doing. I talked to Johnny el Tenney on Zoom from the studio and so you might see a clip floating around social media, maybe the Facebook group ghosted by Roz Drezvalles is what it's called. There will be clips, and hopefully eventually, very soon, very very soon, we'll be able to release episodes as full video versions. That's the goal. That is the goal what we're hoping for. But it takes a lot of moving parts and the people at Starburns Audio are killing it
making this dream come true. So look out for that. Okay, let's get into this. There is no bonus clip on Patreon this week. I will do a bonus episode. It'll come out sometime Thursday, and we'll be talking about some weird, fun stuff. I've been having a great time doing my new little Patreon podcast where I look up spooky and mysterious things. Find it on patreon dot com slash rosdres
for less on my second tier. Okay, here we go, my first part of my conversation with John E. L. Tenny on with the show Oh my God, you guys. I am joined by a return guest, a favorite who was on the show a little over a year ago, John E. L. Tanny, Hello, how are you fantastic?
How are you doing so good?
You're in Michigan, right.
Yes, just outside of Detroit. I can't believe it's been a year since I was on.
I know I've been. I get intimidated about asking people to come back on because I just it's such a favor to come out and share your brain. I'm you know I have said before that I'm I have a brain crush on you. I think your brain is incredible and I wish that I had your brain.
Oh, well, thank you. Someday when I die, I will I can will it to you after I die.
Oh please, either either as a decoration and a jar or just put it in my head. I don't know. Okay, where what is this? This is not where I was hoping this would go. But no, you're so wise. I mean, you've been You've been in the biz for how long? Over thirty years something like that. Yeah.
I always take my like, when I say how long I've done this, I always judge it by my first like paid lecture, which was in nineteen ninety.
Nineteen ninety, good year. And what was your first lecture on.
The JFK assassination?
Oh okay, so like conspiracy theory type stuff.
Yeah. One of my mentors when I was seventeen was a Kennedy assassinologist, so he not only studied the Kennedy assassination, but political assassinations of the nineteen sixties and seventies. So RFK, MLK Malcolm X, the Black Panther Party, Kent State University, and JFK, and he mentored me. I helped him with his lectures, and then eventually I felt that I was informed enough at the time crazy to think that now because I wasn't to do a lecture and did a lecture on the Kennedy assassination.
Fake it till you make it right? Yeah, Well, I mean there's just I've heard your lectures, I've I follow you, and I'm always you blow my mind last time you did it when you were on here, and so when I talk to someone like you, it's it's not hard to do, but it's like where do we start? You know, It's like what can we get into? Because there's just you know so much about so many different things. So is there is there anything that you've been thinking about paranormally lately?
I mean, that's the reality is is that's kind of my job is for as strange as that sounds, should just think every day about this experience that we're having that seems to be a shared reality with each other that absolutely no one knows anything about, like none of it makes any sense, and yet we've made all these determiners about it, and gravity is always going to be this way, the speed of light is always going to be this way. Like, but no one really like we're
all just guessing mm hmmm. And so I mean I do that every single day. I have been working for the past couple of years. The pandemic put a little bit of a strain on it because it was talking to people in person. But I was studying all of these weird I don't call them creatures, I call them form kanats. They got like these weird strange things that people were seeing all over Michigan in twenty eighteen and
twenty nineteen. At the end of twenty and at the beginning of twenty twenty, like giant, like multiple people saw a three foot by three foot box floating through the air that seemed to be covered in like tinsel or shiny hair and right, and it passed through like trees and cars and then eventually vanished. And that's just one of the weird creature formanat things that was spotted in this like two year span of time.
So what are people? What is it?
I have no idea, But for some reason, for two years, people were seeing I mean everything from a kind of humanoid shape that had legs, but its torso was three arms, but it had what looked like an aquarium on its head where its head should be walking around through a neighborhood at night.
And these are credible sources.
Yeah, people, and the majority because I do a lot of boots on the ground investigating and knocking on doors, which is the pretty much the hardest thing to do as a researcher is to like go through a neighborhood and cold call every door and be like, have you seen something weird in this neighborhood lately? Like and not free people out, and you know, get attacked by homeowners. But most of these people who saw this stuff aren't
associated with the other people who saw it. So like with the Giant's floating square box, I got one report of it, I went to the neighborhood, I started door knocking, and then found the next witness of it two blocks away, who hadn't you know, wasn't familiar with the person who sent the original rapport.
What is that thing?
I don't know?
And it just stopped.
Yeah, they seemed to just slowly fade out. There was another one that was really strange too, Uh, well, all of them are super strange. But one of them was like a maybe two foot black rectangle that had legs underneath it, that was running through a neighborhood and it was described as either having led lights or Christmas lights on top of it, and it ran up the sides of fences, across roofs, and like ran through people's backyards.
That's incredible. I mean, it got away. That's pretty great it did.
So that's what I've been thinking about lately.
I keep thinking, as you're talking about this, I keep thinking about I was just talking about my I used to do drag all the time, and I have this like big closet of drag stuff and one of my signature looks was like to look like a lollipop, like I love, like big on the top, with like skinny legs, And like I'm wondering, could it have been? Could it have been a runaway Michigan drag queen? And it is very possible silver hair, I've seen it.
Very possible, But the floating part, the floating part, maybe not unless it's the ghost of a drag queen.
Now have you ever heard of that?
I mean, I'm sure there are reports I have there absolutely have to be really quickly on that point. I was just thinking. So at one of my lectures, one of the things that I talk about sometimes because I always talk about like the weirdest experiences I've ever had. And so I went into this case once to investigate this house kind of cold. I didn't really know anything
about it. A friend asked me to do it, and I'm walking through the house and it was all filled with pictures of Elvis and Elvis clothing everywhere, and I did an EVP session. I didn't get anything. And then as I always leaving, I still had my recorder running, and right before I left, kind of jokingly, I said, John Tenny has left the building, right, it's just a tribute to Elvis. So I got home and I listened
to my recording. There was no ghost sleeve voices except at the end when I said John Tanni has left the building. This voice came across and said thank you very much in a really deep Elvis voice. So I called my friend who got me the location, and I was like, I think I talked to Elvis's ghost, and he started laughing and said, you didn't talk to Elvis's ghost.
That home was owned by an Elvis impersonator. You were probably talking to him, so in relation to what we were just talking about, if we do, if something of us does persist, I am sure that there are drag queen ghosts somewhere.
Okay, you just touched on one of my favorite topics that is not paranormal. But I'm obsessed with celebrity impersonators. And if you google celebrity impersonator websites, you can find big database websites of yeah we got Elvis, Yeah we got Marilyn. But then you keep going down, it's like Rosie O'Donnell, like Danny DeVito, like just like Barry gets more and more random as you go down, and it's just like people that look exactly like them. And I've
thought before bringing it back to the paranormal. I have thought before they say, oh, Marilyn Monroe or Elvis, Oh they haunt fifteen different places around town, and I'm like, could it be an impersonator?
Yeah? Absolutely?
When we see people in seventeen hundreds clothing, could it be a cosplayer?
Yeah absolutely. I mean that's one of those things. I've said this before. When I do investigations at Gettysburg people always say, they say civil war soldiers, but there are Civil War reenactors there all the time who love going there, They love being there, they love being in uniform. Maybe we're seeing civil war reenactor ghosts.
Oh my god, that is such a funny thought. Okay, Well, I usually do this thing towards the end of my conversations with people where I just kind of list off a bunch of paranormal phenomenon and they tell me a thing or two that may if they believe in it, if they have a story, whatever. I was thinking, maybe I could do that with you, and it would just be more extensive, giving the fact that you know so much about all this stuff. So I just wanted to
talk about just random paranormal stuff. It doesn't have to be a short, little, quick little segment either. If it leads us, let's just you know, we'll see where it leads us. Zombies. Let's do zombies, because I feel like you got something about zombies for me.
Yes. So years ago I became friends with a family of magic practitioners here in Detroit, and I became very good friends with them and started going over their home and we talk all about magic and their family's history with magic, and over the course of the time that I spent with them, they every now and then they drank a lot, and they would get a little raucous, but they would laugh and make jokes about one of the ants decease husbands, who they were still collecting his
insurance money, his death money, and laughing about him and their family. They even had a picture of him in the coffin that they would like laugh about and toast. And I thought it was weird, but you know, people have different family practices, Like I don't know what's going on. And so the matriarch of the family one day kind of gave me this old silver coin and she told me this legend about like if anybody owns your silver coin, they own you, and don't ever lose it and keep
it in a safe place. And so I did, and maybe a month later her and I got really drunk together, older woman, I mean, I think at the time she was probably late seventies, early eighties, and she said to me, do you want to see Lincoln who was the deceased husband. And I thought, oh, no, Like they have his body somewhere, like he's propped up in a basement somewhere like this has gone crazy, and so I said, you know, he's dead, and she was like, oh, he's dead, but he's not dead.
And so I drove her to It was late at night. This is probably ten thirty eleven o'clock at night. She had me drive to a local Detroit school and we went up to the back door, knocked, and a custodian came and let us in, and she asked to see this gentleman. And the guy that I had thought had been deceased for so long comes kind of shambling toward us, slack jawed, glassy eyed, pushing a broom, nonverbal. She commanded him to kind of sit down. He sat down in
a folding chair across from us. She berated him for like fifteen minutes, and next then like we got up and left, and as I was driving her back home, I was like, this guy is a zombie. He's zombified. They did something to him. They faked his death, got his insurance money, and then put him to work and a reaping the benefits of like his work. He's obviously not dead, but they did something to him to at least brain damage him to a massive extent. And as
we were driving home. She said to me, you know I have Lincoln's coin, that Gentleman's coin. She goes, do you still have your coin? Don't you? And I was like, okay, I cannot deal with this family anymore, like if they are practicing magic to a different degree, like literally probably drugging someone and brain damaging them. Like, I can't be with this family moore. So I kind of met a real zombie.
Wait aute seconds, So if somebody, if they got a hold of your coin, could that happen to you? Is that what you're saying, that's what she was implying. Yes, Okay, this story started out fun a seventy year old drunken witch. I'm like, this sounds like a blast.
Most seventy year old drunkend, which is are a blast to hang on with. This just got real, like real deep and real dark and not nice very quickly. And then I was like, oh, I can't hang out with this family anymore if this is what they're capable of.
But I mean, you know, everything they had told me about him, he had been abusive toward his wife and like physically mentally emotionally abusive toward her, and they had just had enough of him, and so he had to quote unquote go and they made him gone.
So he was a zombie in the sense that he was Yeah, his brain was damaged or whatever, but he wasn't. He didn't die and come back to life. No, no, not necessarily, but still, I mean that's probably as close to a zombie as you can get. I mean, what do you think he ate? What do you think did they take care of him like that?
Yeah, so everything that I kind of learned that night. He had an efficiency apartment that they paid for. He was driven to and from work. There was like a meals on wheels that delivered meals to him. But that was his whole life from that point forward. And they just got his insurance money and collected his Social Security checks and his payment checks from working at the school, and they were just reaping all the rewards from, you know,
the damage he had done to the family. They were like, he owed this to us, and so now he's paying us back.
Okay. I'm also thinking about a story that I bring up often on this podcast because it is still definitely one of the It was definitely the first story I heard on this podcast that rocked my world. It's from my friend Gunner. Basically, he met some people that were, it seems dabbling in some kind of magic or I'm not sure, but they got in his dreams. Do you know much about this?
I mean, yeah, I've gone back and forth with people over dream encounters and dream incursions and people who can get into other people's dreams.
I don't do that because it seemed like it was like bad intent, Like it didn't seem like it was like it wasn't a fun thing. It was like they got in his dreams and who knows what they were trying to do.
But yeah, it's like a psychic attack.
Yeah. So this concept, which I've explored a bit, but it's from what I've read and what people have told me. It's like a thing you can learn to do, and you can meditate and enter someone's dream. I mean, is that is that right?
Yeah, it's along the lines of you know, astra projection, out of body experiences, like you can train yourself even something like lucid dreaming, like you can train your mind allegedly to do these types of things. I think it's really interesting in my case. So I think you know about this, but I talk about having like a force field over my house that keeps all the evil, nasty
ghosties and things away from me. But my force field is so strong that if I astral project, I usually just end up in my kitchen or my family room, like I can't even get out of my force field. So it's really boring. But what's interesting is that when I travel to do lectures and I'm at hotels, then people on Twitter and Instagram like all like my friends will say like, oh, you were in my dreams last night,
And I don't remember being in their dreams. But I feel like my dream self, or my astral self or my psychic self, once it's outside of the force field, goes and visits people.
Okay, I feel like we did talk a bit about this last time. But with astral projection, how much can you get done? Like can your astro body do?
I mean, I think it's more at least for me if I ever try to astro project, and when I do it, it's more for fun and sometimes information retrieval, so even before sometimes it's just a form of meditation too. So right before this show, I took a minute to kind of ground myself and I went outside outside my forest, field. I went outside on my back doack and closed my eyes and I just imagined myself walking through my neighborhood, which is kind of how I trained myself to astro project.
And what I'll do is I will get to a point where there's a house or a part of the neighborhood I've never really looked at before, and then I'll walk up the driveway and like peek over the fence and look in the backyard. And so after we're done talking now because I did that before we started talking, I will go now after we're done and look over the fence in real life and see if I really did see into the backyard.
Whoa see. My question is always just like if I could sleep and do my laundry or something at the same time, or you know, during COVID, I would talk about, like why don't we all just astro project and we can go hang out like our astrobodies can't get COVID. So but that's why I'm always wondering, like how much can you achieve?
Like physically, I don't think you can achieve much physically, But what you were talking about, So in the nineteen seventies when the United States government was starting to work with remote viewing and astra projection, and can we use it to spy on other countries? The US had a team of psychic spies, right, and so they would allegedly astro project and they would go over other countries and
they would try and look in secret military bases. Well, of course, other countries knew we were doing it, so they had their own team of psychic spies. And for the first month or so, all of the countries that were doing it were actually receiving intel that seemed pretty legitimate, like these psychic spies were actually gaining actionable data. But
then all of a sudden it stopped. And if you look at a lot of the reports and you talk to the people who were in those groups, they start to talk about after a while, they started meeting each other in astral form while they were psychically projecting, and they were like, this is ridiculous that we're using this to spy on each other, to create war and incursions on each other. And so they made a deal in astral space to stop spying on each other, and then the programs fell apart.
Really yeah, oh my god, because yeah, the thought of like psychic wars like it's such an interesting thing. Okay, wait, now let's get into psychics. Let's talk about psychics. What what are your overall thoughts about psychics?
Just in general, I think that everyone's psychic. Really, yes, I think that everyone's psychic. I think that people can learn better to use their natural innate psychic abilities. I think that some people are very good at faking how good their psychic abilities are, and then they scare themselves when they actually do something really psychic. And then I think there's a lot of people who just fake psychic
abilities even though they naturally have them. Anyway, they're just you know, baking that they're greater than they are.
I kind of think it's like singing, where it's like most people can technically, like they can make that noise out of their vocal chords, but some people are like just born amazing at it. Some people have to work on it. Some people can use auto tune and fool you into believing that they can do it better than they can, Like I just and I think that sometimes they, like even someone that's really good at it can have
an off day. I'm actually just creating this in my head right now as I'm speaking, But that's that's kind of how I think of it, because I do. I do also think that everybody has psychic ability, but I always talk about like, I don't think there's any psychic that is always right one hundred percent of the time.
No, I do think there is. I don't think so either. I mean I have over the past thirty plus years, I've literally met thousands of people who've said they were psychic, and I have maybe I mean, out of those thousands, I have probably met a dozen that are really great at what they do and hit a lot of the times, and they almost all hate being psychic in that way.
Wait, what do you mean?
So one of my friends, like is probably one of the most psychic people. I won't say his name because he's he hates being psychic and he hates people calling him out for it. But it drains him. It's emotionally draining to him, it's psychologically draining to him. He doesn't do readings online, doesn't promote himself as a psychic. I asked him one time to do psychic readings at a
lecture of mine. I said, listen, just give it. Anybody that wants a reading, a free reading I'll pay you, you know, fifty bucks a person, as long or short as you want it to be, just do it. So I did my lecture and then afterwards I was like, how many did you do? And he was like, I did half a one. Don't pay me. And I was like, you did half of one. He was like, I did half a one. It was super draining. I don't care about the money. I don't want to do this anymore.
And then he never did another one of my events ever again. I've never seen him promote himself on the line as a psychic. It's like overwhelming to really be psychic.
I feel like, right, It's that's why I think too so some times when people choose to do it for a living, it's like it has to be a mix of a certain type of person that would that would want to use those abilities for money and dedicate their life to it, and I think they should be paid. I'm not saying that, but it's like a very interesting mix of things that would have to involve not just their psychic abilities. I guess that's what I'm thinking.
Yeah, And I think, but I think, I like I was saying, like, I think actually that it's mostly inborn. So like there has been legitimate research into something as simple as do people know if they're being stared at? Right? So the do you know when you're sitting at the movie theater or that someone is staring at the back of your head, because there's no way you should know,
But most of the time you do know. You can be on a bus or in a movie theater and you turn around and someone's looking at the back of your head, and that's a psychic power, right. But I think that that's probably an evolved process through predator and prey. Right, So, animals that know when they're being looked at would tend to live longer because they wouldn't get grabbed by the thing that swooped out of the sky to grab them, or the fox or the wolf or whatever was going
to eat them. And so through that evolved process, and since we evolved from those creatures, we have that ability still to at least in that one component part, No, when we're being looked at, Well, this opens up a door to all of those feelings that we have when you walk into a party or a bar, or a
restaurant or someone's house for the first time. No language immediately you walk in the door and you're like, this place sucks, like you don't even know why, but all of your body indicators, all your psychic indicators, are like this place sucks. Or you meet someone for the first time, you're like, we're going to be best friends forever, and you just know it. I think those are our psychic abilities, and I think you can train yourself to heighten them.
Yeah, I think what some people call intuition. I mean, I'm really into that. I'm really into listening to that. But hold up, I was thinking, going back to your friend that is a psychic that doesn't want to be a psychic, is there anything you can do about that? How do you mean who do you go to? Do you like? Is there.
I don't like going to psychics?
No? No, But I'm saying, if you are a psychic, that is like I hate that I'm an incredible psychic. I don't want this ability, Like I don't want to be able to know what I'm about to do, or to look at that person and know everything about them, or to touch this object and see things like I don't want this. What do you do? I?
Unfortunately, so I said, they were like a dozen that I knew. I don't know what that friend of mine in particular does to calm himself down or get himself out of that manic world of always being psychic all the time. Unfortunately, I do know a number of psychics who have huge addiction problems because they have found ways to self medicate themselves out of that anxiety, out of that worry, and out of that concern.
Yeah, because it's it's one of those things that's like you could you go to a psychiatrist, like what do you do? Go to a witch? Like what do you who do you go to to take that skill away from you or whatever? Like it seems like you're stuck.
Yeah, if you go to a I mean, if you go to a psychologist or therapist, they're going to tell you, well, you're not psychic, so don't worry about it.
Right right, It's like there's no one to turn to. Yeah, Oh, I feel bad. If you're listening to this and you're a psychic and you hate being a psychic, we are here for you because that does sound like, Hell, Hey, what do you think about haunted dolls?
I think that anything can be haunted. I think that we can haunt things that we can put our minds into something and haunted. So I think that dolls can be haunted. I don't think they start off haunted. I mean unless they're made by someone who's trying to make a haunted doll, then maybe.
So someone could make a haunted doll.
Sure, as much as you could make a haunted anything. I mean, if someone's sitting crafting a doll from scratch and they're like, this thing's going to be haunted, I'm going to put the spirit and the whole time they're making and all of their intention and all of their energy is being forced into the creation of this thing. I mean, that's just like a totem. It's any kind of magical doll mop it, you know whatever.
Do you think that a human what we call ghost can get inside of a doll?
I mean I guess sure. I don't know why you would want to. If you could get inside of a doll, that would mean you could get inside anything, right, And so I think like it would be kind of boring as a human being that can go where anywhere and do anything, to kind of lock yourself inside of a doll.
I know, because I do think of it, because I have an obsession with haunted doll and with fake haunted dolls on eBay, and like the stories that they have about how they used to be this person and now they're in this doll and it just really makes me wonder that exact question, like why, like do people like die? And then they think like, oh, at least I'll be
something that I can like move and walk around. Like in their mind they're like, oh, I saw Chucky in nineteen eighty eight, like I could probably I remember seeing that. Maybe that's an option for me. And then they get there and they're like, oh no, I'm just on eBay for nine ninety nine, Like this isn't what.
I was saying. And then they spend up a lot of time at a thrift store.
Yeah exactly, And.
Then someone buys them and paints them to look real scary.
Yes, that's always the best they put, just like green slime dripping out of their mouth. Have you ever encountered a haunted doll?
Uh? Personally No, But I have a haunted mannequin head in my house.
Well that's not terrifying? What okay? What tell me?
So a few years ago, I got a call from a security guard who worked at one of the local malls around where I live, and he said that he
thought something paranormal was happening. Women were reporting being groped, that weird things were being whispered in women's ears, real gross things, that butts were being pinched and boobs were being squeezed, and they had So I went there and they actually had security footage of women reacting, but there was nothing around them, and so I got permission to come in after close and kind of do a paranormal investigation,
and I couldn't find anything. This went on for a couple of weeks and I just kind of randomly when they would allow me to go in and investigate. I couldn't find anything. And eventually I got to a point where I said, I've been all over the building, all over this part of the mall where all these experiences are happening. And I was talking to them a break room which was in like the basement, and they were like, well, you haven't looked in the sub basement. So I was like,
I'll go in the sub basement. So I look all down there and there's nothing down there. But I found this big air shaft and I was like, can I go can I crawl up into this air shaft and they were like yeah, So I crawled up in this air shaft way back by these all these giant heating ducks, and I came around the corner and kind of lost
my shit. There was like a foam mannequin head laying in the dirt and it was surrounded by broken glass and yellow rubber gloves and note cards, like three by five note cards, and on the note cards, written over and over again, it just said things like I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you. So I asked if I could take all of it, and they said, yeah, go ahead. So I took all of that stuff home and I did an investigation with
the head. I did like an EVP session with the head, and the response I got was you forgot something. So I went back and I dug down in the dirt where the head had been, and I found an envelope and in the envelope were like clippings out of like Cosmopolitan magazine and catalogs of like women's eyes and lips and hands and legs. And yeah, it was really insane. But once the head was removed and all that stuff was taken away from them. All all the incidents at
the mall stopped. And then there seemed to be kind of two entities attached to the mannequin head. One was female, which I think was constructed by the other energy attached
to it, which was male. It was very gross. And so I think that at some point, probably, and this is all just speculation now, but I think at some point an employee of the mall, or someone who had access to that air vent, probably a custodial person, probably used to climb up back there and have adult alone time with that mannequin head, yeah, and created a kind
of thought form entity in the mannequin head itself. And then after this person moved on, they probably died and they probably went back to their adult happy space, and that's what was haunting that mall.
So okay, So this idea of like a thought form agrigor type thing, something that's not necessarily a dead person's spirit, right or.
Right right, something created by that person putting so much love and energy, hate, tred whatever, all their emotions into this weird mannequin head. And Macy, which is the name that I gave to the mannequin head so you can try and figure out what store it was underneath. But right, but Macy like looks like she has been through some stuff. There's a big chunk missing out of the back of her head. One of her eyeballs is gone. Well it's a foam head. Someone actually put wooden eyes into it.
There's only one left.
But oh my god, this is so creepy.
Are you going to be showing this video?
Uh? Yeah, why is Macy around?
I can go get Macy? Do you want me to get Macy? Do you want to go?
Yeah, Macy may I'll go get Macy. Oh my god, thank you?
Okay, so you want to see Macy?
Yes, we just took a quick little break so that Tenny could go get Macy. The doll head with wooden eyes.
Oh wow, I'll take her out of her little box.
What's gonna happen if you take her out? I'm scared.
Nothing. She's fine now. She's actually very inactive now that she has gotten rid of that bad male energy that was around her.
That is really what she looks like. So it's it's a wighead. Yeah, it's okay, because I have a room filled with those I mean, they have wigs on them. But oh my god, that is so beautiful, the gorgeous today. Okay, so since having Macy in your home, what kind of stuff has gone down?
Uh? Nothing really. I actually found the way, I think the kind of negative entity that I was associated with her really kind of faded away once I started introducing her to people and taking her to my events and letting people talk to her, and like that male presence, that kind of evil, overwhelming presence that was around her just kind of dissipated, and then she just became very quiet. And now I think might just be a mannequin head or a wighead.
Now, oh my god.
So this is the envelope that I found was hidden so like inside of it or like women's legs and I don't know if you can see that, or.
A high heel leg, high heel leg.
This is like a woman's chest kind of wearing like a fla top.
It almost I mean, my guests look at those pictures would be like nineties maybe right.
Yeah, for sure there's some eyes.
And when when did you discover all this stuff?
It's more eyes. This was probably three or four years ago.
WHOA, So it might have been from the nineties then.
Yes, And I think one of the things that really creeped me out more than anything was I took Macie to a lecture and was telling her story and there was a woman in the room who raised her hand and said, you know, I used to work at that mall. There was a custodian there, and she had worked there in the early nineties, and she said there was a custodian there that was super creepy that got fired for
like being inappropriate with the female staff. So then, like I wanted to track the person down, like see if he had died, or what happened, or who he was. The problem is, it's at a mall, and like finding him deployment records from someone who was a custodian for a little while or even a long time back in the nineties is just non existence. I mean, it wasn't even a Macy's in the nineties.
Yeah, how would where would you even begin on that?
Yeah, but she's fine now. She just sits in her little house and up in my life.
Good for her. A redemption story from Macy the wighead.
Mm hmm.
Okay, let's move on over to cemeteries. Yeah, do you think, what are your thoughts on cemeteries being haunted.
So I've said this before in lectures, just as a kind of overview of the whole thing. If we think that people can become ghosts, there have been a hundred billion deaths on the planet since there have been humans. A good estimate if half of those one hundred billion became ghosts, that's fifty billion ghosts. Now, human beings have only really lived in habitable land spaces on the Earth since there have been humans, So you can take Antarctica
out of that and things like that. If you take habitable land mass by fifty billion ghosts, that breaks down to about eleven ghosts per acre. So like a cemetery has as much chance of being haunted as anywhere else in the world.
Here you go, Yeah, because of the guy I've talked to people about cemeteries before and just like why would there be ghosts there? But I guess if you break it down like that.
The other thing is too, like we have this idea and or had a lot of researchers have this idea that like ghosts have this. You know, we use the term like feeding, but it's not really feeding, but like persisting off of our energies, like we go and we talk to them and we give something of ourselves to them, and then they can persist in that area because we're putting our emotions and our psychology into that state, our
quote unquote energy into that state. Well, if that's true, if ghosts needs some form of human energy to exist, then right off the bat, it seems like they wouldn't be in cemeteries because there's just dead bodies there. But the reality is cemeteries are constantly replenished with human energy because they are places of grieving and memory and people go there all the time and leave huge amounts of
energy in the cemetery. So if there are any ghosts even walking around who are looking for something to quote unquote eat, like, they'd be like, what's that radiant source of all that energy over there? Oh, I'll go over there, and that's probably a cemetery. And so you might be encountering in a cemetery not people who are buried there, but people from the neighborhood who were drawn.
There feeding time. Can you tell the story of the Tallest Stone?
Sure? So I was introduced to my first witch mentor was a woman named Marian Cuckolo, who was known as Gondala, the Good Witch of Michigan, and she was a fairly bad researcher, but a really good witch. And in one of her books about Michigan hauntings, she wrote about this cemetery where a woman in white was standing near the tallest stone in the cemetery. And after Marion had passed away in the early nineties, I was going to track down all these haunted locations that she had written about.
And of course she wrote down the directions wrong and named the cemetery wrong and everything. But I eventually found the cemetery, and when I went there, I even talked to the police, talked to the locals. People always said, yeah, there's a woman in white that stands near this tall stone. So I found the tallest stone, and the easiest way to talk about it was I went there. I always
go to cemeteries. I always go to places during the day if I can, just to map out the area and be safe and not fall in holes and know
where I'm not going to die. And so the first day I was there, I found the tallest stone and on there it said you know Ella on her grapestone and name was Eleanor, and so I took pictures of it and perfect haunting story, Like I'm walking around the cemeterium, like a little black cat runs out from under a bush and I was like, oh, perfect, And I was like, I was like, little black cat, show me where the ghosts are, right, and he immediately runs over and lays
down near the tallest stone. So I take some pictures of him. And then I started doing research on Eleanor and I find out that, you know, she died fairly young. I think she was twenty when she died, and in the newspaper accounts of her dying over and over again, she was referred to and you know, small town newspapers, she was referred to as Nora, and so that kind of sparked my brain, like, well, that's interesting, like her friends and family called her norm, but she's buried under Ella.
I wonder if that's the family name, and you know whatever. So a couple days go by and I was looking through my pictures with the little black cat and when he sat down in front of the tallest stone, he had pushed down all the grass in front of the tallest stone and there was something scratched into the base of this stone. So I go back to the cemetery and I pull the grass away and scratched into the bottom it says I am Nora on the bottom of the stone. And I was like, holy crap, this is
why she's showing up. She's being misremembered. She's not being remembered in the right way. She just wants someone to remember her. And so for years after that, on her birthday, I would take her a bouquet of flowers and say for Nora, and I would leave them, and people eventually stop seeing her.
But wait, what about this recording. Wasn't there like an EVP recording.
There was so much that happened in that some of it. So there was one where the tape was actually turned off. So I set this tape recording down in the cemetery to do a recording. And you can hear me. I mean, it's an old recorder. It's a cassette recorder, right, So you hear me press down the record button. You can hear that physical click click as it starts recording. You
can hear me talking and walking away. So I let it run for thirty minutes, and then I went back and picked it up, turned it off, got in my car, put it in the cassette player, rewound it. It reround really fast, and then when I played it back, you could hear me start the recording. You could hear me walk away. Then you can hear it stop recording. You hear click click stops recording. Then you hear click click and it starts recording again, and you can hear me
walk up and pick up the cassette recorder. So as soon as I laughed, she turned off the tape recorder.
That is amazing.
It's crazy.
Thank you so much. Did Johnny l Tenny. He has got a podcast called What's Up Weirdo that he does with his friend Jessica, and I love them both so much. They are just funny, interesting people that have a lot of interests similar to mine. And I know a lot of you that listen to this, so go give them a listen. It's fun. It's like hanging out with friends and just listening to them talk. It's not always like paranormal. They talk about all kinds of stuff and it's just
it's just fun. I don't know, I like it, So check that out and don't you worry next week. Like I said, it will get even weirder, so get ready for that. So make sure you are subscribed to this podcast. You can also subscribe to my Patreon if you'd like, for my new weekly bonus episode podcast about forty minutes every week I've been doing just researching different paranormal things. I'm doing it for the time being. We'll see how long that lasts, but either way, they'll be up. They'll
stay up for whenever you join. Please rate the show five stars on Apple Podcasts or wherever you rate a show five stars. Send me those ghost stories if you want to be on a listener episode ghosted by ras at gmail dot com. Subject line listener episode. If you like me and you want to break from the spookiness, you can follow me on TikTok and Twitter at It's raz Hernandez and I'm on Instagram at roz Hernandez. All right, I will talk to you next week with more Johnny L. Tanny,
I love you all, both living and dead. But if I didn't ask you to haunt me, don't haunt me. Okay. Back Star a podcast network