Building on a Legacy: Maria Burns Ortiz

Building on a Legacy: MariaBurnsOrtiz === Intro --- [00:00:00] Susan Gold: This is the GGJ Podcast, a show about the games industry, the people who make them, and the communities that grow up around them. I'm Susan Gold, a game education trailblazer and one of the founders of the Global Game Jam. Each week, we will be sitting down with a new guest, highlighting their own path and journey. [00:00:26] This is a space for honest conversation from makers about creativity, collaboration, failure, and the messy, the beautiful reality of making games. So whether you're a young dev or seasoned, an educator, a student, or someone who just loves games and the people behind them, welcome to the GGJ Podcast. Take a breath, settle in, and let's hear directly from the makers themselves. [00:00:49] Shirley McPhaul: This episode is made possible in partnership with the Global Game Jam, the world's largest game creation event, bringing together creators from around the globe. A big thank you as well to the Global Game Jam's headline [00:01:00] sponsors, Epic Games, Games for Change, and Xsolla, for helping make this creative community a reality. [00:01:06] To learn more and to get involved in the upcoming jams, visit globalgamejam.org. [00:01:13] [00:01:13] This episode is brought to you in part through the support of the University of Miami School of Communication and the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation. Their commitment to storytelling, media innovation, and community engagement help make conversations like these possible. [00:01:30] This podcast is proudly supported by the PlayStation Hero Project, championing and empowering emerging developer talent across the globe. Discover new heroes at playstation.com China, India, and MENA Hero Project pages. Find the links in the show notes in the description down below Introducing Maria Burns Ortiz --- [00:01:53] Susan Gold: Hello, and welcome to the GGJ Podcast. Today on the show, I am honored to welcome Maria Burns [00:02:00] Ortiz. Maria is the executive director of the Global Game Jam, where she helps tens of thousands of creators in more than 100 countries find their voice through making games together. She comes to games by way of journalism and education, having started out covering sports and culture for outlets like Sports Illustrated and ESPN before co-founding Seven Generation Games, a studio that builds educational games with tribal and marginalized communities. [00:02:29] Maria is also a New York Times bestselling co-author whose work has explored resilience, identity, and what it means to grow up seen as impossible until you change people's minds. Across all of that, there is a through line. She uses stories and interactive experiences to open doors, whether that is for kids learning math on a reservation or for first-time jammers trying to imagine a place for themselves in this industry. [00:02:58] Maria, thank [00:03:00] you so much for joining me. [00:03:02] Maria Burns Ortiz: Thanks for having me [00:03:05] Susan Gold: It's funny. This is the GGJ Podcast, so it's like you're always welcome. [00:03:11] Maria Burns Ortiz: I was able to score an invite, right? [00:03:13] Susan Gold: Yeah, So welcome, Maria. When you look back at your childhood and your family story, what are the early moments that made you realize you were both a storyteller and someone who has to take responsibility for the people around you? Natural Storyteller --- [00:03:28] Maria Burns Ortiz: Yeah. Well, I was always that person, and my mother tells these stories, I was always the person, and I remember this, had these very long, dramatic stories that they were always telling everyone, right? And I think that kind of shaped what I always wanted to... I always wanted to, I always wanted to ask a lot of questions, and then being a storyteller gave you that right in some ways to ask questions. [00:03:48] and I ultimately went into journalism, I think in part because obviously I loved writing, I loved storytelling, but it also gave you this power to just ask things that people said you can't usually ask. so I think that was a big [00:04:00] part of why I ended up going into the creative space. and my career, as I know we'll talk about today, has had a couple of different, arcs at this point, but I think all of them have been connected through that thread line. [00:04:11] And so for me, it was just about telling stories. but also a little bit, I've always been, I would say, uh, you know, technology's always been really a part of my interest as well. My mother tells a story about when I was seven and the teacher criticized my handwriting, and she said I needed to have better handwriting in the future to apply for job applications. [00:04:30] And I said, and this was way back in the 1900s, I said: "Oh, no, that's fine, 'cause I'll just use a word processor to type up my resumes." and so that's always been my thought, and then as I went into media as well, really looking at ways that you could use digital tools to tell stories, and I think just always having that kind of combination of interest in technology and love of storytelling set me down the road that I've found myself on. From Journalism to Games --- [00:05:00] Susan Gold: So you chose to go to school and you studied journalism, as you said, but you also added Latin American studies. How did all of those different ingredients start to then shape the leader piece, the things that started to shape the issues you cared about enough to step up for? [00:05:18] Maria Burns Ortiz: It's funny because I went in and I wanted to be a journalist, and I'm fortunate that I got to be one. But I don't think going into, especially when I was in college and university, was really thinking about being a leader. I will say I came from a very competitive household, so I always wanted to be the best and be really good at what I did. [00:05:37] But I think especially early in my career, the idea of being in charge of people was not something that I had any interest in. I didn't want to be an editor. I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to tell my own stories. I wanted to do that piece of the work. And I was really interested, I got into sports media actually initially. [00:05:56] I really liked that. It was just fun and [00:06:00] interesting, and to be honest, in some ways it was less depressing than, say, being a crime reporter or the government. I looked at a lot of different ways, but sports was really just seemed like a fun type of reporting. And it was in some ways, and then in other ways it's very interesting because you see behind the scenes and there's a lot of other things, and it turns out that even if you're writing for really cool places, it's still work. [00:06:26] And it's still creating stories and the day in and the day out. And I liked that, but it was really a different kind of role. And when I was in that space, I really got to pursue my passion, which is just telling stories and taking people's words and putting them out there for the world. And it was joyful, but it also comes with that level of pressure because you're the one that's now putting this out and you want to get it right, and you have all of those really important things that factor into that. [00:06:57] But for me, I would say honestly, I was not, and I say this all the [00:07:00] time, if you had told me when I was in college that I was going to ever make video games, let alone run a video game studio or now a nonprofit, but especially when I made the jump from journalism studio, if you'd said you're going to make video games that teach math, I specifically went into journalism because I did not really like math. [00:07:19] I thought it was boring, and later I obviously realized why it was important. But I think it's those funny things where you think my journey is going one way and you're absolutely convinced of it, and then the universe turns you in a completely opposite direction and it ends up being the right one. Making the Invisible Visible --- [00:07:36] Susan Gold: So one thing that I notice though is that you always gravitate towards people's voices that are often missing. what pulled you towards those beats and how did you learn to push for those stories inside big organizations? [00:07:51] Maria Burns Ortiz: Yeah. Well, it was kind of a mix, right? So initially, obviously if you're covering sports, you've got to cover sports teams. But one of the things that somebody gave me some [00:08:00] really great information about is, look, in stories, if there's a game, everyone's going to be talking about the big play, right? [00:08:06] They're going to be talking about why they won, why they lost, depending on which side you're from. But really where the beauty is and the nuance and the way you're going to set yourself apart is to look along the sidelines. What is the moment that somebody maybe missed? Who was the person that was key to that, that nobody else seemed to notice, right? [00:08:23] Because having that attention to detail and understanding that's going to be what sets you apart from all of the other stories, right? You have all of these media covering something, and everyone, 99% are writing the exact same story, right? And so what can set you apart? And so I think for me, that was really the thing, is looking at where are the stories that aren't being told. [00:08:44] And then as I expanded my career and obviously being a Latina woman in sports, that obviously there was a lot of stories that I would see perspectives-wise that maybe other people didn't think about. And just seeing that reflected I think was really [00:09:00] important to me, to being able to be the one that was different because that's what sets you apart, as opposed to this idea of often people don't want to be different because they don't want to get singled out from the crowd or. [00:09:12] For me, I was like, "Okay, if everybody's talking to this player, I'm going to talk to someone else." And then when I started getting, doing a little bit more outside of sports, similarly, it was really important to me to use the platforms that I had to hopefully elevate voices that maybe didn't get the attention that they deserved, because often we aren't looking for diverse stories. [00:09:38] We should be, but it's not always happening. [00:09:40] Susan Gold: GGJ has always been about giving people a safe place to try things, fail fast, and learn together. [00:09:47] How do you think about designing an event and an organization that gives people that courage? And I really wanna hear, how you got underrepresented [00:10:00] backgrounds to have their voices heard. I really think that's where your past really ties so tightly into this story. [00:10:10] Maria Burns Ortiz: Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's a big part of what, uh, makes Global Game Jam so incredible, right? You have so many different people, so many different perspectives, and giving people this creative outlet to tell those stories through games. And I don't just mean the narrative side of games, I mean the types of games that they create, everything from artwork to game mechanics to gameplay, all of that, I mean, plus narrative, right? [00:10:32] It's a really incredible way that you empower people to tell their stories and share their perspectives, and that's really been, I think for a lot of my career, probably all of my career, at the core part of what I have sought to do, is really just be a way that I can empower people through all of the different roles that I've had over the years to just have their voices heard and be that kind of conduit. Educational Games --- [00:10:55] Susan Gold: Well, what convinced you to take a risk and build a company [00:11:00] around educational games? [00:11:02] Maria Burns Ortiz: Yeah. So I said my whole life I was gonna be a writer when I was real little. I was gonna be a writer, and then I got a little older and I was gonna be a journalist. Same idea, just a little bit more of an evolved concept on that from like, how are you going to make money off of that, right? And then I was got into sports, and so when I got into sports, I really wanted to write for ESPN, right? [00:11:21] That was like the pinnacle of sports media. and when I was 23, I got an opportunity to be the college soccer columnist for ESPN. Over the years, I held a couple of different roles and different columnist type of roles. And at a point though, I had got to a point where I thought, "Wait, is this it?" 'Cause people always ask you, "What do you wanna be when you grow up? [00:11:41] What do you wanna do?" And so I was like, "I wanna be a sports reporter. I wanna write for ESPN," 'cause they were the best outlet out there. And then I got there, and no one had ever asked me, "And what do you wanna do after that?" They just focus on, that first goal. And so I got there and I wrote for them for, almost a decade, about [00:12:00] six or seven years, and I started to think "Okay, but what do I wanna-- Is this it? [00:12:03] Is this it for the rest of my life? Have I achieved my main goal of what I set out to do?" And that doesn't mean that for other folks, they're, they need to change. But for me, I was like, it was that checkbox. I like, "I wanna be there. I wanna write stories for ESPN. I wanna have that opportunity." [00:12:18] And then I did, and I started to think, "Okay, if this isn't all that I wanna do with my life, what do I wanna do next? And so my plan was, as all people, who don't necessarily have a plan, I was like, I wanna make money, so I guess I will go to business school and get an MBA, because then I'll figure all things out," right? [00:12:36] So I was in the process of studying and applying for that, and my mother, who has been programming forever, had always wanted to do educational games. she has a PhD in educational psychology, and she's a developer. but when she was getting her PhD, the technology didn't exist. [00:12:51] And so time had passed, obviously, and she said, why don't we found an educational game company instead? You could do that. You [00:13:00] go get an MBA." She also has an MBA, so she was able to weigh in. and so you could do that. or because we live in the United States, I'm based at, now I'm in Minneapolis, but I've always been in the States except for a couple stints working abroad. [00:13:12] But, here we pay a lot of money to go to school. It's one of the things I'm kind of envious of when I talk to folks in other countries, right? And so she said, "You could put all that money into getting an MBA, or you could take that money, have a real-world experience, build a game company with me, and see where it goes," right? [00:13:29] At the end of the day, you might not be out any more money, but imagine if the company's successful, all the things we'll be able to accomplish. And so we did that, and we started out, and we built a company. We got federal funding for s- it, the Small Business Innovation and Research funding from the US federal government at the time. [00:13:48] And we were able to build out, start building out a company that created games aimed at integrating culture and mathematics focused on Indigenous communities. And we did that, and then grew from there and [00:14:00] started tackling lots of other topics and other communities, US and Latin America. and it was really incredible 'cause, you know, it allowed me the i- the ability to focus on the narrative piece, right? [00:14:10] Which is really important because you need that in games, and that was my background. but then also the business side piece because I had two technical co-founders, and when you have technical co-founders and you're, I wouldn't say I'm not tech-savvy, but they were much stronger technically than me, so that means the business one is Maria, which was fine 'cause I really wanted to build those skills anyways, and it was a crash course into how you run a business, and how you build a business and how you grow a business and, creating, dozens of games along the way. [00:14:42] Susan Gold: A real life MBA, to be honest. [00:14:43] Maria Burns Ortiz: Exactly. 7th Generation Games --- [00:14:45] Susan Gold: Well, I'm thinking to talk a little bit about 7 Generation Games and and how you work as a family on that particular project. And I think that is a, a very [00:15:00] close tie to how you approach Global Game Jam [00:15:05] Maria Burns Ortiz: Yeah. I think having run a studio and really dug into that and had that experience, I was actually at Game Access in Brno really recently talking about, um, Serious Games is serious business, right? And that was a serious game studio and really looking at how even though one, one part of your life might not seem like it's setting you up for something else, how actually those skills are so transferable and actually set and, and process the way that you do things, even if you don't realize that at the moment, and then you look back and you're like, "Wow, everything I was doing led me up to this moment." [00:15:36] And I think having run a studio and then coming over to Global Game Jam, specifically having run a social impact and educational game studio, and then coming over to Global Game Jam gave me s- so many perspectives both on the, you know, the management side, but also just the business side of it and understanding the importance of that, because you really wanna serve people, but you also need to be really thinking about that financially. [00:15:59] And I [00:16:00] think even if you're talking about any part of games really, I, I would say often thinking about that financial piece comes too late or it's something people think about as secondary. And I think, you know, if you wanna build games as a, as a hobby, that's incredibly, that's fine. I mean, about more than a quarter of Global Game Jam participants are hobbyists, right? [00:16:19] But if you're looking at games as a business, you need to be thinking about making money as much as you're thinking about making games, and I'm kind of pushing that towards people, which I think is a little bit of a different shift, especially for someone running a nonprofit. But I say, and people who know me are, will probably say, "Yes, she says this all the time," you can run a nonprofit, but you can't run a negative profit, right? [00:16:38] And I think that that is very much also the case for a studio. You know, you have to be thinking about how you're going to make money so that you can make those games. And, and having run a studio, that's always been a core part of what I do, but also how can we serve as many people as possible? 'Cause that's really what it comes down to, to me, is how do we reach the people that we're trying to [00:17:00] reach and support the incredible talent that comes out of the Global Game Jam? The Responsability of Being a Creator --- [00:17:06] Susan Gold: But the one thing that was very impressive about Seventh Generation was its impact, but its ability to raise millions in grants and build projects for these communities. I think that each of us, when we take on something that has a lot of gravitas, We have a responsibility as a founder to make sure things survive and succeed, and then to be not necessarily a part of this community, but trying to help it get its own wings and thrive on its own. [00:17:49] How did you-- how did that responsibility make you feel? And how is that something that we can take on [00:17:59] Maria Burns Ortiz: [00:18:00] Yeah. I think there was a couple of things on that, right? And you're talking about grants. And so a lot of our revenue, especially in the early building stages, came from grants. Because here's what happens when you're doing social impact or educational or kind of those broad range of games, right? You tell people you're going to make games about that, and they say, "That is so important. It's absolutely necessary. We really should be doing that. It's incredible that you're doing that. It's important work." And then you say, "So would you like to fund it?" And they're like, "Well, I mean, no, no, definitely not." It's great, it's important, but they don't see the value in it in a financial return standpoint, right? [00:18:37] And that was something that was really important to me building a company, and that's why we set up our studio as a company and not a nonprofit, right? Because we invest in the things where we see societally, honestly, the reality is it's capitalism, right? Where we see financial return potential. And so for me, it was really important that not only were we building this company, but we were building something that could be sustainable, right? [00:18:58] To prove that model, to [00:19:00] prove that it is worth investing in social impact, that it's worth investing in that, not just as a charity, altruistic thing, but it's actually good for business, because that's only the way that I see that we're going to grow that market that's really necessary. And then as we were doing that, we were focused on, as I said, creating games around indigenous culture and making sure that we were working So we were working with different tribes, to build out stories for their youth, but then also understanding that once those tools are out there, once those games were out there, they were also representing those communities to anybody that picked them up. [00:19:36] And I think that was really important to us to understand that we weren't just creating these games for fun or for education, although both of those were the goal, but that they were going to potentially have an impact of how people viewed an entire community. And so it was really essential to us that we got that especially me being the person driving that narrative side and the creative side. [00:19:58] and so it was a matter of [00:20:00] working in depth, doing community-centered co-design. So going into those communities,being on the reservation, driving down, s- not even two-lane, a one-lane dirt road in the middle of January in North Dakota. But really being there and understanding what it is the stories that the community we were working with really wanted to tell. [00:20:20] And then not only that, but another part that felt really important to us was we started then also making bilingual games, and we did some for English language learners,Spanish English language learners, but we also then started doing, games in indigenous languages. And the goal was teaching those languages, but as we were working with, in some places, people who were the, going to be the last generation of first language speakers for that community, understanding that the work we were doing was becoming this kind of historical archive for these vanishing languages. [00:20:51] And that brought on this other level of pressure to make sure that we were getting it right. Because, when you create games, at least for [00:21:00] me, I hope that I'm making an impact. And then when you realize it's not just my idea, it's not just my story, but I'm creating these games for other people that will capture their story, that's similar, like I was talking about in journalism, you wanna make sure that you're telling their story correctly, right? 'Cause that's what the world will know. And I think for me, that was both the biggest pressure, but also the biggest honor of what I got to do, because, people trust you with their cultural histories and their languages and their stories, and then you get to help them put it out into the world. [00:21:35] And in the, in games, it's not just something that somebody reads, but it's this experience that people get to have. [00:21:42] Susan Gold: It truly is a responsibility, and you're creating an artifact that's something that hopefully not only endures, but it becomes part of culture, And that's a huge responsibility. A lot when you look back, [00:22:00] was there a specific game or initiative or classroom moment or something in Seven Generations that makes you feel like that's my signature? The True Impact --- [00:22:11] Maria Burns Ortiz: There's not a singular moment, I don't think. I think it was the culmination of all of the work that we did, right? So I always talk about people are like, "Which game did you make?" We made over two dozen games, I think, in the 12 years I was leading the organization. So it still exists, now I'm just at Global Game Jam. [00:22:28] But it's always been like, "What's your favorite?" And I'm like, "I can't." It's like saying which one is your favorite child. this one was my first one, and this is my second, and this is my... [00:22:36] Susan Gold: Which one had the most impact? [00:22:38] Maria Burns Ortiz: Yeah. And I just think everything builds on each other, right? And so that ability to take what we learned from one to bring it to the next game really shaped what we did. [00:22:49] But one of the things that for me was far more impactful than the games was seeing the impact that they had on the players, right? Seeing kids who, and I would go into the schools that we were working with or the communities we were building out [00:23:00] games with, and seeing kids ask questions like, that had never thought they could be game developers before, that had never thought they could create games, 'cause no one they knew made games, no one from their community made games. [00:23:11] that it seemed like this big, scary, thing that people that were super geniuses did in offices far away, and then being able to say, "Wait, this game kind of refl- this game reflects me," or, "This looks like someone I know," or, "How did you make this game?" And get them to start thinking about the possibility that you don't just have to be a consumer of games, but you can be a creator, and seeing that world open up, especially,the educational games we made. [00:23:37] Like I said, we expanded and we did things for older audience as well, but the really, the educational games we did focused on kids, from ages eight to 13, and just seeing them see this possibility for a future of, that they hadn't really considered, and being able to be a very small part of that, I think that was the biggest, win for me when, you saw that you were not just creating virtual worlds, but right, [00:24:00] opening up possibilities in the real one. Sponsor: The PlayStation Hero Project --- [00:24:03] Shirley McPhaul: And now let's take a moment to thank the sponsor for this episode, the PlayStation Hero Project, an incubator program founded by Sony Interactive Entertainment focused on identifying and supporting emerging developer talent from India, China, and the MENA regions. You can be a hero too if your game was made in one of these regions. [00:24:25] Check out the teams getting their support, like Big Boot Games, creators of the game Meteora, a survival combat racer where you're not just in the cockpit, you are the meteor. Dodge cosmic hazards, chase and smash rival meteors, and turn the whole screen into a meteor shower as you fight to be the last one standing. [00:24:47] Every run is a high-speed race for survival, where you chain power-ups, improvise your path through space, and try to outrun the chaos just one more time. Meteora: [00:25:00] The Race Against Spacetime is available for wish listing on Steam. [00:25:04] For more information on the PlayStation Hero Project and the teams they support, go to playstation.com China, India, or MENA Hero Project pages. [00:25:14] Find the links in the show notes and in the description down below. And now back to the show. Leading the GGJ --- [00:25:21] [00:25:21] Susan Gold: So I really think that all of these experiences, these opportunities that you've had, this storytelling really sets you up for being the executive director of the Global Game Jam. I couldn't think of anyone better to hand the reins over to. And as someone who has created something from scratch, and just from a wild idea and asking people to participate and grown the Global Game Jam as it did, I was very [00:26:00] apprehensive to leave, you know? [00:26:02] But then I felt that it had to grow on its own, and I understood that. And it went through some awkward stages and growth and newborn, and then they found you. And I never was so happy in my entire life because the mantle truly got passed to someone who knew what executive director leadership was, as well as I felt comfortable in leading and creating her own impact and vision on an institution, because now Global Game Jam is considered a veteran organization, you know? [00:26:47] So I'm truly happy that the board had chose you, that your skills are the kind of thing that I think will take us into our next [00:27:00] incarnation, and you have grown it and made it survive. So I wanna talk a little bit about that. I wanna talk about, global leadership, the awareness and recognition of what this organization is, and now that you have been here two years, we really are starting to see your impact on the organization [00:27:27] Maria Burns Ortiz: Yeah. and as you're talking about that, you said something that was resonated with me so much is this idea of like you build something and then you have to set it out into the world, right? And see if it lives without you. And that's the way that I felt when I was taking over Global Game Jam and leaving my studio. [00:27:42] And I found out about it because I think someone who I had met at a conference, we were connected on LinkedIn and posted about it on LinkedIn, was on the board. And I remember seeing it and being like, that looks really cool." Maybe I won't do it. But I had my studio that I had built and created, and this idea [00:28:00] of letting it into the world, without me was so scary and so frightening. [00:28:05] But I kept coming back to thinking about "Maybe I should apply for that. Maybe I should." And so I talked to, like I said, my co-founder was also my mother. And so I said, "What do you think about this?" And she's "Red," she's "I think it would be perfect for you. I think you should do it. I'm not pushing you out the door, but I also think we'll be okay without you." [00:28:21] And so I took that chance, but I completely understood it's really hard to leave somewhere. And even if you didn't start it, right? I think sometimes if you've been at a place for a long time, it can be hard to make that jump into something else unknown. But I decided to do it, and then obviously ended up in this position. [00:28:37] And it is interesting because you come into somewhere that exists, right? That has been around, like the Global Game Jam for nearing two decades. And there are things, and I found this in every organization I've ever been in, where there's things that are done for a reason and because they really work. [00:28:55] And then there's things that are done just as you're growing that are processes. I compare it to game development [00:29:00] where you're like, "Yes, we know this is a bug and we'll go back and fix it." But then as time goes by, you never really fully go back and fix it. It's not necessarily a blocker, but you're like, "Yeah, we'll make that look prettier in the future." [00:29:10] And then you end up doing something else and you don't always get to go back to that. And so one of the things when I came and I looked around and I said, the first year was great because I was able to say like anything you, "I'm new here. Anything you don't like, that wasn't me. Anything you do we'll keep." [00:29:25] But really looking at what did we want the legacy of the organization to be and what do we want to be in that next phase? Because it's really since you founded it, right? It's really the world has changed. Games as an industry has changed. And so how could we make sure we're keeping up with that was a big part of what I wanted to do. [00:29:45] And make sure that we were thinking about all of the communities that, to be honest, didn't exist in 2008 when Global Game Jam was starting out, that now do exist. And in many ways, one of the most incredible things [00:30:00] that I get to experience, I'm sure you've experienced many times, is when you go and people are like [00:30:04] Our global community for, or our national community, our region community exists because Global Game Jam, right? And our, my career is founded because I did a Global Game Jam 12 years ago, and that really, similar to like I was talking about how when you're telling the stories of people who are trusting you to tell their stories through games, that's the same pressure and honor I feel leading Global Game Jam is to be able to take that history and legacy and then carry it forward. [00:30:34] And so for us, my focus then became the GM itself, the one that we do the end of January is phenomenal, and it's done so many things. Then the question that I started to ask was, "Okay, but what else are we doing on top of that?" Because you have, especially, like I said, if you're talking about Canada, the US, Europe, you've got a pretty vibrant game community in a lot of places. [00:30:57] Not even, but not everywhere, right? I think we [00:31:00] almost take for granted that because I live in Minneapolis and the game system, the game community here is not the same that you would see in New York City or San Francisco, right? And so even in, in that space it's different. But how do we continue to grow that and create opportunities for people who do live in places where they don't have 15 studios? [00:31:21] And so we've started doing more partner jams, right? Opportunities for those who either participated in the jam and wanna do more, or sometimes the weekend of the Global Game Jam doesn't align with your life, right? And so that you can be part of our community and participate in what we do, even if you can't make it to the January jam, [00:31:39] And so creating that, I'm really excited. We launched, just last week, we announced it, it's launching later this month, a micro grants program where we're connecting indie studios, with members of our community, jammers, aspiring professionals who wanna start to get a little bit of an understanding or build out their portfolios as to what the [00:32:00] industry's and so people can apply for these micro projects around QA, art, or audio, and then get paid for that work. [00:32:08] But also not so much the payment piece, although that's always a perk, but get an insight and understanding into that process of creating games, building games on the professional side, not just doing a 48-hour jam. And I think all of those things together is how we best serve our community, right? And so we're not moving away from every incredible thing we do with the jam, but we're just continuing to grow that so that we can serve folks not just around the world, but also year-round. [00:32:38] Susan Gold: So today you lead the Global Game Jam, tens of thousands of creatives in more than 100 countries. When you first stepped into this role, what did leadership mean to you in a community this large and diverse, and how has that evolved? [00:32:54] Maria Burns Ortiz: You know, for me, it was really important that I get it right, and that's a really hard thing to do, [00:33:00] right? Because no one ever gets everything right. But really understanding that there was all of these nuances and all of these different cultures and all of these different things, and finding a way to lead and make the best decisions that I possibly could through that lens of serving as many people as I possibly could. [00:33:17] And it was really important to me that our jammers in places where maybe game development ecosystems aren't as developed, uh, as they are in, say, you know, Europe or the United States, right? But in all of these places, we are truly a global organization. So if we're looking at Latin America, parts of Asia, Africa, India, right? [00:33:36] Making sure that everybody had an equal place at the table and everybody's voices were being considered and their perspectives, that was a really important part of, of what I thought about coming in, because I think it's easy to lead from your perspective. I think it's really hard but really important to lead from the perspective of all the people that you serve. The Huge World of Games --- [00:33:58] Susan Gold: I know from [00:34:00] personal experience, and that is something that you have balanced so well, and you're able to always think on your feet, and you're able to present, I think, a real understanding of what the Global Game Jam strives to be. One of the things that I miss about the Global Game Jam is my ability to travel, and represent GGJ, And I'm wondering, Did you realize how big the world was and how big games was? Like, isn't it so big? Isn't that... And then the diversity, it's just crazy. [00:34:39] you're the only other person who can understand what I'm talking about, but it's just it's so big. [00:34:46] Maria Burns Ortiz: it is. It's,it's incredible 'cause, as I said, I worked-- In the US, I'd worked with a bunch of different tribal nations, right? And so seeing the difference and the variation there, and then also worked in Latin America, but that's just, again, a tiny part of the world, right? And just being able to [00:35:00] see, I think that's been one of the really incredible things to me. [00:35:02] and part that I also feel a real responsibility to is because often, and I saw this in other work that I did, often the focus is not on the places that are emerging, right? It's not in the gaps in the market where they're talking about, but it's, the places where things are already established. [00:35:18] And for me, when we're talking about growth, both of this industry and of this organization, we're gonna continue to serve the markets where we have a very strong presence, but the growth is gonna come from all of those other parts of the world where there's so much talent and so much potential and so much, energy and enthusiasm, and then how do we support that to build that out? [00:35:38] Because we have this global world, and I think technology has started to lower many of those barriers to entry to this field, but there's still a stigma in many places as to what, who can make games or where good games come from. And I think Global Game Jam really gets to be at the center of shaping and changing that conversation. [00:35:59] and yeah, I'm [00:36:00] so excited. uh, you know, I was in Brno in the Czech Republic, a couple of days ago, in April, I was in Nairobi. I get to go to Lagos Games Week. I'm, going to China later this year, and just really being able to see that, and I think we talk a lot about, we focus often too about the differences in markets, but also just seeing the similarities I think is really important that we acknowledge and focus on, because there's so much more in common than there is different in just figuring out how we bring everyone together so that everyone's successful. [00:36:30] And one of the coolest things to me, though, with Global Game Jam is seeing how when we do the theme every year, right? And I like to check out games from different parts of the world and see just how different parts of the world interpret this universal theme. I think that's really cool, and I think it's really just a great way to show, again, how interconnected sometimes we are, but also the beauty that comes out of diversity. [00:36:52] And no one wants to play the same game, over and over, right? So the fact that we can create all of these different, [00:37:00] perspectives is really cool, right? I just feel so fortunate that, I get to support the creators of those games and, bringing their ideas into the world, because I used to say when I made games, I think a lot about it from you making a game is really taking something that, lives in your head and translating it into something that people can play in their hands. [00:37:20] And that to me is, honestly, the closest thing to magic that I can think about and to be able to support everybody else in [00:37:26] Susan Gold: godlike because you create this universe that you live in and you play in and you create relationships in. It's an amazing place to be in games. I remember the first time I had that experience of looking at how different cultures viewed our themes. That was one of my highlights as well. [00:37:50] Additionally, I love how people also interpret things that we all know to be the same. we all know what [00:38:00] home is, but people's sense of home are so different, and that was always exhilarating for me. GGJ as an Opportunity Creator --- [00:38:08] Susan Gold: I think that the Global Game Jam gives people an opportunity and a safe place to try things, to fail fast, to learn new things. [00:38:18] When you think about designing an event for an organization like that and where we're going to grow, are you focusing on the Global South? Are you focusing on underrepresented backgrounds? Or are we just y- you did say we'll go ahead and... But how are we fostering these things? How do we move these organizations that are working in these places to push more technology, to skip the agrarian society, move to a technological society? [00:38:55] How does the Global Game Jam play into that? [00:38:58] Maria Burns Ortiz: I think it comes [00:39:00] down to creating opportunities for people to take part. So we just finished the Pan-African Jam with Lagos Games Week, which was a jam across the continent of Africa. And we had over, I think we had 120 participants in that jam. And so just really one of the cool things about that actually afterward was looking at the list of winners because we had overall winners, but winners by country. [00:39:27] And we had a number of winners by country that didn't have GGJ sites because I think maybe they don't have a big enough game community, all of these things. But they didn't have GGJ sites, and yet they were able to participate in this other jam. So we're creating access opportunities there. So the Pan-African Jam was one. [00:39:44] Like I said, going there and showing up is also important. I know this from having worked in tribal communities is you don't just show up one day and say, "Hey, I'm here to make a game for you. I know all things." You go and you listen, and you go back and you go [00:40:00] back, and you have to really be committed to hearing out perspectives that may be different than your own or really just showing up. [00:40:07] So like I said, I was in Nairobi, I'm going to Lagos. I'm hoping to go to India GDC probably next year because I'm only one lady and I can only go so many places. But we're also doing the Sanda Game Jam, which is across Latin America, and that's going to be in Spanish. And so we're partnering with an organization that's running that to support them, just like we partnered with Lagos Games Week. [00:40:29] And I think that partnership is important too because from the Global Game Jam perspective, we can run the jam once a year. That top-down model works really well to have 800 plus sites, 850 sites a year. You need that kind of centralized model. But if you're really going to talk about grassroots growth day in and day out, you need to be partnering with the people who are there doing that work and then figuring out how do we bring something to the table that supports that. [00:40:56] And so that's what we're doing. Like I said, the [00:41:00] Pan-African Jam was an example. Sanda Game Jam is an example because it's across Latin America and it will be in Spanish. And I think we're trying to really be mindful of adding additional sessions. We're starting to do webinar sessions and Our plan this year is to do them in at least one of each in Arabic, French, Spanish, Chinese, expanding out different languages. [00:41:22] So it's not an all-inclusive list, right? But really making it feel more global. obviously English is a unifying language, especially in the tech and business space, but I know that a lot of the folks who are starting out early in their career, they might not have that grasp of it, or it feels, like I said, inaccessible because if you don't see yourself reflected, you suddenly think,I don't have a place there." [00:41:44] Or, it's hard enough to learn new tech skills, let alone new t- learn new tech skills in your second language, right? And so how can we create this more inclusive atmosphere that in no way jeopardizes the other work that we're doing, right? It just supplements it and supports it, [00:42:00] but brings more people in and makes more people feel welcome. [00:42:03] And I think really, like I said, working with folks across the board, both our board of directors this year is really globally represented, I think, and I think it may be more than in, in some past years. We have folks, from India, from Saudi Arabia, from Argentina, from Taiwan. [00:42:20] I'm gonna pull back before I start forgetting la- countries that we have people coming from. But it's a really conscious choice 'cause you need all of those voices at the table when you're making the decisions that you're making. And I do a lot of, like I said, going and asking people,what works where you are, because I don't pretend to know,what's gonna work somewhere else, and the only way that I can find out is by listening to folks or going there as well, as much as possible, as much as one person can, to see what those different places are like and what those communities need. [00:42:53] Because, you don't know what you don't know, and I think that's really how you're gonna grow, how we as an [00:43:00] organization are gonna grow, is by really being receptive and mindful of what our community needs, and then doing the best that we can to serve that. How do you do it? --- [00:43:09] Susan Gold: I wanna ask you a personal question. you've been put on the Forbes Next 1000, the 40 Under 40, the Power Meter 100, all of these, lists. How are you navigating the spotlight now, and how do you turn that into something that opens doors for others rather than just being your line on the resume? [00:43:34] Well, I mean, part of it is I have three children, so there's no room for ego when you have three children, especially if you have two teenage daughters. let me tell you, no one will keep you more grounded than teenage daughters, perhaps. for me, I think it's really just about being fortunate in what you have and really looking at it. [00:43:51] Maria Burns Ortiz: I've always looked at that, and I'm pretty sure it's Michelle Obama, and she's not the only one, but a lot of people said, making sure that you are doing the best that you can to help the [00:44:00] people after you come up, turning around and helping the next person up the ladder, and I think that's really what I view it as you know... [00:44:07] and it's funny that you mentioned the 40 Under 40. This is not my daughter, this is my son, so I-- Now I'm 43, so I'm over 40. But I remember when I got that award, my son was like, looked at it 'cause it came in the mail. It was, like, during COVID, and he looked at it and he's "You're under 40? Wow. [00:44:22] I thought you were way older than that." And so just having that grounded in my life, I think helps. But I think the real goal is how do I turn around and make the world a better place? I think that's why I got into social impact games. That's why I'm doing the work that I'm doing here is because I think it's really important that we use the opportunities that we have. [00:44:44] and my mom, her grandmother is Venezuelan, used to say, "If you are wasting the talent that you have, you're doing a disservice for the abil- to having gotten that talent." And so for me, that's my, poor version of the translation of it into English. [00:45:00] But, for me, I think that's about what it is, you-- everybody has these certain talents and opportunities, and if you don't use it to the best that you can, then, why do you even have it? [00:45:08] You're wasting that ability. And so for me, I look at it as how can I, like I said, leave the world a slightly better place? because, who doesn't want that? [00:45:18] Susan Gold: What a perfect note to end our conversation. I truly am so thankful that you're a part of GGJ, your leadership, and I think your continued management of this organization will continue to keep it growing. Thank you [00:45:35] Maria Burns Ortiz: Thanks. Thank you Outro --- [00:45:36] Shirley McPhaul: Want to get involved with the GGJ Podcast? We'd love to hear from you. Please send your ideas, suggestions, and questions to ggjpod@globalgamejam.org, and tell us who you think we should be talking to next, what stories or issues matter most to you about the future of games, and help us highlight the people and practices that make a sustainable [00:46:00] creative life in games possible. [00:46:01] This podcast is proudly supported by the PlayStation Hero Project, championing and empowering emerging developer talent across the globe. Discover new heroes at PlayStation.com China, India, and MENA Hero Project pages. Find the links in the show notes in the description down below. [00:46:17] Thank you for spending time with us on the GGJ Podcast. If this conversation sparked something for you, please share it with someone who might find it useful. And don't forget to follow along so you never miss new stories from makers around the world. You can find more episodes, resources, and information about the Global Game Jam at globalgamejam.org. [00:46:38] Catch us on Substack and on YouTube and anywhere else you find podcasts. This has been the GGJ Podcast. Thanks for listening, and keep making games