Disclaimer.
We'd like to know before the start of this interview that the opinions about to be expressed by the guest of tonight's Getting Salty Experience Podcast are that of the guest and do not directly or necessarily reflect the views of the host of the Getting Salty Experience Podcast.
You're listening to the Getting Salty Experience Podcast.
All okay, Oh.
Those are rookie numbers.
Welcome back to it again, serious podcast. It's deal and that brings to you the kitchen table, the firehouse kitchen table, you know, the one rough right, the whole of the thousand stories, thousand and one.
Maybe it's eighty nine year old chiefs to come out and tell their story.
We gotta I gotta really wind that way back machine up really tight, tonight, bro, I gotta get the crank going. We're going we fifties. Just this us pretty shabby. I gotta tell you, this guy's.
We're gonna stop working on.
Yeah.
I only got a they saw a fire or two. This guy. I got a couple of stories to tell too, and a nice guy, very calm.
Very calm, cool collective.
Back there, Louis was losing his ship a little bit where the chief is. You're talking to the gods. Yeah, just like slow your role.
Cool.
I did text him, take it, don't worry about it, take your time, just hurry up.
All right. That's not what you do with a fire, is it.
That's not how it was. Take it easy, don't.
Stay growing out.
Hey, you know who's in the chat?
Who do we having?
Will Wolfgang is in the chat? You know what I say to him? W W You know what I say to him? He's a big Phillies fan. Suck it, baby around, baby.
I no light note. I need another shield, so I gotta hit that guy up.
You hit him up, baby, my mess. He's ounced to him yesterday.
What a game?
Don't let the door hit you the ass on the way out. All right, Phillies fans.
Those guys could do it.
I think they could do it.
Don't don't give me in maloica, don't mylloy?
Who would you out playing? You can do it.
You can do it, man, Come on, I'm you can do it. Would rather I'd rather play the Uh yeah, I'd rather play the Dodgers. I think I'm not really afraid of that picture.
Staff.
But here we go, Oh, City City News support he's he's at a California year. He probably likes to either the Padres or the Dodgers. I bet I don't know I'm going to win, right, Look at Profaccini, he's got to throw in ranges. Look good for this home opener ready, I like, we gotta start it already.
I think what Tom's saying looks like the hockey just yet. We got to finish baseball, all right.
But you know I played the song just once for Procuccini bringing it up.
Oh okay, give me get to it because it's on the back end.
Nobody cares about hockey there, you.
See, Thank you, Kevin Malone. Nobody cares about hockey. Let's get to our commercial, our only commercial in the evening, Yes, and then we'll get the chief And here I don't want to keep in the back too.
Well.
Yeah, he's looking his patiently awaiting all He.
Had a cohort in there that said something about a can flying down all land.
You know, we relived a pretty full funny moment there.
He lobbed that out of nowhere guy off the side.
Right before we went live. Yeah, all right, here we go. Let's listen to mister Vince.
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You asked me what the friction coefficient? Well, here it is, puppy.
I had to leave the pup.
Fat that's going I just something caught my eye forgot what it is. Really see, I'm getting old, bro through. I can't remember what it was.
It was a free free uh.
I was to give Mike a little heads out tonight, give Mike love. He passed his seat, Pat, What is it? Got a seat? Pap seat? Pat? God? Is that what it is?
Sea?
Pat?
CP eight T.
Says that so soon enough's gonna be on the job. Right, But we we dragged him, We did the form right.
He's going to be a physician.
Now we're gonna be worried every day.
You better, you gotta worry about the kid every day.
You're serious about that?
How old we were said?
How old?
Before? He's on a dating page like, Hey, my name is Mike and I am I just found him.
He's right on, he's already on it. Let's just see it.
Here are going to.
A chief in here all chief, you're ready and we can see it. I know we hear us getting.
Very very anxious.
He's coming to the stage.
Eighty nine year old f d N Y Battalion Chief John McElroy.
Welcome, Welcome.
We couldn't get his name right, McIlroy. What we calling it?
But I don't know what the hell you were calling him?
Roy?
I butchered the name. I'm sorry.
Welcome, Chief, Welcome to yourselves. Thanks so much of getting me on here.
Folks that talk about should be good patriotic first, Yes, a duty, a civil duty.
All right, here we go.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic, for which it stands, One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
Well, what's what the hacks night? You have no dipity do?
No, no, no, that's uh a hurricane come through.
For God's sake.
It we gotta get We got to crank back the way back machine, chief, So we're going back way to crank this bid boy up, way back to nineteen fifty nine.
Okay, today is the sixty fifth anniversary of my appointment date, which is today's date. Oh my god, holy yeah. We got sixty five years there. My first assignment was engine sixty five. So if you're looking for numbers, there you go.
Wow, that's a good one.
Let's go before that, where'd you grow up, chief? Tell us a little about the earlier life before you got on the job.
Okay, I grew up in Staten Island, went to all the Catholic schools, of course, and then my father was on the job and he never talked about it at home. But as kids, my brother and I used to go to his firehouse, which was Engine fifty six on Broadway, and if they were out on a run, they used to be out on brushfires all the time. We slide the pole and go in the backyard and play handball and then disappear.
So how farll was the files from your house walking distance?
I guess about two miles? I guess, all right.
On the bikes.
No, yeah, bikes, for sure, that's true. Forgot about the bikes.
Yeah, before I guess this is before the Versato too, right.
Oh yeah, I think there was a Arizona was sixty seven. So before that time you took the bus, the boat and then the train to wherever we were assigned, whether I was in mid Midtown or Brooklyn. And when I was in rescue too, we had Joe Keller was there. He lived about six miles from the ferry and he would run there every day, so it was in bro right, Yeah.
Yeah, So I guess we know how why you wanted to become a fire and your dad was a fireman.
Well, actually I was in the telephone company in Jersey and I got married, and so when I did, I had to get a job, so I'd gotten a telephone company, and then about five years later I decided to come on the fire department. My father never pushed my brother or I for it, oddly enough, even though we knew a lot of guys he worked with, for sure, But I don't know where I actually got the motivation from.
Maybe I don't know, but I was so happy I did, and like most of us, that one lucky Saturday when we took the test, that did it pass?
Was your wife right? Is that that correct?
He got on? He got out of fifty nine? What you had you take the test like fifty eight fifty seven?
I would say the earlish would have been late fifty eight because it was very quick, and I was on the in the first batch. And who I come on with was Bill Fihan and tomb and they were all on the top of the list. So lucky for me too, since I'm not a big guy or anything, I got that one particular test was the physical was only qualifying, so it went by your written mark, which most of us could write a good today you'd probably write a hundred, But I didn't write a hundred, but right, yeah, yeah.
I wanted to say before chief that We've had a lot of other guys that came on that had their dads or in this, you know, on the job, and a lot of them say the same thing that you said, that they never really were pressured or the guy their father's never talked about the job really that much. That was like a strange thing to me. I didn't think that that would be the case most of the time, you.
Know, looking back, I would say, particularly today, we have so many pops and kids on the job and every firehouse, so somehow they brought it up. I'm trying to think back then. I don't think we had like company picnics or Christmas parties or anything like that.
Did How long did your father do the on the job?
My father was on the job thirty six years.
Wow.
He wound up as a deputy chief in the Tent Division, and he was a fireman and a battalion chief on Staten Isle and a company officer, and he loved Brooklyn when he went there. And one time he got in trouble I don't remember what because he never would talk about and headquarters transferred him back to Staten Island and then somehow or other in those days, whether it was with the Holy Name or whoever, the union. He was
one of the organizers of the UFOA. He got a conference with the mayor no less, and they transferred him back to the tent division. That was I don't know how the hell he ever pulled down.
He called the.
You know what I mean?
What year did your dad get on chief?
Nineteen thirty three?
Wow?
That was right after the depression, and at that time he had worked for the conetison. Then he come on the job and he was very smart himself too. At one time as a fireman, they had a contest and him and five other guys one going through the fight department. They won a scholarship to ccn Y because the Fight
Department at that time wanted their own engineers. And then while he was going to c cn why he a lieutenants test come up and he said, I have to take the lieutenants test to make more money rather than going to CCNY.
So he dropped out of that and took him a deputy.
I want to be a deputy.
I did your brother get out of the job, Not at all.
No, he was also it's almost nepotism there too. And we were in the New Jersey Bell and our cousin was there and my brother and then my brother transferred to the telephone company down to Florida. But no pressure at all at home with that.
No, Oddly when you're working for the phone company, have to do it.
At least.
It was.
Benc and Hurst seven to seven seven.
Actually when I went to work there in nineteen fifty five. We had the manual phones with the party lines too, and all the party remember the party line in fact on Staten Alam growing up, I still remember the telephone number, and I think we used to get three rings when it was ours. And then I'd find my sister. We only had the one phone in the house. She'd be sitting on the stairs and she'd pick up the receiver and listen in to whoever.
You could listen, right.
That was like, uh, it's a wonderful life when the mother was listening in on the on the extension.
Right, yeah, very good, yeah, very good number please.
That was like me and you listen to everybody's conversation sitting in your room. We had that what was that that radio that could hear people's phones, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, so where'd you have to go to Proby School? That was at Ward's Island.
Then no, we got assigned and we were assigned to divisions and I was in the fourth fourth platoon, I guess it was. And we were the last ones to go to Proby School, which lasted for six weeks. First two weeks you went to the shops and got first daid and lectures and stuff like that. Then the next two weeks you went to sixty eighth Street for the latter school, right, yeah, right, and then the last two weeks actually was Welfer Island. Yeah, and we'd have to there.
I'd have to take the bus to boat the train and then get a train to take us from Queens onto the Rock and then you better not be late. And the beauty of that too was you went to school five days a week, but you still had a base company that you were assigned to before you went to school, So Saturday nights you spent the night in that firehouse as well, so you were in the fire department seven days a week.
For were you in Staten Island, then at least they put.
You always from Staten Island, yes.
Right, so they put you in a firehouse at Staten Island, a home as a home fire house.
Oh no, no, it was in Brooklyn. In fact, my base company was one O five truck, yeah, which was good then. And they were in the old house on Pacific Street by themselves, right, was it themselves?
Yeah.
George Kelly was the captain. John O'Rourke was there, Jim Duffley. They they had guys that you looked up to immediately, you know. And of course we had no gear, so whenever you went in you had a gearb whatever they had and probably was soaking wet to begin with from because they were busy for sure, so you gather up whatever you could.
Did they allow you to go in the buildings, They really kept you outside as really you know, ab outside.
They had a brand new fifty eight Mac and that was like the real first a lot of company truck I ever was on. But I'm trying to think. I guess we went in the building later, not right away, not right away. And actually there there were three of us assigned, so that was a lot of people who put on a fifty eight Mac the engine in the middle.
But every run we came back, we had to wash the wheels, and they told me that was their tradition here from the old days with the horses and all the dog horsecrap, they had to wash the wheels to get rid of it, and that's what they did.
Kept it going.
Oh yeah, I kept you go home, for sure, but good, good experiences and guys to look up to. Stuff like that. And while you were waiting to go to Proby School, every week you would be assigned to different company away from your home company. I one, why be a week on Marine seven of Fulham Street. I guess two or one engine one fourteen truck each for a week, and
each to gain knowledge. And the same time, of course, you had no gear, so you'd always be barring everything anyway, So when you wound up in a truck company, that stuff was kind of big, for sure.
But chief do you remember even like back then, do you remember like saying to yourself, I wanted to go to a busy place, or like like since your dad was on Staten Island, like, I'm sure it was slower there than it was in other areas.
What was your feeling then, do you remember?
Well, my feeling there was since one hundred and five truck was my home company. My father was actually in the division then at that time, and I said to him, because he really wasn't much for doing favors, I said, you know, I'll take it out of private school. What do you think can I get assigned one hundred and five truck? And he said, no, you can't. He said, that's one of my favorite companies. You can't go there. And I wound up in Midtown. Thanks a lot, pal, that's good you didn't ask twice.
But then you get assigned to Engine sixty five. That was your first assignment in January of nineteen sixty. Then by the Times Square, right.
That's right, forty third Street. We were first to a Times Square and on New Year's Eve you had to be in full uniform and get down and stand me and other guys from another Every company had a detailed guy to guard the alarm box in full uniform. So you went in Times Square from eleven PM to one am.
Then you all got like back then, was it crazy?
Not as much as no. Actually, you could walk around all over the place, tell you truth. Yeah, that's a good one, Yeah you could. The best story is when I went to sixty five the battalion was still there, Battalion eight, because they were still building eight engine and two truck on fifty first Street. And then after a couple of months the house was done. They moved out and Rescue one moved up. So they come in and John Maloney was the captain of sixty five and Joe
Rooney was the captain of Rescue won. And he got Rooney he said, Joey said, you're never first, du we are. We'll be in front all the time and every time, and they outran us by the way because they were covering all the boxes downtown still and up to Allum. But anyway, he said, every time you get a run, my shouff will move our rig out and when you come back, we'll move it again. And we always were in front, and that was it. And Rooney said, okay.
That might have been the original house of paying their codes.
Oh yeahs to nuts.
They were the guys, they had their senior guys. They were just everyone you could look up to. You know, it's like WHOA look at these guys. The fires they go to and stories. They'd come back and I'd make coffee for them and toast. You never had much to eat because uh, the Commissary supplied almost nothing.
Then.
I think the only thing we had was evaporated milk for the coffees and that was it, with a little container to put on top of it and all. But it worked out good that the rescue got along good with us and stuff like that. And like I said, some of the guys there, you just looked up to all of them, for Grande. The one guy that Philly prior was a fire in there too, and another guy
I think it was John, an Irish name. Any rate, they had a fire and the woolwarts and then he's in there and he's searching around and one of the other guys told me story and his flashlight went out. They all they had them with the regular de cell batteries, and he reached up and he got some batteries out of that one of the shelves and bulworth and put a dollar up for them and then left. These guys
were incredible. And at night, everybody going to bed, they'd have their boots up there with them as we did, and then they'd be nailing kneeling next to the bed saying their prayers. Really, yeah, every one of them.
Yeah, everyone, Yeah, Wow, I never heard that before, and.
The engine did it the same.
You know.
Wow, I guess most of them were Irish or Italian Catholics.
That's you had a lot of World War Two vets at that time, Yes, yes, lots of them. And you know who was there with me too was Jimmy Elson, which you probably all. And he grew up and he was a buff and three engine and that's where John Maloney, the captain of sixty five, was a lieutenant there and they sort of adopted him. So when Jimmy got out.
Of Proby school, he came to sixty five, and then later on the year or two we were there, he was a couple months behind me. We'd put in our transfers to go to the Ladder Company, and on the CD thirty and those years, there was a line for your heithe so I'd make out a thing one hundred and eight, truck, one hundred and two, one hundred and eleven whatever, because I Brooklyn. I figured that's where I should go. But anyway, every month I would come back
with a red circle around my height disapproved. And then Jimmy put his in for Brooklyn too, and his would just come back disapproved. So it took us three took us three years to get out of there. So he went to one hundred and two. And I want to rescue too. And I always say I spent my three years under the bright life of Broadway and then the next thirty five in the ghetto.
Does you have your first job that you caught sixty five?
Yes, I remember we had some, you know, but they had a lot there, relatively a lot with buildings under construction, high rises, and I remember them in the winter a couple of times, like third alarms in these things, and the wind would be blowing and blowing all the two white fours around, stuff like that. And we didn't have
that many fires. And they used to always kid that every big fire they had in Midtown had a name for it, like to want to make a fire or the Times Tower fire some and would just be kidding around and all. But I do remember getting a nozzle for the first time, and that was something else, and I did put it out, you know. It was probably an office something like that, But that was quite the thrill, for sure. But you didn't get the nozzle too much. But and the guys were good, a lot of senior guys,
and I remember one guy, h Patti O'Connell. He said, Jack, you're here, don't listen to these other guys. Start studying. And I remember later on and it worked, of course. He said, you have plenty of time on your hands, your own watch and stuff like that, so start studying. And if you remember, well you might not. We used to when the boxes come in, you have to write right along the talk board. And when I first started in sixty five, Lieutenant gave me a piece of chalk.
He said, here's your chalk, and wherever you walked around when about bells come in, whether there are or anybody's, you got to write them down on the wall so you wouldn't forget them. So and then when you're doing the coal furnace in the basement and you get the three rings, you run like hell because that was a phone alarm. So it's like we didn't get that many phone alarms. But yeah, but just things they did, you know, just traditions, stuff like that.
You know what I wanted to ask your chief. So now you're on the job.
Is your father talking to you now about want to fires?
Is he talking about like where you should go after this?
Like a couple of years, the zero nothing nothing, no, no.
When I went to rescue too, he said later on, he said, what did you do that for? I said, well, I wanted to go to a ladder company and I couldn't, but I was able to get an interview with Captain Lawla and he had been an enginem in himself part of his career and all he was looking for, Yeah, that's him there with the cake. Uh. He looked for attitude. I was. I was like like an electrician. I could do telephone, I could do welding, some construction, carpentry, stuff
like that, but his main thing was attitude. And I went over and got an interview with him. He said, okay, Jack. Of course he knew my father, but he never brought that up either. But he said, okay, you're going to be number five on the list, and when five guys get transferred out or promoted, you'll be on the order. And sure enough, the fifth guy was P. D. Easton. His name was on the order and mine was two. He got lieutenant and I got to rescue too. It
was how they did things in those days without the computers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, everything was.
For two years on the.
Job, I was just gonna say, what was that like walking into that place after sixty five? Not taking anything away from sixty five, but I mean, now you go from midtown, you're going into Rescue two. They had to be in nineteen sixty two sixty three. They were just probably just picking up a lot of work, right, I.
Mean they were starting to pick up work. Yes, And we had I bet we had two hundred alarm boxes assigned on which Rescue one didn't. But we had every box. There were four hundreds in downtown Brooklyn, so as soon as you heard a four come in, you got up or wherever you were and get ready. They go out, and they had boxes for like the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel, things like that. But getting back to what you said, I'm there now, I'm looking at these guys, and I
had no truck experience. I accept a couple of details to tow truck things like that, But and I was busy listening and watching and do my best making up with committee work. I guess stuff like that.
You were on Calton Avenue, then.
With Carlton Avenue, the thing there would surprise the hell out of me. But their kitchen table was behind the backstep of two ten engine originally in the house. It probably was on the third floor, which we also had like a sitting room up there with a barber's chair and stuff like that. And one of the guys running foot and interested, he cast a statue up there of an Indian. He made it in clay and then he
cast it and talk about talents. But to get back to the other the kitchen table was behind the briarstep. On one side was the hose tower. The other side was a bathroom at least luckily, and then the small storage room in the back behind say like going out the back door of the firehouse, that was the kitchen with the refrigerator, a gas stove and supplies. It's and nobody complained, that's all. You just did it, and you figure what to talk about the environment and the smoke and whatever.
So so you were doing it up in sixty five with rescue one back to bath and then you went to two ten, and you do it too ten, that's true.
But with two ten we were in the front toe. That was for sure, like I just said before, they were really starting to pick up the running there. But I'll say one thing in Brooklyn, a lot of times at night. It would slow down when I'm we want the Low east side. We ran all night, probably rubbish and cars and crap like that, and then Rescue two. That was my original animal house. They built the guys that tore the talent to these guys. They built the
salt water fish tank in the basement. It must have been four by four at least, and we used to take fifty five gallon drums to Coney Island to fill them with relatively clean salt water and bring it back and dumping in there. And we had a shark and various fish and things like that, and certain guys would take care of it. They just that was their thing. But the beauty there too was we had a monkey.
The monkey was like, I don't know who the hell ever brought him in there, but the typical of a monkey. He'd be throwing his crap.
All over.
Guy how much. One day a kid comes up and he said, your monkey is down the street in the projects. He's climbing up the wall there and I think he just bit a girl and luckily the guy and watched it. No, no, that's not hard monkey. We're just always trying to catch him, given to find the owner. Of this, luckily for me, since I used to do the committee. Who are though?
He wrote, he ripped up a twenty dollar bill that Captain Lawla had out for the House tax and the week the next very next week, the monkey was gone.
It was gone. Yeah.
Yeah, they had.
They had the tremendous guys in the rescue. There would like, uh three of them deputies later and all the time. One guy worked with a certain gas special gas lines and stuff like that. But you'd look up to all these guys and all these talents that you say, holy shit, you know. Plus we had probably three guys from one hundred and eight truck, all the busy two hundred and
two stuff like that. Right, And luckily for me when I went there, I worked almost all the time with the Hamilton and he was Joe Rooney was probably the toughest rescue fire officer I ever saw. And Hamilton knew everything. He was a frogman in World War two. He built houses. He could do anything. And we'd go to like cellar fires, and I remember a couple of them. He wouldn't put
his mask on. He had it on, and the rest of us would be die and they put their scots on and I asked him one time, I said, lou, what you know you didn't even put your mask on. He said, well, if we got in trouble, then I'd put it on and I'd get you out of There's the way it was. And he knew all kinds of guys. One time we went over the one hundred and eight were when I was still on Siegal Street, because he had a couple of friends. They just wanted to talk
and chat. And I went in the back and in the kitchen there's a motorcycle hung up on the wall that they took off one of the civilians that gave him a hard time, and the guy never claimed the motorcycle. That was That was with the thirty fifth Battalion before the before they ever moved, and another tough ladder company. Woo these guys, these guys were good for sure.
Yeah, I guess you learned a lot of fire duty over there too, right.
Yes, yeah, And other thing I was saying before, we used to get in trouble. Sometimes I don't know how to rescue got into trouble. But we'd go to multiples out in the eleventh Division or fifteenth Division, and when we're ready to take up The deputy would say, oh, go help Squad three take up their line, and we got that done. He just did it, and he said, go, hurd, go help two thirty five take up their line. We must have taken on four or five lines before we
get out of these places. And and then that disappeared. Somebody was on them for some reason. I don't even know who really, but U trying to think that too.
Did you ever do that as a chief tell the rescue to pick up line?
No? No, In fact, i'll tell you later. When I went back when I was a chief and went to the Bronx rescue three were still in Manhattan, but when before they even moved over, I used to love to see them because I was building up because with a rescue company, whatever I'm doing with the fire, in comes the rescue with five senior guys and a senior lieutenant or captain and would just come up to me and say what do you want and they do it. So I'll tell you some of that story a little bit later.
But lots of experiences. We had no partner saw by the way, we had a chainsaw and rescue too. We had a saws all. We had a different. No air bags, but we did have plenty of wedges, and we had a settling stuff like that, and every once in the blue moon you'd get a spare. They had no real rescue expaars. We'd get an old hose wagon and we pible all the stuff when there with a big canvas on it and we'd sit in the back and I was it, you know, you do that's all the typically
all of us. It's you did what you had to do, that's for sure. And there were some great guys there for sure. And the engine to the engine, even though they were slower than us, of course, they were just wonderful, you know, good stretch, steady guys. Two ten was a good engine. So but they weren't that busy then. I guess,
well they got busier later, of course. But I can remember being on watch there in the summer and you had to write down every box and the whole box will before with the engine only engine not too ten, but every you got everybody's signals then, you know, and everybody there again was with the chalks writing it all down, stuff like that. But it was a good house too,
and easy to get to. They were right up the street, from the Navy Yard, and that was probably the first we used to go down, like I said, all the four hundred boxes, and that was the projects down below two past the east of the Navy Yard. So I learned started to learn about projects there too, and when we would get in, no matter what floor was on, the rescue always ran up the stairs. It was incredible. That's just what they did. You know, So you joined in on that.
Yes, why do you only spend two years? Did sheef? It seemed like an ideal spot to be in.
Okay, it was tough to get there. I got told you before at the height. But while I was there, I had took the lieutenant's last test and I did very well on that as well. And then I figured, well I never was in a ladder company, so I better get to one to get real experience of a ladder company. And they approved that, and luckily, luckiest thing in the world. I put it in for eleven truck and probably eighteen truck different ones too, and I got eleven and that was wonderful. That a lot of work.
Back then in.
Those days, we were in the top ten every year runs in workers. It was the trucks district we probably did seventy five percent of hard working for some whatever reason for sure. And they were in a relatively new house on Second Street, and when they built it, it was I got the plans that were in the basement one time and in the front of the house that's had engine eleven ladder eleven up.
On the wall.
And they had done away with eleven engine which was on Houston Street. They moved it to Harlem and made ninety second section of ninety one engine and then they disbanded them. So twenty eight was a camp up on eleven Street and they moved to Second Street. It was like, whoah, time of real time is to leave.
I was just gonna say, I said, what a lot of guys running right.
Yeah, we've had a lot of guys from eleven truck. I can't think, I know. There was a bunch of guys that came through there. That was a busy place.
They to me, it was like, wow, this is one here. I'm a kid from Staten Island. First day drive up drove them. We had to take the ferry to get the car across to bring my stuff there. And looking these all these old lord tenements with the fire escapes were old. Then it was a Jewish neighborhood, of course, but they were. This was the say sixty four something like that. I think that's when I went there, something like that. That's when the Jewish people were moving out
to co Op City going north. And then the Puerto Ricans were coming from Puerto Rico as of waves then and just families, you know, and they took over the neighborhood that way too. And I used to always regret I never learned Spanish because whenever we went out, the kids would talk to us and they tell us what was going on whatever we needed to know, things like that, And I said to myself, no sense learning this, next grump. Everybody was speaking English, and of course I didn't know
that at the time, and never change. You would want what they were yelling at us, you know.
But did you uh, with the work that you did and rescue two, you think you were You were set to work and you were good. You knew enough about truck work to go to a busy truck like that.
No, not at all, No, I have to tell you. Also when I was in rescue too, also in my provaate class was Jimmy Johnston he went to three ten engine and we had a multiple out. They were first due and Joe Keller and I had to go search for him and we found them dead up on the upper floor with an MSA mask also, that's all. And I gave him out the mouth, but he didn't come back, and that was that was the first time personally I had a dead fireman. So that was that was a
tough one for sure. There. Then, of course much later on they put one seventy four in there. But uh, this guy was good as gold, you know. But that's part of our history for sure. But no, I didn't know. In fact, when I went to eleven, Uh, there were Bill Dunn was there too.
He was.
We had Bill done and another guy, Ray Nybro. They were the tallest firemen I ever saw in my life, these guys. And when we go on drill, I say, this is true, he said. I said, let's tell the captain. We'll go up on the roof and cut the roof. Because we had the vacant buildings, you know, start and starting a lot of them, and we didn't cut roofs open. Then we had you had two inches of the top paper and you're gonna cut this thing with an axe. I don't think so. So we used to do a
lot of polling ceilings. But I said, anyway, I said, you know, show me how you do this stuff, because we didn't do it the rescue either, you know, we didn't have a sore or anything. A lot of it was pulling ceilings, particularly in row frames and stuff like that. You'd just go from building the building, pulling ceilings and having an engine follow you. But we did some of
that there. And I remember, like I said, we had the fifty eight Mac there and I never went to show for school because I was on a lieutenant's list by that time and they wouldn't send me. But I was a tileman there in eleven trucks. That that was good. And we had one show for Joe Carber. If I held the wheel straight, he would back the whole rig in on Second Street. He'd do all the turns and everything like that. I said, the hell did you do this? But he did it, you know, I.
Said, killd skill let man.
Yeah.
And then once in a while you'd get the wooden aerials for a spare. That was always a challenge with the overhang of the ladders in the back and we had an old show for there at George Highes and he said, I said, George, take it these going around his corners. He said, I got the front through that you back there, you fellow, no sympathy at all, but you learned. Uh, truck worked pretty quick there. Then of course we did have the fires, there's no doubt about it.
And on average, how many jobs would you go to? I mean, we work at twenty fours? Then are you working straight tours?
I'm we were working straight tours. You could of course get mutuals and then uh rescue, we're straight tours too. Very it wasn't a big thing to get mutuals for some reason. It came later, thank god. But straight tours and uh, that's so true. I'm trying to think of the runs. It wasn't overwhelming, but we were first do a lot. That was That was the big thing.
And have you ever been down there?
Yeah?
That city, right, I mean yes, tight with like whatever.
They were four five sixty, just big buildings attached the hallway like everywhere.
Right, It's incredible.
It was an education too. You go in the old lord tenement and each floor a lot of them there were they weren't broken up into four on a floor. There were still the railroad flats and between the doors, say, the kitchen door in the rear for the each apartmente the side of the hallway, that's where the bathroom was and one door, and both those families used that, is that right, Yeah, And before that it was outhouses in
the backyards, so that was a verse improvement. And then other tenements they'd have the bathroom was in between the kitchens inside the apartment and each door would have a lock on it, and god knows how many kids and stuff like that there too, But that's what you lived, and.
It just heavily occupied.
Then very heavily occupied. Yeah, i'd say so. The vacants were getting more and more for sure. And they found out, of course later that the landlords, they people weren't taking care of the apartments and stuff like that, and the land ward the land ward would have the fire up
for insurance, right. And then sometimes you go into a flat and they'd have a drop cord from the whole way light into the apartment for their electricity to the refrigerator if you want that, but for electricity, you know, ye, stuff like that.
We've had a few guys come back in that time, chief from eighteen truck as well.
I frige.
I can't think of names right now, but I didn't realize how the eighteen well, you know, was that four pit coves, right.
They were on Broom Street then with.
Separate the guys. You're really busy too, right.
Oh yes, oh, definitely, definitely, And the battalion was with them, and they had the separate doors. The chief had his own door. And when I was on I was on a lieutenants list, and before I got promoted, I used to fill in driving down there to learn the paperwork and stuff like that. So I got to see and they were very busy. I won't say his name, but when we used to go the guys used to go sick. They the doctor would come to quarters to check you
before you didn't go to the hospital. He came to quarters and one of the guy, the guys ever in eighteen Truck and seventeen lined up waiting to see the doctor. And one of the guys who won't say his name, he gets up to doctor Ginsburg and he had been had a mouthful of oatmeal and he threw up on the doctor's coat.
Story story was my father was in seventeen engine from sixty to sixty four.
Oh oh, okay, that was a good engine for sure. Yeah, and again it was on Broome Street before they moved, of course there was they were second, du we were first and second due back and forth. Almost all the boxes we had, really, and that's crazy. They were very good Bill Bill Dietrich was there, Joe Sanson was there as fireman, any number of guys. It was just a
good house also, and the battalion was good. Gus Beekman was a chief there when I was in the eleven truck, and then he quickly became a deputy, so he kept going up too.
How do you remember all the names?
Chief? Still I'm still pretty good with the names, but not all the time. Now. I'm old enough now, so when I meet somebody now, if I don't remember the name, I just say, sorry, what's your name? I'm go I know you, but what's your name?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I just.
Want to see if I have a note here of anything with eleven. But that was amazing experience in in the Lower East Side, for sure.
You said Gus Beakman came from over there.
Yeah, he was the chief in the fourth Battalion.
I was wonderful just when when my father was on light. Dude, he drove Gus Beakman when he became the commissioner.
Hot stuff.
That's probably where they met each other.
Over there, I would say that you met him right there, yes, yeah, and he was well alive, crazy, Yeah, he was always in busy. I think Beakman started in fifty eight engine. Yes, all and well lined, uh capable, you know, just just remarkable, just going to see uh, let's see. Then I'll go
into getting into twenty eighth. But another thing with eleven and and twenty we had lots of a fair amount of reattenements and what the hell are you going the rear tenement in the backyard of an old lawer tenement. But they told me I'd listened that the rear tendement was built first with the front yard, and then later they built a new tenement in front of it. Right. We had them on Avenue C. We had them on
Tenth Street above Tompkins Square Park. Stuff like that experience, because anything you did you had a carrier and the waterable ladders back there, which tell you truth, we never had to do too much of that. So that was fortunate. I mean, didn't need it that often. The engine would put it out, that's all. You better get busy and put it.
We were usually smaller buildings, right than.
Yeah, there were probably three or four story.
Yes, we had them by us, ruffy and a couple of them.
Yeah, just to put them on the sidge chief so that uh, you know obviously.
Of course, yeah, of course, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. There was so much to learn there and to listen to these guys with it just different, you know. They the old timers were there for years and they watched that whole neighborhood change completely from just nice. Oh. Also in the fifties, the whole east side there from Avenue Deer to the river was commercial, and with their urban renewal, they ripped all those commercials down, commercial building and built
the projects. Talk about getting experience in projects, whoa boy, And they had them all up Avenue D and across the other side Columbia Street and Sheriff And in fact, when I was in sixty five engine, many afternoons you'd be on watch and we had one of those little halcraft the radios and you hear that, I forget the term they use. I don't think they use the term using all hands, but whatever. It was almost every afternoon
that I'd be on watch to hear this stuff. They have a fire at box two ninety two Sheriff Brington Street. I said, where the hell is this? And it was vacants and there were so many of them. They used to have an engine patrol that would drive around and you hear nothing. And then by the time the engine driving around looking for things, they'd go back to quarters the box had come in. Somebody sought the fire after
they went by. But just interesting, just that's pretty crazy. Yeah, great crazy stuff there.
But in those sixties, when did the riots take place? What was the middle sixties?
They I'll tell you, I didn't rescue two in sixty four in the summer, and we're responding to a box in Brownsville, multiple and we got out to Fulton Street, say two in the morning, it doesn't matter when. But and all of a sudden there was wall to wall people and I think that Hamilton was working. He called dispatcher and he said, we're stuck here. There's what's going on.
And the dispatcher had no idea of all these people all over Brooklyn in Bedstein and stuff like that in Brownsville, not really causing trouble trouble, but block on every street. It was incredible. And that one he Aspatters said, they go back to quarters. He said, I'll have to find out what's going on, and then he called the police department to say. I said, oh, yeah, we'll have people gathering all over the place. And I don't know whether what started it to kind of early for the Vietnam War.
I don't know, maybe just a social condition, maybe, don't know, but that was I would say sixty four was my first experience with that. Yeah, when I got to eleven Truck, we didn't have that, but we had gangs there that generally like the Lord something, the Lords was one of them their names. But they didn't give us trouble there. They'd go to other areas, then they come back to where they lived on the Lower East Side.
The warriors did coops.
Warriors come out.
And play well in pacifically. When when I went to eleven Truck, there were no pharmacies, there were no banks, there were no supermarkets and not something else. Then all were shut down or burned down. It was like, what the hell happened? Here, so if you wanted anything, you had to go over to like Avenue A or first avenue for shopping and all.
It was just like somebody dropped the bob over there.
Probably nothing very interesting for sure.
But what was the firehouse like back then? Like was there a TV in the kitchen? Did you guys?
It was very good, very good. We had we must have had. We had a kitchen in the back on the right with the house was built in like nineteen sixty, just like one eleven and two fourteen almost thing, And we had a sitting room with the kitchen. We had a household, guest stove, house, whole refrigerator, two tables and chairs and that was about it. And had an oil burner, so that was a break. We didn't have any coal
to do. We had a backyard and a side alley and on the second floor next to the engine officer. They had a patio on the second floor, and of course they had a palm tree grown there. But well why they ever put a thing something like that there,
I don't know. But and another thing too, in the truck, I had a guy Charlie O'Brien came from eighteen truck every Christmas he painted the outside apparatus doors with Christmas scenes and fyless n nabadad stuff like that, and joined them with the neighborhood and stuff like that, and they'd give the kids candy at Christmas time. But he was a beautiful artist, this guy. I couldn't believe the stuff he did there. But otherwise inside it was just tile walls.
And uh, that's a lost thing, right coops.
Painting of the apparatus door that was always like a pretty cool thing to each firehouse.
Different firehouses had it done different ways.
You know.
Yes, it's just the tradition they did and and I don't know what the rest of the year he had to take it off. He must have repainted it read that's all.
Yeah, right, I got to show you a picture, roof. I got the opposite here two blocks for me. The guy's painted his garage front garage door to look like Snyder Island. He must have been for one seventy four truck. It's a Snyder Island. It has their logo and it looks like a firehouse door all really yeah, his house, crazy picture.
Yeah you got to take a picture of that man.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeap.
When I was in eleven and I studied and I I got to be Lieutenant left one, covering and stuff like that. And then the department didn't have a captain's list, so they wanted to make provisional captains. And the best whoeutendant in twenty eight John Gillen, he was a senior guy and probably the best officer there, just attitude and stuff like that. He took it and he went to be a provisional captain of six truck And like I said, in those days, when his name was on the order,
the guy replacing him would be on that order. So I was covering in Brooklyn, covering in Brooklyn, and I called Ardie Laufer, who was a deputy in the first Division. I don't know whether I don't even know where I knew him from, but he was very influential too, and I asked him, I said, any possibility I could go back to twenty eight And he said, what do you want to go back there for? I said, oh, I
like it there, just whatever. He said, okay. So when John Gillen got promoted, he was on the same order to twenty eight, and I inherited a senior group of his guys because the senior guys work with him, and the tru used to call them the professionals. Now now I'm the lieutenant of the professionals. But of course I knew all them anyway, because they were right, right, right right. But and I inherited the best chow oldest chauffeur, Hank Burlock.
He knew every address, every hydrant, conditioned to the hydrant. It was just wonderful there too. And we're talking about if you want me to keep on talking about twenty.
Eight, yeah, of course.
We're talking about Rescue two being the animal house. Well, twenty eight and eleven, there were three different incidents I had there myself. We're stretching and crawling into one apartment and an iguana crawled out past me.
Another time like Gonzo, they're all over downhill.
Another time with a similar situation we were. He then that was for sure, we got a job or tour whatever every day. But in fact, Jay Jonas, when he was covering down there as a lieutenant, he uh, I think I told you he was covered in twenty eight one day his first day, and he told me later on, I said, that was the busiest day I ever had in my love and.
He told us that, yeah, but I told us that.
Yeah he would. But as we're calling into this other place, a bowl constrictor slid past me. One of those, just little probably only a couple.
Of feet long, Yeah, only a couple of feet.
But the best one was this. We got a box to go up Avenue D in Ninth Street, and was going up Avenue D. You could see smoke coming out of this tenement, and uh, you can see somebody on the fire escape. And every time my show for Hank Burlock saw smoke, it was pedal to the medal and up we go and stuff. And we get up there there's a nude woman on the third floor with at where the cat is bigger than a bobcat and.
Which we talking about here where we go here, it.
Was like, do you give it ten seventy five or do you call for the ASPCA at any rate? I don't We put the fire out. It was I think it was below her or something like that. The truck will never get inside, coached back into the apartment, shut the door and left the cat out on the fire escape. And what a sp A s p c A did show up and took it, took over the cat, so I figured that the rescue too anyway, But there were so many different things there.
A lot of time there.
Chief like you're back, so you did almost ten years there from fire.
Yeah, talk about fun times. Huh. Oh, you have the busiest night I had there with just a night we had thirty five runs. I was going to Florida. The next day, we had thirty five runs. We had three real wall hands. Two were first due and then the second alarm. And that was it. It was like, holy was it? That was it? For sure?
And then you went home and your wife said, all right, packed the car, driving.
Driving down to Florida.
You got all the way to rockby Mount, Florida the next day.
Holy shit.
But of course I wasn't eighty nine and either for sure.
But the drugs started being a real prop down there, right, Yes, what year was that? Was that?
The really the heroine got to be up upper seventies into the eighties. And the first one I remember down there were overhauling in the apartment and I found these two bags look like straw and stuff like that. It was marijuana. Of course, what the hell did I know at that time? And I gave him to the cops. Guy said later the fimers, what don't you give the cops the marijuana for? I don't know what this stuff was,
but I don't know. Oh, in the eight I was out of there by this time, but Vinnie Romeo was
a lieutenant. He was fireing one to eleven. Then came back and he was a lieutenant eleven truck and then the captain of twenty eight and him and the captain of the truck painted a double yellow line across the street from the firehouse to tene minutes across the street, and that's where the heroin addicts used to line up, and they'd be wandering over there and stuff like that, and when the dealer came to sell it, the deal would blow a whistle and they'd all line up by.
And the police knew it, but they knew where the heroine was, so they figured they had to control. And it got so bad in front of the firehouse the truck over to the engine put an easy chair, and one year they had two hundred and eighty seven overdoses in that chair oly ship. And that was before we had the ambulances. So that the other ambulances would give the fireman some kind of shot to give these guys, and the fireman would give them a shot and revive them.
One day there was a relocating truck company there and they had one of these incidents take place and they gave the guy the treatment and ship like that, and when eleven came back, they said to him, Yeah, we just had this guy overdose here and then we did this and we're going to the Lieuten's gonna put him for a unicitation the hell out of yesterday. The other part was, of course the engine had what the hell did we record? Were used to switch companies change interchange truck.
The truck didn't have it, but eighteen truck had it. A little side store. I'm getting on too, uh. They used to interchange Hunt eighteen interchange with eight truck, so eight truck would come over invariably they'd hit cars there with the things, and the people always figured it was eighteen truck. They said, no, the eight was on it,
you know, naturally. But anyway, our interchange company was thirty two engine and the first night we went down there, the refrigerator had a lock on it, so chauffeur went out got the boat cutters. I was ended that one, but it was also if you had twenty runs before midnight, I had to call the deputy and tell them and
we went interchange then. So the trick there was I had all the slips of the runs under my tide pin and I just didn't put them in a book till three in the morning, so we didn't have to go, so that was good. But every other night you did have to go, and that was there's always a tussle who wanted to stay back and oh my god, and when we were interchanging with them, we used to have to go. The World Trade Center was being built, so
on multi unit drill. Since we were an interchange company for thirty two engine we had to get down and do the drill, which was very interesting of course, and they would put us in the basement and we'd get down a huge earth ramp and the brakes squeal and the whole time getting down there. One time down there we found the leak in the settling tank, so that
was something but interesting. We'd get down there, there were cement trucks down there were just the barrel and then they'd make the cement and then as the taller they got, they'd hoist the cement truck up. Also, just the crazy stuff you got to see was just good, you know, very very interesting for sure. But they also the Lower east Side, as busy as we were, we never got
the trucks, never got adaptive response either. And the the one the confinement they used to get the one tour of overtime, our guys would have to go to the Bronx for it. We didn't couldn't fill our own companies or how to go elsewhere. Just an odd paperwork thing, that type of thing, and we also didn't get. At one time they set up a thing for the busy companies to give him an administrative aid, which we didn't get. So what I did. We had a guy had a lot of trouble at home with his wife and stuff
like that. So I called the battalion. I said, Chief, I'm following the orders on't that's paid circle here, So I want to let you know what administrative aid we have. So I gave him the guy's name and Chief said, okay, okay with us. So the guy worked administrative aid until his wife got better and heat come in sometimes. But then make a long story short, you just how to deal with the situation and it worked.
You know, the guy one of the brothers.
Yeah, that's all taking care of him in this case. What a perfect solution. But somehow the Lower East Side well as busy as we were. Of course we were the business and the whole division just the way it was. But we'd been on all the BI programs and tips programs and stuff like that, and you had to do the paperwork.
So Chief, how did you I wanted to ask you this before.
How was it coming back as a boss to the company that you just came out of as a fire fireman?
Was it a little weird initially?
Was it?
Did you take some time to get you.
Know, that's a good question. It was a very good question. If I one come back. One of the guys in the truck, Bob said what he said, Jack, what the hell are you coming back here for? He said, I said, Bob, I like it here, you know, I like all you guys it. I was straight as an arrow, as a fireman and stuff like that. I would do the committee work, I do this, and you know, stuff like that. And
I was accepted better that way, no particular problem. And it was I guess I was lucky because I took over this senior group of guys that I had worked with as firemen, and it was okay, But actually everything was loo. It was never jack.
It just yeah. They never put you in a position to make it feel like that.
Like I say, with most things in the fire department, I always believe that too. Everything works out of mutual respect. It just works no matter what. So yes, go ahead.
Had you been studying this whole time for captain while you were there?
Or yes? I did. And I'm trying to think how that took place. I didn't come out on top of that list whatever. I guess it didn't study enough, but it finally it come out more.
Than three jobs at night. How the hell are you going to study?
Yeah didn't you didn't? Oh?
And I used to go route a quick look at this?
Yeah, all right, four to carry them all.
And I was a smoker there too, so when I was working, i'd smoke two packs a day. All we run you a little cigarette, right, that's all salam and you come back. Yeah.
Uh.
Anyway, I did that, got on the list, got promoted, and I got assigned to In fact, when I got a sign promote to lieutenant was the first time I worked on Staten Island. I became a covering relief lieutenant on Staten Island in my old neighborhood where I grew up. Was two of the houses or tow of the companies. But that was the only time I worked on Staten Island.
But when I got promoted the captain, I was a relief captain in Coney Island, forty third Battalion, and I had six of the companies and I loved them there. That was a funny place. One house was superb, the next one was real good, and the other one was okay.
But it worked. And that one.
Oh.
By that time they had the Arizano Bridge, so.
That makes life easy.
Yeah, And depending what company I was working then, with the guys, I could even get in the car pool or drive them back and forth. So Coney Island was pretty close from Staten Island, so that worked out good. And I was covering there and I moved up. That was the when I moved out of Staten Island, moved up to Bloomingberg in New York seventy two and the last tour I worked was as a relief captain in
Coney Island. The next Saturday, I got assigned to the fifth division covering So what a lucky break that was too. Staten Island was over one hundred miles to go from Bloomingburg. Saying that too when I was a little ten.
Lucky my little Volkswagen, right, yeah, yeah, you kept a few and who were doing straight tours then too, So yeah, that was that was that was tough.
But at any rate, Let's see I got assigned to the fifth Division. I'm covering up there, and Chief Fogy called me, uh, Jack Fogary he was a captain of twenty eight years before I was there, and uh and then oh yeah, the connect well, he was a deputy then in the first and he'd come over for his visits and he treated the engine like the super guys and he'd pick on the truck.
There were professionals. That's why.
Yeah, that's he said, Jack, I want you to come down at the headquarters. He was in the assistant to John o'hagen in the Chief Department's office, and they had an office in there they called Pandora Planning in Operations Research, And he said, why don't you come down here and work here for six months and you know, do something.
And what we were doing there were rewriting bulletins. They rewrote the bulletin on tower ladders, which I never worked in the tower ladder, so I wasn't going to continue too much. Except we used to call up the tower ladders and ask him what should we put in this thing? And we did all you init circulars stuff like that, and then luckily he said, I was there for six months.
Thirty truck was well. I used to have to take the train from Middletown to headquarters and I leave the house at five thirty in the morning, get home seven thirty at night, and my wife had all the kids waiting for dinner.
So he wrote some of those books, chief, Yes, yeah.
I wrote one a little bit later. I'll tell you too.
With that.
What happened there? The captain of thirty truck, Joe Pettitt, was getting promoted, and yeah.
There you go, a.
What chief Fog, I said, I've been here six months now, jeep, He said, the thirty truck is opening up, and I checked up on it and he said nobody put in for it. So Fog he called a transfer desk and Maddy Hennessy was over there, who also retired from a was a fireman hunting five truck also, But anyway, by the way, one hundred and five truck, as you know, that's the west point of Brooklyn, right and eleven truck, which I didn't know at the time because things were different.
Now their name they're twenty eight and eleven is House of Rules and the senior guys run the house from the kitchen, and the offices run everything upstairs. And it works like a charm. Isn't that amazing? House of rules in all this and everybody had to contend to it. But anyway, he said, okay, I'll let you go, and I got the thirty truck. When I was there, Bill Fien was the captain of fifty nine engine and we were ProBiS together too, and personal friends. So that worked
out good. Except one day Fogarty came up. I don't know what I think it was, coming up just to see him and I and whatever was going on. He didn't like, so he got the tools and he said, next time I come back up here for a visit. If things aren't better, you two are gone. But what the what the hell?
Oh cool? Could you imagine?
Let me let let's turn back the clock going to thirty truck in nineteen seventy three. No, could you even comprehend what the hell was going on.
In nineteen seventy three, could you do? I can't even imagine something.
Yes, the buildings started getting built bigger. They had a lot of MDA's there. They were, I would say, even in the Lower east Side had plenty of chefs and tenements and stuff like that. In fact, we had one chef the guy was growing chickens on the Lower east Side, but off of his fourth floor window he put a platform. But in Harlem, I have to say they had more chefts than anything holy with old lord teneants, four story
buildings with chaffs. I had one fifth alarm there. It in bulowed three old law tenements because the middle old Lord tenement had the fire and went out the windows and then across the shafts, and then it burned across the hallways to the other one. And that those chefts, it was like holy shit. And while I was there, they had two of them, two fifth alarms, and those guys were good. We ran with twenty eight and sixty nine most of the time.
And who was that.
Hlton Harlem Hill, Yes, I know, thirty was the Harlem zoo and I tried to get a change. Different guys there. We're talking about twenty six truck was the fire factory, so we're thinking about this and shit like that. And I said, somebody come up with we'll be the fire machine. But it didn't work. They still kept for sure, but it's in the sidewalk out in front of the when I put in new doors. We put it in his cement to fire machine. But it never worked. But tough engines up there, I'll say that.
I mean.
You might know Marty Coin. He was one of my lieutenants, Dick Gilroy, Bob Conrad. I can't give you all these different names of Maddy Baker and the engine and Tom Farady, but you have to say we were second do a lot. So we'd go up and sixty nine would have the hallway saying a new law tenement and something like that. You always he felt confident going above. They weren't going
to back out until we came down. Never got stuck, never got stuck that way, got stuck other times where you'd come out the front windows onto the aerial, but the chauffeur would have the area lop.
It just it just worked, you know, it's they were going to burn up. They were not. They were never backing out of there.
Yeah, I was working there one day when they had the fire with Fitzpatrick and Frisbee died and we were a special call. I guess after the second something like that. I got up and we got up on the roof just after the rope broke, and there was nothing to do, of course, But what a tragedy like that, you know it was? I think it was. I'm not mistaken. There were seven law seven story New Law tenements, good buildings,
but just too much fire and they got stuck. And when I work, when I used to do a lot of overtime in twenty six truck, I worked a lot with Fitzpatrick. He was another tough guy, was like a built like a fire plug and tough as nails, and he was the guy going over and it just broke.
Never come up with an answer to that, and in fact, Beakman was I'm trying to think that Beatman was commissioner then or chief of department or something like that, because him and senior Brouthers took the blame for that rope too, and had nothing to do with it.
Really.
But in retrospect.
I mean, what are you going to do at that point?
The fire a huge tragedy.
Yes, yeah, that's it.
How was the fire, dude? If they compared to twenty eight eleven, are you're doing more or less?
There was? It was less, but there was a lot of it and serious fires with because in the tenements on the lower east side, each floor was like a platform if you could get in there, which the guys did my professionals.
Oh h h.
Let me tell him how did that happens?
I don't know.
That's uh something. I have him go out and come back in.
Yeah, let me see you just checked his No, he's not muted, jack, can you hear us? Your your volumes out?
Maybe go out and come back real quick, right, I'd try to warn him ahead of time if we had a problem to go right to his phone.
So it's got his technical advisor there.
Yes, that guy is on point.
Wow, this guy is something. Huh us.
She's still got a nice out of hair.
Look, yeah, come back, come back so anyway.
Wow, I'm been trying this.
Yeah, he's good.
Remember I can't even remember anything. I don't remember. He's like Bob Bob bill Bags.
The headquarter. Is this guy was there?
That guy?
And I can't remember what I did yesterday? Oh my god, it's crazy.
The probably not much because that's like every day, right.
It's amazing what they remember. I mean, it's like it just happened yesterday for them. Crazy.
Oh that you could tell he's that's there, and it's branding and what else you can tell.
He's very calm, very calm, must have been what they said.
Let me see what they said about listen.
Chief Daily said he was one of the most influential guys in his career. And uh, Keith Dickolo I'm going to bring up now when he comes back on. He said he was one of his favorite guys. Really calm under pressure.
He's back.
Oh we are kind of I'm on the telephone, all right, gotcha?
What do you get a chance to turn the sideways?
Ah, that's much better.
There we go and then we can hear you.
Yeah, if your nose, but that's good.
All right, you look good there.
Remember I was a professional at one time. Try don't forget that.
You didn't lose too much of your touch.
I'll tell you that was uh was a chief was Keith nicolelo was he your proby.
Nicole was a proby there, Yes, just as I was getting from. I only worked with him a very very short time. He come up from thirty nine Engine or some place. He came three engine, thank you, and yes he was good as goal to of course, and talk about mister personality with everyone. He got off and he talked to everybody, and.
I used to.
I used to meet him up here at at Chinese restaurant. He's come with his daughter and my wife and with Chad away the whole time. Yeah, what a what a great personality.
Yeah, he's up there with I. There's only a few guys who loved the job, like everybody loves the job. Yeah, actually loves the job, right, he really loves the job. He can't stop talking about it or doing it. Even now. He's still running around all over the country doing stuff I forget.
Yes, the Jersey show, you know it looked great too. He's in great shape, he's all tanned up, he's got the hang on, he's got the girlfriend.
We're talking before too again with the chief foguny. When I was a captain of thirty he had me, boy, he didn't have me. He asked me he detailed me to the rock to help write firefighting Procedures multiple Dwellings, and that was an experience in itself. Wow. We used to go into the Bronx to watch the vacant buildings that burnt down. We'd leave the rock, the rock and goes look at him to see what we could put
in his bulletin. But the section in there on fireproof multiple dwellings, which are the projects that considered like that. I wrote that whole action myself on every experience that we did on Lower east Side. So that right and there, that's where I got it from.
I learned it.
I'd learned it there, you know what. I and the other guys were on it, Joe short and trying to think of the assistant chief's name. But anyway, we wrote it there and I forgured.
I'm still going today, Chief, Yeah, I guess we're still studying that today.
Yeah.
In fact, there was only one change made when we wrote it, and that came from Joe Callen because inadvertently we put in a wrong picture and Joe knew everything. And one day he finally I was a chief already by this time, and he said, he said, Jack, you know there's something wrong with that one picture. And I knew it myself, but I said, yeah, so he sending her. He changed that. That was the only change he made out of that whole bulletins and all. That was just practical fire duty and stuff.
You know.
It's the guys you listen to and taught you this, and uh, you practice it yourself and.
You did it.
Yeah, gotta be proud of that. That that's I mean, that's a pretty good legacy.
That was a good one, Yes, I have to say that. And also another nice thing up there in thirty when I got promoted the chief. Oh, I'm back on together.
Good thanks.
Let me turn this off to him.
Nice to have a technical adviser. Yeah, right, us.
Did we get rid of this guy? All right? Are you there? Oh? We have to go back to the phone.
I heard him.
Yeah, we don't got him.
No, I don't get him.
But you still have the phone hooked up.
You know it was here in the phone.
That's what were his.
Computer, Mike must because I don't on my end.
He's uh, Mike, everything is uh is there automatically reducing can check this echo there pack If not, go back to your cell phone. Okay, we'll just keep you on the cell phone.
It's all okay, wow.
This okay, there we go. All right, we'll try what I have to do, all.
Right, Just one day, I wanted to note the last night I worked as a captain in thirty and the next day I was gonna work my first tour in the fifty fifth Battalion. Bill Moore got everybody up in the morning out for fireman's roll calls to wish me well. I thought that was pretty damn nice.
So yeah they did.
They did all kinds of good things up there. And Mother's Day they give flowers to all the women on the street. And I think I said to the numbers guy who lived up the street, and his name, oddly enough, was Sonny Chance. So and one one of the firemen hit one time and we had a tremendous dinner that night, and then the week his all his money was gone. So but but he enjoyed himself. But getting back, there's plenty of plenty of fire duty we had up there, and serious fire duty.
Sure, But to learn chief, I want to ask you, I could have my years off here. I'm not sure. But when you were in eleven truck, I don't know what years that? Yeah, they wrote lattice three, But the guy from twenty six truck wrote lattice three right.
Yeah, that was John O'Rourke and O Rock. Here's a good one too. I'll interrupt you for a minute. The original Multiple Dwelling Fires bulletin was written by Mike de Late who was the captain then of Ladder thirty and one of his firemen was John. Was it o'rock that wrote the lattest three? General? He was his fireman there, and then later on when he became the captain of twenty six truck, he wrote latters three?
Right?
What year is that about?
What?
Before you were in eleven truck?
Was it?
There was?
No, it was after I was in eleven truck.
So how would you guys operate when you were eleven truck? Did you have your own way of operating?
Yeah? Pretty much that They all all the trucks worked pretty much the same with we had five guys. Getting back to twenty eight engine that sometimes there with my professionals, we had six guys and we're first due. I'd get off the ridge that no, mask, I didn't have to ran up the stairs and the sixth man when they finished or almost finished, were stretching the line. We had two of the big scots. He'd put his gut on and bring one up for me.
That's service bro.
Yeah, and he he was a professional, the one guy that we made a terrific rescue up there. Of course we beat We beat the truck in all the time, you know.
Of course you did.
Just want just.
Want to say that.
I just want to say what professionals do.
That's what professionals do. Nothing like being a lieutenant in the first do, having being first do so often. I'm telling you what a what a great position that was. I'll tell you, wow, you're there were all the time right up.
There, because the truck has to close the door. I used to love that take it off until I was in the truck. I did the same thing.
I went to the truck in the same house and then I had to wait that and would take off and they'd be two blocks away before I we got there.
We owed another thing we had there too. Herbie Geiser was a dispatcher, a real super guy. And he had a brother, George Isser was a chief and the three five later. But anyway, all of a sudden, one day we don't we all with the engine, always be going out the engine only i'll sure crap whatever like that. One day it turned out to be a five to seventh signal. The truck had to go, and I called up dispatched. I said, is that something new we're gonna have?
I said, I didn't hear anything about this. I don't know who started it, but I don't know how extensive it was. But every run the engine had no matter what it was, the truck went with us, whether they whether they liked it or not, they were they were signed to go. Yeah, And twice we got them that we got in first, of course, and uh, I'd give it ten seventy five and the truck would say, ah shit. But just it just so many different things down there too,
And like Herbie iSER too. We were going up to seeing fifth one time, or seeing seventh, and they called me on the radio and he said that twenty eight take a look into sixth Street when you go by, and see if you see anything. Sure enough, the fire was in sixth Street. How the hell Herbie now it? I have no idea, but it was out the windows on sixth Street.
So, but of course dispatch worth his weight in gold man.
Oh, and we had Bill Trainer in the Bronx was just as good. These these guys knew where everybody was at any time. I remember when I was a chief there forty four with Mike Finer and his crew. They always were out drilling and there I went to visit him just during the week. They would be doing something and they had all the crap laid out on Shakespeare
Avenue and they got a call for a relocation. So I just called the dispatcher would radio wharf or speak mixer off and said, can you do something here because forty four has all this stuff in the street. He said, just say no problem.
That was the end of it.
They canceled it and they got another guy to relocate. That's all. So yes, I'm trying to think of so many different things happened in these places. It's just remarkable that and everything just worked, that's all. It just worked. The guys love to in the engine too.
Uh.
The guy with the nozzle would have his helmet on and his coat on top of the nozzle because who were on the back step still then? And uh, guy coming in for the night tour, he just take the guy's helmet and coat off, put it on the side and put his own on there, and we get to run the guy who originally who was there, say, what the hell happened to my stuff? Maybe maybe that's why we all have those dreams where we can't find our gear.
Wow.
Wow, I told you I had them all the time. Yeah, where's my health?
Don't fit?
Yeah?
Uh? Anyway, let's see.
You got to work in three really busy places in three different boroughs.
Yes, yeah, three times in Manhattan, uh, sixty five, twenty eight and eleven, and then thirty. And then when I went to the Bronx. I used to always kid the guys to these professionals. But late later on we were out of there. I said, I got my back laureate in eleven and the rescue two and sixty five engine, I got my masters in twenty eight engine, and I got my PhD as a chief in the Bronx. The Bronx with those age buildings, that that really opened stuff up.
And I listened to everybody there. I listened to any fireman who was busy there and stuff to tell me what the hell goes on with these age buildings here, with the vertical voids and stuff.
And I was up there.
One time. I was an all hands chief and the deputy said, go up and find out where forty two engineers. So I had my mask. I always had the mask, and I'd go up the stairs and forty two engine line went up and I followed. It was smokey, but he could with the line. That just followed it through. And I saying, what the hell could these guys be. I don't know why they weren't answering on the handy talkie,
but they weren't. But anyway, I'm crawling along. I go into a closet and I keep going and I'm coming out of another closet in the next apartment, and that's where they were. It was two neighbors or relatives lived.
In through they broke through the apartment.
Yeah, they just broke through there. Holy shit, how did it? And then you say to thisself, how did these guys find their way through these places?
Forty two engine that's a good engine man.
Oh yeah, yeah, good good house. That's where forty four went to when they were remodeling Mars Avenue. And I used to always say, I love Mars Avenue. I'll tell you how I got there. I was covering there, and I went to a third alarm somewhere further north, and our good guy, Maddie Farrell was a city wide chief and he's there and I come in and I knew him in when I was in the fourth Battalion. He came there covering and he just stood out, another guy
that you would just love, you know. And he's there and I'm I'm taking up I guess, and he says to me, Hey, Jack, what are you doing up here in the bronx? And don't ask me why he remembered my name. I have no freaking idea except you know the memory that guy has. And I did see him on the getting Salty. But anyway, I said, no, I'm up in the bronx. I said, I'm waiting around. I'm trying to get to the seventeenth Battalion. I said, but there's going to be two openings, and I'm not senior.
He said, Jack, we decide who goes where. A month later on at the Department Order that was with McGrath.
The scene.
Luckily, the two with Haalian chiefs on the deputy's list weren't too far apart, so Tom McGrath came maybe, uh, two months later. But also when I was in forty four, I loved it there too. I used to always say Mars Avenue was my second street in the Bronx. They were, even though second street had no chief. But uh, just the attitudes and things like that. And forty four truck was the first towel ladder in the Bronx, which I never knew.
Yep, you worked with uh, you work with George Daily up there?
Oh yeah, talk about a funny guy. George Daily. Yeah, he told me sometime one time. He said, we're driving up the concourse, he said, and the people were like daring you to cross the street and always said, all you do. I don't know what he was telling me for because I wasn't driving. He said, I just don't look at him. I just keep going. He said. They stopped.
Shit to eat the car either.
What we talk about a funny guy.
Oh man, I was related him to marriage actually.
Oh no kidding.
Yeah, yes, Queens. Oh he's in Queens now. Yeah.
Yeah, he's a lieutenant now. But he spent most of his career as a fireman up in forty four.
Oh yes, yeah, yeah, the day everybody it was just the chiefs were good.
Oh.
I want to tell you too. When we finally got the women in the job and eighty two, I guess it was. Uh we got Carol Boykin's and uh she came and I'm saying Jack Snider. He was a battalion commander. He had six good daughters. I have five daughters. Divine had two daughters. So I guess we figured, I guess we're not gonna have too much trouble here for that,
and uh, everything got resolved out. And uh, the biggest lieutenant in the engine, Tom Latka, he took her under his arm, and everything eventually just worked out beautifully.
So it seems to happen wherever you go. I don't know how this happens with everything just happens to work out. It flows.
You know what he said before, you know, that's what happens if you know, you respect. I think.
What was good there too. Of course, the department did nothing about the bathrooms yet at the time, were you there, Bill? But when she came, yea did what did she get assigned there when.
You were there? No, she was already there able Okay, when.
They we came. The city, of course did nothing about the bathrooms and stuff.
Like that.
So the chiefs decided, well, we'll just let her use our bathroom because we had a separate office and stuff like that. But in the meantime they the finement resolved it, that's all, and they put locks on the doors and stuff like that. So eventually it worked out very nicely, and Tom Lattet took her right under his wing and Greg Greg grew along with the hose line and she performed.
So it's surprising, chief because that's really not a sort after firehouse, you know, yes, not the least. I can't I can't imagine that happening over there, you know. Really, they guys taking care of business.
So many, so many. Oh here, we have a dog there, Rocky Salad shoot board the dog in and he was a wonderful dog. He never did anything in our parking lot. He'd always go elsewhere to go to the bathroom and stuff. By that, and uh me and the aid were driving on College Avenue one day and I look out the window and on the sidewalk is our dog, Rocky. So I opened up the window, I call him. He came right over to the car. He got out, open up the back door, he jumped in, sat on top of
my gear. We got back to the firehouse and back and then there's the real Rocky in the firehouse. It had to be his son.
I looked just like him. Huh you got a couple of kids. Yeah, none that I some that I don't know about. Forget about.
There was There were so many great guys there. I'm telling you, it's it's hard to mention the different names and all like that.
I told you we were talking to the pre show. I came on with Brian Fox. He went to forty. I went to ninety two first, I think, and then he ended up going to the truck.
Yes, yep, he was good. I'm going to say something about that later. One time I was out of there and I was coming to visit and in the morning and they had a job and he made a rescue and uh, I'm trying to it doesn't matter what. Yeah, what street to okay? And later on somebody said something to him about being in there and stuff, and Brian
said it was alright. He said, if I got stuck, I knew somebody was coming after me, and that it is one of the things I have to say later, No matter what you knew, somebody would be coming, that's for sure. There was no and we all felt that way. There was no trouble at all. Yeah, it was just so many good things there, and learning about the size of these H buildings and all, there was something there too. I had my own idea of this later on, after I learned a lot of stuff, and of course you
learned this by listening to the senior chiefs. And if we had a fire in an H building and it was the third floor or below of say a five or six story H building, before I got out of the car right given all hands, extra engine and truck, it was on the fourth coming out the windows on the fourth floor to the top, I'd give a second alarm before I got out of the car. And the stretches that like ninety two and sixty eight did up, they're like nothing, twelve ninth stretches.
And then find the right.
Stairway in the building to make sure you were going to be in the right wing at the time, or or hope the truck found it. So but the guys just did it, tell you, honest truth. Never saw a short stretch. I saw a plenty of hose, but there were no short stretches, And they were long, and that was if when you found the hydrant, of course, and then you'd have to find out when you got into the lobby of some of these places, what wing am
I going up to? And with all the hills in the bronx too, we'd be coming down, like say one six seventh Street looking at Shakespeare, which a hill, and if you saw the fire coming out of the windows there, uh, right away we would designate the fireflow would be whatever number it was from the roof down, because in the front it'd be completely different from right in the backyard. It might be eight stories.
Eight stories, you might have five in the front.
Yes, And I learned that two of these things that were like eight stories, the top six stories were fire non fireproof, but the sixth floor, I mean say the well, say the first, second and third floor on the hill, they were fireproof ceilings because you can only go so many feet without it being fireproof. So that was that was interesting and paid off many times too, because from the front of the building you think you had a five story h building. And uh, the education they're listening
to the you had to listen to everybody. The officer would tell me stuff. The chief did you see this? Did you see that? And you'd have to listen, because honestly, I didn't know. You know, I never saw these buildings before in my life.
You've seen every type of borrow and building before.
Well, Chief, did you? You did? B I?
Right?
How's your feelings on b I. You can get that information from b I too, or maybe even Steles. Won't you take on something.
That was not one of my I think the fire part of it was my highlights. The fire prevention was I could check the books, and luckily Tom McGrath was the BI chief.
So exactly we need we need the one guy Fishers, my b I guy.
That was just all right, chiefs. So now I got a question for you. Good you become a chief. Hopefully your dad was still around. You look at him and you say, hey, pop, you got any information for me? Now that I'm a chief and you were a chief?
Did he give you anything? Who was that? You're dad?
My father?
No?
Well, oh wait, I have to take that back. He was in Florida by the time I became a chief.
So all right, all right, we'll let him slide. We'll let him slide him. Uh yeah, that was That's funny.
But at one time I failed the deputies test and I told him I failed and he said, well, did you study? I said no, He said, well what do you expect.
That was? That was easy.
Being a battalion chief was to me, well, first two engine officer that I was that you couldn't beat that. But h being a battalion chief was superb, superb. Yeah, I have to say I loved that job.
I was going to say, what was your favorite looking back at your career, what was your favorite spot?
Your sweet spot like that?
You know, obviously there's a lot of sweet spots, but where where was the one that you if you had to.
Go back, where would you go back?
Well, if I was young enough, I'd go back to twenty eight engine if I if I was older, I'd be a chief in the Bronx. But I have to say both of those fireman, I love being too. I like being a captain. But uh, the first two engine and the battalion chief in the Bronx they hard to beat for sure. And luckily too. When I was a chief in the Bronx, the Rescue three was still in Manhattan, and they there were a lot of when they'd committed the Bronx for all the fires and stuff like that.
There was always competition and jealousies with a certain lot of companies and stuff like that. So it worked out good because I was the rescue come over, and when they come over, I would I enhance their position.
They were.
They were there to help me, and I knew it being in a rescue company. But as you know, most other superior officers were never in rescue companies to even know them. They they just knew they could do fantastic jobs for them. But I knew, damn well they'd be there to help me and bail me out if I needed it. For sure. They were.
They were good.
If we had one guy in rescue three Ray Phillips, he's another gonzo.
I remember Ray. I remember Ray.
When things were under control, they'd come out and get ready to take up, and he come up behind me, Take my helmet off, put it on his hat, put his hat on, helmet on my head, and then he start barking orders to everybody. Okay, you can take up rescue.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The things were just so good, you know. It's you learn so much stuff by listening to these guys, that which we all should. Of course, And another thing I learned in the Bronx Chief I finally I've used to be ABC many times when I was a Captain of the thirties, stuff like that. But being the real chief, I learned, I'm watching Jack Schneider and Don Devine and other senior guys. I used to see Joe de Bonardo all the time, and Phil Phil Burns and stuff like that.
And I realized, I'm not stretching down the hallway anymore, and I'm not forcing door pulling ceilings and stuff like that. My job was the fireman. They the fireman would make the rescues, they put out the fires, and I was just there. But my job really was there watching them. When they needed help, I'd get help. When they were ready to take up, I let him take up. And it was just I finally realized chief is a different job is And my guys all went home. They all went home.
And how lucky was I?
Huh, Yeah, yeah, I was gonna stay Chief. Jimmy Daily Chief Daily mentioned.
Something I saw. I know he was up there too with you. Yes he was.
I never knew how smart he was till he passed through. I didn't even know he studied and he probably didn't. He just had that memory.
Yeah, some guy's a wicked smot.
Everybody says it's good.
Another thing I learned too. I'll say it later too. Every tour I worked, I looked who was working in all the units that I would respond to on the first alarm, and I'd know what officer was working, and if it was a covering officer, I'd find out who the senior man was in that company. And it just made things so much simpler, just so, and the officers were good, the firemen were good, all that mutual respect. Oh.
I was there sixteen years. One morning, just once I had to go in the kitchen and said, hey, guys, how about if I be the chief today? And they were probably having a fit over no fires or something like that, you know, so they get a little crotchety.
But it.
Worked out like a job for sure.
Yeah, but sos, you got to tighten the bolt chief.
Oh yeah, I recently to do what you keep saying. Later, is that in your thing that you want to read to us?
Is that what you?
Oh?
Yeah, are you ready for that?
Now?
I'd like to hear it. You're piquing my interest with all these laters.
So okay, yeah, that's true.
We're gonna give you. We're gonna give you a full screen, right guns, Yeah, you're right.
We're doing the at that time.
This is the tip.
This is something else that he wants to read.
Right, okay, all right, you wanted the tips that you wanted to want what you want to do first, I'll do the tips first, because very quickly.
Okay, don't do nothing yet. We gotta do a little intro here we go.
We gotta give you the introduction, all.
Right, tip, wait one more second, alright, chief.
And then you watch.
Okay.
For the engine companies and guys, of course, everything was always to listen to the senior guys in the offices because they've been through it all and all you have to do is listen to them and follow it. But the engine that said, when you're crawling down on the hall, get out of the hallway, because that's the flu that if this thing blows back on you, you're gonna be
right in a flu. And one of the other things was for the truck company, forcing the door always looked behind the door because of the victim was there trying to get out their front door and collapsed. He'd be behind the door that you're forcing open, So always check on that. And I learned that with two truck. One time when I was a Probian sixty five engine, I was up. I must have been detailed, and the guy forced the door and went right behind it and found somebody.
It was like, Oh, I guess, so we'll listen. We'll listen to this guy for sure.
Okay.
The other thing is it might be a little hokey to some people, but I always have this thing about the fire department family, and that's sick. I always figure that the chief is the grandfather in the family. He's generally older, experienced, worked in many areas and firehouses, and it's hard to imagine, well, I'm looking here, like the grandfather being like Mike McParland or Tommy Jensen or Richie McVay, guys like that. Then the captain would be the father
of the house. Just like at home. He sets up the rules and standards, separates personalities. This is his firehouse, particularly if he's the engine captain and proud of it, and guys like that would be like Dennis McCool and E. J. Tierney, Dick Collins and Steve Louisey stuff like that. Lieutenants were your uncles, especially the senior lieutenants. And we had one Dick Gilroth for sure in thirty truck. He was a fireman in fourteen truck and then a lieutenant in thirty
for over thirty years. Anyway, senior lieutenant is the guy, the perfect go between the captain and the members, and like Bob Conrad would do that, and Jimmy McCluskey and Marty Coin, a sweetheart of a guy. Then the senior firefighters, they were the big brother, the senior firefighter, respected for his status and influence. He runs everything outside of the office. And you'd have guys like Tom Flaherty, Pete Carroll, Matty Baker,
stuff like that. Then the regular firemen, they were all the brothers in the family and they were looking out for all and each other. The proby he was the baby brother. He was protected, helped, taught by all and watched out for and was taught the traditions and history of that firehouse. All the other fire all the other firemen, they were like from other units. They were like cousins.
And whoever you met covering and stuff like that, or interchange in overtime, they were cousins, and everything works because of mutual respect. And this is the important part any firefighter, whether you're detailed on overtime or a covering officer, they're guests in our firehouse, which is our home, and they are relying on us all the time. After they leave,
they carry and spread our reputation. He was a good one too in the Bronx where the guy promoted from Rescue two is a covering lieutenant and when he covered in ninety two and forty four, he made up the thing that they were the crown jewel of the Bronx. That was a good reputation to spread. Huh. And the other thing would be our saving factor is whenever we perform the jobs and or you get jammed up or trapped, we always know someone or more are coming to get
us out. And when typically wherever you go, you're always asked where you worked, and when you say, in this case, I'm going to say fifteen nine or thirty or twenty eight and eleven, ninety two and forty four, the atmosphere just gets better. And when I got promoted at BC, I went to five to five Battalion, and of course the guys asked you where you worked, and I said, well, I just got promoted from thirty truck.
That was the end of it.
That was nobody asked anything. I was the chief. It justotes. But you know that yourself.
We all do.
And anyway, one last thing is a quote from Oscar Wilde and it's experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward. Okay, now that he wrote that in the eighteen hundreds, and my sister told me that one, but I had to write it down.
That was that was some quote.
But anyway, I think that's all I have to say.
Wow, that could be up there, Kobe, that's in the top five.
I think that last quote, what was it? Could you say that last quote again?
They see it's a It's a good one, isn't it.
Yeah, it.
Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and lessons and and the lesson afterward. So you get the job first and then.
You have to learn from it after. That's great.
Exactly, that's great.
I guess just like the Fight Department, there's so many superior guys. It's I was trying to mention names because they make such an impression on you and like all you have to do is listen and then there they are.
You know it's now did you make up the whole thing with the family?
Was that?
Did you make that up?
That one?
I made up myself? Yeah, that was great too. Oh God, I'll send it to one of you. And the thing too. Also, no matter no matter where you work, whether it's in Brownsville or one hundred and three truck from first second, second section, everything was in the long run, mutual respect. It works.
That's all.
It just works. That's that's who we are. And also, uh get guys in the company, they get sick and tired of going out on gas leaks and water leaks and stuff like that. And I'd say, because you know they'd be grumping about it. I said, you know, every time they go out, you're really helping somebody, and they're calling us because they know we're going to come to help them. And so no matter what you want to say about it, we are the only help they get, and we get it every time, and we give it
to anybody, okay who they are. We never ask yeah, nope, nope, and uh last I'll let it go My last thing is my new nickname now is I should have said this years ago. My nickname is lucky Jack. They were Lucky Jack, Lucky Jack, and there.
I am, and you got and you got twenty five more years to go chief at.
Least at least.
I always like the backstep. That was a good one. Yeah, and they're carrying on and stuff like that. But the carrying on everybody everybody's yeah, everybody's inside now with the air conditioning or the heat, right, imagine those old days. I get those big responses and queens.
They go for miles and miles on the backstep.
I can't imagine backstep. And I always got to kick out of the ladder companies, particularly with the windchild wiper on the inside any outside because there.
Was no cover. So where did you stop smoking?
Oh? I stopped smoking when I was a captain of thirty truck. I got hypnotized and Jimmy Harrison and the engine I went for hypnotism down by two truck and the gal who gave it it was a group of us and she said, if you smoke again, you're really going to be in strong And for some reason I gave mine up. Jimmy didn't. He smoked again, but then he went back a year later and gave up after that. Yeah, your son's on the job too.
Yeah, what the smoke lucky strikes? While were you smoking?
Camel?
I smoked the Alpine mentalated when my brother and I were kids. We had to go on the bus and it was a block away from the house, and we get down there and we pick up all the butts because the people dropped them. Some of them were big, you know, when they got on the bus. And we buy the papers and we roll our own cigarettes.
Oh the memories as a kid, cheap out.
Sign the paper for eighty nine. Hell yeah, I'll sign the contract.
I'm happy I gave it up, for sure. But I have to say it was a good social thing too. I did enjoy smoking, for sure. Thank goodness.
We gave it up, don't Yeah, you just have to do you get an oral fixation. It's okay. Oh.
My my stepdad spoke five packs a day. He would just light one of them. All he had to do is like one in the morning. That was it. For the rest of the day, that he would go from one to the other.
I never heard I never heard that many in my life.
Yeah, and then he one day he just threw him out the window of his car and he never smoked again, really quit for thirty years. Yeah, he died when he was ninety ninety one, ninety two.
Oh, I'm glad I gave it up. So are you gonna guarantee I'm gonna.
Get to be ninety two, You're gonna get to be one hundred. We're gonna have you a hundredth anniversary. We're gonna have it on this show. Yeah, one hundredth birthday.
Oh, he's gonna make the boat trip now by then he'll forget.
Oh, yeah, he has to. He has to forget something for God's sake. This guy he hasn't know.
There was one guy he couldn't he could remember, and then he remembered like three sentences later. So I'm gonna give him a one hundred.
That the best thing for all of us was again I said it before that lucky Saturday when we took the entrance steps. Wow, how lucky who he became?
What a great what a great life? Huh?
I would easily say most of my friends are firemen, for sure. I go to lunches, I go to breakfasts and meetings and it keeps me going, for sure keeps me.
Now you get to come on our annual boat ride. We have all past guests come on a boat ride in August.
I didn't know you had that.
We have.
We have a friend who owns the John J. Harvey, and we go around in second week of August, all the year's past guests. We take a cruise around the Statue of Liberty, drink our faces off, and you know, eat some good food.
You're right, I did know about the Harvey.
Yes, very true.
Well, now you'll be on that boat cruise this year in August, so I'll.
Pick you up.
I hope they don't have a gold room, because when I was appropriate, I spent a week in Marine seven. Shine in the brass in there, shining brass here, buddy, Okay there, you're right that I forgot.
Go home and get your fucking shine box.
I hope.
Put the little patch, get the little patch from behind the gear. Yeah, it's not that bad.
Great show, great career, Chief, great insight, great memory, fantastic career. I really appreciate you coming on.
Chief.
You really did have a wonderful life.
Chief and two guys, Bill Haney and ron Cappell tought for me, wanted me to come on here a long time. You guys that I can't go on. I be too embarrassed and stuff like that. All of a sudden, here I'm telling them I'm gonna go. And Bill made the phone call.
So well, now you got to get another guy. We need another guy from your area. You go to these breakfasts, get us some more guests.
Going, I'm going to the breakfast.
You're going.
Yeah, okay, we'll look for you there and and see, yes.
Take phone numbers. Roough, get the phone numbers.
I'll get them.
Then we got to get a contract. Get the contract.
That Bill said he'll make sure we text him to you for sure.
All right, right right, Wilson, maybe Bill, what about Phil? Bill's coming on, Bill's coming on? Okay, all right, you got any shoutouts? Roof, I'm done?
Oh actually, hold on one second, I had. I did have a shout out for.
Okay, yes, hold on, hold stay stay uh stay right there, Chief, don't go away.
I give I'll give you a while. You gay guys gave me a retivation. When I come on, I come out of it. We had a second alarm on sixty seventh Street, and it's over. And I come out of the building and I get a standing ovation and my driver's there, and I said, George, what the hell is going on here? He said, Chief, you come out of the building. We can all go home now. Thanks.
Good thing you reminded me. Coop so Philly Peter Ruley a guy we worked with. He was at Squad two seventy. Uh he said, Louis, my Volley department is doing a fundraiser on October nineteenth. It's a firefighter captain from South Camden, North Carolina, who was in a uh call, was sustained when he was struck by a ball during a fire department softball game.
Could you imagine? No, he's his dad is an ex chief here in Massapequa.
He was his uncle is in latter one forty two who passed away from nine eleven cans.
I was wondering if you can mention it on the show. Uh, so I guess, uh nineteen.
Yeah, I'm gonna get the information on that and uh we'll put it in and maybe I'll post it up.
Yeah, we'll post it up on the fence. All right, excellent, all right, gee, thank you very much. It was it was an honor.
Well, thank you for that, and thanks for putting up with the stories.
Putting up love the stories because they love them. I love it.
Eat them up my face, hurt my face.
A little bit of wisdom is the best way to the best way to learn from an old fireman is to work with an old fireman.
I'm going to give you one one more last story. I just go ahead, my guys, totally. Early, if I saw a fire coming out the windows, I'd give a second right away. And if it was out, nobody mind coming, and I would look around, and if I saw companies there with Proby helmets on them, I get the lieutenant. I said, do you want to stay you guys, Let you guys go in and do the overhaul and then washing down and stuff. And every lieutenant took me up
on it. And in the meantime I could let the regular guys go.
Home too, So yeah, right, yeah, perfect.
It was a perfect thing for the Proby's. It's just like get a chance.
That's perfect. That's why they loved the chief. That's why they loved you.
There you go, Thank you, you got the Chief Hoff, Imber Chief Hoff. He was the chief of Chicago Fire Department.
I was watching.
He said, great, great show. Tell Louke appreciate these show.
So yes, I'm sure they do for sure.
Yes, Well right, guys, well we have Monday or Thursday.
Thursday, Thursday's leave chief.
Oh oh, that's this book right here. It is thirty fires you must know. So we're gonna bring a couple of guys out on at a time to tell these stories. Thirty fires you must know.
Thursday.
All right, God's good luck down there, stay dry.
Yeah, for sure, Florida, we're good now, man, we're good now. Part of it wasn't too bad. Yeah, people down.
There, Yeah they had the This was the worst tornado breakout for us ever, I think in history.
Couldn't believe the number of tornadoes.
Yeah, this was one of the Uh, this was definitely the worst list that usually it doesn't happen like that.
You know, it was usually happened too. But my wife says to you know, there could be tornadoes in a hurricane. I'm like, what are you talking about? This tornadoes and a hurricane. This tornados over the placebody. I feel like an asshole. Now I gotta go apologize for my wife.
What am I an asshole? One of my.
All right, alright, guys, thanks for the assistance over the bill, rather.
Bill, Thanks guys.
Don't don't hang up.
Don't hang up. All right, ladies and gentlemen, you know what I said. Stay load and go.
All right, everybody will see it the big one. Thank you again, cheap.
Sorry, a good night all of our brothers out there operating and sisters too. Sorry, be safe out there. Good night of one.
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