GETTIN' SALTY EXPERIENCE PODCAST Ep. 224 : CHICAGO FD | LT. BRETT SNOW

Disclaimer. We'd like to know before the start of this interview that the opinions about to be expressed by the guest of tonight's Getting Salty Experience Podcast are that of the guest and do not directly or necessarily reflect the views of the host of the Getting Salty Experience Podcast.

You're listening to the Getting Salty Experience Podcast.

Hello, Hello, Mike Cologne in the chat tonight. Welcome back to the Get Insulty Experience podcast, the only one of the best fine offs. Kitchen table to you, and we just beat the living piss out of Mike at the kitchen table in the bathroom about five minutes ago.

I gotta choke a hama.

But he told me when I take what test?

Is he taking.

Seat?

Pat?

I should choke up on my hammer. I was like, wow, you and me both sometimes twice today, Buddy were rapid firing on Mike about five minutes before he came in on the show.

How was he gone? How was it down? There was it chilling?

Look at the money falling out of his pocket.

I got my first stack. I got my first stack?

Is right?

Oh?

He came in, came in already.

How bad with the winds?

Uh, it wasn't too bad. We chased the storm up on the back side of it, but it wasn't Uh that area where we were, the onput of Florida isn't heavily populated, So keep.

Me your blow your head out of place at all.

Not at first, No, I mean afterwards. It was a hat for the whole week I was there.

Yeah, Now, were you running the whole thing? Were you in charge of that?

Uh? Me and one of the guys run the rescue squads, you know, basically coordinate all the the hasty searchers, the primaries and you know all that good stuff. Oh yeah, it sounds like I know what I'm doing.

But you know, I was talking to Louis today and he's like, man, he really misses that. He wish he could be back there chasing storms and.

Down there are going to get hit again.

Yeah, this was this was gonna be a bad one. Well, no, it's the storm surge was was bad. But this one has both. Now it's going to have the storm surge and the wind because it's.

Hit by your house all No, the.

West coast, I mean, we'll feel that, you know, the outer bands will make it to us and and whatnot, But Tampa Bay area, that Fort Wyer's Beach. I would check on Hank. You know those guys that are over over that way. You know they're gonna get the dirty side of the storm, which we all know is the south side of the storm.

It's dirty.

There's a dirty side. There's storm where all the ship is down, you know, the southeast side of If you look at the storm.

Learn something the worst part of the storm.

Right.

Oh, Rob wants you to talk about spaghetti dinner again.

Oh, doesn't want me to do you want to do that?

Let's say that. I don't be lading to do the commercials, so let's do the Let's do the two commercial. Actually, what we got one commercial?

We really have one.

We have a New Jersey Fire.

Yeah, we do New Jersey Fire. That's fine. Oh, so to a boys from New Jersey Fire.

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That's www.

Dot NJFE dot com.

Nice, So now you gotta play that, dude. The first time I watched that, my balls were like so cringey. They were like, let me get the fuck out of here, and they climbed back up into my stomach. They're like, ah, clingy, is it that bad?

No kid, we're talking about It's time to load upon those calls.

Make that loud of bro.

Cancer Awareness dinner that's Station eighty on October nineteenth from five. Okay, investis not that brat sum. It's time to load upon those calls. Our annual cancer awareness dinner that's Station eighty on October nineteenth from five to nine. You get pasta meeples, garlic, bread, and the drink, all for eight bucks.

No cat, why is.

The guy got.

It? Put it right back in there?

We're not terrible. All proceeds going to the University of Miami's Firefighter Cancer Initiatives. You'll gain major ooral points for attending the definitely passing the five chick common possibly pain a link to purchase a two.

I'm coach, he left no proms.

That's my favorite part is the slaps.

Slaps this right here, Oh it's the slaps. Why is he gonna have his bucker coat while he's cooking? Yeah, it goes against fucking he's not supposed to have down in the kitchen, bro, you know, for cancer too for advertising, you know, National Firefighter Safety, Health and Safety. Your guys wearing a fucking bucket jacket in the kitchen.

Well he started to go for the look. It's clean cleaning all the time, those things.

Yeah, well denty fire either. Oh but bump, that's good. How do if they want to go to this SPAGINNTI dinner, what do they gotta do?

They have to follow it on Instagram? You do a link? If not, you go to Cold Springs dot dot organ nick or scoose me dot gov.

We got up.

I don't know, I gotta I don't get those the information stats. But it's the local thing that we do to raise cancer for breast raise money for breast cancer.

Excuse me?

And uh, you know we feed about I think fifteen hundred meals. Get you know, the philosophicity why it's it ranges. You know, some years are busier some last year, I think it was the sauce. Our city manager makes the sauce. He was the x fire chief. And obviously we cook up the past. Everything's all prepped the day before. So when it comes.

Into meatballs, who makes the meatballs?

The old is the city manager and his crew is a bunch of people that come regularly that do.

All the t for that rough you know what I mean.

You know it's good stuff. It's a good little meal for eight bucks, no cat. You know it's one of those cap When when is that October.

Nineteenth that's coming up next week?

Right, that's coming up.

I mean, if I wanted a second place, did I get a second plate or you got a paid twice?

Yeah? Usually, like I said, the the trays and trays apasta that we have, and we usually have leftover. We usually send it to the stations afterwards. But yeah, it's a good thing.

You should have put the spoon right back in the SCE.

I thought about it. I was gonna scoop it myself. That was like takes I had to do to get the line down.

You know, you're a real natural and and the you know under the spotlight that comfortable there too.

Yeah, you got a stick shoved up at the back. I'm kidding, take it, take it easy, take you. We got another jagg off from Chicago from my chief mo is he in the chat.

Chief he didn't he better be in the chat. There's some of.

Them, somebody said, Momo. So he's got to be in here. He's too short. I can't even see him in the chat. There he is, Maurice. I love that guy. All right, bring your may rough, do your thing.

Bro, Baby, you're ready, Yes, sir, I'm ready, all right, coming to.

The stage all the way from Chicago, FD. Lieutenant Brett Snow.

There he is.

They make bats and balls in Chicago.

I'm here, ju.

What are they calling over there?

Something the busting balls? You said?

No, bats and balls?

What they call it?

We gotta get patriotic before we dive into Brett Snow. Get Brett Weir, I said, Brett Snow's career.

Here we go.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

We shot them two shows this week. Baby, look at us, back in the swing of things. But then, roof you will go. He'll be away soon.

Aren't you going away too?

Yeah? I'm going to Mexico coming up. But let's get Let's not talk about me a little. Let's talk about mister Snow.

Bro.

He said he grew up in a very rural area, killed a couple of swirls and rabbits, but nothing really to speaker very very quiet.

I'm hunting weapons.

I mean, you didn't enjoy sitting out like ten degrees up in a in a stand with snat freeze into your face for like ten hours. That's that you think?

I did not? You know, I did try it once, and.

Of course I fell asleep, right, Yeah, when I woke up, there was a deer like right there. Then you can't you can't stir right, so you get up and you try to get set, and then it took off run.

So that was it. It was done.

I tell us about when you grew up what you know, Yeah, Illinois, And yeah, it.

Was central central part of Illinois.

It's a small farmtown called Hayworth and it's in between Champagne or band of Bloomington, Normal and Springfield and those who are from Illinois. And the time that I was there, seventeen hundred population and.

Seventeen hundreds you almost knew everybody in town.

Basically knew everyone, right, and so which was great. I mean it's good and bad, right, it has its bad points. Everybody knows your whole life. But we knew everyone. We knew there were families. I had three, three sets of relatives that lived in that town. So we had our relatives had some pretty popular that were quite popular in

Is it's a bigger it's a bigger town, and.

Their schools are huge, and their schools are larger than the population.

Their schools are larger than the town I grew up in.

Right, So for me, it's really hard to you know, to understand that, you know, and.

How far were you away from Chicago where you were living.

It's it's around it's about three hours.

It's about one hundred and seventy five, one hundred and eighty miles south.

Now, you come from a big family, you know, immediate family.

My my family has just had one brother, huh yeah, and my mom had two two brothers, two sisters, and they had a large family, and we grew up with them right down this street, you know, black Top Road where I grew up and.

And grew up bayl and Hay and riding dirt bikes.

It's kind of bay Middle America, right roof, Yeah, we have shrinking. What did your dad do when he was in a fine.

And was he No, he he was in construction.

So he did construction and worked his way up to the general contractor. Then he had his own business for a number of years, general contracting.

To take.

I'm gonna take it shot out there.

Listen, dude, the snows were big name over there. Listen, I'm gonna build this building for you, but you're going to pay me three times what it's worked. All right, I'm.

Gonna sell, said Louis and Johnny over there to help you find your checkbook?

All right?

Yeah?

What what was the interest in becoming a five man? Where did that come from?

So my whole life I wanted to be in the military. That was my biggest That was my biggest dream is to be in the military and special forces. And and I had an uncle that I never had a chance to meet, and he was killed during in Vienna, Vietnam era while he was training to be a great Green Bray and he got killed during his training, and so I never had a chance to meet him. And it's always had a passionate sort of following his footsteps. And I loved the military and the whole idea of it.

And shooting each other with with pellet guns.

Right two eyes out, you know what could happen?

And so when it came to my junior year of high school, I developed a seizure disorder. And so I started having seizures and they really didn't know what was the cause of it. And so when you have two or three, they give you an epilepsy diagnosis. And so when that happened, then it sort of took me out of the box and going to the military.

So that was kind of a dream destroyer.

And and so I was kind of lost right without purpose and having purpose, of course is is you know, it's a it's a necessary thing.

To have in your life.

And and so I was a little lost. And my senior year, you know, I can take those those career aptitude tests where you can kind of get a measurement of what you might be good at doing, and it measured that that I would be good at at being an EMT.

I never really thought about it.

And I had a cousin that was a MEDICA out in Las Vegas, and so I called and talked to him about it and got some insight.

And I looked to see if having a.

Seizure disorder, if I would even be able to get, you know, in the fire service, and and thankfully I was. I was able to do that as long as it was controlled for six months under medication.

And so I'm like, okay, So I'm like, all right, I'll try it.

And right after high school I got into an empt class and joined the volunteer fire Department. And you know, basically that the the last bill the day of the year, the summer at school that was probably still ringing.

I was jumping on the tailboard of the engine, you know.

So you go out of high school. I was getting by the bug right from there or what right out of high school?

Yeah, so it's paramilitary, right, So it's something.

That I to do and and learned that I was going to be good at it and had a passion, and soon it just kind of took off from there.

So so what happens with the seizures. Did they just subsorbed on medication for life now?

No?

Yeah, And you know, about probably about two years later, maybe about two years after high school, I just stopped taking it and because I just knew, you know, there's side effects of everything you take, and and it was gonna could have led to a plasticanemia and cancers, and and so I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna wean myself off of it and see

So let's see how it We say this all the time, right, how you get pushed in a certain direction and a point in your life for some reason, right trajectory man?

Yeah, the time that happens with guys, either they had somebody in their family who they knew right away, or it's something like like that where you wanted to go in a totally different direction, or you know.

Somebody says, yeah, take this.

Test, Yeah you have, you have no direction you're going on, and you enable walks down the blockhangent application and then next thing you know, you know.

Sure, thirty years of the fight department, right, Yeah, yeah.

You got you became a paramedic and you were paid paramedic for a while.

Right, it was, Yeah, so I did.

I was a medic for three years in Champagne, and it was interesting while I was still volunteering. I did volunteering too while I was doing that, and we had I was in Champagne or ban and we had ambulances, but we also had ambulances or box trucks back then that we carried all extrication equipment and everything like that.

So it was very unique.

And we covered Champagne, Ravana and then a lot of about four or five rural areas outside of that area. And so we were going in the rural areas and and uh taking in runs. But there's a lot there was a lot of pen ins and things out there, so we did a lot of pen in work while we did the medical work too.

So it was it was an a.

Good jump start and fight a bull.

When did you When did you? And how did that come about? Where you would what test did you take? Did you just take Chicago? How did that come about?

For when I got on the city, Yeah.

To take the test for that how did that even come about? Like, this is what I want to do. I'm going to Chicago, right? Is that how that work?

Yeah?

Well, I think it was one of those things. As soon as I got the bug, I wanted to do it right. And so you know, if you're if you're going to do it, you got to go where the work is and where the big dogs baby, yeah, yeah, yeah, And so that's what it was. It was just I had the bug, and I think my desire was to be urban right in Chicago was certainly.

One in Illinois, and I had had my eyes on.

And did you go with any friends to take the tests? You took it by myself?

No, I just took it. I took it by myself when I was in the suburbs.

So I was a medic for three years and then I came up to the suburban areas and worked as a as a cross train paramid re fireman for a department outside of the city. And I was there from ninety seven to two thousand and the members I worked with there, a few of them were from Chicago, and I had an opportunity to ride on the city to call it Fanning right, So on the West side on truck twenty six and I and Mow had mentioned his name, Frankie Corone, and so that was around ninety five ninety six.

And and so.

We took a test, right, so it's huge, it's you know, the filled I think I think at that time they had it two days in a row because they couldn't they couldn't get enough people in the stage.

There's a lot of competition obviously a lot.

Of competition, right, and so I was just fortunate to land the top fifteen hundred out of I don't know how yeah thousands, So yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So how long did after he took the test that they finally called it?

It was we took it ninety five, so you're thinking ninety five to get it goes through all the illegal stuff, and a year or so later it came out. I think it was supposed in ninety six, ninety six, ninety seven, and and so I got on two thousand, so right around three little.

Well, you ride with those guys in Chicago. You knew you were in the other list, so that I would be nice, right, Yeah?

Yeah?

Did you run it to mout back then? Did you know who he was?

You know what?

I'm sure I did. I don't know if you was on the first shift or not, but I'm quite sure I did.

They didn't know. I didn't know who he was at that time.

Really told guy. Yeah, really, they come to jaggle of watch throw.

Something out there.

So you go to the oh there he is here.

There it is, right, So it was a big group.

Where is their academy? Is it in Chicago?

It is, Well, it's in Chicago, to the Quinn Academy. It's it's basically where the history of is where the great Chicago Fire in eighteen seventy one started. Really yeah, So put that academy there, and and they recently, over the last year or so, they built a new public safety entire complex and it's really stay of the art, and they put that on the West Side.

So they used the Quinn Academy.

For for certain things, and then they used the other the other site for for other things.

How many people in your US.

We had one hundred. I think we had one hundred. We might have been we might have been right at one hundred decent size.

Yeah, yeah, So.

Let me ask you us Brett, when you get into the academy, then do you how does that work over there? Is it similar to New York where you have to make a phone call like you're trying to get to certain places over and.

You know what, I came in probably on the late stages of that. If not, that might have been a little but it was still it was still going on, right. You still had people that had which I am completely in favor of, is when you have family on the job that you get taken care of.

There's nothing wrong with that.

If you had a parent they got killed on the job, I think take care of with that doubt. And if you served right, if you served the military, and I think you should for sure I have that's I'm all.

Who did you call Freddy to fix a Well?

You know that I did. Well.

At that time, they were they were going around and asking you where you lived, and and so they were trying to put you in an assignment close to where you lived, and I was trying to tell him I lived in the West Side, so they weren't buying it.

You know, but you're planking, he is no, he is no, Oh you are, oh you are.

Well.

Did you have an apartment in them you moved up for the academy.

I did, and I had a house way out in the suburbs.

And when I got the letters saying that you that you're on the list and your waiting list, and you had to have a residency by the time your academy started, So when you step foot on the academy, you.

Had to have a city address. And so I was.

Fortunate enough to be able to sell my house I had within thirty days and and bought it, you.

Know, rent an apartment up north and got a city address.

You single at the time, I'm sorry when you single at the Yeah, I had his own house before that.

If he's doing something, I try to do it. Yeah.

I know all the guys who own houses too. Club Lord, So that where do you I think I have it?

Hit?

He goes to one thirteen. Where are they located now?

So they are on the West Side.

They're Laramie and Harrison, and they're in uh what it used to be the old thirteenth battalion, and that's the eighteenth battalion.

Now it's a fourth district.

So they they're rock and rolling all.

There gets worse, they all that's a solid, solid battalion. Thirteenth.

It's a solid district thirteenth and the old thirteenth and old fourteenth they're different, different numbers now. But that's where actually Mo spent some of his time. And and Chicorotis we had him. He did Squad two and in the west side and the old thirteenth.

Did you go there by himself? He went there with another I don't know if they call Proby's proby.

Yeah, I had two. Now I had one other candidate that went there. Otherwise I was the only one and the other one was the only one that went to the thirteenth.

Was it a young house or a lot of senior guys in there?

The it was a it was an old house.

Yeah, at a lot of twenty twenty five year your guys, which was great, you know.

What I mean.

And and to step foot in that and my officer was awesome. Jack Cummings, John Cummings is real name, but he he was from the sixties and guy and he had no one of his voices.

It was yeah right, distinct.

Very up pilgrim.

Yeah, such a shutdown thirty three just no fucking back up John waiting time. You want your own boss, so you uh.

Sorry sorry read what do they ride five min engine former into? What do they have there?

The heavy? You're all heavy?

Yeah? It was five that's fine, man, And it was an ALS engine.

It was one of the first couple of engines they started an ALS program, which is.

Good for you, because you're already a paramedic.

Right, I wasn't medic, which did help me get that spot.

Yeah, correct, it's something else helped me get in that spot too, right.

Roy fiction, How did uh do you remember your first job?

That's yeah, no, it was don't pretty much ride out the door.

I couldn't tell you my first one, and actually we could probably talk about later, but I journaled my first year and uh, my first year on one thirteen and my last year of five years on Squad two and uh and put it in a book.

Oh right, we got to talk about the book, man.

Yeah, yeah, I wish I would have done that man.

Yeah, right, and that's right there. Yeah, Bernie, Bernie Burne. This is it here.

Let's see what does it take.

Take it right on the west side.

That's pretty cool. Where do we find that?

Yeah, that's on Amazon Amazon. Yeah.

Yeah, it's very very thin, right, So it's it's our firefighters attention span.

So it's about get on the floor.

For the toilet, you zip, you zip out.

It's like dropped the kids off of the pool. You mean this beautiful? So it has like word for word of what you experienced your first year.

Yeah, so it was. It's it's a street view perspective, right.

So it's the first year, and I tried capturing everything, but I couldn't and we were just too too busy, so I just kept the interesting ones and uh, and then put it in.

It's kind of a journal form for it. Yeah.

Oh that's cool man. I had started the journal too, and those idiots like six months and thought I was writing about them, like I was ratting on with up and they threw it out. If it's my journal?

Yeah yeah.

One of the guys that had twenty he had twenty twenty two years on and and he had mentioned that my first day there that he had wished he had done that, And I'm like, what.

A great that's a great tip for young guys.

Problem.

Look like we just gave an old school tip of the day right here, man oh man, journal Right, maybe you want a journal about wearing a pink shirt? Makes it spaghetti me bulls or I don't know what you want to delicious?

Well, you know what it was, Kobe.

Even when you guys came on right the uh they were keeping a journal.

But I don't know if it was more people.

I wasn't the same journal. Yeah, drills that they were doing. And you know what, guys wouldn't even do it every day. They wait till you have to go give it in and they would write, you know, five months.

Keep I did keep.

I have my first run, I have my first fire, I have I think I have a lot of first.

You're the one who told me to keep it hanging right over here.

I watched. I think I was because you forget everything right.

I mean, guys come up there like you know all this time later be like, hey, bro, if you remember that job and we had over that, I'm like, holy shit, I do remember that job. But I would have never thought of it, you know, on my own, just because you can't remember anything.

Was it like social stuff that went out of the firehouse too, Bret, Like every day stuff like bull breaking.

Or I put a little of that in there, you know what, and a lot of just of course it's humor, right, and just the neighborhood that we were in, and and just you know, it's sometimes it's a little.

Theater, right. You got the garage doors up, you're sitting out there and it's entertaining.

And then some of the neighbors, right, they would come in and talk and have conversations.

So I put some of that stuff in there too.

You're gonna make a little movie out of that, bro. It was a little TV series or something that'll be great. So who wrote something about Chicago firefighters? I don't know Chicago. The other pole with that is everybody is good looking in there, and they're all banging each other in the firehouse, Like this is so unrealistic. Come on, Chicken Rotes, cry it out loud.

Who were Who are some of the guys that you were working with that you remember that that took you under their wing kind of thing.

Bernie Byrne was one we have some great relief officers, Nicky Cairo and Roy Dean and.

Who else?

Boy, I tell you Ron Mainley was on Tower fourteen over on the out of one seventeen's house, and and Jimmy Davis will learn a lot from him with engine work and Joey. But NICKI Cairo, he's a relief officer. He and well and Mitch Crooker as well. So he was the captain at one thirteen?

Was he when you were there? He was the captain man?

Yeah?

Wow, I love yeah. So and you know it's just just a yeah, just the endless list of names for sure.

Right, So, now, how does it? How does Chicago break down? Is that the south side of the Is that what it is? The south side? Are they the busiest?

Well?

I think if you wanted to do some comparisons, I would say that the west Inglewood, which is like south but like north south, like a mid south, but it's south. And then you go far south, which is Roseland so you got Roseland and you got Inglewood, and then you got the west side.

So you got.

Inglewood that's south side, and they got Rosand that's far south. And then you have the west side and they're pretty comparative.

Yeah, yeah, some of the engine one thirteen.

Those guys are consistent all this time too, right, they kind of do this, you know, they're always in the numbers, right for the most part.

Yeah, a lot of Did you ever did you have a ride in New York at all? Did you have a I never?

I never did.

I tell you my first time to New York City and my last. I haven't been back unfortunately, kind of ashamed of it, but was during the last three days of rescue effort after nine eleven, so so that I was there with uh four or five other other guys, went and we're there for about sixteen hours. We spent sixteen hours there and then and then then came back. And I haven't in the bad.

Since they seem they seem kind of similar New York City fire and in Chicago fire, you know, yeah, same ghetto type.

You know, five fighters, I mean every guy we've had on from Chicago. I think we've had about five guys on.

Everyone than that. They're all hot, joy.

Mold, same mold, you know, like definitely the same mold. Yeah.

Yeah, well, you know what it's it's it's where you work, right too, It's you know when you go to those areas that that requires you to want to be there and want to do the job. The people who don't want to be there don't last long.

Right, we'll find that, we'll find that place to settle in these people.

But those who stay are quite like minded, right, and they're they're into the and they're trustworthy. Right there, go get.

What did my brother used to say? Rough the seat for every as they find the seat somewhere else, right, Brett likes that's.

Fine too, that's okay all the time. Yeah, that's fine.

Yeah, it'll either be voluntary or involuntary, but they'll right.

And you know what it is too, it's if you get people who don't want to do the job and you get them into the firehouses that are slow and they fill them seats up and then when there's you know, that means that we're not getting detailed of those houses. We're staying where we want to be. And right, so hey, if you if you guys, you know, if you got people that want to be in the slow houses, then you know, more power to you.

Now, how did they used to run on a still alarm? What do you get?

Three engines?

Two trucks and the rest, and they call them squads.

Right yeah.

On the on the still alarm, we get two engines, two trucks, a writ truck, and then we get the squad and command band and am but tie chief?

Do the chiefs still drive themselves over there?

They do?

The battalion chiefs do. Yeah, yeah, they still do. They did have drivers years ago, but they still drive themselves.

So Crook used to use a crate. I guess to sit up.

All of them, every one of them.

You seem pretty so I've told you, bro I am six maybe five, you know, right, you know.

That's the purple unicorn, right.

Everybody looks, Yeah, what.

Was the other guy? Oh? Chief Timothy as well. He's kind of Uh.

We had a lot of chicken roots him. Crook a Crooker book? Where is that? Jack?

Know?

Another thing that I find, Like we've had a bunch of those guys come on the boat trip, right, We've seen him at parties and stuff over the years.

Uh, they could take.

It, man and give it right that there's very few people even like people around the country, like we go to shows and stuff. You could tell you could get them, you know what I mean? Like not those guys. Not not the Chicago guys. You can definitely tell they have.

I talked to Mo and he doesn't call me a jack off. At least ten times. I feel like something's wrong, jack ban, jack off something.

Timothy Chief Timothy is the same. I told him, Yeah, he's freaking hilarious.

Did you work with him, Timothy?

I did?

Timothy was he he was relieving as a as a chief in and out in the thirteenth as well.

But yeah, I should have wont my jack off shirt tonight.

Man, Yeah, I should have won a jack off.

He got me the jack of shirt.

Yeah, slacker.

So why do you decide to leave? You go to engine? How long did you put in one thirteen before?

For five years?

And I like moving around and so that was that was kind of that was gonna be my my m O. Anyway, when I went, I wanted to move around, see different parts of the city and just getting different perspectives.

Well, Engine one thirteen.

So the thirteenth Battalion is heavy in apartment building six flats, three flats, courtyards l shaped, and a lot of flat roofs right, and a lot of back porch fires, a lot of arson jobs and and things like that and so, and it was an ALS engine, single engine with with stairs, and so I kind of wanted to see what it was like to be on another I liked single engines. That's why I went to the other one. And they

It was an ALS and they had more frames.

They ran with, you know, thirty eight and one on nine forty four, some really good houses. So I went over there and I was there for for two years.

And how big guys feel about you leaving from one.

Fote one thirteen? You know what I did? I think I caught a little slackh from it, a little bit, sure, sure, a little slack. But they understood, of course, right, And it was kind of breaking up.

Some guys were getting promoted and people were retiring, and so it was kind of breaking up anyhow. I know, bitch, he gave me a hard time for going, but I just it was one of those things I kind of had to do what you know, of course, you got to do what's good for you and and and I just kind of wanted to just to change and and.

What are you studying it all by that time?

And not I was in college. I was doing that. I wasn't studying for any promotional.

It was one of these smot guys bro to.

Science I was doing at that time.

I think, Yeah, I finished an undergrad and behavioral science, and then that one I was working on a graduate degree in public safety.

We got a really schmock guy.

I'm smot miking.

Not like everybody, what are you gonna say?

No, I was saying that, if I remember right, it seemed like a lot of the Chicago guy guys kind of bumped around.

A little bit all over the place. Yeah, it seemed like like I think we brought that up last time. Like in New York.

It's kind of like most guys stay unless they get promoted. You know, they might go from an edge to a truck or to the rescue, but they don't go generally engine to engine to engine or something like that.

Yeah, right, because most of.

The stuff like did those like something called bidding. Did you have to bid that?

Yeah?

Oh yeah, yeah I remember, yeah yeah, And that's uh And that's the thing too, you know, just like anything else.

I'm not sure on New York how they did it.

I think I was talking to something from Boston a few years back and they were seeing how their candidates would rotate around every I don't know, every year, every couple of years or whatever. But it's in the city. Yeah, you you've come out and you're there. And so if you're a hard charger, you know, post military and just able right to do the job, and you get out of the academy and get second in slow house, you're like a lion, you know, in a cage.

But that's on fortunate. You could be stuck there for five years.

To just move up to something that's that's even a medium you know, medium pace.

You know that sucks. So it's good to know Freddy to fix it, you know what I mean?

What was it?

What company did you transfer to? One seven? Who was who was over that that? You remember?

That was?

So?

I had Joe Muscollino who was Battalian chief there, which just a great guy, and he was my captain when I first came out. I went to an engine forty three for three for two months because we had temporary assignments, and so he was my captain at that house, and he he was the one that I could probably get credit to get me into to the thirteenth. Yeah, I met the engine one thirteen, so he was there. I went over there, and Jerry McKee was an awesome, well

I knew a few other firemen and so it was good. It was a good move.

How did they do over there in those busy areas, because I know a lot you busy areas don't necessarily cook all the time, right and out Like in the squad we we out of the road a lot. So do they do the same over there, you know in the busy areas, No.

They still cook.

Sure, we leave the cook back and unless it's still and they run. I think for the most part, traditionally the cook is there and usually sits, you know, it stays back, you know, for for ambo runs and you know, the anything that's really not a still alarmed for the most part, because you know, it's kind of an incentive. Right, So you're you're in the kitchen all day and you're doing this and that, and you stay back on all the runs.

And at nights and at ninth and you can hop on the runs and go out.

I know some houses one of the houses I was at, they even at night unless it was still run. That it was kind of an incentive that he didn't they didn't get on the ring unless it was a fire.

Interesting.

I didn't know that even a bad game, let's sit back and cook unless it's a job. I no, no elevator, no fighting cook.

Right, yeah, it's you know, you guys know it.

Shoot, you can be there's houses with you know, twenty twenty one people on the firehouse.

That's oh yeah, booking a mass unit, right, so.

Yeah, oh yeah, all right, do you have to call Freddy to fix every game? Because this is a big movie here.

Bro, you have a big one. Yeah, it was a big Yeah.

What makes Did you have your eye on going to the squad for a while?

I did, you know, Uh, I was put myself through a lot of the certifications, the rope, you know, certifications they're repelling, and most of everything that you needed to get on there, and even Patty the scuba diving and things like.

That, you had to have to get on there.

And and so I did that on my own and just put in for it there was an opportunity to do. They would do ninety day right, and they would do ninety days details on the squads, and it was a ninety day you would kind of get it, get a feel for it. For ninety they would fill you out too, right, so you'd go ninety days and then if you if you were a fit and if that was something you wanted to do also.

But if you were a fit, they would be able to extend it.

And then once that spot would open up, they would put open it up for bid, and then you would.

Put in for it and then have a good shot of getting it.

So I was very helped to train yourself on all those huh.

Well and then and then one I was on there. I took a few more courses that I didn't have, like collapse attack and things like that, but for the most part I had.

I had it. And I'm not sure how they run it now, But to bid.

For a squad you have to have most of those You have to have a lot of those shirts before you even go.

And how many squads are there, again, Brett.

There is Some people will make a joke of it, but there's Squad one, Squad two, Squad five and Squad seven is out on the airport. So Squad one is is mainly the downtown squad and stuff.

Yeah, they cover they cover some some parts of the west side south sort of west side right, and then Squad two covers all the west side and part of the north, a little bit of northeast.

So they get the fuego. Squad two is what you tell you give me the wink right the way wink.

And then Squad five is the south side squad.

So what was that like went from the engine going to that place, like how to be like everything you would would have hoped.

If it was? Yeah, with that that that was great.

Yeah, it was awesome, I tell you it was. I was very fortunate, immeasurable experience. I would say that the five years I spent there, I would have never gone to as many roofs as I did and had a chance to do force as many doors. So when you're on that squad, you just you kind of can dial into certain things like we went to roofs all the time, and.

We had we went to a lot of flat rope, so we covered the west side.

We were the west side squad, and so there's a lot of flat ropes there, and so we had an opportunity to go to a lot of roofs. When you go to the peaks, generally, if you know, if there's if there's a need to go to the roof and it's a peak, you don't really want to put more than you know, two or three guys on the peak.

If not, then if we went.

To the slower areas where the experience was a little lower, then we would find ourselves going up on peaks.

That's the most work fire.

Du Yeah, I would say.

I would say two and five in for the most part are pretty close neck and neck, right, So yeah, I would say I would say that for sure, Squad five, I would say, if there was a if you would say, you know, you would have probably they're probably ahead a little bit.

But not that much.

Yeah, Now you guys didn't have a walk through. Do they have a walk through now or they don't have the walk through rigs.

Yep, that is that's the box there.

It looks like it's a box and uh and then there's a snorkel, so there's a yeah, well you mean.

You have two riggs that you kneeling down in that picture might have been yeah, got back up?

Yes right, yeah, wow, different went out the stash.

Yeah right, Yeah, that's the box truck though. So that's the box truck.

That's where we kept you know, all the dive equipment and the tanks and all that stuff in there.

And you and then you had a snoreful that you would have.

A snorkel that followed.

Yeah, really so, but god, see if you can find that I don't see that looks like I'm almost sure we've probably seen.

It in the past, but no, we had it up. We played it.

Yeah, gonna see the frush my memory A right, who is.

Some of the guys there that as soon as you got there that you were like, Holy Michael, these guys are the real deal.

Yeah good, A few a few of the guys that came on with Yeah, Squad one Downtown.

So that's Squad one. That's the Downtown ring there.

Yeah, but that's a that's your snorkel.

You're talking about, right, yeah, yeah, ok, yeah, So that's the snorkel and you have a box truck that goes with that. They go to every every run you go on every run.

Yeah, so they lead and the snorkel follows.

Sometimes they switch it up, but for the most part of the box the leads and the snorkel follows.

Yeah.

Yeah, so then uh, it depends, you know, Squad five, they may run it a little different. I know, we ran it where the box tracked the front rig. The driver and the one sitting behind went to the roof if we went and the officer and the one sitting behind the officer and the boy in the in the box rig went to the front and went with the engine to the front and make sure the front was open. And then you know primaries and then the two that ran the snorkel. If we didn't set it up, we went to the rear.

So that was kind of how we did it.

Similar right foremost Yeah.

Interesting, So getting back to that question, what what what were some of the guys that when you got there, that that stuck out.

To you like these are the real deal.

Yeah, well, some of the offerers, for sure. Pat Pat Maloney was the captain on the squad.

He's pretty sorry to get him on bro. I am he's the chief that he was a chief too, right, wasn't he the chief of special operations too?

He was yeah? Yeah for yeah he was.

Again tomorrow.

Yeah.

Yeah, my crew, I was on the third and I wasn't in the military, but most of them were. So their marines. He was a marine, Kenny Giraz, Jean Row. So Gene Row was the one that you're trying to get a hold of. Another guy, Yeah, he's he was man, he was a monster, right, man.

So he played for the Bears.

Right, so Bears, we heard Seahawks and just an awesome guy. And uh yeah, so Brian Glas, he he's he's off the job now he's down in Florida. Actually, oh, he's a training captain and in a department north of Tampa somewhere.

Was about to get hit.

Yeah.

Who who would you think of all the guys that you work with, You're like that that guy is the best fireman I've ever worked with.

Off the squad or just anywhere, just anywhere put.

Your hand down of God in your career, which guy would you say, like, Holy ship is the best fireman I've ever worked.

Okay, boy, that's tough.

One, I would say, well, yeah, that's tough.

Yeah, oh sure, I don't you want to give me top three? How about that?

Yeah? Top three? I would say. Frank Corone for sure.

He's got just a just a wealthy knowledge and Italian.

Yeah.

So yeah, Frank Corone. And Barry Temple, which he uh was my officer. He was at he was on the West Side, he was on truck twenty six and ninety five for a while and he ended up being my officer on ninety three.

And learned a ton from him.

And uh, you know Pat Maloney of course, my captain Pat Lynch, who was a captain on squad too.

Just I learned a lot from him.

Just a lot of wisdom, right, so, and then we learned about leadouts and talents and h then you're looking at Nicky Cairo, who was a relief officer in the West Side, who came from seventy seven and just just a really really genuine guy, but just a hard charger and knew knew something, knew his engine work, and so I picked his brain and all the time.

And some guys just have that natural to be in the right place. So that's sense to be in the right place at the right time, right. Yeah, I'm sure you've worked with guys like that. They're just always in the right place, you know.

Yeah. Yeah, already. Rand us a great you know friend of mine. He was squad too. It's solid.

He was he was.

Another marine and and so he he as a hard charger and he was on he was he's still on the job as an officer and run on the south side trucks. Yeah, and you know, I tell you, it's it's just it was just never ending over there, especially where I was at there, and and uh and you know squad because we served the West side, and and and roseland just everyone of us just great.

And it was just that was very fortunate. Yeah. Uh.

What was some of the jobs that stick out to you? Like, if you had to think of some jobs that really is.

You want to you want to pull some pictures up and you can give us a load down on these jobs. Pete put that up.

Yeah, I would say that one out. I don't I don't.

Remember that one as far as I think I know if that one was, it was it was in the morning and the sun was going to start coming up there, and the it was a it was an abandoned building, and that second floor.

Was was rolling and we were it was lit up.

It was an arson job and it ended up getting through the roof there after a while. But that, uh, that ended up being a snorkel job. We set the snorkel up for that. And you know, it's just pictures. Like when you look at the pictures and you look at you know, I remember that fire, and and when you're on squads is when all the pictures show up, because you have people that write the squads, that do photos and they sell the photos to the magazines and stuff.

You weren't right right right, you know.

So all right, we got another one. We got the church job.

Yeah, yeah, so this one look out, Yeah, this one sticks out to me. I actually I give a talk to candidates and when I talk about you know, lessons learned and things like that with when it comes to self discipline and listening to the radio and and things like such as getting out when when they tell you to get out, and you know, we tend to have that sense in us that we've got it right, and let's just just give us, you know, a few more minutes.

We've got it.

I see it, we're hitting it and and really not realizing what what they see on the.

Outside, right, And.

A number of times, I mean, we just kind of don't listen to the radio and just keep going and and but sooner or later it's going to bite you. And and this one, in particular was was one of those situations where we pulled up and this started off. I guess they got the calls a dumpster outside and and they got there and realized that it got inside, it was taken off, and we got there and we went to the rear, and that was the picture that we have coming up.

For it doesn't look like that much from the ria, but.

Right, and we were still chasing it around. We went up and it was already and I from squad to arranda and we went up and forced that door, and we were getting ready to go in, and so we started to go in after we forced it, and then another company brought a line in and we went a little bit eager, about thirty maybe forty feet in there, and I had a camera too. We were just searching around and we finally started, you know, confidence of ceiling, and we found it a little bit deep in there,

Let's go.

And I had the camera and it was just me and at the time, I thought it was just me, Artoranda and the guy on the engine, and so things were happening, and and some people passed me, and I thought it was them, and I thought I was the last one out, and I was going for the back door the way we came in, and things just started coming down even more and it just went orange, and I remember going through, uh, you know, having to go through my mind that the only thing that that I

That was that was that was the only thing in my mind at that point, right.

And so when I got out to the door, got out the door, and it was raining out is icy, right, and the staircases were icy. And so I got out and I was trying to look down the smoke line.

Because it was all come out the door.

And we had a writer a photographer with us, and and uh he was in the backyard in the gangway back there and they're in the back alley and he was he was taking picture. He's the one who took that picture and he thought it killed all three of us when when it lit up, he was he was shocked to see us, uh, you know come out of

And when we have them, we gotta we gotta share it.

If we had a nickel for every guy on this show, even you know for us too. Where you're in, you know whatever, it is, two rooms into the thing and the same exact thing, the chiefs selling you to get out, and you're like, all right, we're getting it, and he's like get out, get out, and you're like, this freaking guy, like this right, And then you come out the door and the whole place is on fire, right like you know where you are.

It's like like you were just saying, it's just this little bit.

But you know, Kevin said, you know, when he was getting out of the job, his brother was a deputy chief, and he said this so many times on the podcast that when he drove his brother for the last year.

When he was, you know, getting.

Out, he realized how that was, like how the chief is making these decisions based on what he's seeing and information he's getting right, and it's always the guys on the inside who are like, we got it, you know, like you said, yeah.

One. Meanwhile, the whole place, I mean, it's happened to all of us.

You come out and it's like four floors of fire and you're like in the first floor putting out this little store fire.

You think like you're getting it knocked down with you.

I got Yeah, it's gone.

The whole building is gone. We didn't do good there, you know what I mean, it's done.

And you know too.

It's it's it's all those things that you put together and remember and talk about it, right and and and share your experiences.

It's it's really.

About maintaining your awareness of the environment in there, right, And even though you know we're going to find your you're going to find yourself.

And that's just what we do.

Of being above the fire floor, right, You're you're getting up there and you're doing any searches, and you're going to be above the you're gonna be on the floor

They were coming in.

From the back and they were in there trying to hit it or thinking they were hitting it, but the ceiling had dropped in front of them. But it was dark, they couldn't see they weren't hitting anything, and so it was blocking it up and started coming up the interior case. And I know I was doing a search up there, and I was getting steam burned, and you know, I

It's just made paying attention to your environment, right and well floor above.

Which started it's hard to teach in the academies now, right, is is really helping them know when they're losing and winning.

You know, yeah, what's your take on?

You could be doing everything right right time and still yeah, you know.

What's your your take on? Sub sub sub sub sellers.

Make fun of me because every time I say yeah, oh yeah, squad go down into the triple subseller, I'm.

Like that stuff.

I mean, we did it, but I always not that might have been a little puckering.

Yeah.

What are some other good fires that you had that you can remember, Brett?

Yeah, so well this one here is, uh, this is one of those that I that just sticks to me. And you know, you can go to hundreds and hundreds of fires and you're you're you're still going to have those that.

Didn't really had an impact on you.

It's one of those things that that direct you and guide you in your career and and and pivoting points right.

So but this one here was was.

An interesting one because it's one of those things where you know when you pull out and you're on the way and and you hear you know, it's confirmed fire and and you're hearing the radio traffic and your your fist bumping your partner on the way there, and and then boom that you hear all the radio, you got confirmed civilians trapped, and so then now that's just that's just you know, right, it just changes.

Our you know, our faces.

And and now now we know that we are going to someone, you know, to a situation where we have confirmed people trapped, and uh. And now it's it's about the risk and benefit, right, So now they're going to be equal, and we're going to make the risks for that benefit. And so we pull up and and this whole as you can see right to the right there, it's it's an enclosed staircase. This is kind of a late picture, of course, but the to the right it's an enclosed staircase.

And this is an arson job.

And they lit that whole thing up, and so the whole staircase was rolling and and uh and and with that being so, it was going all the way to the top, and of course it has nowhere else to go, so it starts pushing into these apartments. Well, we were assigned to go to the rear, I mean, Kenny draz and and so we pulled up and there was an injine grew out there already, and this was kind of

In here, and.

We didn't know where they were at, and so we went in and these are the situations where where we just this is kind of where we do the risk and benefit analysis, right, And we pull up and we got into the rear and we had no line to go in with, but we knew there was victims in there, and that's just those are the things that we're going to do, right. And you know, the people in there don't they don't have the gear, they don't have the air tanks that can breathing on and what we do,

And they had walled the wall to come into the rear. There was a wall.

Almost like it was a solid wall all the way to the front, and you'd had to go into the front and then their bedrooms and you turn and then you go back in, and all the bedrooms were adjoining, right, so in order for us to get in there and do a search, we had to go all the way to the front, and on our way there, of course, that the you know, the fire was breaking through the

He got a reward for that.

He him and Alex mindez he we they he took the daughter out, and then Joe was pulling that the mother out in some very high intense heat conditions, and it was his second floor was lightened up on him and and he was basically almost barey crawling to get her out. And so he got her out, and then the guy on top I had a daughter up there that he couldn't get down the stairs because the staircase was so thick, and the front staircase, of course, was

What could we have done differently? And and but you know, it's it's a timeline.

So it's one of those things I talked about, is that it's that timeline when we get there, and it's a reflex time. Right, So it's whenever that nine one one comes in you and you kick out and go to the scene. There's things we just have no control over, right, We're always up against the clock, the time that and the natural laws that we.

Just can't we can't change.

So all we can do is is is is put our game and play when we get there, right, That's when the kickoff is is when we get there.

That's all we can do.

We can try and make up for the time on the way there and route right, the push out is his is where it counts, and it's hard to make it up on street right.

So anyway, all these.

Kind of things that kind of starts beating you up, you know, where we could have got in there quicker, and because they didn't, you know, they didn't they didn't die, They wasn't thermal injury, right, so smoking relation and and so if we could have got there faster, or if you know, if the cruis are on scene, could have gotten it sooner.

Who knows.

But it's one of those things that that I always talk about in in our you know, in my classes and even the talks that I have is is all we can do, is is always all we can do is put one hundred percent into what we can do.

Right.

We can't control are the outcomes. We can't control things that we want to control. We don't have the power to do that. And and so you know, really, you know, all we can do is apply experience, lessons learn basically, wisdom to the to the situation, wisdom to the incident that comes from it, Lessons learned, and an experience to move that needle of probability to the outcome that we want.

To us except the big guy upstairs.

And and and so it's it's one of those things where it's just to let go the guilt, right, like the guilt because we're not designed to own that. And we're not you know, we're not supposed to own that, right.

You know what's funny you say, like you could have went to five jobs, ten jobs where people died, right, you know before that job, and it might not have affected you. But it's always like something about a certain job, like you said that that one was changing, life changing

Know what I mean.

I don't know why that is, but right, yeah, of course just happens. And like you said, you can only do so much.

You know. We've had a few guys. Yeah, right, dry fast take chances.

That's what I turn out.

I can't make it up on the road.

Can't make it can't make it up on the road. Yeah, breascinny the rigs skinny.

A picture of now God that they were asking for talk about that one.

Yeah, it was a mess. Yeah, this one. This was a career changer for me as well. And this was a Stone Park engine. This was in two thousand and four April twenty seventh, two thousand and four, and this was a department that I had worked on on the side. I'd been there for I did forty eighths between the

He had seen already at that time, you.

Know, on that shift and stuff, so he would jump up front and do the acting officer and until I got back, and then we would switch. Well, we were working all day and just just just a typical day, right, just having fun. We were actually doing training with the nearby town Melrose. We were doing hasbat training or something, and so we were just having you know, having fun and socializing and and then we got back to quarters and I had to get going to school, and.

So I uh wow. So I had left, he moved his stuff up.

I kept my gear on the rig because I was coming back right, so my all my gear was on the rig. He jumped up front and I wasn't gone ten minutes and they they catch an alley garage and they pull out and they're heading up down Mannheim, which is one of the main main main roads in the town.

And so this was the aftermath.

And so on my way to school, I get a phone call on my cell phone from Nick Steck or a good friend of mine in a department that just there was just north of Stone Park there in Franklin Park. And I answered the phone and he's like, oh man, He's like, I'm glad you answered the phone.

I'm like, well, what do you mean?

He goes, your engine is on Mannheim on the news and it's upside down and they're doing CPR and someone on Manheim, and I just I wanted to make.

Sure it wasn't you, right. So he's like, oh, good, you you answer the phone. I'm like wow.

So I turned around and headed back and that was the scene that I pulled up in and so I walked up and through the neighboring cruise came running up to me. And because they thought I was under the rig, and so they were right at that time I showed up, they were getting in.

In position to start to try and lift the rig.

They were just trying to conteplate how are we going to get this rig up, you know, and because they thought I was underneath it, because all my gear was there, my my coat and helmet was laying on right, So because I was just we were just with them, you know,

And that was my first personal experience with an l O d D.

And and of course they had to be you know, a good friend of mine, him and I were we had just busted concrete out, you know, a week before that, born concrete and hanging out on our days off and and and.

So it was about two years. I struggled with that and with the survivor's guilt.

And you know, I seen him in my my my mind, sleeping every time I went to bed, and always wondering, you know, if.

I just didn't, you know, always applying a planing, a a.

Certainty to to something that's already happened, right, and which we just can't do it. And if I didn't go to school, he'd be fine if we took it, you know, if I was there, we wouldn't, This wouldn't happen.

And we just don't know that. We can't. We can't make those conclusions your time, that's it.

Yeah, And so I really struggled with that for a while and and and went and went and see you know, I, you know, I sawt I help with you know, counselors and clinicians and of all types and and I just I just couldn't. It just wasn't helping me, right, they couldn't reach me. And and and so I went and seen father McCrone, which was our Chicago Department chaplain at the time. He'd been there twenty five thirty years at

And and uh and so that's tough, yeah, m hm for sure.

Mhai.

Well, and that's uh, that's the the tough part about it, is he right? You know, probably not even I would say, not even a week maybe even give it two weeks before that he found out he was a dad, Oh my god, a daughter he never met, and so they were trying to work it out to where he can meet the daughter, and so he never never had a chance to meet her.

Wow, we choose bro.

Yeah, I only have two pictures of it. Was this back in the game? Was this related to that incident? Was this something different?

That was different? Yeah? That was later on.

Yeah, that's it looks like a squad two, right, squad too?

That was that was a District six. That was a relief relief and.

Oh right, because you got promoted, right, yeah, so you're promoted while you're in squad and you go to.

It's on the set of Chicago Fire or something I picked up.

Right, Yeah, so I went from squad to to engine ninety three and right, and that's that was Southside that I think you remember. Chief Chicarota, Steve Chicarotas was saying that he went to ninety three year out of the academy, right, So it's same yeah, same engine, And so I went there. It's roseland it's a great it's a great battalion, very active, just a great group of guys in that house and the other houses that are in the battalion.

And that shot there was.

That was a fire that's kind of encompassed a few things of lessons learned, for sure, And that was a fire that we pull up and the neighbor comes running out and he started pointing at the second floor saying

You don't know about but.

We don't always know that, but at least we can put forth an effort to try and know, right. And so that was something that we just got not really I could say tunnel.

But we just kind of I guess maybe tunnel vision. Right.

So we got got the front door and we started going in, and then the sense in the base Onnth's way backed out and then it was then started venting out the window up front of the basement. So I started knocking it from the gangway and Engine sixty two, it's another great engine.

Uh.

They led out to the rear and they were just getting ready to make their push in the basement. So I shut down and then we re routed back into the front and then we went back through the front to the back and went through the whole floor plan.

So there was a person.

So I'm like, oh, my I'm like, hey, Barry, I got a you know, I got a victim or civilian. And so it's still pitch black right that It's just you can't see a thing.

Well.

By that time, after going in the first time, coming back out, and then going back in and navigate through, I.

Was about out of air.

So I found her and pulled her off, and I was rapping her with a with the webbing and my I ran out of air, right, So my barrels bells were going off, and I pulled her off.

I was getting her going and my no, I'm out of air.

And so I'm pulling my face piece off, and you know, I told, you know, bear, we got a victim.

And they're calling truck twenty seven is coming around.

And so we got I got her to the back and handed them, handed her off, and then went outside and kind of reoriented myself.

And then came back in.

And and so a couple of things, right is is man just check that basement, right, so we really have to just not overlook that.

And the other thing is don't get tunnel vision.

And and then after that fire, we were picking up and and and I went.

Upstairs after I would do it all after all my fires.

I would go in and walk in and I do a walk through, right, just to kind of see where I was, you know, did I think this is where I was at?

How? You know, did it look like how I thought envisioned? You know in the blind?

Nothing great right there?

That's a good, right. I mean a lot of guys do that, but you don't even think about it now, right.

And then so I kind of walked around and then went and looked at the basement too, and and then just walked upstairs and uh and walked up and it was like it.

Was it wasn't a finished attic, but it was.

It was an addict that had decking throwed down for kids to play, right, And.

Of course there's a tricycle there and a.

Ball and I didn't think anything of it, right, So I'm standing up there looking and it was kind of pretty much clear. And went back down and finished getting ready and you know, load and load, nose up and in about you know, twenty minutes thirty minutes later, Oh no, we get a call saying that we missed a kid.

And and so they found him, and uh, it sucks right so right.

So again those are just but that's again, those are circumstances, right then, that's just that's life that we do. And and you know we're not we're not always gonna win, right, so and again we could just put our heart into it and put our efforts into it, and you know, things aren't always gonna they're not going to turn out how we want.

And did the woman make it?

Oh?

Just she I'm not sure when I heard that they did a write up on or whatever that she was taken to hospital in critical condition, but I'm not sure she.

May y Yeah, right, bro, you can't control the outcome.

No, you can't. That happens. That's always. Yeah, maybe a few a year.

You hear it happens like in New York especially, like you might hear it.

If it's not in your burrow, it'll be in a different borough. You'll hear that.

You know, they they found somebody, you know, after the secondary or something like that, like you said ten minutes later or something like that.

Of course, yeah, you got another one guns.

You gotta have one more that he wanted to share with us.

Here.

There was this one here the want to use for the thumbnail.

Oh right, right, yeah, that was just a just look at all the abandoned buildings.

I know you guys were talking to I think it was more. It might have been more.

I'm not sure where you guys we were talking about how New York they didn't have a lot of bandoned buildings, right.

Not anymore?

No, oh, Nony won years ago, but the Bronx was burning.

Oh my god, I would say I would the war zone, you can count on one hand, even in the shittiest areas, that can count on one hand.

Yeah, it's crazy.

What now you mean.

Today, if you went into East New York, you could put count on one hand the amount of fake buildings one hand.

Yeah, yuppies walking around too, not any York but like in bed Sty either.

Yeah, yea.

So maybe I got this wrong. You went from squad to to engine ninety three because you promoted or you went there to transfer.

I went there too, I was getting you. So I was getting close to getting promoted. So being on squad was great, of course, and so I wanted to get back to I'd never been down in that area in Roselynd, so I wanted I knew Barry Temple was down there, and so I wanted to go work with him. And it was, Uh, it was closer to home. It's seven minutes from where I lived, and uh, and they were and they were rocking and rolling right and so im plus it was you know, it was a single engine house.

First a lot night, so it's a different kind of work.

Yeah, I wanted to get back to getting first in and and making those first in decisions.

Thanks so you got promoted and you were just a relief lieutenant. You never got I never got a spot.

You just bounced.

Yeah, I got a spot. Like the last maybe ten months or so. I went in Roseland it was just it's a Roseland had five houses. This was another Roseland house and it was Engine eighty. It's a little slower engine, but it had it covered a seventeen hundred low rise c CHA complex and in another housing area that it was low income, and and then and then in an express way. But as far as the engine goes itself, it it was a little slower as far as runs go.

You know, say uh yeah, well right right right there.

And then you know the candidates they're not going to get the training they need because you're going to have the officers that come in from the day and they're just not going to get it right. And and Barry Temple, who was my officer at ninety three, was the batalty chief and uh so, you know, I only had about another you know, ten months to go, and I was,

So yeah, decided to pack it in.

So while I was going to be I was going to be fifty. So I was turned fifty, gonna have twenty one years credits, and I had kind of wanted to do that anyhow. I was going to try and put twenty in the city and then uh and then and then get out because you know, your city residents. I didn't grow up in the city, and I just

City and and and live some dodge the hell out.

Baby.

It all looks good in the rear view mirror.

Yeah, I mean, you don't want to get deployed. You want to go back out the door.

Yea.

So it was an opportunity, and so I'm like, I'll just I'll take it, you know.

And how do you adjust when you well, you know what That's another.

Those are some of the things to talk about too, is being repurposed, right, I think that's important. Is purpose is to find a purpose and and then to be you know, repurposed, and which there you know, there's a purpose in all of us. And you know the main purpose is that we will never be without his is the one is to be is to be a good neighbor, right, to be a loving human being and and be a good neighbor and and uh, and that's that's a purpose that we all have. You know, no one can ever

We got to call you doctor. I knew you were hold that to the end, doctor Brett, doctor doctor.

So this is what I wanted to do, is I wanted to run that ministry and work with trauma right, work with first responders and help help navigate them right, help them navigate through through trauma biblical with you know, with the biblical direction and and family members and all that stuff.

And that was a passion of mine.

And you know, and then of course COVID really strained a lot of things like that. You couldn't you couldn't, you couldn't give talks, you couldn't do anything face to face, and so it was hard to market yourself right to get out there, and and so it was hard to get that off the ground.

And so I struggled with that for a little bit.

And during that time of not being able to do that, I was running and I.

Was feeling a lot of.

It's a sensation which I can actually talk about too, if you if you guys are up for that. It's it's something I call mission deprivation, and it.

It's something that.

I don't want to say I coined the term, but it's it's the stress of not experiencing the stress, and it's a it's a it's a pre like a pre trump traumatic stress, right, it's a stress paradox where if you think about it, if you are on this job and you are trained for a mission, right, your mission driven, and you're being constrained from doing that mission, it really has an impact on you.

Right.

So even for me, for my whole career, when I missed a fire, I hated it. I hated miss some fires. Even when I was younger, I hated going on furloughs. Right, So our furloughs were seventeen days, you know, I mean, how many fires are I going.

To miss in the same vacation for God's sake?

I know, right, I.

Hated it so but even you know, even then, you know, regards to how many fires that I went to, and you know, you guys do it's just you don't like missing it, right, It's just it's something you like to do. And but when you spend a period of time not being able to fulfill some sort of a mission or a purpose, it can have a huge impact on you. And I did a research project with mission deprivation and I had nine hundred and thirty one response respondents and it took me about a year to get the data

And I read an article.

Written by a marine who had three or four different chances to be deployed overseas and his unit got shut down every time, so he never was able to go. And he wrote an article how it screwed him up. It messed him up because he was never able to serve and he started experiencing guilt when he was praised. You start walking through Millet you know, the airports and if you weren't fatigues and all that stuff, and people

And uh.

And for another you know, forty eight percent, which was interesting, felt unfulfilled in their careers.

So think about that.

Out of nine hundred and thirty one, it's a it's a good sample size, right, and forty five percent would get upset when with missing fires. And I looked at that from either from zero to five years on the job and over twenty one years in the job, and the numbers were near the same.

So people just they just don't like missing fires, right.

And it's forty six percent of the single role medics when they took the data, when they took the survey, forty six They they claim to get upset and missing equality.

Ms ron pen and or you know, traumas or whatever.

So so when you look at that, it's it's remarkable compelling when you think about what which isn't looked at. Like so when you look at post traumatic stress and you look at things like you know, like anxiety and and you know our our race or suicide and things, that's one thing that it's not looked at. It's like cancer research, right, that for a couple of years, and

It's like it's a paradox. So I found that really interesting.

And to get back to retiring and finding yourself, leaving something you've done for thirty two years, your entire adult life, and you you're sort of without purpose, without direction, those same things, that same experience can start to develop and bubble up. And what I was learning is the side effects of that is very parallel and very similar to what's diagnosed and postmatic stress disease or.

Yeah, you know what, something that was weird. I think we might have talked about this coops.

Like for me, the thing that the fact that we started this podcast kind of like right after I retired in twenty or whatever it was, so it kind of kept me close. You know, guys always say I missed the kitchen or whatever. Right, you missed the guys, So it's kind of kept us with the guys. Right, we have the banter, we talk about fires, we talk about the job, so that part is not missing.

Giving good information which helps.

Right, you feel like you're there's a lot of young right.

I would say the thing that I missed the most is the rush of like turning the corner right, like turning you're on the rig like like you said before, just even when you said it while you were talking, I get it's in me like you're getting. You hear on the radio, numerous calls, people trapped to call on you on the radio. You got kids trapped on whatever on the floor above, Like you cannot there is.

No way that you get there's you cannot replicate that.

And maybe in the military if they're guys shooting bullets at you, But I don't know how you replicate that scenario where it's all on you, right, your guys, your company right, and like you said, the outcome And I think that's why you take that so to heart if it doesn't go your way, is because you're putting all the effort right, Like people really have no idea how much effort that is to.

To do what we're doing there, right. I mean, it's really an incredible thing.

Like when when I these just be so proud to like stand outside after a job and no matter who made the grab or who, you know, the engine went down the basement, you know, put the fire out. Some guy on the top floor in an attic made a grab like coming in the rear window like you know with fire shown, it's like incredible stuff that we do.

You know, like, oh, it's awesome without a doubt, and you know it's something too that to kind of you know, dovetail off.

That is is the.

Is the identifying with the the the idea of being a hero, right So, which I talk about in the talks that I give, is we have to be really really super careful with that, right So, and it's not really I don't really say that that those of us who are in this line of work and who have done this line of work see ourselves as that because it's usually the public, right that stamps that word, that

But what I'm gonna throw this at you then? But what I mean, it's the closest thing. I just say to my wife, it's the closest thing to faking or playing superhero. So if you look at it, Cole comes in for help, what do you do? You slide the pole right, just like Batman? What does he do? Get in this uniform? We get into a uniform? What does he do? Jumps into the batmobile, drives like a bad to go help somebody. What do we do get in

In this healthy hero, I don't know.

You know, yeah, And you're not going to ever repeat that adrenaline rush being retired. You can't what happens?

You know.

It's my line between danger and panic and not adrenaline rush in between.

It's just like, yeah, exactly, so, Brett, did you have the dream? But have you had the dream?

Have you had the dream?

I was just gonna ask you don't have it because you're still working.

I'm just asking that.

I have talked to Like maybe I haven't done a study like you, but I have talked to so many guys who say they have the same dream all the time. The run comes in, they can't find their gear, they can't get onto.

The the time you have it. Yeah, I told you why.

I'm retired ten years and I still have it.

Where right and that adrenaline rush?

Yeah, because I'm sort of considered myself organized, and so I wake up frustrated because I couldn't Why didn't I have my gear right?

Or where's my gear? All the time?

Yeah?

Yeah, isn't that something that's crazy?

I gotta find out that's about something, right, some research doctor. Can you tell me whether that's.

I haven't had that while I haven't had that in a while, But I don't.

Have that.

Every week.

I wouldn't be lying two to three times a week I had that same dream.

Well, why do you.

Think that is?

That we all have the dream where we can't we can't find the game. Sometimes I have a dream where I'm putting it on the wrong feet and I can't get the stuff going like fast enough, like it just has to be just all those years of having to do that so quickly, it's like a stress or pressure on you that you don't even realize that you've done.

You do you think that you think you started having those after you left the job?

Yeah, yes, absolutely.

Right, So I will look into that. It's interesting.

It's almost like you you sort of you're you're you're kind of detached, right from from that line of work and that routine everyday stuff. And you may it's possible that we can start feeling like we're in a pasture, right, so, or we're not not adequate anymore, right, we're inadequate, or sort of maybe we can't do it anymore, right, And so who knows. I don't know what it is, you know, but it's one of those, you know, lack of confidence. I don't know what it is, but I used.

To say that all the time. Right, you're you were a lieutenant.

You know, you were in sock, you were in special operations, you were in a squad. Now you're Brett who moses long. That's it, you know, now you're that guy.

That's right. You know, you're you're nobody.

You know life and your kids? Now you say something stupid. They're like, yeah, no, that's that's not the fire house not funny, and you're just dad all right now, don't get me the butter and of refrigerator right.

See, now that's interesting. I'm glad you guys brought that up. I look, I'll look at that. It's good, look at that.

We talked.

We've actually talked to a few people about that, and I would say most people definitely have something to that effect where they're mission their groun or they can't get on the rig or whatever it is, I can't find their stuff.

I have a shoot to that dream too, Like I'll have a dream that I can't find my gear because I left it on the rig last time and that's a no no, and they hit it on me in the fireouse. Now I got no looking all over the firehouse for my gear.

I wonder if it's the same with So.

I know he was on the job, but he was great and he was a fighter, right, So he would dream when when he would dream, and he when he would get in fights in his dream, he would lose. He said he would always lose his fights.

Isn't that something? Yeah, I don't know, unless you always.

Know I expect to hear expect to hear back from you doctor snow them.

Uh yeah, do we find out where we can get the book?

Guns?

It's on Amazon.

I have a picture on Amazon.

Yes, right there, baby, twelve bucks, twelve books go to sixty percent discount. Bro, it's not free.

I'm I'm going to order it tomorrow. I'm honering it yourself.

Bull of shit. You ain't I'm ordering a kid. They no money coming out of that pocket, bro.

That one I'm going to read. All the other ones I don't read, right, that one I want to.

Read day to day.

I want it in the fucking tree stand, you know, kind of like it wasn't it.

Wasn't ninety two dollars, it was twelve dollars.

Right, Why don't you get some of those in handled out it the spaghetti and meat old dinner?

Bro?

You know you really you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I can try that, but you know what time it is, bro? Right now before we get any Oh yeah it is. Even though he's been laid these at the whole.

Show, It's time for my friend d school kick of the day, day day day, all right, my friend, I've had it.

Yeah, I do have a couple and it's something that's it's certain that is that I realized how important it is too to make sure that the candidates and people that are new in this job start off on the right foot right. So we need to get them to where while their feet are still in the starting blocks and before they take off down that lane. And some of the things that that I really hone in on when I'm talking to the candidates and giving a talk

You're you're going to your assignment.

And here's a this is what we need to really think about. And this is something I learned and certainly was was drilled into me my first day on the job. The city, for sure is is to know what's expected of you as an individual and as a new candidate, as a rookie, and that is to to want to be here right, to want to be there. So your crew, your team, you're you're, the members that you are signed with and the company you're on, they want you to want to be there, and that's important, and to ask

So we need to stay humble. And and to be the first in to work.

It was always a thing that I always prided myself on, is to be there as early as I could. And and maybe I was a little overzealous, but but it was something actually that the Mitch Crooker had said to me, is is you know that the earlier you get, you know, you just you can add about another seventy fires to your career. And and and that's without a doubt. And so I like to get early. And so you get early. That so it shows that you have your care, your passion in your job, you have pride in your.

Job, and uh and the sooner you get to work, you can get get in service.

And so get to work and try to be first, get in service, avoid having to be asked to get something done, and stay fit for duty both physically and mentally.

Meaning that I stay fit. Right.

So when those when that nine oh one comes across as people that are calling that phone that number, they.

Expect you to show up. They expect you to be prepared to know the job.

And that's your responsibility is to learn this job and put forth a level of excellence. And again, we can't control the outcomes, but we can control the effort that we put into what we do. And and check yourself right and before getting home, meaning that when you leave the job and you're going home, you've got a family to come to.

Check yourself, check your attitude. You're going to be tired.

Yeah, you're may have had a bad day, rough day, may have seen some things that yeah, I understand, but so what right you'll get over yourself. Know that you have a responsibility and and and again resume the duties that you have when you're off of work, right, meaning that you leave work, you clock out, You got duties off the job.

You got your your parents, your spouse, you're.

A neighbor, you're someone to someone else, and you have a responsibility to to stay and resume your duties in those roles. And uh and no one, uh you know, asked you to do this job. You chose it, you picked it, and this is what comes with it is you're going to be tired and uh and that's just the way it is. And and learn to live through that and rise above that and talk about it. Right, So things that are that are bothering you don't be afraid to talk about it.

It's okay.

It's one of those things that there was a school of thought where we don't we don't talk about it.

We go home.

We don't want to share things because we don't want a secondary you know, trauma our family. And sometimes I think we need to rethink that. Right, We may need to change a paradigm on that way of thinking because we don't need to get into the gross details. But if we want a spouse to be our support system, we need to learn to be able to talk to them about it, right. We need to pull them in

Of the precursors to high rates of divorce in this job is.

Just a distance ourselves. So another thing is to is to have a healthy stress mindset. Is is to know this is not a ninety five job, right, This isn't working at Chase Bank, This isn't.

An office job.

This is a job out that requires commitment, physical commitment and mental comment commitment. This job is more mental than this physical at most times. And uh, and it's dangerous. Right, We're going to see death. We're not always going to win. Right, We're going to go in and we're going to look for victims, and we may not always find them. Right, We may not be able to get there soon enough

Right.

So here here's a thing that if if we have the power to control the final outcomes of our actions, then every football kicked would be a field goal, every golf call set in flight would be a whole and one we don't have it. We don't have the control of controlling and determining that final outcome, the desired outcome of our actions.

We just don't have it.

We can train, we can apply wisdom through lessons learned, just to.

Move that needle closer to that probability.

Right we all we can do is apply our excellence and move that needle closer to the probability of having a desired outcome.

That's it.

We can't determine it. All we can do is move that needle as close as we can. We will go toe to toe with human nature. You're going to be inside you will you will come to that delineating point in your in your career and on the fire right in on the scene where you need to decide whether or not you're going to listen to your instincts of telling you to turn around, or you're going to push past that knowing that you have a job to do and stay mission driven. You're going to come toe to

We can.

We can maintain a soldier a uh, a warrior spirit while at the same time needing a little joct There's nothing wrong with that, all right.

We can maintain a warrior spirit like and still get a little help. I like it. Sure, very good.

So you muted.

Sure, Oh it's a great job, Brett, And uh, we gonna play. We gonna play one more commercial.

You got you got one que up? Yeah, here we go.

The First Responder Center for Excellence is a not for profit organization dedicated to protecting the lives and livelihoods of first responders. Their education and research initiatives aim to bring greater awareness and understand the challenges to the health, safety, and well being of firefighters, EMS personnel, and other first responders too. They are an affiliate of the National Volume Firefighter Foundation.

And you know what the old school health and safety tip tonight. It's going to come from something that Brett just joggled in my well. Doctor Brett just joggled in my head, and it was, don't take this job out on your family. So what I used to do is on the ride home, I would try to listen to something, not like that would get me much politics or anything, on the way home, some music. And I had a rule in my house that well, we kind of came

That's it.

That's all you's gonna say.

Brett, thank you for coming on. Appreciate it.

I'll tell you what it was. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. It was great.

You guys job just right, just just tailboard conversations, right, and baby's awesome.

And my boy over the city news support from the Left coast keep sending me the stuff for Coops podcast. Coops podcast at gmail dot com. For the Cup of Joes in the morning.

We had a lot of jag ops in there.

We had a lot of jacks. You were a lot of guys you were talking about, Brett were actually in there. Ai Audi Aranda is in there.

Oh nice.

I was standing with my brother.

Vegus Momo.

Yeah, yeah, for Suo.

Actually the guy you had said, unfortunately who made the phone call. He was in the chat to the guy called you before when you mentioned his name. He actually said that he was making that phone Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right, gods enjoy When does speak at you next week?

Yes, October nineteenth, this week you gotta be are Thursday.

Yes, we got another show on Thursday. Right. This guy's older than dirt. Right, he's old gil Roy, right, McIlroy.

That's how I say.

Yeah, he's an old guy.

Chief.

Yeah. I think he's eighty something, eighty six. He is umped right now. He is so pumped.

I have to stop him, start telling stories. As soon as I get on the phone, I got.

To call him.

Used to take it. I got another guy on the hook, got on in fifty nine and he was in twenty sixth section two.

Oh my god.

I didn't see any fire that guy. So we will see you Thursday night for the second show of the week. Until then, you know what.

I only.

Go and go Brett, thank you again. I'll see it the big one.

Everybody, all right, guys, for those in the storm's path, be careful, Dylan should be careful, but evacuate. Don't take any chances. Man, this is gonna be a one two punch and a little shout out to the boys is destined. Engine Company nine who accompanied me for a couple of days. I forgot to mention them earlier. So, uh, those guys are heavy. They were They were not only rolling light like me, three three of us on an engine company. But we're gonna yeah, go ahead, I don't know what

Night, all right, okay,