GETTIN' SALTY EXPERIENCE PODCAST - Ep. 8 | RANDOM THOUGHTS - FAST TRUCK & RIT OPERATIONS

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We'd like to know before the start of this interview that the opinions about to be expressed by the guest of tonight's Getting Salty Experience Podcast are that of the guest and do not directly or necessarily reflect the views of the host of the Getting Salty Experience Podcast.

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Hello, Hello, Hello, Johnny Alberniz, Paul Weenberg is back. Who we got Franky Suppin's in there, Robbie Procaccini, City News Support, John Johnson oll Off fellas in.

A little fish, A little fish in, Yeah, little fish.

It looks like uh, you know who? He looks like Kid.

Rock, Thank you? Yeah, yeah, but you know what, it's Saint Patty's Day is coming up. I'm Irish. Listen. If you can have a black month, you can have an Irish monk.

Irish Irish. What do you Moury, Maury Dempsey.

And Ireland. So I got an all down packed right man?

Nice?

Well that's good.

And some beer? What do you have over there?

Some?

Actually I was out there teaching the GUARDI, which is the National Police and the Brigade in Tullomore outside of Dublin.

This is like about two thousand and five.

And I was lucky enough that the owner, the chief there, his brother owned the tavern in Tullomar, so they were open twenty four because I was able a bunch of guys.

So I had my martinis and I did drink the guests.

I'll admit that I don't like to get I'll take the martinis. Yeah, good, leave the gun. Look who's in the James Finel.

Oh, Jimmy boy fire Riders. Great guy, Jimmy.

Yeah, yeah, right, let's do the pledge. How about that commercials first?

Take it?

Well, crazy to do the pledge first, but okay, we'll do the commercials.

We do the commercials first. Were bringing the guests and then.

Yeah, come on, said he was doing good.

All here we go.

I not lie. Maybe we should bring I don't know.

Oh, I'm sorry you.

Here we go.

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Yes, call Vince tonight. Great Flaws gives you the logo for free. Who does it love free? Maybe the funny little Italian guy who love them?

It's free. It's for me, all right? Those two FRC my friends, ready, take up one. Here we go.

The First Responders Center for Excellence is a not for profit organization dedicated to protecting their lives and livelihoods of first responders. Their education and research initiatives aim to bring greater awareness and understanding the challenges to the health, safety, and well being of firefighters, EMS, personnel, and other first responders too. They are an affiliate of the National Falling Firefighter Foundation.

All right, tonight, it's old school health and safety tip, dude, I know we say it all the time, early detection. You don't get everything checked out, But I'll tell you what, guys forget all the time the skin. Mike, you gotta get the skin. Check that out with the ultra violet rays. Skin cans is a big problem no matter what age are. My son is twenty three. He just had two cancer things moved from his nose. So get the skin done. To stay out of the sun too, Gonzo, will.

You what but you got a little the you know, the good side. I got the you know a little bit of that skin.

Gonzo just sent you something.

We got Yeah, they comes through yet.

Now you can play the pledge. Let's get patriotic with.

Take that hat off from just kidding. Here we go.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, m under God, indivisible with liberty and justice.

For all.

Ammen. Brother, Amen. We've got Todd Swansby in here from Wisconsin and cheesehead.

Yeah. Actually, Todd, I need him to verify what he meant by his statement last Thursday for Peter to train me. I want to know.

Somebody somebody's taking a little hat wow obviously.

Wowings No, not at all, not at all. Just know I'm paying attention. I got your number.

Yeah, all right, he's watching you. Do you get that picture?

Yeah?

Yeah, I'm working on it right now. I'm trying to kill some.

Times, working pick up on my clues to think stuff.

Alright, there you go, all right, thank you.

Wanting the bank the bank.

You know, I didn't realize. I didn't realize that kid Rock had that hair like that.

Like like Mike.

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly to be like Mike.

Yeah.

Yeah, he's got a few more shekels than I think. Maybe maybe now.

Yeah, I'm doing all right. I I you know, I'm on a limited income, but I understand.

All right, I mean what you're saying, man, watch the money a little bit.

Who wants to start off? I want to start off.

No, we can let mister Miller. He's the guy. We'll let him come in. I'm not just trying where we can let the.

Yeah, okay, here's the deal. This was a tough week for a lot of guys on the job.

Monday was I think the thirtieth anniversary of Tom William Blind to Do to Death. Yesterday was the ninety three attack of the World Trade Center.

If I'm not mistaken it, Oh no, that was, Yeah, today was the explose I forgot to I forgot my phone. The phone the phone explosion.

With seventy five, nineteen seventy five.

So it's been a long week.

And then hopefully some of us will be able to get a chance to go to the hundredth anniversary of.

Rescue Two's Saturday, I believe right.

Yes, Saturday at the Stirling Place in Brooklyn. It's centennial, So I hope they'll go there and beat up on Liam a little bit, bring him down to size.

Yeah, and I'm also going to do the nexte your proby, it was your approbate when he when he got to four.

Basically yeah, except I had to go like that. Yeah, a big guy.

And then uh I bought the cubes and Louis earlier that uh I was gracious, graciously and invited on the fourth, April fifth and six to do a seminar and a walk through at the story of explosion off for this day. So I'm looking forward to doing that with the National Form fire Fight his Foundation. So you know, we all do what then we all play it four which is good.

Where is that taking place, Mike at the Rock? At the Rock?

Okay, I have fifty people from what I was told, and.

Can anybody go or you gotta get tickets for it or.

You work, you need tickets if you want to go.

I think coach will fucking we'll just crash that thing. When is it?

I was.

Fifty two people throw some tomatoes like I'm George Bush and we're breaking it out.

I'm gonna do it like no, I'm gonna throw my shoe like that guy.

Yeah, that guy, Yeah, the first one.

Great reflexes.

Yeah, he had that funny laugh, that smirk on his face all the time, right Bush, Yeah, Bush, Yeah.

Johnny first and I talked to Lamb at h at the Long Island Show and he may come on and do something for the centennial.

Lose would be great.

Yeah, you guys you mentioned the show. Frankie wanted me to share that with you guys real quick before you get started.

There you go, Frankie, Fat Daddy, ray Me, Mikey Milna los again. I'm just kidding.

There's Milner, there's the mill.

There's a lot of dust in that picture. Mike.

I was before flush toilets.

It's rough.

I don't get any respect.

You got guys at the rock passing out and guys hard about doing homework.

I mean, what's going on.

I don't know what the generation, bro.

Yeah, it is a new generation.

Yeah, uh huh sure.

So so where do you want to start? Mike?

First of all, let's let's talk about stats for May days and all that. It's pretty it's pretty sobering.

Well, if you're also Mike, I'm sorry to meet interrupt, but take a look at this hell for your stats, because this is what I have. If anything, if you want to use this as a little bit of a reference as well.

Yeah, okay, I appreciate that. I don't know what year that is. These are is like twenty three.

This is a lot of the stats that I have or something that I'll mention later on today come courtesy of a friend of you, as a friend of mine, good friend of mine, Rober Miraz from the may Oh.

Yeah you're right.

Oh yeah, from Florida. Yeah, I just I work with him on the task force. He works right right next door to me. So right, we got some good stats that I was trying to scrounge for today. Yeah, and minds aren't that's far up.

But I'm always concerned that residential always leads the way when it comes to a line of duty tests and read operations. Unlike multiple occupacy and commercials, where most fight departments can actually go into the building look for violations or do walkthroughs. Private dwellings people don't get permits, especially now with the amount of permits in their court. They just divide rooms and on sub basements whatever they want to do. And from New York City, like Kevin and

You go in with the line.

You event you go to the second floor, but it's already easy to get caught up in a situation where you can't get out.

You know what's funny, Mike thinking about that right now.

I mean if you would have asked me before you just said that and you told me where, would I think more guys get jammed up?

Right?

It would have been the opposite of that. It would have been like in a commercial or something that we don't you know, because we do know.

I mean in New York. I don't know if that's in other cities, but in New York, we know the building somewhat right. We know all those.

Tenements, we know you know, real frames, we know groundstones. That doesn't mean that like exactly what you said that there's a you know alterations. I mean the guys up in the Bronx. That happened to those guys. So yes, but if you would to ask, I mean, it makes sense now. But and plus we go to more of those, so it makes sense in that regard too. But I would think that it would be those yeah, big open spaces that you can get jammed up.

And I thought the same thing, Louis.

For a lot of you, I always knew that it was dangerous to being residential, but I also kind of agree with you that I thought it would be a commercial instead of a residential.

But that's the way it's going.

And now the other thing with may Day rescues, thirty percent of self rescues on their own, they find their way out, and then there's uh interior crews. The RITT team's getting stuck and it drops down as you go percentagewse there you go, Yeah, this is just what we will this a lot. So that's another issue that comes into place self rescue. Once the incident commander hears a may day, the RITT team goes into operations and uh,

The self Rescue is already outside getting R and R.

And that's happened to me and Rescue four, and I'm sure it's happened to a lot of guys on the job, even the volunteers where they they're going in beating themselves up and then they find the guys already out.

So that's a concern of me.

How how can we make that cancel the may day? The one you know, yeah, you know.

What it is.

Well, let me ask you this, Mike, because I'm not one hundred percent how if fe and why does it? But uh, this is something that's gained a lot of traction down here as far as changing the channel's crews that are operating. Basically, anybody interior stays on the channel, everybody else gets the hell off the channel. So I would imagine that maybe the channel changes where some of that stuff may be coming in, and then, as you said before, no one's canceling the may day and or

Guns.

I think he got a point, especially in volunteers in small deparmers, that he'd like to use multiple channels. I'm not a big fan of that because that's when I think you miss things. Okay, But on that point, I would think or suggest that the RIP team coming in, they assigned one of their guys just to monitor the radio for a may day. That's it, That's all he does, and hopefully that can eliminate some of the problems.

Who knows how that guy is paying attention or girl paying attention to the radio traffic, all those the clues that a potential may day could be on the horizon, right right right.

And don't forget a lot of may days aren't even given. You know, the five company comes out with the line happened to me, Engineer Upson comes out, he's missing the guy now, right, away.

Where does he think the guy is in the building.

So the RIT team, or in my case, was the Kevin Daldell rest his soul myself and I think it was just the two of us because we split up and we filed the line in and we took a pretty bad beating to come out to say he's not there, and he finds out he's having a cup of coffee. So you know, there's a lot of variables out there, and hopefully tonight guys will realize you got to take the writ team very seriously.

They're not there to be sheep herders.

They go to work, or they should be put to work in some capacity instead of just wilting on the line.

And told I agree with that. Yeah, and that's a big problem you can have.

You cannot have a fucking truck standing there for you know, to a third alarm standing there. You know you cannot, I mean what you know, let the guy stand there until initially what's happening.

I agree, and then you know what you can do, have another truck come in and then those guys to work.

And I don't, I don't I do hear that now though I do hear that because when I'm listening to try to get these little pieces for the other segments I do. I do hear the chief's calling for another for another fast truck, and they say, we're going to put the original fast truck to work.

So well, the thing is, you can't early on that was the problem because I don't think in FDN Y Mike, you probably know this too better than maybe me, that they were putting a fast truck to work and saying send another fast truck before they had that they were on.

The scene right that they defeated the whole purpose, right, I mean.

We didn't they were. They used a fast truck because shi it was going bad.

So so now you don't even have a team backing them up obviously, I mean the rescuing the squad and whoever is coming in, you know. But the whole, the whole idea was that they were trying to I don't think they do that anymore that now you have to have. Sometimes they put an engine to stand the truck and tell the other truck if he needs somebody right away, they they'll put the engine there until the truck another truck comes in as the fast truck.

If they have a truck question Louis and Kevin at the Rock that they teach any of this as far as the probi.

School, Well not.

I think they teach the fast team now.

Okay, so they all come out of the training center at least with the basic knowledge of what they may happen.

I mean I assume they do. I mean they didn't do when I was down there. They didn't do firefighter removal then, but I assume they do it now.

Right right, Okay, I mean you would hope they're doing that.

You know, what do you got?

Do you have anything on the nature of fatal injuries and five ground deaths?

Oh?

I'm sure you got it somewhere. I have it here. If if you don't, all.

Right, let me see, because what I have I have actually I have this chart here.

It may not be.

No. What I have this chart here is time of day. So when you're ready for this, we can talk about this.

That's fine.

This is time of day related to a truck company specifics. As far as a little bit more broke down with detail, Let's be honest.

Wow, I'm wrong.

Let me know, guys, but most of us worked twenty four so we worked a lot of nights and I always liked the well I didn't do twenty fours, but a lot of guys like the twenty.

Four for a lot think happened after midnight.

Yeah, you look see right there, right, Yeah.

But the thing is at night.

I think, honestly, you'll lose your redge a little bit during the dark hours.

No doubt you're a disadvantage, right.

You're ready disadvantage.

You're if you started working nine o'clock and now you have a job at eight o'clock in the morning, it's twenty three hours into the shift, and now you're going out again. You're exhausted, and you're I think your physical and mental capabilities are low. It's slight, it's I'm not knocking anybody, uh, but we've all been exhausted.

I gotta be honest. Uh.

I can't tell how many times I woke up after a thirty minute run through the rock waste before I was really.

Ready to go.

Uh.

So I think that comes into play the time of day and night. I also think the weather comes into play.

Just think about it.

You're standing fast as the fast struck and it's snowing and raining out. That ain't a pleasant sight. You don't not getting wet. You're working, but you don't want to be standing fast and too long without being put in the work. So all these factors do take away from the alertness and the capabilities of what's going on for that particular fire fight and missing or down.

So Mike, we talked about it in the pre show a little bit. I mean, this is fairly new, I'm gonna say new to the FDNY being what Louis said, like we first get on ninety three.

I think it was somebody in the channel, No, but I think it was like the mid nineties, like it was probably ninety five maybe some time now when they started to fat when I remember we started going at the fast truck to some of these things.

But none of the guys took it. I mean I remember none of the guys took it serious. It was just a chance to go to the job, right.

Not the guy in the chat Steve, we talked about this last last week or the week after that wasn't one hundred percent sure. But so you get an extra engine and truck now automatically. Yeah, So like like we were saying, so you're going to have an extra two work the company's coming in automatic. You know, so filling those gaps in case you needed somebody like right away without calling a second alarm.

Now, honestly, depending on the size of the building, I wouldn't think it would be bad for the incident commander to have two fair strucks ripped rip teams ready to go, because you may have to go and enter that building from different opposite sides of the building. Okay, especially if it's a large building, you can't consider assume that we go in the front. We're gonna find Mike, Milton h And based on the radio chat is a collapsed part.

We still have the rescue and the squad doing that.

You may go into a larger building as a too prong.

Attack with your No, I agree with that because you want to cover the area as quickly as possible.

I got that, and.

Yeah, we gotta go to the.

P Hey, guns put that. Mike just told that though, because I was guns put that chut back up. Yeah, So that was pretty interesting. The units that are involved in the May.

Days, depending on where you are in the country, tubes right, remember of a factor there as well.

So to me, like obviously the first units initially they are fifty seven percent and the second units twenty six percent units involved in the may day.

But what was weird to me was the.

Unit, the actual unit engine ladder rescue. Right in the MS the engine is fifty four percent and the LADD is forty four percent. Like if you would have asked me, I would have said, the ladd is eighty percent and the engine is twenty percent.

All right, now, can I give you my weird what reason why that happens?

Sure?

Okay, I think there's a disconnect between the engine and truck when it comes to multiple ways out of a building. They come in through the front door, just for example, they go up the stairs to the second floor of a private dwelling. When you're the truck company, you're on the second floor and the you got multiple ways out from what the direction you come into come in through a bedroom might be two windows to get out of.

You come into a dining room, there may be two or three. You may have a bay window.

The truck, the engine is very used to having that unbiblical cord meaning the line as their way in and their way out.

Once you disturb that procedure that pattern, things hit the fan.

And I'm not knocking the engine guys by no means it's the toughest job on the job and the most rewarding when you put the fire out. But if you think of it about its legit just parcel it out a little bit. The truck company is always trained to look for multiple ways in, multiple ways out, and I got to admit that when I had the floor above Louis and Kevin Gonzo, you know what, I liked being by myself because I wasn't encumbered with another person to worry about.

It was me, So if I had to get out, I could get out.

If you've got an engine company and the captain says you got to get out of here, he's worried about three or four guys behind him.

M okay, And it's not.

Hard to lose the feel of that hose. Or there's a partial club. Let's take in the supermarket, one of the ale racks goes over.

The ose, loose pressure something like that.

Yeah, so they don't have that mindset of a second or third egress out of the building like a truck.

I was just saying that that's a big that's a bigger percentage. And I would have thought I could be again if.

I would have never thought rescues were one percent and you just looked at the stats for this and of course from twenty fifteen to twenty one, so it's not two far.

You can also add to that, guys, the fact that, guess what, the engines always are their first do so they're always the first in the building. So they're in there a lot longer than the truck company or the second engine.

So they're.

What s word I want to use, they're feeling more of the danger because they're in there longer and their first there. So that may end into the the percentage wise of LOUI. As far as truck versus.

Well, I think Ray ray uh brought up a good point.

I was just gonna mention this.

Yeah, so that's a good point because you know when you went through the window on the floor above, if I went in through the window, you you started taking your your points right you get on the right wall, you know, I here's the couch.

As this is that you're.

Taking points when you're in the engine, you're just stretching in to that spot. Now, something happens if you lose the line like Ray's saying, now, all of a sudden you don't have any you have no marking.

Somebody flipped something on top of them.

Yeah right, yeah, in that regard, I could say, you know, that's a definite I've seen that too, Like you know what guys get there could be two feet from the line and they just don't know where these they didn't take any marks.

It's almost like a uber drive losing his GPS.

He screwed.

So once you lose that physical contact with the line as an engine guy, you're in trouble.

Yeah, that's where the guys can't be afraid. This is the message we can send too, is the guy shouldn't be afraid to call that may day. It's almost like the I don't want to bring the mental health element to it, but guys are like, call the may day early. If you loosen disoriented, that's one of the first things you want to go ahead and do. Get the guys coming to you, and so maybe you get a chance to regroup while you rEFInd the hose line and waver.

The case may be gonzo on that you're one hundred percent right, But the part part of the problem is think of it from the police offices. They're not dead if they do something similar that they go to the rubber room. So it depends on the culture of each fire at department.

The culture is culture, definitely fdmy.

I don't think there's anybody that's gonna beat the shit out of you for calling the may day.

Okay, I really don't.

Now, you go to small departments or a Volley house where they you know, guys are drink, eating wheaties and working out, and they got this pumped up buying like they're the king.

Shit.

They may look at it differently, and you know, the last thing you need for a.

Guy to give him may day and then it's it's rescinded because he finds his way out.

He doesn't need to get his balls busted. He didn't do it to put people in danger.

He at that particular time to when he was a problem, he needed to get out and he was scared, and that's that's fine.

I get scared too in the job. He made a may day.

So I think the culture has to be brought into it for guys to want to give may days without any repercussions.

I think it's also good.

I was going to say that the young guys might be more afraid to give you know, listen, if you if you got twenty years, you know, and you've been going to fires, you probably have a pretty good idea, like when you're in trouble, like somewhat right, so.

You got the experience on your bill too, all.

Right exactly, So you might not you might know, you might not give it right away, but you're probably not waiting till the last minute either. I would think, you know, like even for myself. But if you're a young guy and you're just thoughting, you don't really know.

No, you don't have scared. You may think you're.

You don't have enough experience, so you might hold it because one you're embarrassed because you you know, you're new.

You know.

That type of thing is is where I think guys might probably get jammed up more, but maybe not.

I don't know.

Now you've got a good point. I mean, it's all variable.

I mean the volunteer rit teams are different from a career and small paid apartments. They're all differently, all operate differently, and their cultures are all different.

As much as I like to say.

Boss and the Baltimore as the same culture as New York, they had their own you know, they don't you know, and you can't faulter for that. But I personally don't think it's wrong for anybody to give the may day if they think they're in trouble and if they rescind it because they found their way.

Out of so be it and just cancel the mayding. But then they again it's a mindset thing for some of our younger guys. If you will, we can. I don't want a stereotype or group anybody together, but I mean, Loup makes a good point as far as experience, could you might stretch it or push it a little bit further than somebody that's uh, you know, even a couple of years on the job kind of thing that might be.

You know, you know what Gonzo, even as a as a twenty five year member, you know what, I had a little bravado, uh tough guy image to a degree being in a rescue and I'll use the square anybody on the job, busy house whatever. You know, you got a little bravado, a little company pride, and I got admit that I don't even know if I could even give him may day.

I'm just throwing that out there.

But culture, so.

That's funny to say that because I think if I ever, you know, whenever I had an issue, Let's say I wouldn't give him may day, but I would be like, uh, you.

Know whoever that's where are you?

Yeah?

Yeah no, but like on the rad would be like, Coops, where are you? Yeah, I'm gonna says I need a hand down.

Here, you know, like something like something kind of like a little bit, you know, like everybody know, I like, you know what that means because my hands on with Salva one time and he was in the attic and he didn't give the may day.

But he got in the attic, he got in a bad place and only and now I never forget that because they used to bring his balls by the he's like oop scoobs him in the attic. I'm like, oh, okay, I think that means that he's fucking jammed up. So he didn't have to give them ay day. But Hopkins and I went up the aerial into the attic. We got the ship reamed out of us by uh what was the chiefs name, Farrell or Faris Ferris Ferris, I forget it was. Yes, he reamed us because he told

Well, you know what, a lot of guys also don't realize an ft on ony, we don't really open up the roof on a peak roof, so that window windows. Man, you listen.

I did a lot of times, and I'll tell you it's hot. You got the knee wol You could go like my arm's length with a knee and there's a knee wall on both sides.

And the window the windows this big.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't believe I'm in there.

Yeah. You put your head out the window and you're like, oh my god, I'm fucking screwed.

Yeah, you guys, pull up that chart one more time. I'm just gonna throw something out there. Pull up the meet the engine truck. Yeah, let me see time of the day information career Units involved in may days. Now, I'm just gonna throw us out there, units involved in may days? Are we sure that that means that the engine is going to get somebody? Or are we are we talking about the engine is the one that winds up giving them may day?

These are all the stats that are people calling them may days, and what the day.

Calling the may days calling the or the units.

Most commonly percentage wise obviously, or who will call the may days? Okay, breaks it down.

Right, all right, that's what I wanted to say.

Okay, let me just change the subject a little bit. We go to a little more on the stats with the nature of the injury.

Uh, the big one.

I'm sure Gonzo has a stat on it, similar to my Uh the debts are higher with a sudden cardiac death, an eternal crushing. Uh, there's those are the big, big ones that are the most cause of a fatal collapse.

Collapse.

Well, this is talking about just the nature of the injuries. Ah, I got okay, just the heart attack, trauma, burns, gunshot, all that stuff.

Gun shot, somebody's accidentally who.

Is now to your point? Lewis on the fixed death by fixed property homes lead the apartments and homes are thirty eighth for the apartments, thirty one for the homes. So once again residential uh situation seeing the cause the most problems when it comes to rick teams going to work line of duties in May days, which we all know why, like Black Friday, the rooms have changed around or a very tight residential area change.

Who knows that maybe the rest ros down there now they in there?

Correct, excuse me, talk to you in Gonzo.

Go ahead.

Firefighters lead in the deaths. I'm sorry to tell you that, but sixty sixty firefighters company officer in seventeen percent for cheap officer. As far as the ranks on far as the line of duty debts and whether a ritteam goes into operation.

Wow, that's that's the sense. There's more firemen on the you know, there's one officer for five firemen.

Right, yeah, yeah, get there a little askew, You're right on the numbers. And then what's uh with the ranks?

Uh, the biggest rank as far as years of service when someone dies is five years.

Of few, which we can all understand the new or they're in a slow company, or they don't just don't get a lot of work exactly.

We say, they don't have the experience of exactly to build exactly exactly.

And then the next largest one is uh, sixteen to twenty years.

Wow, well that's probably more heart attack related than print. Maybe, yeah, I would like to see that.

Yeah, here's a good point too. Uh, fires are more advanced one of the first engine rolls in at two am.

Well, especially in today's fires too, you know back in the day the materials burn today or you know, you're hitting flash over in some serious conditions, very quid.

At noon, there's a lot more people moving around than at two o'clock in the morning, so it gets you know, generally, it's.

Well.

You can also look at it from the point of view that thirty forty years ago everything was made out of wood, plaster, sheet rock.

Now that's a lot of plastic. The TV's are gassing, everything's off gassing. The furniture is cheap.

It's compressed wood with varnish and whatever the chemicals they used to make the wood. And you know what, in the old days, you could probably get on your on your on your belly and take.

The mask off and survive and crawl out following the light.

Nowadays, I don't know if you could do that anymore, take then the mask off and crawl out with the I don't think you can. I think we're so unfortunately dependent on the SCBA because of the chemicals and the warf gases and the heat that it generates, that it really works against us.

If you get trapped. You're really screwed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I am not to switch gears little, but I actually have an FDNY study that I printed up from nineteen ninety eight, or actually my buddy Rob gave me to two thousand and eight. Just a quick a couple of bullet points that I've mentioned and we could talk about it. From one was the average elapse time from A ten to seventy five until may day was transmitted. It was nineteen minutes.

I was gonna say, twenty minutes is the mock.

Man, Yeah, so nineteen minutes for again, this is maybe this is for you guys. Obviously, average time to locate the mystic member was between five minutes and eighteen seconds, and then average a lap time from may day to removal was twelve minutes to twelve minutes and forty one seconds. So who found a member? First? Of all, lomed units seventy six percent of the time, sock units were eleven percent of the time, almost twelve, and your fast unit

And that's what's going on now with certain segments of the fire Service. Because the rip team works so little that some of them must say we don't really need to use them. I happen to disagree.

I think when it comes to may days, you want a fresh set of eyes and ears and troops and not being emotionally attached to that victim that's missing.

So I think.

I think chiefs have to think about the fact that psychologically, who do you really want to go into to make the grib Let's say Louis down on the line somewhere in the building you want to send squad to eighty eight back in now they have an emotional tie with it Louis. I don't know if that's always a good idea, because I think when you get so emotional, you're not thinking clearly. So I firmly believe that a fresh root team has no allegiance to anybody there, because they're probably

They're removing any emotional or psychological ties and they're going in there to grab a guy because he's down.

Period in a perfect world, that's how it would be. But you know, most of you guys, most of the traditional guys like you'd have a hard time fighting those guys away.

But I mean, listen, they're going over whether you want.

It or not, they're going.

Don't believe me, I I agree, don't get me wrong. But I'm just trying to show that in the if this is the real world, that's how I would operate, if I was the incident commander. Well, we take your men out, We're going to send a fresh set of troops in there.

Are they are they? Are they gearing towards getting rid of the riot teams? Is that what you were saying like you're feeling?

No, I don't think so.

No.

I think what's going on, Louis.

I think just some guys and you know, they had, they had the stats to use any way they want, and they probably do. Work a lot of departments I think are looking to say I'll just use the guys at the scene and not think the root team is going to be of value, or why put the training and and and moneies and equipment into having a RIT team in our department when we could put that those assets in other ways.

Other places.

Like I said, I firmly believe that a RIT team is uh spot on. They get to the scene, and I'll talk about that. I can talk about it right now. I mean if I if I'm the retal officer, I know, and this is based on what I read from my thug in and John Soccer, So I'm not the expert by no means, but uh networking, Yeah yeah, and that's how you learn, especially when you're retired and you only can read.

Now, I can't do it, hands on it.

The point being is I if I was an answer commander and Louis walked up as twenty eight, I'll use you as an example as a RIT team. Uh, Louis, Uh, can you send a guy around to the back and give me an idea what's going on?

Because you know he's only getting what he's getting, So a fresh set of eyes come in. And Louis would have done it anyway as an officer. He sent a guy to rear. It's ladded. Is there is there a bulge in the comrciall wall cracks? What are the color? Is a dark smoke? I mean these are things that the answer commander didn't know needs to know especially if the may day comes in and the officer in charge of the RIT team needs to know these things so

But I think the RIT team when it gets there, they got to be put to work, maybe not going to work directly, but walking around the building missing ladders. Hey, they could be a guy laying on the ground jumped out of the building. You don't know, all right, And the way some of these buildings are configured. I live in a row of townhomes and it's the volunteers would show up first. Now I'm not knocking him, but do they really go around to the back?

I don't know.

Well they may not.

They may just light in the front of the building and go, hey, we did our job and are not saying they're wrong.

So you know it's important to get that one guy or set it two guys around the back and give the RIT team officer a little more information that he can give to the chief in charge to come up with a game plan prior to a May day.

Yeah, that's that's part of the training that we're doing doing done here. We're revamping, not let's say revamping. We are doing what they eventually will implement in South Florida where we have dedicated just like you guys you have the fast company where we're trying to it's it's in the works, it's very close to being done. We'll have our own engine company that will be a writ company

That's the only job, chief, that's I think that that's you got the heads up on that, because uh, they should be specialized. They're doing a unique job that's not done often, thank god, and they have to know what they're doing. They're going into a much more serious situation than they normally.

Would go as a regular truck arrangine.

So they're going into a situation where the guy's already down, they don't know where he is within reason, and they're going to go in through that smoking heat to collapse the aisles.

The ceilings already gone sideways by the time they go, so the pot's already on the shithead.

So they need to be specially trained.

I you know, you know a lot of guys don't want to hear about training, but you know what it is, a specialized ask to be the richting it really is.

Okay, yeah, they have it's going to be a minimum staffing of four initially firefighters, and we're even taking it at all policy. We're doing it a step further because there's another element to it because it's not the sexiest job sometimes, as we've already discussed, and how it can people be assigned writ and get a little discouraged. But we're also doing a rehab part of it where some guys might be there for forty five minutes. Now they're fatigued.

It comes time and you got a good air of the So.

What do you say?

Uh?

Let me see what wrong person?

Uh?

Lou another thing that is written. It's met with the show for in front and let him know we're taking a line off his rig because most of the other lines are committed.

Coobs used to do that.

I that I used to pull the line off the front and have it. If we were first due, I would pull a line off the front, charge it and leave it there just in case somebody showed up at the window. At least I can shoot something over his head or anything. I have a charge line sitting there waiting to go with two or three. I forget what we had on the front. Three three lengths two lengths. Once you get the water, you're sitting there anyway, you thumb up your asks, so you might as well do

It's definitely a good tech to have an aggressive show for or for aggressive driver. It's not a have the foresight to stop playing the head. Guff a bit the shit go sideways.

Well, you know what, you can have a ladder of the building. Enough, let's let's so not.

I think in a lot of ways, if the rich sees a lack of ladder in the rear of the building, they should go to work.

Talking about a first two engineer, there was always later on your rate, throw it up.

There was always this balance, Mike, because I used to get uh, like like you like you know in the rescue sometimes you pull up there the chiefs like, stand fast for a second, right, So what is that fifty percent of the time, so you're standing out. So getting back to what you said is, I would say coops could attested this probably every time.

If I was in that.

Position, I would always send two guys to the just go around the building right. Whether or not I ever saw them again, that was one thing. But they were going around to check if something was messed up. They would come back and say, hey, lou this is what's going on? If there wasn't if they never came back, then I kind of knew that everything was good at this point. But getting back to what you were just saying was that it's always this catch twenty two like

You know.

It's kind of like this balance between Yeah, you want to definitely check stuff out, but if you're really the team that's sitting there waiting, then you really have to be if you're going to do it properly, you have to be prepared on as if it's actually going to happen, because you know, if you keep sneaking away, sneaking away, sneaking away, and then you know it's it's going to happen at some point, you know what I mean.

Another way too, and we all do it. I mean when you're responding and I hate to say it this way. Uh, you know, not every outfit in any oh I got you, I got you.

And not all the thing.

Okay, right about so you know, when you're responding, even as a RIT team, you're probably saying, oh my god, I can't believe they're stuck.

But I figured they would get stuck. If there was any one engine company was going to get stuck, it was X y Z. Okay.

So that's part of your tactics as you're responding as a RIT team. You want to know who's coming in, who's there, and you know what, you can judge certain things just by knowing who's responding. I remember when we had the Tom Williams, we knew who were responding, and you know, you play, you adjust your tactics correct exactly. So there's a lot of moving parts when you're the

And I think, you know what, if the culture changes a little bit, you know what, a captain maybe in a slower truck company or engine company, you know what, you can wind up his troops a little bit by making them, hey, chief cool x y Z engine. They are, they have.

Great train, they're well trained, they're well reversed on tactics. If someone gets stuck, you call those guys and you make it something instead of just being always standing there like cheaper, make it something that they call you because you're.

Good at it.

That's getting the repsent, getting the training, concentrating more focused

But going back to the Louis about the laddering. Let's also keep in mind not everybody ladders properly. Personally, when I ladd I like to.

Trim the window. Put the ladder to the sill, make it two or three inches above, so if someone goes in or it needs to come out, they can grab something. Now, I've seen a lot of videos they put the ladder on the side.

Uh too low, too high? Right, Yeah, So to.

The movie's point, maybe by sending a rip team around to readjust where the ladders are, can't hurt well.

Take window bars whatever it is. You know, I don't mind, you know, all those little things. That's how I used to get into jobs, Mike a lot of times with the guys as you know, not as.

A fast team, but as the squad.

You know.

If I how was that and there wasn't much to do, that's fine, right, I don't care. I want to go home, right, I'll go to But if there's ship going on and there's twenty guys standing that in the street and there's six windows down the alley and the fires on the first floor, and nobody's taking the window bars, or there's one guy in o V from the truck probably taking the windows. Then I'm going to say, listen, I'm gonna send a couple of chief I'm gonna send a few guys.

We're gonna take that ship off of you do the Jedi.

The Jedi mind trick the chief. I think I see some window bars down there, maybe.

Next thing, a home, next thing. I'm like, take care of those bars. I'm gonna.

Trick bro. Yeah, you see those bars on the windows. Good idea.

You know what though, I think a lot of chiefs knew that squads and rescues with what they were pulling their their leg they knew it, you know.

I mean, listen, we would taking care of business, but we wanted to get in the building right absolutely. Hey, just just a quick thing, Mike, hold on, Yeah, when your when your rip team shows up, what what are they?

What are they bringing? What are they doing?

Dude? You stole my question.

Well I do that all the time.

To what I touched on earlier about the I rate, We're only taken the essential stuff to get in there and size up to see what equipment you're actually gonna need, hopefully or if they make it to the to the down personnel, and then we'll go ahead and call the.

So when they show up at the command post, what do they have?

You may see obviously this is a full blown I just had a couple of things that this is. I don't I don't remember what department I got this for for us. You probably we're gonna have a tick. Probably we're gonna have the rippack, which obviously you guys all know what for. Oh I can't receive that.

Let me try this one.

There we go.

We got this is scott ripack that we have. The guys are gonna show up with this. If we have a pack tracker that's on the battalion truck. The guys will have that obviously, thrumal imitging cameras, some hand tools, and then they'll they'll be pretty much ready to go.

Are you including in that? Get any hydraulic tools like a rabbit tool or something like that.

We have rabbit tools on there. Again, it's uh, hopefully we have an aggressive officer that would do that and think that far ahead.

But I see that this is.

So, yes, it is on here. Okay, But this is just something some of the very similar setups that I've seen when I was doing some research for that. I would imagine this is a very common theme throughout the United States to what people kind of bringing. But now treating this as a secondary type of deployment, if you will, in addition.

To you and by you too, it does the same.

It just bounces from whatever company, whatever truck is available for that.

Normally it's our third engine company that runs in is our is our routine. But now with this new policy that's coming down the line here, it's it's gonna request four members. So what that's gonna do for me is I'm not rolling heavy, you know what I'm saying. So we got three on an engine and then uh the two on the Yeah, that's my thing. Now, I guts you're rolling heavy. I got two guys on a rescue

Right and heavy. If you got four guys, that means if you have to, you can split it to two teams safely.

But what they're looking for, like I said, going forward, they want a minimum of four people for the RITEAE. Again, as we're moving forward, that's going to be the norm for us down here, and it'll be taking it step further. As I mentioned, you're going to have a dedicated company, just like you guys have the Fast company. You know, we're going to have a dedicated Rick company down here and that's all they do. That's all they're going to do.

They money that comes with that. They're only everybody has their.

Own union down here that maybe that will come down the line, but you know, they want to get ahead and kind of create.

Now let me, chief, let me ask you a question. Besides the big tools, the hand tools like that, the halligan and axe and wall hooks and all that, do they carry wire sniffs?

Oh? Yeah, all of our guys. And that's actually part of the training that we do is where's your whe's your wire steps, what's in your pockets? You know, all those. As you're there as the company officer that's running that RIT team, one may want to go ahead and do a check you know, we got a nice little checklist of training. These are all little bullet points that we have that we're going to remind the crews of as we go ahead and roll this out, which is most

Now, let me ask you a question.

I know Suffie County has a WRIT program, I guess is sponsored by the state. Does Florida have the same type of program for the entire state?

Right now? This is what this basically is going to probably start, other than what each department does on their own based on you know, collaborative we all kind of bounce these ideas off of each other and trying to streamline. So this is one thing in particular that's a big thing that we try to streamline along with the EV policy that we went out recently, so we were trying to be on the same page and do the same things for these specialties. If you will.

So all that equipment is great, but if you don't practice with it, bro, and you don't practice five fight, ain't I mean shit, you're gonna have all the equipment in that basket you want. But ask Louis what was the toughest course we haven't took on the squad fire fighter removal. If you don't practice that, absolutely you might as well take all that shit and throw in the garbage.

We're like I said, there's a nice push, especially for my agency. You know, we were only twenty five years as a career department, but the culture is changing. We have a lot of great guys now and they are so aggressive with training. So it's nice to see and they're doing that. We got a nice routine for the first time. They go out and they compete and it's just, you know, it's infecting everybody else. So they're getting out there for us and really getting the reps in so

I'm sure you're.

Aready way ahead of me on this what I'm about to say. But I always believe in make the drill as real as possible. So in my opinion, you got to burn building. You put a dummy in there, you mask out, you mask them out, black out their mask, and you put them the work and see how they operate under as close to real condition as possible.

Because doing it dry, doing.

It with some smoke, heating and someone screaming and yelling, totally different way of approaching what you're training on real time, real stuff. I think all of us concentrate more on getting the job done the right way than just playing the game for the chief.

So we actually in my new recruit program, which we've been doing for almost five years now, we actually do that. I mean we do Hollywood smoke for the most part. Means when you do an FPA burns down here, you know you gotta everything is gonna get to check your dots, cross your teeth, the whole thing. But so he was Hollywood smoke. But we have the blackout masks, right, and we put them through the and we really make them drag them up, down through to put them in some

Now another here's another thing I think should be with RIT teams. I personally believe everyone should be at least an empty or a first responder number two. Having a paramedic may even be better on that RIT team in case.

We're all paramedic don here. Just so not everybody, mostly people in South Flower or Paramo.

Always I say that, you know what, a lot of the times it's just an intense situation to get a guy out.

It may take minutes, could take hours. So having a paramedic do an ivy, keep vitals blah blah blah, or put on some burned medication or advantages. Uh, to me, that's a no brain But that's just my thoughts.

Yeah.

Well, obviously, whether the patient gets out, where the victim gets out, or whatever it is, is when it will happen. But we're training the guys you didn't get them, and get them the hell out as quick as we kind of safely as we can kind of thing, and then treat them once we get them outside the building, right, I think, no, no, I.

Was saying that.

I think if I had to pick, what we practiced the most, you know, when I was working was either searching or firefighter removal or a combination of both. There was always you know, you can never have enough of that, no matter how much time you have on the job, you know, because you're not always going to fight as you know, you could go months sometimes, you know, just you might be just bouncing through the jobs, you know what I mean.

So I think there was a what do they say that you trained ninety percent of the time, you may have a chance of doing ten percent of your career. Forget what that math is is. I think that may be tied into search as well, if I get what those stats, so somebody else can remind.

Me I used to do the same thing.

We used to go through the you know again, when I think about going through that home made day scenario right where you worked, where you did you know all that shit, I get it, you know what I mean.

I mean, But.

We listened, you know, Kevin can attested us. We listened to these things all the time, like all of the after action reports, and we listened to all of them, and there was none of that. You had to move fast, like like Mike was saying, like most of the time it was it was nobody was getting going to get there, you know what I mean, Like if you didn't move a super super fast and I just got Mike no, I was just going to interject.

Captain Smith of one thirty six sort of a perfect example because it was a sixth story walk up.

I believe I had the roof.

I remember that.

I think Glenn Harris got in the door closed.

It was a Collier's mansion, so he got in and he couldn't get out, and you know what, it didn't take long. He was already dead, basically. And I watched the day on the trun dole to the ambulance, and.

I was that was in thee I remember that.

I'm over the top of the parapet watching them bring Wayne to the ambulance. But he was and they were working on it. But like to your point, though, it doesn't take a long time for the shit hit the fan.

Where Glenn was, I mean, listen, was anybody that's going to get him out with Glenn and a couple of guys from one to thirty six with him. But otherwise, you know, that's the only chance he stood the getting out alive, and it didn't work out.

I just I've just always felt with those listening to those and Kevin could again he could. I complained about this a lot, and I always felt like, this is why, you know, Mike, you were saying it. You know, it might be better to have a different company come.

Get you, right. And I always used to tell the guys, we're family, it's the six of us. This is all we got.

No.

I watched a lot of videos where guys gave may days and everybody, you know, it gets that shock factor and they're standing around right, they're not moving quick enough. And I used to tell them we used to follow that, and we used to study that, and Ice to say, it's only if you're down. It's five guys coming fucking full bar right right. And what did you always hear? And this was another pet peeve of mine, What did you always fucking hear when somebody gave him may day and something was.

Going bad, everybody out of the building. That was like a change.

Yeah, it was so common, and that I used to say, that's what I want to hear when I'm when the room is lining up all around me, all I see is orange and I'm hiding behind the couch, and I don't want to hear everybody out of the building. I want to hear everybody in the building. I want to hear send the cavalry. I want to know that everybody's that's.

Am I going to be?

My thying thought is that the chiefs trying to get a fucking count on the people in the in the in the street, Like give me right there.

I mean, I know we're going back to it. Look at the percentages. That's you know what you're saying. But that's the reason why you don't Right now, we've learned. It took a long time, but this is what we've learned.

It used to drive me.

I mean it was such a common thing over and over and over again that I used to tell the guys, this is what you're going to expect, Like this is going to be your worst time, and you have to know that at least five guys are coming. There's going to be more, but at least five guys are coming. Balls to the wall. I don't care if I'm burning

You know, they had the sheet. You know, where are you? What are you doing? What's going on? Like, dude, get everybody into goddamn bill and where's the water? Get more water? Get you know, whatever it is. You know, I don't know.

Oh, you know what?

You bring up a good point low. There is a disconnect because I don't know enough chief offices in any job have the experience of a may day or a collapse or something like that. And I don't wish that on anybody.

But you're doing that now. They're practicing. That's that's much more happening now, and I think.

That's important that they get to understand the fundamentals of what a rapid intervention team does so that when they do approach the command center, he's got a better ideas, feel more comfortable knowing from watching them observing them doing training.

Now I can count on these guys to go in and get firefighter x Y z uh so.

I think it's important that from the chiefs down that they're all involved with these trainings. Uh so that when an unknown company comes up as a root team, he can put them the work feeling confident enough they can do their job.

Uh huh.

I want to make sure we got a little bit of a who is the guy again?

Forgot? Forgive me, I can't remember.

Okay, the boss in the engine up in uh I think it was in Harlem that UH got. You know, they were running out of air and he got me again. He lost the line ended up behind the bar in uh in one of those and they had they had the video outside and that's what you saw, like you

You know, into that I forget, I forget who it was Davidson. It was Davidson. Thank you, Joe.

So my pet Peeve roof is when they when they do give the may Day is number one fifteen thousand pass alongs going off. Dude, check your pass along. We're really looking for one. And the other one is stay the fuck off the radio. If you don't have something to say that's urgent or to do with the may Day, stay off the radio. I don't want to hear it.

I give it Jack saying what you're saying, Coops. Early on we didn't have the the alert button right to give you extra water. So I mean that definitely helped that situation.

I think Patty Lee had said something earlier about the radios.

You know, we'd cut off the may Day constantly be trying to Can you imagine he's trying to tell you his dying, fucking last words, and you know they got some guys because he's not paying attention, you know what I mean.

It was.

It was countless times.

You can hear it like that, you know, like absolutely absolutely.

That definitely helped. That definitely helped that that alarm, no doubt, that was a good I.

Mean, you ever listened to any every fire and listened to. Now there's ten pants alarms going on.

That's going, that'll be going forever. That's never going to stop.

Now, that's that's that's here to stay unfortunately.

Right, Yeah, that's right.

You actually bring up another point for the guys that are listening out there. The big orange button on the radio, the a button. Remember what that does? Do training on it because if you find yourself in a media situation and you can actually push.

That button, practice with your glove or whatever.

Your glove on the ones on my radio. Now the freaking buttons like this is it.

I remember that butt was so small you couldn't even get it with your finger when your finger you couldn't get if you took a glove off.

We just even that might even have it on the shoulder mic too. They have a little ball.

Oh yeah.

I will say this with the may Days, if you're with somebody like I was with Tom Williams, I backed up his may Day because you don't know, like Kevin was saying, there's so much radio chatter that the first May Day may not.

Have been heard.

So hopefully the second, even a third time you give the may date, someone will pick it up and say, hey, we got a problem.

Chief.

I think there's twenty one percent of the times, that's twenty I think it's twenty one percent of the times that maydia's are not heard on the first first call.

Really, so our listeners out there, give the may day once, give it many times as you.

Have to do.

You feel you got a they said may days, and not a may day until it's recognized.

Right exactly exactly how many of those videos, sorry, those audios that we listened to where you've heard the mayday, you're listening to it because we're waiting for it. I think that's a little help. But you could hear they called for it and it skipped dispatcher, somebody picks up on it's like, hey, you got a may Day?

That happened to me when I think we had.

Pete Maslinsky was on the podcast and I was working at two seventy and we were out on an EMS run and we just were taking up in a box.

Came in and we were pretty close.

I think one fifty five ended up giving them may day prior, I think if if I remember right, and uh, we were just pulling up like we got we got a good jump on it. And we were just pulling up and the fire was coming out the front door, out the window everything or something like I forget.

Uh, And.

As we were pulling up, just as we were pulling up, he said, I heard somebody say mayday, may day, something like that.

And I went to peep and we were like, you just give it may day and the cheap we were like.

We pulled right up to the like where the command post was like right on the sidewalk, and I got out and I'm like, Chief, did you know did you hear that?

Did you hear that may day?

You know? Like and he's like, no, I didn't hear the may date. And then he's like hold on, you know, or you know, everybody stand by. You know, we go with there, you know, we go with the may day. And then the guy said something and then we you know, I think we tried to put the staying in the window and all this other ship and then the guy ended up self. Uh yeah, he was behind the couch and all that ship.

That's why earlier we were talking and I said, they should be a dedicated radio guy on the RIT team.

Do to your point, he just looking listening for a may Day. That's it or something that says I'm w F my way out.

Well, I think that the all visions, the divisions now have the RAID and they have they had the AID and they have another guy in the car listening to the radio, so.

You can always the more the better.

Yeah, they call him backup AID.

Yeah, I will say this.

I just want to backtrack on training when it comes to the volunteers.

Uh.

Part of the problem with a RIT team with the volunteers and not all of them. So I'm not I'm not here to put a black mark on any of the volunteers, but from my background, Uh, the problem becomes when there's a RIT team, it's just guys get on the rig and they go there and they're the WRIT team, no training, no clue, never practiced it.

Uh, they give a shit because.

The rig may not even know the guys because they're from another substation.

So I hope tonight that all the volunteers listening, I hope there's a lot of them that you make it clear that you need to have real training and when let's say Sai Acid Fight Department calls for a RIT team, that SIASID chief can be pretty assured that the RIT team coming from another department, is we qualified individual? Otherwise it's useless. It doesn't serve a purpose. They don't know what ge you to bring, what tools, what are the tactics,

They're going into the heat, the fire, the smoke, the debris. Uh, and the fact that they're hearing the may day.

So they got to be physically prepared, train well and psychologically ready to.

Go, right, Mike, when you when you got to the rescues, they were they didn't have the fast teams yet, that's what I'm saying. I mean, the rescues were created to rescue fire. Yes, So did you feel like you guys were called to do that more before the first tuck came or.

Well, I don't know. I'm not going to go into such details. But there was one involving a lieutenant from a Queen's company out in the Eastern Queens. Okay, we were called and the battalion chiefers in the street. He couldn't we couldn't get there fast enough.

Uh.

A lieutenant was somewhere in that split level beautiful home. We came around back, got in there. I followed the line in with Lieutenant Williams and a few others. Ralph Williams, I take Paul Jaeger and I was ordered to hold the grab the line because the fire was roaring, and they got him out. But because politics get involved, guess what you get a unit siddation. I don't want to give my local guys, you know a's and b's and

You made a mistake, We bailed you out. Why are you taking it out on us?

So that was my only sour Tommy I've had with you know, a may day or something went the way it shouldn't right, you know.

So that's another thing that gets neglected sometimes. Might I wanted to bring that up before. When somebody does give a may Day, the focus goes to the may day and sometimes they leave the linebody's got a I mean, somebody's got a man that line you had to put the fire.

On, you know, he took my thunbder Kevin because they don't forget to talk about as we're going to rescue somebody, somebody still does putting the fire out. Yeah, you have to worry about it opening up. Now you can create him. All the flow passed. You know how many things your actions could.

A lot of times they forget thee and then they don't put the fire out right. I mean, I think that happened with the guy down in Foul. Then that happened with him in that small house. I mean Howard Beach, Howard Beach, I think what's his name from two seventy.

Eventually he went down Jimmy Arrow.

He was I think he went down to take the line though, because they just everybody focused on.

He was actually like didn't have a heart beat, that.

Wasn't available for over time, wasn't.

Available, and came back alive and was available.

And that was.

Loud voice. I'm sorry.

To movies point earlier. Everybody out of the building. Two guys leaving their positions. That creates another the problem. Everybody can't run to get Louis Rufano out of a jam. Otherwise, no one's got the lawn on the exposure, no one's opening the roof.

Blah, blah blah. So there's got to be someone in charge that time out. You stay where you are, and you picked as a commander what teams you want to go after Louis and that he's got to be ye.

That is a commander has to be on point and be strong and and really, like I said, you still have those other tasks that have to be done otherwise we're gonna have more of a problem, just gonna escalate the entire thing. I just wanted to recap. It was thirty six percent of may days are not or missed on the first attempt.

Right, Wow, that's a.

Lot big number. Yeah. So again again, when when you get jammed up, you know you might be you know, know, like it's not gonna be yeah, you know.

I mean I'll tell you one thing. I got ship stains in my underway. I'll tell you what. Yeah, without a doubt. Oh.

One of the things that I think that all guys should have on them person when they is a self rescue robe.

Whether they use it to walk off.

The line to search or they got to bail out, they got to have their own personal safety robe in case they get jammed up, which can happen.

That's a little bit of all our guys carry some webbing, but we have twenty five foot of webbing that our guys carry.

But we uh, we were all want story houses you got to worry about.

We call those sheds.

Yeah, ship, but that's that was a that's a tough topic for my department because I I'm one of a few members that have a full escape system. Uh where I feel it's not necessarily. My argument was like, you want to jump out of a two story window be my guests, but you.

Know, yeah, yeah I did and my lieutenant died, So I mean I can answer that I really quick.

For us, it's not a it's a it's a mindset thing or a culture thing. I'm any guys. Guys don't want to people. We don't do that kind of thing. We don't you know, we're not in the high rise.

It's high rise, but you know what, you don't know where you're going to end up. Okay, you could be in it.

Listen, you're building your neighborhood's building. Hot stories get higher the floors. I mean, eventually you're gonna have high rises if you don't.

Have them already.

We have to not like you guys, but we have some.

Yeah, but you know what, you want to be prepared for that once in a wild thing. Yeah, I want to be prepared.

So having a personal rope for my own safe bailout or to branch out over a line to search a white commercial area, you're damn straight. I want to have a biblical okay, because if you don't, you know, you're.

Being a fool.

You don't have We just don't have a safety system. I mean, our guys wear the belts, but they don't carry the rope other than the personal little rope that they have for themselves. Some guys actually do. I don't want to take that away from them. Some guys do carry their own in addition to the webbing stuff that we give them an issue them.

You know what, I didn't like carrying the roof rope, but I carried it. Yeah, all right, I didn't like it.

I don't like carrying the fucking uh welight.

Remember, no, you remember that? That's why you became what I know? No, because I used to carry before the rabbit tool.

It was that.

You remember that fucking tool that you used to have to carry that bigimity Yeah, yes.

That was the rabbit tool. The other one the buddy to the little one.

Little and the big thing was like, yeah, likes with that fucking thing like that big.

I mean it was that.

It was huge.

It was huge.

It was a black vinyl case.

Yeah, it was not a case.

Yeah, but you know what, the chief that mindset, if that's correct, what you're telling me how to change.

Well, we do care.

Everybody has search rope and that's part of it that they go in with it, just that don't on their person. Some some people don't like the uh it does make things a little bulfy. You know. Well, I don't want to I don't want to speak to so I don't want to come across the wrong way.

No, that's okay. If I was the chief down there, who are you? I'm the chief. You're not the only ones those are.

The pomper said, you know some people an f B.

I wasn't carrying the ropes for.

I always had my own bro I always had a webbing and I had three millimeter rope that I could wrap around the hook figure eight and and jump out the window.

You know what, let me tell you something. It doesn't take a high matter at height to break your neck. Okay, you could go out of a one story window and write below you with full.

Off of crownding an inch of water.

I mean, come on, yes exactly. So I got to say something.

I'm an old guy. I was a little hesitant to do the new stuff. But over my years, especially with the line of duty may days, I've been through. You know what, you can't have enough equipment. I'm sorry, okay, and you know what if you die because you don't have the right equipment, shame on you.

I'm sorry.

I tell your chauffeur in the engine says to you, and you say the guy, well, this is my bail out rope, and he goes like this, Oh that's good.

What are you going to bail out on us? I was like this all right?

So your point was as well as gonna mention what Patty Lee's mentioned it, that's how you land if you want to land on you on that little tick tack on your back.

You mean, that's not you ain't going to be swinging the golf club, that's for sure.

You know what a chief when I and I don't mean to be morbid.

When I had the Tom Williams incident, we both came out of the same window I did a little different landing than he did.

He died. I I survive, but I gotta tell you something. It's still a personal matter, and I gotta tell you something. If you're gonna die, you're gonna die.

I believe in faton time you could be in the right place at the right time, the wrong place at the right time.

Fate plays into it.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd rather have as much equipment as possible, even if I don't use it. Like I said earlier to Kevin, I didn't like bringing the roof rope to the roof, but there was a waste of time. I was used to doing coremento ropes and repelling, which I learned from ROCO and a few other organizations for Superior system.

But that's what we use, and I brought it. I was well versed in it, and if I had to use it, I would, okay.

And so you know, I maybe from the old school in a lot of ways, but I was always willing to learn and playing it forward. Guys on the job, in any job, have to realize, not only do you train, you've got to be vocal with your union.

You know, if you don't have a union, just be vocal with the fight. Chiefs say, listen, we need personal ropes that we have up to a belt.

Isn't that what he's doing, Chief de Bonano, that's what his foundation, and he's doing a.

Great job with that, Louis, because there's a lot of departments that to your point, not every department just has one story buildings. Okay, even if you go into a basement when you'd like to have a rope looked up to the top of the stairs to the bottom so in case something goes wrong, maybe you can get out in a hurry, in a real hurry.

Yeah.

I gotta tell you that bothers me cheap that I love the young guys, but it's some season guys.

It's just, uh, we actually we did have them. We outfitted the entire department with him or I still have them on the shelf. And you know that maybe some days something will change where we can we can do that. But it's uh, I was met with some resistance. We'll just say that.

And I understand that the the the issue may be unfortunate. Someday you're gonna have a line of duty death that maybe could have been avoided.

If I'm knocking on.

So that's that's when it's gonna change.

Idiot.

I liked having a lot of Italians. I let them go first. They were expendable.

Uh, David Taddy.

I'm surprised Patty Lee didn't say send the juice. But we're all used domins.

I get.

There's a said Milner down first, get down the stairs first.

Don't tell you you know it's it's and I don't mean to get up the toime.

I like that.

Fuck with you, guys, I gotta tell you not that I felt that way, but I was one hundred and fifty pounds five to ten, so I was always the dope on the rope or the guy that went between buildings to rescue.

A cat or this or that.

And then you know, once in a while I did think, you know what's going on here?

The only you're spendabok?

The only Jew?

Where's Milner?

The only Jew? Call up the Jew?

Call me Murray?

So I get it, Murray, get up here.

But the boat back to Fayeton time.

I was talking to Chief Lea uh recently and he has that book with gold Feeder, the thirty five fires you don't know, And I told him something he didn't know.

And that's why I believe in fate and time.

Uh, Rescue four was already at the toll Plaza going to the Bronx for a special call because Rescue three was already operating somewhere. So that put us closer to the story of fire. So in my mind, guess what, maybe those three guys would be alive today if we started out from what quarters, it would have been a lot longer. So, uh, you know, I, like I said, the chief.

You don't know.

I mean that's why I, like I said, training, the right equipment, the right attitude.

We have all that guys are doing phenomenal. So I will not I won't speak, you know, of the guys. It's a little discouraging that. You know, it was something that we fought hard for and then then when we actually had it to to implement that, there was a lot of resistance that people didn't want to want to do it. I mean, they're unfortunately. Some people were like, oh, this is not fdoy And my concept was just that it could be a two story building. I don't want

It has nothing to do with FDNY.

There was a kid upstate was at some kind of Jewish nursing home volunteer.

It was a lieutenant. Great kid. Apparently he died line of duty given him may day. I mean, he could happen anywhere. It doesn't matter how big or small or how tough.

It does happen everywhere.

It happened everywhere, and you know that.

That's why when there's an argument, well, we don't need to do it in New York's a way. I'm not saying do it New York's.

A way, okay, but after hundreds of guys dying line to do it, guess what, he smartened up.

Well, that's that's always my other argument. That's my other argument too. The history that you guys have, you've you've you know, stayed the road if you will, or created the road in some areas for for learning it and developing these skills. So by for one hundred and twenty five plus years of experience, that's that's a lot to learn from and chief, you know what, the.

The real issue becomes out why I believe in written and all that training and stuff is guess what.

There's the side effects of what happens after a line of duty happens.

Okay, there is a survivor's guilt. The family that you were close to doesn't want to talk to you anymore because you're alive. And how come my husband died he was with you. You're alive and he's dead.

Star of getting invited into weddings taking in one of my situations, took me over twenty five years to make amends with a widow.

Okay, so let that sink into some of your members and everyone watching. You know what, It's not just a may day in.

A line of duty and you go back in the empty plate at the kitchen table. There's a lot of moving parts, the family, the politics. How do you get the company back together again? Okay, there's a lot going on. So when someone tells me, I don't need to be like New York, I don't have to be like that. I don't need training, I don't need equipment.

You know what, when it happens to you, boy, it's not a happy site. Okay, and it lasts forever.

I still deal with the issues, Okay, I fluff it all and I like to have fun like tonight because that's how I deal with it and Kevin deals with it differently.

We all deal with it differently. But man, I don't want anybody to have to deal with a line of duty. It's not worth it.

Okay, So train, get the equipment, tell your union be a volume, and train your heart out because was when it does happen, at least you can say, you know what, we gave our role because we had everything we needed to get someone out of that situation. It didn't work out, but we did our best instead of saying what if.

We could have? You don't want to do that?

No, I agree.

Let's come down and talk to those guys. We'll straighten the.

Speak to all right, you have my little knuckle sandwich, a little sandwich? What what have you?

Is what I'll give you?

Yeah?

So but anyway, mister Milner, what's that? Is there anything else we had to touch on that? That was pretty good?

No?

You know what? Oh boy it? How should put it?

And I'm not bragging, but when you have a black cloud over your head, you have a choice.

You either live with it and make it work for you.

Here we're going to the rock in the next month to talk, uh, because someone's got to play it forward.

Okay. And if if they and tie in with me and realize what I can go through and survive, you can do it also. And that's half the battle.

I mean, it's very easy to cave. Kevin knows it's easy to cave. But you don't want a cave. You got kids, you got a wife, you got family.

Just you want to a list.

I want to be the four million dollar a lot of blue collar winner with my pension, although I want to die for okay, So I do take it seriously.

And there's always light at the end of the tump. Some guys, unfortunately it doesn't work out, but there is a lot of light. And I got to be honest with you. You guys gave me a lifeline by allowing me on the show. Let me be an idiot sometimes in my outfits, but I do it for the right reasons. I do it because I respect you guys, outfit. I love the job to this day.

And you know what, it's easy just to forget about the job, but to have guys on tell their stories, tell their what's about training, safety, kitchen table meals, whatever it may be, it's a lifeline. And I'm not the only one that I get cools all the time because they see me on your show and they call me up and you're a lifeline, you know.

And Uh, I think that we're gonna we're gonna be doing another I didn't talk to Louis about it yet, but I talked to Mike and we talked to Nancy Carbone and she wants to do another show down at on mental health and stuff like that, down at Friends of Firefighters. We'll get that together. Yeah, we'll put that out.

She's got a pictures of your desk.

Who goes to the far hid the hidden past?

You guys, you guys are crazy? What the we hav did you?

Like? I said, guys, it's you guys are a lifeline to a lot of guys.

Uh.

I just had a guy call me. I'm not going to mention his name what's his name?

Guy that called me out of the blue to thank me when I come on and I'm just saying about my own personal stories. And it's a lifeline for him because he's come close to committing suicide more than once.

All right, and uh, this is a big deal. I mean, uh, you know, the line of duty deaths are not fun. Uh, No one wants to do him.

And uh, when they happen, it's just a lot of collateral damage. It affects the company, it affects the families, it affects you.

Uh So it's a it's a rough deal. And like I said, cheap.

Uh.

The guy's got to realize, no matter what the poem that they're in, I don't care how you want to make an excuse. The excuses don't wash me anymore. Okay, I've been there. It ain't worth it. Respect that's the deal.

For sure, I agree on undred percent.

Just he called you a mensch, such a mench?

Yummy?

Yeah, what do we got next week?

If we have a show Monday?

Monday?

I don't even know it was what he got we got?

Uh?

The guy stick a stick a stick, a stick a sticker.

Captain Scotchdale Yeah, where's he from scotch Dale?

Is that Arizona? But he's the guy, uh captain with the coffee guy too? Oh no, no, yeah, is.

Not fire Uh he does the fire fire chronicles all the time. Oh yuh Jason, Yeah, it should be any show. I remember my name.

I think I booked all the way up to April. Now, so the Mike again down at the Friends of fire Fighters.

He's the public coffee.

Maybe tire maybe we'll tire a load on again, Mike. You know what I'm saying. Well, we went there, absolutely, Yeah, that was.

The Richish Schmid retired. That the Richish Schmid retire yet I.

Uh, I was texting with him. He's retired. He came out of the hospital last week. Uh, he's got a you know, I think he's gonna make it, but he's got a tough road.

What's what was the matter with him?

Very serious lung problems.

Oh I don't even know that.

Yeah, because I think I texted him, or I think I texted him or somebody to try and get him on the show, and they told me he was dealing with a lot of help.

Yeah, he's I think he's gonna take a while to recouperate to be honest again.

Yeah, I hope.

So. Yeah, he's got a lot of got a lot of every time I see him, mcsle he's nine to eleven every year.

Man.

The guys, uh, you know, they look forward to his speech.

No, he's a good raw rock. I mean, listen, he's a big guy to you.

You ever see oh my god, baseball.

You ever go down Queen's Boulevard in that rig with him? My goodness, gratus hom I'm like nice, like this rich man. I want to get there, bro, But this is in breezy Oh he's you know, you know what it's like in breezy point. Bro, it's like a three hour ride. It's four thirty on a Tuesday afternoon.

Dude, what were you doing?

Oh?

He is uh heavy metal?

He was.

He was balls to the wall man, never never let off.

One fifty four guy.

Yeah right, yeah, yeah, look got Jimmy ammon coming on to four.

Good stuff, Michael, Thank you for coming on right.

Are you gonna have that daily on with the new book or by chance or what books?

Uh?

Yeah, I don't think. I don't know we're gonna I don't think. He His wife said they can't he's not able to do it. Oh okay, I'm pretty sure.

Yeah, all right, because that looks like an interesting book.

Yeah yeah, I think she just wanted us to mention the book. So when that is it does? I don't think it was out yet?

Was it out?

How about the Andrew Sierra?

Who's that? What do you got?

He's got a book out too. I believe there's a lot of books coming out. I don't know where these guys find.

You got to get the office corner, get him going.

We're gonna do but we're gonna do a show up by Roofie. There's a bunch of guys who do a breakfast, the Jonas, all those guys. If you want to hit a ride with me, Mike, I'll pick you up and go out there.

Yeah I would go, I would. I would come along. Yeh, that's that should be great.

Maybe we'll snuggle up next to Roofie in his bed and we'll sleep.

And I'll tell you I'll say one more thing before I snuggle up with Louis for the night. Is we were in the they saved New York. Now I only speak for myself. I look at it this wayte and why saved me.

That's how I look at it. Brother, No, I think I speak for both of you guys. Thank guy.

We made it out.

We got We had a good time at the book signing, didn't We had a great tigne good stuff.

Coobs laughs at me. Every time somebody comes by, like to.

Ask me to sign the book. I go, I don't you know Louis in the two he loves signing the book.

I just like, kind of like, go to me.

He walks away like one of these you don't know Louis. He's on at a page before me.

Look here he is too much, too much.

I like, guys, Mike, great show.

Thanks, allow me to come on.

We'll do you again. Come up with another interesting costume. But before you got it the I do look like, thank you. I'm gonna call I'm gonna call uh what's her name? Tomorrow and uh friends of right, Yeah, I'll get it. Daco there he is.

You need to go.

You got to complete that, alright, guys. Make sure you watch The Cup of Joe with Fuego every Tuesday or Wednesday something like that. And don't forget the Lancaster County. Me and Roofie will be there. Harrisburg sixteenth and seventeen. I'll be hobbling around because I'll just be ten days out from my niece replacement.

So books.

Hey, I'm just signing books and sit down by rough Yeah, come on down. Send your old lady.

Right away.

Yeah, Lancaster, and we will be Colon will be an Indy, you Indian the third and fourth that they got April right or something like that. There to the twelfth close, eight to the twelfth will be there. Come out and see us. Gonza is coming to right, Yes.

I got to Oh nice, Yeah cool, I will go And finally what.

Look at that? He went right into pete mode?

What yeah? Right, what are you talking about? I don't know. I can't go anywhere with my hands like this. Wait, this is from raw you know what that means?

Man? We go like this, hold on like this guy's n We like this.

For anybody that don't know, they freeze or they fall over.

All right, thank you guys, coming day, Yeah, okay, be safe, don't drink and drive all the other stuff.

On Monday. Until then, stay low and go.

We'll see it the big one. Everybody have a good night.

Alright, guys, don't forget the great topic tonight train, train train, don't ever be afraid to call him to day and we remember down here, we're rolling heavy in South Florida.

God yeah, go.

Ahead. What I got.

All I can tell you is play it safe.

That's all I can.

We got, I like, alright, brother, good night one love you,