GETTIN' SALTY EXPERIENCE PODCAST - Ep.7 | RANDOM THOUGHTS

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We'd like to know before the start of this interview that the opinions about to be expressed by the guest of tonight's Getting Salty Experience Podcast are that of the guest and do not directly or necessarily reflect the views of the host of the Getting Salty Experience Podcast.

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Hello, Hello Hoose, Martiners and Paula slash Agnes and a way. We got held that woman for a couple of weeks, ruffy, you know what I mean. We have a couple of a couple.

Clear out the lungs.

Welcome back to the Getting Salties in this podcast, it's the only one that brings to you know what you know where right?

Yeah?

If I ship to you, stand by stand by.

That guy had to typing era.

Yes, I love unt fingers.

That guyun had that work.

I don't know, Yeah, I could. I could figure something out.

Figure out. Welcome back. Anyway, we missed you guys. A whole lot of stuff went on we had we had down in the Jersey. Sure, I met a lot of guys down there, had a great time, a lot of pictures, had a lot of food, drink a lot of Martini's, I mean stuff like that. How about you kill anything?

I was at the Where was that, guys? I was at the Freak. Where was I? I was at the Freak. We were hanging out the spoiled.

I was gonna tell you, guys, we're having to get in salty freak off if you wanna.

After your baby oil and uh lotion swinging a.

Miss he struck him out, the old freak.

Yeah, we'll leave it at that.

A lot of stuff going on. The Jets win tonight.

I was gonna wear my Aaron Rodgers Jersey tonight.

But are they playing tonight? Who they playing?

Right now? She's playing New England Patriots? This right? And you know it started soon? You know it starts soon, right mind? You once you want want that button?

Guns?

Nextpos it starts.

What is that? Which button do you want?

You know?

And nobody nobody, no, you go no, next month it starts.

It's a different sport that nobody really cares about.

How damn I totally forgot about it because nobody cares about I wasn't on my radar.

I'm sorry, it was just it was one of those today, the tied I told you, I took him a long time to do.

Nobody cares about.

Sorry, sorry, I was thinking next month. Right, So anyway, we have an educacational show on tonight. Bro, listen to these two men, because the facts and the education is just dripping out of them. That's how we got so smart, Captain.

Murphy, I'm smart, Miking.

We were like sponges. They would just throw the ship down. Suck it up, bro, that's what happened.

Paul My and Berg.

Send me an email to sales are getting Salty apparel dot.

Com and we'll let's put it taken a back seat there, Bro, knock him out.

Wow, take a back seat, Take it easy, take it easy.

All right.

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Fun guy, I got the s two old school guys like Captain Hank. What do they think about this new technology when they bring.

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Wonderful. We'll play the other one in the middle and the other one at the end.

That's okay.

We know we need to take a pe break, you know what I mean. We got the old lattice here. We gotta take a pep breaking. Let's let's bring him in here. But captain, my captain, and my senior dude, Roof do it.

You're already guns, yes, So let's go really coming to the stage, Captain Dennis Murphy.

Oh, you.

Play something now, Hank before you your then it goes out.

Happy to be here, and helloa to all my friends out there and leave ahead nation.

Captain, Captain, my captain, thank you for coming on again and sharing all this knowledge that like you did with us back in the day. We me and Louis were just young pups, right.

Yeah, well it's you know they taught me. I I just passed it on to you. That's all.

That's all it is.

That's what we're supposed to do.

And that's what you guys did too, So that's the way it goes.

Yeah, all right, so let's dive right in tonight. We're going to talk about but oh, we gotta get the patriotic my bed, not of the groove.

Your bust of my bulls. Get that button ready? All right, here we go.

I pleasure allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic, for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice.

For all.

Wonderflock. So now we're going to talk about god, apartments, townhouses, what else that, Yeah, and.

All of those that we're gonna lump everything into one. I mean, they are different, slightly different, but most of the fire fighting problems are the same. So you know, we'll just get into it. And uh and like I said, everybody chip in. You know, as far as h if you had a job here, you had a job there. It's supposed to be a kitchen drill. So that's what we should be doing. I had this happen, I had that happen. And we'll kind of let those experiences, you know, feed off each other and as.

We go, all right, well, we'll bring this up here. So we can next airbrushing.

Okay, so we were we had originally we're gonna do a random thoughts, which this kind of led led to. But this turned up being it was such a big topic that we just we're gonna stay just on pretty much guarding upon its because when I started to look at what I had and at different places, I had a lot of materials, so it's just in there, and there was a lot of photographs that I had accumulated on this with the intention of putting into other programs.

You know.

We still got to go in and put it out.

You know.

That's me all the way on the left, Yeah, Joe McDermott, Willie Green, and that's Captain Brennan. Willie's kind of obstructed by Captain Brennan. But that's what he used to do. After every fire. He would line us up like that informally and just ask us, where'd you go, what did you how'd you get there?

What did you do when you got there? So I, like I.

Said, you were under you were under a little bit of pressure to perform, you know, like he wanted to know how his company performed at a fire. You don't see that too much anymore.

You know.

You just you know, you go, everybody comes out now, they take a picture. You know, it's like, yeah, we did a great job. You know, it's like all right, well where did you go and what did you do? You know, and how'd you get there? You know, and it was all it was all, you know, a lot of hard charging young guys that just that wanted to learn their trade.

You know, I think Eddie Kilduff meted it on your show. You know it was it was.

It was a real good place and a real good incubator of good firefighters.

Every company in that area was like that. It was really good.

Is he still around? Uh?

EDT.

Brennan, Captain Brennan passed away about ten to fifteen years ago.

Wow.

The last time I saw him was at FDIC and then he lived in Florida.

He used to go.

He used to be like the one of the keynotes in fdi C. Just about every year. He did a whole thing with the Chief Brunussini from Phoenix that was very well received all time. But he was a lifelong instructor and uh and he was just a great uh, a great teacher of young fine you know. So that that was one of my influences. And the next slide you'll see is one of the other ones that I just wanted to add here, which is John Vigiana, who we've talked about many times on here. But he was

Also, you know, did he walk side of do you guys remember, Yeah, I'm.

Just looking at he's got four as two bees.

Think about it, like you look at so many guys from that era, guys like and you're not all older guys, like guys like Paddy Brown, you know, it's just Jack Pritchett, you know. They these guys just saw such a tremendous amount of fire duty. It was they they were exposed to it, you know, and they uh and they were

You know.

So I don't want to stay on there. I just wanted to mention them and move on. But great teacher of firefighters, go.

Ahead, and I mentioned since it's still not you know, nine to eleven week. Unfortunately, he lost both his sons on nine to eleven U the one that was in one thirty two and the other was the emergency services.

Yeah, John and Joe.

Okay, So getting getting into what we're going to talk about tonight, We're gonna talk about garden apartments, townhouses, some other buildings that are similar. We're gonna throw them all in one basket and just go through the problems that that they that they.

Present for us. But again, buildings like that are nothing new.

Urban departments are for row frame fires for I don't know, one hundred and fifty years now. Uh, but these are the modern equivalent of row frames, and and they're nothing new. They go back to the fifties, you know, the these modern type, but a lot of things have changed. They got a lot of similarities, but there's a lot of differences too, and there's a lot of differences in in the uh, the construction of these buildings over time. You know,

I was just gonna say that they had to have changed that at least forgot right right.

But the thing is how well are how well is the fire protection in the current cocklofts, and it varies widely.

I'll show you. I've got a slide that I saw personally of a building. It's never had a fire in it, but but it's going to be like a fifth a law. You know, it's in two eighty eight areas.

You can do it as shody shoddy workmanship.

Yeah, exactly exactly.

We were pretty lucky they have There are a lot of buildings going up. When we got this, we're able to go in as they were putting them up and see what kind of construction they were.

Yeah, I mean they still are. You could consider them common cock lofts because they may not run a whole block, but they're definitely not separated into single you know, into single units. Oh, you might have three or four units that are incorporated in whatever the square footage of that you know, that county therein I think like NASA I think is seventy five hundred square feet and that has to be fire stops, so that that could include you know, three separate townhouses.

Yeah, that and that varies. You know, that's a that's a big thing that varies areas in the country.

Say that again.

In other words, that numb.

But you know that can vary from me in different areas.

What I'm saying is that we had you know, you do have the common You still have the common cockla you know. That's knowing your area, knowing what your building codes are. And uh, okay, well we got fire in this cock clatter. The attic of this one, you know, is is the firewall right at the exposure four side, two side or is this the middle buildings? So those are all things you have to think about. Yeah, with the fire spread.

Yep, and how how well it's installed, I mean, and look at you know, you go back to the buildings. One of the first jobs I had in to eighty eight was way out east and it was in a row of garden apartments. But they were all masonary, so they didn't go anywhere. It basically stayed within the Yeah, it went nowhere except for the original fire building.

But you look at it now and you look like even like with performance based codes. You know, the the cinder block firewall which we used to have for decades, right, that's been replaced by gypsum board. And you know, how how well installed is it?

The guy that comes in, you know, it wasn't that easy to get through a cinder block wall, like to run a cable line or something. I mean, it got done, but but it wasn't. It was harder to compromise it. You you see this, you know, doubled one inch gypsum board and you see that and everything from high.

Rises for a while like that.

Yeah, yeah, exactly mine something.

Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

So go to the next light.

Gunson.

Okay, So this is this is a good example of a modern a miner set of townhouses. You know, it's it's it's a lot of uh, it's a lot to ask from, especially for mid sized suburban fire departments. This is another. Like a commercial building, this is another. This is not a private dwelling, you know, this is uh, this is gonna be a fire like this is gonna be a minimum of four hand lines, and especially this fire on the lower floors as well, because it's in

So that's a full first alarm.

Assignment, and you know, with relief and additional lines.

And the you know, more than in rural areas. Yeah, yeah, maybe two guys on a rate. And where's the other one coming from? So these guys got their handsful.

Of down here in South Florida. You know, three guys to an engine company, right.

Right, come, let me ask you something. Uh, three guys to an engine pull up? Do you is it common practice in your area to team up engines or does each engine the two guys other than the pump operator stretch the first line, let's say an engine three quarter line into.

This depends on response time, but for the most part, we team up with our rescue, which is the ambulance down here. So we have to end up with a five person crew that can pair up and then they can do a stretch, you know, second engine company, if your water source, and you know, the checkbox of things that need to be in place. But for the most part, they'll pair up initially a rescue with them.

Yeah, that's what they do on Long Island.

They'll they'll pair up companies because a lot of a lot of companies are coming in on the staff, especially during the day.

Yeah, okay, sorry, So I was just saying this picture here, looking at this, like I remember when they were building a lot of the newer three family houses kind of similar to these townhouse types like you're talking about. You would see that the the dividing wall come through the roof, right. A lot of times you would see if there was peaked or if it was like this this like uh, you know, just a slanted roof here, like you would

It could be, but not necessarily. A lot of for a while, there are a lot of like in my town, I can tell you we have we have these buildings that just like he described, it comes through the roof.

It's visible from the outside.

The chief has doesn't have to guess about the boundaries of the fire, you know, or the fire containment as long as it's intact, and that's a big if. But then also we have ones that come right up to the underside, and we have some pictures of those later, and they don't penetrate the roof, so it's there, but it's not that easy to see.

Uh.

And then you have buildings that have different levels and that acts as like the firewall in other words.

Looks like multiple apartments here.

So I'm gonna say, actually, yeah, yeah, it could be, it might not be, you know what you can. I'm always a little hesitant to read too much into any one picture, because you know, you you're just getting on a snapshot. And but as we go along, we'll see better, better images that that describe what we're talking about.

One of the things on this particular building that I see, and I'm not I'm not familiar with it, is it almost it's two story, like you would consider a garden apartment, but there is no separate outside doors. This has an interior interior hallway and obviously an interior stairway, so it's almost I would treat it like a two story apartment.

Building.

It's actually it's it looks like if you look closely at the picture, it looks like it's a three story because it's probably down a couple of steps and.

Document, you know.

But anyway, but let's let's move to the next line.

We'll see. All right, this is a fire we had in my town. Actually these are two and this building on the left is uh.

I want anybody want to take a guess as to what this is a repurposed building? Anybody guess as to what the original occupancy school school?

Right, it was a school and it is an apartment.

But you go in, you go in a center hallway and then all the apartments are off as another entrance further down with the same kind of arrangement. Tremendous voids in something like this. In other words, this was all boxed out. Let's say, in the original classroom had a ten foot ceiling. These ceilings are eight feet you know, over everyone, it's all boxed out. Big fire log. The original school had a big fire log. The cock loft in this thing is like six feet tall or wood

It's gonna be very difficult, I think, man hard on that.

Yeah, it's a phony man sid right. The front of the building is vertical. The brick veneer I believe is also too from when it was converted. But uh, a friend of mine was the go ahead.

So you have two issues there. If it gets in the cock loft, that could be running or if it auto exposes into the mansarde it could just be running around the mansard from left to right.

Yeah, and that and that. That's exactly what happened here.

It got in there, but they knocked it down from the outside pretty quickly, you know, before it took off. But the masonry wall, that masonry wall that the ladder is up against, uh, that goes vertically all the way up and there's a there's a cornice up there. But again you know it's it's a converted building, uh into apartments that it wasn't its original function. Creates unique problems. And then the other the other building is a set

Six years ago.

But again this is at night, so I just I'm gonna point this out later. But look at the parking situation. Very tight for the first three units here, you know, so getting in and out, that's one of the big big considerations is you're only going to be able to get so much apparatus near the fire building.

You really have to be thinking about pre planning that ahead of time.

I don't gonna have courtyards where the dead ended, so.

That I remember three h six had a bunch of those. Three h five had a bunch of those. I think three fifteen had a bunch of those.

Yeah, the courtyard stretches.

Yeah, okay, next light. All right, this is one that you know.

Again it's not a classic two or three story gone but the fire problem is exactly the same. This fire was in Edgewater, New Jersey. There's an apartment complex, all lightweight construction. Over five hundred people made homes on a on a January night, I remember a bitter cold out. This place is right off the HUDs And River and it's just it's.

Right across from like the upper west side.

Yeah, exactly, yeah, and so a luxury a luxury apartment building. Uh, but the construction features are the exact same construction features that we're going to be talking about tonight. So the story is the bitter cold night, wind driven, you know, very windy, which makes it worse. Somebody has a frozen pipe in their in their apartment, all right, yeah, and.

What do they do?

They call the plumber, Right, the plumber comes. Where's the frozen pipe. It's up in the trust space in the ceiling. I think it was on the second floor. So plumber goes up there and starts sweating the pipe to thaw out the blockage, and he ignites the He gets a small fire going up in the trust loft. He tries putting it out. He's unsuccessful and putting it out, So they leave and I think.

They called it in.

But by the time the fire department arrived, it was, like I said, off to the races. This entire complex that you see in the upper picture there burnt down. I believe it was almost five hundred people homeless. This isn't a luxury condominium, and I believe the Yankees announcer John Sterling lived in this place. Yeah, there was a big name that lived in the place that got a little more pressed than a fire normally would. But that that is the kind of problem that you're looking at,

But what happens Murphy shows up right boom, you know.

Dennis Murphy.

Capt these these newest types like this, Like when I think about that, even even by two eighty eight, as the years went on, the newer construction, everybody who's using those metal studs, right, is that what most of these are done with nowadays?

Is it all metal?

I know, I don't think so, because there's quite a few that are a lot of the interior walls are some of the entire building is. I just saw a picture of one. It was the entire building was metal Sea Joys. A little further in, I have some pictures that we took of how those perform at fires. They're in renovations and that new construction, but you'll see it in a minute. They look like spaghetti after that. And I'm talking about the larger Joys, not the interior.

Yeah yeah, right, the big Sea Joys.

Right.

Yeah, So we'll get to that in a minute. But I just wanted to show it does happen. It has happened, It's gonna happen again.

Uh.

And this type of construction is the same construction the buildings that we're gonna be talking about tonight. So okay, God thanks, yeah again we just talked about it before. Not gonna not gonna belabor the point, but get out know your district, you know, know the hydrant locations. Everything's in the computer today. Make sure the computers accurate.

You know.

I used to take guys out driving and I would just be I had the tablet in front of me, you know, the MDT in front of me, and the hydrants are coming up as we're as we're going down the street, and I would just look at it. That's in the right spot. That's you would be amazed how many how many hydrants are in the wrong location, I

You know, some of these god apartments have like medical facilities in them, right, Like let's find a dentist office in their commercial line.

I haven't seen that too much.

The the the smaller buildings, No, I haven't seen that, but they definitely do exist. The podium style buildings where you see like two floors of concrete, uh, construction, and then you name it above it.

I think we got one.

We got one couple of towns over that's I think ten stories. Uh so that's two, it's it's it's eight over two, eight over two, eight lightweight trusts wood frame floors. Right, so eight lightweight wood, lightweight trust floors over two concrete podium or pedestal floors, depending on what do you what you call them. I think most of the time they call podium buildings today.

All right, So, so.

Again, all the hazards that we just saw on that slide on Edgewater in those buildings above the concrete, and and those buildings very often, like you were just saying, very often, those first two floors can be used for a lot of different things. Sometimes they use for parking, sometimes they use for retail and commercial restaurants and things like that. But and I don't think they're that easy

They have to.

They're pretty stringent on the penetrations, right, because you can see if it was a parking garage on the first floor and then and then or on the second floor and then uh, you know, there's a car fire and extends into the wood trust portion in the building. It's it's just like Edgewater. It's it's off to the races, right.

So I don't I don't even be able to hear me because.

I gotta tell you, I got you, we got you.

Yeah. But I as far as me listening, I got to apologize because every almost like every other word that Dennis is saying or every third I'm missing it. So it's like I'm afraid to jump in because I'm not here, and half.

Of what he's saying, you sure it's the internet and not the Yeah, I love the Internet.

It was serious about that exactly.

I'll try to get this in. We're talking about pre plan the way I look at it, a classic garden apartment. The difference between that saying the road frame the garden apartment is not is not a front to rear flat. You're exposed what would be.

Three or a B C is a mirror apartment. So if you if if you have a you know, if you're having a if you have.

A job in the second story, and what's behind you in exposure three is actually a mirror adjoining apartment, and the fire stopping goes from the two to the four side. I've never seen it where they bring it up in between the front and the rear, because, like I tell you, they go by square footage, so that costs more money. Builders and developers are I don't like spending money. So you have to think about what's behind it on that exposure three side, and normays, you know, exposure three rear

So you need hey, did you say something, because we couldn't hear you.

That's a good one anyway.

Anyway, look at the like Hank was saying.

Sometimes, uh, these buildings have more in common with like what we in New York would call the old abilities like tenements, you know, like with with apartments behind each other. But I'll get get to this one here. This is an interesting fire. This is my mother lived used to live right across the street from this, and so this is a whole big development of this exact type of construction.

So so.

And I'm obviously I'm familiar with the layout here and it's my old apartment. This is Eastmeato, the Great Great Fire Department. But interesting story here, modular. There is some trust from what I've been told in this, although I didn't see it myself. What happens is when, like what just happened with my mom, the place, the place gets sold, right, So the next tenant wants to come in, and these are elderly people.

It's a Senior citizens complex.

They want to redo it because generally the place that's being vacated is is dated. So they have a contract to come in or a series of contractors come in and they redo the interior. And that's what was happening here from what I was told, and the contract that came in. And he had a pizza box on the stove. Does that, Hank sound familiar?

Hank?

And who right?

And so he goes to the.

Back of the apartment or whatever. They're not huge apartments, They're not tiny, but they're not huge.

And uh.

He comes back in a pizza boxes on fire. So he takes the pizza box and instead of throwing it in the bathroom sink or just getting an off the sink is right next to the stove and putting it out, he decides to run it outside down the interior stairs. Yeah you thought that, you thought that this only happened in certain neighborhoods.

Jop security.

It's universal, it's universal.

So uh so this guy he drops it at the bottom of the stairs and it takes off back up the stairs and now it's blowing out the front door and cutting off the primary means of egress for both both of the other all three of the other apartments. So interesting. They did a good job. That came in and see the line stretched. It was a one line fire. They they did a very good job putting it out. But I just wanted to point out the layout is interesting.

Right now, I was gonna say, God, you must have those everywhere down by.

You apartment complexes everywhere. I was going to talk about a little bit with that. Just the millionstructure different is the CBS block. The entire capsulates, the entire structure. That's what just dipparate, sorry, differentiates these from what you guys have up there.

Basically, yet guys don't down here.

What I've seen with the garden apartments is that you have a lot with where the second story has instead of a hallway, it has like an out an outside deck. But yeah, outside hallway it's open air into the doors. There's no enclosed hallway, so it's it's.

The exterior balconies if you will, all the way up here. It's very common down here.

Right the next area stairs that you know on either side.

Of the building, and you know the apartment just right down the line, the right.

Floor right, there's no no door that you open up to get and then walk you know, in a stair interior to get there.

You opening the door, you're going to the apartment.

Right, god fully sprinkled, Sorry.

Something depending on when they were built. That was anything new construction now and you know I was we all know the developers are finding the ways to not put complete sprinkle system in. You know, if it's a it was for example, you know, the code is anything over seventy five feet has to require a building or a sprinkles system. They'll build it to seventy two feets so they don't have to put that extra money into and crazy,

So well, that's that's what what I like is what you're still doing down there is the masonry units, the masonry walls that are going up, because that's the best protection from my point of view.

I mean, you just see it over and over again.

This is just this is not you know, this is a multi story if you will type, but it's CBS block hurricane windows. You know, they're encapsulated in balconies all the way up. Kind of touching on what Hank was talking about earlier. Every every apartment is pretty much set the same on every floor is almost identical. You know, we tell everybody go to the floor below for you layout and make your way up to the fire floor, et cetera. But that's what it's very common is to see what you see here.

Yeah, absolutely, And that's good construction, both for storm prep and for and for fire safety. You know, contains the fire tends to be contained.

You know, compartmental, mentalized, I can't even say it. So it becomes a room and content fire basically, and uh, you know it gets up in the roof for it starts on the top floor, then we have to worry about it, go and left and right.

Almost like a project fire.

Yeah.

And it's the same type of construction really.

Yeah.

Well, all that hurricane uh preparation or the block with the with the rebarrow and the hurricane windows, that is great. But the thing that that is bad is like where we grow up. You could have a stick frame house with two by two by six is two by eighth, two by tens is your rafter is everything down here? The house could be built like a tank, but once it gets to the roof, it's all lightweight. Trust whether it's a private dwelling right here, so everything is lightweight trusts.

You know, same thing here. This is your full lightweight trust that is what we have.

Yeah.

And and you know when you know going in there that you you know the clock is ticking. So that's that's the big thing. I'm sure if firefighters in Florida more aware than anybody as to what they're dealing with that you.

Know, hey, guys, those hurricane windows any have any effect on venting or is it harder to break those windows or is it?

Yeah, guys, if they they can a little especially if they're an insulated glass where it's it takes a little bit a little bit more to get through them. But for us, it's it's the guys get gas sometimes just trying. If you don't use the right force mil entry technique to get through them, you're gonna get your ass kicked to be spent special obviously, you know, the time of day down here is how does it been? All those other factors, But they they're not easy to get through.

Really is that what they do?

Yeah, in the middle of it at all, you're gonna get Yeah, well, if somebody doesn't train, you're good. They You're gonna tell a guy that's swinging at that wind taking down there.

That's why nobody takes Why everybody's on the roof, that's why you guys on the roof. Nobody's taking windows K nine.

So now you know the little miniature K twelve if you will. It's a K nine now nine inch blade that we have a general blade on. It cuts right through the glass.

I tell you what.

It was an eye opener for me the first time when I went to a land on there with the Orange County Wow and uh and then I think by you gons too, with the coral springs they had they got they got hurricane glass sliding doors from one of the guys donated and to actually, like you said, you're not breaking it with a halligaan and.

Acts and you can, but you're just it's gonna take a lot of work, right.

But even even but it's it's like learning how to cut a roll down for us like they were they were young firefighters there and then they were cutting it with the sword. They cut the left side, the right side of the bottom. But then they made a doggy doll because it doesn't break, it swings unlam in it. So it was like you know, and then they couldn't reach a pietough. So like we said, well, let's let's

It definitely does. Con that's where it influenced. Now you talk about tactics and you talk about fire behavior. It definitely influenced these these style buildings. You know, doesn't breathe so quickly, you know, you know, so that does.

And you lose that, You lose that that one sense of you know, when you're searching hearing that glass break, right, that's gone, Well.

How about getting out if you got to get out of there, and that now I can't take the glass to get out.

Yeah, I mean you can. It's just it's again it's a lot of work, you know, if.

You don't round are saying his men and then there's men roughly don't know if you'll make.

I didn't think sure.

I don't want to insault anybody. I'm just saying.

One other point. Well, because we're talking about trust roofs here, and if you're a firefighter now and you don't know about lightweight trust and find another profession. But Dennis, you and I I remember years ago teaching and we when we started teaching about with the lightweight trust, we all learned about it because it started here in Florida with the Reedy Creek Fire Department by Disney right in the seventies. They had the gift shop and they went in. The

Wow.

That's when we everybody started, how did this happen? Oh, it's lightweight with trust, and that kind of took all from there.

I was one of the first really publicized incidents of a firefighter line of duty death involving trust. They built that gift shop back exactly the way it was trust and all right after that, so you know, the whole idea of being educated about it. No, in the hazards, it's real important because you know they're going to have that thing rebuilt before your your wife gets your death benefit for a while.

Why aren't they making it in certain places where you had to put a placard on it that said, like lightweight, would trust roof for something? They were doing that with something. I think ai RS in New York if it was yeah.

That's that's all over in New York.

I mean, they were quiet to placard it now, you know, But I think it's optional for a pre existing condition. In other words, if you have a trust building already, you know. So there's thousands and thousands of them out there, you know. I don't know if they're required to placard it. I'm not one hundred percent sure. We were just talking about that. I'm not sure how that works because if it's a pre pre existing condition, I don't know.

If that's all right, let's move on to the next one.

Yeah, I got this one for you. We're going to do some tactics on this. Oh my god, where is that Lego Land Montreal.

Oh my god, there's a building on Leonard Street that looks like it could be the father of that building, you know, yeah, the Jengle building.

Right yeah, I think Brian Kelty had that, yes, yes, yeah, So.

Anyway, uh again, this is just you know, he's a going to partm It's like I said, the quad, you know, you see you can see the entrances a little better. But like I said, it's they were modular. That's another big thing with these particular buildings. And my mother was was amazed at the fire and went in there.

Mm hmm.

It's like the laughing stock of my whole family. I can't believe those people went in there to put that fire out.

You know, like that, you know, I am.

So anyway, joke, know what she's doing.

Back there there? What is she doing back there?

Yeah?

Next time, nice drapped metal on that. So again, knowing your buildings, knowing how they're constructed, knowing the building codes and which ones fit into each group, you know, that's important. We're not going to get into that here. But the upper picture here is a very good photograph, very clear photograph of a podium style building. I think it's only one story. It looks like it might be parking on

Right now, yep.

And they're very popular.

And you know, again, all I can say is they have a lot of similarities with the exception of the podium portion, the concrete.

Lower floor portion with that Edgewater, New Jersey building.

So be prepared.

And then you go to the other end of the spectrum to fire resistive, like this hospital near me, which is very well built, steel, skelt and masonry, you know, the whole thing. It's it's what a hospital should be, you know, as far as its construction goes.

Oh yeah, there's parking what to the which one the ones that they have built by me, they attach a parking garage to these.

The ones by us, but a lot of them have parking garages in the basement and.

On the first five Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying.

The potential that's probably below.

Yeah.

Yeah, So here you go going apartments like we were just talking about. Yeah, and this is this is everywhere.

Yeah, that's a tourist right there. Bro, it's an old picture.

A bunch of my colleagues is that this is one of the slides from the NASA Fire Academy.

Uh.

But it points this out very well, you know, and it's clearly indicated two or three stories in hike, and you can see, as Hank was talking about earlier, the entrances lined up the way they are. There's all different configurations. We just saw ones where they were two in the middle and then one on you know, ninety degrees on

You know.

It's just an easy way for them to to put a firewar.

And how do we identify that pre planned get out? Get out there? Maybe oh bell, yeah, we got.

All.

If you're taking and you're on the on the take, you know, then it's all right, Andy k swimming and miss he struck him out.

Every ten years, that seems to happen, right, It's like a ten year cycle.

Yeah, you have to take an interest in this when it's going up, not just after it. That's exactly I'm saying, because once it's up and then you pull up to this, you're never going to know whether did they put a masonry wall? Is a double gypsum, you know, And that's a great opportunity for fire officers to be taking pictures

So Hank Garo's pictures were still on the computer when when I got there in O nine back when I came back, they were.

Still on there.

All right.

You know you know how it's built.

Mm hmm yeah, because what you have today it it might sleep for decades before you actually have an incident in it.

You know what I'm saying.

I used to always say, you know, my training's out here.

I would say, you know, this stuff goes into computer and we might not need it until the guy and I'll point to the prob.

Until a little.

Tommy here who just joined last week is the chief. You know that maybe the next time we need to use this. But it's true because it just goes It's like it goes to sleep, you know, and unless the senior men in the offices walk it up and go, you know what the problem is with that building? You know what the major safety issue is there, you know. And with all of these, the biggest thing is the interior,

How well secured is that cocklift?

How?

And that goes back to what Hank just said about seeing it when it's installed. And I got a couple of good slides. Hopefully we get to them of a building in Queens that was going up and didn't do such a great job. So they haven't had an incident in it, but we'll see. So move on to the next line.

And here it is.

That's exactly what I was talking of. So so I got a I got three real experienced people here. What is the problem in this in this this building is under construction. This has been occupied for twenty five years now. The web, right, somebody, somebody lives here.

Yeah, what is going on the.

Web using that they're using that isn't b board for the web and the trust.

Yeah, that's certainly part of it. All lightweight components.

It's a huge, huge quad uh lightweight wood trusts as a ridge pole.

Uh.

But this that's not what I'm talking about.

This is that stuck on the insulation. Now what is that thing on the tough one?

Where are you talking about?

Right?

Right now? You have you have insulation that's still creating a void for travel to spread where the two by four walls are. You got t J I as as your your floor joys or your ceiling raft is there wherever the ticos are holding in. So that's just you know, and then obviously you got the gusset plates that are holding together. It is this lightweight would trust that with a little bit of fire, you know, it's gonna h wish I could zoom in on that, you know, I.

Mean, it's okay, I'm gonna tell I'm gonna tell you, Uh, it's not going up to the top. Yeah, that's exactly it. That's exactly it.

So this is getting back to the point earlier about what the quality is of the firewalls and the partitions between the between the units. And like Hank said, you got to get in there when it's under construction. So Brian, Hicky and I stopped because it was on our way home,

Couldn't quite get it up. I'm waiting. This is going to be a fifth lawn.

This is gonna be a sleeping cap its sleeping sleep.

Man, it's snoring away. But man, what a surprise. I gave this to the Deputy Chief and the division at the time.

Nothing.

Heck, have you ever seen trusses married up like that?

Like there's four or five of them there? How many of that?

I've never seen six six eight two eight? Yeah, it might be the web.

I don't think it's that big, guys, don't. That's why there's so many of them put together, either a two by four or two by six.

Yeah, I'd say two by six.

Yeah, And I've never seen that before. And they're not resting on anything.

Looks like it actually looks like it is. I thought the same thing.

Places on it.

They're resting on the two by it has to be.

Yeah, it's it's amazing, right right, And then.

The other two by fours are just there to give structural strength between the webs. But the bottom, the bottom cord is west is resting on a column.

I say.

It does look like that, Yeah, yeah it is because the one is different colors, you know, like flat.

Right, there's five two by fours that it's sitting on.

I don't think I've ever seen that like that.

Yeah, No, it's very unusual.

Brian Hickey and I were talking about it the rest of the way home, and we're going, man, this is going to kill somebody. I mean, this is unbelievable. But you know, but it's out there, and it's it's not the only example of things like this.

It's sleeping, yeah exactly.

You know what.

You know the reason I would have to be that big because it's probably spanning a tremendous uh area, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it was what distance.

These were big luxury buildings, I mean, and uh but rows of them, you know, ros them.

I have more pictures of it.

We took.

I took like twenty.

Thirty like you said, the weakness there besides the the gust plates.

Yeah yeah, and somebody graduated a.

Quarter inch the thing falls out and then it's just it's a domino.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The first ones were actually occupied when we went to this, and you know, I mean two two, yeah, this is that's that's the same thing. These are these are these are ones in the same development that are not quite as far along. So if you look real closely where the vertical wall is on the left hand side of the picture, you'll see that same gypsum.

Board doubled up I think one inch.

If you look over to the right when the ladder is the work ladder that you know, the manufactured ladder. Uh, there's the other one right there, doubled up one inch. That's the firewall right on either side between units. And again everything it's a lumber yard, you know, uh, built on a slab. But everyone that we went in had that little gap at the top, you know, so the drywall contractor really needed some work.

I mean again, was I there when they sold it and they opened it?

No?

Did they finish it right? I tend to doubt it because we saw one like that. I think that one that we just saw, the previous slide may have been in a unit that had been sold already but not occupied.

So in the city of New York, and I think it's still the same. And I don't know. Like down by UK, we are guns, but you know, large commercial high rise and stuff. When it comes time they have to have a separate fire inspection as far as for fire retard and you know, anytime there's a penetration and they have to use a certain amount of a certain

But we all know that.

You know, sometimes there's an envelope that comes across the table and you know, once the walls closed up, it's like no harm, no.

Foul, right exactly, you know the cutout for I know, I was like, man, builders, curse this whole arm in that.

Yeah, that's an abortion.

That thing on the right, I think I should I think I showed you a picture of the building on the left with the cutout with the with the what do you call it the ductwork going through it. There was a there was a this building on the left had a cutout for a c duct work that was almost the entire diameter of the wet you know, so it was, uh so, where's it gonna fail? And then look a look at the end wall. The end wall is Sea Joyce metal. You were talking about metal Sea

Why flood braced right there? Because they need to get some more, some more in there to hold a damn platform up.

Yeah, exactly, And these were in one seventy six is first to area about three blocks in the firehouse. The guy told us that the reason they one of the reasons that they used the metal see joys on the baring walls is like Gonza was saying in Florida, and they used the masonry units to send the blocks right. Well, here they were able to. This is what happens with the codes. They're different from place to place. They're trying to change that and they have to a certain extent.

But this guy told me because.

This was an entire block of these, he said, by doing that, by getting away from the cinder blocks, they picked up enough space between each unit for an entire city block a long block to put.

Up another unit, another building.

Yeah, another building. So that's like the building code seventy five feet. We need a spickle system. Yeah. Yeah, it just went the other way with that one.

And the other.

The other picture speaks for itself. All I have to say is thank God, craftsmanship isn't dead, you know.

Yeah, those with those joys, you're allowed to make a penetration one third of the diameter of the joist without affecting its strength integrity. So right right there, you've got two tandem where they have no you know, the one they cut the whole top cord off and then basically the whole web.

Yeah, the top corner.

Yeah, that's little integrity there, and the other one, the whole web is cut out. So there's there's hardly any structural integrity there. You get any fire in there, and it's just going.

That's a beauty.

Without a debt. Let me just see if I can find where the other Oh these are your sea joyce. Now these were in a These these were brand new, These were in the city. This was in a renovated tenement on Eastern Parkway in Brooklyn, the one picture on the left right. So how did these buildings perform?

I forget.

I had to go to a meeting one day and Brian Hicky and I were working together, So I think it might have been Ray Goldback or Eddie Garerty said they had a they had like a third alarm in Sunset Park last night. But they said there was a big issue with some new type of construction and also in a renovation. Right.

This is the building on the right is the aftermath of the second alarm in Sunset Park where these were used in a renovation, right, not not in a new building, not in new construction. And look at how they behaved at that second alarm. All right, they look like spaghetti right.

Uh.

So you know I thought when I first yeah, I thought when I first saw them that, you know, not a performer, right, And then you see it now and all every fire with these things.

Looks like that.

You know, that's an interesting picture. If you look at Dennis, the one where the see joysts are all you know, the form, that's an old frame next to it.

Correct, Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I believe the firebuilding was a renovated frame.

Right.

So for you New York guys that are watching the young ones, when you talk about the frame, and it's talking about brick nogging in between you you know, the units, that's what all that is what you see in between those charred wouldn't uh you know, wouldn't uh studs, that's brick nogging that's supposed to keep fire from spreading into the next building. But you know, when it's one hundred years old and the mortars dried out, and you see

That it's another building.

Yeah, so yeah, so that's you know that it was a newly renovated building next to that old frame.

Right exactly.

I just you know, don't be deceived like like I was the first time I saw this, And I said, which I saw at in new construction. We were able to walk through it, But I said, now, who knows, you know, because we had no experience with it. I don't think anybody did at that point. And I don't think this will be that bad. It's you know, it's noncombustible, and man, you see it gets exposed to heat, it wilts, you know, it just wilts right away, all right.

So what do we have to do.

We were talking about it a little earlier. You know, I've I've always loved this. That's saying is the single best life saving action is a well placed hose line.

Put it, put it out before it kills somebody or it comes looking for us. And uh and that's it.

You know, we we we tend to get a little we overthink things sometimes today, uh as to what we should be doing and just you know, go back to basics and get the line into operation. You know, you can't stress that enough. You know, it's just get that, get that first line operating.

Wet stuff on the red stuff right now.

It's an old picture, five man engine.

Yeah here right, yeah, but that's what it says.

You know, they did a lot of studies with that, and that's how they were able to justify five man five man staffing and uh, you know, get to remember one of those guys as the pump operator. So it's four guys to stretch. And even today when it's a four man engine and it's three man's three men stretching.

What does the job do?

The job requires companies, especially for the first line, because the job is emphasizing get the first line. That they that they team up engine companies. That's requiet today.

You know.

So that was we were doing that before I retire. You know, it was like oh a second do was stuck?

You know, it's just unless you that don't go right, don't go allegedly allegedly.

So so but what I'm what I'm saying, you know what, again, for around the country, we get spoiled in New York because you know, we do have decent staffing. That's one of the things I've always, you know, said, when when I've I've spoken or talked to guys from around the country, we're spoiled. You know, you go to a place like where Gonzo works, it's a completely different ball game. It's a completely different ballgame.

You know.

I always remember going to Disney once with my kids, and you know, we were never like off duty. And you know, you pull up to a light and a lot of truck pulls up next to me, and I'm looking at how many guys are in the back of this thing, you know, I'm looking.

At it one Maybe anyway you might get a second one.

This is the number one tourist destination in the United States. They are printing money basically in this town, you know, and they can only afford one firefighter.

In the back.

Now, the average person doesn't know anything. They know that there's the firefighter, and there's there's firefighters on the fire truck.

We're good.

But we all know when we look at these buildings that we're staying in and we go this is a standpipe. This is you know, this is a major, major UH commitment of manpower just to.

Search this place.

But if there isn't it, you know, so it's it's there's a lot of smoking mirrors going on these days.

Five more, Darren, at least five more, five more.

Hated. You said that we're spoiled. I don't think we're spoiled. I think we're staffed the way you should be staffed. Yeah, you're right, you're and you know I want you know, we've got friends all over now, you know, Carolina is in Florida, and I would say, man, you know, I can't believe you're getting it done with with this small amount of guys you have.

Well, it's just about calling the UH the alums early and you know, you kill it with manpower with a few trucks. You know, we'll kill it with man power with several several trucks kind of thing, because you need the body.

The problem with that is also a distance, you know, Yeah, it takes longer to get the guys there.

About places that are even more roll than where Gonzo is. I mean, they're ryan with nobody, man, I mean, they're waiting a while for somebody else to come in.

Light were just a driver, you go.

Let me ask you this, because I think in New York it was always the dispatchers had a lot of leeway. If they would get numerous calls and you could hit the phone ring and they would tell the chief, going, listen, Chief, we're getting numerous calls. We're giving you an extra engine

You know.

It's it's changing a little bit, but for the most part of the dispatches they have a strict way that

But that's usually how it is.

But the dispatchers don't have the freedom too, because you guys operate completely different. I wish they had a little bit more freedom to do that and and you know, make those judgment calls when they get the information firsthand. We have a lot of new dispatchers too that we're trying to train, so we're trying we're dealing with that transition as well now too. But to answer your question, is it's really you know, up to the chief if they provide the right information on dispatch, because.

I mean at a minute or two, you know, getting a rig roll and you know that much sooner.

Yeah, difference in your initial like Frank you said, you can always turn them back, Yeah, always turn them back.

Yeah, get getting water on the fire is is there?

It's one on one.

Solve a lot of problems.

Yeah, next slide, next things better, But we still have the rescue problem, like you see problems, Yeah, big problems, right, and then you know removing civilians right there that now you now your hose operation comes to a grinding wault if you've only got one one unit. Yeah, that's the that's the classic promotional exam question. What do you do you pull up and there's somebody hanging out a window like the picture on the right. Uh, but you've got

So what do you do?

You know?

So that that's always been an issue in the fire service, you know, going back forever. I always remember reading an article about the Lady of Angels fire in Chicago and the first two the first two officer on the first two engine was pillaried initially because he stretched the line, and he stretched the line in when they were you know, they were dropping kids out of the upper floors, right.

The reason you just said that in two seconds ago, right, get the line in operation.

It's exactly more lives than uh, you know, but.

We still are going to have we're still going to have the rescue problems, you know, And this is what this is the one thing that bothers me with lightweight construction is it's all okay, it's manageable.

It's manageable. It's manageable.

Like we're talking now, right, all right, we've thought about it, we're aware of it, we're gonna we know how to handle it. But it's always at two o'clock in the morning or one o'clock in the afternoon, that understaffed engine turns the corner. And now mom is on the front lawn and this building which we have no intention of going into because it's so hazardous because of the way they built it. Now now, now two kids are in there,

You know, what are you gonna do?

So next lefe, there's a fire up by us again, same kind of thing, you know, guarding apartments. Uh, life hazard is I believe Jericho and New York. Uh, But again void spaces fire can really extend, and it did, and unprotected cock loft fanatic spaces, which you know are going to vary in the type of compartmentation that they have to limit the spread. You know, it's going to

Yeah, Lou, I mean sorry, that's over note.

Okay, So what do we do?

You know, the general tactics are get a line into operation and then flank the fire on either side to keep it from extending pair, you know, out past the building. So to do that, you know, to the exposures, the exposures on the right and your left, you know, And that's easier said and done. Again, think about the amount

Gun face something like that.

I mean, for us, so you're talking about tactics, something that's coming through the roof, were more than likely we're not going in. It's going to be immediately a surround the drought, our taxes if we can't handle it, because our engines carry on a thousand gallons of water on all of them. So if we can't hit it with the first two un scene it's going to a defensive operation. We're not even going you know, with staffing everything too.

I've been watching a lot of videos putting these videos together for the couple of Joes that I do, and I think one of the most underused tools is the deck gun because I see it a lot, like in Harrisburg where they do a lot of they do a

Depending on the tank water, you know, they we got a good minute burst, you know for some of us two minutes after, just.

Enough to knock get down so just for another engine to come in and get the line stretched or whatever it is.

But we used to practice. It was like one of the first things we did. It became the squad right cat Murphy Cash. Yeah. Yeah.

We had to shut off on the top so you could shut you know, you could start it then run up and then open it up, you know, I remember.

Yeah, and that's the you know, what are they calling it now, transitional attack or whatever, but Wood's attack whiskers, Yeah, I know, and and and it's like, you know, there are times for everything, you know, I don't I don't agree with that, like for a one room fire now.

But I got a picture of a house going.

I don't know if we'll get to it, but over the summer that we used the deck gun and the fire was knocked down in thirty seconds to a minute. I mean, I think more on the thirty second end. And it was it was a fully involved house fire. It went from being an expand operation to an operation now that was contained and mopped up with hand lines pretty much. I think we used the towel adder for a little bit and then and then they mopped it

You know that.

That's that's important. If you you know what you want to skip to that because we don't have that much time left. I'll show you what I'm talking about.

Uh, go to go to thirty five stand by boom.

Okay, yeah, that's a perfect job for that.

Yeah, yeah, you know, just protect the exposures at that point, you know.

Yeah, So this is this is three thirty in the afternoon, okay, on a weekday. The story is that this fire started on the outside, somewhere on the on the side we're looking at.

The closest exposure was on the two side on the b side right, and.

That was getting ready to go sighting was burnt off of the house that's on the exposure foreside that we're looking at here.

People are home for this.

There's a grandmother watching her granddaughter in the house. And luckily there was a contractor across the street that was putting a driveway in or something, and the guys ran across the street and were able to get the people out the back door. They didn't even know the fire. The house was on fire, so it's all on the outside. So it's a little deceiving looking at it. But it's not on the outside anymore looking at this picture, because it got right into the cock loft and the attic,

This is the first two.

Engine on the left, and they get on the hydrant.

For one, you know, luck is on our side. The hydrant is diagonally across the street.

Oh, they hit it.

They hit it with this deck gun. And like I said, they had a great water supply. The hydrant was right there, and this thing.

Was knocked down. That kind of fire was knocked down.

In thirty seconds to a minute, mopped up with that towel ladder and hand lines and literally this operation was under control in twenty minutes, you know, from what you just saw. But again, like you guys were talking about before, Yeah, and that could have that could have been an expanding operation into into two different homes, you know, other than you know that we tend to look at the the tactics, but we we don't look at the big picture, the

So boom, that problem now is not And you know he can ask Gonzo, he's the chief.

You know.

Now, all of a sudden, it's a very different fire problem. It's a very different fire problem. It's completely changed, you know. And like you said, you got a thousand gallons. You know, these guys are running with like six fifty or whatever, and that put that you so, so yeah, this is this is about six fifty this truck. But but uh, you know a thousand you're going to really make a dent today. You know you got to you know, even even using a master stream.

So but if you're an engine shoa, you have to have that in your like you said, you got that in your head.

Bro, you the guy my brother comes to the window, and you can and you can.

Exactly somebody I a civilian, yeah, anybody. I'm not saying you have to throw it in the window every time you pull up. I'm just saying, like you have to have that well because you when you're the show for you have you can get there in ten seconds.

You open it, you're up there, it's operating.

I used to charge the car fire the trash line in the front, that small I used to charge once I got water for the guys, I would stretch that, charge it and leave it right by my pump pedal. Yeah, I mean unless somebody else run a line. If you read you're just sitting there doing nothing. Yeah, so you might as well.

You know, and you got it.

You got it.

And if something goes wrong, something that we're not expecting, you've got something to handle it right there.

So I have no problem with that with the private, private dwelling. But I'm having an internal conflict right now. Can we go back to slide twenty five?

Most certainly.

We have an internal conflict.

Yeah, hold on, let's get that because I couldn't let go let it go by without some clarification. So Gonzo and this is this is not I'm not pointing at you, but oh yes, you said when it's through the roof, you go into an exterior operation.

Correct.

Yeah, unlet's obviously if there's a life hazard or something like that, then obviously life.

Is But my questions so on this type of build, when it's a multiple dwelling like this or you know, townhouse or with exposure, two is connected, maybe three is

Yeah, it would be depending on the building construction. Remember the concrete structures that they're not really going to go anywhere. They may not spread that much further. Yes, it could with depending on the firewall where they're building or how it's laid out. Yeah, well may try to take a defensive stamp and keep it contained to that corner, so to speak, but not put it in that area.

Right, But like I said, any experience I've ever had with the garden apartment fire, like I said, they're not it's not one unit and then fire stopping it goes by Like I said, square footage, you could have three or four units and then seventy five hundred square feet

So yes, I mean, of course it's a tactical decision to be made on seeing whatever you're presented with. I don't want to say completely know, but they if you remember years ago, several months ago, City of Miami had that uh it was an old building, historic building, that court.

Fire was up on the roof.

They went defensive and it started on will say, on the second floor of a three story building. They surrounded dramad with towel at us. So, depending on where they have the access, where they're gonna take that risk, you know, risk a lot to save a lot of whole kind of thing. It's not out of the question basically as what I should say depending on what you're presented on scene.

But for the most part, we got fired through the roof. Like you know we talked about before in other episodes.

Where you know, you may not be putting people in the in harm's way unnecessarily unless as a life hazard.

I'm just adope, fine, man. But like I said of being on the panel here, I couldn't let that slide go and just say I'm good with the next story or attack here.

You know, like I said, just put it in the window, bro, put it in the window.

There you go.

It's got to be the transition.

Right hand and say we protect life and that's a new.

And put it.

Put it on the bottom by senior dude, hit it hot from the yard, baby, bullshit, bull ship go.

To twenty twenty seven, twenty seven. That's okay, no problem, All right, this.

Is this is a beautiful row condos in my town.

Anyway. These are senior citizens housing. Okay, so built on a slab dead end street. This is taken from the dead end looking back at the entrance right all right, next line mm hmm, okay, this is this was them under construction. So this is the end, at the opposite end of what we just saw. The are the entrances, and this.

Is the inside.

So Parallel would would like trust Parallel cord Woodline Trust. But you know, the same kind of fire protect firewall, exactly the same as what we saw earlier. Okay, And just I just want to point out something. Just go back to that previously.

I've loved a little more professionally done.

Yeah yeah, yeah, and probably a lot less expensive too. But I just want to point something out, perfectly legal in the code where I live.

All Right.

You see the on the picture on the right up on top, you see those yellow.

You know what those are? Those gas pipes.

Yep, that's legal pecks. Yeah, whatever it's called.

Right, pet is a new Copper.

This is a Senior Citizens complex. Yeah, I'm just saying what could possibly go wrong?

Right?

So, uh So, anyway, this is why when these things are going off.

From nothing small gas, don't worry about it. Don't worry about Grandma, go back to sleepy about it.

Yeah.

Mention like if you go back to Edgewater and even this this could be the whole building could be sprinkled. But you know, what they don't sprinkles. Yeah, it looks like Edgewater where it started. If it starts in a plan, it's got a pretty good head start because it could be running one side to the other before it even shows itself, yep. And you know, the text could be melting as it's gas fed. So until they start sprinkling those dead spaces, which is never gonna happen.

Yeah, And I think the engineers thought that, you know, the architects thought that, you know, sprinkling the buildings would would be the solution.

And it certainly is a big.

Improvement because statistically most of the fires are gonna are gonna be handled by the sprinkle system of its operating correctly and.

It's in service.

But this still creates a problem once no matter whether it's the fire burns into these spaces or the fire starts these spaces, it's a huge problem because now it's very hard for any fire department to get ahead.

Of it, you know, until it just goes to whatever the end of the compartmentation is.

You know that that that's it until it gets to the fire walls and then and then it's you know, it'll burn until it gets so.

Hey, cap, what have you had any fires or heard of any fires where the fire reached these these pipes and you know, and then it turned into a gas fed thing.

Like I don't I don't think they've had anything in this development.

It's well maintained except for ems runs obviously, so don't even get in there that often. But we we did get a full walk through when it was built, you know, twenty twenty five years ago. But again it's still there. It's still an active you know, it'll sleeping yep, and hopefully nobody has a problem with it, you know, but.

Thank god, is that something that you guys and you guys are dealing with plastic gas lines?

Well that was everything that they are running now is plastic. We have natural gas that comes from the city and some six inch pipes they drop them down to.

The gas lines in the street of plastic.

Now, yeah, that's what it is.

To plastic up.

Were running gas lines like crazy, becuse they're widening roads and doing all that ship.

And staying like if we had a fire and the fire got in there and it melted that, now you got it. I guess fed fire.

You know, what about if you're hook in the ceilings.

And you pull.

Part of the three sixty is for us the hit utilities, and that's part of it. So if we see gas, whatever it is, everything's getting shut off.

Yeah, that's exactly it.

If I'm staying, if the fire is going, you're not, You're not. That's not your first Uh.

You know, you've got three people showing up to fire gases, probably not the Yeah, send two guys down to the basement to take care of the gas.

Not only is this one the one the driver. We'll be right there, lady. The jet plane over there, We'll get to that in a minute.

Okay, next one. I just wanted to show what was was out there, at least what I was aware of.

Yeah, just another development again, man, you could That's exactly what we were doing here. I was tolling the towel at around here with a with a student, you know. And uh and uh, you know, wide open right looks great.

Not at night.

You ain't getting close to.

Every one of those spots. Yeah, every one of those spots is taken at night, you know. Yeah, And this is an interesting set of buildings whereas they have firewalls, Uh, they go up the interior and they are on the under they stop at the underside of the roof boards, and they were they were pretty well installed. But I don't know if anybody has had any experience with fire resistive plywood. They all over the top of these things. They all have five resisted plywood over the over the firewalls.

So that was a long time ago.

But still, you know, there's all sorts of hazards out there that you you know, I'm sure there's plenty that I don't know about, you know, but there these are the ones that I can pascel on.

You know.

Us try to get us.

Try to move through a few at ease and get through, just keep going. These are all these are all those were old legacy very well, but all right, and this is what we're doing. This is one of my favorite slides because it shows that that gun evolution that we saw early and we talked about, plus flanking the other side or somewhere else with a portable master stream, which is very popular today.

One or two guys can get this thing into operation.

It's not like the like years ago, even the Multiversal that they currently use today, or the Stang like we used when we got when I got on a job, I think was a monster. It was a beautiful deck guy, but it was like, you know, it was super heavy. It was like one hundred and something pounds taking.

It off the rig.

Say that the blitz fire, Well, the blitz line we haven't purposely set up for that type of quick operation.

Yeah, exactly.

I wanted one three inch line feeding it and you're and you're flowing five hundred gallons a minute, so that's a significant amount of water. And there's a lot you can do with it. You know, there's a lot of different scenarios and a lot of different building.

This is a video.

I couldn't get it to play because I sent this to you as a PDF. But there's a great video.

This is it online.

It shows if you if you Google on YouTube, or if you go on YouTube and you search for a fire department deck gun or master stream, this will generally pop up and they knock this fire on the left down in in like thirty seconds with tank water. The hydrants maybe fifty feet away and they get water and then you know, they get they never run out of water. It's a very well timed operation. I think they got lucky. But they also did a very good job, in my opinion,

All right?

Good, same thing in a kind of what we were talking about before. You know, you got an issue when the chiefs got the line.

With the word you're getting ready to hit the te hidden hard. That looks like you know, I we all we all have the.

We all talk about these are legacy apartments.

Uh.

I don't know if they trust or not. I would tend to think maybe not.

But but anyway, there's a point where you got to make a decision, right whether it's a room and contents fire or a structural fire. And you know, I think this, I would give a shot. You know this is this is definitely what I would take. But you know that we also have we also have a saying that there's no routine fires, which is absolutely true. Right, you can get hurt, but I am going to make a statement which are probably a lot of people will not agree with.

Second, three guys that are around with that ladder on the.

Already already it's all involved.

Involved is taking that house line and bringing it up a flight of stairs, turning around and putting the front room app toward two rooms, depending on what it is, probably one room, but again one room in whether it's a private dwelling or building like this.

And you're there in a timely.

Fish and that should be a pretty if you if your department is going to struggle with this, you've got a lot of work to do.

You know, this should be pretty forward.

You know that coral springs.

That's actually get in there. They're addressing the exposure. They got portable ladders going up, and they got the first hand line ready to go.

I don't know what happens after this. I mean, this is all I have. This is very in my opinion, this is very managing.

Yeah, mister George, how much did you pay for the new guy? No?

Good?

Too much?

San Francisco.

I'm guessing you should be thinking about a lot of class lat of placement and a ladder throwing that's putting the line.

We do that, yep, yeah, no, absolutely, I mean as far as you know the technique and all that, I'm kind of like not going there on that last.

Picture for the aerial guys watching which way you're rolling in with the rig to get a good set up. Let's think about that. Yeah, yeah, I mean because of the hills, I'm going by the incline.

Oh yeah, yeah. How about how about throwing portable at us on that you know, I mean they were what they do out west on US in San Francisco is they have a wedge or it's almost like a little mini step shock.

Right at bottom.

I ended a training by an officer from San Francisco many years ago, and he was talking about that. It was very informative because in my area we don't have much of that, and even in New York certain areas have quite a bit of it.

But a lot of areas.

You throw a ladder it's pretty much on close to the level ground. But they're areas of the country that is a big that every Fiday.

God is like that, you know that would yeah, yeah, it's already tough doing that going up three flights or something.

You know, like some comes comes by kicks the chock out.

That guy. It's always going to be that guy.

Yeah, you know, I just want to be clear.

I don't I'm not advocating. I don't like seeing deck guns and towel ladders you know, used on private dwellings. You know, I mean, I think you know you've declared it a loss before you even started. But there are times, like we just mentioned, that should not be the routine. You know, the routine should be, as we said in the first slide, is a properly placed hand line, you know, generally through the front door, and that's how we're going

You know that that.

Require different tactics. And again that's why we have a toolbox, you know. That's why we have all these tactics and all this equipment. You know, and you're going to know when to use what.

You know, so master streams which we have right so just yeah, you keep going.

Uh yeah, just uh, just you got to get out and practice with this stuff, like the guys were talking earlier.

Uh and and just know how to be proficient, you know, so like this is going to bother me.

Yeah, that's why I put it.

Really, this is truly fifteen guys on the roof, it would be worse.

That would be the only thing that.

Could be worse.

The roof, six guys on the roof and a guy with a master stream in the parking lot.

Twenty feet away too, in the lot.

Yeah, he's just he's actually simulating rain.

Yeah, the roof is going to do exactly what it was designed to do. Is I think Chief Done said, you know.

It's going to keep the water out except that that's great.

Yeah, but that's again I put that picture in there just for conversation that you know, we discussing, and it's it's it's one of those things where different things happen in different areas of the country, even within the same deplotment, even within the same company. We've all rolled out without the A team, We've all rolled out, you know, with the B or the C team, and uh, you know, things are pretty Every company I know has had a

If somebody will do that.

Somebody can come out of proby school and make a roof rope rescue, you're doing.

Something that was a nice look for the FDNY man.

Yeah.

Yeah, so again again same thing.

You know, poort infrom the outside, but in this case, this is an extensive fire. But again, you know, I think ideally we want to be in there with a hand line. You can't tell enough from picture like this as to what's going on, how long it took, what

Basically, Yeah, Procaccini said he rolled out with the Z team.

Is he the leader of the team.

Way they were thinking.

I know, in other areas of.

The country, right, it's a shift B, shift C shift, and there's always an one of them is always screwing up as something you.

Know it's and the other guys are always yeah, but again what a structure.

But for going back, you know, generally we want to try to at least in my opinion, try to try to make an aggressive interior attack when it's warranted, when it's needed. But again, there are going to be times where you got to go to big water where we've got to go defensive or we got to get and this is this is a training issue. Also is being able to use your equipment. You know, we don't flow water as missed know, we don't flow master streams very often.

One amazing way you can find online. Actually it's not good amazing that guys actually post some of the ship that they I know.

I know what kills me with some of the masters streams, especially with the aerial devices is that's fully extended as high as up they can get it, not even anywhere close near the fire. So by the time it gets to the fire, it's broken.

And you know, I don't understand that. It's not really that hard.

But the thing in the window as close as you can, man, come on.

Exactly, but it is what it is. But like I said that on the.

Very expensive.

But again, you know, limited access, you got to take the spot that you can get. Be aggressive, you know, like Louis you had great Chauffas in one O three, one of the best companies I ever saw far as uh as far as getting an aggressive position, getting a spot where you go, wow, I can't believe they got that there, you know, and I mean all of the companies that I worked in, as far as a lot of companies the Chauffas were all.

So that doesn't happen sitting in the sitting in the barcle lounge.

All right, you got to get out, you got you gotta spot your rigs, you gotta get off, you gotta set them up, and you got to do it repetitively, over and over again, so you get very comfortable and very proficient and.

Yeah, exactly, and you gotta know.

I mean, you see some guys put these things into spots and you go, wow, how the heck did he get it?

There was a job up in the Bronx when they lost all those people, right, we were talking about some of those guys back.

Incredible spots right that you.

Normally don't see guys do with a re amount. But when you're trying to maximize the height, if you the closer you can get the turntable to the building, the higher it's I remember, I remember, but Dennis Conway one day with one eleven so it's only a seventy five foot ladder and a project we used to go to, not a high low project, but it was like seven eight.

Story, yeah, eight stories.

He put the thing in the entrance way you could hardly get by to get.

In and out of the entrance. He put the jack down through the doorway, through the front doorway of the building and set it up and got this guy who was about to jump.

Wow.

Never would have thought to be.

I mean, a towerl ladder on the sidewalk directly in front of the entrance, tower jack down through the front door.

And got this guy.

That's okat, I heard it.

I heard a story one O three. We had projects that were like you had to walk down like ten steps. Then there was a little platform and ten steps right into the back of the projects, right, and they had you know, initially the rig was out outside, right, They wouldn't never have the rig there to take the ladders. But they get a report that they'sbody hanging out the window. The chauffeur goes down the steps with the rig, takes out the takes out the railing, which ends up pulling

Pretty sure I was at that t I was in rescue too, is that right. We all came out of the building and we were like, Holy ship. I didn't think a cruck.

Could do that.

Probably didn't go over well, but uh, you know, you gotta.

Gut it right up to the building. I mean in a place that I wouldn't even Yeah, but that's got you know, guys that know their stuff know their stuff. I mean, it's as simple as that they're gonna they're gonna be able.

To pull that off.

You know that happened tonight.

If somebody did that with your one of your rigs, what would happen? Like legitly, I'm asking, like you're muted, you're muted.

Sorry to make a to creating damage to make a rescue or something like that, Yes, but to make a rescue, to make.

A rescue, I don't think there'd be any problems. You had to do what you had to do.

But if somebody was carelessly, obviously it's a whole nother story. Just you know, you just did it to do it, then there's a problem.

Oh then Gonzo takes out the red pen and look at me.

I'm going I'm looking the other way. I'm like.

A spray.

If Steve was catching all that grief because he he told the guy to put the area the aerial through the wind vent the roof the cock lid he was fed, then through the interior to vent cock loof.

Guys were jumping all over them.

Oh, they couldn't get to the cock loft for this building. And my brother told the one twenty eight truck, take your aeriel and plunge it through the holes poke some holes in on a cock cloth and they could spray water in it and they put the fire out. But they, oh my god, guys who were up in arms ruined the perfect, perfectly good ladder. Yeah yeah, change over the way. I'm like, you guys kidding me.

That's customery for you guys, tool bag space.

He's just saying, Hank, what do you go?

You say something?

Make it like before you couldn't let it go. I couldn't let it come, Let it go. We'll go back to it if you have to.

You know, you know where you don't put a u an area ladder or a towel ladder on the sidewalk, or the outriggers on the sidewalk. Yeah, when you're why, because the sidewalk in the old days had the dead lights to put light down in the basement, you know, so it might be tarred over now with something, but all it is is glass glass, dead lights.

And if you put your.

Outrigger or you try to drive on, if you're gonna end up with your your rig leaning into the building.

And just trapped a little nugget. Hank just dropped a little information, mister George, how much you pay for the for the new guy.

Too much, too much, and it's a it's another places too.

I mean, I'm just glad that the internet worked there because I'm still here and only half.

Of what that is. I'm like, it's awfully quiet, man, I don't know what's going on.

I was gonna I was gonna start sign language, you know what, I should put my hand up every time.

Then I can't hear you.

We'll do this area.

Look, this is the area.

Wine.

My internet will be much better when I moved to market.

Okay, I can't wait to stay over that house.

Because I tell you tonight, it's been very frustrating because of my internet.

That's all right, we still love you. We just thought you're a little quiet mood tonight.

That's all so quiet mood.

Really really have about I think, uh six slide. I look, well, it's just it's just a.

It's a good picture of showing the space limitations in a parking lot. Again, think of this if it was at night and everybody's home, right, and you know your apparatus placement, trying to maximize your truck positioning, and then you know getting effective, you know, getting the line stretched, getting the truck placed, getting getting lighters up, you know, all the tasks that we normally have to perform.

It's a little limited now. It's you know, it can get constrained.

And that last slide and the same thing was was, uh, you know, you're just gonna have to be able to be flexible in how you get your spots.

You know.

So so a good chauffeur and gold always has been, always has been.

Unsung here on. I mean you get the guy in there, mad.

Yeah, yeah, and we all see everybody's got some like this right where there is no spot. You know, it's either putting on the long beach.

It or or.

Or and you know that's going to happen.

You know, you know if I if I did that, you know what would be right under the rig would be like a sump or something.

Ship beach it.

Ah, that's a good one shirt.

That's a good shirt.

As my friend Bobby Graby used to say Jethrow from two fourteen.

The knob is the job.

That's it.

The knob is the job that sounds like another shirt.

You gotta have the knob. You gotta be working that day.

You gotta do. If you do that, you got to put his name on a Jethrow.

That's what Jethro.

The knob is the job.

Nob is the job death Row says, the knob is the job exactly.

Yeah, this is a building under construction.

But again we had you know, Hank Hank talked about a while ago about the hazards of this. And you know we both worked in construction safety fire safety for for a while after we retired. And these buildings are built to burn. And be very careful with these because none of the fire protection systems are in the compartmentation very often isn't complete. Uh and uh they're a lumber yard. You know, there's a ton of fuel. You know, you get a windy night like something like this, forget it.

You know, you can't.

You couldn't get out of there fast enough.

Flagragation. I would say that wrong, but anyway I might. I might not be a brain surgeon. But I think these guys are pointing the road direction the other way.

Nothing worry about across the street. Now.

At least they at least they got over there.

Somebody picked me up.

At least they got.

Porta parties in front of case they gotta go.

It looks like yeah, yeah, they gotta look at who said that.

Tom.

Tom Brennan used to have a saying like when things really went bad, we lost the whole block or something.

He used to say, thank God.

For streets.

Because you know they're they're a natural fire break, you know, or or you know what, if we hadn't shown up, if we had never come here, the outcome would have been exactly.

This is what happened faster, would have happened faster.

So again, this is occupy. Wow, that sedge water and that I don't I don't remember.

I get a look back.

That's a long night.

That's a couple of that's a couple of names.

That's that's get relieved, and somebody else comes out.

Espresso and regular coffee coming up over.

The where's the Red Cross truck?

You know exactly?

And okay, certain, yeah, And.

That's funny podium building we were talking about before. So just be aware, you know, it's a it's a lumber yard. You know, I'm looking at this one going up.

And I have one.

You have them on the residential side too, from you see, just a little both there.

Just another little nugget could before we get too far away in don't assume that all garden apartments are built on slabs. Because I've had some older garden apartment fires where this they've had a partial basement. You know, there's just there'll be cement stairs going down a little well and there's a door, and it might be a room that's thirty by thirty for you know, where they store

Me to this, this is an old bit. I've seen this.

This is from Texas.

You know, I was gonna play it, but I don't want to get a copywriter because I could pull it up.

But don't even don't even bother.

Great great fire, nice job with the fire department getting their aerial into into place.

This this construction work. I don't know if you see it on the right hand.

So he's on the right here on the balcony.

On the balcony, he was on the balcony above and lowered himself down and swung in. You know, he probably could walk. He probably it looks like there's no fire on that floor. He probably could walk to the staircase and walk out of this thing.

At this point, you know he was.

He was so panic stricken in the video from the beginning. Can you can you imagine?

You know?

And I'm on the swinging underneath you.

You ain't out when your.

All of these denis.

Where were the construction site fire safety managers for this one?

There is no such thing.

They don't have texas.

The only reason, the only.

Reason we had a job was because of those guys at the doutschebang.

For us, right, that takes a tragedy, that's right, oh man.

Darkness of that week.

Yeah, look at you. There's a lot of youth going on.

He was using just for men back then.

I feel like I'm back in nineteen ninety eight starting all over exactly.

Good memories that first pictures in front of the rig right, that that's the picture.

How important they would be looking devils?

Huh, why aren't you supposed to do a commercial or something.

Yeah, we got to do it now, I take a whiz.

And did you want to talk anything about this really quick or no?

No, no, no, we we discussed it once before. We could spend quite a bit of time on this.

So it's just astruction.

Yeah, yeah, this is twenty fourteen. I think the CDC and Niosh came out with and it's it's an eye opener. I think I talked about it before. But the one thing to be aware of is that this legacy construction at the top holds up very well. You can see the collapse times are on the right. But the one that really jumps off the page is this one here, twelve inch wood eye Joyce right, Because for a long time we didn't know how that was going to behave. There had been a lot of non scientific studies LA

Look at the take holy right, yeah.

Look at look at just the line below it.

You say, take the same thing with the ceiling with a gypsum ceiling under it goes up to twenty six and it goes twenty minutes up. So you know, something to be aware of. We have a whole bunch in my town that are new private dwellings.

That everybody with the OSB is or oriented Yeah, go ahead, it's oriented strandboard. It's basically engineered wood. It's all little wood chips that are glued together. And again when when when they're not under a fire load, it's great and it saves people a lot of money. But once once you put them under a fire load.

They weaken us.

Those collapse times.

The web birds.

So anyway, but that's that's it, guys. That's a fornight, all right.

We have to questions before we forget Yeah, thank you very much.

Yes you're welcome.

Yes we're gonna be the commercial first though in.

Honor of Hey you sorry about my internet, but you were wonderful line.

They're looking for the exit.

You're the whitest you've ever been.

Roll up commercial.

All right, here we go from Arma tuff. Do you want to do the whole thing?

Usual discrestion?

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You asked me what the fristion coefficient?

Well, here it is.

Coefficient.

I'm such an idiot, I really am.

You'll fly it all right?

Here we go round two.

The First Responders Center for Excellence is a not for profit organization dedicated to protecting their lives and livelihoods of first responders. Their education and research initiatives aim to bring greater awareness and understanding the challenges to health, safety, and well being of firefighters, EMS personnel, and other first responders too. They are an affiliate of the National Fallen Firefighter Foundation.

And here's one of my favorite old school health and safety tips. Physical fitness is critical for ensuring the safety and effectiveness of firefighters. Maintaining your healthy weight is important to prevent obesity related health issues. So workout of gonzo, will you've been crying out loud? Put down the jelly donnut?

And what was that a little gun?

All right? So we're gonna go back to two shows eventually. Maybe we'll see what happens a week. We have on Thursday next Thursday?

Right, if we have the Wallbounds fire, and we have actually a husband and wife who both fought up their fathers passed away at the Wall Bounds fire, and then they met and then they end up getting married.

We'll have Jay Jonas on and tell the story and they'll tell this story too.

So yes, that's pretty cool stuff.

Thanks again, Captain, my captain and senior dude.

The old school tip of the day.

Huh. While I'm throwing out telling you guys, what do you have one handy?

You know I just you know, you know me, I'm just popped into my head, gonce, can we please give it to I don't need the music. You need the music.

Give them music, not that one.

We were getting down dirty with that one. Okay, it's time for we go man, the old school. All right, Hey, you want a solo, you.

Want to bring give it a solo?

Need a solo.

We got.

A lot of times we have tips for all the young firefighters out there. This one is for all you senior dudes that are out there. Since I've retired, I've had the pleasure to visit many different firehouses, mostly along the East Coast, but in other parts of the country. And what I have found is that the young crop firefighters that are out there are just as good and enthusiastic as when we were the young bucks on the job.

The job, not on the job and that's it.

They're safe.

Hey, Roofie, how lucky are we to have this guy is our captain and this senior man but blessed and now we get to have him on the.

Show too with the shitty internet.

But whatever, Well that's on you, bro. I can't help you.

I'm still waiting for the check from getting salty to get my good stuff. But I don't worry. I got to taken care of that second one, didn't you What are you kidding?

I'm not kidding you. I'm telling this off. I don't need tomorrow.

Honestly, I have to apologize to everybody, even especially Dennis, because you know he's usually I'm his wingman when we do these, I'm like the color commentator, and tonight it was I would hear the first two lines of his whatever he said, the first two words, and then the last two, and I'm like, you see it in my face. I'm sitting there like, what did he just say?

I thought he was just getting close to your bedtime you get a little cranky something.

But there's always it's been a pleasure.

So we'll have you out again and again.

And get the new internet when I moved. But I'm not going through this again.

I ain't going through this stuff anymore. All right, Cap, thank you again very much, appreciate your time. Yes, seeing your dude, thank you very much.

I love a pleasure to the chief. He turned from He can take you from jack asconto the serious chief. Conso I tried.

You mean you mean hit it hard from the yard?

You mean, oh that guy right right right?

Yeah?

Almost put almost put seeing your dude out, You won't an aneurysm.

I don't know.

Laugh, girls, Freeze will put the fire right and mud alawn in your backyard at the same time.

Well, that's for sure. Talking in the bed at nights, alright to you.

We'll see your Thursday, cap, alright, by night, everybody, stay safe and go.

That's alright, guys, good night. In addition to rolling heavy all the way, what no, we're gonna say, what was that one?

Federal Q all the way, federal cue all the way, I'm gonna have to make one up for him by.

Hard from the yard.

That's what I don't like that that's been around too long.

That can't be mine.

Alright, alright, guys, goo