The McKinley Phipps aka Mac Episode

on us. Don't get it twisted on code and me dancing for no buttament biscuits. It's Willie d y'all scarf baces in the building. Collectively we are the ghetto boys. Reloaded, Reloaded with another episode of information and instructions to help you navigate through this wild, crazy, beautiful world. In the studio. Mckinnley, Phipps a k A. Mac, what's happening? What's happened to man? Welcome back, Welcome to the same old place that you laughed about. You know what I'm talking about? And the

dream come around. I don't know the rest of the words, but we hung around. Who they need you. Yeah, right here, we need you because we got him on the spot. Well come back, wasn't at your boy played? Yeah? Freddy boom boom Washington? Yeah, Mac man, Man, it's good to see you. Man, you boy. You're a hell of a fighter. Man, You're you're a true You're a true definition of survivors. Let's let's let's take it all the way back. Let's go back to third Ward, New Orleans. All right, how

was that light growing up in Third Ward? I mean, um, actually, my neighborhoo, it was was, it was. It was nice, man, until eighty six came and we all know what happening. I mean, you know, before then, you know, me and my childhood partners, like my manager also that we all played and we had fun. I really know, we was pulling until I started seeing rich people, you know what I mean. So until then I just thought that this is where the way things were. But once eight to six,

you know, hit man, it was. It was a hell of a blow to the community. And how did it affect you and your family personally? Well, you know, of course, I think with every family you have, you know, drugs affected them in different ways. With my family, luckily, you know, unfortunately not on world. We didn't have any junk. It's you know, anybody in my immediate family because my parents, my parents we do right and and and I had

cousins and you know, uncles and people like that. You know that was affected, like you know, either using l en, but as far as in the immediate household, you know, we didn't have any. And the drunk is anything. A couple of my uncles got on it in in in, you know, thirty five years later, I feel hella bad about that, right, No, I can imagine because it had

it had. I watched it, man, I literally watched the change like overnight, like literally like people I respected all of a sudden became like the junkie and the person who was it was almost like a man, the kids, grown ups and the grown up kids because now missing so and so who was walking through the neighborhood you respect. Now he's coming to get that stuff from this little kid, and we'll give him. Give the little kid. He's old, lady and changed. It was said by the man who

couldn't quit dope. Man, please gonna have another hit. And that's crazy because I think the weirdest thing I saw I remember seeing this. A friend of mine went to go make a sale and when he came back, he told me, and you ain't gonna believe this. I said it was up. He told me it was one of our teachers was the person who he was going on sell it too. And I would never forget that. That that kind of you know, just made me put things in perspective a little differently. So how do you get

your mind wrapped around a better life? And how do you go about doing that? I mean, I think it as far as individit, well, I found hip hop man at about seven years old, and it was my way out. Like I in my mind, I think I made it up at I wrote my first round at seven, but I think about eight years old, I made up my mind and this is what I wanted to do for the rest of my life and I didn't. I kind of that is I think was my anti drug. It was that thing that kept me away from I was

so focused on it. And truthfully, back then, you know, the rappers and the videos had a little flashy videos, and I thought they really owned that stuff. And I think that's a good thing because it gave me something that aspired towards and right. Well, it was like a lot of stuff that I thought, well, if I do this, I had a picture of success, example of success, and I didn't see that with drug dealers in my neighborhood.

I mean the drug dealing in my neighborhood living next though, So in my mind it was like people saying he got money, but he lived in his house next door, and I know we're only paying four rent. So I didn't. I didn't mean how old when you're thinking like this about eight or nine? And it was like, well I didn't. I can't in hindsight, I'm giving you what I feel. But as a kid, was like, he don't look like he got no money, you know what I mean? So

people like he said, I drug broke down. So did your parents help guide you to crystallizing that choice and you know, becoming a rapper? Because I know you know you did your little Mac thing at thirteen, you put out your first album at thirteen years I mean that's that's phenomenal, man, Like, who help you get to that point? All right? Well, my uncle being rest in peace. I

just buried him about a month ago. He was like, I didn't have a big brother, I was the oldest, so he was my mom's younger brother, and he was like a big brother to me and all of the guys in the neighborhood. And he was a diehole hip hop fan. So I used to just watch him when he would listen to this or listen to that. And he was the first person I rapped for. He knew

two guys that were inter wrapped at the time. It was a brother named Gregory D and the brother named sported And I was resting Peter sported T, so he brought me to Gregory D. And Gregor D was like he heard me, and he said, man, if I ever get on, I got you. And I was like eleven and so I think the next year he came got me and he had left the group he was with and formed with a guy named Man and fresh from the seven Man and Many produced the first job. His

names like we don't know this guy? You know? Right? It was a guy named Many, Yeah, you know, and I Man like eleven or twelve. He started working on my album with me, and he kind of helped me put my songs together because before Manny, I was just rapping run on song. It was like one long song. He was like, NA, little mag you gotta break it

down into verses and hooks and some structure, right. Yeah, so so many help you put the structure in your songs, right, and from there you you leave your records right, and you signed with which was a Dallas based level, a basic label. Your records was based out of Dallas. So how did you make that connection? How do you get to Dallas? Well, actually I never had been the Dallas back then. I just knew that the label that Gregor

then Manifest was owned was in Dallas. So the guys who ran it were actually one of them had a condo in New Orleans. And I basically begged my parents to let me sign this contract, and they had to sign it because I was a minor, but they signed it with conditions. My parents were like, Yo, if your grades go down, this is over with. If my son's grades go down, this is out the way. So I had to have straight as straight a's in school, and you know I had to go in the studio. That

was that was my payment for being able for my parents. No, I think I may have said damn one time on nah in fact, that you're ready for this. They had a song on my first album called gainst the Group. It sounds like one of the songs on Ghetto on on your first on your first album. Back then, I got the whole little concept from what you'all was doing, and so I wanted to do me against the type song.

And I'm twelve years old, but I think I might have said no, man, it was scratching, damn need rootless on the song. Yeah, that was it for man. No, because man, it was crashing, goddamned rootless. So it sounds like Many help bring you to No Limit? Because no, no, no, Many that many signed with cash right, Many moved over there. So why didn't you move with to cash money with Many? Or did you do your deal with No Limit? First? Well, I was, I was working with cash Money around nineties six.

I was. I think I did a Verse on b GS Chop the City album like in nineties seven or whatnot, and I was working around them, and I really was just trying to fill out who I was going to be with. And I eventually chose No Limit because I felt I was gonna stand out more at No Limit with my style versus with you know, all of the artists they had on the label, and I pretty much um knew everybody had no limit except P. Did you originally signed with the group five one five four boards

or did you signed as a solo actor? I signed as a solo artist. The Fire with Full Boards project came out about a week or a couple of weeks after my arrest. But I had already did songs for the album, right, so I signed with him as a solo artist. In like ninety seven, I signed with no lem So you get arrested in two thousand one day in two thousands, you get arrested in two thousands, You get sentenced in two thousand one for manslaughter for a

crime that you did not commit. Ample evidence that you didn't get, ample witnesses who testified may gave statements that you did not commit the crime. Yet you're forced to have your freedom taken away from you and stripped of your dignity. Um, why why? Why was the state of Louisiana so adamant about keeping you behind bars? All right? So I believe it was a It was multifaceted. I think it was a combination of things. I don't think it was personal, yet it was sense. It was people.

That's that's testifying for you, and writing the judge letters and and saying and somebody even came clean and said that he did it, and they still kept behind bars. No, man, that's personally right, right, That's why I said it was personally yet not. I mean, it wasn't personally yet it was. And I think what happened was this. I think it was a situation where it was a perfect storm. I got caught in a um. I got caught in a bond at the right time, but the wrong the right time,

with the wrong players involved. And I think that there were I think it was I was used as an example in that parish because the same time, the parish was like a very rural, a very conservative area at that time. And in fact, David Duke was the chairman I think of their Republican committee at the time at the time of my arrest. When what was he the governor of Louisiana. Oh, he never won. He ran um and um. And I'd like to get my facts right, so I do know that he was, was it the

chairman of the committee or yeah? I think he was the chairman of the republic committee at the time whenever my arrest, and it was very conservative, very conservative, every which is you know, I you know that's neither here nor there. But I think at the time when they investigated, I believe that they moved too fast without all of the facts. So once you move because you felt you had this figure that was going to bring media attention and all of this stuff involved, you moved on it

without investigating. And I think one of the issues I have a problem with dealing with African Americans, particularly um, those of us that have a little notoriety, is I think that they be held bent on um they arrest before they investigate instead of investigating and then arresting. So I think they arrested me before they had all the effects in order. And then what you do is put yourself into position to try to create facts to line

up against this person that you have and custoded. I don't know if if that's a if that answers your question. So so that's the non personal side. What's the personal side? The personal side is there could have been an agenda at that time against no limit. Yeah, that's what it was. The thing is this, like every independent black record, black owned record label, we had a we we've always been fighting, you know, law enforcement, you know. Uh. And if you

ask me, it's it's it's just jealousy. It's it's it's a hate that we escaped. Right. They hate you because you escaped the rules that were set for you, the traps that were set for you in in in in in the beginning, like you're not supposed to be successful. You are not supposed to be driving this car in this neighborhood and be black, all right, You're not supposed to be that. With that said, go ahead with it, mac,

walk us through that day, okay. So it's I mean, from from the time that you opened your eyes that day two the time that you were arrested, tell us what so and what did they say? You did? Go ahead? Okay, they said, Um, I'm gonna give you what. I'm gonna give you what they said happened. And I'm gonna tell you what that all right? From according to them, a fight broke out on the dance flow in this club, and I shot a young man, you know. And and let me say that the true victim in this is

that young man's family. I want to I want to I want to make sure I reiterate that because you know, at the end of the day. This was a grieving family who lost their love one. Um Now did they did? They think you did it? Well, they were left with a choice. You know, you had something. You have people telling them, people saying that I didn't do it, but you had the law enforcement, who people typically trust, saying he did. And how how hard did they fight to

uphold that sentence. Well, they fought. They fought, They fought as much as they could. You know, I'm the family because I know the law enforcement. I mean, you know, I know the tradicial system. There were certain people in the family that that were at admit that, no, we don't want him to get out, and you know, and and and I don't. I don't. UM, I don't knock

them for that, because this is a grieving family. You hurt, and then when you don't know all of the facts and you weren't a witness to it, you know, so you're just going off of what the law enforcement the picture they have painted. And I understand that because I mean, you know, hurt when you're hurt, and you know, that's just that's just just the way it where it is. And I want to create that again, reiterate that again, that they were the true victims in this because they

lost their loved one. Now as far as me, I woke up that morning. We had just came back from I think I had a few shows in Mississippi and in Las Vegas. I came home, my mom told me that she had this event. She wanted me to go to out there and slide down. So we go. We get there. It wasn't really particularly my type of place. It was kind of a small, smaller club, and she wanted me to hear a few of the artists that were pharming because at the time and my mom had

started me my mom my business partner. We had started our own label, so she had a few guys she wanted to hear, and we we sat in there for a while, and some time around after midnight, a fight broke out between a young man that was in there and some of the people who was with me, and I was standing talking to a young lady. Two young ladies in there, and a guy, and I was like signing autographs, taking pictures, and I noticed some of them.

I noticed one of my partners like standing in the middle of a shoving match, and when I took a step towards it to see what was going on. I heard a gunshot. Now, mind you, it's dark in here, lights a flashing, the music is loud, a lot of bass, so I hear a gunshot, and initially I don't if I even thought it was a gunshot because the music

was so loud. So I remember once I realized I saw people running, I grabbed the young lady who was next to me, and I pulled her down to the ground and I told her, don't run until you see what these shots are coming from. Something like that. So while we were on the ground, I told us stay here.

When I got up, I grabbed him, I grabbed us, and then once I grabbed us, another friend of ours named Daryl grabbed me and it kind of shielded me, and we ran towards the front door looking for my mom because my mom was at the front door collecting the money. So the mistake I made was as I was running towards the front door, I pulled my gun out there. I didn't know as we as we running towards the front door, I pulled my gun out because I didn't know if I was in fact the target

of the shooting. I don't know who shooting I don't know where it's coming from, and my just out of defense, I pulled mine out and kind of ran through the crowd with it in the air because I didn't want to bump into somebody and have the gun goals. So I'm running through there like the police with a gun in my hand, looking for my mom, like, yo, where

my mama? Where my mama? And I think at that point is where witnesses saw me with a gun after not at the time, I didn't know if someone was shot yet, mind you, I didn't know if someone was shot. I didn't see if anyone was shot, and I left. We left out the club, I went home. So as I get home, the guy who was babysitting my house, sitting my younger brothers, he was like, Slim, the people just called here and said they need to question you about the shooting. At that moment is when I found

out somebody actually got shot. Once I made it home, because when I left out of there, I didn't see anybody on the ground. All I saw with people running and moving. So he told me that man, they want to question you about the shooting. I'm like okay, So I go in the house and um it wasn't. But a couple of minute later police had surrounded my my whole house. Man, they're coming from the backyard from the front.

They didn't block the streets off. And um, that gun that you had had not been fired, never been fired, So what the fund are they fucking with you? Okay, that's a good point. That's a good point. Their excuse in court was because I gave him this gun. They tested it, They tested my hands. The gun pod of tests came up missing, like we couldn't Yeah, they couldn't remember what a gun polyotest. We don't. They don't know what that's at. So we never got a chance to

get that. And here's a situation where the actual accused is axing for the gun polo test. Normally, you know the accuses. I want to get the gun pologist. I'm trying to find it because I'm feeling like it's gonna right. So we couldn't find a gun polotist. They tested all my guns. They established in court that they were not fired. Their staffed. It's that part. But so how you this is the theory they gave to the jewelry. They said that they found another gun case at my house to

an alleged missing gun. They created this idea of a missing gun for the jewelry, and they said I had enough time in between Slyde, Louisiana and Baton Rouge, which is about forty five minutes. They said I had enough time to get rid of a weapon. So they never found a weapon. They just said that I had enough time to get rid of a weapon. You got theory. Let me ask you a question. So you get rid of a weapon that she was holding up right, and clearly they saw that weapon and I gave it to him,

and you gave it to him, right. And oh they had cameras in the club that came up missing too. Oh yeah, yeah, you know they had all that. Yeah, And they just wanted to get you, yea. And for them to keep you in jail for twenty years behind some you didn't do, right, man. And what was what was even crazier It was their expert witness, their so called expert witness, I don't understand and said, and I quote, um, we don't use what is the name of gunpowder test

paraphin tests I think or something like that. They called him. They said, we don't use him in Louisiana they're unreliable. He actually said this in court, that we don't use

gun polo tests in Louisiana because they're unreliable. And I wonder how that would sound to the hundreds or even thousands of guys that they have convicted using gun politests residue tests, But he had They actually said that in court because I guess they wanted to cover up for the fact or for the idea that we would have found the gun politest they once already established that that's unreliable. The guy who came forward came forward ten days after my arrest and he told him that, look, I'm the

one who did it. And here's why. This was my my aunt's boyfriend at the time, my aunt's aunt fiance at the time, and they got kids together. But you know, he came forward on his own, just really feeling guilt because a person that he considered his nephew was sitting in jail for something that he pulled up. He pulled you know that that happened with him, you know, and he told him what happened, and they basically told him that they got who they wanted and they just let him.

They let him go. They got who they wanted, and they told that to my dad, who they said we got. Did they ever come after him? I believe he went to court. I think they charged them with something like they charged him with accessory after the fact. Basically, basically, don't be trying to help this mother get out of jail, you know. So this is we're gonna tax you for trying to help him get out of jail. Basically, That's what that's about. So what's the process? Cuter? His name

the prosecutor at the time. At the time, Bruce Daring was the prosecutor at the time, and I'm sure that has been several prosecutors since then. But how many been on this case? And he's now a convicted feller? Oh? Good for him, Yeah, he's he just got out the face. He got an early release because of COVID. But what was he convicted for. He was convicted for wire tapping, fraud and and all kinds of stuff like that. The sheriff is has has gotten convicted as of a couple

of weeks ago. Good for him, The same sheriff that was on Good for him. He got convicted as well. And I'm sure that some of those investigators have probably done some dirty stuff too, probably probably went to jail. And the sheriff has been convicted of some wild stuff man like like rape and and stuff like, Oh good for him. Throughout America, the judicial system is totally corrupt and it's biased against black people. But Louisiana has a special place for for bias and and and corruption in

law enforcement and the judicial system. It's totally I mean, it's a different level of corruption. And I think these bastards needs to be exposed. What's his name was, Walter Read Walter Ree? You low down, dirty bastard. You know, people gotta know, man, People seriously, people gotta know, bro, because this this is not right. Man. What do they destroy people's lives and they don't even get punished for it? Man, Like,

it's no there's no like retribution for them. Uh. And a lot of times when they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar, they won't even apologize. They will just keep it going. You Let's okay, let's say this would be the honorable thing to do. Let's say I'm a d A and and you know, I want to get this guy because I think he did it.

Once I received evidence that says Otherwise, the honorable thing to do, the respectable thing to do, the thing to do that would help uh keep maintain uh confidence in the judicial system, would be for me to let this guy go because I'm trying to keep the streets safe. I mean, as a prosecutor, your number one job is public safety. That is your number one job. How in the hell is it public safety convicting innocent people and putting them in jail? You know that ship just it's

just really pisces me off. And he's not by himself. That's a whole system that allows something to get away with this, that does this. The government is a part of it. Though they said it was cool to do that to black people. They made that rule. That rule was made by the government. Bro. It's just it's it's not just the state of Louisiana, the state of Texas. I mean, it's the entire country. The entire country has

a personal vendetta against black people. I don't know if I don't know if you're all aware of this, but there is a law right now, um that guys where I just came from in the prison a state, uh state along in Louisiana. They just they just made it unlawful to be convicted without a unanimous jewelry. Right now, Louisiana was one of two states that still was allowing

capital offenses to be convicted without a unanimous jewelry. And what happened was we proved and in the language it was overturned because it was written for racial uh with racial intentions at the time. This Yet they don't want to make it retroactive. They right, it's like for everybody that convicted does fall you know from this point, it's like you made you you change this law because of how it affected people in the past. But you don't

want to want to retroact to get the guy. You just want to do it from because people like see murder, he would get out right because he was convicted, would attend to to jury just like me. And what was

the racial makeup of your jury? All white got as They haven't even been a time in American history where all black jury has I don't know even just judge, not that I can even think, I know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go out on the limits, say not, Like who in their right mind thinks that that is cool for an all white jury to judge a black person or any person that's other than white who thinks that's cool.

A jury of your peers should be just that, the jury of your peers, people who come from who share the same ethnicity, who come from the same background that you have, and even the same social class that you have, because there are rich people who can't identify with people that are poor. You saying something, You're just saying something. Most of my jurors were not, even in my age,

were insensitive to your situation period. Okay, many, many, many of your jurors are all I would say, I would take a risk and say all of them that all of them probably were indoctrinated to look at you as the enemy anyway, So you know, what's the difference. What is the difference if we convict this guy and throw his life away and take them away from his family? Why why you were gone? I want to ask you this, Who in your family that was close to you that

you lost? Anybody died that was close to a lot of a lot of friends died. You know, I had some older family members, but as far as in my immediate family, we all still here. Watched a lot of the I had the whole I had to later and let guys crown on my shoulder who lost their moms come everything, man, And then they don't have to they don't have a d C to let them out to go to the funerals either. Know, well, see what they was doing now, man, it's crazy something they're doing like

virtual funerals. Now you get to see it on the screen rather than even going into the funeral. And it's it's just basically taking the personal. You know, it's taking the person that personal goodbye. Yeah, it's get off of guys, you know, because you family is really for the guys in prison. What I've noticed without family support, man, I watched a lot of guys just break down. Man. You know, so people out there that's listening, if you've got family

members in prison, man support them. I mean even if not even not all the time sending the money, man, just letting them know that you know they exist and that you care, because I know, for me, it's what carried me through. You know, my mom she didn't know what to do when I first got arrest of my parents and do with my mom just started. She's an artist, so she started painting portraits of guys who she felt

wrongfully convicted. She did mine, and she just contact for your mom because I want to get some of those pictures. I want to buy some of those pictures. I'm building a studio. That would be that's that's a great idea. She didn't know what else to generally send it to me first. That's why I don't. That's why we don't. I don't like this, dude. That would be great, man, she did, because you know, we could do some big things with this. Really think about the n f T S.

We could really do something big. But that's somebody's likeness. Will you can't use that what you're talking about somebody's We're gonna work with the people the images like however, we're gonna make sure everybody get broke off. Yeah, So that that's what that's that was her thing. She didn't know what to do something really always talk about money, bro she told she told her this money right now. Yeah, and she basically told the story to anybody who would

listen at that time. And eventually it started gaining momentum and you know, bigger media outlets took on it and then um, you know, it was it was that support from her and my dad. They visited me like every two weeks, no matter where I went, no matter what prison I went to, they was there. And eventually I met my wife. She came about nine years ago and

we've been rocking like that ever since. And my brothers and sisters, my siblings and all of them, they all just with my friends, we all had a lot of support. It's a lot of people that that assisted me in carrying my head up the way I did, you know, because I think if I would have been alone, I don't know if I had been able to handle it by myself. O. Man, they gave you something for nothing. Bro, you ain't did ship and pause for the cause of

just saluting everybody that supported you, Ineed. I'm gonna tell you something, man, you were very very fortunate to not lose any immediate family members. Twenty years. That's a long time, you know. You know with that at any point, I know you had a lot of support, But at any point did you think about giving up? No, I couldn't.

I'm gonna be honest with you. I couldn't. I mean from the moment, and I don't say this in the cliche saying well i'm i'm I'm, I'm telling you the real like you know, I went from the moment I was in there, I was like, yo, I gotta get

out of here. So while people was on the streets working to get me out, I felt that I had to do my part and work from the inside to get out, to take all of the programs I can take, and to you know, better better myself in whatever way is I need to do it so be prepared for any opportunity that came forward. So, in fact, I got out because of one of those opportunities. I made myself. Um,

I made myself basically available for mentorship. I did a lot of serve community service in a prison, and I just was a part of anything that was helping others. And as a result, when it was the opportunity to get Clemenson and parole came up, I was giving it. So I knew the whole time that I was there that I was gonna get out. I believe that I I was gonna get out every year, Like I was like, I'm gonna get out this year. It's gonna be the year.

So your conviction wasn't overturned, Yeah, I'm on parole. Come on. In fact, I had to get permission to be out

in Houston. Are you gonna pursue like like a monetary settlement in this situation, Well, what I would first had when we're first trying to do, get in the compensation as if I get exonerated, because as of now, I'm still a convicted felon, but I'm still I still have like nine years on parole and so and so they have monetary incentives to not parole, I mean, to not you know, pardon you, to not exonerate you, because if they do, they know you're coming with a lawsuit and

they know you they're gonna have to pay for it. So I mean, you gotta have some cold blooded lawyers and some cold blooded representation. But I also think that you need to take your fight to the public. The public needs to know because if it's under the table like we don't know, like we can't help you, like

you know, it's like we can. You can have your your your your core support and all that stuff, but public sentiment goes a long way, and I think you can This is one of those cases that could be used as basically, like uh, you know, as a as a template you know too, you know, for some type of not just not just retribution in terms of monetary but but also some type of reform. Are you involved

in any type of reform right? Well, there's one of the bills that I'm actually supporting right now is from I think it's as a representative from Louisiana, from from my area. He's supporting a bill that gives parole to lifeless all across the board, because there is no life with parole law in Louisiana. Like when they give you natural life in Louisiana, they mean life. Ain't no parole

for like, there's no life for parole. They passed the law a couple of years ago where they're giving guys who were convicted as juveniles, they're giving them opportunity to get parole after twenty five years. But as far as if you're not, if you weren't convicted as a juvenile, there is no life with parole in Louisiana. Is strictly across the board without parole, our life. Um, yeah, yeah, I think it's yeah. So that's that's something that's indeed,

that's something I'm all supporting. I'm also supporting the bill that um to to retroact Um, the tender the tender to the United Unanimates jeury. I'm definitely supporting that, and and there's some other things that are you know, I've been discussing with different UM politicians and UM in in New Orleans in particular because I'm not from St. Samity Parish where my crime occurred. I'm from New Orleans. But we're trying to get some stuff past in the state

to try to help all of the guy where decline occurred. Yeah, whether the crime good, point where the crime occurred. So I'm definitely UM, I'm definitely I've definitely been a part of the reform effort. That's what I say, because I don't want this to happen anybody. And I see UM there.

I think recently in New York they're trying to they're pushing for a bill to stop song lyrics from being used against you in court because the lyrics to my song Murder, Murder, Kill Kill, was actually used against me in court. They what they the way they used it, it it was, it was slick. How the d A did it. He basically said he can't use it as actual evidence because my lawyer was objecting that. So what he did

was said he was trying to establish it. Um established my character basically, show how this man talks about murder and about killing. And that was the grounds it was allowed in court on that, not as actual evidence, but he used yeah, the pain the character of me, no different than he would have somebody step up on the witness stand and say this is his character, right, And this this man actually said in it. And I was like, man,

it blowed my mind. He was like, ladies and gentle with the jury, help me move or help me remove the camouflage from this assassin. So because one of my monicas in the song was camouflage assassin. So I'm sitting there looking at it, listening to my music. So I'm like, man, this dude is good. I'm in my mind I might have said, how you him? Because this dude basically is painting his picture to the jewelry and then and the prosecutor and they're eating it up, and I'm just like,

he's in jail them. No, the d eight went to prison. He's out now, not the prosecutor. D A actually went. But it was it was nefarious. Of course, he had nothing else to he he had nothing else to go on. I didn't I don't have a criminal record. I don't have any I never got in trouble, so he didn't have anything to go on. So he basically had to go to my music it and he went through it

and he found anywhere. He actually walked past my lawyer with a folder like this thick, and he said, he basically told my lawyer, if you put him on the stand, I got him because I got both of his albums right here. Anything he said on these albums, he was gonna bring it up in court. So when you put on the stand. No, my lawyer actually told me. And I think it was a decision. I made the decision, but I don't think it was a good one. He basically told me that he didn't think I should get

understand and he told me his reasons why. And because I was young, I didn't know the law, I took his advice. I'm paying you, I'm I'm expecting you know what you're talking about. So I didn't get understand. I think I should have. But you know, it's that's very very tricky, and I you know, most lawyers would tell you do not testify. You know in your own case. It's very very tricky. Expency the thing is that you

don't have the secret sauce. You don't have white tears. See, if you have white tears, man, ship, you can get on stage and you can don't understand I'm saying stage, but it's pretty much you can say whatever you want to say. Man, Man, look man say man. No matter what that case is, no matter what the evidence is against,

they could have video footage of it and everything. If you white, bro, you can cry, bro, and somebody gonna connect somebody in that jewelry, that white jewelry gonna connect to them white tears, man, because it's something about the white tears, and white tears is evidence of innocence, I'm saying. I mean, that's what they I know exactly is something going on. It's like them dawn, white tears and something else. Bro, I know exactly what you at because the way I

kind of here's my perception. My perception is, I don't think that most people are racist, but I do think that most people are prejudiced, because I think that most people pre judge, and when you already have a preconceived idea of what you think a person is, the damage is done before it even starts. I think the trial

was finished. Because I believe that many of the Jewelry members already had a certain way I appeared to them, and for whatever reasons, because I try to be as objective as possible, but for whatever reasons, I think they already saw me a certain way. And because they did, if you cannot stop that from affecting the way they passed their judgment. You know that the the lawyers are gonna say, and the judge is gonna say, listen, judge this basically on the facts, don't do this. Don't But

I mean, that's unrealistic. It's just like the things that are d a blurred out in the court and then your lawyer to say objection and to say forget what you just heard. You can't make these people forget what they just heard. I think all people are prejudiced. I mean, I think I think we all prejudge everybody to an extent right. But the danger is when you are using that prejudgment to convict and ruin people's lives, you know, put people in jail, get people killed. That's when it

becomes dangerous. And that's when we have to at at some point as a human like like like dig down and inside of you for that human emotion that tells you to be objective. This is a human being, a person whose life is going to be affected by the decision that I make. And as a human being, I don't care what your race is, your ethnicity, your background, your class. I don't want that on my conscious. I

don't want to convict an innocent person. You know, as much as I hate these dirty ass Confederate white folks, as much as I hate them, I would not I would not want it on my conscious that I just convicted a white person of something. That is because just because I have a I asked against these type of white people, right, I asked the ground against these type of weapons. I would not just say he white, just like all the rest of I'm gonna ruin their life if I get a chance. That's not me. I'm not

built like that man. And I think that's just some dirty, low down ship and they don't get a pass for being prejudiced, right, And I think I think that's because that that's just your heart, that shows who you are

as a person. And I mean, any any person what a good moral compass is not gonna want that because we want for others what we want for ourselves, and I think what what One of the issues I believe the part that the community plays is these I think we have these false um expectations of our community leaders. Like a lot of these d a's and sheriffs or whatnot, they're voted by the people, and they all they have

expectations by whoever is the majority in their districts. And you know, they have this persona, we're tough on crime where you know where where X, y and z. But it's like, man, at some point, you have to be a human being and make a good make good judgment based because I'm with you at that because people without more flexibility scared the hell out of me. You know. These are the people that like, oh, you know, I would never and then they find themselves a family member

or something like that, and then they never. Right, it's and that's and that's what I think it boils down to. I think that we just we have to because a lot of those d a's, and this is not excuse for them. They have pressure from the community. Oh you got to be tough. We don't want that in our community. So now they're feeling neither. I'm gonna get this conviction

no matter what. So it's it's it's almost like it's just a demon seed planet or something, and it's just spiles around, you know, spials right, everybody's partaking in it. You know. Tough phone crime. When I hear spoken, it's

tough owned black people. That's what that is. That's cold for tough on black people, because we already know we've seen many many cases where white people do some of the most egregious things ever and just they slide like the Jackson fly I mean, he slash moved out the court room just like you know, let me look at that tape. Woman. Remember the woman who killed all our kids, Andrea Yates. Yeah, Andrea Yates drowned six of her kids, man, and they sent it to a mental house pitifore ye,

and she back at the house kicking it. You know. The woman who ran over her husband and stuff and they let her skate. You know, Like I mean, here's so many cases of this, like these type of things the pretty much never happened to black people in the judicial system. I mean, and I say this with with all objectivity, stand your ground laws don't work for us, you know what they don't. It's like there wasn't because they wasn't made for us. Man, the law doesn't work

for us because it was not made. It was not put in place with us in mind. The law. Andrew Jackson said out of his mouth that this is a white man's country with white man laws, and it always will be as long as I'm president or whatever, it's gonna stay like that. That's what Andrew Jackson said. The law. Yeah, the laws were made to have us to have a certain structure for society at large. Right, And so this is why when you look at the laws, that's so

much latitude that they give judges. Right, they can said judging in some cases give you anything from they could let you go. Sometimes they can give you probation if a jury is sentencing you, or they can give you a life sentence, or they can give you a life sentence. And then what does it call when they defer that sentence, where you know, they'll say, okay, you do a year of probation or whatever, and then we're gonna we're gonna throw the sentence, not they going to vacate the sentence

or whatever. Yeah, and suspended, yes, suspended sentences. They can do so much. They have so much lattitude. These judges have too much power. Let me say that judges have too much power, way too much power. Prosecute d A

s d as have too much power. When you can walk into a room of a few people and you can put a case in front of people that could possibly ruin somebody's lives or change the trajectory of somebody's life, and and and you get to present all the evidence and sway it however you want to and tell the jury not these are the rules that you have to look at this evidence spot and the person that you're you're trying to get an indictment on, they don't have

any representation in that room, but you do. Is like it's it's totally messed up the whole process. It's regged, it's rigged, and it's biased, and it's all it's all too um give certain people breaks and and and to punish others. These laws. When you look at these laws, they're designed to protect some and to punish others. And and I think that was because and not to cut you all, but I think that was because at that time, I don't know if the forefathers or whoever wrote these laws,

saw what the country would look like today. And I think that where we do um where we go wrong. And I'm and I'm speaking of society as a whole when we uphold things that were written at this time just because it was written in history and we're trying to honor the forefalls. What the forefathers didn't see the country the way it is. They didn't know that the Africans that they brought over here, we're gonna eventually be free.

They didn't know that society was gonna eventually be h this type of assimilation that we have or this this melting pot that we all. They didn't see that. So I think that the law is now, the law should reflect the way the way the country is now. And I think the only way that can happen is if we can get the majority of the people to see things that way, to see it, like Yo, we need to not revisit just like they did in Louisiana, LB it.

They didn't retroact it, but they actually overturned that law because they said that law was specifically written in the language to make sure that if a black man was on trial or black person was on trial, they would never have enough, um that all it would take was tend people to convict them, right, and they would never let more than two blacks in the jury, so that's

all you needed. And then if it was a white person on trial, they would never have more than uh two blacks senates, so they couldn't they wouldn't have the power to convict them. They specifically said this in the language of the law, and because so it was overturned. My my problem with it is why you don't retroact it so it can affect the people that that has been affected by all these years. But I think that if we take that approach to all of the laws that are biased in that way, I think that we

can change society. Yeah, I think that you're absolutely right, But I do want to make a a distinction here about you know, well, the forefathers of this country were some low down, racist, dirty, connive, and thieve and corrupt motherfucker's. I need to go on record and say that. So when you say we that's fine. But I never liked the motherfucker's. I never liked them. I never like their mamas and dadd is. I don't like their grandpathers and

grand manners. I don't like none of their children period. Fuck them the long way, fuck them, because if not for what they did, then you don't have this type of country in the first place. With all of these this bias and this systemic racism, which really keeps us at odds because really we have more in common than we have differences, all of us. I'm talking about straight across the board, all of us. We have more in common than we have differences. But what we wake up

every day thinking about this fucking race shit. Every day it's this it's this racial ship and its classism. That's what we're fighting over every day. Racism and classism. Racism the first of all. At least classism is something that that that you can control to an extent, because it's really a lot has to do with your grind. But racism like like like we wake up, we're born the way we we are. We can't help we can't take

credit for the way our skin color. We wake up and we're like, you know what I'm listening, It's like, motherfucker, you didn't. You're not responsible for that, you know what I'm saying. And you're not responsible for your looks. You're any of that, but like, go out and do something, motherfucker, achieve something, accomplished something, and then you can tell me how proud you are about this and that or whatever. You know, But I think that, But it's it's that,

It's that, it's those people. It's people out there that they have to keep the race ship going, to keep us distracted and keep us confused, because if they don't, then we all gonna wake up and say, nah, motherfucker you motherfucker's are really the ones, and we can then go out of these motherfucker's, who are they? Members of Congress, your local politicians, uh, your your your your your, your congressmen and women, your senators, your your representatives, your city

council members, the gatekeepers, they're the ones. They're are the ones. These motherfucker's are riding to the car. You know when I when I ran for city council, you know, it was the gatekeepers that looked like me that seemed to have a bigger problem with me coming in and wanting to do something for the people. There's some fucking gatekeepers, bro. Now, why why do you think, why do you think the ones that looked like us or the world, Why do you think they had a problem with it. Well, they

they're jocking for position. Oh you're gonna try to take my spot. Oh you're gonna expose something, cause I'm expose the ashes. You know, I ain't gonna let it go down. You ain't gonna do if I got the juice, I got the power to do something about it. You ain't gonna do my people dirty. So and oh yeah, I'm gonna make him my people get a fair amount of them damn contracts and ship Oh yeah, we're gonna get all all that. I'm not. I'm not. And that's how

you supposed to be anyway. But they're sitting up in there on their asses and getting just for them and their people, their little friends, their little hustle group, and they're making sure I can't let him in. He's gonna

try to miss with our stuff. He's gonna miss it up for us, you see, and and these and yeah and so a lot of times the other gatekeepers they don't have to do nothing because you got the first of all, get past your own, and you ain't gonna it's hard to get past the motherfucker's because they gonna they're gonna tea They're gonna team up on you, bro, and so you're fighting. You're very you're fighting the uphill battle.

But I mean, but it's one that I think any honorable person just, you know, I would just say, you know, that's what it is. And you know, why not me? If if I got to fight that out of that's the battle line fight, I mean, I ain't. I ain't scared the fight, you know. And I really and I really have a personal sustain for bullies. I don't like bullies.

And a lot of these politicians family are bullies. They got these suits so on and these fancy dresses and ship, and they walk around here and they tell a little fancy speeches, you know. They show up at the at the at the at your grandma fifth it anniversary party, you know, and they show up at the graduation, They show up for when somebody die, and they go in and take the picture anytime the cameras around there. And

then that's enough to get them re elected. But you can't name one thing that they did for the community to change your life. You can't even name anything they've done. We got so many people in office that looked like us who ain't doing ship with that position all they're doing is getting re elected and patting their pockets. Man, it's a cold game. And that's say and I'm gonna tell you and and and to just to comment on

what you said in a few minutes ago. It's like, I'm gonna be honest with you at this point in human history because I always always sometimes take myself just back and kind of look at the world from two million miles away. At this point in history, racism don't make any sense. It's like you, first of all, we know too much too even we know too much now number one and number two, there's no law against my race. So I don't care if you're racist, You're you're stupid

fool because I look at like that's your laws. So you ain't gonna take my dollars and your stoke because I'm not your racist. So if I come to buy something from you, you think you're not you're gonna do you really think you're gonna tell me you don't want my money? So sometimes it's like I just sometimes I see people that are racist, and I'm just like, how does that even benefit you in anyway? Yeah, because I can you can't stop me from being successful, So what difference.

Like what I guess what I'm saying is like what is what is the benefit of And I'm talking about individuals, not systemic, but what is the benefit of your racism? Like I think, I like, I think a lot of times man at racism is just people. I think I see racism as like an emotional crutch and this is this is what I mean. Watch so emotional check this out.

So when we when we're when we are born and we're raised and we we we grew up with certain convictions in life, right, and there's certain things that create fear in us. Uh, perhaps you grew up poor, Perhaps you grew up where your parents were abusive. Uh, maybe you had a girlfriend or a boyfriend that did your dirty. If you're racist, those people probably look like you, right, your parents, you know, your your your boyfriend, your girlfriend, because after all your real racist, so you don't be

dating saturation. These people that give you your strongest convictions, your friend that betrayed you, it's probably your same color. Right, So these things give us the strong our strongest convictions. And if you got robbed by somebody, it's probably somebody looks like you. Somebody store your money, somebody owe your money.

It's probably might look like you because you go along with somebody you know that you don't like, you know from another group, you know your money, right, So all of these things you know, really shape us and make us who we are and give us the strongest convictions

that we have. So if you are really going to hate an entire group of people just based on their skin color, if you're gonna if you're gonna hate somebody, it really doesn't make sense because us the people who look like you are probably the ones who did you the dirtiest, the probably the ones who hurt you the most. I mean personally, I'm not saying sitting back like, oh I don't like them, Oh he said this? Who they

said this about them? Now I'm talking about people who have You have personal connections, with personal life experiences with the source, the direct source of your pain, your agony, from your depression, It comes from people. It stems from people who look just like you. Why don't you hate them?

Because that's too much like righte motherfucker, that's why you don't and your ass no that you're gonna run out of people and you don't want and you don't want to hate them because you want to be around him. You want to be around them, right, So it's just a matter when you start talking about racism, it's just these are motherfucker's who just don't want to get along, don't want to like somebody. It don't got nothing to do with how you who you are as a person,

as a human being. It's just that I just don't like mother. So whatever somebody say negative about you, whatever judgments that are negative judgments are, they're gonna eat it up because that's what they want. They want to eat it. That's why you have people that sit around on social media when crimes are committed. They sit around and they wait to find out what the race of the person was before they decide how they feel about the case. How they're gonna come in on that particular case and

not not white everybody, everybody does it. They sit around and wait, let me see what the race of the person is first, before I decide the time, Yeah, how I feel about this? When that shouldn't be it's crazy. That should go back to what you said initially. If you're a human being, you should be able to objectively empathize with any human being, and most people just don't do that with it. I mean, it's unfortunately. It's unfortunate, man. And I just I even I'm gonna tell you, like

even sitting in prison. I haven't been sitting in the dayrooms in certain prisons where we're watching the news and a brother getting arrested for something. Yeah, here a brother and they're like, man, they need to get him a hundre years. Damn damn. Like so when it's somebody else's child, Oh, I wanted to get a hundred years, But when it's your child, man, have mercy on my baby? Are you and are you man? Please have mercy on me. So I think that it goes back to we have to

start wanting for others what we want fire ourselves. I think that's one of the biggest problems that the human being in general have, is just not wanting for others what we want for ourselves. And I think we got a big column in our community with self hate. Yes, you know what I mean, Like we do not want to see us come up. We always got something shitty to say about each other. Let's you know us some of us do. I mean, I gotta put we any because I'm black too, know what I'm saying, I don't.

I don't give a funk about I don't. I don't talk about people behind their backs, but we is. It is too general of a statement. It's almost like saying it's almost it's almost saying imagine, imagine some woman saying, man ain't ship. That's not true. Some man ship. Maybe you can even say most man ain't ship. Many man ain't ship. But there are some upstanding me and out there that's not fat to just say man ain't ship. It's almost generalizing people again each other, some of us.

I know a few, Yeah, I do too. What I'm just saying anything that anybody know. But when you say us, it's a general statement, and generally for black people. That's what I'm saying. Not Willie will exclude, will exclude because I don't. I'm not either man. I like to see everybody win. I mean, man, just just win one time, y'all, like like like, let us win one time, right, No letting No, I don't believe in letting fun that we're gonna win. Just you know we're gonna win and get

to get out the way. We're gonna knock you the funk out the way. That's how you win. You know, you don't ask motherfucker to let you win. I ain't letting the motherfucker win nothing. And and I like I like to see and and and that's a good point. I'm gonna say it this way. I like to see people win because when people when people win, they happen. And when everybody happen, everybody, you know what to make everybody happen. If Matt came out with a new album,

now I guess what, I got one cooking. It'll be probably early next year. I would say that it'll it'll be released. I'm just getting everything together. I had a lot, but I wrote a lot of songs over a lot of years. And I'm gonna just say this. I want to stay this for the record. When I first heard never Seen a Man Cry, I almost threw my whole notepad away. In nineteen ninety five, I think for not info. My partner n O Juwel came to the city, called me and my boy Watt and let us here. Before

it came out, we heard it. I sat there, we looked at each other in the car and I said, man, why am I rapping? Brother? It was that powerful because I had never heard nobody rap like that. This dude sounded like this, this guy named Scarface. You know, he was rapping like a preacher delivering a eulogy. And I had never heard that before. Answer a whole lot of crazy, man,

I was sitting there like that. So I basically had concluded that he was high and drunk in the middle of a graveyard at two o'clock in the morning when he wrote it, that's what That's what I had told myself, high and drunk, but now pain pain killers. I had broke my fist and I was to join that drunk middle like I took a pain and I was high as fucked, and I said that you let Lord of let me come down. I ain't never do good ship again. So I wrote, yeah, you you definitely put us in

the room. Man, you you definitely put us in the room. Now beautiful. With that being said, like, I'm done, I'm not gonna not rapping ship no more anyway. Man, So I don't have when you put that next record, how many you're gonna have a lot of old guys from no limit on there in any of the guys from five or four boys. Yes, some of the guys are gonna be on there. I'll have some of my my family members of course, because my all of my brothers and sisters are musicians, like um so that like you,

I think I heard it. My sister is a singer, one of my sisters a producer. One of my little brothers used to actually play the trombone for Salang and uh, he traveled a lot more. And my other brother is a saxophone player. And my oldest younger brother because I'm the oldest. Job. He raps, but he's a computer engineer, so he's just he's just doing it for fun. But we all they're all going to be a part of it. My son as well. My son is a rapper. And my son actually just made me a Grandpaul wind Stay.

So I want to say graduation, yeah Pa, Yeah, he raps and and you know he um he grinding. You know, he grinding. He's doing his his thing. Man. And so I'm gonna have a collective of people on it. I would like to get some of some of these legends on it, like will it uh like like Brad, you know, I would like to get some of these people commit. Man, I got one, I just got one criterion and that's a man. Just make the beat dope. Oh yeah, man,

I'm a man, don't be dope. And I want to do something on a on a New Orleans type, but I want to bounce on it, man, I want to bounce on it. A bounce be Now I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you this. This is the weird thing is oh man. When I started before Bounce came out. So you know, when my album come out in the eighties and then eight and nine or whatever, Bounce wasn't out yet. So when Bounds hit, people like, you're gonna do Bounce, I'm like no, because that I was already rapping. So yeah,

So I didn't really I didn't take to it. I didn't begin to appreciate Bounce until later on because it was like, yo, this is a reflective of of our city. But initially I was like, nah, you ain't never seen me bounce. Man, Man, I'm gone, you don't want to see me bounce right with? Fuck no, I was gonna give you somebody looking with that letting dary. Man, imagine me bouncing is gonna go by. That's not gonna be. Then I'm gonna have to get on the Houston beating

stuff freestyle. Okay, man. So the new album is, yeah, it should be early two two. It's gonna feature a lot of people. I mean not a lot of people. It's gonna feature select people. And uh, I think it's gonna be reflecting the maturity because I had I wrote a lot of songs when I was inconcrated and a lot of people. You know what. Nothing to cut you off, But I'll make some beach for you. Bro, man, I

would be do not believe that. I couldn't be. He's been motherfucking telling me that same ship, serious kind of ship. But I'll make you some beats now. I played the base in the in the keyboard keyboard too. I think I saw you before because you don't remember that, y'all

don't remember this. But I think I opened up for I opened up at the concert you was in at the Singer and like ninety five or ninety six in the wall and it was you big Mike keep Murray and I don't remember none of that ship yeah, and it was painting it, but was in it the rabbit how they do vision at the time. I talked to one of them the other day in jail no, they could they can communicate with like See murder, Yeah, the

same dome. We we was in the same dome. And and See was my partner who you know, we was. Me and See have been having a connection, man, since I met him, and so he was one of the few people that I can go vent to to because he could relate. We win damn that identical situation. And then you know, we reminisced together about times, you know, before we got locked up, so we kind of kept each other, uh focus, you know what I mean. And I just I just talked to him about it was

about two days ago. I talked to him, and I always was was was weird, man, as I always felt bad for him because his situation, wation was more serious than mine, like he's we got identical crimes. But I was convicted of manslaughter. He was convicted of murder, which means he got a life sentence without parole. So I always was, you know, a part of me and honestly, this is this is from the heart, a part of me felt. Man. I almost felt guilty for leaving him

when I left, if that makes sense. I kind of just was I felt like I was leaving something behind. Because this is the home man, and you know, and and and he's a he's such a loyal and genuine dude that you know once once I made it, you know, I got on parole. He just every time he talked to me, he almost like tried to remind me that he okay because he don't want me to worry. Like he'd be like, man, I'm good. But he always up in good spirits. And I know him. I know sometimes

things don't always be all good, but he's never gone up. Uh. He never want the people he loved to stress a worry about him. So he always like, man, you're good, man, I'm so glad that see y'all. Bro, you know stuff like that. Where's the last time you spoke to crazy Crazy? I actually so crazy on? He was with us the other day that. Yeah, he was with us the other day. Yes, last night he was on stage last night. Nice. Yeah, but man, we thank you for coming and I with us.

Man appreciate Yeah, we really do. Man, it's good to see you. Man. How can people get in contact with you though? That's important? Um through Instagram? Wait, y'all, the people, not not us. We're gonna get a contact. Got your phone number I'm talking about. I'm talking about I is Mac Phipps Official UM at gmail dot com. Oh no, that's the no, that's that's not it. Macphilps Official is Instagram. Yeah, yeah,

my bad, Mac, Macphilps Official. Listen, we all know. For the record, what do people watching For the record, I don't know nothing about technology. I'm still figuring all of this stuff out. Do you have an email address yet? Email? You have a business email? Okay? So okay, So Instagram. If y'all want to get in touch with Mac, reach out to him on Instagram, Instagram Family, Mac Phipps Official, Mac Phipps Official, that's the instagram on Instagram. I'm looking

at my my people. They're looking at me like I don't know if I said something right. Man, one more time, man, for for your support group than you. It's beautiful, man, it's beautiful. And to see that you got your same business partner after all that time, Russell, you know, still right that rideing with you, man, That's that's beautiful to see. There's something that you just rarely see in life, period.

But for somebody to go to the penitentiary and set out for twenty years and come back and the whole time his people was riding with him, and then he get get out and then continuing the ride. That's a beautiful thing, man. Should you should try to package that and sell it because we've got a lot of fake as people out here, man, and they don't know what it's like. They don't know even the meaning of loyalty. They have no idea. Yeah, right, we know, man. Rusban

Rocking says what sorry eight nw us though. Yeah, Russ was the bullet breaker. The bullet huh, he was gonna break that was the bullet like it. I like it right man. Well, I appreciate you for coming out. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. Mac uh Yeah, the sole survivor, true survivor. Man, I got to give it up, give it up and give it up Forrad and Willie, give it up for them, to give it up for us.

This is dope. This episode was produced by a King and brought to you by The Black Effect Podcast Network and I Heart Radio.