The Marylin Gambrell Episode

out their heads and then blame it on us. Don't get it twisted on code and me and dancing for no buttoment biscuits. It's Willie d y'all scar faces out. Collectively, we are the ghetto Boys. Reloaded with another episode of information and instructions to help you navigate through this wild, crazy, beautiful world. In the studio, Marylyn Gambrel, let me tell you something found. Y'all don't know the half. This woman is necessary, Sarah, I ain't gonna talk up too much.

We're gonna have a conversation and y'all judge for yourself. Brother, welcome to the show. Thank you, my good friend of over. We were just trying to count the years. It was like twenty six years. We've been knowing each other a long time, long time, a long time. Um, how is Mackenzie. Mackenzie is wonderful. She's a nurse. Now my granddaughter is

an orion emergency. That's crazy, right, So you got when I met you, you know, you just had your daughter was a teenager, Mackenzie was a teenager, and now you have a teenage granddaughter. Well, actually, god, God, that's crazy. Believe that. Yeah, man, that's crazy. Wow. How how is grandmotherhood? Oh, it's spectacular, it is and is just the She's the most amazing mob in the world. I should have warned

y'all family that Merlin is a serial crier. But and the thing about it, though, is that it's in a good way, right, because it's like you wear your heart on a sleep on your sleeve, and you know, you're like, uh, you got this uh surplus of empathy, and that's what

brings about the tears so often, right. But you know, it's it's hard to like really explain to people the impact that you've had on the community in Houston, communities in Houston and over just overall, on so many people's lives have you ever just really set back and you just thought about, you know, the that impact that you have on people, like and the number of people that

you've actually impacted. Sometimes I kind of think back, going all the way back, and especially when we started our program for children and incarcerated parents and two thousand, how many hundreds and hundreds of children have gone through the program and to see them excel. But we still have children today going through the program. So we're twenty two years old now, as far as our program is twenty two years old, and we turned twenty in t I thought,

how magical is that? And we're gonna celebrate every month, and we had all these plans. We were out of there by Mars because of COVID, so we didn't get to do our celebrating. But we're going to might be three by the time we get to it. But just the numbers and my youngest then in two thousand, what you meant you game to class are now thirty five. You believe that those children men are in the thirties. Tell people what it is that you do. You are

the founder of Normal Victims. It's an advocacy advocate advocacy organization for children of incarcerated parents. That in and of itself is is it's unique because there is not a lot of programs out that that focus strictly on children of incarcerated parents. They're pretty much alike the forgotten, and people don't even think about what happens with them when a child when their parents goes off to prison. So explain to people exactly, you know what that's something like

that involves, you know, this population of children. Like if there were ten risk factors that needed to be that a child could fall in these categories, this population has every single risk factor. If it's ten each child individually, we'll half ten or nine, but it's usually ten because it deals with the homelessness, UH, abandonment issues, have been abused issues, it's all the above in this one child.

But then they've got siblings. Now, all the siblings carry the same pain and trauma um the caregivers, the struggles that they have, the grandparents that are now raising even newborns, and the grandparents the usual guardians that step in to raise these kids when their parents go off to jail. Yes, most most often is the grandparents that take care of that.

And bless them. Bless because you don't get money from CPS or for adopting, like CPS would pay a foster parent, but the grandparents needs that additional income now to take that. CPS will pay the foster parents, but they won't pay the blood. They won't. They won't pay blood grandparents anything, won't give them any type of relief. CPS, Shame on you, Shame on you. Y'all. Guys, y'all need to go back to the drawing board and figure it out. Talk about

backwards policy. I think it's more and more on the table now because there's so many grandparents and answer uncle's toopid most often the grandparents that's totally responsible for financially and for every aspect. And bless them because when you're older, you don't feel well, fixed income and you got all these other responsibilities and you don't just a lot of times you don't just get one grand baby. They might have two of their own children, adult children in the

penitentiary and taking on maybe six, maybe two. It's a it's a lot more to it, can you imagine, and then being ill, not feeling well, it's just a limited money. At one point, no more victims had graduating ratio. There the children. The children that came through the program still do. We've only had one time we had that we're graduating that year and two didn't, but they did end up

doing it in August. So still that's all. So every single child that comes through the nor More Victim program, it's not only expected to graduate high school, but they graduate. They do graduate. Some you have to do additional things to support them or get them into a home school. The bottom line is you're not You're going to graduate. First of all. The other aspect, you don't have to go to college. You might want to own a chain of barbershops, you want to go vocational, you might want

to go in the military. Being a lot of them do go on to college. But the one thing you're not gonna do is end up the penitentiary. Now that we can work on high school all day long, but we know how critical that is. Your secret. So you're saying that in twenty two years, right, it's been twenty two years of existence, you haven't had one kid go to the penitentition. We have our goal is that you're not going. Okay, but all your kids graduated, how many

kids have ended up in the penitenttion? I would say a and this giver takes some I may not know about, uh the move to other states and stuff, but I would stay. I would say out of a thousand we've probably had, which is two hundreds of a thousand, and that's still a much better ratio than the standard. You know what's going on in the schools, just if they would just go to school and grew up in these problematic environments. Right now, I'm overstating because I don't want

to go under. I would rather go over. Because we were at um the last time when we were really counting, where we sat down and talked about it because everything is such a whirlwind, it was twenty five din it gone. Yeah. I'm adding to that just to cover to be sure, because I don't want to leave anything out because it's abnormal, especially in the communities that we're in, like on the north Forest side, ain't have many children and their parents were in prison from there, and uh they on the

South side. But we've had amazing numbers. When we had met with t DC, Texas Department of Criminal Justice before and they assumed because it says out of every ten children with a parent in prison, six to nine go to prison okay, So if that's the case with our thousand should have been six And they asked me, okay, so how many because they were ready, they said about

six hundred. And at that point when I was asked that, I said no because I didn't even want to say twenty four because I didn't want any But it's true. It was sway four and I sent twenty four. The whole room was like, what, why with those type of numbers, with that type of success, why isn't no more victims? Like a billion dollar organization and funds like y'all should have a billion dollar budget, right, you should have a

billion dollar budget. Every politician and and so called activist organization should be descending on this company and saying, what is the formula we need to do this in our community? Why is that not happening the journey for this population of children? But I found I've been told so many hateful things like I'm not helping a dope things kid? Who said that? Just people through time and make those comments.

Give me a name, man, give me a name. Are things like, um, how do I know their daddy's off? The one that robbed me two years ago? I'm thinking the child was three. But these are people who run organizations of people who have means, who have money and resources, and politicians and people like business people making these type of comments. Yeah, it will. It's just politician didn't make that type because they never said that to me, but not to my face. But we've just dealt with or

I paid my taxes already. That's my donation to build more prisons because they're going anyway. You know, if you double over by the time you get away from them, because you're trying not to, you're trying not to really really come on across like you really want to. But those are just the things that I've been and I've never told our children that because that would only escalate what they already think and feel. But I, um, I just heard a lot of terrible things. Yeah, um, terrible things.

You know. There's a lot of victims, millions of victims. And why and I have to understand this, Why would they want to take care of the child of someone's a child who the father or mother has murdered someone and left this other family completely broken. Why would they want to do anything to support that child. So that's the mentality that comes across and when it comes to someone who's a victim and all that they've been through.

I have to understand that if their family member was murdered, their father is no longer there because of something the person that murdered them, and here's their children. This child is left, the victims child is now left, and this child, the child of the offender is left. Now you've got

two sets of wounded children. But who's gonna work. Who do you think they're gonna want to go towards when it comes to donating money and helping the family, It's going to be that child, the child of the victim. So we have so much work to do. There are a lot more programs now there are. Isn't that crazy that the child of the victim is indeed a victim, and that that kid needs a system love and support

to relief, needs love and support. But the child of the offender is equally a victim, and they didn't That's what I'm saying, And they they equally need support and love, relief assistance, and we have we need to work diligently to prevent the behavior from the offender's child from that behavior not to spiral into doing the same thing and being right now and right now, there's really any like type of proactive programs that when you identify a parent

who have done something egregious, especially something violent. Uh, there isn't anything to go in and you know, seek out those children to make sure those children number one half therapy get the property absolutely therapy that they need in order the process the events that occurred. All right, how does one get into No More Victim program? It's voluntary for our children. First of all, they have to want to do this. And um, the name of our our

program on school campuses is inspiring legends. Okay, so we want to keep it safe for them, not because at smiling no No More Victims was the name of the organization. I said, okay, you can create your own name. This is the organization's name, nonprofit. You can create a name that you want for your school. And they said nope. I said, we're probably gonna be bullied and really here it and they said, we want them to and I knew what that mean. We want somebody to say something

to us about it. And they would not let me give them a different name. They wouldn't do it. They said, we're tired of lying about where our parents are We're tired of always making up stories and excuses why they're not present our kids. And who was the old lady that picks you up all the top? They picked all the other kids are seeing that and laughing and making fun of him, and it's the grandparents. Bless her heart for what she does, and they stay in a you know,

fight mode. You know. They were now had something that totally focused on the dair reality and they weren't gonna let anybody getting away from it. And they said, that's who we're gonna be. So I said, blessed at them because I let them. They got to choose everything, they got to make all the decisions because they never really had any power. So I said okay, And sure enough those days came. And we even had a teacher make a statement to one of our kids, um, why you

ask him why you feel a math test? And the child said what and then said, aren't you in that no more victim's program? Are you gonna be a victim of your math class as well? Who said that? It was a teacher That child cried and cried and crashed. She held on, but when she came she found me down the highway and just fell, just fell on me. Was the teacher reprimanded? Uh, the teacher was removed. She got reprimanded. That was a female teacher. A melody, okay,

And it's just so many things. Is that you would never know unless you do the work, unless you're in the trenches. But the kids told me, Isa, we ain't in the trenches. He said, you're with us in the gutter. I said, well, that's where I want to be. They said, the trenches to step up. We're gonna come up and we're gonna take all the other kids with the very protective of their siblings future, of their future, but very I saw the most beautiful things their passion for their siblings,

um elder. They had such a respect for what had been given to them that they wanted to get so many good things for that. Grandparents or maybe it was their older team was their guardian because mama. A lot of times the grandparents in the penitentiary too. But the child is eight team turning nineteen, that becomes they are a major player in their lives. But they are. If you act like you're going to hit a job, they're gonna intervene. They don't care if you mild the store,

it doesn't matter. They're gonna step up and try to protect that baby. And to see that after all they've been through that passionate. It's amazing when a kid comes into the program for the first time day one. What is the process of getting that kid to see things in a different way, because usually when you've been you know, brought up in an abusive UH situation, you've had neglected parents, you know, you think everything that's right is wrong and

everything wrong is right. How do you reverse it? What are some of the steps that you take, some of the first steps you take when you come in. First of all, it's a choice. This is how we initially initially started. You can come in and you can't just sit in there. You're gonna have to come in and say why to the entire group, and it's smiling. We averaged a hundred fifteen a class. They gave us the largest classroom on campus, so you had to get up

in front of your peers. Half been fighting since the third grade. Then you had a gang issues that were very prevalent on campus that were right there in the classroom as well, and you have to stand up in front of everybody and make a decision whether you're going to stay or not if you're willing to give something about yourself. Now you don't just walk in and get to sit down. You have to be sworn in what you were, which is a great honor, especially when you're not,

you know, a child at that moment. So once you come in, they'd give you the rules if you can have eye buy and then we go to the next step. Now they're gonna ask you questions because they need to know they can trust you. But you're gonna have to tell us about you. And when they start talking and the things that they say is always very emotional because they've held it so long. We've had children that have actually vomited in class. Whence they released it, the release

was so great. And then the kids, the students vote on you. It is got to be unanimous. Now, remember most of them been fighting, and it's so beautiful to see how compassionate the whole classroom begins to be once they start healing. Didn't they understand and to see them almost be like defense attorneys against the d A going back and forth, Well, I don't I don't like her because she used to do what well, what if she does do that anymore. Now though you're just gonna throw away.

We could have thrown you away. Oh it's beautiful. I just sit back and watch this beautiful protection of the program, but protection of each child. And then once you get sporning in, that's the reason to celebrate. And then you take an oath, and which you take the oath, you're in for life. And they they wanted it to be a program forever. And twenty two years later, they are spectacular in the originals are still right there with me.

I've got hundreds of grand babies now and then now we're in the third generation because one of the grandchildren just had our first, my third generation baby, so we're in generation three. But it's it's amazing because but you gotta have some real courage to do that. And it's you can't just come in and so other states that have colleges, and once I talk to them, you can't just take every child. There's got to be something that

says you're gonna keep our confidentiality. And once we the kids created that process, then they felt good about everything. But you just let kids come in and they don't have to have any accountability whether they're gonna stay or not. Other kids know you're hearing it, and they'll quickly it'll turn into a until home miss because they're not gonna let you keep coming. They're gonna stop. You got boys, the podcast will be right back back. You work with

these kids on a daily basis. We're talking like dozens of kids on a daily basis who have major, major like trauma. You wear your heart on your sleeve. You internalize that stuff. You take this stuff home. I know that for a fact. Take this stuff home. You're rive down the street with it. How do you keep your sanity? How do you How does Merlin process it to make sure that Maryland stays healthy? And when Merlin doesn't feel healthy, when Merlin feels like she needs a break, what does

Merlin do to get through it? Yea? I have felt overwhelmed many many days still do um. I had to get to a place of well. I teach the kids about how important is to write your feelings out, but I wouldn't do it. I'm too exhausted to now sit down and write after all day and driving through the traffic, and you're going to more than one school now too,

so it's all day long. But I have. Finally, u Kinsey has probably been my greatest therapist because she's emergency room and she sees the gunshot wounds and things that happened, and she's always wanted to work physically and help help

him heal physically. Yes, shout out to Mackenzie at Madison because now she's an emergency room and I would tell her what I would process was her what just experiences through the day, and she would process with me what she thought, and that was that became a really healing place and the healing thing for both of us to do. Um. God knows I need to nothing. I really don't. I really don't just have some set thing that I do because everything is involving somehow directly connecting to that. Now,

the ocean does have a great impact on that. If I just get I don't even have to get in and just let me hear it. But to be there, that's my greatest killing, just the calmness that it brings a kind of regroup. But it's never it's never NonStop. It's on the phone trying to handle things, and it's writing constantly getting this and plans together. But the priority is that I have all these stain plans I've written, but what do you want to talk about? Today? Every day,

every class is what do you want? Because things could have happened last night, and they usually have. We've had children that were sexually assaulted overnight over the weekend. So once they talk, you need to go father report and get other people involved. That you have to with some law enforcement and and CPS, and then you have to get them ready because it's also UH testifying in court

and it's UH. They've seen their parents shot. We have murder, we have murdered parents, but we have missing parents as well. Been missing twenty five years, no jail time, no prison time, disappeared completely and we've talked with the FBI. We do everything we can to give some kind of peace enclosure because our children carry so much artur parent comes home from prison and still doesn't reconnect with the child our season for ten minutes, never saw him before until they

got out. Seeson has a conversation, I'm going to the store and drives off forever. Then the child's thinking, well, did he or she not like me because they think I'm ugly or maybe I'm not their kid? Now once against their fault. So we worked so and move forward and then they get not back again. So it's like every adult in their lives is let them down some some way. And but when just come home and they know that what they need to do, there's not to make it. But I just don't never really see that.

You mentioned that every adult in their life I've let them down at some point. That's how they feel. And they come in. Your job is to get them to trust you. How do you get them to trust you? First? And also let me say this, you're a white woman and majorities kids are black and Hispanic, right, how does how do you get them to trust you? Um, that's

a good question been asked that many types. When when what I found is when you come in and don't have this agenda already planned out, and you're very rigid, and sometimes you can think that you may very well be when you come in warm, just really warm. Okay, what do you want to talk about? Whatever you want to do, this is your class. You have all the power, tell me what you would like. And of course they're they're still checking you out, but that sounds pretty good.

And as they get to talking and then just okay, and and you're not oh, my God, Well, don't you dere cut you know, none of that, none of that. Leave them alone and just let them be who they are and accept them right where they're at. Don't try to change them. These are some of the most breeding human beings on the face of the earth and can survive under the worst of circumstances. So we need to be honoring m when we walk in there with them,

we're in the presence of greatness. We they are the greatness, and I come just that's exactly how I see it, and I'm I'm honored. But David let me in. They let me in, and yes, being wide and it's all these other things that could have been obstacles and they weren't for the child. I think also, your reputation precedes you. I think that a lot of kids because they vouched for you, some of the kids before they get in that they're willing to give you the benefit of doubt.

And so that's you know, that's maybe softens you know, the blow a little bit. You know, um, Lifetime did a movie about you back in two thousand five, right Beating the Fight, the Merlin Gambrell story. How did they come about? That? Was? I'm still stunned even all these years later. But we had a lot of media coverage from CNN, which led two different like People Magazine. It just it was we didn't even we were only two

years old. Well I hadn't even got my feet wet yet to really know, because I had no model to follow when I started the program. So we kind of overwhelmed all of us because I have work to do, and the kids don't want all that. You can have a little but they don't. They don't want you in there with cameras. We that's our space. We want to talk and now we're not gonna talk because you're in there, you know, the media, all the cameras. So then we had U S News and World Report, cop that's a

business journey. And I said, but we don't fit with y'all usually cover and the person says, um me and another one of the journalists thought that this would really be something to show America, to show the world, and they said, may not even they might not even give you a page, but if anything, maybe one. I said, well, you have to do it. It's okay if we don't know, we think that this is worthwhile. We ended up with

five pages I couldn't believe it. Now it's it's up to all the calls coming in and from around the world. It wasn't just you know, America, it was from it was from everywhere. We were started from Greece, from Scotland, from it was amazing. So that excuse me. There was a and director for a new are the movie for Lifetime movies. He was one of the ones that had all the presented a lot of movies actually for Lifetime.

And he was getting on a plane and the US Now News Report, World Report was in the back look thing. The little packet were the as a really by the steed. It was behind the scene in front of him, and he reached over and and you know, they cleaned those out pretty quickly after the plane is empty. So I don't know why that one made it in there, but he pulled it out and said, oh us, you know, he's looking for about what his stocks and stuff are going on, and he stumbled across our story. He said

he read it ten times. He couldn't wait to get off the plane. Now we're getting a lot of calls now, so all of a sudden, here comes a calm, Yes, this is John from this movie movie company, and we're interested in doing the story on you for lifetime. And I said, no, it's not. He said, ma'am, it is. I said stop and I hung up. I can't wait to get my hangar a phone call because I hear a lot of these stories. People say, well, Quincy Jones, car and I said, Quincy Jones. I hung up the phone.

I have never done that before, like you know, so I need to give me one of those. I need something like that. And they said, Ms. Gambrielle, we really want to come see you. They said, what don't you just call us bat And I said, yeah, but you you could answer the phone saying you're the same thing. If I call you, I wit please saw I call back. They answered and gave their name, the company's name, and they flew in two weeks later, one just to sign

a contract. Meant with the board. I said, will take two years to do it because we're gonna send in writers and all these people. Well, and they came to class. The one who found me first from the plane. They came to class and he cried like a baby. The kids gave permission for him to be in there. If they said no, he had to go didn't care for you a movie producer, the vice president, you're out that

it's their program. And they said, no, that's okay, and they just talked about their journey and he just he couldn't hardly take it. So now he's really on fire. So he brought in the writers and other people and they just kind of followed the surround and were sent to send the script to me as it was being done, and they were telling me which scene had just gotten filmed, and you know, it was just it just was so surreal,

like I'll believe that in Canada, Calgary. So they said, we want to bring you in, maybe bring five of the kids in and put y'all in the booie. I said, okay, and now I've got all these children now bye. So I picked five that I thought could handle it and wouldn't kind of panic and be what those cameras came

at him, and that would be able to articulate. Not know so much in the movie because they did have a speaking part, but they found their way in front of the cameras and passing these kids going up and down the hallway. They got in there. They were great and they featured them in the auditorium. Mine were the whole row that was right there, and so that I got to be in it. I said eight words, so

I had about eight seconds. But if you didn't know me, I ready, you would never know that it was me because all the energy was on Jamie Gertz, who played me, And it was just amazing. Then they flew us back in and they did a Hollywood premier for us, but what and there was four hundred people there and the kids and kids everybody got to come in that time, and it was just amazing. I'm still stunned, and I'm

still stunned. So what a joy though, I think about it is that you're not done, like you've done so much more like hell, you probably got a body at least three or four books, you know. You know what I really really appreciate about the program and what you do is that you you empower the kids. See that's what worked for me. M hmm. All the way to nine grade, I just blew all those teachers away, like I mean like like I blew them off. It's like

there's no big deal. I never really took school and serious. And one day my science teacher who was in my homeroom teacher, Mrs Mrs Emma Oliver. Bless God, bless miss Emma Oliver. At Farest Brook High School. She um after me and my buddy came in her class clown and singing and stuff with trench coaching and hats on and stuff, just adding a food. She made me sit in front of the class. Then the next day she made me

write the daily objective on the board. I always thought that the kids who wrote the daily objective on the board was the smart kids. So all of a sudden, I'm feeling I'm feeling smart. You know, I didn't never think I was a dummy, but I didn't really think I was like one of the smart kids. Right, So this was, you know, usually reserved for the smart kid, and I also the obedient kid, right, I never thought I definitely wasn't the obedient kid. So here I am.

I'm writing a daily objective on the board. So now I feel a sense of respond instability. Then she made me keep names when she would leave the room. Now I had had no idea what she was doing to me, but she was working me, and she was empowering me. She delegated the thirty to me to give me some sense of responsibility, So I felt responsible. She knew if I can get this one under control, he'll control the

rest of them, because who wants to go against him? Right, So every time she came back into the classroom, the classroom was quieter than it was before she left, because nobody wanted any problems with me, right, And then also not to say she needed my protection, but it was there. I was like a nobody messing with Miss Oliver. Anybody got a problem with Miss Oliver, got a problem with me? And I see that same type of energy with your children. Your kids have that same amount of energy. Ain't nobody

missing with Miss Granbrell. If you mess with Miss Gambril, it's on. And so I don't understand why more educators, more counselors don't do stuff like that. They don't empower the children. They come in. It's my thing, it's my program, it's my way of the highway, and they and it's and you're you're talking to kids, and you're trying to get the best out of them, and you know, you're trying to relate to that that you were you're supposed to be, trying to relate to their feelings and stuff

like that. But you really are really dismissing their feelings when you have this type of attitude of my way or the highway, Like, did you consciously go in from day one thinking like, well, I'm going to empower them? Was that at any point that you did it differently and you said, well, I think I can do better. I'm doing it the wrong way. Did you come in day one doing it where you were empowering the kids

day one? Yes? And the reason why is I knew what worked for me and how you treated me and what you said to me would have it impact me. Then of course that we have the same in path with them, you know, So what do y'all want to do? Okay, You're giving me the abilty to make a choice, to have power to make decisions over what I want, and I don't have any power anywhere else in my life, so I knew that would work. And the first day

m hmm. Well um. The main thing is that you keep that door open for the child and whatever they say, don't pan can make all these demands. And because with their natural way of being may make you uncomfortable, you might like, if you don't cuss, you don't this, you don't. It's about them, it's not about you. They're not trying to do anything wrong or be disrespectful. This is just

the way they communicate. You can watch children and think they're getting a little bit too rowdy and beating each other up and bullying each other, and if you try to intervene in that, they're gonna come after you because that's how they play. So you have to start understanding the culture and the subculture behavior, everything that's in there.

You have to not bring your own mentality from your own Like me being white coming in from and never ever being around African American children, I wondered where they were. I can't wait. I thought I wanted to be with all these other children that I hear Jesus loves the little children, Ben and Blood, you weren't yellow, black and white. Point the podcast will be right back after the point. M So. I grew up in the bad area. There have fighter near there, so I always thought, well, where

are they? How much fun would that be? So when I'm with them, I knew for a lot of them, I was the first white person, not just smell or female, that they might have been around. So I'm just looking at all of that. But but I just came in with wood do y'all want to do? And I was high energy? Uh was it like? What did you say? Mm hmmm. I would sometimes repeat it back to him and they would be what I said, Yeah, I know, I know some words and would just laugh and laugh.

But because we laugh, we laughed a lot humor, so healing and so healthy. Anybody know, anybody got a good joke, it's gonna be a clean wind. No, but cut up and they would talk and laugh, and I what we honored birthdays. We had birthday cakes. We see, I'm thinking we had a birthday the fourth we started January four. What by the seventh it was a birthday. We were only four days old. So I'm gonna bring a big

cake for every child. I had all these big plans, got him a new backpack, and then pretty soon I was having ten birthdays a month. They any more break those down to some cupcakes. Get the cupcakes and only you get one. You know, it's just so massive, But they knew they were gonna be honored. I took them to eat all the time, to places that they had never been and still do still do, and they just get so excited, and but then I hear them talk

about it. Man, I want to pop those this weekend, you know, so proud of the life experiences and seeing, yeah, you you can do that too. You deserve to do that, and we're going to do it more. And then when you are older and working, I can meet you there with your children. Anyway, that's cool, you know, making it all and now it's looking like, oh my god, these things are possible. And then going to college, they do even think. There were a lot of our children didn't

think they were going to live. They won't go to college. They were gonna get killed some and they're on neighborhood just because a lot that was going on arm they were going to kill themselves because they were I didn't want to live anymore, or the penitentiary. They didn't see any options. I know. You you just experienced something like that one of your kids. Last was it last year your kids? One of your kids was murdered? Okay, yeah, well it was something about last It was was last year?

Is when the case was coming up with something the trial or something like that. No, No, that it wasn't because the guy committed suicide who killed him right right, And this was one of your brightest stars. I mean it's one of the kids doctor from Colombia. Yeah, well, I was handing the charts to Divine. He was going to take over the school program component and I was going to start working. We were going to write a book together and he was going to take care of

the schools. And knew we were going to hire more of our veteran members who had started with me and Smiley, hire them who had gotten degrees and became social workers to now run on the different campuses to do the program. But he was going to be the top one. The kids absolutely adored him. He was so handsome and so smart and so funny and they just were And he has an identical twin brother, identical so to see him together and he went to Forest Brook, he was it

was they were just so lovely. And when that happened, his mom called me then I've never been the same since. How did he get on the trajectory of success and being this progressive kid that came through the program, so progressive that you identified him as a person to pass the torch two and then he ends up getting derailed, you know, after seemingly having it all together. Well, I

don't know if I ever say deralled. He was in a relationship and begin to see it was the person that he was seeing was beginning to stalk him and show some violent tendencies. So he wanted out of the relationship and the person came back and killed him. Um, because he was happy, he brought the guy to see me. I got to meet him. And then when I asked his mom, but who what happened? And it was the same name, And I was sick to my stomach. But he was Devon was very, very quiet, but that radar

was going constantly. He was watching everything around him, and he was dealing with Perilla incarceration. And bless his fabulous grandmother and grandfather because they they're so precious that took care of them. And the mother. She took the kids to see their mom in prison. She wanted them to clearly know that was their mother, she was the grandmother. So she worked really hard to keep that relationship going. And he graduated from l s U, which was his goal.

But when he came to class one day, I said to mine, if you want to come bet with us, you can do it. No, thank you, just the sweet just so precious, and I said, okay, because I know you're uncomfortable. And and then the day did decide to go. He told his teacher that he was coming to know more victims that day, and the teacher said, what, why would you go in there with those kids? They're all going to prison anyway? Broke his heart and he said, I am one of those kids, and I'm going. And

it shook him to his core. But he came. And I just kept watching and looking and never talking. But I saw it in him, and I said, you want to go to Sacramento to a children's defense filling conference with me? And I took another student and I was looking everywhere. We had finished the day, all the assemblies and everything. I couldn't find him anywhere. Lord, now we're in California. Where is this top? I'm looking everywhere, so stopping people on the sidewalk that with the big conference.

They said, you know what, there is still a group of kids that's over in the cafeteria. And I went in there and there's the arm with all these college students and they're all having a debate, and he is just controlling the whole thing. He's just firing answers off and responses, and they were saying, are you They were all amazed with him. But I heard him, and I

knew the fire was lit. I've watched it get lit right there, and from that point foreward, every when he went to Connecticut with me and another one of the kids and he got he started speaking publicly. Wherever I went, I took him and that voice. People just were so

amazed with him. Then he graduated from l s U. He went on he won the Tuman Scholarship, first African American in l s u's history to win the scholarship, and then from there went on to Colombia beginning his doctorate, and he was murdered and we were just he was so ready to take it. He was so excited. So I'm still not where I need to be. But like I didn't want to ride anymore, quit everything. I just I just wasn't up to it. But now out I'm

getting ready. His best friend in Irony, I'm gonna write that book, and he's about to get his doctorate because coming but we're starting. Our Dr Devonte Wade Social Justice Reform Initiative is named after him and all the social justice issues that he wanted to make better. He wanted to resolve to make the whole the world a better place. So he wasn't going to change the world. He had already started changing the world. He wasn't going too it was happening. What a loss, What a loss to the

world the universe. Yeah, that was a girl that you told me about years ago. That was in a motel room. We were have pimp or a drug dealer, and he went up there and got her, went in the room. You challenged it the guy who was it was? It was the guy a drug dealer. Drug dealer went in the room in third ward? Was that third one that happened that? What was it? I know you didn't go to Fifth War over that? You went the Fifth War

over that? Oh man? Okay. So so he went up to a motail room within fifth ward and challenged a drug dealer about his what this woman was? It was just his girlfriend, right, they might have been, but he was dealing with her, and I think we crossed over the pimp as well. Back and forth. So you get a call from her saying that she's in distress, and you this this this this white woman show up in fifth ward. If y'all don't know fifth ward fam. Uh let's just say, you know, if you see a white

person there, uh, it would be abnormal. Okay, So do you show up and you do what? I went on upstairs and you know that it was where the rooms are on that the doors are all on the outside. Had to go up the stairs and real motel. Yeah, we kick doing moteel and she told me what room and you know, I wasn't afraid. And I looked back and think, did you just not realize where what was? Really?

Where I was? I knew clearly where I was. But when it's a child, because she was a miner, you better get off your ass and go do what you need to do. That I did. So you went there and you knocked on the door. He opens the door

and didn't he have a gun? Yeah? I had a good So he opens the door with the gun in his hand, head in his hand, and I'm see her behind him and I said, said, come on, let's go, and he just looked at me like, if you are just crazy to come up here and do this, then you probably have something on you, a weapon or something on you. Because I had no fear, and maybe that was just you know what you do what you gotta do, and I deal with the rest whatever comes. But he

didn't argue or do anything. I just took her with me. Then, do you have any contact with her today? Oh? Yeah, she's doing great. He's got two babies. That's good. He's doing well. But we we've had some terrible things. Um which had some terrible things happened where a mother is using drugs and she owes the dealer and she had

got into a new apartment. She got into another complex and there was no furnituring thing in there, but she had gotten the key and so she was in there and she had her daughter with her, who's one of ours. But I didn't know the child when this happened, and she, thank god, she told the daughter, this is where our new apartment is going to be, and had the child

come upstairs. She was sixteen and she had walked downstairs to get something and saw him down the alley, because you know, you can look down as you walked down and saw him, and he saw her and he comes running for her. She's trying to get up the stairs. Now. She lost from a size sixteen to a size zero, which is very common depend on what drug you're used.

And he got up there. She used to lock the door, and he kicked it in and got in there and undid the knob, and when he got in there, he held a gun on her and the daughter, and he was hitting her with the mom and kicked her and told her to crawl over and in the corner, and she did. And then he said, this is how we're going to take care of this closed off and said that to the daughter. So this is a this is a minor. Was she a minor at the time. No,

I'm talking about the girlfriend. Huh. The girlfriend is a minor, The daughter is a minor. It was the mother, the mother. How old is the mother, probably almost at that time, the mother's almost forty. And how it is the daughter of the miner. Okay, so the drug So she old the drug dealer money. Okay, So the drug dealer comes. He happened to see her because he was looking for and he came running. He saw what steps, he went

up and she'd like the door. And but he get here in there telling her daughter to hide and kick the door in, and the made he held he had the gun on the mom, told the daughter to get her clothes off, and she was of course horrifying, and the mother was, please don't, please, don't you can kill me. Don't, please, don't do anything to my daughter. And he raped her in front of the mother and she was just sitting

in the corner like a na fetal position. So the child, she was new to our school, and one of the the school secretary said, I don't know what's wrong, but don't though she's in live pain and her mom's a daddy to her to come be with us. So she came in. But she she was the saddest child to look at her. She was so sad. And then she said, I want to talk, okay. She came up to the further room. She asked me to stay by her, but she was pregnant. I said, okay. She said to the

whole class, what I just told you? None of us knew that, and she said, and now I'm six months pregnant. It was from there the hope what had happened to what happened to this unseviled eyes much? I don't, I don't know what happened to him under the mom went into treatment. That she went into treatment, and she wasn't in jail or anything. But she just went into treatment after that. I don't know anything about him. I never heard them say his name. But this child, that's what

was going on. She was carrying them and she's gotten infected as well. But she had two STDs. Did it's been really it didn't facture. So but I'm not the only one. There's there's so many people working so hard and doing good things in their life. They put their lives on the life, they give up what they have. They worked so hard to be sure that children and whatever population they are getting what they need. But it's America.

Just gotta wake up our politicians, everybody. We've got a lot more word to do than arguing the White House with the Capitol Building. We our children are in terrible, terrible danger every time keeping secrets and and then they get to school and they cut up and act up, so we throw them out, put them in juvie. It isn't that the American way. You'd like to put a mand aid on stuff like America just I don't think

America is interested in real solutions. Uh. They love to be reactionary, even if it's even something as simple as a traffic uh light, right you can have an intersection where people are constantly having neres and people are nearly getting hit by cars and stuff are they're getting hit. There's accidents all the time, and they won't have a signal lat to stop sign or anything until somebody gets killed. As soon as somebody get killed, it goes up overnight,

like this is not preventative at all. And you know, finally, human trafficking has been here forever. Children have been traffic forever. But now that that right after um children, incarcerated parents popped up on the radar for a very brief period of time, human trafficking became next, and just that got shut down and that became the biggest thing. And thank god that Now there's so many programs and shelters and apartment complexes dedicated to pulling getting women out of those situations.

But males get in the same situation. They get traffic to we don't talk about what happens to them as well. So we've got we do talk about it, but not nearly on the scale. It should be something we're also familiar with because we hear so much about it, what's being done about it. But the boy, the boys are the boys are being molested and raped, not just by men,

but also by boys, older boys. Absolutely, you know, like so used to be a time you can just put the boys in the room and say, okay, all the boys going the room, and you know, no big deal. You know, you never have to worry about stuff like that. But now, you know, you get a boy that's you know, five years old, you know, in the same room with a boy at seven or eight, he might molest them, even eleven year old. Put eleven year old in the same room with us eight year old, absolutely he might,

he might, he might molest him, you know so. And then you also got women who are also violated to women are sexual abusers. And that's something that's don't nearly get talked about enough. That's a that's a plethora of issues that we have to deal with in this country that we just won't confront And what do we do. Well, we don't have a budget, we don't have enough money, but we always got money for war. We always got money to build another monument or museum or park or stadium.

And we got that kind of money. You know, we got that money. All that money has come out of nowhere. But when you talk about using money for for preventive preventative measures. You know, that's why when people say defund the police, they are talking about totally getting rid of the police. They're talking about diverting a lot of those funds instead of constantly getting new police officer, more hiring

more police officers, more, more equipment, more guns. They're saying, if we would was a healthier nation, if we were healthier people, we wouldn't need as many services from law enforcement. We so we could use that money that we're pumping in the law enforcement to actually help ourselves. Uh. In the mental health department, we can use that money for uh for drug addiction, we can use we could use

that money for mental illness. You know, we could use that money to to educate so that we don't have as many children who are teenage parents. You know, that's what we're talking about. And we don't want to confront that. It's always an excuse. And then you put a lot of these people in position of power or an authority over these kids, and what do they do abuse their authority? A lot of them. You know, So, man, we we gotta uphill about Maryland. And I'm glad you're on the

front line. I really do. I mean, I really do appreciate you. I you know, uh I would cry, but it ain't gangster, you know. But but man, I really do love you. I appreciate you. You You are necessary. The work that you've put in is immeasurable. I don't know a lot of people that that that put it in the way you put it in, you know, like and you risk it all and you you take it with you on a daily basis. You wake up with it, you go to sleep with it, and that's commendable to me.

I salute you, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you. And I do want to say there's so many amazing, precious teachers as time has gone on that I've seen that are they will let me know off a child needs something, if the child maybe doesn't want to tell them, but they sent it. So I do want to acknowledge that. And I'm so grateful to be at the schools. Um it's a it's a lot of work. We've got a lot more schools that we need to

be in and there are so many more programs. Bless everyone that's working in human trafficking, because I've gone through that quite a few times. To get the child horrible things right up straight from the school. Shout out to Kathy Griffin. Shout out to Kathy Griffin Griffin, love love, love you. And she's been in the fight forever and coming from that and healing. She's impacted so many lives. Yes, love you Kathy. So there's there's just there are things

going on. But we still need a lot more. But we need money to have staff that can be trained to help get into more schools, more places, do more things. We need to have more money just to take them places, exposed them to things. And thank god they do get to go on college trips from high school and visit college campuses. But we just need to go have fun too, h Just go laughing and eat and laughing, just have

a ball. But they are are I have Our children were the most brilliant and as I said, while I go, they are absolutely brilliant. Their survivors. They can take care of nine years old, taking care of younger siblings and kept it under the radar and nobody new. But if they go to the corner store or they're selling drugs that young, they do guess to keep their siblings fed. That's not to be cool, because you're dealing weed or

drugs or whatever that is a that survival. They shouldn't even be in that situation, but they are and they'll never tell. So I just make sure that the whole family has food. I just drop it off. Hey, I'll just if you wanted this just to because you know in your soul, your spirit that they're struggling and they're not always going to tell you. They're shamed or they've

been told you did not say anything. So you just have to be on your game enough to be able to identify it and then you you go from there with some wisdom about how to make it happen. The trust thing is a very big part of it. It's like a certain words that you say, certain things that you do that it'll just open up the floodgates for communication and they'll tell you everything because sounds like you alluded to earlier that they are dying to have that conversation.

They won't express themselves, but they feel suppressed. It's a lot of fear and they've been told they better not tell yeah, from family members, so they're they try to just keep it inside. But I'm just so grateful that we're there. Where you can come in. They might not say it the first day, they'll tell you enough that they've earned to be able to be in there for

a minute. But when they do, and there's nothing like in the child we always there's always we've never not had a child voting in, you know, And people they don't, they don't understand that. That's you have to put something in place where they feel protected, and you've got some rules and you've got to measure up to get in it.

You have to because kids can't come in and out whenever they want to, and all this confidential earthshaking information is floating constantly in our classroom and you have to. But they decided how they wanted it to run, and I thought they were brilliant. Let me get into your business a little bit. With no more victims, the budget the annual budget for nor more victims. Are you guys okay? Like, do you have you okay with money? Uh? Do you need more donations? No? We need we need we need

so much you need donations? How does one donate to know more victims? You can? We have merged now with launch Point C. D. C Inkinson on the north side and uh, just send it go to their web. Go to the website. It's the launch Center dot org and we're all there and you can see how to just push it. Push the button and send the money in directly for us. It will be designated to our program. Uh. It's an amazing program and Mr Ivory Mayhorn is the founder of that. And you might yeah, and I think

I've interviewed. I've interviewed yesterday. He's wonderful and he's an activist. He feeds about five family members every two weeks off a little yard and he's always been a supporter. We've been partners as community UM activists for twenty five thirty years now. So he's amazing. And Uh, the launch Center dot org and you pull it has the phone number on there when you pull that up, and it has a way to donate into what program you want to donate to. We have two videos on there and Divine

is in the Nick News video. You can see this child and you'll see the greatness when you see him talking and he's a senior on that video, but he's talking to mothers in prison. So and his mother had just been transferred from there a week earlier. We would have actually seen her they maybe wouldn't have allowed us to be in there because they were family, but she had just left. But thank you for asking that we

always need COVID, not just off our feet. Pretty good, you know, because a a lot of donations and things stopped because nobody knew what the future was going to hold with money. They were holding onto their money, which is understandable. And we're still not out of the woods, but we certainly will appreciate all the support we can get because we're gonna have quite a few children graduating in May and we have amazing celebrations when it comes

to the graduation. I know that people do different stuff for kids for graduations. You have people that donate prim dresses and tuxedos and things of that nature. So, uh, family, you know, if if y'all you know you're feeling the program, you feel like it's it's a service that that is needed and you appreciate it, you know, reach out to them and see what you can do, you know, see see how you can get involved. Uh you know, you know, it's one thing to talk about it is is a whole

another thing to be about it. Yeah, absolutely, And Gambrier Family also your social media handles, No More Victims, Do you have anything? You're on social you're not on social media? Okay, well you know that Mr Mayhart is setting all that up now because we're getting at a home new website, so he's saying it up. But right now, if they want to reach out, they can go to the what's the website, No More Victims website? It's the Launch Center dot org and then you program and then from there

we can communicate and everything. All right, that's the rep Fam No More tub. This episode was produced by a King and brought to you by The Black Effect Podcast Network and Heart Radio