Child Support Reform feat. Cassandra Daniels

Don't get it twisted on code and me and dancing for no Buttoment biscuits. It's Willie d y'all scar faces in the building. Collectively we are the ghetto boys, reloaded with another episode of information and instructions to help you navigate through this wild, crazy, beautiful world. In the studio, Family attorney, child support activists Cassandra Daniels, Hey, y'all, hey, thanks for having me if I feel so honored to

be here. You don't look like an attorney, like a regular right, what I'm looking like look like everybody's gonna be hiring you already. H that's what they need. That's what they need to do, whatever that look is. You know, I always thought it was interesting, like you know what

you do? Uh. I know that you're a family attorney, but like, like, explain this dichotomy of being a family lawyer and a child support advocate, whereas you know, your primary focus is the cohesiveness of the family, correct me from wrong cohesiveness of the family, while at the same time advocating for the parent who has to pay child support. You know, does that ever become problematic? Well, it's not

a dichotomy for me, um, my approach to there. You know, your approach to your profession is unique to you, right, So you I can be in it for the money, I can be in it for trying to you know, separate families. I could be in it for a saving family. So it's it's what it's an individual approach. My approach to what I do as a family lawyer is just about advocating for what's right. Right, So in the divorce case that maybe representing the wife, representing the husband. It

just depends on the facts. Um. The reason why as a family lawyer and just as a human being, I ride for and I advocate for child support reform is because of the injustices that I see as an as the law is applied in real life. What are some of the injustices you see? So, like, I have a client that that's the one that I've been really talking about a lot, Like Lee. So I have a client

his one of my clients cases. Um, he is currently still paying child support or has an obligation to pay back child support for a child that has been determined that it is not his by DNA evidence. And we had our day in court. We lost because we did not file our suit. Timly, that's the only reason why I was thrown out because it we did not file our our suit before the expiration of the statue of limitation.

So for here, for, here, for and forevermore he will be on the hook for paying over forty dollars in. That's Christopher Crin, Christopher Kron. So yeah, this is a wild case to me because this guy, they proved that he was not the father and then the DNA test results got lost. Family, listen to what I'm saying. The state claims that they lost the DNA results, They lost the results where they determined paternity, and then they said that he waited too long to prove that he wasn't

the father. Yeah, there's a four year statual limitation. Yeah, that he had. There's absolutely nothing that can be done. That's bullshit. Yeah, there's absolutely nothing that Now. The only thing according to the state law right now, that that that's a remedy left for him. He can follow a petition to have his parents child relationship terminated. And what that would do for him is because when you have when you owe back child support, there's arrears, there's I'm sorry,

there's interest at a cruise six at this point. And so if we follow the petition determine the parent child relationship, then it will stop the arrears from a crewing on the forty thousand and he has, but it won't wipe away what he has what he owes currently. And I said, I'm sorry, does who gets I don't know. I'm assumed to go back to the state. I'm assuming it goes back to the state because they don't go to mom

and Christopher's case. They said that, okay, we won't charge you for what your old mom, but we need our peace right. So what does federal law say? So, so all of this comes down from what they call Title four D, right, and that that comes from the federal government. And that's that's a title. That's not that's not a law. That's just well, it's it's it's a provision of the law from the federal government that deals with child support.

What does the Constitution say. The Constitution doesn't speak specifically about child support. So why is this in the law? Now, this is crazy. I'm just saying, right, I get it. So there are, like I said, on the on the federal level, there are acts and provisions that have been implemented as it relates to the Social Security Act. Right,

we know the Social Security Act. And under the umbrella of the Social Security Act is the welfare well welfare programs that deals with you know, all the stuff that we know about Medicaid and and food stamps and and TANNEF and all of that. And then underneath that umbrella as well is titled four D, which deals with child support,

establishment of paternity, establishment of child support. And a lot of this is in connection to the welfare system because it's an opportunity for the states and the federal government to reimburse themselves for the cost of these services and benefits that they provide to families. Wouldn't that be considered like that dabtor's jail like debtors. Isn't that like illegal? Right? So we need to address this ship bro, Like this is getting out of hand. So a lot of people

I've heard it. I've heard it, Um, I've heard that that assimilation being made that to you know, debts, dabtis, prisons, and and the collection of child support. I don't know if I can make that connection because I can only speak to you from what I understand about the law and Texas law at that. Right, Um, people are not being thrown in jail specifically because they owe money, right, Um. A lot of times people are thrown in jail. They can be thrown in jail for the non payment of right,

but they have to show. In order for someone to be thrown in jail for a non payment of child support, after finding enough criminal contempt, it has to be shown that they had the ability to pay, but they just didn't, so their their their violation of the court order by not paying was willful. That's what has to be shown for them to go to jail. Yeah, but that's the easiest part in the world to show. Why do you say that, because I mean, I know a ton of people that did I went to jail for this ship.

But did they show that it was did they show that I went to I went to jail. Uh and and with the ku klux klan. Oh yeah, because that that lady, that white judge, it was a lady. Um what's that ladies name? She didn't want to hear none of that. I was like, man, I've been, I've been, I've been. Uh, I don't know what. I don't know what had happened. But I had already paid it. I've already paid it once. Right, it's already been paid once. You got a lawyer, I did, but I think the

lawyer wanted my money. Yeah, so the lawyer wanted the money. See when I've already paid child support already, like an astronomical amount of money. But if you don't pay that money through the courts, yeah, man, yeah to the person. Let the court paid the the person. Right, that's a great point. Then that's a gift. Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great I got screwed, Yeah, that's a great point.

So what he what he's talking about is um, one, if the state prefers that all child support payments go through the state. What does the state have to do with the relationship between the kids, the mom and the father. What does the state have to do with this? That's that's that's okay. I I think that's a great question. I think that's a great question. And I can't speak for the state. I can't speak for the federal government. I can only tell you what they say, right, I

can speak for the state and the government. It's about money, like everything else, it's about that money. Mean is it's about the money. It's about the money with the state and the government. But I don't even think it's about the money. I think it's about tearing the family apart, especially with black people, and ultimately that boils down the money, right because why why else what they want to task apart?

But but to keep their foot on our neck, right, that's what to try to make sure that we remain a permanent under class. And then when you catch a professional child supportmociply, who doesn't you don't care about none of that? Who don't know what the what's what's going on between the government and black men? They down with the government because they want to turn they I mean, they government want them to turn their backs on us

just as they have. You know, before we go, before we go any further, let's let's be crystal clear that we when we talk about child support reform, uh, we're not riding for dead beats. We're not riding for dudes who don't take care of their babies, the dudes that try to uh circumvent their parental responsibilities. We're not talking

about those dudes, you know. We're talking about the guys who the government in the state takes advantage of, who when they know this guy as a job and he's just getting by and they come in and take everything he got, and it's it gets to a point of where it d be like, man, you know what, I may as well not work at all. I'd rather not even work at all then to go on record and just be working basically to get this woman some money.

Let me ask you question. So if the government it's saying, um, well, I think that the state or not I'm sorry I was the state says well, I think that the best um way to fix this is that you pay you know, a month to the man. Shouldn't a lady be responsible for the other seven fifty shouldn't be a split since

it's half a kid. I'm just asking you mean in general child suport in general, the period if if if I got to pay, if I gotta pay fifteen hundred, you gotta pay the half because it's half your kid and all my faults. And I shouldn't be soldly responsible for the money part because you got a job too. So the idea, the idea behind the child support is there's one parent that's going to be the custodial parent

in Texas, that parents has the child. I think, like I think the break up break down on is like percent the time, it's not the noncustodial parent only has the child on the first, third, and fifth weekends. But he's okay, so he's only he's only responsible. He only has the child what a a time, But he's responsible for responsible. Then it's not because in theory, when the with the kid is with mom, she's providing for the mom financially. That's not true. Why do you say that?

Because the money comes out of the man's pocket. The man a paying rent, the man a paying ship. A lot of a lot of that child support payment does go towards But let me be very clear. Let me be very clear, Okay, I don't have a problem with the child support system in in and of itself. I understand the concept, the concept behind it all is to make sure that both parents are contru being financially to the care for that child. I don't have a problem

with that. That may have been the right so on the base level, on the base level, right that on the base level, that is the way that child support is designed, and I don't have a problem with it. It's all the other laws and requirements and stuff that murky up the waters. Not even a law, it's a statue.

It murkey's the murky's the water. So for for instance, so you're saying that some of the child support does go to pay the written all that, But the thing about it is child support, how much you pay as a as a non constodial parent. It's going to be based on your income. It's got what they call guidelines child support, So it's going to be a percentage based on the number of children of your net monthly income.

So you may not be paying fifteen hundred dollars if you're not, if you're if it's dollars, is not and you've got one kid. If that's not your net monthly income, you know, are gonna be paying. You're gonna be paying based on your income. So some people are receiving two hundred dollars, some people are receivings. Some people are receiving thirty dollars. I get that, but but here's but I

got to pay exactly that. I got that. But for the for those cases where the system is clearly flawed and it doesn't it's not working out for the woman, you know, the custodial parents, they should not overstep their boundaries to try to make other others like compensate for the money they didn't collect from. These guys that ain't really making any money, are really making any substantial contributions. Why do you think that that is happening? Because they

want the money. It's all about the money. When you how much money does a kid need to get by? Think about this some some there are some people that collect a hundred thousand dollars in child support every money, you know, fifty thousand in child support every single but that, yeah, but that that doesn't make sense, man, do that that doesn't make sense? And that lets you know that lets you know, look let's go back to Christopher Crump's case.

Christopher Crump, the state said, look, your old party. But okay, okay, we believe you you're not the father. Okay, all right, so you don't have to give her any of that back money. Uh, we still want to what if it's about child, or if it's about the child? What what does what does the state need money? They don't care. That's not about the child. Will they don't give about the child. That's my point. They shouldn't be called child support.

They're not here to They're not here in interests of the father, the mother, or the childer in there for the interests of the state. It should got nothing to do with the kids. It should be called attorney general

support or state of state support. Government support. I mean, if you follow it, if you follow the if you follow the laws, even from the federal federal level on down, it appears as though it is a money thing because they forced you to pay, Like you were just saying, if you don't pay through the state dispersement unit, then it can be categorized as a gift. That makes no sense to me, right, if I am paying money to this household where my child is financial financial contribution for

the care of my child. It's it's financial contribution. It doesn't matter if it's going through the state or if it's going to through the dispersed dispersement unit or to her directly. It's still it's still for the care for my child. So why then does it have to go about the term of our definition of a gift because it wasn't given, it wasn't paid through the dispersingment unit. The only justification that I can come up with that is that they want to force people to pay through

the disbursement unit. Now why do you why why do you want to force people to pay through the dispersement unit. Why because from the federal government down they get the state gets to charge you administration fees for processing those payments. So there's a there's a certain amount that they withhold from everybody's child support. If you are a recipient of TANNIS, if you are a recipient of Medicaid, you actually assign over your rights to the your child support. It's no

longer your you don't even have rights to it. So when you when you make the statement about um, other other child support payers are carrying the load or the brought for other other other other people who are paying less. I think you made a statement that was that was

kind of cant to that. The way where I see that happening is is when in these cases when a mom, uh, you know, in my hypothetical, a mom is receiving TANNEF or medicaid, right, and you've got two moms, right, temporary assistant for temporary assistance for needy families, that's what it's called in Texas, so they actually get money money. So so if you've got two moms that are on TENNIF, right, this mom a her baby daddy is supposed to be paying her two hundred dollars a month in child support.

Mama be her baby daddy is supposed to be paying her twelve hundred dollars in child support. The state is gonna take depending on what states do win. They're taken all of it. They're taken the two hundred and they've taken the twelve hundred and some states well. And this is all sanctioned by the federal government that that the states have um you know, you know, taken on as as a part of their own laws as well. So the states get to decide how much of the child

support that they will pass through to those families. Right. Some states don't pass through any they take the whole two hundreds, they take the whole twelve hundred. Right. Some states passed through fifty dollars. Right, So then how is that equitable? And you're doing this under the under the guise of this is a reimbursement for the for the cost of the benefits that you're receiving. But there should

be a dollar amount that's attached. If I'm getting tan, I we both getting tanned, there should be a dollar amount. I should be able to get a receipt from the government from the state how much you paid me in in for this tannent that I'm receiving, and then let me pay you that. Right, But that how it's arbitrary because no, so now you're taking my two, you're taking the twelve. But if it only costs five, then the one that you took twelve from what that seven at?

You know what I'm saying. So I don't understand a lot. I don't understand how it works. I don't understand how it works that in my in my my mind, question, counsel, what's the best way to go about rectifying, like fixing this. What do we do to fix this? Great question? So that's what me and my and my my colleague, my my new friend Kenya rock mind. Um you entered. She yes, Yes, So she's been. She's been rallying behind this for a very long time. Sheld, we need to put some light

on what she's doing. Absolutely, she she wrote a book called The Child Support Hustle. Um, she's been. Yeah, she's been out here like trying to write, writing bills, making proposals and a very's very active and she's been active for a very long time. I only know not the details. I know in general that because she and I talked about this, that her and I hope I'm getting his right. Her child's father was on child support. She didn't want him to be on child support anymore. She tried to

get him off child support. They wouldn't allow him off child support. I remember she was telling me that she was receiving tannef and she wasn't getting his child support payments begin again because she had to assign her rights to it, so she wasn't getting his payments. Um. She told me that she had quested a statement she wanted to know exactly how much have y'all paid me or

paid and benefits towards to my benefit. And she was never able to receive any type of statements or received to be able to see exactly how much she had received in benefits to see if it reconciled with how much they've taken from her child support. So that's that's how she got motivated in it. And so you introduced us, and so I said, okay, well I'm gonna I'm a legal profession I'm a lawyer, so I know the legal aspects of this. So I wanted to lend my voice

to what she was already doing. And instead of me recreating really the will, I said, okay, well, let's partner it. We both have the same goal, we both have the same mission. Yeah. So so to answer your question, what do we do? We want informed, the informed the public because a lot of this stuff people don't really know, Like the stuff that I'm talking about. The it's called the Work Opportunity and Personal Responsibility Act that was passed by Bill Clinton. Um, I think it was a nineties

six Um, A lot of people don't know. It's not common knowledge. Um. The the aggressive enforcement measures that that were um I guess um past in that act and how we see now it in our in our day to day lives with people's licenses being suspended and all of that kind of stuff. All that's comes from the federal how's suspending one's license. It's all tactics too, Yeah, it's tactics to try to force people to be complicit.

And so so what I do is that what we're trying to do is want to educate the public on the fact that these things are occurring and the fact that there's an issue. Many many men. It's mostly been men in the past that have tried to sound the alarm, but they got slapped down and you know, coined as debbie dads. Nobody, nobody cared. But Kenya and I both have the same story and that we were both recipients of of chills. I used to receive chall support. One

after my divorce, I received child support. I benefited from child support. So I understand how a single mother or a single non couse odo parent could you know, be benefited from the from receiving child support. But as a legal professional, being on the front lines and seeing these people's lives and how they are being um, you know, you know, disenfranchise and harmed by the application of these laws. I see that, and I and I recognize the flaws

in the system. So it's about bringing awareness to the public, creating enough noise to work. This is a conversation that people are having. And then it's now you know, beating down the doors of you know, legislators on the state level as well as the federal level and making these you know, drafting these bills, drafting these proposals for um new legislations and amendment to current legislation, and not being quiet until somebody said, opens the goddamn door and let

you in. You know what I'm saying, Yeah, let's come back to make something. Let's come back to some of the legalities of child support reform, and we'll get back. We talked about a little about Kenya story, touched about on that a little bit. But let's I want to hear about your story. I think, I think I think our audience want to hear your story. How How does how does a girl with uh Instagram model looks become

a lawyer? Like even aspire to be a lawyer? Tell us your story, like how to give us your humble beginnings in the show what's that? What do you say? Instagram model looks? Have you seen those girls on Instagra on Instagram? They so you be Oh goddamn if I got to all, who's going to that too? Too? Where are you from, Cassandra? So I am from Lake Jackson, Texas? You know where that is? Lake Jackson, Texas to dight south from Houston. Yes, I'm a country girl and I've

been in Houston since what two thousand nine? Yeah? So you at what point? First of all, how many signings? It's eight of us and I am the first four. I'm number six. Yeah, I'm number six. Took you that loan to figure out what happened? Well, so my father, my father was married at four children, and then he divorced and married my mother and he had four children. So it's is eight of us total four with my mom and dad. So I'm second with my mom and dad six in the total weight. So how is growing

up in your household? And what did you were you? I guess you were pretty shop in school? Were you always shop in school? Or no? I'm an average student. I was always an average student when I was in law school. My motto was I'm gonna see my way out of here. I wasn't. I wasn't trying to win no awards, to be on nobody list. I just wanted to get out, you know, from you got a degree. Can't nobody what they're gonna do. Challenge me because I gotta see you in torts, you or whatever. I got

my j d um. But no, I knew I'm a peak So I grew up in the preacher's home, um, and I knew I was lucky enough to just know early on what I wanted to do. It's very challenging. It's hard for young young people to try to figure out that one path they want to take for their life. But I knew. Yeah. So I knew in the seventh grade that I wanted to be a lawyer. And I never changed my mind. I never changed my mind about that. At that time, I didn't know I wanted to be

a family lawyer. Lawyer. I just ended up in family law. But I knew I wanted to be a lawyer because I always was. I was. I would always say back then, people get screwed because they don't know their rights. So I liked the advocacy part for part of being a lawyer. That that's what attracted me, and so I just never changed my mind. I ended up in family law because out of undergrad my first job in the law office

was in the family law office. I was doing their billing, and then I just because I was in a family law office, I picked up on family law stuff, and I just stayed in family law. So when I went to law school and graduated past the bar, I'd already been doing the work as a paralegal for other lawyers. So I said, okay, I'll just hang my own shingle and do it for myself. How many times to take you to past the bar? One time at the game. I didn't realize how big of a deal that was.

But I know a lot of people that that's that. It's been a challenge for that. So I'm fortunate enough to be able to that. I was able to kill it the first time. Yeah, perfectly, Yeah, I killed it. And that's your being a law Why it was that I never want to do nothing else. If I was if I wasn't doing law, if there was anything else that I would want to do and I would love doing it would be Instagram mother. Now I would be like singing somewhere. I would have a band and like

just be singing. Can you say, I don't think you don't do that? Why are you saying that? Why? Why are you discourage me from my dreams. I can hold a tune anything, anything, I don't sing for free, go to your favorite I don't you're not give something. This is the moment when I mean, you said, you said if I wasn't, if I wasn't a lawyer, I sing. So I mean, just anything proved to us that you could have made I don't. Yeah, I will you. I don't want I'm not saying that I would have made it.

I'm just saying, this is what I want to. This is what I want, lawyer, I show. But I grew I grew up singing in the church, right. I was the musician at my church. I was the praise and worship leader at my church. And I enjoyed it. I absolutely loved singing. I still sing now, like to myself. But I don't know. So why why why didn't you grow up and get into the family business, UM ministry. Yeah,

that's a great question. UM, To be quite honest with you, if my father hadn't passed Um, I probably would uma passed when my dad passed. Um, I was eighteen when I got married, so he married at Yeah. So when I was twenty when he passed, I just I just turned twenty when he passed. Mm hmmm. Yeah. So I was the last one of his daughters that he walked down now wo yeah, but had he not passed, I would have. Um. The gentleman that I married was a minister. Um,

he your divorce right. And she said the gentleman that I that's respect that that that said something about you to be able to say that, because a lot of gentle a lot of people are better, you know, after they know he's top down on that exit. We at that moment like I've been divorced now for almost ten years, and believe me, we had Oh god, I acted bad at what has acted? Bad man? Man? Bad? Just know I acted bad man when we when we separated, and because when we separate it I put him out and

put him. I put him out of his house, of his house. I put him out, and he left. He left our house and he moved in with this girl that he was working with. And he ain't never left. He'd been he still that right, web for thirteen years. Oh that's a good that's a good run. I give it a good show. Yeah, remember years. But I acted bad, So what does it acted bad mean? I tried to amaze him. I remember, you scratched his carb? I probably did. I remember. The one thing that stands out in my mind.

I don't remember what happened. I burned up all his clothes, like I took all his clothes out of the closet. I did one of those waiting to excel things, put them all in the backyard and burned up. Yeah, but then I remember, I don't know what happened while I was so mad, but I knew he was gonna be in South Houston, South Park, as his people used to live off re wrote, and I was on the north side. And I remember driving all the way over to his mama's house, and I was posted up down the street.

Why was I posted up? Was posted up down the street? It was just me. I was posted up down the street, and I had his mama's his mama house in my eye view, and I saw him pull up with another woman. I don't know, I don't I'm trying to remember why I was even wild and all like that, but I pulled up. It caused the whole scene. I remember his mama coming outside. I caused the whole scene. That would have been dope, though like I was blowing the fact I was looking at it. I was just like I

would have been. That would have been good for the story, though not like like most of the time when when women act like that would dudes because they did some ship before? Did you do some ship? I wasn't mad at him because he was with that girl. I was, if I remember correctly, my anger with him and the times that I acted out was because when he left, he just left. He wasn't paying child support. Lord, he wasn't helping our financially, and that that those were the

things that just made me angry. Did he did you kick him out? Yeah? But your kids are still there, so you want you want to kick him out and making you want to come big, come back exactly what the money at? Because I gotta take care of these kids. And that's why I say, I understand how about the child being a child, because there's a difference between I think that there is nothing wrong with requiring someone to support their children financially. Fine, but you don't have to

go through the goddamn powers that be to do that. Unfortunately, you're you're right, But unfortunately that's sometimes it's the only option because somebody may not. Sometimes that's not sometimes because you may have Sometimes you may have an agreement. Okay, he's gonna we don't need to go to support. I'm gonna give you money. Okay, he agrees, he gonna give you two hundred dollars. Then he's skipping out on the money. He don't he's not paying, but the bills keep coming

every month, and he funny with the money. So now you got you don't have a choice but to go to the people and put him on child support because they're gonna make sure he pay every month. So I get it, ladies, I get it. I totally get it, but I think it's wrong when you got situations where like my guy, he wasn't the father, or I got another client. He worked in all in Gas. He had a child support order based on what he was making at that time, which was good money. He lost his job.

He needed a modification. So when you lose your job, they don't automatically change your child shopart obligation. Not just lose your job. But like I know ball players that their child shop work was based on what they were what they were getting when they were playing ball. They're not playing ball no more. The money is not coming in the same, but they still on the hook for

the same amount they can't afford it. Wouldn't it be easy if they just dropped it down like they made the law, like based on a percentage as opposed to a hard number. That that way. So if it's a percentage, then if I got just like you automatically take money out of my my, my, my, my, my pa, my pay check, you know that money could automatically be calculated when when you see a drop, you only get in. You only get what that number is that I bring in. Period.

So if I if so, if I'm making you know, ten thousand a month, and then you know and you're get that's two thousand, right, So if if that if that ten thousand drops down to five thousand, you know, then we're talking what is that a thousand dollars money? Right? And and that that should automatically I don't have that. They don't have the um they're not compassionate in the state. Well, here's the thing, I absolutely agree with you, and that's

a part of what I'm proposing, the change that I'm proposing. Okay, So there's there's something called the Child Support Incentive Child Support, Child Support Performance and Incentive Act, right, and it pays money, incentive money incentive payments to the states based on their

level of performance in four to five categories. I couldn't think of the fifth one last night, and those categories are the establishment of fraternity collection, I'm sorry, establishment of child support orders, collections of child child support and collections of arrears and something else I can't think of the

fifth one. And so what I've proposing is an amendment to that Act where they would add as a fifth or sixth um measurement modifications, because that's what we're talking about, right, If you have a change in your circumstances, you need that previous order modified. And it should be automatic, right, not automatic, And maybe maybe I don't know if it can be automatic in the sense of they detect that there's a decrease in your pay and they automatically do it.

But it absolutely needs to be easily accessible. He needs to be easily accessible. I should be able to just like my baby mama can just call the Office of Attorney General and be like, yeah, this is the baby daddy and I need child support, and they pick up the ball from there, up I will go. A payer of child support should be able to pick up the phone, call the Office of Attorney and Journal and say look, I lost my job or it's COVID and I've been furloughed,

and that that's all that needs to happen. The Office of Attorney General will pick up the ball to do the modification. Just as they are quick about establishing fraternity, establishing child support, they need to be just and enforcements. They need to be just as quick and automatic about doing modifications because that's what's messing people up. That's what's

causing people. So if you lose your job and you're still on the hook for paying a month and you ain't got that kind of money coming in, now you're in arrears. Now those aggressive collection measures are implemented. You can't leave the country, all this stuff. They're taking your tax returns, all those things, when all of that could be alleviated by just simply making modifications easily, more easily and readily available and provided through the Office of Attorney General.

Currently you pretty much gotta go. Hi, you're a lawyer. If you lost your job, how are you gonna pay for a lawyer to get a modification? You know what I mean? Is there any time that you feel like a client or a potential client may not need your services and they can handle that themselves. In regards to child support, that's a great question. That's a great question the businesswoman and me. The business woman and me wants

to say, no, you always need a lawyer. There's nothing you can do on your own because now you're cutting into my revenuence, right. But but I'll be honest about it. Um. When it comes down to child support, a lot of stuff is done through the Office of Attorney General. And again they don't represent you. They don't represen as mom, you know. And yeah, you can come in there without a lawyer. I don't advise it though. I just don't advise it because you need somebody they're protecting your interests

as a non lawyer. There are some things you're just not gonna know, you know. Like one of my clients, he's got a child support order right now, that's so crazy. They gave they said it's child support. He don't know why they said it the way they did. He just agreed to it. He's like, I don't know what they got those numbers from, Like what you didn't You didn't ask the right questions. You didn't you didn't ask, You just signed off on it. So that's why I think

that it's important for you to go down. Can you go down and do it without the lord? Yeah? But is it a good idea though? Because no one's protecting your interests, no one, no one who knows the right questions to ask are asking those questions. No one that's saying, Okay, no, we don't agree to that, because I know we don't have to agree to that. No one is there doing that, you know what I mean? I think they should have like um court appointed child supporting attorneys in the Training

General's office. You get one, you get one, you get an enforcement issue. If it's an enforcement like if they're saying, oh, you haven't been paying your child support, it's an enforcement case because those are quasi criminal. You can be sent to jail for that and then this criminal's criminal contempt. Um. They will appoint an attorney for you if you cannot,

if you're indigent, if you can't afford one. But if they, if they accept my proposal, and they and they make modifications a part of the thing that's a priority and of the services that they provide, then people won't really need lawyers. They would just like I said before, it'd be that phone call that they would make, the Office of Attorney General, would do everything else, would initiate the case, all of that, because all they would need to do

is is initiate the case. Asked for his financials, asked for the proof that there's been a change in your income. How much you're making now? Okay, now we based child support on what you're making now. So I had to look it up real quickly. I was trying to remember who may who said this quote a man who is his own lawyer as a fool for a client. You know, that's pretty pretty Abraham Lincoln, he is sucking? Is that a Wikipedia? Is that? Wikipedia is everywhere? But Abraham Lincoln

said that. But you know, I just want to make sure. I mean, you know, even a broken clocks right once twice a day, right, so just because the truth, don't care who tell it? Right? So, I mean, but that is the truth in my opinion. I just don't think it's a good idea. There are are some things that family law you can do for yourself, like a divorce case, Like if you and your and your spouse y'all have an agreement, y'all both want to be divorced, you don't

have a bunch of property. Or if y'all just have an agreement, everything is laid out in y'all agreement. You don't need a lawyer for that, and you can go online. They got the forms and stuff you can fill out, you know. Yeah, but but yeah, but if you have a situation where you you're on trial for double murder, did you see that one guy? Yeah, if you see the evidence will show show that I did not kill her, like y'all said I killed her something. He watched too

much Madlock. He did too much TV. They would have gave my lawyer. I find myself at in the middle of the night watching Madlock. Look Madlock, don't sleep on Madlock? Now, okay, they should put at the bottom of the television man. Who would like some of your inspirations growing up in terms of law? Well, that's a great question and interesting answer.

Nobody I didn't like you knew you like Johnny Cochrane though, oh well, yeah, like during the o J I thought I was Johnny Cochrane and I wouldn't even know lawyer like damn during the o J trial, you know that was interesting. But the crazy thing is like I didn't idolize any lawyer's I wasn't like that little girl that was like looking at all the court shows growing up, like I just wanted. I don't know where the idea of being a lawyer came from, not even Judge Judy

or none of that. No, I didn't really Judge. She was something I did Judy. I really didn't get caught up in that Judy entertainment strictly entertainment. All those court shows are just strictly entertainment in my opinion. Yeah, but what not all when I watched Judge Mathis, you know, I watched dude that he come with conviction. He really he lost his my daddy. I've been seeing the stuff on ball Alert when he like going off the cup time about stuff, right, who George Judge Mathis, No, you

ain't talking about JD. You're talking about Somebut you got to figure out the other black judge, the Black Maire Judge Black skin. Yeah, what's his name? Let me google that round. Hey, Siri, who Judge? That's going crazy? I do not understand. That's Judge Brown. Oh it's Joe Brown. What's going on with him? But the thing about it is that like Joe Joe Brown. No, the thing about it is that he's just he's just the type of cat that he's uncompromised, you know. And and see, this

is when we're not used to We're not used to hear. No, I don't clearly I don't have a relationship with him, but you hear what I said to him. But but here, that ain't the point, bro. The point is. I mean, you're a friend of mine. But you know what I'm saying, The truth is the truth. If you're speaking the truth,

you're speaking the truth. The problem. The thing is is that you know, like us, oftentimes, you know, people are not used to people speaking candidly, people that are not bought, people that stand for something, and even when our opinions are unpopular, Uh, it's still our truth. And people are not used to that. They're used to people complying and being politically correct and and and being afraid to speak. Judge Joe Brown is not afraid to speak on what

he believed to be the truth. And whether you agree with him or not, to me, to hear a black man speak like that in such a way that he's not afraid of the establishment, he's not afraid of the dominant society. He don't care about all of these social construction constructions, constructs. He ain't tripping on all of that he's speaking. And so you're not gonna agree with everything he said. Obviously he's not gonna agree. The reason why he sounds like he is to some people, he sounds

unhinged because that's what the truth due to you. The truth would make you sound like a radical. The truth would make you sound like a radical when you're just being a human. Well, you know, when you when you when you give him that little explanation, it just makes me think about Trump because that's exactly what we don't speak the truth. Where you can do that, you can speak the truth, you can speak you can speak the truth and all of that stuff. And that's fine that

Trump speaks the truth. My sister speaks the truth, but I wouldn't vote for as president. I wouldn't want her to be the president. Can you respect him? And his truth. I don't respect nothing about Donald Trump. Donald Trump, Donald Trump is a sucker. The difference between him and Joe Brown is that Joe Brown, Joe Brown loves his people. He loved black people, and Trump don't. Well that's Trump that I don't think people don't. I really don't. I

don't think. I don't think he loved white people because if he did, he wouldn't put them in these types of these compromising positions like that ride at the Yeah, he wouldn't do that. And when he and when he when he basically sicked them on the United States, and when he sicked them on the United States, he was like, yo, man, I'm with you, I'm with you, I'm with And then when they went out there to do it, Trump was

hitting the opposite direction. And then they never called him and while it was happening, he never called him off. The dude is not now we love you that guy. Yeah, that dude, ain't he ain't right? Man? Ain't that something I will never forget? You know? They talked about where were you when Kennedy was shotting Malta Ki? Where were you when they ride when they on the Capital? Man, I'm sitting there like, be right. I cannot be. This

cannot be what I'm saying with my own eyes. Why does why does the Senate refuse to put that that committee in place to really check it out. Man. It's so crazy, man, And it's and it's really happened. They running for their lives, running from these people, but it never really happened. But it's so crazy. It's it's such a slap in the face of those law enforcement officers that were there that we're trying to protect. You know. They want to put that guy that shot that chick.

They want him, they want him a charge. He shot that lady and killed him, the one I was trying to get in the well? What was the how was the room? It's after the fact, man, I was. I was just sitting there and such discussed watching it happened, and I said, this is white privilege. This is white privilege. Where where is the black Black Lives matter matter? Tear gas and all the stuff they was using on the Black lives matter? I know, y'all got some o left.

And then when they came out with new laws that same night. There was some stuff yesterday man that was mind blowing y'all about Um about slave patrol. Yeah, yeah, that's the that's what the slave patrol to pull least, and how how they how it started. Not only that, but like they don't they don't do that too. It's it's only for black people, Like I gotta pull this up to y'all, go ahead and let me find it because it's only for black people, Like the police is

only for black people. Mm hmm. That's what I read, like it's only for the slaves. Well, you ain't got to read that to know that exists. All you gotta do it's just watch how they move and watch how they deal with people, watch how they deal with us versus others. Yeah, if you look at the origin, if you trace it back to its origin, right, you trace it back to his origin, And absolutely I think it is it's aligned with what you're talking about. Um yeah,

I think I think that's the origin of it. So it's it's it's kind of um, it kind of makes sense that what we see today it still has those remnants from the genesis. It's genesis. You know. How do you feel about then that many lawyers get just over all the culture of law, what people feel that lawyers are crooks, and liars, and you know, people as long as you shoot them a dollar, you know, yeah, they're holly for a dollar. Yeah, that we do have that reputation,

don't we. Well, I mean, it is what it is. And too, you know, I heard not to cut you off, but I did hear that the lawyers and then and the judges were in cahoots in general. Yeah, well answer that question first and then come back. Well, it is what it is. I mean, it's a stereotype, right, No, No different than a stereotype that they have for black people, No different than the stereotype that they have for black women, for women in general. So there's a stereotype raps. Right.

Arguably there is a little bit of truth in every stereotype, right, I think, so there's a little you there's a little bit of okay when um, so, I don't have a problem with it is what it is. I just accepted, like, it ain't me, you know, I don't you know, I don't do what I do for the money. The money comes, but it's not what motivates me. It's not what motivates me at all. Mr Crump's case, I work pro bono.

Now I had to stop doing this because I I if someone came to me and they didn't have the resources, and I saw that they really needed help, I would extend myself and I'd be like, Okay, I got you for free ten times out of ten, and I have been screwed. No, lie, ten times out of ten that I have done that, I have been screwed. The person has not appreciated what I've done. It has just not worked out. Yeah. So what I started doing was I said, Okay, I gotta they gotta have some skin in the game.

They gotta be able to pay me something because I need them to be invested in this because this they life my mine. So with Mr Crump, that's basically what I did. He paid me. He paid me some money. You pay me a portion, not not what I would normally request. And then I said, Okay, I got you, and I don't. I didn't get paid for the bulk of his case. I don't. I don't get paid for any of the stuff that I'm doing, um, promoting his case.

I don't. Well, what about taking that portion and then after the case is resolved give it backulous I haven't been a spent about it. I'm going back and get it from Sacks. Listen, listen, I'm just talking, well, what what what I'm what I'm doing that what I'm what I'm doing is like like I'm just looking at the angles here like so I'm listen, I'm about I'm about my paper. You know, I love my people and I love the community, and I do give as a I think that all of us. I think, uh service is

the greatest like gift that you can give to the world. Service. But there has to be a balance, and so you can't just be running around here just doing everything for free, because then you're gonna be asking for somebody. You're gonna be You're gonna become a beggar. Yeah, it's and it's hard because, like I said, for me, I'm not motivated by the money. So like, um, it's hard for me when I'm when I'm having a conversation with somebody and you know, I see what they really really really need

help and they can't afford it. The one guy, Um, I mean I took this case. What what why do you do that you don't believe money? I mean, the money comes, the money comes, I don't have to It's kind of like what you're saying is that money is not your primary No, it's not the focus. It's not the focus. I don't. I don't, that's not that's not the focus. I didn't go to law school for them. I mean the money is a as a perk, it's a perk, But that's not my motivator. You know what

I'm saying. Does that make sense? It's a motivator, but not your primary motivation. Maybe that's because the question is for me if you were not going to get paid at all with a little sick Absolutely, if you do something, if you do something for money, you'll never have none. But if you do it because you love it, you'll never be without it. Who said that, Brad Jordan's Well, let me tell you something. Man. Listen, when I was a cook for Kentucky friend, I was a cook for

a business broke into a Kentucky frog. I think that's probably. First of all, that was not a Kentucky friends. Secondly, that was allegedly allegedly happening on to a Kentucky frien. You don't understand what I said. I said first and five most allegedly start bringing up pass Now it's cool he could bring up pass stuff. I mean you know,

I got to cover it. I mean, you know, in statue of limitations and stuff like that, and I ain't tripping on that, but I guess my my point here is that I uh, I did not love cooking chicken. I cooked it out of necessity to I can so I could get a check. So you you were saying that, you know, if you love what you do, you always have money. I had. I was you never got money. Well the reason that I was with I was with money was because I was a cook. No what, No,

there was nothing else. I was doing something that I did not love, but I was doing what I had to do until I could do what I wanted to do. So right now, I'm you know, I'm sitting here, you know, and and and you know, having a conversation with an attorney and floor shirt you got on looking good, just sitting here having a conversation with an attorney. Cassandra Daniels and and Brad Jorge. You know, this is this is this life is good man. You gotta do is keep

on waking up, keep on waking up. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The money is always a motivator, whether or not. The question is if it's your primary motivator. I agree. I agree with that. Yeah, I agree with that. But there are some cases that money for me, that money is not the motivator, Like the one case w my guy, Oh God, he lost his job and only guess like they was he was getting unemployment. They were taking just

about all of his unemployment. Like he was really struggling financially because most of his money was going to pay out y'all support and he needed a lawyer. The other lady, the mom on the other side, she had to the money to pay a lawyer to litigate it. We went all the way to trialing that on that issue. Nobody else would have did what idea for him. Nobody else would have done that. I worked that case for free. I worked it for free. He when he initially hired me,

he had money. He ran out, and what was I supposed to drop him? Well, how did he appreciated? Now? He is the only one and he knows it. He is the only one of the people that I've extended myself in that way that has actually appreciated it. He said to me, I will work for you. I will work for you to pay off whatever it is that he does. I'll have him come in and you know, do some administrative stuff for me, review my discovery things like that. Even still this case is yeah, his case

is done and he still works for me. Even now he could he could have chunked dudes and been like I'm out. So I respect him. I respect him, but

he's the only one everybody else. And I think that since this UH podcast is is UM on such a big level, on such a big platform, I think that you should tell people how to get in contact with you because I noticed his tons of men out there that's going through the same ship that your clients are going through, you know what I mean, They would love to have somebody that represented them, that understood what was really happening to them most definitely. So yeah, they can

call my office. My number is three four six seven zero three one to three four six seven zero three one to three four and your Instagram, so Instagram is h was right, Willie. My instagram is at the Daniels Law Firm p LC underscores and then you can go to my website that's www dot the Daniels Law Firm dot com. Th and then rocket mind what's her stuff? You know? So her website is UM the child support hustle dot com. Um, I don't want to give out her number because I don't know if that but that's

definitely And then she's also on Instagram. Let just know y'all working together on Yeah, I really want to have this bullcrap that's going on. I really want to have her on. Let me find her, Ina, I need to put her in here too. Yes, I might need to have another sit down to a partner one thing, so absolutely we can bring both of them back. Instagram is the child support hustle, the child support hustle, She's she's

forever posting information stories. UM, definitely follow her. She has been m fighting for this for a very long time. And I'm just lending um my voice, M my my education might know how my abilities UM to partner with her because again, like, ain't no since to me reinventing the will and trying to go off and do my own thing when this sister has been fighting to fight. You know what I'm saying? We other than one as they say, Yeah, I wanted to ask you about your family.

How often do you get family members that come to you trying to get pro boned or action. Um, I've made it very clear to my family that I don't offer free services unless you are my my dad's siblings, like my my aunts and uncles. If they if they come to me, they don't pay. They don't pay anybody else. They gotta pay. Now. I do this for all of my clients, and I end up doing this for a lot of my family that come to me. I end up, like you know, maybe not building them for certain things.

You know, I don't just hear them like I would. I don't just build them like I would normally build. I'll give them a break here and they're on some things and stuff like that. Yeah, I'm gonna tell you though, want to make man he charged us for everything. People don't understand that, man I wrote, I wrote your name down with a pencil, and I'm gonna need like right. People. People don't understand that that's how lawyers works. If they we build by the we build our hourly rates. We

build them. Yeah, I build like a lot of tourneys, building fifteen minute increments. So that means that if I send an email or if I respond to an email and man taking me two minutes, but I'm going to charge you for fifteen minutes because that's how I bu build in fifteen minute increments. So everything that we munch fifteen minutes worth. The law service, what depends on what your good answer good what good question? Good question? Exparence

on what you're hourly ratings, So my hourly rate. Yeah, I won't say, Willy, wait a minute, she got to tell people what the radios don't. I don't need to tell me. It depends on who calls. Really, it's not just our we we love you, ma' I'm just making a joke. Yeah, Well, here's there's what I think about that. Anyway, I say, uh, there are lawyers for everything that you want, and that's different lawyers for different levels and whatever you're

trying to do. So I say, if you want to call a certain lawyer, then you know, once you find out what that rate is, you decide whether you want to do business with that lawyer or not. And if you want to do business with that lawyer, you don't complain about the rate. Here's the thing. But you know what I'm saying is that when I hire you lawyers, I based on the certain I hire lawyers based on the service that I need. And when any time I need a lawyer, it's always serious stuff. So I want

a very good lawyer. Of course, I want the most reasonable rate that I can get when I call these this lawyer, I know what that rate is. So I'm not tripping on it because I know I'm gonna get what i'm paying for. So as long as I'm getting what I'm paying for, and he and he's getting what I'm and he's getting what I'm paying for, you know what I'm saying. I mean, he giving what I'm paying for. I ain't got no problem with a lawyer. I know a lawyer guys and and and and this is it's

not even a joke. I know he starts off at fifteen thousand. I don't give a dam. It's a traffic to Yeah, how much is it gonna be? Yeah, So that's a great point that, well, you know, I know you gotta be talking about Ken you know. Yeah, I said, uh, but that's as you get what you pay for, know that. So if you want to go get a lawyer that's cheap or want to give you a payment plan and

all that, you're gonna get that. If you want a lawyer that's good at what they do, that's not gonna you know, be you know, bad customer service, not give you the run around, not not calling you back, all that kind of stuff. Then you're gonna have to pay for that. So when you when you call and you do that consultation and you get the rundown of how much this person's our only radius, how much the retainer's gonna be, you got to make that assessment or as

to whether or not you can afford it. If you sign that contract and you hire that attorney, you have just waived your right to complain about how much it is costing you because you just agreed to pay my fees. We do not. And I'm saying this because I've had some conversations with my with my colleagues, my girlfriends, who are also lawyers, and we get tired of having to have these conversations with our clients about pain. You want good service. I'm doing my part by providing good service.

Now you do your part by pain, don't bother? Right, Well, that's how, that's how, that's how. You know you talk to these criminal lawyers too. You're like, look, I'm gonna do my part again. You this money, you keep the cuffs off, you know, like I'm gonna do. As long as I do my part, you do your part, everything's

gonna begin. It's an exchange. It's it's an exchange. And if you can't afford that lawyer, go find go down to wherever the other lawyers you get anything up under you know uh what they call him uh in the Martindale Hubble, the five pre eminent whatever you're you're, you gotta deal with that because you took because you took a chance putting yourself in that position. I'm going to say, you can't shape up. Uh Latitia Kings, I won't get a lawyer. And let me say this. Let me say

this as well. Okay, all right, and I'm speaking for my my female colleagues and criminal No, I'm gonna say this. You know, people, a lot of times it seems, and I hate, I hate to accept this as being the truth, but it seems a lot of times that people are more willing to drop a bag on male attorneys that there seems to be the especially especially when you're talking about your female and your black female, there seems to be this level of like lack of confidence that comes

because it's a female and it's a black female. You gotta know who I think in court, Willie, you have to know, Like, if you got a white judge that's a female, then you got to play the game accordingly. If you got a black judge that's a male, then you gotta play the game accordingly. You don't want to go into a courtroom with a Hispanic judge and a

cowboy hat win. Uh, white guy. It is a game because if you watch the even just on a on a rudimentary level, just watching these ary if you just watched the head if you just watch these judge shows, you'll see if the judge is white, the bailiff is is black, if if the judges the hispanic, those things matter. Those things matter. But if you like a sorry, but if you got a white judge, you need a white lawyer you got a black judge. No, I don't think it's I don't think it's that you got to know

the person. You got to know the proclivities of that particular Yeah, like you don't understand he know, you know, you know, just us. I had to bring out my spell words because he got the Bible with match about this. This is how this is how I hire your lawyers, Like I hire your lawyers, I hire your lawyers, especially if I got a serious situation, like some type of criminal case or something. I hire your lawyers based on not who they know, but who know them in the

inside of the courtroom. It's like it's like somebody saying, Man, I know scar Face. Okay, yeah, you know scar Face, but don't mean scar face. No you because if scar Face don't you know you, you can't get nothing done. You see, So what does that mean? What you mean what you say about knowing him, he can't get your done? What does that mean that I said, if you if you don't know that person exactly, they can't get nothing done. So so my my point is is that like I've

heard lawyers say yeah, oh that's the judge. Oh yeah I know ife, and and somebody who ain't, who ain't up on the on their game, might hear that and be like, hey, that's comfy. I like that. You know he know the j Yeah, yeah, he know the proc prosecute. Yeah, but do they know you See, that's how you get things done, because all of this stuff really bars down. We are we're not computers, were human beings, So all this stuff bars down to relationships. That's all it really

is relationships, access and options. No, No, don't discredit. Don't discredit the skill of and the ability and know how the attorney. No, I'm not. I'm not discredited in that. But I can tell you it's the old saying, it ain't what you know, it's who you know, and you can have That's why. That's why, that's why sometimes, but that's that's why a lot of times you can have a job I law you that can be sharp and

know that and know that stuff. If you walk in a certain kind of a certain courtroom, some judges are intent on like shutting you down. I don't care how prosecutors killed you are. Some lawyers are, yeah, because they're working. Who's with the prosecutors. But some lawers, some judges are intent on shutting you down. I don't care how good you are. They'll make you go out and and and file some type of charge against them and fill again file with the bar to get them this bar or something.

Because some of them they act like the curt room is their house. Like what I say goes. It don't matter what the laws goes. I am the law that lady was has ain't goddamn me in court that I went to like she was like making up her own ship. I was like, that ain't in the books. Some of some of them have that type of mentality, old Republican mean asked, wrinkle face as judges got that mentality. Yes, some old democratic mean ass sprinkle face mother's got that

mentality too. And some of them got smooth faces and they got that mentality that the deal is that man, that we're just part of. We're we're a very wicked system. Has stewardship over us. Stewardship is in the right word to use. It's it's the cold game, bro, It's the cold game. But we appreciate you coming on the show and you know, giving us that information, insight, getting to

learn a little bit more about you. Didn't answer my question, are the lawyers and the judges in cos I would say no. I mean, look, some people would say that you should. Thanks a lot, ladies and gentlemen appreciate you joining us on another ghetto boys reloaded with with with with Uncle Faith Marvin, Mr Willie d And we had a hell of a time with miss Casey. And she killed us. She killed it, she killed it. She she kneeled that she hit the hammer I've been doing you

for a long answer. That's a that's other ship, that's like, that's a professional name. We were just were just homeboys and homes I remember when you was taking that damn bartest and fucking uh Golden Corral. He was like, I'm study, I'm studying for the bar. I'm like, care, I studied. I was studying several different crocker barrel. Cracker barrel is a cracker barrel. Crocker crocker barrel, cracker barrel. That's what I was trying to figure out. How we met, That's

how we met. You're using that with your brother? All right, FA, we can we'll continue. We're gone. We'll continue discussion later. All right, in a minute, no more talk, Okay, thank you all for having me. This episode was produced by Aching and brought to you by The Black Effect Podcast Network and Heart Radio.