Mid-Week Mom Chat: Wynne Elder

don't know. Was it like four years ago. I was having breakdown and I was like, I don't know what to do with my life, and You're like, oh my god, you have got to start a podcast because you know all these people and podcasts are about to be the next big thing and blow up, and you've got to start one. And I literally started one like the next day. You were like, what is a podcast? I don't even

know exactly. I love it. We were like, I remember we were driving I think home from West Texas and we were like stopped to get like, I remember where we were when you and I were having the conversation on the phone. I think you were asking me about blogging and I was like, you really should do a podcast instead. That's exactly. I was talking to my sister Catherine, and I was like I always call her when I'm having a breakdown and she's like, you need to call Win.

She's the most famous blogger that we know, and she'll tell you how to do it. Hilarious. Okay, So I kind of want to give a backstory about you. We grew up together. I've known you my entire life, and you have just blossomed into this beautiful mother woman advocate um and your story of becoming a mother. I just got fake glashes put on for the first time since quarantine, So I hope I don't cry, but your your story of becoming a mother is one of the most beautiful

stories that already fe like I'm gonna cry. Talk to me about your journey because I just think it is so it's so special and unique, and I mean, I just think it's such a cool story. Well, it's so funny. I was working on my Instagram bio recent and I was telling my friend. I was like, you know, the thing that people message me about the most is fertility or adoption or i VA and like, you know, my story to becoming a mother is really unique and it's

not normal. It's not typical, and so I mean it's so true, Like I feel like this is just the crazy story that God has written in our life over the past, what you're in since like twenty two thousand and nine. Um. I mean I always wanted to be a mom, but we Stephen and I got married young, and we wanted to wait five to seven years, and then a couple of years into it, I was like, I really, like literally almost overnight, I had the desire

to become a mom. And I just felt like it was totally from God, Like why do I Why did I just change my mind overnight? And you know when you all of a sudden want something new, you see it everywhere, like you want to buy a new black car, and then you see black cars, You're like, everybody has a black car and I don't. It was sort of

like that, and um, I was so excited. I remember I had like a little lunch group with a couple of friends, remember telling them a lunch that week and just thinking like because God game desire, like it's just gonna happen. And backstory, my mom struggled to get pregnant with me for like four or five years. UM, and I guess I always sort of maybe thought that that would be my story, but I had no idea. So we started trying, and that first year of infertility and

trying was like the hardest fear of my life. Um, I didn't tell a ton of people that we were trying to get pregnant, Like I didn't tell my mom or my sisters. I don't think even, And so it was really lonely and isolating. And we lived in a small town where there was really nothing to do, so everybody was having babies. I remember I was in a Bunco group and prom Bunco no, but I want to

It's like that dice game. Anyway, the Bunco group was over one night and there a group of us were staying staying afterwards, and we made a list all the people we knew that were pregnant that we were friends with in our town, and it was like twenty five people. And so it just was like it was so hard to walk through month after month after month of wanted to get pregnant and its not happening and not knowing

why and watching every Like I remember leaving. I was at like a triple baby shower dinner one night for three friends and I was just all happy and great at the shower and then I left and just like ugly cried, like had to pull over at a park and like cry by myself. I just was so lonely and sad and devastated it why this thing that can so easily happen for so many people was not happening for us. And when I relate to on that because Michael and I struggled for a year and had two miscarriages.

And it's the like you said, when the switch flips and you want to become a mother more than anything in the world. You see it everywhere and all these people start complaining about all their pregnancy she's they're having and they can't handle all this stuff, and it's and you're like die on the inside because you're like, do you know how much I want to feel nauseous right now?

Like even though sex like you and once you actually do get blessed to be pregnant, like you do, realize pregnancy issues are for real and like they can knock you down to your knees. But it's just like, oh my god, it is so devastating, And you said it perfectly isolating and lonely, and you are like why not me? Like what have I why not met? Why can I not pregnant. Yeah, it feels like I did something wrong, which is not true, I mean, but it just it

can feel that way. So we tried for a year, and most of our doctors like wouldn't even talk to you about infertility or reasons or climate or anything until you've been trying for a year. So I was working for this nonprofit to put on summer camp free summer camps for at risk youth, and it was like an all consuming job when we were like out at this camp for a couple of weeks in the summer. So I sort of like put trying to get pregnant on the show for the summer, Like I just can't even

think about it, deal with it. I had an employment with my doctor. Like the week after camp was over, and the last day of camp, this girl named Katie, she was she was a Kappa and Baylor at the time. She was a senior and her mom was my mentor at the time, and I remember we were sitting just me and her, and she was like, Okay, when shoot it to me straight, like, you're twenty five, you've been married for a couple of years, why don't you have

kids yet, Which sounds ridiculous. But like in the culture in Texas, in the culture we live in, like everyone was getting pregnant, and normally I would have just like made up some you know, I've been like, oh, we we don't, We're fine. But for some reason I felt compelled to really open up and tell her. And she looked at me and she was like, have ever considered adoption?

And I really had never had. I mean, I don't know if you could say the same thing, but like, we didn't grow up with like a ton of adoptive people around us. We didn't. I mean, there were people who were adopted, but we didn't know that they were adopted because they looked like their parents. Uh. It wasn't a part of how we grew up in the people that we spent time around. And so I was like nope, and she just looked me straight in me, I was like, well, I think you should print it. I was like, pray

about it. I was like, okay, okay, fine, I'll pray about it. And I did, and like within a week, I just knew in my heart that we were supposed to adopt. I can't explain it. And it was the same as the privacyAt So then we went to Cabo right after with my parents and my doctor. Something happened and he had to push back my appointment. So just the timing of it all was so crazy, but it was just like the pregnancy thing, all of a sudden.

Adoption was everywhere. Like I went to in a bachelrette party and the bride's future sister in law was like, I always wanted to adopt and was telling me all about it. And we went to one of Stephen's best friend's weddings and Stephen was in the wedding and at

the rehearsal, I'll never forget. It was a camp Lucy outside of Austin, and they were doing the rehearsal and there was a little blonde girl about six or seven, and a little boy that was dark skin and I've never been in Africa, but I just knew that he didn't look he looked like he was maybe from Africa, I don't know why. And I'm talking to this little girl, her name is Ella. I'm like, Ella, who is that Bennett? Is that your brother? Like trying to figure out who

belonged to who? And she goes, yeah, yeah, that's my brother, and like that was it. She didn't say he's adopted, he's from Africa. She was like, yeah, he's my brother, and I was like, dang. And I remember other people at the wedding had ties to adoption and orphanages over it just was crazy. It was like, what what is happening here? Um? There? It was everywhere, and it had been nowhere, and it was just like, Okay, I get

the picture. And there have been a few times in my life where God has spoken so loudly and I just feel like He's given me the gift of faith to be like all right, Like when we moved to the town we live in now. I knew it for a year before Steven knew, and I was like, we're supposed to move there. We're just like there's several we when we live. We lived in Midland and we moved to brian College Station in Texas about five years ago. That's another crazy God story. Yeah, it's great, well, it's

it's home now. But it was just one of those things. But Stephen was not on board. I don't know if you remember this. He why not? What made you want to move to Briant College Station? Oh? You want to talk about that story? That's a whole different story. I want to talk about all the stories. I don't know we can what story you gonna talk about first? We can keep going with the other one. Then get let's get on with the adoption story, because I'll get off track.

So he even did not want to adopt because he just kept saying, I want to have our own kids. Yeah. Um, and we've been trying, you know, to have biological kids and to get pregnant. So he just was so set on that. And the more I started to know and learn about adoption is like we were all adopted, like Christ adopted us into his family, and so sort of this picture of like this cross like we were adopted, and so out of that overflow of love we adopt.

Like you don't just adopt because you can have kids. You don't just adopt, like people adopt for all different reasons. But it's because we've been given so much. It's not like, oh, we rescue these poor kids. Like when people say that to me, I'm like, no, this is not what that was. So I was frustrated knowing that if if he knew what I knew about adoption, there's no way he would

say now. But it just wasn't his time. Um, it took not only really three months, but you know, like when you really want something, three months is like a long time. Well, I mean, and you do want him to come on board because it is a whole human life that you both are agreeing to take on, you know. Yeah, it's a big, huge deal. Yeah, clearly I wasn't gonna

do it without wanting to do it. Um, but you know, I used to be a photographer and I followed this girl, Esther Havens, and I you know know she is, she's like a humanitarian photographer. I saw she was speaking at this conference in Austin, and we were already gonna be in Austin for my niece's first birthday, and I was like, oh,

I'm gonna go to this conference. You here Esther. Well, it was an adoption conference and there were all these people from our town that we're going that I didn't I like, was connected to through that job at the camp. And so it ended up going to this conference. Stephen did not want to go, So the first night he dropped me off and actually we had dinner with Katherine and Willie that night to celebrate. You're yeah, I think

we were celebrating Katherine's thirtieth birthday. We went to Matt's and we were having Margarita's and like having a great time. And Catherine was one of the friends that I had entrusted with what we were going there, so she knew all about it. Was like, tell me all about the conference, like, tell me everything, and I was like, but stop by we literally, man, Stephen got in the biggest fight of our whole marriage that night and um, like, why are

you not gonna be able about this? Yeah, he was like, We're not doing this. I'm not going like, this is not what we're doing. Like he just was so mad and um he said that he went like we both sort of on our own, were like Chris James that says to basically care for the widow and the orphan. And he was like, I'll go with you today. Fine,

Like I'll just go, I'll just check it out. And just the coolest thing, Um got like really used that conference to speak to him and basically the Holy Spirit allowed him to feel what an orphan feels like, their loneliness and their hurt. Um. He said he felt it for a second in worship, but he was like, we have to do this, like we can't not do it, and that's like what I just was praying for and knew, like if he knew the heart of this, he would

absolutely want to do it. So we decided that day that we were going to adopt, and we decided pretty soon, I think that we were going to adopt from Africa. And again I don't know why. We had never been our mutual really good friend we grew up with always had a heart for Africa, and I was like, I'm not like that. I'm not like this big Africa person. Like I just thought that Africa and adoption or international adoption was for like super special Christians, which is so

not true, Like it is not true at all. So it's just crazy two years later, I mean, there's like a whole thing, but is it a long process? And how did you know that these were your kids? Asher and Camp, Like how did you know? Like how do you get your kids? Yeah, So we started working with At that conference, they had like a ministry fair and so they had a bunch of different adoption agencies there and we just started talking to people and found our

adoption agency. We actually ended up switching agencies in the middle of the process. But you yeah, you go through a rigorous process of like if every person had to like go through this process to have a child, there would probably be no kids in foster care. I mean it's just like it's so intense, like like stacks of paperwork and home studies and just so much stuff. Um. So we were actually matched with a little boy, and

we told everybody we had his picture. We named him Camp, um all this stuff because you've always loved camps, like summer. I always wanted to run my own summer camp. And it was crazy that God spoke adoption to us at a camp that I was working for, and so it just sort of the symbolism of he might not have an actual camp for us, but he has a sign nive camp. So I love that. Yeah. So we were matched with this little boy and then, um, crazy story.

His biological grandmother didn't know that he existed, and she fought found out and she fought for him, which is awesome, Like that's what you want, is like reunification of families. And so we lost. They called a referral. We lost, so we weren't we weren't going to adopt him anymore. And in the middle of the whole process. We had said, hey, we're actually approved to adopt two kids. It was never

our intention. We always wanted one little boy. But could we is up the all school for us and still adopt siblings and before or not siblings, but a boy and a girl. And they were like no. But then when we lost a referral, they were like, we're going to see what we can do. So they gave us

Camp and Asher referrals we had. They were three, they're three weeks apart in age, and we had twenty four hours to say yes or no to it's to Camp and Asher, just to Asher, to Camp and Asher, which we were always going to adopt a boy, but I thought Camp was taken away. Yeah, well we still named Camp Camp. It was just a different, different child. Oh so the original original went back with his grandmother. So

then okay, sorry, not a new anything. Yes, then they match us with these two kids who were not biologically related, so they don't have the same moms or dads or anything. They've just been together since they were a month old in this orphanage, which is very rare to get kids they're not related, they're that young. I just think it was a total God thing, and so of course we were going to say yes to camp because that's what we've been waiting for. But like basically going from zero

to two kids and having twins basically was like pretty terrifying. Wow. And you probably just have so much faith involved because literally, like even your first your first pair that you're matched with then being taken away and now you have another sen It's like you just have to trust that God is bringing you the kids that are meant for you in the situation that He's presenting because you can't control any of this. You can't you don't know how any

of it's gonna play out. Yeah, you know, like did you just have to have so much faith in this whole process. So we had I had recently been on my first like international mission trip to El Salvador with our church and we had I remember one day we were doing like home visits and we had walked for like an hour out in the middle of nowhere to this village and they were telling us a story about this little kid in their village who had fallen into

the river and gotten a really bad air infection. There was no doctor, there was no medicine, there was no money, for any of that. They just had to pray and believe that God was going to heal this little kid. And I remember coming home and being have access to everything, how like asking God, like, how can I have faith to trust you when I literally have everything at my fingertips? I don't don't have to stay up all my praying that You're gonna heal my kid from an air infection.

Like we could do things. And so it was about that time that we got camp in Ash like, Okay, I definitely cannot do this on my own. I I it takes faith and trust for sure. And so that that definitely felt like the answer. So then what happened? So you get camp and Asher, Now you have two kids and how so I actually lived in Ethiopia for three months, um and they were not in my possession yet. They were saying it like a foster home. It was basically like a home with all kids were being adopted

in a bunch of nannies and nurses. And so we brought them home in October of twenty twelve. Oh my gosh, I'm like totally lives yewelve. They were seven and eight months when they came home. So what was that like, what was it like living in Ethiopia? And then what was it like bringing him home and adjusting to life now here you go from nothing to twins. Oh my gosh. So we had been on a couple of mission trips to Ethiopia and fall in love with this one area

in Addis Ababa, the capitol it was. It's called Cora. It's in the city trash to area, and it sounds weird, but like I we fall in love with. We fell in love with that place. We have like teenagers there that call us mom and Dad that we've developed a relationship with over so many years, kids that we still sponsored to go to school there. And so I lived with the family who ran the ministry and we spent money through Friday in the trashta doing ministry and camps

and all sorts of stuff. And then on the weekends, I mean it was sort of like we went to internet cafe and got our nails done and went to the movies and just went to church, like had a sort of a normal life on the weekend. But I loved it. It It was such a cool experience, like one else. Am I gonna live in another country by myself? Yeah? But they came home that I wrote a blogmost about this the trip home. So we ended up I end up having to come back to Texas for a couple

of weeks before we went back to get them. And so it was me and Steven. We literally went to Ethiopia for the weekend and we're like wearing they're little, so we're like wearing them in the carriers, Caroline. No one told me to bring baby food, like all I had was formula. No one was like, oh, babies are like eating you know, baby food out of jars or like pouches, no food. So on the plane ride home, they will both a they both had double ear infections

and we had no idea. So that is terrible and miserable, especially flying that obviously never been on an airplane before. Um, Steven and I didn't I get to sit together because we sat like in the front where they have like a little bassinet. So not joking you, I've sat in the middle in between a blind man and a nine month pregnant lady, Oh my goodness is and screaming seven month old. I remember just like standing up in the by the bathroom like bawling like I'm not a good mother.

I don't know what to do. This is everyone was staring at me like this is terrible. And then we got food sickness on the way home. No, yeah, just we were We traveled for thirty seven hours to get home by ourselves with two little babies, and we're like delusional. I mean, you're just you're exilt. We didn't sleep, we hardly. We got that you have two humans now that you're responsible for for the rest of your life. That's an

ol feeling. So the thing with adoption is like bonding, an attachment, and nobody is really supposed to help you for the first couple of months because you need to establish that you or their caretaker. So like nobody fed them, change your diaper, change their clothes, held them. Really My parents came and the plan was for my mom to stay at a hotel and just come over and help, but we were so sick. It was right on the heels of Superstorm Sandy, and so there was like crazy weather.

I literally don't remember the first two days home, like I just was. It was such a blur yah And really so much of their like little childhood years I know through pictures and videos because just having two kids at one time is and that we were going to physical therapy, speech therapy, like just you know, they were

developmentally delayed. And now now we know camps on the autism spectrum and there's just there were so many things that we were navigating alone and we had so much support, but nobody could like actually come in and help us for a while. So it was how what did you learn in that season of why? Oh my gosh, I

feel like God totally grew my faith. I have a sign just like this in my other room that says and if not, he is still good because I just feel like through my whole journey through fertility and adoption, it's like having to choose to believe that his plans for me are good and that I'm like, he doesn't promise us anything, like we're not promised to have kids, we're not promised to have a successful life, but he promises that he'll be with us. I learned so much

about community. I learned so much about asking people for what you need and not being shy about it. Like when we got the call to go pick up Camp and Nasher and Ethiopia, we had like twenty four hours, we had like thirty six hours to get to Ethiopia. So we basically found out and we had to leave the next morning, and I was leaving to be gone

for god knows how long. I remember like sending an S O S text out to our community in Midland and being like help, and I wish I'd had a picture or a video, but there are probably thirty people and at home in our home that night, like helping me Hanks stuff in the walls and pack and I just sat there, like what do I do? So, I mean, it's hard to ask for help, it's hard to know what you mean. And I just feel like my whole journey to be a mom has helped me be able

to do that. And I love what you said community, Like I feel like community is everything and being in a community where you can be honest and speak your truth and I have learned in my adult life. Yes, I'm not going to share. I share a lot with everyone because that's just my personality and that's your personality too, because I feel like it's helpful, Like I'm happy to talk about stuff I'm going through because I'm happy. I'm fine with sharing all that, but some I do think

not everyone wants to share everything all the time. And that's totally great too, But I think it is so important to have friends that you friends or family or someone you can just dump and not in a way that you're trying to be this negative nancy, just like let me just dump all my ship on you, but like you have to be able to dump all of your stuff out on someone who's gonna give you good advice and help you and help you sort through it, get back on track, bring God into it, find the blessings,

and you know, just like you have to have that. I feel like, don't people that are safe and I'm trying to judge you and you can be honest and it's okay if your life isn't pretty all the time, because life isn't pretty all the time. Million percent. Yeah. And I think like saying saying things out loud that we're struggling with her that are that's hard and it really helps those things lose their power over us, you

know what I mean? Yes, yes, yes, I'm struggling with anxiety in a situation and all of a sudden, saying it, I'm not like it's out in the light and I'm I'm not with it in the dark. By myself anymore because I've spoken it and I told somebody that is so true. So okay, so now you have two kids at home. Yeah, so we got home and we know the story is not even halfway over yet. I know, about six months into the kids being home, we started talking about fertility stuff again and we ended up thinking

ready to do that again? You have two kids. I mean you are super mom. Oh my god, I don't know what I was thinking. Um, but we had a doctor in Austin and super context five. It was a five hour drive from where we lived, and um, so we started going to this doctor and doing oh gosh, all the things I don't even know, like multiple surgeries and CLOMD and I U Y and um we actually got pregnant once on an I U I. And you wanted to explain what a ay ways, yeah, give us

a little synopsis. In our uterine nation, it's basically like taking my eggs and steven sperm and like shooting it up me. So it's different than in betro I'll talk about next, but you can do it like yeah, it's not like you don't have to do all the shots and stuff before, right like you do. I think we did some, but it's not Yeah, it's not. We did a couple of use. I feel like it's not nearly as um taxing. I mean it's taxing, but not nearly taxing as Indie row. Yeah. So we actually got pregnant

on one. I was supposed to go in for blood work on a Saturday to find out if it were or not. And I did and they never called me to tell me the results, and I was just dying. And we were actually at the lake with our best friends from Midland who had walked through all of the stuff with us, and so I snuck out. I'm even tell Stephen. I snuck out and went to town and went to the gas station and bought a pregnancy test and went in the bathroom and took the pregnancy test

and it was positive. Like I literally had like a baby bottle top that I like stuck the thing and and I remember I went to the grocery store and got she in pain and sparkling grape juice and we told them all that. I drove to Waco and told my parents and we told Stevens like we were so excited, and they called me on Sunday. They were like you're pregnant, but your numbers are not looking great, and so I kept having to go back for blood work and it went down and down and down, and so we lost

that pregnancy. And I had somebody stating feeling like I know that, I know that, I know that, feeling like how did that make you feel? Like? What did how did you walk through that? What was really sad? Somebody close to us um said pretty immediately, oh, I bet you had a chemical pregnancy. I had that with right the month before I had so and so it was fine.

So I think I didn't give myself permission to grieve for a while, to think like, this was a miscarriage and this is devastating and the loss of like what could have been when we've been trying for so long, Like it just was. It was so heartbreaking, and then it just felt like that whole I'm alone and why is this happening for everybody else and not me? And I think a couple of my friends were pregnant at that same time too, so it's just a reminder of like, Okay,

their pregnancy succeeded and mine didn't. And it was really sad. But I wasn't able to really grieve it until oh gosh, I wish I need the timeline like six or eight months later, um, right before we started IVY, right before we moved on to IVF. UM. Now I'm a seven on the Instagram, so I'm like, go, go, go do all the things. I literally, just for context, right before we did IBF, I go to Atlanta, Georgia for this adopted Mom's retreat. I leave from Atlanta the day after

the retreat to lead a blogger trip to Uganda. I am there for how long a week, ten days, I don't know. Come back from Uganda, go immediately to speak at a conference. Where are the kids with you or with Stephen? When you go, the kids are with Steven. It was like the first time I had left them

since we brought them home. So I came and I went straight to speak at this conference, this like women's conference, and I was leading a small group and the last day they ended up leading me because I was like a hot mess, like it just somebody said something, Oh, it's my mentor, one of my mentors, Casey from Taylor. She had had several miscarriages, and she said something. I wish I remembered the quote right now, but about like basically it gave me permission to really grief and to

like call it what it was. And I think in that moment, I just I finally was able to like really break down and feel it. And I'm such a huge believer And you can't like stay in that sadness and that darkness. But we have to go there too, then, like get custed to get out of it. You have to you have to give it acknowledgement. You can't. You can't deny it. You have to like let it be what it is. How did you after this is what you are just so capable of so much at one time?

How did you even think to start trying for a baby when you had two kids? Like I was so I am just coming out of the woods of sunny, But I guess she's eight months now, And so your camp and Asher were eight eight months when you got him, were a little more capable. So now by the time you're trying, they're a little bit more like sturdy. And by the time you're trying for kids, were they like one or like, yeah, they were over once, Okay, so you're like, okay, they're like little humans. I had one

of them for so long. And you know, I have a lot of adopted mama friends who don't have any biological kids and they don't have a desire to anymore. But I always still had that desire. Yeah, And I was tempting to feel shame over that for a while, but then I was like, no, like, this is a desire at my heart and I'm not going to give up on pursuing it. So I don't think you should feel shame. I just didn't know how you were going to handle all these kids at one time. I don't know.

I think probably I was. Probably some of it was fear, like I'm getting older and I want to like do this while I can. But we did. We went through this whole ib F with me and the kids. The kids lived with my parents and Waco for like eight weeks or something while I drove to Austin basically every other day for blood work, and that was probably a really sweet time that they got to bond with their grandparents. It was really sweet, it was, and I could do that.

I was running my own photography business at the time. They weren't in school, so I was like, we could just do that. Um, But the we did. We transferred and embryo on Easter Sunday, my thirtieth birthday, and I'm like, this is like the perfect time for God to show off, what you know, the start of a new decade, and it's Eastern. It's like Eastern my favorite holiday and all these things. And it didn't work. And I was devastated, just like devastated. I can't do this anymore. I don't

want to do it. I can't. I don't have the energy or stamina to keep to keep going for this. For two years we did nothing, and in the middle of that, we moved from where we were to where we are, So that's another cool God's free Um. We had been in Midland, Verst seven almost seven years, and about the six year mark, we felt like our time was coming to an end because we moved there for Steven's job in the oil and gas industry after we had spent a year and a half with Catherine and

Willie and our whole crew in Austin. And I hated Midland when we first moved there, um, but grew to love it so much. Just built the sweetest community there. We just felt like our time there was done and we didn't know what we're gonna do. We were gonna just like pick a city on a map. We wanted to feel like called somewhere. And I was with my sister Rachel for her birthday in um Dallas and this

guy was like church. We had met this guy at We met this guy at a sandwich shop and wake up at Hooper Thought when we had been there one time. We started talking to him. His oldest was adopted. He was asking us all about camp and Nasher and um. He told us he was a password to villa. Well, then like six months later, I'm at the village and this guy's preaching and I knew he was like a

youth pastor, so like, why is he preaching? It was church planner Sunday and he was talking about going back to his hometown of Brian, Texas too, that God had called him to declare and demonstrate what God had done for him. And I that day, just like adoption, I was like, we're supposed to move to Brian to be a part of that guy's church plan. Really that day, Yes, I like Texas his church with him? Yeah, yeah, is it awesome. Yeah, We've been through a whole lot of

but it's it's taught us so much. But it's just like a year exactly exactly a year later, God spoke about us moving here to Stephen and within four months good soldier house and moved and we're here. So God speaks to you. What is I always love to know how God speaks to people, Like when what is God doing when he speaks to you? How do you know He's speaking to you? What does it feel like? Is it audible? Is it just a feeling in busy like show you signs like what is God speaking to you?

So not audible? Um, it's just like a feeling I have. And I like with the adoption thing, I don't know. I was I was reading this book which sort of made me think about it and that i'd sell these people. I feel like He uses people, he uses scripture, he uses experiences. Before that day at the church, I had been like watching a video of people who were like living with big, bold faith and that had really encouraged me. So it feels like there's always like things leading up

to this thing. But I can only say I can only say that that has happened a couple of times in my life. But when it has, it's been like super profound and I always want to just believe, like okay, God, Like this makes no sense. I don't know why we're going to move to Brian College station. We don't work for this church, we don't have jobs there, we don't really have any friends there. I mean, Stephen went to

college here, but that was so long ago. The guy you met in a sandwich shop, Yeah, we met him in a sandwich shop, so like, who freaking knows why he was driving we were He was just passing through town, like he wasn't even he was going somewhere else. They just stopped for lunch. So this like something about his energy resonated. So what was the experienced moving to Brian What has that been like? Um? It was awesome at first.

We got plugged into this church and I got plugged into like a really strong group of women who were all leading in their own capacity, just like badass Jesus loving, really cool, fun women. We met every week for a while. We hadn't wine and stay until one in the morning on a Monday night, like talking and praying in life

and all this stuff. And I loved it. And then ship hit the fan and like I don't know, somebody moved and there was a breach in trust here and there was a breakup relations not not a marriage relationship, but like a friend just hard stuff that we walked

through and I've never walked through. This is also a very transient town, like people are coming and going a lot because so I've never yeah, but I mean adults, like even people our age, Um, I've never lost and one since there are some that I've like genuinely lost her friendship for hard reasons, and a lot of them it's because they've moved. But I've never lost so many friends as they have living here in the past five years. But our church has it's a smaller church, and it's

just it teaches me so much about grace. Like it's like not like an all prim and proper you have to show up and dressed up and like put on the front. It's like come as you are. We're like call ourselves like a ghetto. Sure, Like it's just full of a bunch of imperfect people that are trying to love each other and love God. And it's just we're just like a hot mess most of the time. But it's awesome. That's great because then you can just be

real because life is a hot mess. And I think if we learned a thing in it's that we don't have control or anything. Like the world is I mean, what in the world is going on in the world right now? It's the world is a hot mess, and like everybody is like just being raw and real because we're all just like being broken down to this bare level. And it's like, I ain't trying to be perfect. I can't be perfect, Like I don't want to be perfect.

I don't want that responsibility to be perfect. I don't want to put that responsibility on anyone else to be perfect. I just ain't able to be real. So I love that. That's amazing. So then tell me what happened because obviously we have you have rivers, yes, and we maybe on the way. Yes. So when we moved here, um my short Lafe removed to my sister Rachel, who is not married or have kids. But she had been going to my this doctor in Dallas for like endocrine like thyroid stuff,

but he was a reproductive interchnologist, so infertility specialists. And she's like, I really think you should call Dr Marinick. And I don't know. There's something about sister Earlee like you trust your sister. Like you're like, Okay, if some random jail on the street told me that, I'd be like, thank you for the advice. But it's your sister, so you're like okay, unless you need the sandwich shop. And then you moved to Ryan and Um, but I call this doctor and we went and set up an appointment.

And the first meeting we have with them, we didn't even look at my files. We talked for an hour. He to hear all about our story. Um, he just was this kind gentle like, let's not jump to surgery and fixing you, but let's get to the root of what's going on with your body and let's get your body ready to be able to carry a pregnancy. And he um was able to you. So we had embryos

from our doctor in Dallas. So when you do in betro fertilization and I can't do like a science lesson, but if you end up with embryos, so that's like you're you and your husband's stuff together. And like we transferred one straight into me, but then the rest were frozen. So we had four frozen embryos. And this doctor in Dallas, Austin Dallas three miles apart from each other or two hundred miles. Was willing to use these embryos. So Carly, they were fed X from Austin to Dallas. Your children,

your unboard children were fed X from Austin to Dallas. Yes, terrifying day, Like did anybody sign for those? When are they there? Could you please call me immediately? It was really crazy. So we went through this that most clinics wouldn't take embryos from somewhere else because they need them in there. Yeah, most most doctors want to have more control. They want to know exactly as much as they can about the embryos. They want to have more control over

the whole process. And he was willing to use them. And so we're like, Okay, he has an amazing team. He's at Baylor in Dallas, and um, we about all one day off of one year from our first meeting. We had rivers. So did you the first embryo that you put in? It worked? So they put into embryos and we got pregnant with just hern So yeah, you had two embryos left. So we lost one embryo along the way and I can't remember if it was in Austin,

or if it was in Dallas. But they don't all survive being flawed, you know, being thought out, Like that's just sort of a part of it. But before we had started the IVF process, you know, because it's a scary thing when you do IVF, you've signed all these forms because that's life that you're dealing with. So you have to say, like, if we get divorced, who gets those?

If we both die, who gets the embryos? If it was just nuts and so, like my heart was not to have to decide, Oh, I have twelve extra embryos, what am I going to do with them? We just trusted that God was going to give us the embryos that we need it. So we had one left, so rivers And I wanted to ask you because I have other friends who have done IVF, and a lot of them struggle with the moral dilemma of the embryos, like these are unborn children. What do we do? Do we

leave them in this freezer? Do we get rich? Do we I don't know what you do with them when you said you're finished having babies, Like like is in my discarding of life if I don't use them? And like I mean, did you struggle with that? Yeah, I mean that's why I said. What I was trying to say was we just trusted that I was going to

give us what we needed. And he totally did because through losing two well three basically having rivers, and then we had one left and so we started going back to Dr marrin Nick last June, so almost a year ago, and going through the whole process again and we transferred only one. Okay, So when you do IVF, they grade your embryos like A B, C, D, A plot like whatever. There's this whole system they used to grade the quality of the embryo. So this embryo was the lowest quality

of all of them. So I was sort of like, what does that mean? Like is this kid not going to be pretty or smart? Or like what A mean that the most quality embryo? And he, of course told me the story about one of his patients who's like my age and beautiful and successful, and how she was like the lowest quality embryo and the lowest quality embryo. I don't know, I mean, I don't know how they know just all the cells and who knows very too

science e way over my head. Um My was always like, what are your best chances of it working, and that the lower ones maybe weren't as great of a chance. So we transferred on Martin Luther King Day January, and we found out on Camp's birthday January twenty nine if

it worked or not. And we were freaking nervous wreck because you go, you get I didn't do the home test before most people do, but I didn't want to, so we did the blog work and then they were just like waiting for hours for the nurses to call you and tell you if you're pregnant or not. So I'm like, I can't eat. I'm like a nervous right. I have my phone like volume turned all the way up, vibrate like in my hand the whole time, like just

waiting for them to call. And we're on the way home, almost back home, and they called and both the nurses at the same time scream you're a pregnant. It was just like the best feeling, and I just I felt like I knew that it was gonna work. Stephen thought it was more of a hail mary, um but I'm like I always we always wanted to have a big family, and so now pregnant with the baby number four. It's crazy. And now on top of it all, you're pregnant during

the coronavirus and quarantine. What has that been like? Because doctor's appointments are nuts and everything's different. I mean, have have you? Just have you navigated all that? Yeah? I actually wrote a post about this on Instagram today because my friend this morning was like, how is it being pregnant during She called it the Hunger Games? During running virus? So when we were going to Dr Marnick, Um Steven

still came with me to every appointment. Our last appointment with him was sort of at the beginning of all of this. But he legit once I moved to my provider in town, not in Dallas, Um, he legit hasn't even met her. Like he hasn't gotten to come with me to any of my midwife appointments. Um didn't get to come with me to my ultrasound. He won't get to come with me to my ana ultrasound. The first

of one. I was really scary. I switched from going to an obie to a midwife and a totally new provider, and he's usually with me, like taking the notes and helping me remember my questions that I wanted to ask and just for like moral and emotional support. So that first time was scary, but I'm grateful. I have a couple of good friends that are pregnant right now too, and they're going through the same thing, so it's been

nice to get to support each other. So through all of your journey, what is your take on I don't even know what I what. I want to know what the word is I mean? Like, what is your take on family? What is your talk on the point of all of this? Like what does your take on navigating life and trust in your intuition? Like, what is your take on it? Well, what I think is crazy is

Rivers and this baby, which it's a girl. Um, they were embryos together, like they were frozen together for years and now Rivers has been alive for over three years, which is nuts, Like science is so crazy. And out of all out of my three kids I currently have, none of them are biologically related to each other, Like none of them have the same genetics, the same blood, like, none of it. And it's sort of breaking me out.

And the best way that I'm gonna have two kids that potentially look like each other and are related that are like biologically related to each other. Um. But I think this whole thing is like family is not blood, family is not genetics. Family is built in so many different ways. And I think this is just the story that God had for our family. And I honestly like

I I believe. I haven't said this while we've been talking, but if things would have happened when I wanted them to in my plan, we wouldn't have Campanasher, we probably wouldn't have rivers, like if I would have just gotten

pregnant when I wanted to. And there's just a whole slew of stories of things that adoption and infertility have opened my eyes too and made me passionate about and connected me with people all over the world, and some of my favorite friends I probably never would have known because we connected over adoption or infertility, and so I worried any of it for the world. Even though it's been like the hardest thing, it's the most beautiful thing. I read this memoir a couple of years ago. Um,

now I'm gonna forget the name of it. I'll have to text you the name of it. But it's an adoptive of the lucky few, the lucky few, Heather Abos and she calls her kids or wildflowers, and they're adopted. Several of them have special needs, and she says, because they required her to be a different kind of wild

than she would have been on her own. And the first time I heard cry because I'm like, that is how I feel like these kids of mine, like only God could they have been in my life, and they have required me to be a different Actually have a if you can see, I have a wildflower tattoo from that quote. All my kids have their own wildflower and that's what I call them, just because it's been the most beautiful journey. And we just as parents like we're our kids guides, like they don't belong to us, we

don't have control, but we have. They've been given to us to to love and to raise, and we've been entrusted with them. And this is the biggest, the biggest gift. It's something I think it was so cool And you talked about us when I reiterated again Rivers and this child that you're caring right now, we're conceived at the same time, their impress were made at the same time. But now they're going to be how many years apart in age three and a half. Isn't that nuts? It's

so crazy. And we really thought we were having I thought we were having a bull why And I love girls. I mean, I'm one of three, three girls, and we always wanted a brother. But I think I just convinced myself that I wasn't going to get to have another girl. I just thought we were gonna have a boy. And so at our gender reveal, we did a COVID gender reveal, like our friends stood in the street and I passed out hand sanitizers as party favors. It was hilarious. So

you didn't know what was No, we didn't know. We did not do that genetic testing before, and so we didn't know. So I found out. We all found out together, Like I had somebody come and take pictures, and my face is just like when you had Rivers, you didn't know Rivers was a girl. Y'all just put an embryo in the healthy. Wow. Yeah, that's amazing. What what is motherhood taught me? Motherhood is the most sanctifying. It's the

most sanctifying thing in the world. Like you have to be selfless and you know, my kids teach me so much about grace and patience, but also like laughter and fun, and I just I want to raise kids that know who they are, that are confident in who they are, that like us, that like being together and just getting to establish our own family stuff has been my favorite. Just so fun. What are some of the family things

that y'all do that you love the most? Oh? Man, well, we have pool right now and so we just I don't know, I feel like just laughing, and we have so many kitchen dance parties. Um really just like putting the technology away and having fun. We love to go, we have you know, we go to all the same vacation spots and have all of our same traditions and just we're we liked tradition. I love tradition. Yeah, ah,

I love that. When what do you want to tell mamas out there who are struggling to get pregnant, who are thinking about a option? What do you want to tell women who are in who are in the big

of the wilderness right now? Yeah? Um, just I just always want wanted to know that they're not alone, like whatever they're going through, and maybe you don't share with the world like Carolina, I would, but maybe you share with one or two really close friends really what you're going through and how you're feeling, and just being able to trust somebody with that, because like we need each other. We need to walk this walk together and um not fill alone. And I think my biggest thing is just

like don't give up. Like I feel like so many people spoken into me for a while, I was like, but I don't know, like I don't know what I can't control what's going to happen. But I think never losing hope and not giving up and like keeping your mindset healthy and positive is so huge in this journey.

And I mean also just like I'm so sorry for what you're going through, Like every mom I talked to, I mean you probably feel the same way, Like any mom I've talked to you that I've shared our miscarriage story or whatever have been like leaned in, you know, like I'm so sorry you're going through that, because there's something like my mom always says, you don't get it till you live it. And so being able to connect with people that have walked through what you're going through,

I think it's really special. What is the biggest blessing of adoption, Oh man, so much. I mean, I think it's amazing that from the very first day we met camp and Asher, their little personalities and you know, we're taking videos so you can hear what we're saying. The things that we said about them on day one are still the same things about the personality and like their

character traits now, which is so cool. It just shows me that like God makes all of us and who we are like regardless of where we grew up or what our circumstances where and who our parents were like, they're still those same people. I love them. You know, I grew up I have brown eyes, and I hated having brown eyes growing up because everybody else with blonde

hair had blue eyes. But it's so amazing now because keepin atually have brown eyes and it's something that we relate to, like we look like, we look like we have matching eyes. But they have just opened our open our eyes and our worlds to so many things that we are passionate about, so many different causes, so many different ministries, so many different things in Africa and just connected me with so many other adopted families are just around the world. It's amazing. I love that, uh, when

your story is amazing. So I always wrap up every podcast with leave your Light. And we've eve been so inspiring this whole time. And I kind of just already asked you this, but just to wrap it up, what do you want people to know? Okay, something that I

feel like I preach to my people a lot. It's just this idea that you are worthy, like whatever it is that you are going for, if you're trying to have a family, if you're trying to start a business, if you're trying to be friends with their neighbor, if you're like whatever you're trying to do in your life, just knowing your worth and knowing that you are worthy of whatever it is you want, and not like holding yourself back, but knowing your true worth, knowing your identity,

knowing your value. And I just like, I just I just see so many women we struggle with this so much, and so I lead, I lead so many I leave so many conversations with women just saying, like looking at them in the eye, like you are worthy and I want you to believe that. So I love that. When thank you so much for sharing your story, thank you for your beautiful heart. I cannot wait to meet this

new baby girl. Oh my gosh. I know they won't be in a bar part in age study and studying baby and you have taked doubt, but you're not sharing it, right, yeah, because it's not like yet, I'm just I'm nervous to commit. When did you tell people that her name was Sunny when she was born or before? Well, I'm one of those people that can't keep a dank secret, say of

my life's. As soon as Michael and I decided we're neighbor, Sunny Grayson Hobby and I'm like, you, I have a million best friends, and so I'm like, Okay, I'll just tell this person because they're like my best friend, and like and I'll tell this person because we're like super close. And by the time I was done, I told like a hundred people. And then I'm finally like, well, why don't do a freaking Facebook post because I already told

everyone in the world what her name is. Listen, we're not telling anybody, but her name is Sunny Grayson Hobby. And I said that to like a hundred people. I think that's that's how I was with Rivers and never offitually announced it until she was born, but like everyone who is remotely friends with me knew her name. Yeah, I love it. Well, it's been so fun to get to watch your podcast just grow and evolve and the

change over the past couple of years. I'm just so proud of you and all the work that you put into the world, and it's it's it's so I'm I love it. I'm so proud of finally on it. Do you feel a sense of pride that you're the reason I have my podcast? You should, No, I just I love it. I love encouraging women and their passions like that is so much of my heart and I want to see women succeed in whatever it is that they love and are passionate about, and so it just makes

me so happy. I'm like, oh it works. When I tell how I encourage people, they some people actually listen. It's great. You change my life that day when like, seriously, you changed my life that day, and I, like you said, God has led you. I think for whatever reason, I was led to you, and you had such a definitive answer for me that a podcast is what I needed to do. There's no question about it. And I was like okay, and I was like ready to receive direction,

and I received it from you. And the next day I got all the equipment and here I am four years later. You are. But you had that confidence and belief in yourself and not a lot of people have that, So give yourself some credit. Well, I appreciate you and I love even and I'll be praying over this little baby and family and um, don't hang up. I'm gonna hang I'm gonna end this recording, but don't hang up.

But I love you so much, and thank you for sharing your women like women like you're such an encouragement. I love your family like you have you have you're like Lauren and Thomas Rhett Akins like they have biological children. They have they've adopted a child, and it's just like I love that you build your family the way that feels right to you, that you feel called to do, And there's all different ways to have a perfect, beautiful family, and I just love that you are that example showing

the way. Thanks okay, by when don't hang up