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I'm pretty excited about this interview with Michael Hey, who is the head of Gulf Goook below bull communications with okay. Cupid like one of the largest dating apps in the world, and y'all's app is the only one that like faces your matches based off like tons of questions that are asked.
You like, do a big survey ahead of time? Is that right?
I have?
I've always been obsessed with love in dating and I'm so far out of the loop now because I've been married forever, but like I cannot wait to hear about what is happening there.
Yeah, so we were the only dating app that matches you on what matters through in app questions and there's thousands. They've also been answered more than five hundred million times last year alone.
Wait, okay, so break that down.
So when you download a cub it, you have to answer at least fifteen of our in app questions.
And to answer that.
Okay, so tell me what those questions are, Like, what are those kind of questions that you're asking?
How are we setting this stage here?
Yeah, so the beginning questions are pretty standard. Are you, how religious are you? What are you looking for in a partner? Sort of those like really basic questions that you would expect, how long you want your next relationship to last, choose a better romantic activity, things like that. But most people go on to answer dozens and dozens more. So that's how we connect people. And the more questions you answer, the more com hatible your matches are going
to be. Because whenever we show you another user on Okaycupid, you're actually going to see a match percentage with them, and if you click that match percentage, which is like my favorite part of the app, you get to see where you agree and disagree. Because there are certain things that aren't really that important, like I love coffee and horror movies, my boyfriend does not. We're going on nine years.
It's pretty much okay. However, there are deal breakers, especially when it comes to politics and some of the bigger issues face we're facing today, like climate change, on Black Lives Matter, and marriage equality. Certain deal breakers for people, So you get to see what you agree on and what you disagree on. You also get to rank how important a question is to you.
Oh my god, this.
Is another like layer of it that's kind.
Of awesome because they're just saving yourself the trouble. I feel like this is where dating app would be so helpful, Like if I was like right before dating apps hit, but I feel like dating apps would be so help because now it's not like embarrassing to be on a dating app.
It's kind of like the way to date. And now it's like.
So effective because you can go ahead and just see the big points that you know are going to be deal breakers for you. And instead of like going on three days and trying to like slowly get to know someone and like tell your story and what matters to you, you can just see, Okay, let's just skip to the
heart of the matter here. Do we even have anything in common in the first place, And if we have these massive things that are deal breakers, let's not even like start this process one hundred percent.
And honestly, like some of those questions are a little bit divisive and honestly sometimes boring, So we want to make sure that before you even get to drinks or coffee or a walk in the park. Whenever y'all are doing. We give you enough information about the person that you can make a decision ahead of time whether you want to meet with them or not. So we kind of like strip that part of the date away for you. Yeah, they're also busy, like we don't want to waste our time.
I want to go through some of these questions. You sent me this on some of the questions and maybe you know them that are the most important questions for like the people dating right now, and they were so great. So here's some of these questions that people are asking on the dating app, which I think is so cool and ten billion responses to okay cupids in app.
So people are all about y'all. Are y'all the biggest dating up out there?
We are not, but we're one of the ogs. I mean, we've been around for almost twenty years at this.
Okay, So y'all got something working. Okay.
So here's the questions in twenty two that were the most answered new questions.
Okay, So who comes up with these questions? Do you come up with these questions?
Yours truly? So I am sitting at my desks, pretending to work but really just having fun adding in new questions. Basically, if I'm talking about something with my friends or my coworkers or I don't know whomver, it's probably something daters want to talk about. So that's what really inspires our questions. We want them to be conver station starters, we want them to be deal breakers. We want we use them
actually to make the experience like so much better. So it's real people in their twenties thirties who are like asking all these questions or adding all these questions to the app, which is really fun.
But okay, Michael, Like, do you realize the impact you're having on people like you coming up with these questions that ten billion people are answering or I don't know how many the number is whatever, Like so many people on the app are answering these questions, Like you are helping to shape so many relationships, and you're putting such thoughtful questions out into the app, which is awesome, Like, I this is so cool. Like I hope you know how influential you are. Okay, so the questions are are
you sensitive? Love that? Like?
These are the top questions answered on that are you sentimental. So people are wanting to be sensitive and sentimental like they're wanting. They don't want just like some hot stud or beautiful woman.
They want their people are after the heart of the matter here.
Absolutely, and again I mean there obviously has to be mutual physical attraction that's never really going to go away. But when I've been at the brand for almost four years at this point, and when I first joined in twenty nineteen, I looked at some of the most popular questions from that year, like what questions that year were people answering the most, and a lot of them were around if you like coffee dates, if you like cuddling,
like really high level things. Then we got slammed with the global pandemic and everyone took a moment to take a step back, take a break from dating, learn more about themselves, and figure out like what's important to them, and we saw a huge shift in the most popular questions.
So one of the things that I looked into at the beginning of this year in twenty twenty three was and this was around the fiftieth anniversary of Robi Wade, but I wanted to know what questions were women asking or answering the most this year, what's really top of mind for them from the past year. And those questions were not about coffee dates. They were should the government defund planned parenthood? Are you pro choice? Is mental health
as important as physical health? They were answering questions about self love and global warming and you know, discussing mental health with a partner. So we've seen a big shift in dating behaviors over the years, and I think a shift in a in a really positive direction too.
It's almost like this new generation of dating is so much more intentional, Like it's like they've seen like the sex drug rock and roll, getting drunk dating, hooking up, not really getting deep with all the information right off the back kind of play out, and it's.
Like they're sort of like evolved beyond.
It feels like, do you feel that like this new generation, like it's so much more than just that instant attraction. It's like, no, it is so much There are so many other things lay which obviously that all shakes out when you get into a relationship, but you realize all these other things at play. But it just feels like this new generation is a lot smarter to go ahead, and they know what they believe in a lot younger.
It feels like maybe.
You I think what people are looking for has changed, what they're prioritizing has changed, what they're talking about has changed. So in one thing we've seen, which I actually really love, is that discussions around mental health had become a huge turn on for daters. We're seeing that more than nine to ten daters on okay keep its say they're sensitive, and this is really paying off for people, especially men. So historically this was not something men were and probably
straight men were really interested in talking about. But last year, men who said they are sensitive on okaykeep It received one hundred and seven percent more likes and eighty six percent more matches. They also had one hundred and thirteen percent more conversations than men who we're an admitting that they were sensitive at all. So this is something that historically, I would argue was seen as a weakness in men
when we look at traditional gender roles. Now is one of the most attractive traits in men.
Do you think people are players on okay keep it? Like once a guy figures out that his like percent and just go way up once he says he's sensitive and has all this like heartfelt stuff, but really he's just an asshole, like trying to like trick girls. I'm just kidding.
No, we're we an't have good daters, I of course, like of absolutely. The good news is only you and I are looking at that data, so they can't see that on the app. Okay, okay, we have to keep that between us.
Okay, well y'all listening. Don't tell anybody. Okay, this is just so fascinating. So how do people like to date?
Now?
And it's also like talking about like cooking up? Are people like cooking up right away? And you're saying people like to do like walking dates, like people aren't spending the money. There's a lot more sober dating, like what is the climate of a date now? Like how do people go on a date? Like how do you take it from the dating app to the date?
What?
And how does it advance? Like how do can you date more than one person at a time? I know you're saying too like people are a lot more open with having like open ethically open relationships, Like what does that mean?
The kind of tell me? Like what happens next?
Like you get on this app, you match up, you have you can really determine what you have in common.
But then like, how do you how does dating look? What's the what's the steps?
There's so much to unpack there.
I know.
Sorry, I'm going to go through like I'm just gonna like walk myself through the life stage. So first, when you're like on a dating app, you can probably assume at this point we're very data driven and Okaycupan, no surprise. We were actually founded by four math majors at Harvard, so we've always been very data driven. And one thing we started asking our dats recently was what is the best icebreaker? What do you want someone to open up
with on a dating app? Because that's a question I get all the time, is like I don't want to say hey or hi. So if we look first at the first conversation you have on a dating app, we asked what the best icebreaker was, and we had about four and a half million to respond to this question already, so it's not a small sample size. Thirty percent said they really prefer when a data opens up with a simple introduction, So tell them a little bit more about yourself.
You don't have to open with paragraphs and paragraphs of information and overwhelm them. But you have to put more effort into hay or high and just on that note and opening up with hey or hello or hi actually has like a seventy or eighty percent rate of being ignored.
So yeah, I feel like that someone because even if, like on Instagram, if someone writes the message and it's like hey, it's like I have no desire whatever you want to talk about, not interested.
It's nothing to feed off of another thirty percent, like when people ask the question twenty percent. Like when you open with a joke, I think this is so subjective because like what if you don't have the same humor, So like that one honestly makes me nervous, But it's the data. That's what the data shows, right, God.
Opening with a joke on a dating app like what a joke goes wrong?
Oh?
So literally the dating you're dating on the app first, But you really have to put your full effort into dating because like right when dating apps took off, before I got out of the dating world, like it was still people are kind. I'm not in a dating app.
I'm too cool for dating app all that stuff, But now that's not it. So it's like people give their full effort right away, Like, you need to take this app seriously. People take it seriously because this is how you date now, Like, really, it's totally work. Yeah, you really got to give it your best shot all the time.
You absolutely and eight percent of people like when you mentioned something on their profile. But to what you just said, work, Like I people are a little bit shocked when I say this because I think they expect me to say online dating is super easy. You can do it in your sleep. That's not the case. It's I like to think of it as a part time job. What you put into apt like okaycup it or Hinge or Tinder, whatever your app of choice is, that's exactly what you're
going to get out of it. If you were not engaged, if you are disinterested, you're going to attract people who are not taking datings seriously, who are not really feeling it. I also tell people, if you're not a mindset to date, take a break. Either just don't open your app, or write in your bio that you're taking a quick break, or delete the app altogether. You have to have to be in the mindset to start dating.
Man, that's so interesting, and this just goes back to the law of attraction in general, and it just applies everywhere, even on a dating app, Like you have to you get back what you put in.
If you are really looking to have a relationship and you really want to have someone that you align with and you really have core values that you know are important to you, like, you can go out there and find it on the app.
If you work hard enough and like you like you know, and you find other people who are working hard to match because they really want to be with someone, You're gonna at least get good interactions. You know, You're going to at least meet with people that you can like, have a good conversation with, and then if you do that enough, you'll probably land on someone that you really
dee with. You know, is okay keepid is it like cause I know, like Tinder or Hinde or something of like I don't know, grinder with like the hookup app or something like what are y'all known for? Because like some people are like, oh, you just get on a grinder if you want to like hook up?
Like what if people say about okay, keupid? What is y'alls like? Vibe? Get on okay? Keep it? If you want to get.
Married, So we definitely bring in a higher inten dator and our product is designed to do that. So you can't just download our app and upload a photo and throw in your name and start seeing people. We really make you put in work. You have to add multiple photos, you have to respond to multiple proms, you have to
answer at least fifteen of our questions. We want to make sure that it takes you a bit of time to set up your profile, so that you're being more mindful, and that the people coming into the app usually are people who are going to take dating more seriously. They're not you know, whatever you want to do, whether that's like Saturday night or Saturday night for the rest of
your life, that's fine with us. But we do want to bring in a dater that's a bit more mindful, that is taking dating and relationships a bit more seriously. So that's how our app is designed. It's definitely not the easiest to just like download and start dating.
Okay, I love it.
Okay, So let's go back to unpacking that giant, big ball question I asked you earlier.
Oh yes, yeah, So one of the things you mentioned which I find so interesting and something we recently looked into is how much people are spending on a date. So we're seeing that the economy is definitely having an impact on how people are dating. They're definitely still dating, but about four and ten of our daters are saying globally that, you know, what's happening in the economy, they're
definitely feeling it. And we're seeing that a majority of people actually want to spend less than fifty dollars on a first date, and women are fifty seven percent more likely to want to spend less than fifty dollars on a first date. I actually don't think this is a bad thing. I don't think this is people being cheap. I say this as an opportunity for you to be really creative. Dinner, drinks, shore, fun, movie dates like that's
an inexpensive date. Wouldn't recommend that for a first date because there's not a lot of conversation that's happening.
And a little awkward because then you should have to sit there in silence next to someone.
It's like, do we kind of hold hands? Do we not? I don't know. You know, you need to have some interaction on the first few dates. I feel like you need to be moving.
I actually really like going for a walk or something. It's less pressure.
You don't have to get dress up, and you don't have to eat in front of someone like I feel like I remember like when I was dating, I always thould be so awkward eating in front of someone in the beginning. You know, like you don't want to have to be like because I really want need to cheeseburger with Rise and get a little messy with it. But like you're not going to do that on a first date, you.
Know, no, you I mean, you can't have anything that's like too saucy. You can't have anything that's like going to get stuck in your teeth. There's like too many worlds. But I also, I'm like very into like a low pressure first date. So if you go on a walk, like I live in New York City, so I'm thinking Central Park right now, and you're not feeling it and you're like, eh, I'm ready for this to be over. You have the easiest out. You can just say, hey,
I'm walking this way. It was great catching up, great meeting you, so great pressure.
That is a wonderful first date because yeah, you're stretching your legs. You're kind of seeing how someone moves, like honestly, how someone physically moves and interacts with the world like you have. You kind of have to like vibe with that, you know. So there's so much so and then you can get out if you want. You need to have an escape plan for sure.
Totally. I mean, and that like a walking date is something that's completely sober. And we're seeing that young dators are really causing an increase in so dating. In twenty twelve, so about ten years ago, eighty four percent of singles on Okay Keep It said they were open to dating someone who doesn't drink alcohol, but that actually jumped really high to ninety six percent of respondents in twenty twenty two.
So we are definitely seeing this becoming a trend, and it's really driven by millennials and gen Zers, but specifically gen z. They're the ones saying, I don't need to be drinking on a date. I want to do something that doesn't involve alcohol. So that's like one of the trends we're seeing that generation drive. We're also seeing them drive a trend in not being in such a rush
to sleep around. And this was actually something that I found really interesting when we were looking at the data that gen zers or gen z daters were the generation that was most likely to want to get to know someone first, and they were taking more time than millennials to move the relationship into a physical space more quickly. So that was something nice to see as well and interesting.
The new generation doesn't just want to sleep around, doesn't just want to get drunk, doesn't just want to be physically attracted to someone and have adventures.
They actually want to have a connection.
They want to talk about mental health, They want to align with someone mentally, physically, spiritually, and like in their beliefs in the world, and they want it to be like a real full connection more than before.
It feels like that's a top priority.
And because of dating app you really can do that more quickly. It can use the apps to their highest and best advantage, which you can with something like Okay KEEPID. You really can set yourself up for good dates and it might not be like I was kind of saying earlier, it might not be like one, but like you can set yourself up to have an enjoyable date with someone that you at least you know you're aligning with on a lot of things.
Yeah, people, I think people are looking you said this earlier, like there's people are being more intentional about their dating and they're kind of they're not deep prioritizing, you know, that physical attraction, but they really are prioritizing compatibility. They're certain things that are just deal breakers or deal makers for people, and they're that's what's like top of their list right now.
That's it.
That that makes me feel inspired and hopeful, and that makes me feel like we're getting a little bit over the hump of this, the big surge of technology like Instagram and dating apps and all this connection to everyone. Like when it all came out in the beginning, it was so much and people didn't quite know how to handle it.
But I feel like maybe now people are realizing how to use how the good way to utilize all these apps in the negative way. You know.
It's like you can use a dating app to really have a great experience, or you can use it because you just want to hook up and sleep around and do whatever.
And that's fine.
But it's like people are now it's saying thing on like Instagram, like it used to be like a comparison hole and like TikTok, and like you would feel bad about yourself. But now it's like people are actually making useful videos and people you can learn stuff and you can like teach people things and it can be elevating at the same time, you know, I feel like now maybe it's like sifting.
Out enough where it's not like, oh my god, this is just all bad or this is just all good. It's like, oh, okay, you can actually have a really healthy experience here.
One hundred percent. There's definitely a culture shift. We've obviously seen it on okaycup It, but to your point, I'm seeing that on Instagram, I'm seeing it on LinkedIn, I'm definitely seeing it on TikTok. The type of content that I saw on all those platforms three years ago is completely different than what I'm seeing today. Even LinkedIn, I see such vulnerability and emotion in everyone's posts and it's
really uplifting. So a lot of these platforms, which I think got a really bad rap and you know, they're called toxic at times, they've been really helpful and I think people are building communities on all these different platforms and were I mean, we're saying that I'm Okay, keep it as well.
I think it's just it's like with anything with a pendulum swing, you just it takes a little time to like figure it out and to figure out how to like use.
It to the best way that you can.
But like I'm sitting here listening to what you're saying and thinking about how I was when I was dating. Oh my god, Michael, I was a freaking tornado. Like I was just like trying to make out with everybody that I had a connection with, and like I wanted to fall so deeply in life, but like I didn't even know how to get to those big questions right away. And then it's just like it was like a mess, which I was just like it was just a disaster.
I mean it was fun, but like I think I could have really done a better job with And I love my husband and I'm so thankful I ended up where I did and he's the best and we're it's amazing, thank God, Like we found each other through the.
Mess of dating. But like I feel like, Okay, Cupid.
Really could help you clean it up a little bit, like and just not have to be a dumpster fire of ating dedating dating disaster. Maybe I mean, you still can, and I'm sure dating is still hard no matter how you slice it. But I feel like the app is the way to go. Like, if you're not on an app at this day and age, you're really missing out.
I think you you definitely have to be on an app. That's where most people are really going to be meeting another, you know, a romantic partner. I also think it's important to choose the right app for you. Yeah, there's going to be people who come to Okay Cupan and say, I'm not really getting what I want out of this. There a disconnect, just like we're going to see people turn to Tinder and say the same thing or hand. So figure out before you go on any of these apps.
Figure out what you're looking for in a partner, what you're looking for in a relationship, and then find that app that is going to really match that match your values and your beliefs. There are so many dating apps out there you can find the one for you, and most people are on multiple at a time, So try a few different ones out.
What do you love about Okay keep It? What do you love about working there?
What do you love about the company, Like, what has you been there a long time, right.
Yeah, almost four years. I would say the brand itself is so aligned with my personal values.
Can talk to me about your values, talk to me about the values of okaykeepit, which are yours?
Yeah, so Okaycupid has well I identify as gay for anyone who has not figured that out yet spoiler alert. But I am also on the board of the Human Rights Campaign, so I am part of the community. I advocate for my own community. Okay keep It has been introducing features specifically designed for LGBTQ plus users for years and it's still the small, like a very moll cohort
of people who are on our app. But it's so important to the company, which I think tells a lot about the brand too, that they're saying, you know what, this isn't going to serve ninety eight percent of our users, but we're going to do this anyway because the people that it does serve, it's going to make such a strong impact. So Okay keep It was the first to expand gender and orientation options, the first I add a pronouner to profile they have in app. I talked about
our questions all the time. We actually have questions specifically for LGBTQ plus people that were written by queer people, and even within our own community, we're not all the same. So there are questions for bisexual people, questions for gay people, and that's something I, you know, I have always loved about. And you know, a few months ago, I thought, Okay, when's the first time they actually added a question for a queer person?
You know?
Was it when it became a trending topic? And it was actually two thousand and four, the year the company launched the app. So like that, just like further made me love this company that much more. And from a product perspective, I love that it's designed in a way that tailors the experience to people all around the world.
So and again we do that with our question. So if you're dating in Nashville or New York City or San Francisco, questions you see are going to be different than if you're dating in London or Tel Aviv or Mumbai or whatever city you're in around the world because we have localized questions in over thirty countries, because we know every culture is different.
Wow, So y'all really put in some time to set people up for success.
We yes, like we don't want you to be on the app forever. No one wants to get on a dating app where they don't know anybody who's meant on it. So we want you to find success. We want to give you all the tools that you that is going to make your experience better. I mean, we even have something called iqpid that is personal to you. So you see it. You see this dashboard. No one else is going to see your dashboard, and it gives you tips
on how to optimize the app to get a better experience. So, like one of those tips is filling out every detail on your profile.
Oh, let's do how to Let's do how to Okay?
How to optimize your dating experience on okay Cupid. How do you go on okay Cupid and set yourself up for the most success to win the dating game.
Well, first is filling out everything we tell you too on your profile, because once you do that, people who have a complete profile get two hundred percent more matches than people who are leaving things blank.
So take it seriously, do the work.
There's other tips and tricks like the amount of photos you should include, which are at least five to six, the amount of like characters, that you should include in your summary section. But one tip that I'll give that actually works for any dating app, so whether that's Hinge or Tinder or Match or okaycup it. And I found this fascinating. I learned it from our data science team when I first joined the company. So it's an insider trick. Every three to four weeks, so about once a month,
you need to change things on your profile. Delete one or two photos and add one or two new ones, and change a few of the responses the prompts that you're answering. So if you're on Hinge and you're answering a few prompts, change some of those. Same with okaycup It. What's going to happen is the app is actually going to get confused and it's going to see all this activity happening on your profile, and it's going to say, oh, this is a brand new user, and it's going to
boost you and show you to even more profiles. So that's a trick I always tell friends to do, like once a month.
Oh okay, so insider trick. Okay, So then answer answer all the prompts, which I love that you guys ask all the things like are you sensitive you talk about like politics, beliefs, all of it, the big topics, y'all ask the big questions. So answer all the questions, change it up, and then how do you stay Like how do you stay moving on it? How do you stay getting the good people come in your way? Like how do you like how do you interact? You need to be writing people like is it good to reach out
to people first? And you were saying earlier like don't reach out with just a hey, reach out with like a joke, oh, which would freak me out, But like you know, just like reach out, have a good have a good entry point to like talk to some like how do you like make the first move?
Like how do you take it to the next step? Like how do you keep it going?
Well, first, be really mindful about what you're putting into your profile. Well, that's actually the most important piece because it's your first impression. That's when people learn about you before they even start talking with you. So the one tip I have, or one of the tips I have for that is always be positive with anything you write a profile proms, I'll open friends dating apps with them, and I'll scroll past profiles with them. And the biggest turn off I see is someone saying swipe left if
and it's just so negative. I think it's really important that we all have those things that are important to us. But instead of focusing on your deal breakers, I have to tell people to highlight their deal makers.
So it's just.
About repositioning what you're putting out there in a more positive way. And then also make lists when you're filling out your profile and you're responding to different prompts, list books that you're reading, or restaurants you want to go to, vacations you want to go on, songs on your Spotify list. What this is going to do is it's going to give someone something that they can respond to. And you want to do this with your photos too, Like you
don't want to upload five different selfies. You want to upload a photo of you at the Taylor Swift concert or running a marathon or on vacation. That's going to give someone a conversation starter in a really easy way, because people need help with that opening message. So those are like the profile tips that I love to get people. And then also kind of have a.
Well rounded picture, like not like what about like bikini pictures. I feel like that was the thing, is that still cool? Do you want to put your body up there?
Is it more like put your full experience, not just that you got you know, some nice boods.
I mean, if you're comfortable with that, I say absolutely, go and do it. But make sure there's a diverse mix of photos, because again, being attractive, having someone who's attracted to you, that's definitely going to draw them in maybe for the first half a second, but after that there needs to be substance. There needs to be something that's going to keep them hooked and interested. So even if it's you in a bikini, what are you doing?
Are you on vacation? You know, give a little bit more color to what you're interested in.
Yeah, I have a point to Okay, So that's great with the profile picture, in the in the profile tagline.
Then what's next.
When it comes to messaging them for the first time. We talked about like the icebreakers that are resonating well with people. But one thing I just want to add to that is women should definitely feel comfortable making the first move, and we have data that backs up that it's more successful for them. So one thing we saw during the pandemic was that on okay Cupid, women were sending the first message more than they ever were in
our eighteen year history. I think they said, you know f it, I'm at home, I'm on a couch, I know what I'm looking for, and I'm not going to wait for a princh charming to come and knock on my door or message me on a dating app. If I want to talk to someone, I'm going to go talk to them.
And yes, I love that.
Conversations that are initiated by women last significantly longer on Okaycuepan than conversations that are started by men. So go out there, put yourself out there and send that first message.
Oh I love that, Okay, And like you said, is there a specific kind of message to send?
Some people do a joke.
Some people say, hey, I saw your prope, I saw your picture. I like that you are love to go to the beach. Like is it just like you just kind of start with something obvious.
I would say, start with anything that's like a conversation starter. So give a little bit more about yourself or kind of what you're looking for, think about why you're on the dating app, and you can open up with that as well. I like to I think questions are the
best way to start. Maybe like add an opening sentence to that question, But I think questions are a great conversation starter because before they're even going to dissect your question or panic about what to say, the most natural thing is going to be respond to that question, and then you have a conversation starting.
H I love that, Okay, And then talked to you about the metaverse. What's happening? Will people date on the metaverse?
Like?
What is? What does that mean? So?
I think the jury is still out with that. Is it that like gen z are most interested in exploring the metaverse compared to millennials, compared to Gen xers. But basically, how you would date in the metaverse is going to a platform which you put.
On like a you put on like a headset.
Yes, or you don't actually don't even have to do that. You create an avatar, so like a character of yourself or who you want to be. You go to another platform. This is there's no metaverse on, Okay, keepit, but you can go. I like to think of it as like gaming. That's like the easiest way for me to think about it. Character when you're gaming and you're interacting with with other people. So just like you're interacting with other gamers, you can interact with other dats not for me, not my jam.
So people will go in there and create an avatar? And can does it have to be a human? Can it be like a superhuman?
Could be a superhuman man?
This is wild? God gosh, I'm getting old.
I'm really starting to get old because I'm like, what is all this stuff that young people are doing?
Like, my head can't grasp it. My brain's not like my bandwidth isn't big enough to understand it.
I'm with you, honestly, I was like, what is TikTok at the being of the pandemic?
I know?
But now you're probably like the TikTok king, aren't you?
Maybe the TikTok watching king. I'm not cool enough to be posting.
But you understand stuff because like for you understand, I feel like you understand trends, you understand what's happening, You understand climate and culture, Like are you just taking stuff in? Is that? Do you kind of just gather information all the time.
I feel like I'm constantly digesting what's happening in pop culture, in society, in I have to pay attention to like politics and the economy, and because everything that's around us that winds up inspiring the questions we ask on our app. So I have to understand and what's top of mind for people in general in the US and in the UK and Israel and Germany and all these different markets that we're marketing in.
So you have to you have to understand it for every market. Yeah, does that mean you go travel to these other countries where okay Cupid is and like you like, do case study or how do you get your information? Do you just travel on TikTok?
So? I haven't yet because most of the time that I've been at Okaycupan has been during a pandemic. Fun but I have amazing partners in each of these markets on the ground. So every every week I'm talking talking to partners who are Israeli, British, Australian, Turkish, German, and we're collaborating on what we should be asking, what we should be saying on social what content we should be creating.
So okay, so your job role is creating the questions in the app and then creating the content to let people know what's happening.
In the app is that your you, just you are the heart and the soul in expressed form of what okay keep it stands for.
I like to think of myself like the core pillar of my job is basically storytelling. I'm telling stories and media. We're telling stories on social working with influencers to help tell stories. So storytelling is that like common thread through everything that I do.
What is inspiring you about dating these days and making you feel discouraged about dating these days?
Ooh, that's such a good question. I would say a lot of the trends that we talked about are what's inspiring me. Seeing how active and vocal our daters are when it comes to Black Lives Matter and climate change and LGBTQ plus rights and reproductive healthcare. That's just it's so inspiring to see because we are, you know, seeing
how people are responding to questions about these topics. We're the only dating app that introduced a Black Lives Matter profile badge, the only dating app that introduced an I'm pro choice badge in response to what we've seen happen in the US. So our daters actually keep me really inspired every single day. What's discouraging probably people complain about dating. People love to complain about dating. I hear complaints every single day about not just dating apps, but like dating
culture in general. That kind of just comes with the job. And then anytime I hear a friend or maybe a dater that DMS me about an experience. Anytime I hear someone get ghosted, that's really discouraging because there's no reason to do it. I like, you don't have to end something with someone in person if you don't feel comfortable after especially after first few dates, but you can just text them or message them on the app and let
them know that you're not feeling it. So that's discouraging because there's no reason for it, and it feels down on the other side.
Okay, I love that. So where do you think dating is going to be in the next like decade.
I think we're probably going to build off a lot of the trends we're seeing now in that tall, dark, and handsome is going to be so far forgotten in what people are looking for again. Still, I don't think we'll ever lose that attraction piece, but it's not going to be anywhere near the top of people's list, and we're going to become even more mindful in how we're dating, and that makes me hopeful too.
It's even like I have a three year old daughter, and so we we're watching a lot of Disney movies right now. Like I don't like playing the old Disney movies like Sleeping Beauty and Snow White and Cinderella. It's like all of those movies set up this maiden in distress to be saved by the tall, dark and handsome prince, and I'm like, oh, oh.
I can't do it. And I like love those movies growing up, but I'm like the messaging is just not right. So it's like the.
New movies, like I feel like even seeing it in Disney, it's changing, like how people are viewing their roles and what a relationship is. Like with Encanto, it's like you know and like uh mawana, and it's like women are strong and capable and it's not all about having someone save you and having like the.
Tall, dark and handsome prince ride in. It's like, no, let's not do that anymore. Like yes, let's be attracted, but we don't. No one needs to be saved.
We all need to be like working together and healing ourselves and then becoming a stronger team together. I feel like it's shifting in general, Like the awareness of what a relationship could and should be is elevating.
Absolutely. And those are also two of my favorite movies.
In Conto and Mawana.
Yeah, I'm like a child still me too.
I could watch them all the time.
I'd literally all the New Disney movies I love and I.
Like watch the old oh good, but the old ones.
I don't know if you've watched the old ones. If you watch the old ones in comparison to the new ones, like the way the storylines are changing, it's it's huge, It's like a drastic change.
Yeah. I haven't like, really rewatched the old ones for quite some time, although there was literally a week during the pandemic that I watched Mawana five times in one week.
It's the best movie of all time. Yeah, my favorite. Do you like that part with the crab is singing and he's like, did you like my song? It's like myself, I freaking love one. It's so good man, Michael, You're so fun. What are you loving in life these days? What's bringing you joy?
Soul cycle? That's my therapy? Okay, I need. I need to go like four or five times a week. It's how I remain calm and grounded and collected. And then also reading books like hardcover not tablets. I'm a big reader.
What are you reading right now?
I right now am reading Every Value Break by Peter Swanson, So I'm really into like mysteries and thrillers.
Every Value Break Okay, okay.
It's very good so far.
Well, you're just so fun.
What's it?
Okay?
And I have like two more questions than a wrap up? What's it like to be living in New York? Like you're in the city of all the action, but yet now we've come out of this pandemic, everything's changed. I feel like all the big cities don't quite have the same like beautiful, glamorous vibe they used to have, but still in my heart, I feel like they do.
I don't know what's it like to be a young, sophisticated, in love guy in your prime in New York City right now? What is that vibe?
I think it's just as magical as pre pandemic. Because I'm a New Yorker born and raised, so my parents are Brooklyn born. I grew up right outside New York City. I went to college in like the middle of New York, and I've been working in New York City since twenty fourteen. So New York will always be so incredibly special to me. Even when I travel, I'm always so excited to come back here.
So the magic is still a full force.
Yeah, it's not going anywhere.
Has it changed since the pandemic or is it kind of back to normal?
I think it's back to normal. I would say probably twenty twenty one actually is when it started to feel more normal. But yeah, I think it's I don't feel any like lingering impacts of the pandemic personally. Of course, there's been businesses that I've shot, but there's also been a ton of businesses that have emerged as well.
Right, Like the online world has like really blown up.
Yeah, so I think the magic's still here. Definitely encourage people to come visit.
Okay, good, because that New York to me is like one of the greatest cities ever. Just I mean even just like going being able to go to a Broadway play, you know, it's just like what you can do in New York is so spectacular. I always wrap up with one question and Michael, you are just such a fascinating person to talk to. You have such like a pulse on what's happening in the world. It's so easy to like, I'm like, what, fifteen.
Years out of dating, so I'm kind of far out of dating, but it's like so easy to like get out of what's happening.
And like, I literally look at all the young people all the time, and I'm like, what, how are you navigating this? What's going on out there?
So like just to know from an insider perspective, like yourself, what dating really is these days, how people are doing it, how to succeed with it, how to use these apps to the best of your advantage, and how not to be like I mean, I guess people really aren't like embarrassed of being online anymore on apps, Like that's like a normal thing, right, Yeah.
Although when I met my boyfriend, we met on Tinder in twenty fourteen, and I had only known about Tinder for maybe three months at that point, and I remember the first time I heard it. I was away with friends and one of my guy friends is meeting up with a girl that he met on Tinder, and I thought that is so weird. That you're meeting up with a strainer in a new city that you met on
an app. And now it's so much more normalized that I'll be out with friends or friends will go out and let me know things that happened and they'll be like, oh my god, this guy was so creepy out the bar and I'm like, well, what happened And she's like, well, I don't know him, and he came up and said hi to me. So there's like such a like course. Now I'm fascinating.
Because before the only way to talk to someone is a random guy to come up and talk to you at a bar, or not the only way, but that was like one of the main ways. So now that's actually considered kind of like invasive and gross.
Yeah you see, like a swap that's so wild.
So like the way that people used to do it is now like a total turn off and disgusting. It's creepy.
Yeah, so weird.
I always wrap up with leave your light. And it's just a super open ended question, especially like with you and dating and understanding all this and the culture. What do you want people to know?
Ooh, I want people to know something. I tell myself that You are enough exactly how you are, and for anything good that happens in your life, you deserve it. You are not lucky, you earned it. So whether that's having a seat at the table, being part of a certain room, you are there for a reason. So you are enough and you deserve all the good coming your way.
Love that love that so good.
I'm so gay.
You're the one behind all the questions for the dating app because you have such a sweet, beautiful soul, Michael, and I love that you're putting that out into the world with the people trying to find their own love stories.
Yes, positive vibes.
So where can everyone get involved with Okaycupid?
If people want to follow along with you? Just what's all the information we need to know to keep up with this conversation?
You can follow and keep up with okaycuep it at Okaycupid on Instagram and Twitter and TikTok. And you can find me at Michael kPr on Instagram and Twitter and feel free to DM me with any dating questions you have, advice you need or if you just want event. I am there for you.
Oh my god, You're so nice.
So you actually respond to people and will like take their questions and answer them and give good feedback.
Yes, I had one guy a couple months ago was dming me like paragraphs for about forty minutes on my commute to work, and we were going back and forth about this experience. He it wasn't even a girl he met on Okay Cupid. It was a woman he met in his like town, but he just like needed to talk to someone. So I'm there for you.
So kind of generous of you to give your energy that way. That is so nice.
Michael Okay, So y'all have questions, y'all hit Michael up.
He said, doors are open. I love that you are such a kind, amazing soul. This was so fun to hear about this, and I appreciate you enlightening me because I now am like, oh, I mean I really am. I'm like old, Like I like the music I like. Now I'm like all these new artists coming out, I'm like, who are these? And like I was like, oh, I will never become old like my parents, and they just like don't stay hip with stuff, and I'm like, yeah, it's just I'm out of the loop. I don't know
how to stay in the loop anymore. It's a big loop to stay in.
I'm in the same boat. I also teach. I teach at New York University, and my students will talk about things and I'm like, who is that? What is that trend? So they keep me young too.
But how does how do they all know about the new person?
Like?
Are they how do they all have the same Are they all like watching the same TikTok pages? Or like, I just don't know how they all know the same stuff.
We're old, We're old.
That's it.
That's it. That's what I finally accepted.
I'm like, it's like a full time job to stay current with who's out there, and I just don't have that desire anymore.
Sadly, Oh but it's true. So thank you for updating me on what's going on in the dating world, because I've been curious about it, and I'm sure a lot of people are and this was such interesting information.
Of course, thank you so much for having me.
Well, you have a wonderful day and a great weekend, and maybe I'll see you out there in a wild world one day.
Yes, Okay, bye Michael.
Bye.