Jennifer Wayne: John Wayne’s Granddaughter talks about lessons learned from being a professional tennis player, “The Amazing Race,” and her Top Ten song “Buy My Own Drinks” with her hit trio Runaway June, currently on tour with Carrie Underwood.

we got second place. We talk all about all of our our journey together. We talked about stories from the Amazing Race. We talked about music, We talked about failing, succeeding, how you overcome, how you keep going. And now Jen is in the hit trio Runaway June. It's an all female trio and they have a top ten song. By the time you hear this podcast, though, it's probably going to be a top five song because it's killing the charts.

It's called By my Own, Buy My Own Drinks, and jin It's just all about perseverance, staying strong, not giving up. And it's so inspiring and so much fun to have this conversation. So get excited. Here's Jen Wayne. Hello, Hello, I'm here with gin Wayne. What's going on? Jin? I'm just staring at your baby bump. Listen all. I mean it's big. I mean it's beautiful. By the time this episode airs, I will probably have a child. Isn't that crazy? Yes?

That is crazy. And for all the listeners, Caroline and I haven't known each other forever, so to the babies have we don each other like fourteen or fifteen maybe a long time. I mean I've known you since the day you moved to Nashville pretty much because yes, because you moved into the house that you remember list Oh my god, and Beth wait, Beth Cooper Potter, and you were driving you were going to Forever twenty one, still my favorite store, and you were like about to break

up with your boyfriend. You didn't know how to breake up with them. I'll never forget that was about right, hot mess. I mean I think we met and I was like twenty three and you were like twenty four. And now I'm actually when I was twenty three and you were twenty two. Do you speak your agelong? Yes? Okay, great, just a grand old thirty seven. I'm a grand old thirty six, So we have known each other for like

thirteen years. Yeah, because I remember hearing through the Great One because I had moved here to Nashville from Texas, small town girl to be a country music singer. And my friend from college, Beth, was like, got this house on Craigslist, just like, yeah, John Wayne's granddaughter is moving from California and she with her Chihuahua and she's going

to live with me. And I'm like at that point, I was like, why aren't you going to live in a mansion, Like, you know, you're John Wayne's granddaughter, you should be living somewhere, Like don't you have like a mansion in a limousine service and all sorts stuff. Wish that would have been cool. Instead, he moved into the house with like six girls and you lived in a closet basically. One girl lived in a tent in the backyard. Yeah, no,

I had a room. So what happened was everyone listening. Um, I rented from this girl who said it was going to be me and her and my one dog and I get there and she had literally rented every crevice of the house out. She rented the sunroom out, the closet out the attict out. There was a girl living in a tent in the backyard, like aigon cord, so she had a fan in there or something like a TV or think or something. It was so crazy and like all these dogs, remember Rebecca and her dog to

her dog was so scared of everything. So yeah, that was my first Nashville experience. So I met you like literally right when you moved to town. Yeah, the day I think it was the day. I remember you were driving in that car and we were both kind of shy, and so we sort of started like linking up trying to do music together, like kind of almost instantly. Ish Yeah, no, instantly we started writing together. But you had a deal, you had a record deal, you moved to town. Oh

my god, more a Griffin Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, listen if you don't know more. Griffins started like Will of Fortune, right, yes, Jeopardy and we all of Fortune. He was like the first late night talk show guy. He was like before Johnny Carson, and he's your Griffin show godfather. He was like like a godfather. He wasn't my godfather, but he just like was like a grandpat

to me. You know, he was so sweet and he wrote the theme song for Jeopardy and he had a number one song in the country with like lovely bunch of coconuts. You wrote that, Yeah, I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts lazy. No he did not. Yes, No, that was too was what crazy? Yeah, he was like so talented with creative brain to write that strange song. I know, I love that in the Jeopardy theme song. Yeah. Yeah,

so he was pretty awesome. It's a saying. Okay, so you moved to town because you were in California, and then how did you decided to move to Nashville. Well, I always wanted to be a songwriter, and so I just knew that the best songwriters in the world were here. And I kind of like tried to do it a little bit in l A and I would write with people you know here and there. But I just knew that if I wanted to be the best, I had to be around people that were the best. And I

was definitely not even close being the best. So um, I moved here. And if I would have known how hard it was, then I would have never moved. I Mean, I was so naive I had no idea. Yeah, so I was just and I should have quit probably so many times. I don't know why I kept going, but

I just kept going. No, seriously, you know, well, you know, I think that's one thing that happens to this musical entertainment journey is it doesn't happen right away, and you've really got to want it, because if you don't want it, you're not going to get it. Because this town can swallow you love, even though it will we wade you out. Everyone's kind and loving and it's amazing community. But you've got to want it. You gotta kick butt and you

gotta stay with it. Yeah. Well it's so weird because sorry, if you guys hear like a hard breathing, that's my job. Blue. Last time I saw him, he was this tiny little thing and he is so big. He's had a few dog bones in his life. So um. But you know it's really weird is some people moved to town and it happens like that. Like some people it just happened

so fast, and then some people it takes forever. And I think you have to like not get caught up and worrying about the people that made it so fast because I feel like I got I had a little bit of that for like five years. I'm like, all my friends are making it, All the people have grown up with are all successful now, and I'm still at

the very beginning, you know. And it's hard to like not compare yourself to that or not look at that and be like, shoot, you know myron either you just kind of have to focus on yourself and just keep going. And comparison is the joy? Is that what that quotas comparison with joy or something like, oh, I've never heard that, but yeah, So tell me a little bit about your journey. So tell me how it all went. Break it down

for me, tell me and also for everyone listening. Jin was a professional tennis player being the key word before she became a hit singer songwriter. She was a professional tennis player before, so you have many talents. Well, thank you was definitely the key word. You still got a girl of Um. Well, so I moved to town with that deal and we made a record with Carl Jackson and blue Grass blue Grass. I loved it and it was kind of a bluegrass record. Um, but unfortunately we've

passed away before it was done. So the deal kind of just faded, and um I so I was like, okay, I've got to figure something else out. And I remember I got this manager and she was Madonna's manager, and she was awesome, but yes, Greece, but she lived in l A. And she didn't really know Nashville. And she's like, okay, let's just do a showcase. And I had played like five live shows in my life. I didn't know what I was doing. And so she set up this huge

showcase at the Quarter. Every label in town was there. There were news crews, they're like people were waiting outside the door, and I was so green because you're John Wayne's granddaughter and you're gorgeous, and so everyone was curious, like what is this going to be like? And it was very bad. It was very bad. And it was crazy though, because you have to fall sometimes. Like I felt so hard that night, like I thought I did well and then I got passed by every single label

and I was like, oh my god. And I just remember like wanting to just move home, and I thought like I could never show my face in this town again, like everybody knows I failed, had everybody passed on me, Like I can't I can't stay here, And I don't know why I did stay here. I think I just was so stubborn. How do you deal with moments like that when you feel like you've really put yourself out there, You're super vulnerable and exposed, and like you said, you

felt like you had failed. Obviously, it's not a failure because it all led to where you are now, but at the time it felt like and it was a failure at the time, which is okay, it's okay. How do you decide that you're going to show your face again? Like, what do you tell yourself in those moments? Don't honestly, I don't know. I just remember going home and just bawling, crying.

My best friend Dre was with me, and we like went out and had sushi, and I think I drank all the sake in the world that night, but I think I like cried for probably a week of just like, how am I gonna show my face again? And I don't really remember what the moment was, but I do remember my mom calling me and saying that my grandpa, who's John Wayne, and you know, one of the most famous people in the world, and he didn't really become

a star till he was in his fifties. He over two D seventy movies, and he really didn't come into his you know, huge stardom until later in life. She was like, so, don't give up, like you're you're just doing it the hard way, and so I just stayed. And that's when, honestly, you and I started writing a lot, and you were kind of in a position where you were super talented, but you were kind of afraid to put yourself out, and so I think it was just

easier to do it together, you know. I think that's like for me, always been super helpful to have friends and support and like doing something together with someone, it's like you give each other the strength. So I think that's what we did for each other. We locked in and it was fun too. It was awesome. And then Taylor, we had a little wild children's granddaughter, hopped on board, kept everything spicy, and she taught I feel like both of us a lot because she just had no inhibition.

She'd get on stage and she was just the less fearless and I was all fear So I think she, you're like, really taught us how to be a performer in respect of it to get out of our shell because in interviews she was so sometimes too real and too wrong. But it taught us how to be honest and how to activate that part of ourselves instead of just being so nervous that everything how to be perfect, because I think we saw with her that people really

responded to her outrageous realness. Yeah, and putting herself out there, putting yourself out there. Yeah. Yeah. It was like boot camp, I feel and our band was called Stealing Angels. I feel like, even though it didn't pan out, it was the greatest thing that could have happened for all three of us. Yeah, just to prepare us for this entertainment

journey totally. And that's like looking back now seven, it took a long time to get here, but like every single moment, every single failure, every single thing you did, leads up to where you are now, Like you wouldn't have the tools to be where you are now if you hadn't have done that, you know, and you really believe that with Stealing Angels, I mean I learned some from you girls being on stage and then radio, like met so many radio people which got you and I

are next job being on the other side of the music business about that. Well, so Caroline and I we just don't we just don't give up. But we there was a label and they hired us to be promotion a promotion team together a duo which they promotion is the one that goes around promoting artists to radio people across the country. And he hired us. Yeah, switch sides. We got on the other side, which is so important

to learn the other side of the music business. Yeah, and they hired us because Caroline and I knew radio from being in a band. They were like, this is interesting. We've never no one's ever really done this before. They've never heard it, hired an artist to be on this side, and we did really well. Disclaimer for everyone listening, there's only always one regional per region. But j and I were like, we're not doing it if you don't hire

us together. We're like, we're not going to go on the road and talk to all these radio pds who we love. But like we've been used to being together in a trio or like us just working together, Like we're not doing this solo too lowly out there on the road. It's too hard, it's too hard. And also we knew we were good, so we're like, we knew we wanted to hire us, and we're like, this is the deal or not. And that was when we got a company card. That company card that was that was

the real deal. I've never had a company car before. I was like, oh my gosh, that's so funny. I know, and Jin you the responsible one. So Jin was always one like super organized and like playing everything out, and I felt like I was always like the little sister.

But we had such a good dynamic. I know we did because you brought me out of my show, like you made me kind of more exciting where I would be the boring one, like, but we totally passed a whole nothing a world that you and I did Big World, which was amazing. Race that was a defining moment. Yeah, I mean, all this is a fining moment, but that was like that was crazy because it took us to

a whole another stratosphere. And also when our band broke up, Stealing Angels broke up because Taylor got knocked up and she wanted to be a mommy, and yeah, I was kind of like came to a screeching Hall and Caroline and they were like what are we going to do with our lives? Like Taylor got pregnant, moved to Seattle, She's still married to her husband John, and that was the two cutest boys. And now she's like doing a

tribute Bandeche Loretta and she had in Conway. Twitty's grandson's doing it with her, and she's like on cloud nine, loves her life, found her niche Like it's awesome, she found her spot. Yeah, but yeah, it came to a screeching hot halt, and you and I were like, what are we going to do with our lives? Yeah, we felt like the same way. I think my showcase felt like we're like it all just came crashing down, like we failed, like one day to the next. We lost

a deal, we lost I lost my publishing. I don't know if you last year and you still had your but like lost everything. Yeah, it was crazy and amazing. Race just happened out of the blue, I think like a month later some crazy and it's just so weird. But they were looking for two country singers. That's Caroline and I didn't know what we were going to do when that came to us, just fell into our lapside of the blue yes, Like, oh my gosh, We're like, yes,

little did we know what we were getting into. They were like, oh, it's a traveling show. Because I had never seen it. You just travel around the world and do fun things. I'm like, yeah, great, we had no idea. How difficult. Tell me your take on Amazing Race. What was your experience like and what did you think about that?

I mean, it was unbelievable. It was amazing for lack of a better word, um, but just being able to travel the world and see it the way we did, Like there's so many things that we would have never done on our own, Like I would never go to Sri Lanka or you know, Malaysia or wherever, and so I just felt like we got an experience that we would have never gotten without that show. But Sri Lanka where you made an outfit in the sweatshop that was Malaysia,

Malaysia or China. How crazy is that? Like we went to a sweatshop and you made an outfit. Yeah, and you got to see like what that really looks like, like what a sweatshop in Asia and a third world country looks like. And it's crazy. That was what was so cool about amazing race is it puts you in the environment, like you're not just like a tourist, you are like in real life environments that are happening in

that culture. And you know, also for you guys listening, you don't have any money, like you just have the money that they give you per leg and so to like be at an airport and not be able to just buy a bottle of water, just simple things that you would normally not even think about. It's not even about being rich, it's just being able to buy a bottle of water. To not be able to do that is like it just really kind of put things in perspective of how how lucky we are. That That was

a lot of my take on it. What were some of your favorite places we went to and some of your favorite experiences and favorite teams? Well, okay, favorite teams. We love the Cowboys, loved the Globe Chatter's um David Connor were the best, and they were the father's son duo who beat us at the end four seconds second place. We should we should have beat them. Signed if we're gonna lose anyone. Yeah, they're both cancer survivors, which was awesome.

They're awesome. They're amazing. I think those are my those are my favorite teams, Um, my favorite experiences. Well, Switzerland I think was just so beautiful. Like that cheese thing was just not my favorite experience. So what that but that one was was I would always call myself the man of our relationship was le bron. Jin was my damsel. And we had these like l of cheese that we

had to haul up a mountain of snow. It's here Jin and I two girls, not huge girls at all, and there's these big guys that they're doing the exact same challenges us. It's the same way of cheese. I mean, it's like you get no advantages. It's all the same for everybody. The physical part we get. It's tougher for women,

I feel like. So we had haul these bales of cheese up to the snow filled mountain, load them up on a sled, and then get them to down the mountain and they're like falling, the bales of falling and when the cheese falls off, it sinks into the snow, like it's not like it just falls off on grass, Like you have to like dig down in the snow to get out. And it's like she carolines like, come on, chin, come on chin, you can do it. Why I want

to eat the cheese. Oh? We hung in there and thought we were going to hang in there, and I think that was our greatest advantage. Yeah do you think so? Oh? And no one thought we could do it. Everyone was like, oh, let's keep Gin and Caroline around because we can beat them at the end, so let's keep them, and they

get kind of worked her totally. We worked it, and then it was that I don't know which because we did two seasons, season twenty four and then All Stars season twenty two and then All Starts twenty four, so I might be mixing up the seasons. But one time the Cowboys had an express pass, and how did you sweet talking me into? That? Was my theory. I'm like, listen, so an express pass? Telling the challenge because I was

losing my mind. Oh my gosh. Caroline was having to put together a car, a big, big, like toy car, and it was the directions were in Chinese and she doesn't like putting stuff together to begin with. Was like, no, you love this. I thought you did, and I realized that was my mom simply, what are you talking about? Oh? My god, and I'm terrible too, so, oh my poor Caroline. It was that was that challenge was a nightmare. And

so Caroline is just breaking down. She's like crying, and I'm just watching her and everyone's breezing through it, and I'm like, we're gonna lose, Like we're gonna get eliminated. She's having a breakdown, and I'm like, I have to get the express pass or we lose. And the Express Passe needs you get to bypass that challenge. And the Cowboys had one for themselves and then they had to

give one to another team. Yeah, and they could give it to whoever they want at any time, And so I just went there and I just started working at But my my reasoning was, I'm like, listen, we are not a threat. You know, we're going to use it right here, so it will never be a threat to you in the future. They're already done, they're already done, they were already going to win the leg. And I'm like,

we're going to waste it right now. And we're the worst team, so if we're not a competition for anybody, so you might as well give it to us rather than one of the good teams that could beat you guys. Yeah, it's actually not a lot. No, I know, that's very that was very honest work got it. I'll never forgetting your face when I gave it to you. We were just so thankful to put that thing together. Oh my god, because I was like, this is where it's over. That's where we die. I know I knew it too, I

saw it. Oh, but that's one thing when you get in the zone. You can get in the zone, like when you know you gotta get something done and drop the hammer. I'll drop it, You'll drop it. Yeah, we were a good team because I don't I'm not really as good at dropping the hammer. Like I'm kind of a little more started. It feels like in life sometimes on a regular basis, but you're sort of in the beginning, yes, but then I'm like the slowest snail, but like I

just won't stop. And then when you really got to lay it down, you get a look in your eyes. I mean you get focused, it is happening. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. And we got it and we kept going what we're here, like, what was one of your favorite? Um?

You know, I loved getting to see the different cultures, like you're saying it was so cool to go to Sri Lanka and like writing those little tub tucks which are like little crazy cars that are going everywhere, and I don't know how people don't get their lanes off. People are sticking their heads out and cars are running right next to them and there's no like no lanes or no um pattern, like there's just a wild I don't know how they don't wreck every day. I know,

to see that culture was amazing. I loved going to Africa. I loved going to Africa. We got to stay in a cool place and that night when we got to the bushman asked us to do their little ritual with the dance by the fire and their babies and stuff.

It was unbelievable. I remember thinking to myself after amazing race, like it changed me in the way that just seeing so much of the world and getting to have so much intimate, so many intimate experiences with cultures and the people in those cultures, it opened my eyes so much to realizing that there are so many ways to live life, in so many ways to be happy, and like ours isn't the only way or the right way. You know, gets stuck in your life here sometimes, which we have.

It's amazing and it's awesome to live in America. It's the greatest country, I think, and I know you feel the same. But it's like it was just so it opened me up so much. I'm like, there's so many ways to go through this life, all the colors. Like even the dance that we learned, and was it so long one? I think that was Sri Lanka, right, was that Spain? No, that's another dance. But the dance where we had to like twirl or I was having on

your head. Yeah, one person had a role two plates on the head and and dance and the other one had to do one. And so I took the I took that for the team. But like all the colors, there's so many beautiful colors in the world, you know, like all that just outfits and the different cultures is amazing. We were really good teammates. I have to say. We never like obviously we got so frustrated with each other because it's impossible not too, but we never like went

below the belt. We never really fought. We just got frustrator sometimes. Yeah, like other teams would break down and they would fight and yell and we just like yeah, and we held it together the whole time. All that one story when we're running like it's towards the pit stop. I think it's like in Berlin or it's in Ireland, and we're both running and I'm telling you in those cobblestone streets and I'm telling you to go one direction

and you're telling me to go the other. And I'm like, no, we're wrong, and I'm like, you're wrong, this is the wrong way. Wait what did I say that we're both wrong? We're both wrong and we're both going the wrong way. To drop it? And we started laughing because you were convinced you're right. I was convinced our rose right. And I was trying and I get stubborn to and I was like trying to like beat in your head that I was right. You're like, we're both wrong. But that

got you. You finally were like, yep, we are, We're both wrong, but we I will say. Remember when we were in oh, gosh, I don't know where it was. I think it was England actually, and we were driving and you like the car kind of broke down because I had the parking brake on driving on the highway and she was driving a stick shift on the left side of the road, just learned how to drive a month before we get and the stick is on your left hand, so it's not even just the other side,

the whole thing is different. And I just remember thinking, oh my god, if you ever want to know if you should marry a person, just go drive a stick shift in traffic in London lost and see if you guys can still get along out there, Because if you can pass the test, I think he could like pass anything barely. But like to me, doing the directions you're driving, we were both like it was impossible and to be able to still communicate and like not totally lose it

on each other. That in that stressful of a situation is like I thought, Okay, that's got to be the test. That's the marriage test. We did really good. I mean, I feel like because you and I decided ahead of time that we were always going to assume the best in each other, because I knew you wanted to win

just as much as I did. But we have our physical limitations that are going to pop up and circumstances, and we always just assumed even like if we were really mad inside and wanted to lose it, we never did because we're like, Okay, I know that person. I know she's doing the best she can, and then next time it's going to be me, he's going to need

the grace. Yeah, And I felt like we both did really well with like keeping each other lifted, like when we were stressed at or having a bad like when I was the very first episode when I was stuck in the sand for eight hundred hours, You're just so nice, You're just like, it's okay, Jane, you can do it, like you're so positive, and I just because you couldn't find the ticket, it was so hot, and it was

just a lucky thing. And then by the time they started rebuilding the sand castles, they were building it on different putting it back on a different place, so it's impossible where basically it was in board bar. And the first challenge was there was all of these sand castles in five hundred and there was a few net clues under them, so you had a dig each one up and if you didn't find a clue, had to rebuild it.

And so you were and it was hot, the sand was not you had to pack the sand, and it was hot and dry, so I had to go to the ocean and get like water to pack the sand. I mean, each building, each sand castle took five minutes right at at least hours. Finally we got down to three teams and then it was us, Max and Katie and then firefighters firefighters, and we did something that had never really happened, an amazing race history we called We all decided that we were gonna, what was it, take

a penalty. And so because all of us knew it wasn't going to be impossible to find the ticket, the sand castles were put on different places, so we couldn't it was impossible and everyone had been out there for hours, and so okay, then explain what happened next. So we agreed to take a penalty, and from that point on, it was just like a race to the to the finish line, and whoever loses is out. It was eliminated. It was the first episode of our entire like the

first show. We're like, oh, great, we're gonna first, We're going to be and if you don't make it, that's the only time you're ever aired on TV. And so we were like, I cannot believe this is happening. And you had to go to any other countries, you missed, the missed everything. And so we from that sand castle on we had to sprint to make a canoe by ourselves,

two girls. Everyone else had guys on their team, and like tie it together and get the bamboo and make the canoe yourself and then canoe a mile and a half to the finish line. And we're against men firefighters and I've never canoed before. Yeah, And I was so tired because I've been in the stand for like eleven hours.

I had nothing left. And so the fact that we out canoe the firefighters because they felt they tipped, they took thank god they Yeah, and we balanced and stayed up and you just you carried us until the end because I had nothing left. Well, I found something in me that I never have had since Amazing Race and might not ever have again, which is a sense of a reserve energy that I didn't know I had, and I hadn't been building for eleven hours. But like when it came to Amazing Race and it came to like

getting stuff done, you were just I wanted. I didn't I was not going to let a physical tiredness. Stop me, And that is not how I am in real life, because I will stop in real life, you know. But I was like, Okay, we gotta go, We gotta get there, like we got to sit. I think I want I haven't wanted something that badly. Yeah. Well, and it's a competition, like you feel like you're kind of in the Hunger Games out there, like when it comes home. Yeah no, never.

That was the most torturous fate that could have happened. But you just you stayed with it to Jim too, but you really powered us through that and we somehow out canoed the firefighters and a mile and a half long can you ride? After building a hundred degree heat for eight hours? And we lived to see another day and we made it all the way to the final

season finale. We got to every country. But how good this food taste after you work so hard like that in a physical challenge and sleep and sleep like I don't. I never had a problem falling asleep. I could sleep for I could just close my eyes and I'd fall asleep. And today it takes me like an hour to fall asleep. Yeah,

that was being that exhausted. Help so I'm so grateful for that experience me too, you know what a blessing And it came out of the perfect time of our life because we both kind of thought everything was over and it gave us kind of like a new um sense of ourselves, like we can do anything. We can literally do anything we put our mind to. What did you take away from it all? Like, what was your

big what was your gathering from all of it? I mean, I just thought two girls that should have been eliminated on the first episode of the first time, they did it and they ended up going all the way both times, losing the second time by four seconds. All these other teams are so much stronger than us. We beat and it was just awesome. We was like mental, we like mentally persevered and we did it and it was awesome. What did you learn about mental being? What did you

learn mentally? Like, what what did you take away from that? Because there were teams that were stronger than us and there were teams that were better than us, so but being a mental game, what did you realize with all that? That's everything? Yeah, I mean it really is. You can either you can make or break yourself with your mind, you know, you can keep yourself going. Your minds the thing that's telling your body to keep going. It's not your physical thing. First, you know, you just gotta keep

keep at it. And I feel like that just showed you so much, like mind over matter, mind over matter, and we did it. You're really good at not getting flustered. Like even if you get flustered for a second, you're really good at pulling it back together. Do you think that's from being an athlete or what do you think that's from? Is it just your personality? I think all

my parents divorces, how many divorces e something? No? I do think like I always have had to be the one to keep it together, and just like even in every situation, and I find myself and I'm always kind of like, did you don't really let yourself fall apart? No? But ever right now and then you'll have a moment. But it is hair. Yeah, it's I think I'm mentally pretty tough. But I do drink wine that he do.

Do you think it started as a kid, Yeah, I think just like being tossed around and families like that. And I was the oldest, so I had to take care of my brother and sister, and I think, you know, and they my brother kind of had struggled with it. So if I didn't keep it together, who would he have? So I just kind of had to. And I think that's how it just was my whole life. And then like moving to Nashville, I had nobody, no family here, and so I just had to kind of be my

own my own strength. But what has your mind wanted to do, because like what has made your mind be strong? What is the goal that your mind says be strong for I guess I've never thought about that. That's a really good question, probably for myself, like believing in myself. And I think because you've had things that you you have known that you've wanted to become and achieve things

your whole life. Yeah, you've always had high expectations for yourself. Yeah, and I always know I can do it, But there's also that kind of thing in the back of your head that's like, no, you can't do it, like youn't know, you're not good enough. And so that's a battle of like battling that going No, actually I can do it, and I can work hard and I can do it, and I can do anything I put my mind to and so I think that that's um something for myself. I just know, work hard, be nice to people, and

you just persevered, don't give up. You know when you could you could be not the most talented person, which is me and but seriously, you could, like you could be the most talented person in the world and never make it because you're not mentally strong and you and you give up maybe one day before you get the record deal the next day. You know, I just feel like people give up too soon. When did you realize

that being mentally strong and working hard with the answer? Well, all my life and tennis to that, Like your dad's a professional tennis coach. Who did he He's like Jimmy Connors and he's amazing. He was Jimmy Jimmy Connor's coach. Yeah, um, tennis, Because even if I was losing, and even if the girl was a better player, I knew that if I stuck in there, I mentally beat so many people. And I'm not even kidding. That's how I won a lot of my matches. Would you do in your head? What

is there? Like I wouldn't give up and like I would change my game. A lot of people don't like slices. This is all kind of stuck. But I just figured out what would make the other person fall apart, and I wouldn't give up. And so there I really feel like a mentally won a lot of my matches because I just wouldn't give up. So that's kind of so when you started self spiraling or or hearing that voice in your head saying you're not good enough, you can't do this, what do you do to flip it? Because

you obviously flip it? How do you flip it? I think having faith in God for me is like the main thing. How do you that you're good enough to flip it? Like for people who don't like you, don't I mean, you know you're good enough inside your guts telling you you're good enough. You're all everybody's good enough, we all have you're good enough believe that, yes, you

trust your gut. And but I do think that there's so many, you know, people that are telling you you're not or you're failing, or you haven't made it yet or whatever. And for me, like having faith in God just going okay, I wouldn't be on this path if God didn't want me here, you know, And if there were all these blocks, like if I feel like I would feel like I'm going down the wrong path if

I was, and I never did. I just felt like it wasn't happening yet, but like you'd be hitting roadblock after roadblock after roadblock, resistance, Yeah, just not feeling like it's right. Yeah, and I've failed failed, But then one more door would open or this thing led to this, and so I just kept hanging in there, whether it was following it, yeah, being working at a label, working at a publishing company, being whatever. It was just like staying in music. There was just always a door that

was open. So I've all like, if God wanted me to not be doing this, he would have closed all the doors and I would have known. So it's just like trusting him, going, Okay, you you want me here, so I'm going to do it for myself and for you, you know, and if if you don't want me here, I will know it. And do you believe that he would have opened another door somewhere else? Do you believe in your heart that he will guide you with the

doors if you trust him? And sometimes those doors closing are it's like a pain horrible, Yeah, painful road, yes, and it's not like he makes it all shiny and pretty. And sometimes sometimes a lot of times I fight it, you know, like I'm like, no, I don't want to do this, you know, but I just feel like you

you have a gut feeling that's always right. And sometimes we have that gut feeling and we know it, but then our mind talks you into something else, and so you just have to have faith that that's the right decision, you know, in the right path. So what has always been your goal? Ultimate goal? Because all these career journeys that you've been on that have been so amazing, like in have ultimately like it's been, they've all led to

where you are now. But what was your goal always from the beginning, I've always wanted to be a songwriter.

That was it. Not even not even singer, Like I mean, I wanted to be a singer, but if I like, my heart was songwriting, and I wanted to make music that people would hear and be affected by because music's helped me so much in my life going through whatever you go through, there's always music, and so I just thought, God, if I could do that, you know, if I could make music that touches people that would just be everything

I want. How did it feel when you were nominated for Song of the Year with she Don't Love You She's Just Lonely with Eric Paslay Crazy? But that like all your dreams coming true? Yeah, it really was. That's so personal for you. Yeah, And I think to the same thing, like with your mind, you struggle with like oh my god, I don't deserve this, or like how why am I here? How you? But then you're like, wait, no,

I do I do deserve this. It's the same thing where you kind of second guess yourself, and I think that's kind of a probably a struggle for a lot of people. It's like even when stuff comes to you're kind of like, ah, do I deserve this? Am I really that good? I'm not, No, I can't be it. That was just luck, or you know, you just kind of always second guess yourself, so you kind of have to sometimes just enjoy the moment and say, you know what, I do deserve myself. I mean, I do deserve this.

And it's so funny. I heard a um An interview that Shania did, and they were interviewing her in this big, beautiful house that she got and the interviewer was like, do you ever just like look around and think, oh my gosh, how did I get this you know house? How how did this all happen to me? And she goes, no, I know exactly how I got this house, Like I know exactly all the work that it took to get

me this house, you know. And I love that because it's probably not the answer that you want, but it's like, no, I worked for this. You know, this didn't just fall into place, like I worked so hard for this. I love that. I thought that was struggle, Like I struggle with just feeling like I'm I mean, I think you're way more confident than I am, because you've got that iron trap mine. But I struggle with not feeling like

I'm worthy of things. And I don't know what that is because it's I just feel like I always second guess myself that I'm not good enough, Someone's better, and there's always someone Like some people are just so confident and they're just like, this is me. I've always meant to be here, this is my role, and I don't care. I'll do whatever it takes. But me, I'm always like, oh my gosh, did they know I'm here. This isn't the mistake. They're going to find me out and I'm

gonna get kicked out. Oh my gosh. I seriously feel the same way. I think it's I honestly think because you have empathy or an empathy for me too, and like we're always we care so much, you know, and we're worried about other people, and we're like, do I deserve this? But there's people out there that don't have it,

and like why am I getting it? You know? And I think that that's a lot part of it, too, is that you really feel like you're you're not just taking it going, Yeah, I deserve to be here, Like you're like, oh my gosh, you're working for it, and you feel you feel for other people, you know. I wish I didn't like that sometimes do you me too? I wish I hated animals. Jane and her mom story.

One time, Jane and her mom were in a grocery store and they spent like two hours chasing a bird out of the store because they didn't want it to be trapped in there. I probably shouldn't be telling this story because it's documented, But the other night, it's like animals find me because I know you'll save it. Yeah. So I'm driving down my street to get home, and I went to meet Jackie out for drinks, and I had had two drinks. And I normally never drink and drive.

I only uber, like I will uber everywhere, but this was so close. I was like, Okay, I'm just gonna drive home. I've had two drinks and I'm driving home and there's a baby raccoon in the middle of the street and it's not moving, and I'm like, oh my god, here and this has happened to me with possums. I mean, I'm the one that stops and saves them. And so I'm stopped on the side of the road and these cars are like rushing by, and I'm like stopping traffic

to save this baby raccoon. And I'm like if a cop comes, like I'm going to get a d I could either go home right now and leave the raccoon and not get a d Y, or I could stay here with the rab coon and like risk getting a d U. I even though I really don't think I had enough, but I remember having that thought where I'm like, screw it, I'm gonna get going to get a d what would you do? Oh god, it was I called every animal thing. No one was answering, and it wasn't

moving even when you walked up to it. No. And then I did something dumb and pet it because I was like, maybe it will let me take it, And so I pet it and it hissed, but it didn't bite. So I got hit by a car, I think so. And so I've read on all these like um websites that you go back and you get a box and you cover it with a blanket and pick it up and um. Then I could take it to an animal

place the next morning. But by the time I went back, I went and got my box from a wine that I bought, had a big old box of Camus perfect. The raccoon was going to go into camus box. And by the time I got back at the head, I don't know, walked away. I don't I don't know. I wasn't there anymore. That's good, you know, hopefully hopefully it's okay. Maybe you woke him up. Yeah, maybe I woke him out. But that happens to me all the time. It happened to with the possum too. On that same street and

I waited there in the rain. It was when we were having an ice storm and it was just happening, and I was just getting poured on and I just sat with the possum until the animal control came and got him. So that's how crazy I am. I don't think that's really sweet. You like chase stray dogs around the neighborhood. They still waking up looking at the sites to see which strays are missing, and like chasing him down. No, luckily, because I'm not home enough to do that anymore. Yeah,

but my mom has taken one. Oh she's the same way. But bo, Now it's like I rescued a pit bull and somehow we got him to California on a plane when they wouldn't allow pit bulls. I'm covered in mange. I mean, oh my gosh. And so we got home to Malbou and now he's living the life on the beach. Yeah God, okay, So tell me how you've gotten to where you are now. So after start off tennis, he started off moving doing solo things. We got together, we

formed a band, an Amazing Race. Then you also, after Amazing Race, you were pursuing another band for a little while too Yeah, I wasn't. It was called Darling to Nappy with Josh and he's an incredible double player. But Um, I just kind of, I guess, just kept writing was

like the main thing. And then that Eric Passley song really kept me going because my publishers signed me again because of that, and so UM and then Benny Brown, who was head of Broken Bow at the time, he saw Naomi sing and he had heard about my songwriting and you, and that's kind of how it all happened. Really, songwriting. I feel like it's kind of what Yeah, and then Um joined that band which has been away June, and that was five years ago. Five years six years ago,

I think five years ago. That's crazy. But even that, I mean, it's been a long road for us. I mean we have this is our third single, and girls that kept Maren came after us, So many girls came after us, such as Skyrocketed, and we just have been like waiting for waiting for the moment that we're gonna make it. And uh, finally this year we've had We just had our first top ten. We did break history

with your first single, which we wrote together. So I was still lucky and grateful to be a part of that. And so Caroline and I wrote Lipstick, our first single together, and also our title track of our albums Roses. It's beautiful. It's my favorite song on the album. So y'all were breaking history though, even though you didn't have like a number one or top ten or whatever. You a trio, a female trio hadn't had a top twenty five, and it was crazy. So that was like, Okay, you're already

getting some cred then, and we were. We were getting awesome, Like we got nominated for UM a c M New Vocal Group with a year or two times. We were getting you know, recognition, Yeah, recognition UM. And you know, I think for us just being out there grinding it out on the road and figuring out like what we like to play live, what people like to hear live, it just took a lot of growth on the road

for us to get to where we are now. And I feel like now you could just put us in any situation and we're like, we've been there, done that. We could play anything. We could have any sound problem, any whatever problem could happen, and that nice to be at that point. Yeah, and it feels good because you're like, you know what I worked for this, you know, I feel I feel confident and comfortable. Comfortable because I've been in this situation a thousand times before, three now know

how to work together in all situations. And also like having people like Carrie who Underwood. I forget that You've been on tours Carrie Underwood all year. It's been amazing, But having people like her, she just kind of give you credit, like her stamp of approval that just means everything. And I feel like that all the people John Party that did it, all the people that have helped us in our career, it's just kind of like little things that have gotten us to this point, and it's just

it's a crazy feeling. Feel very grateful for the community and like the people that have reached out and helped. And I feel like we could do that too, you know, like every every female too, especially that kind of breaks through. I feel like we're breaking down doors for people up and coming new artists behind us. You know, is it hard being a female Encountain reason? Do you feel that? I don't. I don't think it's hard because we're kind of in our own world and we just go play,

you know, we do what we do. But I think when you look at the charts, you definitely see like this is there's a definite lack of females on I think there's three females right now in the top thirty. It's Us, Carrie and Miranda, and it's just like it's that's not enough, you know. So I don't think I

don't necessarily feel like it's hard. I just feel like there's an obvious lack of um female airplay and also not just radio but unfairs and festivals, you know, and and tours, and I just feel like, um, we all have been talking about it so long, but like we need to just start doing stuff. Like Carrie, she just did it. She's like, I'm taking two female acts out on tour, you know. And I feel like that's the next step. I feel like for this year and next year,

just everybody like starting. Yeah. So the conversation has been had and it's it's tired, so now let's just do Yeah. Speaking of top thirty, though, has it feel to have that top ten single? It feels amazing. I mean I will say, when y'all came out and buy my own drinks, I was like, if this song does not go all the way. Then I'm shocked. I have your voicemails saved because I have, I have deleted all my voicemails, but I specifically saved that one because it was one of

the coolest voice male voice messages I've ever gotten. And she called and she was like, Jen, this is the one. This is the it's the one, and I haven't I'm like, yeah, I'm going to keep it forever. And you were right, you well, it just felt so good. It's so positive and it's women empowerment, but it's not male bashing. We love our men, you love your men, but you also

freaking love yourself. And it's like you're just able to have a great time and do your own thing as as you are with or without a man and friends. Like the beginning of the line, it was like I called my friends, they can't go out. Like it's like, you don't need your friends, you don't need a man, you don't need anyone to make yourself happy. You can make your own self happy. And it's saying just for the night, like you know what, I'm still not over

this guy. I'm just gonna be by myself tonight. I'm not going to just jump into something else. You know. It's just like I think you said it best. You said it's self love. It is self long about self love. My favorite line that could be my own boyfriend. I was like, I can be my own boyfriends. Like, yes, you can't be your own boyfriend's and you should be

your own boyfriend. Seriously, just die. Every time we sing that line, we just know what's going to happen in the crowd and it's so and the guys love it too. They're like, heck, yeah, yes, everybody left it. It's so good. Oh, it's so I'm so happy for you and just like your whole journey to get here and to have stuck with it and to never give up, to stay mentally strong. It's just a testament to don't give up. It is if I can do it, because you made that you

were twenty three, twenty three years old. So how many record deals have you had? Three? Three record deals mixed with a million jobs and song pucker radio rep. I mean, we've done it all you too, But it's just like you could have easily quit any of those times and just been like this is too hard, I'm not going to do this. I wanted to. But what kept you going because you knew that you would get here? Did

you know you'd get here? I did, and I didn't. Like, I feel like, you know, you have to know, Like I said, it's in your gut. You have to know that you can do it, but your mind will be like, oh, but you really can't, but you're like, no, I can. But you had to know a lot. At least you had to know pretty strongly, because this is a hard thing to keep going for if you don't strongly feel it.

I think I'm just stubborn. I think I'm very sor But I really truly believed to that, like I was telling about my faith and God, if if my journey was going to change, even if I wasn't going to make it how I wanted to make it, it was going to lead me to what I was supposed to be doing. And that's really what I believed. Even still to this day, it's like, whatever I'm doing now is for a reason. I'm here for a reason and I'm on the right path, So you trust it. Yeah, I

feel like you have to or else it's impossible. Do you kind of like being in an industry that forces you to trust that much in God. Yeah, I mean for me, that's everything. And I feel like, especially country music, were like a family and that's what's so special about it. And we talk about God, you know where in this day sometimes it's not the coolest thing to talk about, but yeah, faith is so important and I've like this whole community kind of embraces that, and I think it's wonderful.

What's one of the moments that you think about back on your life that just makes you smile from ear to ear and brings you so much joy when you think back on it. My dogs, every time I rescued a dog. That's really, honestly the truth. I like that's

also a songwriting is what I love. But I really want to make a change for animals, and I would love to start a sanctuary for old dogs that get kind of thrown out when they're older, and I just want them to have like a good life at the end, you know, and be loved at the end, because I think that's everyone adopts new dogs and new peppies, but all the old ones kind of get left behind. So

that's what I want to do that. I got to make some make some money to do that, So that's like yours, that's your charity want to and it's always been dogs. Yeah, And I love kids obviously, I mean kids, kids and dogs are everything. But I feel like God definitely put dogs dogs in my heart for a reason because probably so many people have kids on their heart, you know. I think you definitely put that on my heart for a reason. What does success mean to you?

After everything you've seen growing up with John Wyn as your grandfather, Like, you have seen success and you have been on your own journey of major highs, major lows. What is success for you at this point? Not giving up? Seriously? Like to me, when I look back, I'm so proud of myself for that. Obviously there's all these accomplishments that you create that you've that happened. But for me, I'm like, Wow,

I never gave up. And that success you know you could have to fail, is to not get up when you do fail, you know, and failing is a part of success. All those things lead to it. So I feel like not giving up, it's like, that's that's the coolest part. If you had to pick a song for your theme song of life, what would it be? Oh? My god, well, my favorite song of all time is Don't Worry Baby by the Beach Voice, And I'm a

worry word everything you do everything? No, I mean, I guess it's crazy, but you don't seem like you were. Youre's an internal warrior. You don't speak your worries. No, I just in my brain just think about every single thing that could ever happen. What like natural disasters like dogs, your career, Yeah, what everything, dogs, career, my mom, every friends, I mean, just is everything? Are you on constant replay

with worry? Yes? Jin your faith is so strong. I know when I battle with God, I have battle with that the most. That's my wine really helps me. But it's so funny that song William I was engagement and he asked me to marry him during that song, and so now I'm like, yeah, so it kind of ruined my favorite song. So my goal is to now find a moment with that song that can change that memory. So I think that's what I got to figure that out.

What is love to you now at this point after all the things, because you've had you're so loving and you've had a lot of love and friendships men, I mean you've you know, you've you're a loving person. What does love mean to you obviously been engaged? Um, I don't know. I guess love means being kind and caring, and um, I think I think like you. Like how I was saying you're in empathy, I think I am too.

It's just you know, I'm always wanting to help, wanting to help people, and I think sometimes that's gotten me in trouble because I find people that I want to help save, and yeah, you have to save them exactly, Like, Oh, I see you deep down underneath all these terrible, terrible traits. Now. I don't know why, but it must be something because you see the best in everyone. Yeah, but it's a beautiful thing. But I just work on saving dogs now instead of men and save myself for a year or two. Yeah.

But I do think love is like, um, the first thing I can think of, its kindness. I think it's love is so much, but being kind to one another and caring for people and animals. Okay, so what's on your bucket list? Now that you are in a hit trio, breaking records on tour, carry you're writing songs are in the top ten. I mean, you're doing the deal. So what's left well bucket list. Music wise, it would be unbelievable to be nominated for a Grammy and win and

when let's just win it totally. But I just think having that honor would be just unbelievable. Um. And then non music wise, I really want to go to India. I've always wanted to go to India. I want to do a mission trip there and I just haven't been able to do it. But that's like I've been on my heart since I was a kid and I have no idea why. Um that, and I want to go see Machu Picchu, which you've done. That's all those are my bucket list. What's the great advice you've ever gotten?

My aunt basically saying don't give up. But she was like, listen, you're moving to Nashville. You want to be a solo singer. She was like, just a little advice for you. Take any opportunity that comes with music. She's like, don't not take it because it's not exactly what you want. She was like, if you get a red bike and you wanted a black bike, you can still ride a bike,

you know. And so I never forgot that because it was like, oh, maybe I wanted to moved here to be a solo singer, but maybe that wasn't my path. Maybe I was supposed to be in a trio, or maybe it was a song writ or maybe it was working for a record label, like whatever it was in music. She just said, be open to it, maybe not being exactly what you wanted, but be open to those opportunities. And I feel like I could have said no to so many because it wasn't perfect you had put together

in your mind. Yeah, and it was tough, you know, And but we said you and me said yes to everything that we did, say yes to everything, and my being here, all that stuff got both of us here, you know. So I think that was probably the best advice I've gotten. Okay, So I would like to keep talking to you, but I mean it's time to wrap up. I always end with leave your Light. So just all your journey that you've been on, everything you've gone through.

Obviously you've been inspiring us this whole hour. But what is something that you just want to share with people listening who maybe are lost right now, or who maybe are trying to find their dream, or who maybe feel like, I don't know, just they don't know what's next, or they're just looking for inspiration. What is something that you want to share that you have just that you think could help inspire people. I thought it's okay, Like it's okay to feel that way, because I feel like that's

a struggle for me. Is I feel like I have to be perfect all the time and that's just not reality, and that it's okay to feel that way. We all feel that way, and like, don't wallow in it, you know, just let yourself feel that way and and trust yourself, trust your gut, just keep moving forward. But I feel like we beat ourselves up when things aren't okay and when it's not perfect and we're not you know, feeling

like things are exactly what we want. I just think to tell yourself it's okay, like we've all been there, and love yourself. I don't beat yourself up. Love yourself. That's hard to do sometimes, it's really hard to do, yeah, because we see all the flaws when like I look at you and I'm like, what could you not love about yourself? The same? I feel like, and I feel like women, especially men too, but like we really do look at ourselves so differently than how we really are.

So I think it's a good thing to kind of practice loving yourself, and for me, I have to do it. It has to be like an intentional thing. Of course, I love myself. What do you do like intentionally if you look in the mirror and you're like, oh I look fat or whatever, I'm like, Wow, my legs, I can walk, I can run, I can my legs are beautiful, they're strong, they get me places instead of thinking that they're fat. Like, I intentionally change my feeling towards myself,

and and I have to. It has to be intentional because my brain will just go there, It'll just go to the negative about yourself. So every single day I just try to be intentional with loving myself. And like, would I tell that to my best friend? Like, no, what I think that about my What I think that about my mom or whatever? No, you just but yourself. You're so hot in yourself, So kind of being intentional about that? Why are we so hard on ourselves? I have no idea. I don't know. I hope it gets

better as we get older. I do actually do feel like it's for me gotten better. I feel like when I was younger, I just totally picked myself apart so much, and now I'm kind of like, you know what extra five pounds? Like the extra five pounds that Brittany Aldine posted did you see that? Was? That was my favorite? I'm like, those are extra five pounds at the moments you're having ice cream with your husband or pizza or have wine, it's like, don't be so hard on yourself.

And when you get older. As I've gotten older, I feel like it has gotten better. Like it's okay, we're not perfect. Nobody's perfect. I know, I know, yeah, mine is. I'm always scared that people don't like me really and everyone loves you, but I'm always scared that I don't know what it is that people just don't like me. That there's like they're like, oh, we don't really like Caroline.

Isn't that weird? Yeah, because everybody loves you such a light and you're like what you're doing, you're spreading light. You even end it with that, you know, spreading light. I think it's because I know my insecurities, and my insecurities feel ugly to me, so I feel like everyone must know them, and so like I'm like, oh, everyone must know my insecurities, and so since they know and they don't like me, but really everyone has insecurities. We

all do. It's crazy because I actually wrote a song yesterday with um My Man and and Well it's called pretty Beautiful, and it's saying like all these things that are beautiful are not on the outside. It's like, you're pretty strong, you're pretty heart, you're everything that's that's beautiful is on the inside, and we look so much on the outside. And so it's crazy. I we all pick ourselves apart, and what you're seeing is ugly is not

you're You're you. It's beautiful, you know. But you're looking at yourself going, oh my gosh, that's ugly, but it's not. It's you know. So we just gotta we gotta give ourselves grace. Don't be so hard on ourselves. I love that, Yeah, yourself, ourselves and for me being intentional with it, because it's like a practice every day, like be intentional with loving yourself. Gin Winne for president of being a worry word, Oh god, no, you'd be a great president. You'd save all the an,

most of the kids. We'd have world peace because you can lay that hammer down to I'm telling you it's good. Move over Trump, You're coming in well. I love you, Jenn, Thank you for coming on my podcast. I'm so proud of you. It's fun. It has it has been. This live journey with he has been great. It has been okay. I love you. Bye.