CAIT MADRY: A sober conversation with Cait Madry.

has now become something that's taken over my life. And I am no longer it's no longer serving me. I am not happy with the way my life is, with this particular substance or addiction or whatever it is that has taken too large of a role in your life. There comes a point where for some people, some people never hit this point, but there comes a point where you're like, you know what, this is not serving me,

and I want to make a change. But the problem is when you want to make a change and you've been living your life a certain way for a really long time and a certain kind of lifestyle, making a big change where your move something, let's say, alcohol out of it. It can be scary, It can be intimidating.

It can make you feel like you don't know who you are anymore, how to exist in social settings anymore, how to exist with your old friends anymore, how to even exist with your own life, Like sometimes you have to get to know yourself. Because I'm talking to Kate Madgree today. She is a host, actor, comedian, and sober now for over two years, and she is here to share this because you are in the heart of the entertainment industry, you're in the heart of alcohol, being at

the center of pretty much everything. And then you're fame and industry. And I also am in the country music industry, and it's the same thing. It's glorified, it's a part of everything. It's celebration. It's every country song is written about getting drunk, you know, and every every movie people are getting hammered. I mean, it's just like it is our culture. So when you take alcohol out of your life, it can be really scary, but you have done that,

you have taken it out of your life. And I was telling Kate my husband and I are recently almost one year sober on October eight, And it has been so amazing. But it is such a lifestyle change and a mental mindset change, and I am just so excited to talk to you about your journey, how you got here, why you got here, and the struggles that you've had getting here, and then also the payoff, like why it's worth it and what has been so amazing about making

this choice. So welcome Kate, Hi, Oh my gosh, what a fantastic rundown. I love all of that. It's so true. Wow. Well, let's just start with the fact that, like, yeah, it's a struggle, it's hard. So you touched on a really good point, which is that a lot of people never get to the places that we've had painted in movies or in songs of hitting rock bottom and blowing your life up. And that's great, and I think it's important to like know that one there's a good chance that

you're not going to get there and too. Kind of the evolution of that thought for me was I don't have to get there in order to step away. I don't need to blow up my life in order to become sober a non drinker. However, you feel like identifying and I love that phip before your life blows up, Like why not like check for some warning signs and

go ahead and like not get to the freaking explosion. Yeah, exactly, like if you hear that tick tick tick tick tick, and that tick sounds different for everyone of that bomb that's about to blow. For me in my life, I just felt so unhappy. I wasn't feeling like I had anything anything that was good in my life. I feel like I was letting it expire because I was so

absent and numb for the majority of it. And there's alcoholism in my family, and there are people with substance abuse or disuse order, and it had never really been like um labeled, handled even really spoken about. Like in my family, you had a big fight the night before.

You woke up the next day and you went to your mom's friend's house and you listened while they talked about how great everything was, you know, putting everything under the rugs, under the rud sweep, sweep it under the rug we do the floors of you have to bury it deep, like whatever you got to do to just

keep it all pretty. And but you know, I feel like that's sort of like the past generation a little bit, because I feel like I can feel such a difference with like mental health and really checking ourselves and checking our habits and checking our lifestyle, like that is so much more present and like our generation because I feel like even our parents generation like to go to therapy to unearth all these things that like we're like put

sweeping under the rug. It just wasn't the thing. And I feel like, do you feel like because I'm rabbit trailing And one of the things my listeners always tell me is they're like, stop interrupting your guests. Okay, so I want you to get back on track. But I wonder if your life has affected your families and like you making this change, if it's allowed them to step up. Okay, but go ahead. Yeah. So it's like, yes, question, it's one that's a perfect question, and I'll circle back to

what I was saying. But like, yeah, I don't know, I don't know. It's something I talked about in therapy. Sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, is my change gonna like in bactory family like in like a good way. But look, I didn't make my change to try to impact people that I felt could benefit from it. I really just focused on me. And that's really like the first tip that I could give to anybody out there

who's listening is like, be selfish with this. You are absolutely allowed to be selfish with your choice to become an on drinker. And look, the fact is is that, like when I was thinking about not drinking, and I think of fear that a lot of people have, especially when you're like I'm a twentysomething or all that is social life. I had a friend group, I had uh clubs and bars and dinners and drinks, and that was my anchor of my social life was drinking, as is everybody's.

But I think one of the fears is that you know you're gonna lose these friendships and these dynamics that you have, and and I think it's like okay to do that. In order to look further in you have to say no to other people to say yes to yourself, and that's like really okay to do um. So yeah, but then I guess, okay, now all wind back to what I was saying of I actually don't even know

what I was saying. Was you're talking a yeah, you're talking about your family and how like you everything was swept under the rug, like there'd be a big site like if people were I don't know if that was evolving drinking or whatever, but like you just kind of didn't acknowledge it. The next day you just sort of like, yes, go back into live hang out and everything's great and we got a rose colored glasses on tight we are rocket. Yes,

thank you, thank you. That's exactly true. And that's kind of how I learned to deal with my uh lack of control with alcohol. Of like i'd wake up, I'd be hungover. One first I'd throw shame really hard at the wall. And the wall is like the inner wall of myself shame, guilt, remorse. What would you say? What you showing negative? Like how could you do that? Why did you do that? Why would you get that way? Why would you say that? Why would you let that

guy smack your butt? Like why would you do all these things that you feel icky so ikey in the morning about um But in the moment you have nothing because hello, you're intoxicated. You for a reason, you have your wasted Do you have anxiety about what you said? Like do you like like memory like lapses like or you can't remember who you talked to you. What you said? Did you say something like did you divulge something that you weren't supposed to say? Did you talk about something

in a way that you regret? You know, it's like all that regret. Yep. See all of the above, all of it on a constant and I couldn't. I would try to put boundaries up, um, like, Okay, if I'm gonna go out tonight, I'm only gonna have like two drinks. Okay, it never happened. Or the two drinks that I had were like a triple. Okay, well that's technically I guess, only two drinks, but that's still sick shots alcohol girl.

And then guess what a bureau doesn't count? Like, there were just so any red flags, those tickings that I heard where I had enough experience in my immediate family or my actually you know, my family further out where I knew that these were all red flags of your gunna explode at some point, this isn't a healthy relationship. But where I was sitting is that I I didn't want to kind of admit that I was the ticking

because I wanted it to be different. So I was like, oh, this ticking is just like a metronome, Like I just got rhythm in my life, right, Like I'm reframing the way all these red flags. No, it's fusha, it's fusha. That's not read, that's fusha, and it's really in right now, I love a fushia flag. Yes, Like, how could I reframe it to make it seem like it was? So you're probably you're probably like, I'm really doing anything bad. I'm not like you. I don't know if you were,

but like you know, I don't have like majors. I'm just going out. I'm just partying. I'm just like having fun living my life like I'm not causing harm to myself or others. Absolutely, And I think that, yeah, I mean it goes back to what I was saying, like these rock bottoms that we see or that we hear in like songs and on TV, of just like thinking that until I get to that point, then I don't

need to address it. And the sad truth is that even if we go back to a generational point of view, I think that's how a lot of the older generations have thought. It's how they've been taught. You need to manage this relationship and you need to keep working at it, literally, like a toxic lover, like an abusive relationship, until you have a broken bone, and until it's like so bad that people are asking you about it to your face. You need to stay trying to make this relationship work.

That's the mines that we've had. Let's keep our toxic lover. Let's just keep let's just do what we need to make sure it's okay. Yes, until it's so bad that other people like, what in the actual f exactly to say that we're in a relationship, because really, the relationship status that everybody wants to have with alcohol is that they're dating. You don't really want to be married to it, because then it's a problem. You don't want to be an abusive relationship. You just want to be dating. You

want to be flirting and fun with booze. And the thing is is that for most people that doesn't work out. It doesn't, and it's okay if it doesn't. It's not

a youth thing. And that's another thing. Like when I was first really considering the idea of becoming sober, I read Hollywoodker's book How to Quit Like a Woman, and what it's just called quit like woman, not how to quit like Woman, but gosh, she made so many good points just from a scientific point of view, but really just getting down like I had never read or had anybody tell me because I listened to the audiobook because I can't focus enough to read, but so I literally

heard her voice say, like, you're not the problem. The problem is the alcohol. And once you realize and accept that, like, stop putting all the responsibility on yourself. It's an addictive substance. It's just legal, like it is literally just marketed really well.

There's really nothing healthy about it. There's no health benefits, like really breaking it down, and I think for me that was the first really big time where I was like, oh wow, I'd never thought about it like that because I wanted to be dating when I need to be dating things. What was the name of this book, Quit Like a Woman by Hollywoodtaker And I ad, Yes, it's so good. I think you'd really enjoy it. I mean, even though you've been coming up on a year, which

is like congrats. Absolutely. There's acts too that I don't remember what it's called, but it's so good. It changed his life. Okay, but what's the other book? You said? You had. I also read Alan Carr is The Easy Way to Quit Drinking Without Willpower, and that was uh pivotal in the way that I reframed alcohol. And he Alan Carr like wrote a book about how to quit smoking, and everybody like raised the one. This is the one that my husband read because it's like the Easy Way

to control alcohol. It's called Alan car The Easy Way to Control Alcohol because it lets you know that it's not like you said, it's not you, this is alcohol. And like you think that you need alcohol to be the fun guy, to have this charisma, to put yourself out there, but really you wake up and that's what gave you all the anxiety because you don't know what you said. You feel like you have to rely on

this thing. Yes, yes, even like what I mentioned earlier, like it's called wasted for a reason, and I read it from that book where it was like I want you to, like think of all the adjectives you used to describe yourself when you drink as much as you do, wasted, you know, intoxicated, And I really want you to think

about those words, like what is wasted? You're not usable, You're wasted, and why would you want to spend any of your life with it wasted, and it was just I get goose bumps because you know that resonated for me, and I don't know if that will resonate for anybody listening and for you, but I think if you just start looking for those little moments, if you're curious, and if you're like I'm actually open to my perspective changing. Wow, Now I can't picture a life wasted. I can't picture

a life intoxicated. And I used to literally operate from the place of how do I get there or how do I recover to get there yet? And it's just absolutely insane. I know you're in your first year. I'm coming up on um my second year. Actually I think it had said over two years, but it's coming up

on my second year November. And congratulations seeing you and my um my the first year, and I'm curious to know with you and your husband name, I mean, you can't speak for your husband, but for you two as a couple, because I also got sober with my girlfriend

at the same time. She's ten days after me, and having a spouse in that first year was so helpful, um, but it was also like real, it was a new dance because holy Molly, the feelings you feel it is Dr SEUs should write a sober book of the places you go, the feelings you feel, because wow, did you feel that way too? Like were you just on feeling overload?

So for me and I would love to talk to you about how you navigate this because when we got sober, I think I told you before we started recording, I have always known I'm not a good drinker, Like I'm really not a good drinker. And I want to talk to you about I wonder just say this allows so I don't forget about the little tick tick ticks that you hear before the ocean, like what those are and

how people should look for those. And I also want to talk to you about what you have experienced after your sobriety, like the parts of your personality that have you have met that you did not even know we're there. I think that has been and I know I'm I'm not going to speak for my husband, but I've heard him say this. He has experienced parts of his personality

that he had no idea were even there. Like all these new hobbies, all these new interests, like this work focus, like this amazing ability to pour into things that like he didn't even know he could. And I feel like I really gave up alcohol with him. We decided to do it together because it's never served me. I've never

been good at drinking. I've always been the girl who, like before I was married, I would get drunk to try to hook up with guys and then I would like yell at them for not falling in love with me,

and like I was like incredibly crazy person. I used it to have like confidence, but then my confidence would turn into share like absolute insanity, and so like I was, I would always have remorse because I was too scared to like date or like put myself out there with guys, and so I would get drunk and then I would just like go into the psycho mode and try to make out with people or try to like know why

how wet it was terrible? Or I would get yell at people that I love because I had all this like inner turmoil that would come out when I was drinking.

And so like I knew from an early age that I was not good at this, and I had already been trying to cut back, like I had cut back a lot from drinking because I knew if I got drunk and I lost control of my emotions in mind, like I always had to regret always, and it was always like from being mean, Like I would be like mean to someone or like yell at them or hurt someone's feelings or do something like trying to make out with a guy or yell at him or something, and

I was like, it was never positive. It was never a reflection of who I wanted to be, what I really wanted. I was desperate for love. I was desperate for someone to love me. I was desperate for someone to see me. And I didn't feel like I knew how to get my personality out, and so I was relying on alcohol to do that for me. And it never did it in the way that I wanted to because it was like a freaking freight train and I so I always had regret and always had a remore.

So I had already been trying to cut out alcohol for my life, and I cut back tremendously and I never really liked it. I never liked the taste of it. I hated doing shots, like I don't like that I can't drink too many beers. I get bloated, like I just don't it just alcohol has been rejecting me my whole life. And I was like no, no, no, I want you. I need to. So I was like trying to have this sexy relationship with alcohol and it is

never sexy, like ever. And so when Michael was like, hey, I'm ready to cut this out of my life, and he actually had like a he had a sexy relationship with alcohol. He was like fun and charismatic and like he was like he was never mean, he was charming. But then it just got it just became too much. It just you know, it just grows and grows. And so he finally was like listen, I'm done, and I was like, great, I am so ready to be done with trying to have it maintained a dance with alcohol,

Like it's not working anyway. So I was kind of already in the mindset of not having alcohol in my life because I've been not I already knew it was not a good fit for me. So I don't feel like I had to totally like relearn a lot because I already had like kind of taken it out. But being in a relationship with my husband and us doing this together like we did. It was like a new dance with our relationship. It's a new dance with like

what do we do for fun? Because we used to go to breweries and sit around and drink at breweries every time we were on tour. He's on the road on Tory, go find a cool brewery, sit around, like drink beers all day, and then go to a fun bar afterwards and get cocktails and dance, and it's like every thing. Or have a barbecue and have people over and have a grilla just to drink beer all day.

And it's just like you know, learning how to going to shows, going to parties, having friends, night dates, and everything was centered around alcohol. So figuring out how to create a new lifestyle where you can still be in situations where people are drinking, but it's just not the focus, you know. It's like not we're not having this event or going to this thing so we can drink and party.

It's like we're going because we're actually going to live, We're going to have an experience, We're going to like do something. It's made us so much more active, it's made us so much more adventurous. It's made us so much more well rested, you know how. But it has been a learning curve and there have been times where it's like, god, you know, like am I fun? Did I?

Did I forget how to have fun? Like? You know, totally to tell me about you and your experience because that's us at a nutshell, But like, what has happened with you in these almost two years with Like you're in the entertainment industry, you're an actress, you're a comedian, you are hosts. Like what there's alcohol all over that stuff? What have you What has life been like? And what has it been like with your girlfriend and like y'all like rehabenting yourselves as a couple? Like what tell me

your journey? Like? Because that's what I feel like people are so afraid of is what we're talking about, is like who am I going to be? Can I do life anymore? While I lose all my friends? While I lose myself? So what is your walk been like? And when was the moment when you knew the tick tic tics? Okay this, I want to set this up, the tik tik tics when you knew I've got to do this before the bomb explodes? And then what has it been

like in this uncovering of the real you. Okay, So the tik tik tics were my my girl now girlfriend and I had been friends for like almost four years, and all of our I'd never dated a woman before. I was like curious, never really thought about it. We would drink split a bottle tequila when we'd hang out and we'd make out, and I was like, oh, this

feels different. I love this. And eventually, like through COVID and through everything, we started hanging out with each other more and more, and basically we fell in love over tequila and that love is real and that tequila was real too. But it resulted in like not knowing really how I felt about a lot of things because I feel so sure in the moment because you're hammered, and that I'd wake up the next day with anxiety and

did I say that? And do I feel that? And just honestly like kind of shaming myself for my own sexuality because I had never been introduced to it in like a sober sense like I would always been when I was drunk. And but I knew that I was in love, like because it was a love that I had never felt before. And when we decided to go forward and like start you know, dating and taking things slow. Alcohol was very much still we were like a throuble

with boozts. Well, you needbably needed alcohol because you've never you've never dated a girl before. You're stepping into territory that you're probably scared to it lists to do because I'm sure like even though you live in l A and you're very progressive there, I'm sure there's still like that internal like fight that you're fighting. Was like I wasn't raised like this, This isn't right, Like I you know, I'm not supposed to do this, Like what are people

going to say all that stuff? You know, like how do I navigate telling my family? What? What is the response going to be? How do I handle it? And then I also like, honestly more than that, I was like, Wow, I don't want this friendship to like spoil because this isn't going to work out. And the chaos that ensued when drinking because of that insecurity was just like turbulent, like through and through, and so we were like building

this relationship on really unstable ground. And I went to go meet her family over Thanksgiving and was like taking shots to tequila in the closet in the gas bedroom and letting the mom just poor, poor poor Rose, I mean rose and tequila, awful mix, um whether you should be so where not, Like, don't do it, it's awful. And also that's something to notice too. It's like you're nervous, so you're doing a secret shot in the closet, but you can justify and said, this is nervous, this is

nerves this helps me. But those are those tic tics, Like it's like if you have to go off to calm yourself down with alcohol, that is a red flag. It is totally a red flag. I think it's so much. It's like, um, the way that everything is marketed. Like even now, I just saw a beer commercial. I don't even remember the company and I won't even shot them out, but like a beer commercial that literally put two people who were nervous about something looking at each other and

then grabbing a beer together. But that's like the worst, terrible way to say drink or terrible to people who just got dumped at dinner with the same beer company. Two people just got jumped at dinner. The people who dumped leave, they share eyes. Now they're having a beer together. It's just toxic everwhere. And the thing is, it's everywhere

in society. Alcohol. It's like there's so many things that are actually good for you, that are like marketing, that people think are terrible in life, but it's like the worst thing ever. Alcohol is glamorized in every situation, even like when you have a baby toasted champagne. When you get married, you're toasting champagne. When you're heartbroken, you go get Joe drink if you're feeling It's like every big

moment in life, it's like throw alcohol in with you. Yeah, do it to cope or do it to celebrate, and so like when you just do it, where I was just just to do it, Yeah, exactly. Nike slogan for a booze um like and it does got to feel like a Nike marathon, like you're just concert. I mean where I was at it, I felt like I just never it was like a long game, like you're tired and you're run out, but you just grab another and you keep chugging along and then you get your super

powers kick in and you're ready to rock again. Yes, yeah, it's exactly that. Runners. I was just like the tequila shots like doing what they they do. But anyways that you put yourself, you take all of that knowledge of the marketing, and it's always around and there's always a quote unquote solution to whatever problem. And Sarah and I got into a huge fight in bathroom and her family heard it, and it was just like off it was on Thanksgiving. It was awful, awful, awful, awful, over like

the dumbest stuff. Like I look back and I'm like a girl that did not deserve like a kaboo. But that's what alcohol does. It's like it's all those tic tic tics will lead up to like a different blowout boom, And for me, that fight was my boom. And I had other mini blowouts just internally or how I saw myself or just the anxiety that I was feeling that led up to make that that explosion the most impactful

for me. But I woke up the next day so hungover, so embarrassed, and I just was like, I'm ruining anything good in my life because I am so focused on escaping the parts of my life that I don't like. So I could either keep it up and like will continue to blow up anything good, or I can take a real shot at this no put intendant shot, and I can try to not be so absent and numb that I can create a life I actually want to be present for all the time. And so that's what

I did. And it sounds so pretty and wrapped up, and it took a long time to get there, like I'm still trying to get there. I think you do as you learn more about yourself and you uncover more things. It's always a learning. But that was my tic tic tic, and I think for anybody who's listening, like the things that I look back on and I realized were my tic tics that I didn't realize in the moment. Was

like one, I tried to make my drinking productive. So if I could make it entertaining, if I could get a beer or tequila shot and record a video while doing it, or think of jokes while I was doing it. If I tried to make my drinking productive, that was like one big tick for me. Um. Another thing is

like the and I really didn't realize it. And I'm sure you you are to Like how you mentioned you don't realize how many events in your life are completely revolving around drinking anything, anything exciting, happens, it's like, let's grab let's grab a SHOT's grab a drink, let's go celebrate.

And also though I feel like for me and I'm okay once again, you're sight like I'm not going to sea from a husband, But I just know that as a couple, it is so easy to when you hit something that feels stressful or like as a person from like when you hit something that feels stressful, when you hit something that feel like that triggers you from something, you know, one of our limiting beliefs that we have like wrapped around our whole existence that we have to

like buy into, or something that triggers us. It's like as soon as you get that feeling, that anxiety that like, oh my god, like this feeling is so heavy, it's like, oh, let me have alcohol that will relieve it. You know. It's that instant relief of anything that boils up that's it feels like it's uncomfortable. It's like, oh, I know alcohol, Yeah, it's numbing. It's numbing, and I think it's why it

becomes really addictive. And I think it's why it becomes really really You can become super easily dependent on that numbing and really like the misconception that I had when I would try, because they did try sobriety in small doses and I failed because really all of my um, well, I wouldn't say failed. I guess that's a hard way to look at it. These are these are all things like I think about, you know, like how do you frame relapse, missteps, circle backs? It's a salsa, Like we said,

two steps forward, one steps back. You're still dancing as long as you're still mindful and you're still trying. If you're capable of trying, you you're capable of completing. So I just when I was trying and not at the result that I am today when you were trying to

get sober versus when you are sober. But I will say too for me and Michael, like when we got sober, we knew like it wasn't like oh okay, let's just take a little break, let's try to detox, let me try to cut back, let me try to let me try to balance this, let me try to have control over my drinking. Let me you know, look like you said, let me do my to drink minimum, like we've done that before. All that, but like this time, it was

like this is it is over. We are done. It is a lion on the sand, like the feeling it was so done that it's like if we don't, if we are not done with this, and I am choosing to let my life explode because I have chosen alcohol over having all the good things in my life anymore, because it is it was so apparent that like what was something that started off as fun and secretly you don't realize it. It was numbing to like for me to like avoid my what, I would drink and get

drunk and hammered. I wanted someone to love me. I wanted to be seen. I wanted to be able to put myself out there. It was all for like love and to be validated. But it never translated like that. And so it's like it's always for something. You're doing it because you need alcohol to help you get somewhere, whether it's like get confidence, make yourself feel set, like you're talking about this beer commercials, like you're feeling all nervous.

Get drunk now you can go flirt, you know, like whatever it is, or you're feeling nervous like with this interview, take a shot and you're nervous, will go down. It's all you're using. We're using alcohol to cover something up. We're using alcohol because we don't feel like we can do it by ourselves, or we're not good enough by ourselves, or we're not funny enough by ourselves, or we're not charismatic enough by ourselves, or we can't like we won't be able to ex secute whatever we want to do.

We're gonna fail short, we're gonna fall short, because the alcohol is what's going to take us over the edge to really be able to land the deal. So then you get in the cycle, it's like I have to have this or I can't. I can't show up and I can't be great I can so when all that's

a lie. But so it's like once you know that it's a lie, and once you see the destruction happening in your life and you have a moment like you had and like we've had, it's like if you continue on knowing what you know, that it will destroy your life because there comes a point when you realize it and you know it, and if you push on past that point, then you have and I have friends in the music industry and friends in general, who know who. It's not fun anymore, it's not good anymore. It's now

they're controlled by it. They have had the explosion, but they're still in it because they can't get sober, because it's so freaking hard, because it is and it does wrap you up in its claws. I have I see people's lives going down the drain. I have seen friends get divorced over alcohol, alcohol, because alcohol plays this huge role in their marriage that like it blows up the marriage, you know, because everything good is totally thrown away in

these moments of drinking. And if that's happening all the time, like I've seen people choose alcohol, not choose be subject to the addiction of alcohol, and I see it ruining lives and like like you're saying, like I know, like that could have easily been us. And if you get to the point where you know your life is gonna be ruined by this, it is you have to make the decision. And it is the hardest decision ever, and it it is it's choosing you, it's being self as

it's rewiring your whole life. But like otherwise you are going to blow your life up. It's going to happen. It's inevitable. Alcohol will ruin your life if it, if it has a grasp you in its claws like that, it will take you down. There is no other way. Yeah, I agree. I think that what I was thinking about when I totally lost my traded thought is like I'm

want to change it. No, I mean, go go. But the part that I think is so like h sneaky is the numbing part of alcohol, because I think, like what you just said, you could blow up your life and you can ruin all these things, and you stay on this toxic track long enough, it'll happen. But when you're numb to all of it, you don't really care.

And I think that when I was when my first goes with sobriety, like I'm gonna do thirty days, or I'm going to try to do a whole like a six months, or I'm going to try like a week, because like I couldn't even do that at first, And it's okay if you can't too, because like you said, it's overwhelming and it's scary, And the reason for that is because you're not getting sober to stay up, you're getting sober to lean into those feelings and to know

how to manage it. You're ready to take control of that aspect of your life and not just shut it out. And I think that with that understanding and acceptance comes a smoother transition into making those choices. If you can know that you're going to feel a lot of feelings and you're gonna have to label a lot of things, and you're not going to have that bottle to numb it and stop it. And you're gonna need to do a lot of work to figure out what works for you to numb it and stop it in a healthy way.

Like I just was talking to Gil Teets, who does Sober Powered and she's so funny. She's like the things that make you roll your eyes, the eye rolls, So you gotta do the eye rolls. You've got to do the like breathwork, you gotta do the like yoga, you gotta do the running. You gotta go on a walk, you gotta read a book, you gotta take a meditation. You've got to do things that people roll their eyes at. But that talk to somebody numbing You've got to talk

to somebody. You've got to build a community because you have to do or not thrive in isolation. And you've got to build. You've got to build a community around you. And maybe that looks like he ay, and maybe that looks like a support group, or maybe that just looks like another sober friend or spouse or neighbor or mom from p t A. Like, you build your community and however you need to do, that is for you to do.

And I think, like, like we've said kind of throughout this with multiple things, that the old way of thinking that there is only one way or there's one path for me, does it really true? Like I believe that however you get there, you get there. However you tango, you tango, listen to music to be present and be willing to get out on the floor and stay out and the floor that is sobriety in life. You can

do it. You will eventually get it down. It will become rhythmic and you can like evolve and invite other people in and help guide people on your dance. Like, but first, get out on the floor. Focus and don't be afraid to fumble, because you're already fumbling. If you're waking up hungover one day a week, you're fumbling your life.

You're already misstepping, You're already offer them, so taking risks and trying and again from just a healthier perspective, it's like it's just my biggest, my biggest advice and listening to I love how you got the tick tick tick listening to the tick tick ticks. And this is what I really want to encourage anyone. And I'm not like this sober advocate, like everyone needs to be sober, Like

I don't think that. I think alcohol can be a fun thing in life if you can handle it, and so, but the thing that I want to encourage people listening is when you know it's coming, when you know it's messing up your life, when you know you have debilitating anxiety and you have so much shame for your actions and you have so much shame for drinking, and it's like you're trying to justify it every which way, Like you said, work, put it into your work life, like

make it where it's like you know you have to have it where you can justify it. But like you know, when you know it in your heart that it has taken over and it is not healthy and it is starting to ruin your life. It's like you have to listen to that, and so I want to ask you their stigma. Everyone's like, but I don't want to be sober. I don't want that title. Now I feel like a loser. Now I feel like I have a problem or not a loser. But like now I feel like I'm not

a loser. You're actually the biggest winner ever by being sober. But it's like, I don't want that title. I don't want people to like not feel like they can hang out with me. I don't want the stigma of being, you know, an addict or having to be in recovery. I feel, you know, weaker because I couldn't handle it or you know, it's like all these things. It's like when people want to jump in, they feel all that,

what is your advice to that? And like moving past those thoughts, those fear thoughts that are going to keep you stuck in the cycle because it's gonna be like you got this, You've got this, girl, you can manage this, but it's really like you know you can't. But it's like changing your whole lifestyle and stepping into this new person and then having all of the things that you

were numbing out hit you at once. That's a lot because now you're having a Look, what did you do when you have to look at all these things that you have been numbing out for so long in the eyes and deal with them and feel them to your core and process them. What was that? Like? How did you overcome the stigma? But then what was on the

other side of doing that? Very hard work? And I want everyone to know, when you're doing this hard work, there's gonna be days where you feel like you can't do it, where you're struggling and you feel so overwhelmed by all of this that you're like, oh, I don't want to do this anymore. The sucks, you know. But like you pushed on and here you are so like, what is on the other side of pushing on, of hitting all this head on, all of your stuff that you've been trying to avoid, the stigma? What is on

the other side of doing that? Well, first of all, if you're feeling overwhelmed, that's okay, because everything you're saying is true. All those fears that you're scared of are true. But I think that what's also true is the result of losing friends that might honestly not be the best for you. Um, the reality of like what am I gonna do? What I won't be able to do the things that I used to do. Yeah, that is probably true, but guess what you can do a lot more So

every fee here is valid, true, overwhelming. I mean, I'm not gonna I just don't ever want to say like it's gonna be easy. You could do it, no problem,

Like it's a hard thing to do. But I would guess that how you're operating right now is probably harder navigating hangovers, missteps, the anxiety, the guilt, the shame, the bad self talk, the turbulence with your partner, the turbulence and your friend group, ums of self work, we have kids, like parenting, feeling like you're not showing up as a parent. All that shames, absolutely, I can I would bet that

all of that is probably pretty hard to navigate. And if you've been navigating that for this long, you can weather navigating sobriety and the hard truths that come with that and all of those fears, you are absolutely capable of looking in the eye and figuring out a solution to So what I had to do and for me, what helped me was just trying to go back to

understanding that I'm capable. I am capable of it. I am capable, and I might not know how right now, and there's a book for that, or there's a person for that, or there's a group for that, and I don't have to know the answers, but what I do know is that I'm capable. And you, like you said, you absolutely leaned into support. That's another thing. Do not isolate, lean in to all of the resources out there because

there are so many. Yeah, absolutely, and knowing what the support looks like is important because there are parts of sobriety, especially in the first year, where I feel like isolation is important for self preservation, like isolating from people who don't take you seriously, give you those labels that you're scared of having, um all of the things that you're fearful of, Isolating from people who are gonna you know, are going to give that to you, like peer pressure,

a stigma, but we're going to like an event that you know is going to trigger you to want a drink day back from that. You're right, don't do that in the beginning. But leaning into people who are have the same mindset that you either are at or want to be at is important. Like there's like the oldest saying ever where it's like you are who you surround

yourself with. And that's really true in sobriety. I think when you're the most malleable and vulnerable at the beginning, like your clay, and let the people around you that you put yourself with like be who forms like the pod or the face that you're going to be in. I don't know if that makes sense, okay, um, so like keeping a support system and I think really truly, like you know, you asked me earlier, what are the things that I like got to know kind of about myself?

What was like the coming home like so to say? And I think that's really what's on the other side of all this. I know myself way more than I've ever known myself. That includes the bad and the good. And I think that there's a power in knowing my weaknesses in a sober mindset because I don't feel owned by them. I feel like I know them. They're my neighbor. I like know that I'm probably want to get them out at a certain point. I don't want to live next to them forever. But they're not in my house

with me. My problems and my shortcomings aren't the only thing that I have. And when I was drinking, that's what I felt like. And I think that that like release of pressure and that deeper understanding is what's on the other side, along with nights that you remember and no hangovers and literally it can be as simple for so many people as just feeling are like just feeling better. You literally can not want to drink anymore just because you don't want to have hangovers. It really you are

allowed to have. It be that simple of an answer, and the fog lifting the fog, because when you are in the cycle of alcohol abuse, you're in a constant fog. It's whether like if you're like an alcoholic, where it's like maybe you just every time you drink you get hammered. That's the way one way of doing it. Where it's like, well, I'm not an alcoholic because I don't really drink, but then every time you drink you have to get black

out drunk, Well that is a problem. Or if it's like every time or it's like trying to figure out your day where it's like okay, let me wake up and like where can I figure out my first place to get booze in that makes sense, that can justified, and then so your weather and then the hangover phase into the trying to get the alcohol to like you're the hangover phase. Then you get to the sweet spot where you get a little tipsy and it's kind of fun.

But then Amana, it crosses over immediately into the dark place where it's like, gone too far. Whatever cycle you're in, it's yeah, it's totally just now where am I going with this? You can still like whatever area you're at, like you can step back from it, like you can set it down. You don't have to date something you don't like, like it's real, like that easy, you really don't. And like the fog, I think maybe what you were saying too is like it's you're going to have fog

if you have booze. It doesn't matter the level of fog. There are some people who literally can't see in front of them it's so foggy. And there are some people who are like is it foggy? I just need to clear my glasses a little bit, And it's like, oh, no, I guess it is foggy. Whatever, I can still go about my day. You're putting fog in your in your way, and don't you want to see you with clarity like through life? And if you don't, that's a deeper thing.

And guess what, when you're sober and you don't like the things around you, you're so capable of changing that, even if it's a marriage, even if it's a relationship, even if it's a house, even if it's the state you live in, a job of those day, a job, all of those things that like you wanted to numb or become absent from, Like cancent change with clarity? Yes? Yes? What?

And what I've realized too that has been like really amazing on my heart is I always knew I had, like my husband and I had a really beautiful group of friends around us, but us choosing to get sober, and we've actually had a couple of other friends choose to get sober too, But like realizing how like loved and supported and like how proud and how amazing all of our friends have been like on that journey and like just like so happy for us to like want

to like take this choice because it's making our lives better. It's like it really lets you know immediately, are you surrounded by good people who want the best for you, or are you surrounded by people who want you to be this certain way for their benefit of their habits and their lifestyle that they want to of and there some of their toxic toxic nous. It's like you really know really quickly. Are the people around me, like, are we all rooting for each other's well being? Or are

we all like helping each other's demise? You know, totally? Yeah. I think it's like a big thing. I mean, friendships are always, I think, like the biggest fear when you get sober. You're like, am I gonna lose all my friends? Or like what am I gonna do with my friends? Like friends and friends are so important. But like, if it's built on booze, it might sink, And that's okay. If it's if your relationship is boombooze and you decided to get sober and become a non drinker and those

friendships sink, that's okay. But if it's built on love, like the friends that it sounds like you're describing, then it'll always float to the top. It doesn't matter what you go through, It doesn't matter if you're not drinking it doesn't matter if it's built with love, and love is a foundation, um, and don't you just only want to have things around you built on love? Like to me,

that just sounds like that's what I want to. Let it sink, but it's ink, and let them maybe re regain their base at a later date, you know, just let it sink if it needs to. It's okay. Tell me about the first few months and then I'm gonna wrap up. Tell me about the first few months. What are absolute necessities to mindset necessities? What are how do you need to set your life up for success? Like?

What are like I would say the first three months, like, because I feel like that's probably really hard to get through those. What are your mindset shifts for success? And what how if someone really wants to take this step and really wants to get sober, but they're like, I don't know how to prepare my life for this, what would you be? What would you say to how to set up for this? How to set up for success for society? I think one accepting that it's going to

be a big change. I think that's the best thing you can do is to be really real and honest with yourself about the change that you're about to go through and that it will be better, but it's going to be a little bit harder first, um, harder to get easier. And I think also just knowing that nobody's journey looks the same. Sobriety is really like a fingerprint. It's so different. It's really unique to you, and it

also evolves with you. So the tools that you use in these first three months, if they're really hard, like let's say you do want to try a A and you like, are like, this is really helping me. It's not something I want to do forever. Great, that can be something that you evolve through. You can evolve to going to like a meeting or just talking with your sponsor, or if you don't ever want to try a A and you want to google, there's like a Sober Girls Guide.

There's so many different other alternatives, especially for women who like feel like they maybe not don't connect in a A as much. Um, there's tons of alternatives for that. So I would say in the first three months, just giving yourself grace, being really honest, and being willing to try all the tools that you can, um, not limiting yourself to anything. If it is there's a possibility that's going to help you. Um. I really suggest um pouring out or getting getting rid of all the alcohol in

your house. I mean, for me, it took me a month, um to do that. I didn't drink it, I didn't touch it. It was tucked away, And there was some power in waiting a month because they felt like, Okay, I had thirty days and I was like, this is for sure something I'm gonna do. And it was really but there's something really meaningful about pouring something out that for me was really symbolic and it might be really symbolic to anybody else out there. What do you do

when you hit a trigger? What do you do when you hit a trigger? Like? What what do you go to where you're like, oh my god, screw this, I'm done. I can't do it. But you know you're you know you're gonna you know you want to keep on and you will keep on. Like but you're inner battle saying you don't have a problem. Just go back to the way it was a lot. It was so much easier.

Oh my god, now, um, because that will happen, and it'll happen at any phase that it still happens to me this after almost two years, um, and it's okay and it's normal. So one I'd say, be like, take that voice and separate it from yourself and go got it. I totally hear you. I'm not going to do that, but I understand why you're saying that. And if you don't understand why that's happening, try to talk to that voice and be like, why are you saying that? Is

it because I'm bored? Is it because I'm anxious? Try to get to the route. And if you really don't have the patient's time or energy to have that conversation, because I get it, it's a lot. Um. My biggest tip is get a drink that you never drink, like maybe that's it. You go to the market and you get like a cherry vanilla cola and you only drink

those when you really want to have a treat. Or you get like a Lacroix, or you get a des Sas or a kin or any of these great non owl turn tives and save that as a special part

of your fridge. And when you're feeling triggered, say I'm going to have this drink first, and then I'll come back to see if I really want to have the other drink, And I would that money that if you sit and you drink any drink that has no alcohol in it, and you finish it in ten minutes, that trigger, if it hasn't fully gone away, it will subside and you'll be able to maybe have that conversation or get

ready to dig into why you're feeling triggered. So give yourself a sip and a second that doesn't have alcohol if you're feeling triggered, and then also of it. And what about also like calling someone who you know is an advocate for you and talking through it, or like putting on one of those audio books like you mentioned. Will you mentioned those titles one more time because I feel like that, Yes, put Like a Woman by Hollywittaker and Alan car is the easy way to quit drinking

without will power. You can absolutely put those on. I I also think a really suggestion is to just if you don't want to say it to a friend, Like let's say you're insecure about your trigger, it's really early on or it's later in your sobriety, and you're really embarrassed that you're having this strong of pull and you don't want to feel any shame. You can say it into a voice note. You can say it into a voice note, but get it out of your system, um, and it gets the power of it out. I love

that you are changing the world so much. And you have a podcast called Clearheaded. That's how much you are like committed to this message and this mission and it's called Clearheaded. Um. It's amazing. It's anywhere you can listen to the podcasts and it's all about like your real time walk with sobriety and your Sober Self Care podcast so everyone. So you have episodes all the time. You're

covering all sorts of topics. This is another great thing if you're wanting to get sober, listen to this podcast clear Headed, where you can join in with a real conversation with someone in sobriety, walking through it, going through it, having the struggle, sharing you don't feel alone. Like these outlets. This is an amazing outlet and that's it's they're out there like this is out there for people to have support. And thank you for creating the support. Absolutely, I'm so

happy to create it. I also have a website called clear headed dot com. We are working. I'm working really hard to give you all the tools to have your best alcohol free life. That means entertainment. What are good nonal cocktail recipes? What are great tools for your sober toolkit? So check out clear headed dot co if you want to spruce up your sober care routine. Amazing, I'm so proud of you, but for you, and how credible that

you took this leap. And the thing also on a wrap up was saying, is I feel like the and you said this too, but like the how capable you feel, and how proud you feel and almost like you and literally do anything you set your mind to if you can get sober and create a life for yourself that is truly your life and thriving. And yes, like we said, it's gonna be hard. You're gonna have all these mental things that you have to deal with, but you're dealing

with that a million times worse. You said it so perfectly. If you're if you're under the influence and you're living a drunk life like you're the shame, and the struggle is so much harder at least a sobriety. The payoff is you get to live this life that you were

meant to live. You get to you get to know yourself, You get to be present, you get to be a light, You get to be you get to know your own ability and your own capability and your own strength, and you get to be proud of yourself and look in the mirror and be like, I fucking love you, like you are a beast and a warrior. And yes there are some hard days, but like, look at what you can do, and that to look at yourself and to know that you can do that, I feel like it

translates into all so many other aspects of life. It's like if I can do this, it's just fear and like habits and like all these things standing in my way that I can get through. I know I can do this. Do you feel that it's just like free? Totally? Yeah, absolute freedom, and like you're just removing any kind of limit on yourself, your growth, your potential, and look, try it, try it and and and if you if you hate it, listen to an episode and we'll talk about it. I

always wrap up with leave your light. What do you want people to know? I will guess our message this whole time is that you're really capable. You are capable of coming to clarity and claiming it as your own and living life that you want to be present for. You're capable. Freaking love it. Okay, Cat Madgerie, thank you so much for coming on everyone. I'll go check out her podcast clear Headed your Sober Self Care and go to clear your Headed dot co. Is that right? Yep,

that's all right. Thank you so much for joining me. You're amazing. This is awesome. Thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah,