Bob DiPiero

could be adult content. Today. We have bobbed up Hero. He is one of the most amazing songwriters in Nashville. He's written over fift number one hits, He's written over ten top ten hits, and then over a thousand songs he has written have been cut for other artists. He also happens to be one of the funniest, most endearing, charming men ever, and he talks all about his journey to Nashville from Ohio. So interesting. Here he is welcome

Bob to Bureau. Hello Bob ro Hello Caroline Hobby. You got it right because you knew he was Caroline cut Berth. I did know he was Caroline cut Berth and now I know he was Caroline cut birth Hobbies, correct, Demondo. So this is a fun day and a fun way to start this interview because I got to hear this song you just wrote with Fancy, with Fancy and Ian Keggy, and it's called dirty Love, Dirty Love, and it lives

up to that time. Actually it's just called dirty. It's basically like, don't love me unless it's dirty, don't watch your love unless it's dirty. Hook up song. Well, yeah it is, but it's also I don't know, you know, it's a very sexual song, but it's also about I just want it all right? Where do you get your inspiration? Like where does the song like that come up? Do you do you walk in and be like, okay, I

want to walk up. I want to write about hooking up, but you don't have a stick around, you know, it would it would surprise you where that came from. It came from some deep conversation that I was having. You know that happens with Leslie, when my wife Leslie, and it was a very serious conversation. And what was it about. Well, it was about being honest with each other and uh being just letting it out, like sexually everything. Hi, Leslie? Oh sorry, Leslie? Comes, say how we're talking about you?

Come on, we're talking about on this podcast. We're talking about how dirty was inspired by you guys. Well, I was telling her it was inspired by a conversation we had that was not It was serious. It was a serious conversation. Yes, I'm not a dirty girl, adventurous girl, but listen, to keep a marriage spicy, you have to stay at venturous. Well, I get out, by the way, anyone listening Leslie Thomasina. Her name is Leslie Thomasina. Dapiro no is smoking hot. Bob has a rocking hot wife.

And she was just in the Vagina Monologues in Nashville. You were there, and you were in the vagina audience, and I was laughing. I was, I was, I was in the vagina. I never knew how much I loved vaginas until I saw you in it. All vaginas. We have vagina crushes on each other. There you go. Do you need to tell Bob something? Well I was going to tell him. I gotta go running over the other clients. Well, see you get home. Look how cute you guys are?

We okay, get that dirty love ready for when he's home. Okay, So it's inspired by a conversation. Yeah, And songs are usually to come about you have to get really deep. But that's I mean, what's interesting about co writing is that the subject matter might mean something to me that's totally different from what it means to my co writer. You know, where maybe Fancy was just thinking about some dirty love, but I was thinking about this other thing.

But you know, you put the minds together and something bigger shows up, you know. So we're sitting here in this room we're calling it the Bunker, which is your studio, and literally wall to wall of songs that you have written, like huge freaking hits. You've had fifteen number one, fifteen number one songs. Let me throw some of those out there. American made by oak Ridge Boys. That was your first number one song, first number one song in nine three. I was wow you were born, then I'm sold. Okay.

You're from a steel manufacturing center of Youngstown, Youngstown, Ohio, Youngstown, Ohio, which used to be Did your family work in steel? No, believe it or not, there were. We were one of the very few families who didn't. My my dad actually was a foot doctor, a pediatrist. Yes, he was a foot doctor. And my mom was a housewife. She was a stay at home housewife. Okay, so how did you discover this love of music because you also went to music college, I did you know, and you were in

hard rock bands, yes, or bands that I mean. I went through a series of bands, you know. But it started out, you know, like so many people of my age, my vintage, Uh, seeing the Beatles on TV for the first time, that was it. I was blinded by the light. I mean, it was just like, okay, I want to do that. What about that excited you? Well, the music was more like magic to me at the time. You know,

it's just how do they do that? And they were smiling and girls were screaming at them of course of course blooded American male, Yes, and uh, it was it was that. And so, like everybody else, I bought a guitar and went into the garage with my brother and some of his friends, and we had this not really good band, you know, and we played Beatles songs and and I it just never stopped for me. Yeah, I sang. I started out I'm going to tell you something you

don't know. I started out as a ROADI. I think I was the first official ROADI really for your for your brother's bandy my brother's band. Uh. They had gotten a New Year's Eve gig. I wasn't playing in that band, but I so wanted and and we were so young that none of us drove. So the drummer's dad came over to pick my brother up, and while we were waiting for him to show up, my brother was like, you can't go. He's really like, that's so it got You can't You're not gonna go. You're not gonna go.

And and Ralph Desimon was the drummer's name. His dad showed up and he opened the door, came in the house and goes ready to do. Yeah, how about you, Bobby? You ready? I'm not going? Well why not? Well, Don said I couldn't go. Of course you can go, come on,

and my brother's like dash. I just Thenity took the open opportunity and I just jumped in there and she started being the ROADI eventually got asked to be in the man No I. Eventually, while I was a roady, I eventually picked up a tambourine and I would kind of play it off to the side, you know, and I'd inch up a little bit more. I totally it's my way in the story of my life. Hey, but I mean, Bob, it's not like there's a whole lot of options in the steel town of Ohio, right. No,

there wasn't. But I was just in this. You're the I'm the younger brother, and I just I just had to be involved. I just had to be involved. So I was practicing guitar and doing all this stuff, and I just had to be involved. And that was so I got into a band. I got into that band, and and then he went to the music college. Did the band ever getting success? Or was that just like the gateway drug into the world? It was. It was

kind of a gateway drug. But that band went through several incarnations, and my brother and I were playing together, and then we started yet another band with the same Ralph I was telling you about, and another Ralph. We had Ralph and Ralph. Did you we should have? Oh we weren't smarter? That so much smarter? So you go to college, go to college after this band, and do you start really studying music? Yes, I mean the band.

You asked me if we had any success? We got hooked up with a lead singer who was also from the next time, but he was older than us, and somehow he had gotten some kind of for cocta record deal from from this very unknown label called Paula Records in Shreveport, Louisiana, and so somehow they didn't want a solo singer. They wanted a band. So he said, you're my band, and so we flew down to Shreveport, Louisiana and started recording, and nothing really came of it, excepted

I started to see a scratch. Oh man, I got a big old dose of it, and I loved every minute of it. So came back and and Youngstown State University, which is where I went and where I graduated from, had a small part of that school called the Danas School of Music and it and I was, I was just, to be honest, I was just trying to stay out of the army because they had the draft back then, and I was I was not into what was happening,

you know. So I just hung onto my draft deferment by going to school and I'm going, well, I'm here. I love music, and so I started taking music courses and I I was like so many musicians. I couldn't really read music hardly at all, but I had a really good I had developed an ear so that I could hear something, I could play it back, so I would fake a lot of but I just heard it, you know, and I could get pretty close to it. And so yeah, I went there and I started taking

really traditional theory and harmony. It's not like what we know today like Belmont offers here, just very contemporary music business, recording arts, all that stuff. It was just a real bag that traditional theory and harmony course. And I played in the jazz Man there, and I studied classical guitar, and I sucked at classical guitar because I'd sit there and start practicing these studies, and about twenty minutes in

I'd be writing a song. So that's when you discovered songwriting. Yeah, I mean songwriting came from for me being in a band. Everything sprung from being in a band because my heroes at the time were the Beatles and the Rolling Stones, and I'd read all their their album covers and I'd look and it was Lenna McCartney, Lenna McCartney, Jagger Richards, Jagger Richards, and these guys write their own songs. So, well, if you're in a band, you write your own songs. Okay,

I'm gonna write my songs. Were you good at writing songs in the beginning, I don't know. I know, I mean I was. I guess I could see that, I knew, I knew how it went, I knew how how the structure went, and I was I was really good at seeing images in my head, well just stories in your head kind of sort of or or to me, I always described as like a piece of d N A, you know, like what they do now they can clone as sheep from one little piece of d N as Like if I just got a title, that's somewhere that

I can grow the song from. Or if I just got a little guitar part, well that's another part I can grow the song from. Or we're talking about something and I get a feeling, well that's another piece of DNA that can grow a song. Imagination. I have a wild amagage very well, But you can grow a whole song from a tiny little nugget. I guess that's the best way to describe it. Yeah, I guess it is inspiration that you can grow it. Yes, I always say I I pray. When I pray, I don't pray for

a hit song. I pray for inspiration. Ohays, say, God, just give me the inspiration. I'll do all the heavy lifting. That's amazing. It's it's what I've done all this time. And I have friends and and they've got like the they've got like the secret recipe to coke that they just keep churning an app But for me, it's always I'm looking around. I think you have that sec your recipe. I guess. I don't know. It doesn't feel like that. It's always a new new feeling. I think that's the

sign of a true person who's not You're not. You're not satisfied as all you've accomplished, like you're still hungry for it. Like even though you are in the Songwriters Hall of Fame, which is huge, you've had fifteen number ones. Like, how many top tens did you have? I don't know, Honest to god, I don't know. You've written over a thousand songs that have been cut by Yeah, that's crazy, that's stupid. I've written too many songs. No, that's crazy.

You have your you have a star on the Songwriters Walk of Fame, Nashville's Walk of Fame in between Jimi Hendrix and Barbara Mandrell, which I always said pretty much is exactly where I'm at, somewhere between Jimmy Andricks and Barbara. I love that. Well, So, Okay, you're in this band, you start writing songs, you go to school, you keep continuing your craft. What is a moment where you're like, I'm moving to Nashville to be a songwriter. I was

in college, I was playing in bands at night. I was given guitar lessons in the late afternoon to pay the rent. And uh. I had some neighbors who lived in an apartment where I was living, and they were also songwriters, and but they were really and then they were really songwriters. And they started talking about going to Nashville. So I heard this week, why would you go to Nashville?

Not at all? I mean I knew zero minus zero about country music, honest honestly, there were I don't remember any country radio stations up there, or maybe I just didn't want to hear. I only listen to Top forty radio and rock and roll. You know, That's that's what I listened to, you know. And and so to make a living. I would sometimes I go to the only

recording studio in Youngstown, which was this Polkas Studio. Youngstown is very well known for their polka bands, if I had to, I mean, I'm not saying that I don't like polka, but actually there's many Grammy winners come from Youngstound, Ohio because it's doing polka. So fact, there's a fun fact right there, Like rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Oh yeah, that's like trickling down in the Ohio area.

Oh absolutely absolutely trickled down. And during all this time, I would go out to the bars at night and listen to the rock and roll bands, and I saw Bob Seger playing in clubs, and I would see the James Gang with Joe Walsh playing in clubs. And I'd come home and I go, I'm so screwed. If every little talent Youngstown has got guys like that, I got no chance. But it really informed me what excellent really was.

Started off seeing great right away, yeah I did, and it really was well and and me and me thinks you're really good, you know, but and that makes you feel good, But what is good? You know? And even going to school and learning the true theory of harmony inform me what was really exceptional. So I got that in my head. Okay, that's that's what exceptional is. Joe Walsh is exceptional. You know. Bob Seeger is really really good. You know, did you from the beginning put pressure on

yourself to be one of the greats? Like? Is that the category that you were striving for? Is that the company that you like? Nothing below that great status would work? Is that where you set your bar? You know? I wish I would say yes, but I was just floating in the music I didn't have. I'm going to be Elvis Presley. It really wasn't like that. I just wanted to play music, and I wanted to be in a band, and I saw those guys and and all I would think was, Man, wouldn't it be great to be like that?

You know what? It would be so great? And I would just get this in my mind and think about it and dream it. So I guess I dreamed it. And my my dad always said and I had delusions of grandear. He would he you know, I'd say, Dad, and I'm gonna go down. I'm gonna write these songs, and and he's going you have delusions of grandear. You know, this is gonna burn out and you're gonna finally get a job. What are you talking about? You know? And

as time went on, these delusions of grand ear became reality. So, okay, speaking of that, you your friends are in college. They're saying, we're going to Nashville. You're like, what the heck is Nashville? What's country music? You start hearing about it, You're like, okay, I'm coming with you. I didn't they moved, Okay, they said we're going. They weren't college guys, they were just street guys, and they said, we're moving to Nashville to

the songwriters and artists. They wanted if there were two guys, and they wanted to be a duo. They wanted to be the Everly Brothers or something. And so I kept in contact with him, and I decided, and I honestly say this, I knew my car would not make it to l A, but I knew it could make NATS. Phil, you should write that song, I know. Actually that's a great visual. You need inspirations. I mean, I had gone to New York City to try and peddle this album

we made, and it just I'm not being honest. It just totally overwhelmed me and NWY it was just like whoa I was. I wasn't ready for it. But uh, and then in the meantime, I had started writing songs, you know, and Uh, I would trade out time with the only studio in Youngstown. I would. I would say, you have a bread commercial, Okay, I'll write your bread commercial, and you give me the studio from ten o'clock at night till six o'clock in the morning. And that's what

I would do. I'd go in there and record these record as bread commercial and then I'd record these songs I was writing. And those were the songs that I brought to Nashville. Was American made in that batch? It was not in that batch. No, none of those songs, none of the songs you're describing, was in that batch. Let me give you a little rundown really fastest. Some of the number one songs that Bob Papiro has written

American made. Oakridge Boys, Wink, Neil McCoy, I love that song, Blue Clear Sky, George Straight, Oh my God, love it, Daddy's Money, Ricochet, World's Apart, Vince Gill, that rock Won't Roll, Restless Heart, Little Rock by Reba, Do You Love Me

Just Say Yes? Highway one oh one, Church on Cumberland Road, Shannon Doah, Money in the Bank, John Anderson, Take Me As I Am, Faith Hill, Oh my gosh, I love that song Till You Love Me Reba, their Planner Song, Neil McCoy, If you ever stopped loving me, begun, re Gentry Southern Voice, timor Gal. I mean number one songs. You've had fifteen number one songs. That's not even your top ten songs, which I won't even go through all those, because I think you have over like how many top

tens do you have? How many Top Caroline? I couldn't tell you. I'm not that kind of guy that goes, well, you know what, I have thirty Top twenties, i have twenty two Top eight teams, I've got seven Top five. I know how many number ones I have and after that, I don't. I'm not counting. It's it's like, yes, I like number one songs. Number one songs are great. I love to get more of them, you know, But I'm

just just inspiration for inspiration every day. Yeah, yeah, it's not about counting the number ones or what and it's not about what happened. It's to me, it's always about what's going to happen. So you do not live in the past. No, And it really pains me when I see a lot of my contemporaries who do living off their past achievements. Well yeah, not that that they shouldn't be saluted. No, they should be saluted. But I mean, well, back when I was having my big success, music was

so much better. This music sucks now, you know. It's like, come on, man, you know there's good. You know, there's good everywhere, and there's bad everywhere, you know, and and they kind of get caught in that space, you know. But I've always wanted to just move forward. And I saw that you said you always want to stay relevant, And what how do you do that? Because you have, how have you done that? And what is your secret for staying relevant? I just try to keep a student's heart.

You know, A student is always learning and just when I when, if I ever think I know it, then I'm screwed. Because to me, to be relevant, you have to always be learning. Everything is, everything's always changing. The

language changes, you know, how we speak today. In two thousand and sixteen, is not how we spoke in nineteen three or nineties or two thousands career since well, actually, my first song I ever had entered the charts was Reba McIntyre song called I Can See Forever in Your Eyes that I wrote by myself, and it was like en eighty two or and yeah, it surprises me, but you know, you you learn the language of music. In music,

there's only so many chords, especially in country music. It's like primary colors as far as the harmony and the melodies. You know, you get to other types of music and there's pale blue, there's smoky, dusty roads, youngstound, I mean youngstanding country music. They're very primary. But within those primary colors are so many alternatives. And that's what keeps it fresh for me. And also love working with the new

kids in town. I love it. It's it informs my mind and informs my brain and informs my musicianship, it informs my tech brain. You know, it's just Okay, that's what these guys are thinking about, and okay, that's how that's how we're speaking now, and oh, this is a gear that's really working. You know. Although I still if I followed everybody, I would wouldn't be here. You know,

I follow myself. Yeah, I learned, you know, I write with Craig Wiseman, I'm learning, you know, if I write with Fancy, I'm learning, you know, if I write with someone of that stature, I'm learning what I'm right? How amazing because a lot of people with your kind of success, I feel like I'm the big wig. I'm the alpha of this co write and as you are. And it works for that for those people, and that's cool. But I've always tried to offer writers who might look upon

me as the big kna a welcoming space. Look, we're both staring at the same blank page here, you know, we're both starting nowhere. Let's go somewhere together. So you come in with just no ego, and I try not to. You know, if someone starts egoing out on me, and it really rarely happens. I can be a big ego to jerk if I need to be, I can, But I don't like me as that, and I don't choose to be that. Okay, so you got to Nashville because your car wouldn't make it to California. How long when

did you show up in Nashville? I started making trips. I started making trips to Nashville. Like two years before I moved to Nashville, I came down to visit my buddies. Then I came down again, and I brought some songs with me, and I started just what everybody else who has ever made it or who's ever gotten the music business does, knocked on doors. You knocked on doors literally embarrassed or scared I was going to be in the

music bus. You had no like nervousness about that. No, Honestly, after after getting through music school, which I had no business being in, and actually graduating, and being under that much pressure and that much scrutiny, and after seeing all these great artists who went on to become icons, I was isn't afraid. I was like, I want this, you gotta go. I just I was thrilled just to be here. But I had to get somewhere. So, you know, nobody

sent for me. You know, people say, you know, Jed Atkins didn't call me up and say, Bob, we really need an Italian hillbilly down here. You know, I just I just showed up. And I was a rock and roll guitar player, and I literally had zero knowledge of country music. You know, so many people say, oh, well, look at all these guys today moving here from l A and other pop guys. They're just track guys, and I wonder if they're gonna have a track guy hall

of fame, you know. And they're just these young guys and they think they know everything. Well, I was that young guy who thought I knew everything, and I was I was a rock guy, and they needed some rock. They needed some life in country music, and I was the guy to bring it, you know. So so I just I did. I would literally walk up and down the street. Do you think you dazzle people with your confidence? Do you think they gave you a shot because you were so confident? I don't know. I wasn't like get

a lot of this. You know. It's like, wow, am I glad to be here? And man, I am I glad you're talking to me? And here are some songs I really like? And I was being honest. So how did you get your first big break before the cut, first big number one? How did you get your break

into the country music industry? Well, I had moved here and I was making my living in Nashville, being a guitar teacher, teaching guitar two kids after school, you know, and uh, you know, they show up, I want to learn back in black, and I teach it back in black or I want to learn. So that's what I was doing to make a living. But then I got hold of a billboard magazine that said Combine Music looking to expand its pop arm and I went, oh, I'm pop.

You know. So I was not affiliate with bm I, but I had met someone from bm I, Jerry Smith, and so I called him up and I said, hey, Jerry, I'd really like to talk to somebody at Combine Music because it says right here in the magazine that they're they're looking to expand their their industry bigger than country. And so Jerry made an introduction to Al Cooley, who was the song plugger, the general manager at Combine Music, home of Chris Christofferson at the time and Larry Gatlin

and blah blah, Dolly part and blah blah blah. Very small independent company, was not a corporation, And so he made me this this appointment, and I showed up with my tape and I gave it to Al Cooley and I'm sitting there and he plays it and he goes, hold on hold of state right here, and he runs upstairs. I don't know where he's going, comes back downstairs and he says, all right, come upstairs with me, and he takes me upstairs and he takes me in this big office.

And there is this guy named Bob Beckham who was the publisher, the main guy of this publishing and Combine music. And he kind of had his own language. You know. He was from Oklahoma. I never met anybody from Oklahoma from Ohio, you know. And he's, ah'm I shtaying the sun fire are all I could all I could make out that what he was saying was and and we're gonna make a lot of money. And he dismissed. He

heard it, and so he thought you had something. He thought I had something, And so did he sign you to publishing. He said, you're welcome to come here. You're welcome to come here. Any time you want to drink the coffee, hang out, You're welcome to come here. So I was the quintessential hair and a biscuit man. I was there and I was hanging and I was drinking the coffee, and yeah, I was you couldn't get me out of it, man, he said, you said, yes, sir, yeah,

You're welcome to hang out. And and luckily at the time there were guys like me, guys who had come from different parts of the country who were trying to do a similar thing. They were trying to write. They were trying to figure out my artist and my writer. What am I? All I know is that I love music, and I met like minded guys. You know. I met Steve Earle there, who has just come to Texas, and he played me Devil's right hand right after he wrote it.

And I'm like, oh, it's screwed I write that, you know, but it once again, it informed me about that's what is excellent. I know that I feel that you can tell an excellent song because I feel like I've been a song pucker and listening to hear what hits are. Sometimes I cannot tell what I Honestly, I can't tell

all the time. When I wrote Blue Clear Sky, I liked it, I didn't think, yeah, I didn't think it would ever go to somebody like George Strait, and I never thought it would be be the title track of the c M A album of the year. I liked it, you know, and I remember pulling the faders. I'm going, wow, this is a good song. But it never occurred to me this is the number one smash, you know, because I had other songs I thought were much better and

no one even responded to. But there were certain songs that would just oh man, that is such a hit that it's once again, it's hard. It's hard for me to say. Uh. I thought Southern Voice that I wrote with Tom Douglas was crazy good, not good. I thought it was as good a song as I could humanly right at that point. And I thought it said something that meant something but had been said differently in a

way that had not been said before. And I thought that's really unique and different and I think it's excellent and I and then we can translate that into music. Row language was that's a hit, you know. So I was pretty certain that was a hit song. Yeah, And and there have been others. I mean, I really loved the song you mentioned really early in my career that rock Won't Roll. It was just like, oh man, this

is so cool. What a good idea. Yeah, it was a great idea, and it's a perfect example of Keith Digging because I wrote that with John Scott Cheryl and we had written this song called that Rock Won't Roll. The whole song finished done, and we went back and listen to it and said, man, there's nothing good about this song except the title. So we just scrapped that whole song. And because once you built this little creature that is a song, well it is scary, but I

think it's it's prageous. You have to know when to hold them. Yeah, there's a difference between stupidity and fearlessness. I don't know what we're that like, truly, truly, but I mean I think we both felt as such a cool idea that we just scrapped that whole song and started over, and thank god we did. Yeah, I think we once again, I wrote a song about love but wrote it in a way that may not have exactly been said like that before. And you you make me

think of something interesting. I feel like sometimes on music Row people can get into the habit of just showing up with their co write, working for four or five hours, calling it a day, and just like, oh, that's okay, that's that's good, that's a fine song. But really, sometimes you do have to put in the extra effort and really like work harder because you can't get into an easy routine. I felt, not you a particular but songwriter. Yeah, And and there's a lot to be said for that.

I mean, writers that hit that sweet spot in their career, it's like they can do no wrong. Everything they're writing is getting recorded or getting listened to, and it's like, oh, yeah, okay, it's five o'clock, I'm leaving now and fully expecting the song to be recorded or looked at, you know. And that's a portion of a career right there. But I know what you're saying, but I think some songs don't need to be reworked or rewritten. They're just blue Curt

I mean, yeah, blue clear Sky. We never changed the word, never changed the note of melody. It was as it was written. Oh shoot, yeah, absolutely. I think I think in the creative process there's there's talent that's involved, and there's when you become you know. I always said that a trained seal can write one number one song, but to write three, four, five and beyond, something's going on, and I think that is talent. I think it's just perseverance,

you know. I think it's expecting a miracle, you know, and luck is involved. Cannot say that that's not part of it, or some people might call it my better angels or it's my luck. But something helps. Do you feel like you have to be open to receiving that extra help? Oh? Yeah, I think so. I mean yeah, I mean, I'm I'm a I'm a very I'm a spiritual person of a problem with organized religion, but I

feel it. I believe, and songs are magical. Yeah, and it really I think Keith Richards in his book really described at least to me, it made sense where he said that he feels like an antenna and he's just got it up there and he's just waiting to receive and it's like a radio and sometimes you can't get the station, and sometimes you can hear parts of it, and sometimes it's loud and clear, you know, and just I just try to be open, you know. Oh, it's a great book on for creative people too. I mean,

it's his version. There's no one way, there is no one that is the truth. And actually, like talking to people like I've gotten to do with the podcast, you hear their stories and it's all over all over the map, and that's good. It is because there is no one way. Perseverance I think. Yeah, I think somebody said, you know, if you want to get to California, you can walk and take a bus, you take a jet, you take a private jet. You could back, you could you could drive,

and you'll get there. But there are just so many different ways to get there as long as you get to California. About your car breaking down in Nashville, I mean, you got that's your next infiration, Bob. I just like, Okay, so you're the hair in the biscuit. That's where we stopped. I kind of your hair in a biscuits. So I'm hanging out this and I'm I'm running into guys like me.

But when you're much younger and hadn't started, Yeah, you know, twentysomething guys that come from all different parts of the country. And it's the first time I really met guys from the South. Like, I'm from Mississippi, I'm from Atlanta, I'm from I'm from Oklahoma, I'm from Texas. I'm from Florida. Well, I thought Florida was Miami Beach. No, Florida is deep country,

you know. And but they all had the same passion I had, and so it was easy to connect with them and we both we all wanted to write something, whether it was for our solo projects or we wanted to have songs to be recorded by the artists of the day. And so I fell in with these people and started writing with them, and I guess I turned in and those songs that finally this Bob Beckham said, I want to sign you to a deal, son, And I love that you're turning in songs that you don't

even have a publishing deal. Oh no, that your heart, the eager heart. You wanted it. Well. I wanted to show them. I wanted to show them how serious I was and and that I'm going to do this and if you're with me, cool, and if you're not with me, I'm gonna do it somewhere else. But it was in my heart to write these songs, you know. And so finally said I'm gonna give you a deal, son. Yeah, I'm gonna give you a seventy five dollars a week every week. I'm like to me, it was because someone

was actually gonna pay me to write songs. That's a yeah. I'm this guy from Young side Ohio. It was getting paid, you know, five dollars a night and all the beer I could drink in a bar band playing brown Sugar or whatever, the songs of the day word, you know, and this guy's paying me to write songs. So it was huge. And and and that's what I That's what I did. And I told you I was teaching guitar

when I first moved to Nashville. So I would show up there on o'clock and I just hang out and and then i'd start making writer appointments and i'd write with my writer friends until about three o'clock. And then i'd have to go all the way up to Rivergate Mall, which is where I taught guitar in this real little music store, and I would teach guitar to all the kids from like three thirty two whenever they stopped coming,

you know. And then I'd come home and I right by Combine to see if anybody was there, and if they were there, I was there, you know, And I just I just did that. But you have such an infectious personality to that that must have really shown how badly you wanted this. You know, he's got to love your perseverance. Well, I'm you know, Bob Beckham was an old school publisher, but a publisher nonetheless, just like I don't know Detroit Thomlinson is today a great publisher in

our town right now? Or Mark Brown? You know, Uh, they recognize, they recognized talent and drive. They recognized the package. Talent is no good about d They recognize it's the package. He's got, the talent, he's got the drive. Doesn't look like he's taken over Nancy. And I think he's got delusions of great You know, when I first moved to town, I always felt like, how will people know that I want to be here? You know? And I do agree

with what you're saying. Now that I've been here for almost twelve years, you can tell when someone wants it. It's not it's not it's not a regular thing. Not everyone has the drive. I think that's a key ingredient. Yeah, I think it is too. And I think it's it's how you present yourself, you know. I mean, I think I'm a pretty good guitar player, but I never showed up with the attitude. Is I'm really hot shot? Elect

a guitar player? Get ready for this? You know or someone I mean and honestly I'm not this is what I think, or someone like you. You're very beautiful woman, but you do not lead with that. You don't lead with it, whereas a lot of women lead with that, they lead with the sexual that last five seconds last. Yeah,

but you lead with your heart. I feel, you know, and I think that's why you're here and where you are right now, you know, and and all the other stuff kition whenever you not just all this extra stuff you got to use, you know. But I think you lead with your heart, and I think I lead with my art, and you can, and you can get hurt, you can, But why why why not put yourself out there so you can also get grandiose, grandiose life visions of grandiose. Yeah, that's that. And yeah, so I just

kept working so you got the publishing. How did it feel when you got inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame? Starting from this whole journey. Now you've had your all, your number ones, all your success, and now you're getting inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame. I mean, are you like freaking out? Yes? It really was like otherworldly. It was like a dream. It's like you dream of since you were a kid. Yeah, it's like I'm watching

it happen from somewhere up here or something. Wow. Look there's Bob and they're walking up and people are standing up and clapping. And I wasn't necessarily in the moment of Okay, I'm feeling this, I'm seeing this. It's just like it was almost an out of body experience, you know. And to see my peers and to see people like whoever was in the audience, Vince gil Garth Brooks acknowledging my work and a lot of them have both of them have both of those guys, and and so it

felt they felt otherworldly. But I didn't feel like I shouldn't be there. You felt like you deserved it. I had worked, I know, the the time I put in there, and I I always tried to do my best work, and they were honoring me for my best work. What's your motto a song writing? What's my motto? Yeah? Like what you're like, go to what gets you up to do it? Every day? Get up and put your pants on? Show up, show up? Show up? Does somebody wants to

know the secret? That's the secret? Show up? Are you, okay, if you have a day where you write a song that you don't feel like it's great or does that bump you out? Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I'm a competitive creature, just like praying, but everybody else on music grow. I want to write a great song. But as time has gone on, I've learned to accept that. I mean, it's like an athlete. Athletes don't have old metal performances

every day, you know. Football players don't kill it. Cam Newton kind of sucked in Super Bowl, you know, but I'm sure he's gonna show up and play again and make great plays. But it's just part of the deal, you know. I hate it when that happens, but I mean, yeah, just show up and just do that be. I really have never felt that I've competed with. I want to be just like whoever Rodney Clawson. I want to be

just like Mark Sanders. You know. I've always tried to just be the best Bob Depiro and mostly I compete with myself. Yeah, and while being aware of what's around me. And I think songwriters are like reporters, you know, we're just reporting on on what we've seen and what we've you and what we hear and what we think. You know, we're this is the daily news. Okay. So in the middle of all this, you had there was a moment where you were the songwriter of the Year multiple times.

What songs were a songwriter of the Year for which is a huge procetious honor for Nashville to be honored by the entire community of songwriters, all of like the artists, it's the whole the whole town. And you were the songwriter of the Year. I can't be honest, I can't even tell you what those songs were. I knew. I know during that period of time there were songs like Blue Clear Sky and Daddy's Money and World's a Park

I had written with Vince. And you also got the Triple Play Award for a couple of times during this which is where you have three number ones within one year, And I think, did you have a double triple play? I had two, had earned to Triple Play awards. So in two separate years, you've had three number one. That's a big freaking deal. It was a big freaking deal for me, for anyone. Yeah, I mean yeah, And you know these days guys are getting multiple number multiple triple

plays a lot. But I think that's a that's the result of the fact that our whole life is sped up. You know that that our whole media wheel, our whole radio wheel has just sped up, and they're just spitting them out as soon as they get to number one, next, next, next, next, next, and the guys that are in the golden circle, or it's time for me to get them, you know. But I was, I mean I never I never had it in my mind that I was gonna get three number one records in a year, or do it twice. I mean,

that's insane. Okay, So I'm looking at Cleopatrick Lean Denial. I love that song from Pam tell us you guys were married from we were married for it was seven years. Were did you just write songs all the time when we were around? I mean, when we were in songwriting mode.

Was that harving marriage an artist who's traveling all the time. Well, I can only speak to my experience, and my experience was that when Pam's career as an artist started, I mean, she had really been at it trying to become an artist, and she got out to l A for a rock pop Madonna type deal at the time that didn't work, and so she had been at it. She'd been knocking at it. But when but when she started dating, she was not quote unquote famous. She was mel Tillius's daughter.

That's that was the extent of her fame. And I was already in my role as a songwriter of note, you know. But Pam has always been a great songwriter, you know. So as soon as we got married. The day we got married, her first single, Uh, Don't tell Me what to Do went number one. Yeah, I mean too wish I had written it. And and immediately we she was shot out of a kid. She's on a rocket and she's starting out. So her hubby, Bobby is playing in the band. I played guitar in the band.

We travel on the road. Melt Tillis for his wedding, President Us gave us, gave us one of his old tour bus, and it's a it was a old tour of us and its still had bus seats in it, you know. But we have a bus, you know. So we just took off and and all of a sudden we were on the road more than we were home.

It was fun until it wasn't fun, you know. Yeah, I mean there was a time when we were really killing it as a couple, but there was always this competition thing going on that I was always I'm not saying anything bad, but I was always like, hey, we're a team. Isn't it a great gay for us? You know? And the h and we were killing it, you know. I think at one time two of us had half of the top ten with her stuff with my stuff,

with our stuff together. Uh and uh, like I said, it was a lot of fun until it wasn't fun anymore. And and just what happens, you know, there's it's not a cliche that people break up that are in show business. I mean there's sometimes there's it's just impossible situations you find yourself in. Why is that that so many people break up and show business? But I think that's just the same because people just break up in general. People

do break up in general. And I think you're right, and I think it's just because they're famous and people love to follow people who work not even famous, but celebrities, and they get invited in their relationship like the Kardashians and celebrities. You know, they they don't do anything but they're they're celebrities people though they are, you know, and I think that kind of spotlight on you personally in

your life. I mean, being married is hard enough without somebody looking through your windows while you're being married, truly, you know, and that at least this is my experience. I'm not Dr Phil or anything, just my experience that added to the insanity and the success we were having was just just beyond beyond, you know, and all that rolled into one and all the all the little devils that come out from that, you know, envy and oh look at that pretty women, look at that pretty guy,

all that stuff. Yeah, when you're on top, everyone wants everyone watch every and everybody is in your ear, and all of a sudden, sometimes the voices start screaming. I guess, well, sometimes you start listening to them more than you listen to your wife, or you start listening to your husband. You're listening outside of the marriage, and you're putting more weight on those voices rather than your own voices as

a couple. In a married couple, you know, well, I guess it's easy to get lost in that big fog because so many people are involved with you as a brand and a product, and yeah, you're invested in your life. Yeah, and it's it's such a it's it's it throws you off. It threw me off balance, you know, because all these people are invested in your life and all of a sudden, it's just overwhelming, you know. And you know, drugs and alcohol didn't help. So was that happening? Oh yeah. Do

you think there's a way to be moderate or is it? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, it's hard to be moderate sometimes because it's don't you feel like, in a way in this industry it's okay to like And I'm not talking about Pam, I'm talking about me, right, right, right. Don't you think it's sort of like okay to drink every day? And well that's the deal. I mean, that's you are right, you know. You know in corporate America you have to take piss tests and and they check you to see if you're high.

And here it's almost like you gotta mark against you if you don't drink. You know. I remember going to my later later publisher and telling her, listen, I've got it. I've got to check out. I'm I've got to go to rehab. I'm really in trouble and I'm gonna go to rehab to deal with this. And and she was like on the phone and hang her phone up, putting

her leash on her dog, and she goes, oh, that's great. Uh. Tommy, someone who's the head of a record label in New York, he just went to one and he said he had a great time. I'll see when you get back. And she just walk out and tell her I'm I'm spiraling out to get and she goes, okay, bye. Or I've heard people say I love to sign a writer if they're going through a divorce because the inspiration is the

chance the pain. So yeah, and I haven't you had another old publisher just had this this slogan of pain and beauty. It's pain and beauty. Be upset? Yeah? Yeah are you? Are you really upset? Book yourself today? Yeah. So anyway, I'm not blaming anybody but me, you know, but that's that's involved. So, so you decided to cut drugs and anocohol out of your life at some point, that's right. When did you decide? When did you decide it was time to like xanay that when I felt

that I was dying. Yeah, I had gotten that bad. It's not like I woke up from a hangover one day and said, I don't want to feel like this anymore. No, it was bad. It was bad, bad. You know, all of the major food groups. I loved them all, Like marijuana. I was awakened, bake kind of guy. Did that help you write songs? No? I thought I did. And and to me, cocaine was this was this exotic, taboo drug.

But that Dwayne Almand did a lot of cocaine, and I loved Dwayne Almand, Keith Richards feel a lot of cocaine, and so I want to be like them. So I guess I'm gonna do cocaine, you know. And I did it, and I liked it and everything else that was there,

and of course alcohol was always there. And so at the end of my marriage to Pam Uh, as soon as we got divorced, all of a sudden, I was partners in an independent publishing company called Little Big Town, which is where a Little Big Town got their name from our publishing company because it came and asked us, well, you're not using your name and where can we use it? Which I came up was I came on, and so we had sold this company to Sony a TV, like

so many corporations gobble up companies. And I just got dumped on this gigantic mountain of money. And I'd just gone through a divorce, and I was nuts, and I had nobody to be accountable to. I was living here, my family was in Ohio, and I just went down the rabbit hole and I, you know, I had a housekeeper tell me that. You know, I was always afraid I was going to come to clean your house and find you in your bed dead. Yes, and and so thank god I recognized that. And and so I didn't

know what to do about it. And so I called my old friend Steve Earle full Circle, who I knew it had gone through this and more. But I called him up and I said, Steve, Man, I'm I think I'm in really deep trouble. I think I said something funny like I'm surrounded by the Prudian Army or something like that. You know, I can always make fun of anything. And I said, but I don't know what to do. And he said, well, man, I wasn't just you go to rehab. And there's this place in Minnesota called a

Handley Hazelton and that's a great place. And I went there, but still in my brain at the time, I was going, I'm not calling to Minnesota in February hitting me. So I started looking around, you know what. I found a branch of Amiston in West Palm Beach, Florida. So I think I'll go there. You know, I had nothing to do and help. I'm in trouble. But where's yeah, I mean, where's the sun? I want to go there. You know.

If I would have known about Eric Clapton's rehab place in the Caribbean Islands, I would have gone there, you know, But I didn't. I showed up there and and did you get it right the first time? I got it right the first time. I have no idea why. Well, I think they isn't it part of the saying that you have to want it yourself? Yeah? I think they say you have to be willing. Is only the dying can be to want it, you know. And I was willing, and I was willing to do anything. Are you just

so ready? I was just so ready? I was. I had scared myself sober, and I knew I couldn't do it myself. And so I went there and I was still an asshole. When I first got there, a bunch of bullshit Psycho Babbo. I think this is a cult. It sucks, you know. And then one day while I was there, I just woke up and I was like, wow, I think this can help me, you know. And I just and I have no idea why I've been sober this long? How many years have you been sober? A

couple of weeks ago was fourteen years. Knowing that I could leave this interview and go jump off, that's the thing. It's a daily every day. Some days it's so easy, I never think about it. And some days it's not so easy. But that's part of the deal. But I know this. I know that had I continued on h I would have probably died and I would never have met Leslie. Who's your wife? Now? Who's my wife? Now? It's probably my first sober relationship, it's probably since high school.

And she's like beyond, I don't deserve her, you know, But I was. I was clear headed, and I was sober. I'd been sober for a couple of years before I had ever met her. And that's when I found that. I always thought that I wrote all these songs because I did drugs. But what I came to find out was I wrote all these songs in spite of doing all these drugs, because after I got clean and sober, I went on having kept having hits, kept having the you know if you ever stopped loving me? And and

Southern voice and on and on and on. So it's got a huge moment of like relief in a way, and then also like freedom. It's it's a feeling of awakening and knowing something I didn't know. You didn't have to depend on anything anymore. Yeah, and just I had this all wrong? Really, what did you have wrong? I thought that if I got high that it was cool and and it helped me be here. And all my friends drink until they fall over, and I want to hang out with them, and so I'm going to drink

until I fall over. Well, some of my friends can do that and then go home and they're over it. But me, I keep going, you know. So I figured that out about myself and uh to do something about it. Yeah, but I'm not strong enough that I can pull this off myself, you know. So I do all to do. I go to the meetings, and thankfully my wife has been a great help. You know, she gets it. She said, what I call a civilian she doesn't have this is um and uh, you know, and most of my friends

get it. They all get it, and I'm don't and I'm not that good of friends with them anymore. Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, that's almost probably it's big of accomplishment as these songs on your wall. It is to me knowing what I know now. I mean, I get this, I get this. I know it's amazing. Literally has like fifty number one time. I really I get this, and I'm now able to take in or before I didn't know what I was taking it. You're just in it. I was just high. I was high and I was

in it, you know. So here we are, sixteen and I just got done writing a really good song today called dirty Love. Okay, so we gotta wrap up, even though it's been an hour. I want to talk to you forever because you probably are one of the most interesting humans on earth. Your story is so colorful. Yes, I'm a colorful guy. You are a colorful guy. Look at my phone. It's colorful. So I like to end all of my interviews with something I call leave your Light.

So leave me some inspiration, like inspire us with something that means something to you or has inspired you, or that you want to inspire on others. I think if you want a life in the creative arts, especially in the entertainment business, whether you're a songwriter or or an entertainer, always have the heart of a student. Be willing to learn, be willing to try stuff that you've never tried, you know,

be open to it. And have fun while you're doing it, because sometimes that fun is all you're going to get out of it. So have you know, have a good time while you're doing this. Have fun. I love that, even if funds all that it is, yeah, because there's a lot of times, you know, write a great song, man, we had a great time and nothing ever comes to the song, but we had a good time while we're doing it, you know. But go after what you want,

go after your dreams. Don't be afraid to ask for what you want, and be the hair and somebody's biscuit. Be the hair and somebody's biscuit. Just show up. And I will say that there's a fine line between stalking and networking, and you need to find out where your line is. That line between being a pest and pestering and networking, or how to speak to somebody or how to show up just enough or at the right time.

That is an art. It's it's very much part of being in the music business and you can figure it out, but you have to know who you are, so if you don't find out. Thank you so much for interview. Thank you, Caroline. I enjoyed every month. Carol Love. She's a queen of talking. No one can Carol Love. Carola. Thank you all so much for tuning into hyper Caroline Hobby, I hope you loved hearing from Bob to Piro. He is one of my favorite humans on Earth, and I

just loved having him as a guest. Next week, I am freaking thrilled because I have the o G, the original, the one and only Cody Allen. He host on CMT and I have loved him and looked up to him forever, and he gives me lessons on how to host and

it's so fun. And then we hear his whole story on how he got into hosting and how he became the household name that he is in the CMT sensation, So y'all get excited for Cody Allen and please tune in every week and subscribe on iTunes and leave some comments. Thank you guys so much, See you next week. Bye mm hmm