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the way I want to. With up to 100% tenor triple protection. We'll see you next time. speak to your GP. As an intro, Cleaves, I think you need to edit me in now saying that you have lost your mind. This is Sting. And this is Jimmy Nail. And this is Top of the Pops. I've had to change my barber because of his Tommy Robinson affiliation. Oh, no. Fucking hell, no. I thought you were going to say you'd like a barber jacket then, for a minute clues. I just can't listen to it.
Anyway, this is what people should be listening to. Let's go back in time and look at the mad world of insanity. The mad world of Victorian insanity through the prism of the insanity. 1970s Britain an ancient kingdom with legends of violence cruelty and tormenting its blood join your hosts John and James, as they bravely tread where few would dare. Witness their journey into the horrific history of British horror. They are... The General Witch Fighters.
Ladies and gentlemen, goblins and cooks, welcome back to episode 56 of the General Witchfinders podcast. I'm James in Bournemouth in southern England. I'm John Pountney and I was thinking I might get a new catchphrase because after 50, how many episodes did you say then James? 56. 56. 56 numbered. And there's quite a few A and Bs as well. Oh, Lord. I might have to start saying something different because I get a bit bored of this South Wales bullshit.
I mean, I'm in South Wales. And if you don't like it, fuck you. Very Trumpian. How's that for a catchphrase? And I'm Ross in Dorchester. I'll do that game without opening my can of Coke. I'm Ross in Dorchester in Southern England, and this time... I didn't like this properly. This time, we don't know where we are, who we are. This time... This time we watch The Creeping Flesh. Man is an inquisitive creature.
prodding and prying that every secret nature has hidden from him probing deep into the mind scavenging for the secrets of the past, horrifying secrets best left buried forever. You are looking at the very essence of evil itself. It would appear that your research is following similar lines to my own. Creating whole new heights in undiluted flesh creeping.
What are those black cells? How do you isolate them? And what association do they have with insanity? You'd have to tell me you know. You would be utterly ruined professionally if it were learnt that you had experimented on your own family. This is your mother's room. Why didn't you tell me about her? Why? You said she was dead! The subnormal, the supernatural, and the supreme evil. All of these come together to form the creeping flesh.
So, The Creeping Flesh is our first Tygon movie. Tygon was founded by Tony Tenser in 1966. releasing a wide range of films, from Black Beauty to the sexploitation of Zeta 1. However, the bulk of its output consisted of low-budget horror films, competing directly with Hammer and Amicus Productions. T-Gon's most famous films include the Familiar... I can't even say that. Familiarily? No. Familiarily? No, cut all that out. It's T-Gon, aren't we?
What is it? Oh, fuck's sake. Tigon's most famous films include the similarly titled Witchfinder General and Blood on Satan's Claw, which I'm sure we will get round to one day soon. Hopefully not. A Tigon is the offspring of a male tiger and a female lion. But then also in Napoleon Dynamite, he says that's a Liger, isn't it? It's Bradford's skills in magic. Anyway, I haven't thought about Napoleon Dynamite in ages.
This hybrid nature perhaps reflects the company's blend of genres and styles, merging horror with other cinematic elements. Tigon was based in the same building as its rival, Hammer. at Hammer House on Wardour Street in London. I never knew that. Oh, imagine that. Bringing you all of the facts, John. All the info. Passing on the stairs and saying, hey, what have you got in production at the moment? What have you got in? Chaps, you know.
Yeah, we've got Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee and so have we. Oh, so have we. But we got Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing. Just wearing different wigs. Right, okay, so released in 1973. Smack bang in our kind of... target area for this podcast. The Creeping Flash. was directed by Freddie Francis, written by Peter Spenceley and Jonathan Rumbolt and co-starred, sorry, and starred Big Chris Lee.
Peter Cushing and Lorna Heelbron, would we say? I don't know. Heelbron, that sounds about right to me. Heelbron? Yeah, sounds good to me, James. Thank you. Freddie Francis replaced Don Sharp as director at the last minute, reflecting on Peter Cushing's performance as Emmanuel Hilden. Freddy said, Peter was excellent in it. He always is. He seemed to convince everyone that it was real. Even I listen to Peter talking all this rubbish on the screen and I think, that must be true.
Peter is the greatest guy at speaking unbelievable dialogue and making you believe this. Yeah. You prefer a target, a military target, then name the system. You know, amazing. He is really good. I haven't done that in a while. Right. Anyway, so Freddie started his career as a cynic. You said mommy. You said Gideon. Oh, what? Oh, did I? I don't care. I quit. Right. Okay. Thanks. Thanks. Is it not grand moth? Yes, it is. It is. Yes, everyone. I would say just a moth. A moth was like a lower.
Like a general, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, so the grand moff. Well, yes. I thought you'd know that, James, to be honest. Yeah, well, I should. I should know that. But I'm sorry, I'm on half term. My brain's not quite in its usual peak operating performance.
Anyway, Freddie started his career as a cinematographer before moving into directing. Only laced his return to cinematography after feeling he'd become typecast in the horror genre. His career spanned over 60 years from the late 1930s until the 2000s. One of the most celebrated British cinematographers of his time, he received numerous accolades, including two Academy Awards and five BAFTA Awards.
You wouldn't know it watching this film, would you? Oh, I don't know. That's how it's moments. Yeah. So, Freddie directed Paranoiac, which was an early starring vehicle for the great Oliver Reed. the evil of Frankenstein, and Dracula has risen from the grave. I don't know why I felt that he said it like that. Thanks. Cheers. You get that. It's better than the film. During the 1970s, he worked mainly for amicus productions, notably directing the horror anthology Tales from the Crypts.
He was also the uncredited director of the 1963 adaptation of Day of the Triffids. Interesting. And... He went on to direct the little scene, Son of Dracula in 1974. starring Harry Nilsson in the title role, and Ringo Starr as Merlin the Magician. Yeah, I remember. Surely Prime General Witchfinder's funny. I imagine nobody was sober.
during any day of that production. Oh, my God. Can you imagine? Unbelievable luscious and incredible drunks. Yeah, two of the biggest drinkers go in. At the peak of that, they're getting pissed. If it's possible to find out, I would like to watch it. Yes. I can't believe that Barbara Back's not involved because Ringo often gets the good lady wife involved, doesn't he? Yes.
Oh, love, come on, I've seen this. Anyway, so, Freddie's first Academy Award was in 1960 for Sons and Lovers, a beautifully shot adaptation of D.H. Lawrence's novel. that showcased his mastery of black and white cinematography. In 1961, he shot The Innocents, a film we hope to cover one day, apparently. After nearly two decades as a director, Francis returned to cinematography in 1980 with The Elephant Man.
Not the last time we'll hear the late lamented David Lynch mentioned this evening. That's all I'll say based on what we're going here. Yeah. which led to collaboration with the great David Lynch, who he also shot Dune and The Straight Story. Amazing. No way! Yes, and do you know his nickname?
for david lynch no he calls him he called him lucky well if i yeah he called him lucky lynch there's the the famous shots in the elephant man when anthony hopkins as treves sees john merrick for the first time like you know get out here but come on come on you know they're treating him like an animal and they bring him out to trees and trees sees him and then like he kind of zootie kind of slowly zooms in on his face
And a single tear rolls down. And they literally, the shot, they just caught the single tear rolling down his face. And David Lynch said, after that, he always called me Lucky Lynch, which I think is just a nice story. I've got no memory of actually watching The Elephant Man so I've been trying to shoehorn this into I think I have seen it but I've never I've got no memory of it
Right. Okay. He then went on to terrify a generation of children with his cinematography in Return to Oz in 1985. What a career. Amazing. We're still going. We're still going. Blows my mind. He then won his second Oscar for the American Civil War film Glory. Starring Morgan Freeman. That's insane. And murderer Matthew Broderick. Who was he murdered? He ran that to get someone over, didn't he? He ran somebody over in Ireland and tried to pretend that it never happened. No way!
No, I think it's while he's been with Sarah Jessica Parker, I'll tell you that much. Is he the one in Ferris Bueller's day off? Yes, it is. The titular Ferris Bueller, yes. and he then also he also this is Freddy by the way he earned a claim Jesus James he earned a claim for his work on the French lieutenant's woman and He also did Cape Fear. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, one of my favourite films of all time. Yeah, and some amazing visuals on that as well. When he's drowning.
And let's not forget his camera work on music videos for Jimmy Nails Beautiful, which I don't recall. And, let's face it, if it's not Crocodile Shoes, it ain't no doubt. She's lying. Exactly. Now, I know we've already gone off topic straight away, but I remember when that record came out, there was a thing in the paper saying that some guy received either one of the first ASBOs or was taken to court.
because he kept playing that record repeatedly at maximum volume. And he tormented Neighbours by playing it for like 15 hours. straight on repeat. Ain't no doubt it's playing C. And that was really weird. That's what I am. Chimmy Dale from Afrida St. Petters is doing a pop record. That was number one. That was basically just talking. Yeah. I remember the shock of like.
It's a new number one on top of the pops. It's Jimmy Nail. And I was like, it's what? It's what? You know, because the other stuff around then was like Too Unlimited. Wigfield, maybe, and all that kind of stuff, wasn't it? Yeah, and then it's like, what? It's Jimmy Nail. Did he pave the way for Robson and Jerome, do you think, as well? I think he possibly did. Yes, yes, yes. And he also did the video for All Saints Never Ever, which I am familiar with.
How old did this guy live? He's also the world's oldest man. Carry on, James. Tie it all off, yeah. I love that video. Never, ever, ever, ever felt so good. Freddie Francis. Yeah, so Filming for the Creeping Flesh took place in Surrey, of course, at Shepparton Studios and Thorpe House, which also served as a location for Craze, another film directed by Freddie the same year. Do you reckon that's Thorpe Park? Do you reckon Full Park went on to become... Full Pass became Full Park. Hmm? Hmm.
He was 90 when he died. So he was born in 1917 and he died 2007. Yeah. A hell of an innings. And what a fucking brilliant life. what a career yeah what an amazing life just imagine just some of the stories that he could have told you all the people all those people he worked with he's worked with yeah He worked from 1937 to 1999. Brilliant. Fair play.
Carry on James. And it just says the cinematographer on this film was Norman Warwick who shot the abominable Dr. Fibes. See our episode number 10 of this podcast for our... Exuberance, in inverted commas. Praise on that one. Dr. Jekyll and Sister Hyde. as well, which I believe turned up a lot in that Hammer documentary that you went to see, Ross. Yeah, they talk about that quite a lot.
as well as the seminal confessions of a window cleaner, seminal in more than one way, I think, for that generation. Yes, right. Anna Grant plays Emmanuel's daughter, Penelope. She has appeared in Taggart, Lovejoy, Dramarama for ICD Kids, and a drama called Spearhead about the troubles in Northern Ireland, which is not to be confused with Spearhead from Space.
Well, it was the only Doctor Who serial to be shot entirely on 16mm, which that's why it's such a great transfer to Blu-ray. That's interesting. Incredible, incredible transfer. and nothing but the night, which we covered on episode 42. She also appeared in Ace of Wands, another show we need to look at in the future, and the Blake 7 episode Rumours of Death. We believe this film was the 20th that Big Chris Lee and Peter Cushing starred in together with Lee playing Cushing's...
Step or half-brother, wasn't it? Half-brother, yeah. Well, we'll come on to that in the fullness of time. We think it slots in between two other films that we've reviewed featuring this power couple. horror express episode seven more on that in a minute And nothing but the night episode 42. Now, if we've got this wrong, do feel free to correct us. You can find us on Blue Sky as General Witch. All one word. Now, long time listeners may be asking.
Where's the Boone connection? Something we've started to find as a golden thread running through most of the things that we cover. because i've got the script up i thought john was to rescue me Well, one of the writers on this film, Peter Spensley, according to IMDb, only wrote one film. This one. But he had a busy career as an editor from the late 1970s right up to 2012, when his most recent credit was as an editor on High School Mums.
And you guessed it. In 1987, he edited three episodes of Boone. Yes. Take your drinks now. There you go. I can now take my glasses off. Maybe he wrote the sequences where there's no dialogue. Yeah. It's possible. Yeah, just edit them in this order. Yeah. Right then. Well, let's get absolutely stuck into this one because I think there's quite a lot to discuss.
It's basically the same, exactly the same story as Horror Express, isn't it? Yes, it is. That is my note on page number. Hold on a second. You will notice. And once again, this is like on Countdown. Can we see your workings? And yet they have to hold it up to up to the camera. Not for the first time tonight. You can see that it says. This is the same plot as Horror Express. You've dug up something, you've taken it somewhere, and now it's coming back to life.
Yes, exactly that. But we do start off with what I've put down as some fun fair artwork from Peter Cushing at the start. It starts off with him working on this painting. It's not the best quality painting. Lots of flying fingers. If a member of your family did it, you'd go, yeah, nice. Keep going. Keep working on it. It also looks nothing like the monster later on, does it? Yes, correct. slowly pulls back from this painting with some weird kind of like wild west font over the top of it yes
Not gothic for once. But then you see Peter painting in this all-white room with lots of... Sort of, with scientific equipment. And it reminded me of his TARDIS in, I can't remember which one is it. It's very TARDIS-y. Yeah, the second one, I think, Dalek's Invasion of 2150 colon AD. Yeah. I think there's a colon. Yeah, so you pull back.
And he's talking to, he's requested a medical doctor to sort of tell the story to. Another weird looking 70s man with a back to front haircut. See last week's episode. He doesn't talk. You do hear the sonorous tones of Chris Lee. It's unmistakably Chris Lee going, your visitor is here to see you, Doctor. Yes.
so that's a bit of hint to the yes as to what is going to go down here at the time I just thought maybe they were just my initial thoughts were maybe they were just like really short short for they couldn't afford to pay someone to do the dial so they just said to chris on the way out can you just say that into a microphone mate you sound good that was my thought as well james because i've done a few films where i've had to pop in as uh
where they forgot to cast people. And we've talked about this, I think, in a previous episode, where I had to pretend to be a builder finding a body in a film for the Iris Prize, where I had to say, the immortal line. There's a body in the basement. Because they'd forgotten to cast someone to say the line. All they edited it together. No one's actually mentioned this. Yes. So I had to do it on set on the day.
What I found interesting, firstly, with this title sequence was that Christopher Lee is billed above Peter Cushing, Sir Peter Cushing. but actually has a lot less screen time than Peter, which I thought was a bit of an insult to Peter, wasn't it? Because was Christopher Lee a bigger star than Peter Cushing?
Is this post-Scaramanga or something like that? Not quite. That was a couple of years later, wasn't it? Yeah, I would say so. 74, isn't it, or 75? I think so, yeah. I just imagine this is just like his agent, isn't it? I remember seeing something as someone who likes films. I remember someone once saying, oh, or reading something saying, oh, the order that people's names appear in post on either A on the poster, that's always a big deal. And if it says, and.
the person's name at the end, that all gets negotiated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's also things about them putting them... Side by side. Side by side rather on top. above each other and stuff, yeah. Peter, you don't mind me having first billing in this studio. Of course not, Peter, you don't mind. Maybe it was like Shatner and Nimoy where they would just take it into... Yeah, yeah, yeah. William Nim...
William Nimoy and Leonard Chatner. Yeah, apparently what they used to do for the movies is they would take it in terms of being the dick who would hold off to try and get more money because they had some kind of thing where they would get the same amount of money. So they'll take it in turns and be in the watch and say, I'm definitely going to do it. And the other one will say, I'm not going to do it unless I get more money.
I am not spot. I haven't got notes for the start of the film because I watched it in two chunks. So I've only got notes for the second half of the film. So I started looking at my notes here going, none of this makes sense. But then I realized I haven't got notes for the start of the film. But I think straight away, you can tell basically...
That Peter Cushion is in some kind of mental hospital, can't you? You can tell. My notes were, I put strange that there's a minimal backdrop. Yes. And that it's not an actual set. It's not a lab set. So straight off you think. Something's not right here. Something's not right here, yeah. Or it's going to be like one of those weird sort of 70 films where it's a little bit like Dr. Fibes. they got like weird sets and stuff so yeah it's very Avengers-y and in that way it's also very Dr. Fibes-y
But then... But he does look fucked at this point. And I was thinking, has his wife recently died? But then the next scene, he's looking lovely. He's got a nicer wig on. He hasn't got the beard and stuff. Well, his wife died the year before, or maybe the same year that they filmed this. So it's very close to Helen's death, yes.
I feel like we've lived through that death with Peter. Over and over. Yes. Over and over on this podcast. But it's incredible how much he worked. Through it. Yeah. The busiest year, I think. I think he just threw himself into his work. It's very tragic to think that he'd lost his wife and then just thought, the only thing I can do is work to kind of not go mad, which is... Unless she held him back and said he couldn't go. Stay in the loft and meet your models. I was about to say, stop.
spending all our money on your miniatures. We could be in a palace by now, man. I've got to say, before we review it, I think his performance does save this film in lots of ways. He's brilliant in this one. Yes. And I think... cherished and championed in his lifetime is very sad because I think he was a brilliant actor and a lot better than a lot of the other actors. I think this is the first one I actually noticed how good he was at acting.
He's a far better actor than Christopher Lee. Christopher Lee is the same in every film. He walks in. And I may be mentioning that later. He looks supercilious. He talks in a deep voice. He does this pointing thing with his hand. That's all he does. He's tall. And he's got a great voice. He's tall imposing. He's very good at barking orders. That's going to be my comment from us later.
get the chopper or whatever. That's his Charlemagne heritage. Yes, you know it. Bossing around the peasants. So yes, we are told early on that that Peter Cushing's character he is a scientist of some repute although he's trying to win like I've already forgot the name of whatever the prize is so whatever their big wig 1893 scientific prize. It's like the Jaeger prize or something, isn't it? Yes, yes. And they could win £10,000 for it.
Yeah, which he needs because he hasn't got no money. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, because he spends money like water. He's not very, very good with money. So he's fucking off the New Guinea. And yes, he has returned from Papua. He's basically a sex tourist, isn't he? That's one way of looking at it, perhaps. Yes. He has returned from Papua New Guinea. With deep paralysis skeleton.
I was very, I thought, I wonder who the guys are going to say the skeleton is like. And it's interesting you've gone early, Ross, with Dave Brown. It was before you said it was mine. I had to get in there. Oh, no, no. No, right. This is why I wasn't going to say it was like yours, because it's because of the teeth. It hasn't got a teeth and a jaw like yours, mate. I didn't really think of anyone. I just thought, why is it still joined together? Yeah, it was weird.
Do skeletons stay together? No, they don't. And the teeth are part of the skull. They're not individually. Yes. It's so badly made. It's very badly conceived. And they do keep doing close-ups of it. Yes, they do suggest that perhaps, like to start off with, the feeling is that he has found perhaps something akin to the missing link, akin to a Neanderthal. But it does quickly become apparent that it's supposed to be like a demigod, isn't it? Yeah, like an Enochian...
Yeah, yeah. So something is not quite right. Because he's buried underneath the strata where you would find Neanderthals. Yes. So they're much older. So very similar to... The Quatermass... Yeah, and The Pit. And The Pit, yes. Same kind of vibe, isn't it? So he is like, oh, this is it. This is going to be my ticket back to success as he returns to his very, very stately home. His lovely daughter. We're introduced to his daughter.
we see that he basically ignores the... classic cockney delivery men who have helped bring in this uh yeah one of whom is michael ripper one of whom is my great i've seen him in the credit We're going to have Michael Ripper in this film and then he's only in one scene. Scene. Which is really annoying, which is the only bit really of comedy in the film where he doesn't, he's waiting for a tip and he doesn't get a tip.
And I think that's where a lot of the Taigon films often break down, is that they don't have that attention to detail that the Hammer films have, where they have a little bit of humour. and the pacing is different, whereas this kind of starts really well, and then they kind of forget where they're going with it halfway through. And Michael Ripper says, £10,000, which is my note here.
And then, yeah, we go through the whole, well, it's good you need to win it because you're virtually out of money. The daughter says... struggled to survive while you've been to Papua New Guinea. We had to let one of the women go. Christ, it's tough being an upper class person, isn't it? What a tragedy it is all the time. Imagine having to make your own dinner.
yes so he then uh he sorry i'm already doing the dreadful thing i i always get annoyed at us for doing not saying the character or the person so
Peter Cushing. Peter Cushing, thank you, Ross. Peter Cushing then heads off to meet... big chris lee now this is where it gets interesting for us first of all i've noticed excitedly i've put my god they're brothers this is surely the first time this has ever happened i would have thought so yeah we yeah we then learn in a bit it's actually half brothers but the deal is this is that big chris lee is in fact a psychiatrist slash psychologist.
It's 1893. We're coming up to my interesting point in a minute here, so brace yourself, you see. And we learn that, oh my God, Chris Lee, big Chris Lee also wants to win the £20,000 scientific prize. And he feels that he is close to making a big psychological breakthrough too, which will help explain madness. Yes.
He's the proprietor of A Mental Asylum, which is a very common trope in these type of films. The set of which, and I can't remember if they go into the set at this point, looks very similar. to the set of Frankenstein and the monster from hell that multiple doors coming off a central kind of hallway. And I don't know if they kind of reused.
uh that for um frankenstein and the monster from hell it wouldn't surprise me because that was a that was the same year what year was this please 72 free one of them yeah so it was filmed in the same year so they might have bought the standing set off
taigon and redressed it yeah so this is this is my one and only what i think is a mildly interesting point be interested to see what you think about it and what i put in my notes was this is yet another film where the The birth of psychology is used to, you know, kind of illustrate the horror or to understand the horror. We got it in Hands of the Ripper last week, didn't we? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I was like, oh, similar sort of thing. And I thought, now this is, wait if...
And I highly recommend, if you haven't watched Days Dark and Woodlands Bewitched, which is the epically long but brilliant documentary all about folk horror. Oh, I think my friend Richard was talking about this to me. It's very good. In the UK, it's currently on Amazon Prime, so you can watch it for free. Highly, highly recommend it. Now, what they say in that is they say one of the hallmarks of folk horror is that the is that the horror is beneath you just waiting to be uncovered.
Because of our history in Great Britain and how old we are as a country, that is the ongoing kind of the atmosphere and the sense is that the horror is buried underneath us. and they then spoke about america and they said well why doesn't america have this and they said well because america is a newer country and it is so big yeah and because of the sheer size and space of america horror is always out there in inverted commas
The horror is always out in the darkness, waiting to come and get you. Particularly for people who went and caught... discovered in a frontier you know yes right so there's that and then i thought big forests and stuff like that is this kind of or this period in the 1970s looking back at the late 1800s This is the notion that, well, perhaps the horror is in us. And I thought, oh, maybe this is something. And maybe this may, dear listener, if you're interested in that.
you know does anyone else think that there might be something in the in this yeah the idea that that you know all of a sudden this notion of well we're doing a horror but we're going to try and understand what's going on from a psychological perspective and i thought Well, it's weird that we've just seen, if we take the Nicholas Lindhurst thing out of the equation, that's two things that made a very, very similar time using the lens of...
oh, okay, let's look back at the turn of the century. Oh, look, that's the birth of psychology. Can we understand horror through psychology? Yeah, and also, can we identify, which we come on to in a bit, can we identify... what the essence of evil and and yes define It's interesting here, and I think the massive mistake that the film makes is to equate insanity with evil. Yes. Because I think that straight away, you're just like, what on earth are they talking about?
And I think that really confuses. But they kind of imply that. that the insanity is caused by evil? Yes. Rather than the insanity is evil. Potentially, yeah. But I think there's... Yeah, go on. Let's carry on because I think it's quite a... It's quite a faulty film that makes some interesting points. but then fundamentally never follows them anywhere. Well, let's go the case so far from it. So I think, and this is where also we discover that Peter Cushion's wife,
has been committed to the asylum. This is the most problematic part for me. The story arc with the wife is just nonsensical and offensive. And has died. Yeah. Very recently. Yeah, whilst he's been away in Papua New Guinea. Yes. But then when we go... and he basically says you can't tell this to my daughter because apparently the daughter thinks she's already dead she died previously and didn't know she was in the asylum yes
So his wife was a musical kind of entertainer, wasn't she? Yes. What's very weird here is that we've done it without knowing. We've done a trilogy of weird Victorian psychodramas. Yes, we have. This is basically what happened in one of the episodes of Gary Sparrow, isn't it? Where he meets and falls in love with... I can't think of a name now. Is it Mary Lloyd? I think it's Mary Lloyd, isn't it? Supposedly. Is it Yvonne?
That's his wife. Yeah. Or the other one. That's his wife in the present day, is it? Yvonne. Phoebe is the one in the past. Yes. Yes. So, basically, this film kind of continues that kind of... vibe doesn't it yeah straight laced peter cushing has met and fallen in love with this kind of um Racy. Yeah, someone who's...
Well, we're kind of sort of jumping ahead here a bit, but we discover that she has multiple partners. But we should also then point out, so after this very, very fiery confrontation between Bickersley and Peter Cushing... um after peter christian leaves we do get a bit more of a glimpse as to big chris lee's um
Asylum. Number one, they're doing all kinds of experiments featuring electricity. And I noted, once again, it's our second and not final mention of David Lynch this evening, the sound effect that they use for electricity. that's used in Twin Peaks. No way! I'm doing a rubbish version of it here. Same stock sound, yeah.
Well, if you watch any episode of Twin Peaks, at the end it says a Frost Lynch production over like a pulse of electricity. And it's exactly the same electricity sound effect. I was like, oh! Interesting. More on that later. Bizarre though, like Twin Peaks is probably only about... 17 years after this which is mad absolutely crazy to think that was it 1990 was that 1989 yeah So, yeah, like 16, 17 years, which the difference in production values alone.
is like ginormous, isn't it? Well, 90 days, isn't it? Yeah. And then so during this little tour of the asylum, we learn that one of Big Chris Lee's patients gets loose and makes a break for it. And then I put in capital letters the Chris. Everyone, you may either want to take your headphones out your ears at this point. I'm going to go for the big Chris Lee here. sound the alarm is his line there you go get after it
And then we get the kind of really good kind of alarm sound. And it reminded me, Ross, of when you used to live at Harrington House, which was an old Victorian converted asylum that still had the alarm bell up at the top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did we come there, Cleves? Yeah, but I had my green punto. Yes, go Perry's. Yeah, that was a sticker on the back. Go Perry's, go Perry's, go Perry's. The escape of the man from the asylum is just...
The biggest waste of time. Yeah, it's such a weird side story. I see why they did it.
But it takes up too much time and it's really odd. I think it would be boring without all these sidesteps, isn't it? Yeah, they wouldn't make an hour. It very much does feel... white padding and also Chris Lee says to Peter Cushion that I'm not giving you any more money as well so it turns out that he's been bankrolling him the whole time yes So is this the part where you can insert my voice note from earlier, Cleves?
Remind me to make this point later or just use this bit, Cleves, because I was just thinking and otherwise I'll forget. The guy that escapes Buster Blood Vessel. No reason for him to be in the film at all. Besides causing a bit of a fuss in the pub. And then... He's dispatched by the daughter. I thought because he's been in the asylum with Peter Cushing's wife and she's recently died.
that he has escaped to give some kind of message to Peter Cushing and go to the house. Which I think that would have been a far better... reason to have him in the film than just to be brawling and then fall off a high building which i think isn't that exactly the same as a dickens doesn't someone fall off a high building in a dickens in a very similar way in the docks um that's my point
I've made it. If I forget to bring it up later, you just stick this in. The podcast, please. John Poundy, News at 10. Creeping flash. Back piece of cushion goes to his manse. where his lab is and then we get the kind of His initial experiments on the big, weirdly joined up skeleton. And here we go. It's a kind of a cross between a Klingon and a predator as well. That was actually the working title of this film.
And what we then get is we get some stop motion animation. He gets the finger wet and it's quite similar to the meltdown they did in Hellraiser. Yes, but the other direction, isn't it? Just reminded me once again of Peter Gabriel's Sledgehammer video. The bit where... Peter Gabriel grows into a penis. Yes. Well, we've got to probably discuss the literal elephant in the room. But unfortunately, the appendage, the finger that grows back does look...
Like a giant cock. I can't believe I just said those words. It looks like a gentleman's member. That's better, John. Thank you. And yeah, it looks really, really odd. If you get the skeleton wet... It will grow its creeping flesh back onto that part of the body. Yes. So far, so good and full of interesting ideas and kind of like, oh, missing link.
Mental Asylum. There's lots of gothic tropes here. There's so much. It's just all been thrown in, isn't it? And I'm thinking this is really good up to now. And I really like the bit with the finger. And we've been introduced, I think, at this point, haven't we, to the assistant of Peter Cushing, who is the vicar from A Warning to the Curious, which is the year before.
or maybe even shot the same year. If this came out in 73, it might have been the same year. Who is... really a really interesting character in this but then he's killed off quite unceremoniously and annoyingly later on but um pseudoscience and the fake kind of science around these sequences is really interesting, isn't it? And it's like...
oh, if you get water on it, it grows flesh and stuff. And I'm like, this is great. When are we going to get to see this monster? What's the, you know, what's the kind of... well we did bursting in the ceiling that kind of spray and you keep hearing like i thought any moment that was going to happen which you keep hearing running water and also needs and a fucking monkey um Squawk, squawk, squawking the whole time. Apes around, but they're like sitting on chairs and stuff.
It's a very odd look, isn't it? Now, I didn't want to jump ahead, but they do then give you an explanation as to why water... is reality this is like where they make a massive leap well it's always like
oh, I've got some books in the other room which will explain all this to me. So he sends his assistant next door to go and get them. The vicar. Who leaves the key in the lock. And then the daughter grabs the key, essentially. This is where it's like... this is where to me they've taken the script to someone and someone has said you've got 30 minutes material here you've got to make it you've got to do more and it's like yeah okay um The daughter at this point steals the key.
This is where it all starts to go a bit wrong here because it's like the story is what happens with the fucking skeleton on the plinth.
not the door to go in and oh i like i quite like that bit oh yeah i thought it was just dull so let's do the skeleton story first yeah yeah yeah okay okay all right then so what we learn or what what Peter Cushing suggests is this is that this is the skeleton of some kind of demigod in some way and it's been buried down and what he says is first of all i put this is really rude he says well where where the skeleton was buried it will take about 3 000 years for that to become uncovered
Yes. In about 3,000 years' time, the people of New Guinea will have developed science. Yeah, to the level I'm at now. Yeah, exactly. I thought that's a bit much. Come on, mate. But anyway, and so he's like, and then when they do discover him and when he does get it, he will get wet. And it says in their scriptures that there is, you know, a great, you know, the powers of evil and stuff, you know, the powers of the flood will resurrect him.
and then he will be resurrected, and then he will be able to destroy evil. He is evil. He is evil, I think. I'm not sure how resurrecting a giant demigod destroys evil, but go off. Get over it, mate. So then he makes a massive jump of logic that he's got the evil in him. Yeah. So he sort of cuts the end off the giant phallus. Yes. Gets the blood out.
smears it all around smears it on there's a lot of science there's a lot of science at this point i found this the idea really interesting that in the future We're talking about some kind of future war where this creature will be awakened and battle these people in the future. But then that part's totally forgotten as well. And I thought that part sounds really interesting. You found some kind of... warrior from a future war.
He's cut the end off his penis finger and smear it around and then... take ages focusing on a fucking microscope yeah with some kind of like um fungal infection on his finger so much of peter christian's fingernails in this film close-ups of him scraping things around and stuff yeah it's it just there's so many ideas in the first half an hour which are not explored and forgotten and then you're just like
There's some really interesting close-ups of these weird, black, creepy spider things. Yeah, so the evil blood cells. So this is what, like... This always happens. The first theory they come up with is the right theory. And they can extrapolate from that. Complete massive leaps of logic, which again are true. Just from a book he's got in the living room. Yeah. Basically. So they've got these black... blood cells with like wiggly lines on them and those are evil so then they decide okay well what
So if I put my good blood in it, the evil blood attacks his good blood cells. Yeah. I was wondering how they did that effect in, like, 1970s. It was quite well done. I think it was very well done, and some of the... best imagery of the film and i don't know how they did it really yeah i think it was really well done and um
really interesting kind of idea but it just doesn't go anywhere so then he decides i can work out some kind of inoculation so if you have a little bit of the evil blood your body will then become immune to it and then no evil be able to get into you and you'll turn good that in essence in the film is a cure to insanity rather than badness Which I think really lets the film down because it just doesn't make sense. So he tests it out by sticking it into some poor... Monkey, which they were.
badly treated in this film yes one of my notes later on was animals were mistreated during this film one clearly looks like it's it's dying yeah yeah it's twitching yeah strangled while peter cushion sticks a needle into it yeah it's not a good look no it's not good at all right um no and then he goes oh it's worked okay i'll go yeah
Okay, I'm going to stick this in my daughter. Well, it's basically like, oh, the monkey's still alive, therefore it's worked. And it's like, what? Yeah, how would you know? How would you know if that monkey's got evil inside it or not? Yes. Now, meanwhile, with our other plot. The newspaper reports that a dangerous lunatic escapes.
And again, Ross, I thought maybe that might be a T-shirt for the shop. Dangerous lunatic escapes. And so big Chris Lee is absolutely enraged that the press have got hold of this story. Is this what he's doing? His disco lights. Yeah, that's right. And then basically plot turns up, the police turn up. and there's a really brilliant kind of like back and forth saying well is this man dangerous and you know all the rest of it
Oh, I should also point out this is after Big Chris Lee has shot a patient who's tried to escape, which is great. But in short, the summary of this scene goes something like this. Are your security arrangements satisfactory here? Fuck off. Oh, okay. Thanks very much. Bye. Obviously not because he escaped.
Yeah, that's right. And he says, I must ask, are your security arrangements up to par here? And he's like, how dare you even ask me that? You know for where they are. And he goes, all right, fine. Okay. And I was like, that's the worst investigation I've ever seen in my life. so the experiment which um uh Christopher Lee is doing, to solve insanity, is flashing coloured lights at people. Yes. Apparently. And that's what he's going to win the prize with.
Yeah. Have I seen the flashing coloured lights? Yeah. And sort of like the sound. It all sounds like something that would have been played at like one o'clock in the morning on John Peele.
back in the day you know it's all these days it would be album um in the top 10 albums of the year on the quietest website yeah i put down i put down i bet that it would be called artificially simulated hearts and their album of noises recorded inside a Victorian asylum using only authentic electronic equipment from the time. Speaker of which, do you see the thing I put on Blue Sky today where...
They've made a digital version of all the equipment from Radio Phonic Workshop, so you can go and play around with it all. That sounds good. That is good. That's good. You can get less than that. So, yes. So they're very, very worried about the escape prisoner. We then also see the escape prisoner. And what I put is, in many ways, he is like... cheeky wannabe spy daniel khalifa who we've had in this country recently
Yeah, to escape from prison and then told a load of Iranians that you'd give them the names of some people from the SAS. One of my favourite tweets I saw at the time that just said... Wouldn't it be amazing if, yes, he was really doing that, but when he met the Iranians, there was just one name on the list? Ant Middleton. Ross Kemp. All right. Are you talking about him? Yeah. But he hasn't got any hair. Oh, he's talking about his method of escape. Yeah.
he puts himself into like a bag doesn't he he sort of puts himself into a bag of posts or away that you know there's something like that isn't there I'm sure when we watch these films like for each of us gets one bit taken out because like John didn't see the Flaculo bits I've got no memory of this bit I honestly have no memory of this part whatsoever and I watched the whole film
Okay. Well, so he is on the run. This is the guy that looks like Buster Blood Vessel, yeah? That's right. He does look like Buster Blood Vessel from the Scar Pop group. You know when you've been tangoed. You know, special brew and all of that business. And then there's super digging. There's food. And then there's Baker's Superfoods. Made with selected natural ingredients and tasty chicken. There's food. And then there's Baker's Superfoods.
When I'm wearing tenor silhouette underwear, bladder weakness is the last thing. close fit design gives me the confidence with up to 100% tenor triple protection against... Transcription by CastingWords Remind me to bring photo ID. Babe, can you make sure I don't forget my photo ID when I vote? All right, love. You'll need photo ID to vote on the 1st of May. Since when did pride in your country become prejudice?
OK, we then also we get and then once again, this is the point when I thought, my God, this film really didn't need this. And this is our recurring theme that we've had a couple of times here of they needed to pad this out. Despite the fact that the following two lines of dialogue would have absolutely done the job here, which is Peter Cushion going...
I loved my wife. She was a beautiful woman. She was incredibly talented, but I lost her to madness and I couldn't do anything about it. She lost control. There you go. Instead, what we have to have is a very, very long flashback as we get their entire relationship and her going absolutely, as my grandfather, the one who arrested down the doors, would have said.
Drinking from the doolally tap. That's what's happened to her. Yeah, so this is because the daughter who... a recurring theme these things doesn't matter how old you are if you're a daughter of Christopher Lee or Peter Cushing you're just like a innocent
child, even if you're on your late 20s. So she gets into her mother's room. And this is, I think, the first occasion of people hearing voices yes yeah there's lots of like recurring dialogue being echoing in case you've forgotten what people have said goes in there and she's got all the posters up from when she was in like their version of like the Moulin Rouge and stuff and her sort of like yeah
and her sort of February clothes and stuff. And from this, she kind of... February clothes. February clothes. They're playing in Glastonbury next year, aren't they? She manages to... imagine or we just see a flashback of um peter cushion falling in love with her on stage the show seems to be of like her lifting her skirt up a little bit and kicking around a little bit oh showing off her ankles men in capes um smoking joints
They're playing Glastonbury next year, Men in Capes. They're supporting the artificially stimulated heart. on the uh on the pyramid stage this is the bit that i had the most problem with is that it shows a woman with a sex drive as being insane. Yes. Which is just ludicrous. It's ludicrous in Victorian times, and it was ludicrous in the 70s. It's a gothic trope. This is the problem with the film for me. This is where it all unravels. And this is the wife who we never really meet in the flesh.
was not really insane. No. She was just put in an asylum because she had sex with more than one man in her life. Yes. And I think that that would make much more sense. as a film and as a standpoint than the kind of just stupid mess that we get from here on in, which is...
The bit, it's just non-scripted rubbish after this, isn't it? It's a real shame where they've set up all these ideas and then they're just like, like I said to you, potentially in the voice note or in my own head. It's like they went in. one morning and there was no script and they're like oh fuck what we're gonna have to film something something here because we've had loads of money from um
that gangster to make a film. So we better make something. You know, we've got Peter Cushing here. We can't leave him sat on set in his slippers. When he could be at home in bed with Christopher Lee. Yeah, crying about his Helen. So when the flashback ends, she's wearing the mother's clothes and playing on the piano. And then Christian comes upstairs, thinking his wife's back alive for some reason. But what happens from this point on which leads him to inject his daughter with skeleton blood?
I mean, this is the problem for me. It's that... insanity in this film insanity or mental health issues equal evil yeah and then it's like well i'm gonna cure her of these mad urges that a mother suffered from by injecting her with this serum I've just developed from this. Skeleton I found in Papua New Guinea. Skeleton's cock finger. You're, you're, you're, like, Peter. And my biggest testing was, I put it in a monkey and the monkey went to sleep.
Unfortunately, it's just like, Peter, you're the one that looks mad now. This is what I always think in Uncanny, which is when they talk to the guy, Dr. Kieran O'Keefe. who is the skeptic, the skeptic's reasoning for... what happens with the hauntings always sounds much more insane than just saying, well, that's obviously a ghost. Yeah. And they imagined it, which is effectively... Well, yeah, it's like, oh, um...
Well, yeah, you know, a 25 mile an hour wind through someone's home could move a book. It's like, imagine a 25 mile an hour wind through your house. He wouldn't just be moving the book, it would be moving the whole house. No, but I like to have 15 minutes of... Just named Johnny Robbins or whatever. Danny Robbins. Danny Robbins. In a wind tunnel.
So with this film, it's like, oh, my daughter's gone in a mother's bedroom, which I've kept from her. She's got upset because she's realised her mother has only recently died. Now I'm just going to inject her with this shit that I've got from this fucking skeleton. Yeah. It's like, oh, for fuck's sake. So meanwhile, Buster Rhymes is looking for a window. Buster Rhymes!
Buster Rhymes. I haven't thought about Buster Rhymes for literally about 25 years. Got you all in check. We're very... But what then happens is, so we see that our escaped criminal maniac... finds his way into a pub basically starts running his hands over a drunken bawdy lady who goes buy me a drink please darling or something like that
The usual. Which is a flashback to Hands of the Ripper, isn't it? Yeah, exactly that. And then you start to strangle her. And the oblong box. Yeah. Well, that's what I say. It's basically the pub from the oblong box. And it's like... You've co-opted. a scene from another film from two years before and just reworked it. And it's like, this is what I thought. It's like they've come in and they've got, oh shit, we've got no script. What happened in your blog box?
Oh yeah, the madman came in and he killed someone, slit their throat. It's exactly what happens in this film. So yes, he then starts to strangle this woman. She screams for help.
The pub then is galvanized into action. A huge fight scene begins where numerous people are shown to be... useless at fighting despite the fact you think they'd be quite handy one sailor leaps off of a table onto the guy and i put down that was good and that was good kind of fight thinking i like that yes you know if you're going to surprise the guy leap off the table at him
But again, no effect whatsoever. The guy, you know, our maniac just throws him off. And then another guy, he just runs past him. Did you see that? Watch it again. He just goes like... and just runs past as he runs past the crit like the maniac just sort of kicks him or hits him on the back that's quite good yeah yeah yeah and i and my notes here are someone please use a weapon No one picks up a weapon. He's the only one. It's like just hit him over the head with something.
Yes. All I've written down is, love a brawl, the barman finishes his pint, which is a very Roger Moore Bond thing, where you've got the guy who's always... Drinks a drink and looks at his drink and then tips the rest away, like when you see the double-take pigeon. Or you've got...
Is there a guy who ends up in a, in a reservoir that is totally empty and he's in a fishing boat and he's just looking, does a double take there. So that's, that's, that's, I think that that's the, this is the genus of that original idea, isn't it? This film. Yeah. Sorry. So, so cut back to. Peter Cushing, the next morning, his assistant goes, quick, quick, you must come, quick, quickly, while he's shaving.
And we find that the monkey that they've injected has died. Or at least is twitching. A monkey was harmed in the making of this film. This one, past muster these days, yeah. Peter Cushing is aware that his daughter is now on the run. She's escaped. And cut back to the East End. And now the daughter goes into a pub.
And I know in my notes, this is the same pub. It's exactly the same pub. But now this is where I'm like, now, hang on a minute. Is it supposed to be the same pub? It's got all the same people in it. Exactly. That made no sense whatsoever. Has her hair changed colour? No. Okay. I don't think so. This is quite hard to say. There's an establishing shock. that says the blue anchor. And I can't remember if you saw that earlier in the film.
Sorry, I've got loads of peanut choco in my mouth now. So it's quite hard to, you know, it is, it's exactly the same pub. It's been smashed up. I think they fixed the door. You see a few planks on the door, but it's like where they got all this furniture from. Because all the furniture was smashed to pieces in the previous scene, wasn't it? What I did notice before the sequence is that the policeman is...
The driller, Slatton, from Quatermass in the Pit. All right. The camera version. Okay, yeah. The guy that... Um, runs towards the tea van and makes all the, um, saucers. Yeah. Lies on the floor and the floor starts. Undulating. Yes. Yes. So that's him. I can't remember his name, but he's a very good actor. I thought her hair did change colour. And it was kind of implied, I felt, that she was being possessed by her mother.
That's interesting. But I don't know if that was just something I got, but she's wearing her mum's clothes. She's wearing her mum's clothes. She goes in there. She meets a thoth. She's been infected by evil, which means she wasn't going to have a drink. and some gin and she wants to drink gin yeah yeah and potentially have some how's your father with um some toff hmm
Who is also evil because he's a Toff. Yeah, but he changes his mind. And then there's quite a prolonged, very uncomfortable... yeah it's really horrible and it's everything about it is nasty what i put is that first of all the trademark lech landlords yeah so there's a trademark lech who's like a toff come here young lady and i put like the landlord is charmed by predatory sexual behavior He's doing all this. It's very awful. This era of filmmaking, I don't know why they have this.
fixation with these kind of sequences which is so uncomfortable for the entire audience who wants to watch something like this and it's just like Right, okay. It's gone on for five minutes now, guys. Just fucking... It does feel like it's some weird fantasy. Yeah, it's very frenzy, Hitchcock. I mean, there's loads of films we've had to watch where there's... sequences like this from the late 60s, early 70s, where they've stopped kind of policing this stuff with the BBFC.
And it's like, oh, yeah, you know, 60s, 70s, man, we can show anything on cinema now. And it's like, no, it's just you've gone too far. And then she starts raking his eyes out. Well, yeah, she scrams all his face then. Or some people might say scratch, but if you're in Wales, you say scram. Very much like a poltergeist would. she flees or you know that there's a hubbub isn't there and once again i've put yet again it's another scene where
with a Victorian mob in pursuit. She goes upstairs and starts flirting with someone else and then he goes... tries to go after her again and she um bottles him in the neck and that's when yeah and then it was very much like the the people from the um royal oak in goodnight sweetheart running along the street going oi oi oi oi oi but this is but this is also the oblong box isn't it because she she slices someone's neck
And it's like, I don't want to go to any of these fucking pubs in the East End where this is all they do to people. You go in for quite a drink and then some fucking mad woman or a guy with a fucking corduroy mask. Ends up slitting your throat. They both end up in the same sail-making place. I thought there were some really good shots in there. I thought that looked really good. The crowd sort of followed them.
Does he attack her? No. For some reason, they're kind of like kindred spirits. Kindred spirits, crazy spirits, maybe. He's like smooth in a hair, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, that's it. And then he goes upstairs and sort of looks out of the... kind of like the loft yes yeah yeah yeah in the you know down by the docklands in the 1800s they would hoist the cargo and the stock up up high and store it up high and he's like looking down and what was my note
I've put madman distracted by idle crowds there's people just milling about and he just finds that he's placated by them and he's just staring at them for ages and ages. This is when the skeleton cock figure infection takes her over again and she whacks him with a plank and he falls to his death. Bust the blood vessel no more. No. He falls to his death in the manor of the Klingon in Star Trek III, The Search for Spot, doesn't he? Yes.
Christopher Lloyd, no less. Yeah, he's gripping onto the edge and then she kind of stamps on his feet or something like that. Yeah, I think you also pointed out Johnny. Enough. of you! I love that one. I think you also pointed out very similar to Bill Sykes' demise at the end of Oliver. because because nothing but basically nothing really comes of it but she gets arrested taken to the asylum
Big Chris Lee recognises it and then takes it back to Peter Christian. So then we're back to where we were 20 minutes ago. I thought at this part that... you know, we're going to have some effects makeup or we can have, she's going to turn into the monster. She doesn't do anything. She just, So it's like there's no, it's a monster film without a monster. And I think this sequence is very frustrating because it's the guy who's escaped.
And there's no reason to have him in the film. And I think anyone watching this film would say, what's that storyline? I enjoyed it because it... the same all the way through. Often these things will just be... The same thing, but it just felt like it just went off on a couple of little tangents and stuff, which kept it interesting. You know, it wasn't all on the same set. It wasn't all the same people all the time.
Yeah, that's fine, but it doesn't add anything to the actual overall story, does it? Not really. No, because it is all about this massive skeleton. Yeah. And we haven't seen that for fucking ages. They've forgotten about. Yeah, exactly. My note says that. The whole thing.
The whole creeping flesh story has been abandoned by this point. So I've said there's a real, more chasing hordes and it's a really lost direction, no dialogue. Yeah. And where is Cushing? Because Peter Cushing... this part of the film it's totally disappeared and then there's a sequence where um Christopher Lee takes her back to his house. Yeah, sees the skeleton. Sees the skeleton. Peter Cushing isn't in any of these scenes and you're like, where is he? He's not looking for his daughter.
Is he? Yes. You see him riding around in his little carriage. Has she already murdered the maid at this point? Oh, I forgot about that. Because there's another, it's like, obviously, Hands of the Ripper, there's another sequence with a murdered maid. Maid, yes. It's like, oh my God, it's like all these films. Yeah, that's when she's pretending to be asleep, isn't it? Yeah. It does make me think, this film, more than many that we've watched, do make me think like...
They're quite formulaic, aren't they? Yes. And I think, you know, we've watched... Because we don't watch the films in order. It's like... Yeah, it feels like they're all ripping each other off, but actually they're all just picking from the same little bit tropes. Yes, but then when you watch the Hans and the Ripper in this, which were...
you know, made a year apart at most. You're like, oh my God, they're literally like, it's like you've gone to see that one in the pictures and then you're literally just writing it down and churning it out the other end. I prefer this one, Lee. Yes, I prefer. I probably prefer this one. well this had the ending which we'll get to in a moment yeah yeah it certainly gave me more food for thought than the other one yeah right so meanwhile um yeah so big chris lee having seen the big skeleton
he then makes the decision doesn't he he's like oh wait a minute this you know if this is true and his his research if that's right that you know injecting some of this or whatever it may be whatever this skeleton he's extracted from it, this could cure madness and this could help me win my prize. So he then goes back home and then I wrote down the line, I put... it's amazing he's like i need to go and get that skeleton and they're like oh you can't do it or you shouldn't do it and he says
I will employ someone for whom ethics has had no significance. Which is a great big Chris Lee line. It is great, but he also goes with the guy. Ethics have no significance. And just grows huge up, James. Thanks. Cheers. Right. But then, as John says, Big Chris Lee goes with him.
which kind of renders it all moose so yeah they then they they turn up they nick or the coachman nicks the skeleton carries it around like we were saying and it would just fall it would fall the pieces fall apart yes In the process, he murders the... assistant to Peter Cushing which is pointless and a bit annoying because I thought he was quite a nice character drags the arm through like a bucket or something to get it wet
I felt was that they had that in order to make you feel like he gets his just desserts when he's killed by the monster in a bit. yeah that's just that that was my feeling you know these days it would just be oh no he just gets killed but you know for back then anyway And then it's starting to rain as well. So you know there's water coming. Yes. And I put, oh no, water is going to get on the desiccated demigod. I put that, that's, oh no, who knew?
Playing on the Glastonbury next year. No, I think they're playing Redding this year. Oh, nice, of course, yeah. They'd get bottles of piss thrown at them. Like poor old Daphne and Celeste. And there's lots of stock lightning and stock funder claps. There's a lot of that. And there's one shot inside the carriage and my notes are... Has Big Chris Lee put a hat on the skeleton? But then I then find out in the nation, which would have been amazing. But no, he's put a hood on him.
Like E.T. Yeah. Basically, to save animating the... Yeah, so later on, someone can be wobbling around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah the coach goes exactly the coach goes out of control and crashes and my note says i'm amazed big chris lee doesn't start berating the coachman for his shit coach driving skills, knowing what he's like. God damn it, man. He doesn't get impelled on the wagon wheel. Impelled on a wagon wheel. Imagine that. A mint one, Cleaves, or just a normal flavour? Just a normal one.
Meanwhile, hasn't Peter Cushion taken the cock out of the jug and chucked the fire? Yes, the finger. He seems to think that that may now be the source of... And that, you know, oh, you know, by destroying it, this is what's driven my daughter mad. So therefore, if I destroy this. So I thought that was going to cause pain to the monster. No, he's gone to pieces at this point, hasn't he? And he's kind of roaming around his house and ends up in his...
wife's room crying and going, oh, Philippa, Philippa, whatever her name is. But it wasn't really well done. I actually felt it. Yes. Yes. Obviously, yes. They had to cut out the time when he said Helen instead of... But I've said, why is he in his wife's room? Why has this provoked him to go to his wife's room and start blubbing? again it doesn't make sense what's happened to the daughter does she die No, she's in bed. No. And then she... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't remember. Yeah, yeah.
What happens to her in inverted commas? Yeah. Yeah. She murders the maid that's stationed with her. like dancing outside oh yes yeah in the thunderstorm yes that's right because the monster sees her does it yes she sees the monster so the monster is now gained flesh of having been rained on because the coach is overturned. Yeah, and he heads back to Peter Cushing's house. So this pre-humanity creature...
Now knows to knock on a door. I thought he was going to ring the doorbell. You see him going up to the doorbell. I thought he was going to ring it, but he's knocking on the door. Yeah. Because he knows the etiquette of how to enter someone's home at this point. Rat and tat. Rat and tat, yeah. With his big meaty hand. My other note from this point is I imagine I said that the demigod would be really, really pissed off.
The last thing he knew, he was in the lush tropical rainforest of Papua New Guinea. And the next thing you know, he's having a tramp round bloody Shepparton. Yeah, with his foot on. With his finger missing. With his finger missing. They keep showing.
Yes. Just to remind you, he had got his finger. Yeah, it's very weird. But it just basically looks like it's the same skull with like... like pink goo on it isn't it it's yes yeah yeah they don't spend a lot of money on it no yeah so then he goes into the house And then you see him wobbling up the stairs from behind, don't you? Well, yes. At this point, I said, there's not enough monster. It's just a shit...
skull in a cape, isn't it? Yeah. And it's like, yeah. This is where you need Dave Rose or Peter Mayhew. Yes. It's a monster film without a monster. Yeah, yeah. That's really weird. that's the only bit that I really liked James where I was like yes This is good. You've got a POV through the monsters. goggles yeah but so this doesn't work because this implies the eyes are further back in the skull yes it doesn't work at all none of it's
Please, if that's the only bit you're kind of scrutineering here, like none of it stands up really, does it? You never see anyone else's POV through two holes, like looking out of their two eyes. No, not really. Do they do this in the skull at some point as well? I think I've seen a shot of the skull, which does that. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, he then kind of meets...
We reach the seeming climax of the movie. He puts his, as Ross says, meaty hands around the neck of Peter Cushing, who goes, no, no, no, forgive me, forgive me. Cuts to... Back to the assignment. Back to our opening shot. Oh. You're missing the bit where he says, he shows him his hand and he pulls off Peter Cushing's finger.
We don't see that because you see that at the end. No. You don't see the figure. You don't see that till the end. No, but that's the implication at that point, that he holds up his hand like this. Yeah. Dear listener, I'm talking about a... A bent finger where you can't see the end of the finger. It looks like a stub. Very similar to what Terry Nutkins, naturist Terry Nutkins has.
So the implication is, throughout the entire film, that the monster is pissed off just because he wants his finger back. So he pulls off Peter Cushing's finger. So this implies that he was conscious the whole time. He knew... in some way yes yes yes so we don't see what happens to the monster do we no no because then it said we then cut to We're back to our opening scene. In what we believed to be Peter Cushing's.
uh laboratory is is very very uh starkly uh decorated laboratory only to find out that oh my god there's a knock on the door and we're told oh your time is up And here is your twist, ladies and gents. If you've made it this far, well done. It's all been in Peter Cushing's head. Yes. Peter Cushing is mad. yeah and has gone absolutely insane yes the doctor comes the doctor who's been speaking to him comes out where he meets big chris lee who says
Yes, you're absolutely right. He's totally insane. And it's interesting. His fantasy involves you. You're a character in it. And he says, yes, that's very, very normal. They often see me as a father figure. And then he went, and what's even stranger is he sees this woman. Did you know I was in the Secret Service in the war? Yes. Do you know I'm related to Charlemagne?
He then says he also believes in his fantasies that this woman over here is his daughter. And we see like the daughter who's just like absolute, you know, like catatonic schizophrenic. just kind of stood holding the bars. And that is the big twist at the end, is that nothing that you've seen over the last hour and a half is real. Or is it? Or is it? Because you come back to Peter in his cell, which is now just a cell.
That he's missing the finger. So Chris Lee could be covered all up by saying that. I think he is. I think he's an asshole in this film, Chris Lee. It's really interesting because I read it as. Peter Cushing was seeing himself as the monster. that had done all of these dreadful things. And that in losing that finger, you know, he'd lost like a part of himself in some way, shape or form. And so he was punishing himself. And then this is my third mention of the late great man tonight.
So this is virtually, you know, this is Lynchian. This is like David Lynch. This is like Mulholland Drive, where all of a sudden it's like, oh, nothing of what you've just seen is real. I was like, wow. And that made me look on the film. in a far more positive light. And I thought, wow, I really like the notion. You can completely read it two ways at the end, though, can't you? Yeah, and I love an ambiguous ending to a film. See the recent movie Heretic for that. No spoilers.
No spoilers, but that's a thrill way. You can read that in two ways at the end. I think that also the implication is that the monster... at that point, is still out there as well. Yes, the new epoch has become, perhaps, that he warned us of. And then that monster goes on to start. The World War. First World War. Yeah. Second World War. Pearl Harbor. Trump. Brexit. The lot. Yeah. For us.
Tommy Robinson, you name it, as you say. I was trying to think of any tall person in history he could have become. Bernard Breslau. John Leslie. Is John Leslie tall in? Is that like history's greatest villain just because he had sex with Abby Titmuss? And who can blame him? Who can blame him? So what are the scores, chap?
Ross, you go first. Unless he's six foot five, I knew he was tall. Is he really? Yeah. That's a hell of a size, isn't it? Scavengers. God. That's like a foot taller than me. Yeah. Imagine him... Oh, cut that out. Cleaver, what do you think? What's the scores? I gave it a four. Cleaver, what did you say then? You were giving it a four? A four, yeah. I really enjoyed it. Fucking hell. I really enjoyed it.
the way that i didn't know where it was going to go um and i like i think that it had like we said a lot of the tropes which we expect but um And I thought it was one of the best acting performances I've seen from Peter Cushing. I thought there was some, I really liked some of the shots. I thought there was some really interesting, some really good transitions. As an intro, Cleaves, I think you need to cut it at...
saying that you have lost your mind. So put that in at the start, and then people will be like, what's Ross lost his mind over? Just like the actual film itself, where we see the end at the beginning. I enjoyed it, yeah. It was one of the more enjoyable ones. So that's on a level for you with, what, the road and something like that? No, I don't know. Yeah, but they were five Cleves. So you're on like, it's one level below the road and stone tape for you. Wow, so I give a four.
That's... I've given... Oh, shit. I started to get the stone table for. Yeah. There you go. Wow. There's a new transfer of the stone tape coming out, and it's going to come out on Blu-ray. Oh, no way. Oh, great. James, what did you think? I'm going to say I didn't quite love it as much as Ross, but I said that ending definitely gave me food for thought. I loved Big Chris Lee Barking Orders.
I love the kind of odd madness of it. So am I allowed to give 2.5? Or do I have to round it up? Yeah, you can do 2.5, yeah. The two of you have been laughing gas tonight. This film was terrible. The first 20 minutes was good. The rest was terrible. This is like a 1 or a 0.5. Wow. Wow. I'm going to live 0.5 then, John, just to bring our scores down.
A mark for Freddie Francis alive in the career of Freddie Francis. I think 56 episodes in, you have both surprised me tonight. I was saying to James that I think that doing this... our tolerance for shit has gone it's completely shifted around you know some of the stuff we looked up at the beginning yeah we get like for example draco ad9 so i only gave it two i'll probably give that a five now because it's a really good film yeah i think it's just like my
my kind of frame of reference has shifted quite a lot you know i think the title sequence alone for dracula ad 1972 is worth a hundred points yeah but i just like i've also i think a lot of these comes to what you've watched recently. DIT! BABAP! DIT! DIT! Oh, what a film. I might go and watch it now. I really didn't enjoy Hands of the Ripper, so I think that this...
This is kind of like, oh, in comparison to that, I'd much prefer to watch this. A pallet cleanser, Ross. Basically the pallet. The last five minutes was total cinema. The rest of it was really drab and really miserable film, wasn't it, really? This is more fun. Yeah, I've got to say this is more fun and enjoyable. Yeah. But it's not a very good film. I like the madness of it. That's right. Yeah.
Yes, yes, yes. And like Freddie Francis said, you know, the exposition is utter bollocks, but Peter Cushion says it was such conviction that you believe it. It's great. He was a brilliant actor, and I don't know why he didn't do... It's just interesting to think that he did stuff that was really cutting edge like he did.
the TV version of 1984 that is probably the thing that made him really famous. And he was in stuff with Olivier. And then he kind of went down this track where maybe he just thought... they're offering me so much, so much work. I'm just going to do these. And I'm right, literally right up to like, God, the mid 80s, he just wasn't out of work, really. But he wasn't doing stuff where you'd think he's going to get the plaudits, which is a real shame because, you know.
He was a really good actor. Sir Peter Cushing. On that bombshell. Did John actually get, John, did you give it a score? 0.5. Oh, I haven't given it a score yet. I thought he said 0.5, I thought. No, 0.5 or a one. I just thought that they brought in some really interesting kind of ideas that were a bit like, very the thing, really, isn't it? Where they find something and it's like, you know, it comes back to life. but it changes that into Victorian.
which I'm 100% on board with, and then it just goes. Like I said, it's like they've lost the script and they're just like... Let's just make it up from here on in, guys. Insanely, Horror Express is the better version of this film. Yeah, it's literally Horror Express. But with that taste of ours. Yeah. And people with boiled eggs for eyes. Yeah. Yeah. And dumb voices. Yeah. So what are you going to give it? You keep saying 2, 1 or 0.5? 0.5. Okay.
Well, what about something horrific this week, Cleaves? Yeah, we can do that. Well, should we mention Uncanny that we're enjoying it? Uncanny or... Speak for yourself. Some of us... Yeah, Ross doesn't like it. I really enjoy it. I think it's great fun. It's really fucking long. It's what? It's an hour. Yeah, an hour of bollocks. Oh, for fuck's sake. Ross, it's more scientific than Zach fucking Bagans going, oh my God, in a box. Did you hear that?
everything at least they try and give you proper proper at least they try and give you proper explanations this weird thing that ghosts have got to have like a 70s aesthetic so that we're going to make everything look analog and and 70s and it's just a weird thing that they they decided that that's what we're going to make it look like i think it works really well um i just can't stand him oh i think i knew it jesus i knew you didn't like it
Yes. So we'll take that bit out, Cleves. I'm allowed to have an opinion. Wait, I don't think you can just say, I can't stand him. I don't like his presenting. I don't like his. I don't like the way he presents. I think it's really good fun. I'm really glad it's on TV. I think it... Something that hasn't been on TV for a while is something supernatural and ghostly and different. And I think it's quite high camp and quite entertaining. And it's just...
Something different to watch, isn't it? I really like it. I think I'd prefer if it was half an hour. I think it just goes on too long, personally. And I was fine, Dave. you know what i'm gonna say two words evelyn hollow yeah i love her she is fantastic the mighty evelyn yeah And if they can convince us, can't she, James? I'm now a little bit cross, John. I didn't realize that during the live tour that she goes on the live tour with him and that she, the tour came down to Paul.
I missed the opportunity to go and get close to Evelyn Pollock. I asked if you wanted to go to it. You said no. Oh, man. I didn't know everyone in hollow was going to be there. I was going to give out flyers for our podcast. Don't do that. well next time if they do come back i will i will go and because i would like to shout i love you like this out middle-aged man and they can throw me out i've got your book please sign it
I also did very much enjoy last night the kind of spooky ghost episode of This Country, which is very weird. Yes! It's not explicitly ghostly at all. No, but that's why it's good. It's weird and it's a bit of a homage to Blair Witch. Yes. But actually, what's in the tent is more horrifying than you can probably imagine. So, yeah, that was good fun. We enjoyed watching that last night.
I don't know if there's anything else that I've watched that's kind of horror-y recently. Have you two got any... I'm trying to think. Have you got any something horrific this week? My only thing is, as I said, I re-watched Heretic again the other way, and I did think actually that is very good.
Now, I enjoyed it first time out. I thought, I probably won't watch that again. But now, having watched it a second time, I did really enjoy it. So that's a big tick, again, for me. Highly recommend that. Oh, I was... I really enjoyed the... The end of What We Do in the Shadows was the last episode of that. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was very cute. And I, yeah, just really like those characters. And I thought, yeah.
Yeah, I'm definitely going to go back and watch that again. I tried showing it to the kids in the first episodes. quite dirty and I had to quickly turn it off. You hadn't done your due diligence. You remember certain things, block other bits out, don't you? And then it becomes very front and centre. You're watching it with a 13-year-old? Yeah. So I was on the radio this week in BBC Radio Wales. I was in BBC Radio Wales in Wales.
which is in South Wales, talking to the legend who is called Roy Noble, who anyone in Wales will have heard of, about a new project I've got where I'm trying to collect ghost stories. that are passed down within a family or within a kind of work environment. Amazing. So I'm looking at stuff to do with... factories, mines, that kind of post-industrial kind of vibe.
So that was really good fun, actually. And it was quite weird to go into the BBC, the huge BBC building in the middle of Cardiff. And there was only probably only about 10 people in there. It was very... post-zombie apocalypse. It looks so different from when I used to work there. Is it at Klanduf or have they moved it? No, no, no. It's outside the station in the middle of the garden. Oh, right, because I've worked at the Klanduf one. Yeah, Klanduf is long gone.
it's houses now oh that's a shame just looks like the one in London now doesn't it yeah exactly because I thought you were in London when I saw the pictures no No, no. Roy Noble then, here on BBC Radio Wales, now. A good ghost story is one of, well, my guilty pleasures as well. I was watching one on television last night, oddly enough. True stories. We've many good ones in wheels, but how do we pass them?
down from one generation to the other. And how may the story change as they passed on? John Pountney is an artist-based intraforest and looking for... those exact stories. And he's with me now. Johnny, very welcome to the programme. Thank you, Roy. Pleasure to have you here. Now, tell us about this project that you have in mind. Well... It was an idea that came to me to do something a bit different to my usual stuff.
So I'm very known for photography and painting, and I've done some hard work over the last few years, and I thought... Time to take it easy. Yeah. And do something a bit more light-hearted. And I thought, oh, why not ghost stories? Right. And the kind of inspiration came from M.R. James, the famous Victorian writer. All right. Who wrote a story which was called An Evening's Entertainment.
which is about a grandmother relating ghost stories to her grandchildren. And that kind of gave me the idea of how we... collect ghost stories, or stories in general, you know, not just ghost stories, and how they were originally entertainment in the days before radio and television, but now they're kind of... How are they collected and how are they recorded?
as opposed to a time when they weren't really recorded or collected. Well, you've mentioned grandmothers, indeed. I would add some more into that. powerful in lots of families, aunties. I don't think there are as many aunties about these days as there used to be. I lived in a street of 22 houses. Well, exactly. And I had 22 aunties. And they sometimes came to... Well, one incident weekly was there were ladies on the street would gather in my grandmother's back kitchen and I would sit underneath
The kitchen table, a big one, with a tablecloth coming down the side like a tent. And they would have coal fire. They wouldn't put the... put a light on to save the shilling in the meter. And so they would talk about general talk about the neighbours, but also stories. And these came out. And they were incredible. That sounds excellent. And there aren't as many aunties about that one thing. No. They were a source of research.
Well, your auntie sometimes was a lady you weren't even related to, wasn't it? Well, in that street, I got 22 aunties, but I don't think one was related to her. Yes. So I was just thinking, how do we... do we still have those ghost stories and are they passed down through families? Yes. And that's what I'd really like to try and find out, how they're passed down.
A lot of my work has been to do with industry in Wales and a post-industrial setting. And I was wondering if people had stories about those kind of factories or mines or... You know, the ironworks and all those kind of places. Well, heavy industry like that, of course. Yes. There were many accidents. Exactly, yeah. And therefore, you know, many, you know, coal mining accidents, you know, went up in the hundreds of fatalities. And you wonder...
Was there any time in any house or any setting or any place or any pit site that had closed that people had noticed something or heard something? Yes. So they could be, couldn't they? I think so, definitely. I've heard... Stories myself, or I've read stories that are about here in the miners' boots.
to the mine years after the mine has closed you know first thing in the morning and I'm just wondering with modern life now with smartphones and donald trump and all these kinds of things are there still times for telling stories to each other about ghouls and ghosts and things that go bump in the night yes quite an old-fashioned kind of
That's right. A way of entertaining yourself, you know. Yes, because I'm associated with the Aber Valley Heritage Group, and they are the ones who run the museum centred on St Henneth. Yes. And St Henneth lost 440 men in their main...
disaster, which was the biggest in Britain, but there was one just before, well, just, I say, before, it was actually 12 years before, and there were 81 there. Kilvanded was another. Gresford in the north was another. In all over the place, and there could be stories from all over these places.
So, have you been to any of these places, or are you centering on the Rondine? Well, very strange that you say that, Roy, because I did two years' work in the Abba Valley up to last year. I did some work with Siddy. And I did a lot of work to do with the Eglacillin Common and all of the kind of Stone Age stuff up there that they've got. And it was kind of inspired by those thoughts of the ghosts of those kind of places that I came up with this idea. I didn't know that you were...
did stuff to do with the... Well, I was a teacher there, you see. Oh, right, OK. And there was one fatality in our house as well. Oh, no way. My grandfather was... Good Lord. I remember that. I was about... Eight years of age. Yeah. And I remember the day, indeed, when they brought his body home. Yeah. But that was just a one-off, you see. Yeah, so I spent a lot of time up there. And, I mean, this project now is to do with the Rhonda and RCT specifically.
because it's the RCT arts community that are funding this through the council. So they are funding the project. So I'm doing stuff in Abder, I'll be doing stuff in Ponty, I'll be doing stuff in Triorki. And what we'll probably do, I think, is have a kind of...
at the end of the project, which will be in October for Halloween. Have you come across John Geraint in Trioghi? Because they have a radio station there, a local radio station, and there are lots of people, and the great attraction to the radio station is people coming in.
to say their story. Oh, no way. Yeah, and to say a story from the locality that other people in the locality may not know. Ah, OK. They have been recommended to me, and GTFM in Ponte as well, so I'll be getting in touch with both of those. ASAP. I came to see your good self first, and then I was going to move on to... The micro radio stations or are they mini or micro radio stations? I'm not sure what you'd call them.
Small. No, they're community. Well, yes, that's a very good word, and it's probably a lot more flattering than a micro radio station. Absolutely. So there are possibilities there, because they do have these... And they need to be passed on orally because that gift and habit is gone. Exactly, yeah. And that's what I'm really interested in and kind of fascinated by is...
Those stories you heard about someone giving someone a lift in their Austin 1100 and when they got to the destination, they looked in the passenger seat and there was no one there. You know, it's those kind of stories that I remember reading in... Ghost books when I was little. Yeah. You mentioned M.R. James now. Yeah. Are there other writers that inspired you or you're a fan of?
I read an awful lot of Victorian ghost fiction, yeah, so it's all that kind of era. E.F. Benson as well is a particular favourite of mine. He also did the Map and Lucia novels. which were very popular in the kind of 20s and 30s. But I... I pretty much only read Victorian ghost fiction or stuff to do research with projects, you know, that I'm doing.
usually stuff about the industry, you know, industrial history of Wales. Well, I'm going to thank you, John. We'll continue this conversation now. We'll have a little break from music, OK? No problem. Yes, Celine Dion, because you love me. Well, I said we'd had a few Canadian singers. Here's another one, actually. And, well, happy birthday again to the American, to the Canadian flag then, the maple leaf. And it went back only to 1965, of course. But with me now is John Pound.
And he, in fact, is after, well, stories that you may have. He's looking for ghost stories. But really... Gusto is from industrial areas of Wales and he's centred on the valleys of South Wales at the moment. He may spread himself out. across the entire nation, of course. John, now this project stem is from your photography and your painting, but mostly from your photography. Yeah, that's right. So how did the Industrial Revolution end? first become the focus of your work?
It's been a long and kind of insidious process, really. A bit like a kind of infection in my system, really, where... The first place I started taking photographs was down the Splatfall shore in Cardiff. Oh, right. Which, unlike a lot of beaches, is not made of sand, it's made of brick. The beach? Yeah, the whole beach, where there's the Welsh Water Sewage Works. It's not the most salubrious place for an afternoon, but basically it was made up of slum clearance.
and the Eastmore Steelworks, which was in that part of Cardiff in the 70s. And a lot of streets and the steelworks were pushed into basically the sea there, flattened out. And if you have a wander along, you can see all the different names of the different kind of brick manufacturers from all over Wales and beyond. And just after that, I did a project up in Kavartha Castle. which was to do with the crochets. And I sort of started seeing... parallels between all the work I was doing.
And that started me on this long journey through all these different landscapes. Yes, in a previous life I was in... Well, in the Nice Valley as well, I was headteacher of Pontius Vaughan School. And around the bends of the river there, there were several buildings. All had been separated from each other in case of explosion because they were...
doing dynamite there and preparing explosives. And in fact, they used a lot of bricks. They made bricks in that area and in the Dinas area. And they stamped the bricks, each brick, Dinas. And a lot was sold to Russia. Oh, no way! So, actually, the Russian word for brick, I believe, is Dinas. Dinas! They took it on board. That's crazy, isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
So now then, you're working in the Rhonda, grant as it were, or support anyway, to be in RCD, and it comes hand in hand with ghost stories. Have you come across any? Not yet, no. This is... This programme has been my first stop. And I had a chat the other day with a guy who was a ghost hunter or paranormal investigator. And he told me a lot of stories. He's been doing it for 12 years. and maybe more interested in the stories themselves. than being scared out of my wits. Right. Following...
The ghouls and goblins round. So it's maybe hearing about other people's experiences more than experiencing the ghost. Yes. There are beyond that, of course, places of industry and industry bases. I'm thinking about Copper and Swansea. And then, of course, Port Halbert you know the works there which is under threat always under threat and Blenavon was hugely historical as well I've done a lot of work in Blenavon as well so yeah I was an artist in residence up there
in 2018 when they had a thing called the Man Engine Visit, which was a thing with Cadu. So it was this tremendous, statue of a miner that had come up from Cornwall. And we did a lot of work around his visit to the World Heritage Site. fallen in love with all these different landscapes around Wales and I've documented an awful lot of them now. Well, interesting that you say that because a few years ago now I borrowed a Honda
Goldwing trike. Nice, yeah, lovely. And I did a series in Welsh, going around the valleys only. Oh, OK. Visiting places. And the thing that intrigued me was... Other people in Wales kept saying, well, I never knew that. I never knew that about the valleys. They had this image about the valleys. Even Cardiff people had an image about the valleys. But they were interested suddenly in having it opened up because I confined the journeys.
to the values. So people don't know that. They're interested to know, aren't they? I think so much of this history is hidden in plain sight. It's right under people's noses. You know, you've got the... what they call the electric house, or the kind of, it's like a big engine shed in Tonopandi, where the Tonopandi riots.
started yes people drive past it every day but they have no idea what it is across from there they've got the statue of hood who was the guy who uh archibald hood who um opened the the the uh mine there the pit there And people just don't know the history, which is literally under their feet, you know, quite often in Wales. And it's a real shame. And I do think that, particularly with the valleys, could be the biggest... open-air museum in the world for industry. Yes. With some...
forward planning and vision, and you'd have people coming from all over the world to see this stuff. You know, the... the first train journey. Indeed, in most it did. But actually, when you talk about ghosts, it's another dimension of this tale, isn't it? You know, it will be tremendously exciting. So how are you hoping to share the stories now that you collect? By a programme like this, getting it out there and people coming back to you? Well, what I'll probably do is...
When I, if and when I hear from people is go and visit the people and maybe photograph them, make portraits of them and then record the stories. And then obviously the first kind of phase of the plan is to have this. session where we share the stories for Halloween. which will probably be in the Park and Dare in Triorkee. Triorkee, yeah.
up the Rhondda. So I think that's something that's really exciting is that, you know, the idea that obviously the Park and Day was paid for by the penny and the pound from the miners. If we can share some of those ghostly stories in there, I think that... works really nicely that that really suits that kind of event, you know, to have it in a place like the park. That's right. Well, I hope next week that we have...
Delith Bader. Very well. Well, I know Delith really well. She's going to be talking about something that she's found. Yes. And, you know, they're from, well... charms yeah she's found in envelopes fantastic and she's both bought them and of course the charms are to give you good luck yeah but there's also the converse which is the curse yeah you know the Dean Hussbeth yeah
It would prefer to give you the charm, of course. She lives opposite me on the valley. So, yeah, she lives in one of the roundhouses of... William Price, who invented cremation. Yes, indeed. So we kind of face each other. So I'm on the other side in Traforest. I'm always intrigued with the two roundhouses. Yeah, fascinating. Because they were apparently gatehouses one day. And if you go through them, it's almost kind of a stone...
Vertical face. Yeah, it is. It's not a huge field in a manor house. No. No. No, it's the precipice. There we are. Extraordinary. Now then, how do they contact you? I'd love for people to email me. So my email address is J-O-N. It's not J-O-H-N. So make sure you get that right. It's J-O-N at M-A-X. a double t dot co dot uk so it's jon at m a x a double t dot co dot uk or i'm really easy to find on social media i'm on i'm on I'm on Blue Sky. I'm on Instagram.
So, yeah, you can find me quite easily, John Pountney. John Pountney is the name. Yeah. And we'll sort of mention it again before the programme. Oh, happy days. Great. John, intriguing to talk to you, very interesting to talk to you. Good luck to you.
Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure to be here, Roy. I hope indeed that we have, you know, that we have been a kind of a lorry that brings you all your stuff now in a mound that you can deal with. Thank you very much, John. Thank you. Thank you so much. Indeed. And now then, next piece of music is... Well, McFly. Nothing to do with ghosts, I would have thought.
Gemma Witchfather notices our new zine should be coming out soon by the time this episode comes out. When's that? It's going to come out on May Day. What? Yeah, so it should be coming out in May. So we're here talking in May, and this comes out in May, yeah? No, no, this episode will come out in... May Day. You just said May Day. No, the zine's going to come out on May Day. This episode will come out in...
April. April. Yeah. So that will be coming out soon. So go to our website, generalrichfinders.com to see if the zines come out yet. As we mentioned earlier in this episode, we're on Blue Sky now, so come and find us on Blue Sky at General Witch. And I should... We don't talk about this enough as well. We are on Patreon as well. If you want to get... So apologies, there are quite a lot of ads on this podcast, but it's...
because it costs money for us to host this and some of the software which we use to make it. We have to pay for that as a subscription. So you can help us by becoming a patron. Again, you can find links to that on generalwitchfinders.com. If you join, you get the episodes before everyone else and you get them without any ads. You also, I think there's at least... two episodes just for you guys just for the patrons there's at least
Two episodes. Two additional episodes and extra bits as well. What are those episodes, Cleves? Oh, I can't remember now. We did on The Worst of the Worst. Oh, that was good. Oh, yes. Yes, that was excellent. So we go through to try and identify the worst one ever, and there's one way. And what did we decide it was? Okay, no, no. You're going to have to... Give us some money to go and find out.
Was it the Fearless Vampire? Not Fearless Vampire. What's it called? Seven Golden Vampires. I can't remember. Or was it the one with the Jumbo Jet and Robert Powell? I'm not sure. That was bad as well. Yeah, I can't remember. And also on there, there's an episode where we watch...
Zach Bagans go to Skim, which are right. Amazing. Yes. Amazing. Yeah. And we will probably do some other additional bits. There's Jamie's reading quite a disturbing... ghost story with some graphics sexual violence in it so if you want to hear james talk about that that'd be good um why not i'm willing to do more yeah yeah not sexual violence let me make that explicitly clear i think they're playing in um
island white festival next year aren't they sexual violence yeah but yeah lots of good stuff so it's all yeah lovely and we'll keep adding things on there yeah yeah Cool. Maybe I'll read an M.R. James story. Yeah. Be nice. Yeah. There's a little video of John at Christmas telling a ghost story on there as well. You can go watch that. Oh, that was good, wasn't it? And do you know what? Danny Robbins didn't touch that with a barge pole. Coward. Coward. Dirty, dirty Britpop bastard.
See, I'm not allowed to say. I don't like his presenting style, but you can call him a dirty bastard. It's in a whole different stratosphere, please. Okay. little peek behind the curtain that we're actually recording these faster than we normally would. So we've got to add an extra episode into our... schedule and John was saying that Doom Watch has come back on talking pictures yeah
And Doomwatch is a series which you've always thought we would cover, so we decided that we're going to try and slot Doomwatch in. So we're going to watch an episode of Doomwatch called Tomorrow the Rat, because we do have a history of rats in this podcast. Interestingly, I did see earlier that Taigon also did the Doom Watch. Future film. Yes. Which is very weird.
Well, thanks for listening as always, everybody. Do subscribe to us on Patreon or give us any form of feedback whatsoever. Any amount of money. We'll take anything. My top code is 308096. Lovely. There you go. Until next time. Love, light and peace. Wherever you are in this beautiful world. Bye. You have been listening to The General Witch Finders.
Support the show and continue the conversation at patreon.com forward slash General Witch Finders. Subscribe and spread the word at generalwitchfinders.com. Farewell. And then there's super digging. There's food. And then there's Baker's Superfoods. Made with selected natural ingredients and tasty chicken. There's food. And then there's Baker's Superfoods. Must remember, do not forget. Remind me to bring photo ID Reminder set
Babe, can you make sure I don't forget my photo ID when I vote? Alright, love. However you remember, you'll need photo ID to vote on the 1st of May. Find out more at electoralcommission.org.uk slash voter ID. Oh. Which fucking film are we doing tonight? The Creeping Flesh Hang on, which fucking notes? All my notes look the same. It's just scrawled capital letters. I'm going to have to turn the light on. I can't see the bloody page.
How are you, by the way, Ross? You all right, mate? I'm all right. It's a bit bright to have the light on, but without it, I can't really see the page. You need one of these that I got. It's like a put it on your neck. Oh, yeah. I did have one like that to read with, but it just fell to pieces. That kind of reminds me of when Orbital used to have those glasses that had them on the side. Oh, yeah.
Is that why they did the Doctor Who theme? It's heart knoll rather than heart knell. Have you got new glasses, James? They look bigger than the same ones. Interesting. Am I sat slightly closer to the screen? It's exactly the same way. I don't know, you look more like Joe 90 than usual. Cool. I was a headstone, I thought, with a cheap bed. A little bit of headstone.
yeah okay not not the current insane heston that is um this one i think was somebody being nice to me but i did have a parent say that they that they were like oh has anyone told you you look like josh brolin And I said, no. They went, oh, you do. You've got a very similar face to Josh Brolin. That's weird from a person. That's fabulous. Yeah.
As Thanos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they were like, oh, do you know the man who's Thanos in the Marvel films? Yes, that's Josh Brolin. Oh, has anyone ever told you you look very similar to him? I said, I've got a lot of lookalikes, but I've never had that one. I can kind of see it as a randler. It's always the cheeks. There's not a fire in your house as a John. It's getting really...
Just the heat of John. It's really smoky. Intense passion. I think it's a chromatic aberration on my lens from the... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. shown off of his ceramic aberrations do you like that yeah I like it She's bought some peanut chocolates. Oh, she's bought some snacks. Lovely. Delicious. Hi, house. Get on camera. There she is. Look. Hello. Peanut chocos.
She loved that. Look how happy she is now. She's one of her favourite people. I'm watching a weird film. She's watching a weird film. Full stop with subtitles. What is it, George? That's why I had the... Person in the world? It's called the worst person in the world. It's about me, Cleaver says. It's Norwegian. It's Norwegian. It's got subtitles. Okay. It's quite good, but I'm having to concentrate. She's got to concentrate.
Say it again, please. We can hear her. You don't need to repeat what she's saying. Oh, you can hear her, can you? Sometimes it doesn't pick up. She can't hear us. That's the way around. No, she can't hear you. No, thank God.
So what happens now? Kylie with Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. Right, well, Madonna is very, very happy because she's going to be working with Jimmy Nail in the new film of Vita soon. I'm ecstatic because I'm just introducing him. Great song, great words, great melody about a great river. One of my fave TV shows is spending with Jimmy now, who last had a record out in the mid-80s, but it's been worth the wait, exclusive to Top of the Box. Here's Jimmy, ain't no doubt.
He had a massive success last year, but he's uncompromising with the music business with crocodile shoes. or to say name. He's about to embark on a set-out UK tour. Is there no stopping this tour? Jewelry person. Everybody wants to play with him, so you see Jimmy now! Into July we go, Andre Agassi won Wimbledon. I had a massive party and watched Lethal Weapon 3. And Jimmy now, well he was number one. When I'm wearing tenor silhouette underwear, bladder weakness is the last.
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Which is why, even though we love glasses, some things are easier with contact lenses. Book a free trial at specsavers.co.uk. T's and C's apply. Fireworks not included. Remind me to bring photo ID. Babe, can you make sure I don't forget my photo ID when I vote? All right, love. You'll need photo ID to vote on 1 May. Find out more at electoralcommission.org.uk slash voter ID.