Love this podcast? Support this show through the ACAST supporter feature. It's up to you how much you give and there's no regular commitment Just hit the link in the show description to support now So we're potentially only doing the one episode. I'll see how we get on. I'm trying to force James to sleep. To force him to sleep. SLEEP! SLEEP! Britain, an ancient kingdom with legends of violence, cruelty and torment in its blood.
Join your hosts, Ross, John and James, as they bravely tread where few would dare. Witness that journey. with the history of British horror. They are... The general witch finders. So ladies and gentlemen, goblins and girls, welcome back to the... episode of the General Witchfinders podcast for one night only. I'm James in Dorchester in southern England. I'm John Poundly in the south of Wales, which is still in the south.
but today I was in the west of Wales. And I am Rossum Dorchester. This time we became part of Doomwatch. Did we? Apparently so. time we watched episode four from doom watch series one tomorrow the rat written by terence dudley it was first broadcast on the second of march 1970 a full four years before The Rats, which we covered way back I, Ross, think it seems very likely that Herbert was watching this on broadcast. Bloody hell. 100%.
Doomwatch was a British science fiction series produced by the BBC, which ran on BBC One between 1970 and 1972. It was set in what was then the present day, following a government scientific... played by John Paul. Their job? Investigating and intervening in various environmental... The series was the brainchild of Jerry Davis and Kip Peddler, the same duo who cooked up the Cybermen for Doctor Who. Davis was the Doctor Who story... Peddler was the show. advisor.
What sort of scientific advice do you need to be on Doctor Who where they just make it all up as they go anyway? Sorry. Sorry, guys. Sorry. Right. Their obsession with how science could mess things up for humanity was the seed that grew into do-match. Basically, it's the 1970s version of Black Mirror.
The first two series ran for 13 episodes each. The third had 12 episodes, although one of them, Sex and Violence, was never aired. Rumour had it that the BBC got cold feet because of its use of news footage. Plus it featured characters who were none too subtle. Cliff Richard and Lord Longford. I don't know what the Cliff Richard... What was the analogue of Cliff Richard doing in this story? If it was sex and violence, you know, was he like banging and thumping you and stuff?
Maybe he was the, um, it's Una Stubbs, not Una Subs. That's not what I've heard. You said analogue, and I think you mean analogy. Well, you know. Leave that in if you want, Cleves. And as with much of British TV from the era and before, chunks of it are missing. lost the time when the BBC recorded. its peak, Doomwatch pulled in a whopping 13 points. viewers for the episode Invasion. The lead character was Dr. Spencer.
a Nobel Prize winner, haunted by his role in the Manhattan Project and the creation of the first nuclear bomb. No way! Apparently so. Did you spot him in Oppenheimer? John Paul played him throughout, and you'll probably... about any British TV of the time. He played Agrippa in iClaudia. I always have to say, Eric Anderson. And propped up in both the Avengers and the new Avengers, most of the cast had appeared in one or the other.
Tobias Toby Wren, played by a then young Robert Powell. And very skinny Robert Powell. Very skinny. He looks like he's in a Britpop band, doesn't he? Who we covered extensively in our episode on the film The Survivor. Singular. Number 46, if you want to listen. Toby was a major character in series one and met a memorable and rather explosive end in the finale, Survival Code. Powell had only signed on for one series and told the producer...
So they blew him up. Apparently the BBC received more letters about his death. than they'd had on any subject. the second world war were people writing to the BBC to complain that the second world war was happening dear BBC dear points of view why oh why oh why are we still at war Hitler seems like a good man He got the trains running on time. And they point out in this episode that we did get motorways because of the Nazis. Yes!
As I said, we watched Tomorrow the Rat, for which Terence Dudley was on writing duties. Dudley was the producer of... and also directed three episodes. Later on, he produced Survivors. Yes. Which we will be... He also had a fair crack at Doctor Who directing Megalos in 1980 and writing three series. you can tell I'm not hooving can't you and writing three serials four to doomsday in 1982 Black Orchid also
The King's Demons. Lovely. In 1983, he even penned novelizations of the last two photographers. Oh, and apparently he also wrote Canine and Company. The first Doctor who's been on. Yes. Amazing. The first and best. There's a status in that, isn't there? We could do canine. Canine. It could be a good Christmas special, that one. I seem to remember like when I was getting to know John, I'm coming down to Cardiff a lot.
that one of the first things that sort of happened once was, I think we ran round to John's, and John had K9 and company on VHS. Yes, I did. I did. I never watched it. Because I'd never seen it. I would only ever get quite far in and then just turn it off and I don't know why I never finished it. Obviously, also in college, I did build K9. Yes. Yes. factoid. I once went to a read-through for the Sarah Jane Adventures to photograph Katie Manning and Liz Sladen for that set. Return.
Grant and in the read through I was canine Really? What? Yeah. Oh my god, John. Yes. Mistress. I'm starstruck. Did you do the voice? Yes. Of course, mistress. Of course, mistress. There was Matt Snoopers in that episode, wasn't he? Matt Smith was not at the read-through, master. Oh, who played him? I can't remember. don't do the whole episode affirmative master
I think I'm pretty good at catering. Were you hoping they said, ring John, tell him not to bother coming in. John Leeson on me. Yeah, John Leeson. Yes. And it was the other guy. because they did replace... But, yeah, so that was... Wow. 2009? That's going to end up in the Radio Times. I did save for a long time a bottle of Bracken Carrot. and a drunk out of. Thinking that I could sell it on eBay but then when we moved up here hell made me throw it out.
Simon Oates plays Dr. John Rich. We've seen him before in the dummy episode of Beasts, which we covered in episode 40. Apparently so. Yeah, I think he was like the lover of the guy who was... the dummies he's like in a cape and stuff yeah he's the one who sort of like winds up the guy in the dummies yes yes god I wouldn't have placed him at all actually
notes say that he also played Steed in the stage version of the Avengers. There was a stage version. Yeah, apparently so, yeah. Interesting. Crumbs. Interesting, not as good as the stage version of Hello, Hello, I'm sure. Of course, what could be? Penelope Lee plays Dr. Mary Bryant in this...
She auditioned to play Barbara, the Doctor's original companion and his granddaughters, but he didn't land the role. She did, however, go on to play the ninth elder in Richard Donner's Superman. Did she? Whoa! I imagine that's one of the Kryptonians. Guilty. Yes. Guilty. Barbara isn't the Doctor's granddaughter, Cleaves. That's Susan. Oh, okay. I'll cut that out. Yeah. All right. Barbara is the school teacher from London, 1963. Yes, sorry. Oh, cool. I will not allow that to go out.
I'm corrected. Just beep it. Yeah. And she provided the voice of Lynn Driver in The Plague Dogs, which, for the record, is one of the most horrific films Ross has ever seen, and is probably too traumatised to even approach it for this podcast. Did you ever see that? No, I've not seen that. It was made by the same people who did Watership Down. It's about two dogs who are tested upon and then they break out of a facility.
because they want to get back to their owners and the whole country goes mad trying to sort of like stop them spreading this plague they've got. Yeah, it's very recent. And finally, Hamilton Dice pops up as the minister. You might recognize him as Major General Scobian. The Doctor Who story, Spearhead from Space. Spearhead from Space. Yeah. Filmed entirely on 16mm film, which is why...
such a great transfer on Blu-ray. Interesting. We should probably look at that sometime. I think it's probably, we should do it, shouldn't we really? We should. Final episode. Go out with a band. When one of us dies. And as far as we can ascertain, none of this cast appeared in Boone. No. Yes. So do watch what amazing titles. Yeah. Is there a new, is there a mushroom cloud, please? Yeah. Yeah. It's got all of the things that people are scared of in the 70s. Yes. Correct.
Mushroom clouds, what else? Disease. TV static. TV going off. I'm always terrified if a TV's not on, I've got to turn the TV on. Like Ross G Davis, apparently, when he goes out, he leaves the TV on. Yeah. I always do. So what are your lot of channels you leave on, Jon? Either 128, which I think is... Is that really awkward? So it'll be, what's that? It sounds like a trumpet.
flat to get underneath a unit. That you didn't even know existed. Exactly. And a rat's going to come out of it. Crafting some tools. I think one, two, eight. Because it'll probably be Antics Roadtrap. Okay. I used to leave that on for Kitty because I didn't like to use to leave Kitty inside. Aren't you worried that leaving the TV on all day is just filling your house with vibes of antique shows and stuff like that and it's embedding into the walls? Our house is absolutely full of the vibes.
shows anyway because it's all I watch pretty much now as long as it's presented by I don't mind. I don't have a favourite TV pin-up anymore. You need to watch more antiques programmes. Catherine Southern or... Christina Trevannian is a bit of a hottie. A sabre on the gladiators in any of them. No, but they did bring back Hunter from the 90s gladiators. And Jet. Oh, okay. Now we're talking. What happens in this program? Well, there's a kitty in a pram and a rat. Oh, yes.
So, yeah, it's one of those things where you don't realise... This is like 50 years ago now, isn't it? It's more than 50 years ago. It's like 55 years ago. And I was saying to James, so much has changed. like in the in within almost our lifetimes. It's almost unrecognizable now. When I was saying this to James, it wasn't for this. It was when we was watching Superman 3 earlier and the TV and the computers on there were just insane.
but it looks, but when you're watching, um, and they got the little boy being pushed along in that push chair, which is pretty much what I look like in the kind of push chairs I was pushing around in. It looks like Eastern Europe from like the 90s. 20s or something, doesn't it? It's insane. I think that's why we as an age group identify it does look like when we were young or a bit like that but that's something I always think watching these programs and a lot How long people made stuff like-
And they'd close. People in the 80s were wearing, well, one of my teachers in high school in 1990, 1991 was blatantly still wearing a suit, he'd had from like 1970. which you wouldn't really come across now, would you? But also the fashions changed so wildly. I think a suit now from like 2005 wouldn't really look very different to a suit now. Whereas like Mr. Insult. flat tweet. And he used to wear a massive crew.
was our RE teacher. Yes. James, you wear a massive crease of X. Inverted. James, he drags one around on his back with a crown of forms on. That's right. So I do think that these programs kind of, they do remind you of those aspects that it was still like... For a lot of people, it was still the war. And I think they were quite pleased to be... It was the Cold War, though, was it? Yeah, to make a show of how little they had to live on sometimes. And I do find that with boomers now.
like they're the biggest consuming generation of all time. But they, and they created that world, but they're like, I grew up with rationing. And it's like, no, you didn't. No, your parents did. And that's all they fucking talked about. Yeah. And I think that's the world that Doomwatch, I think the world that Doomwatch describes is, and that's what Kit Pedler and Jerry Davis tried to do with Doctor Who, is to bring like modern science.
into quite a cosy world that's averse to change. Obviously, there's the Cybermen, which was to do with organ transplants and the possibility. made out of plastic and pacemakers and stuff like that but then also you've got all the different episodes of this series where they go through and then the film as well where the film is slightly different but um you do have all that The clash of...
Yeah, and like you said, a lot of new things were happening. So it was... Well, yeah, you know, it's the era of Man on the Moon when... You know, literally less than 100 years before that, people would just add horses and carts and stuff and steam trains. And then there's a man on the moon, which is true. And if anyone wants to fight me, I will fight them. I'll join in with that. It drives me fucking mad when people...
But what we're seeing here is something which seems to be was a massive fear in this era was wrath. So why do you think that was? Was it because...
that, like, bomb sites and stuff were still around, so rats were on there. There was, like, strikes where all the big, where rats were all over the... Late 70s, yes. Yeah. And it just felt like... I mean, even in a place like Birmingham... bin men weren't collecting the bin bags and there was piles of bin bags spilling streets and rats and that's happening right now that's my point absolutely yes but I think that's something which I talk about in our survivors
is that everything they were scared of at this point in time is actually happening now. Yeah, it's still the same thing. This episode is very... to do with you know genetic augmentation of It's not too dissimilar really to AI and stuff like that. It's like, oh, if we tweak to... If we tweak this rat too much, is it going to turn into a rat that can use a knife and fork to open a trap and stuff? Yeah, so going ahead, it was quite nasty. The little kid in this...
And this... is like calling to a rat going kitty kitty kitty and then the parents just start screaming because obviously the rat has killed the kid yes that's like a pre-titled is it and then you get pretty much the Doom Watch Doom title sequence and then we're straight into where this happened which is by a school And it's a bit corrupt.
the set, I thought, from when you used to watch Coronation Street in the 80s and all the rooms looked like the size of a shoebox. Yeah, because they all fit into one set. Yes! But again, so much stuff in this episode. Ended up in James Herbert's book. The school, the department who were there to try and clean it all up and everything. It's just mad how much he ripped off in this book. From the first minute, because I've never seen this before, I was like, oh, my God, this is literally life.
Just like waited a few years and then just rewrote it. Put more sex things in it. Although there was quite a bit of sex in this one. It was a bit weird like that, wasn't it? I thought some of the dialogue was really... Just very strange.
I'm struggling to remember anything that happened because I've made notes, but I watched it about a month ago. So all I can remember is these passing vignettes of what happened in the episode. So essentially they're trying to work out... why we've had so many different rat attacks and they realise that
That's a great name for a band, isn't it? And there's a guy who's like the minister and he's talking to a scientist and basically said, they're going to work out that we've been doing these genetic experiments on rats. And the head of Doomwatch is going to come and start asking questions. and the uh the female scientist um is basically saying well yeah but you told me i could do this and he's like yep
But have you got that in writing? And none of that happened here. And he goes, well, you told me to do it at home because it was easier to do that. So basically, he set her up. Yeah. And they are talking about how much money they have to spend on... trying to control the rat population and they thought if they did some kind of experiment which made the rats want to eat each other yes it would save them a lot of money That's what I thought. But I've got to say that this program really...
programs from this area don't treat the audience like idiots. Because if you miss dialogue, you've missed it. The story isn't explained to you 58 times. And they're talking about stuff and you're like, this is really highbrow. The dialogue is really highbrow. And you're like, I'm struggling to follow this because it's really fast. And I thought, are they saying they said something about cannibal? I was wondering, was that the point that they were trying to invent rats that would eat each other?
to keep the population down. But what they actually have done is then somehow given it samples of human flesh or something. So what we find out is that... The fear was that if they, because what they've actually done to make these rats more intelligent as well, and the fear was that they might start attacking humans. So the, as part of the... failsafe was they were doing some kind of aversion therapy on them to make them not want to eat not eat humans so they had a
In the lab, they had a plate with human flesh on it, which would give shocks to the rats if they tried to eat it. Oh, I see. So that they... Yeah, so they got up to the point where they would learn that human flesh would be... Painful. Painful, yeah. So at this point, I've said the other scientist is quite Thatcher-y. I'm not sure who I'm referring to there. And I've said cannibal rats. And then I've said, in quotes, I'm not a whore.
I think that might be the dodgy dialogue that I'm thinking of. Is this where she's in a bar and someone comes to proposition her? She gets rid of him, but then one of Doomwatch comes over and... She does the same routine to him. She basically says, I'm not a whore, but I do like having sex. But you said to the guy, but you're not up to my standards, so you've got no chance.
And I think it's just... It's very odd dialogue. It's so 60s, isn't it? 60s, 70s, and it's kind of like, you know... look how risque we are that we've got women actually admitting that they like having sex and we are actually outright talking about sex in a public, on television and stuff like that. So it's just like, this is Lake type risky TV, isn't it? Yeah. Well, I think it's a man writing his idea.
A woman's dialogue Talking to a man So that's always Only ever going to be What a man wants to hear So I just thought Just strange. The head of Doomwatch meets this female, the lady who's behind the rat experimentation. But he can't quite place her, but then he remembers who she is and sends out the Lefario. The guy who's got the neck and sheaves and the open neck shirts and stuff. He's a bit... Austin Powers. Austin Powers. Not the head and face, but the body and movement.
yeah and essentially he says go and have sex with this woman and find out get all the secrets yeah exactly But she does manage to pull her and get some of this information out. Yes. And they wake up the next morning and... I think someone's horse has been attacked by a rat. Yes. Which is quite a nasty... Is it in the paper? Is it...
read about it in the newspaper. It ends up going in the paper so a young girl goes to feed her horse in the morning and there's quite a nasty... Oh yeah, the guts! Yeah, well the guts of the horse all spilled out and stuff. Ah, the guts. Spilled your guts. I've done that. I'm this evening alone. Yeah. After that, with it, I'm not a whore, I've got written pics on the wall of mushroom cloud. so is there a
Do they have an office where they've got lovely photos of mushroom clouds on the wall? That's in the Doomwatch offices. That's a reminder. This is what we're fighting against, guys. Don't forget. I loved that. I just thought that's my teenage bedroom. That's like... to suede 1994 the asphalt world i've got i've got mushroom clouds in my eyes it made me think of um the quite a mass one where they're talking about the wall to prove that's what they do.
of the moon oh yeah it's a map isn't it so they can point to a bit of it later on yeah and it's like Everywhere you work, you must have a visual representation of what you do on the wall. But you've got to have the visual representation also. If your job was a TV program, what would the title sequence look like?
What type of sequence of your live TV programme, John? Well, I think mine would be a bit of camera, and the camera would move in closer to you, and then in the lens would become my face, like... Starfield Tom Baker Doctor Who title sequence and maybe I'd wink yeah and then it would do like a reverse and you would just see a toilet and the door
And then it would be the sound of a flush. That's how the episode would end. Yeah. In every episode, I have a phone number if you've been affected by anything. I was going to say the amazing scene, because I said to Ross as we were watching it, it's a bit slow. It's just a lot of blokes stood around in offices talking. That's life.
I know, I know. But for, you know, dynamism and TV and, you know, suspension of disbelief and all of that. But Ross just went, no, hang on a minute. Watch this scene. It gets really, really good in a minute. It gets really good. And it was when Robert Powell and... and John Paul stood around debating and talking about what's happened and they start to figure out that the rats are fashion tools.
and have escaped their traps. And they're like, we're talking about intelligent rats here. And the next thing you know, ratty is sapiens. And then they're suddenly attacked by the rats. And I said to Ross, it's slightly reminiscent of the rat scene from Fawlty's Hours. But like all of a sudden they were like, Robert Powell has got like a rat on him.
And Robert Paramount is going to get one attached and sort of smashing his head against the table. Whackamon. Which is incredible. And it's weirdly reminiscent. to the listener at home, if you've seen the tremendous movie, the Robert Eggers movie, The Light... It's very similar to what Robert Pattinson does. He grabs hold of a seagull in that movie and does very similar. It's just Robert Powell beating up a rat against the table. It's an amazing sequence. It is the key scene.
because it's in the Coronation Street-esque kitchen. Yes. And I think, are they coming in under their boiler or something? Yeah, there's a hole behind the boiler, yeah. And they've basically left traffic.
but they've worked out how to use nice and forks to keep the doors open and stuff which I think is a brilliant idea yeah but it's one of these things I can't remember there was another film where there was a similar kind of premise it's like They brought the lights and forks with them and they've used it to keep the doors up on the traps.
How would that work? They haven't got arms. You know, they've only got little paws and stuff like that. They haven't got opposable thumbs. Yeah, it's just like describing it doesn't mean it's possible. And then when you start picturing what that is, it just turns into like... like a cartoon or something, you know. It's about the sound of the rat.
It sounded like all the rat sounds we've heard in any 70s TV programme with rats in it. So at Barty's Party, there was the same rat sounds which were in that, like the scratching and the squeaking and stuff. Probably literally off the same LP that they've got somewhere. Yeah, but we're going back to when Robert Powell was in the house. They were telling the people in the house, okay, you go in the other room. We're waiting here. This is the mother who...
The child is being killed, isn't it? The child dies later on. The idea of, like, you were just going to someone else's house and just, like, start smoking in there. It was so weird. I watched a thing the other night with Harry H. Corbett being... On TV. 65, 66, and the interviewer's smoking, and then Harry H. Corbett gets out of ciggy, and he lights it while they're talking. And I just think, is that backwards, or are we backwards? Because it's like...
You watch stuff now, you put things on Netflix, and it's like, warning, cigarettes. Yeah. It's like, cigarettes don't offend me. No. Maybe they do young people. I don't know. I don't know what youngsters get up to these days, to be honest. Hel's been watching adolescence all day while I was in that. So she's... murdering schoolgirl
Where the fuck did all this come from? You don't have to put this in case. People talk about it at work, and if people at work talk about it, I'm not going to watch it. No, well, that's what Leah said. so he said he doesn't want to watch it but it's like Just the internet has sent 13-year-old kids insane. And that would have been on Doomwatch if Doomwatch was on today, wouldn't it? I think that's the biggest danger to society. The moment is left.
because it's an unregulated... It's driving them mad. Well, it's just an unregulated slew of what you want to see. And if you want to see videos about... anything has done you wrong, you can find those videos, can't you? So when we were growing up, you had three channels on TV, all made by very regulated professionals with their editorial standards. And now you've got...
No, it's so different because it's just everywhere. It's totally, totally just, it's like that guy, Jeff buys cars that came and bought. When I look at his stuff now, he's like... is now is the other side of reform. He's like literally for like sterilizing everyone and fucking blowing up the world and stuff. But his channel is ostensibly about buying old Volvos.
It's just mad. I think it's all. And I think that would be... And I'm surprised... I don't really watch Black Mirror, but I'm surprised Black Mirror... how insane the internet is where you can just get any mad content that just backs up your world for you. Speaking of which, if you want to get early access to our podcast with no ads, sign up today for Patreon. Yeah, very good. Very good. Where are we up to now? Because I've said... Live vision mixing. Intelligent rat. Rat attack.
Seduction in trousers and addressing... It's just like an incredible cryptic crossword. There is a scene where the Austin Powers guy is in the war. yeah this is post-coital that's when they're having a discussion about the is it right for her to play God with the genetics of animals? And she starts talking about...
a sort of natural selection of humans. Yes. And, and he starts saying, you know, this is kind of eugenics and basically the last she's did. And she starts saying, yeah, but at the same time, the last she did do some good things, like, like give us the motorway and stuff. She hasn't been on the M5 to Exeter has she? So I've written down here, you're not a woman, you're a biologist. Weird emancipation dialogue. No drama would have dialogue like that.
the day. We spent it on for so long. But again, it's the scenes in it are really long, aren't they? I was thinking there would be no drama for anyone with these type of accents anymore. No. They were so upper class. All RP. All RP, yeah. Is that your cat or my cat? So now is the bit with the horse with its guts out. The scientist is called into the office and there's a cover-up. They're basically trying to... Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So then I've said rat test what happens in the...
test. I think that's where they drip some... She's trying to prove that none of these rats will attack humans, but she said, one, they're all sterile, and if they did escape, there would all be... dead by now yes um and then she's saying but also they've been conditioned not to eat human flesh so they give us they give us some peanuts they give us some uh human flesh where they're getting the human flesh from is not really
Yeah, I did question that. Yeah, and then Robert Powell accidentally cuts his finger and then he drips some blood in there and the rat goes nuts and they go, they're like sharks! So is it explained at any point how they're not sterile? I missed that bit. Yeah, so did I. Because then there's a bit where they go into her little laboratory.
Yeah, so she's basically saying there's no way they can get out. This is completely sealed. I haven't even been in there. But they go in there and they check all the walls and then they realise that the special electrifying... which is a sort of condition not to eat human flesh, has been tampered with. And they've made a little... Lever. They've invented the lever, yeah. Yeah, to lever up a thing in order to get across a hole which they've made behind the panel.
They have escaped. Yes, which I absolutely loved that these little bastards have invented the lever. Because I think, get rid of female... Humanity is fel- And if Rance take over, I'd be like... Fine, fine. I just go and jump off a bridge and drive my car into a wall and then the rats... I can imagine becoming king of the rats, John. The rat king. Maybe I would start to transmogrify into a rat and my truth would come out. Like Splinter.
Is he not just a giant rat? Well, it all depends. It's different, wasn't it, James? The cartoon in the comics was slightly different. I think in... The comics, was he a man that turned into a rat? Yes. In the cartoon, he was a rat that turned into a man. Oh, okay. So I've said the main guy is quite the doctor in this, which I think I don't.
mistake or a deliberate thing, but he's quite hectoring and kind of patrician and points at people a lot, doesn't he? I do feel like the Doomwatch group is too big. There's too many characters. Maybe that's why they blew up one of them at the end of the... Yes, it's more than a TARDIS crew, isn't it? You'd never have that many people in the TARDIS. Unless you're Chibnall. The more the better. The more the merrier.
so then i've written rat out of a toilet i don't know oh yeah is that the follow-up to bat out of hell i'm not sure yes No, I was going to say, that's the album that Jim Steinman made when he went out on his own without Meatloaf, and it failed really badly. One of my good memories and exciting... things like that, was once the night before the Stones played in cards. I was going on my way into jumping jacks.
and I could hear the Stones doing their sound check, and they played Bitch off Sticky Fingers, which I don't think they played live. And then I had to go into Jumping Jackson. To things like sex on a beach. And the theme to play March 4 times. And Eiffel 65's Blue. Yes. My memory of jumping Jackson Bournemouth was like that.
the drinks would go up after a certain time so people would buy loads and line them all up on a shelf and you'd have to get someone to protect the drinks while we went to dance. And there was one time I was in there and the fire alarm was going off all night and they just carried on playing the music over the top. Why not? Yeah, of course. We probably did that. Yeah. And they'd be dancing around someone in a wheelchair and the person in the wheelchair looked...
They were quite distressed, but I said, are they okay? And they said, no, she's loving it. That's fine. We used to have VK Blue and VK Cherry. And I remember that spilling onto tables and people would wipe it off and it would take the varnish off the table. And people would drink it.
It would be like, pay a pound to get in and get five bottles of this shit. Yeah, there was a guy walking around there with a fake lanyard taking pictures of people pretending he worked there. No. We used to have Mike the Milk, who was this horrible old man who would come in with apple pies and stuff he'd supposedly... and baked for the staff, and they'd all be like, oh, thanks, mate, that's great.
We should explain to this as why you went to Jumping Jacks quite so often, John. I was paid to be there. Yeah. I was the photographer. Yeah, I was the club photographer in Cardiff. 2004 to 2008, some of the best years of my life spent with TV's Danny Dyer, Aswad, Aswad. He's 17 without Tony Mortimer. 9-11 as I like to call them. I can't think of who else we have. Jason Donovan.
Yeah, it was the real graveyard slot at that point. But then a few of them now have had quite a comeback. I mean, Danny did a massive comeback. That's a career renaissance, man. He was insane. for quite a while sat on the fire escape stairs. verify that The club was full of soul crew football hooligans who had come in because he's in football films. Yes. He was on stage for about two minutes. The doorman couldn't control these... So he went and locked himself in a shower cubicle with two women.
And he wouldn't come out until like 3am. And then I was just sat chatting to him because I was like... It's not as weird as being the voice of K9. In a read-through. Actually, that's quite a mad selection of stuff. But it's strange that photography really has led me into all of those odd places. which is quite strange actually isn't it i've never thought of it like that um but yeah we had all the high street high
Was that an official term or something you called it? Yeah, from FHM magazine. It might be more Ross for you in Australia. FHM for him magazine and it's absolute zenith. I started doing this thing where they basically got women who worked in supermarkets and pubs. Let's say, send him pictures of you in your pants and we'll publish them in the magazine. It was like a very, very vanilla Reader's Wives. Yes. And then they did every year, they did like a free special booklet.
That was like the best of the year. But then we had, I think we had Lucy P. who was one of the main ones. But she, I saw her years later. As my dad would say, she was healthy. That's how my dad would describe her. Years later, I saw her on a program and she was like the biggest Tory of all time. Fuck, that's mad, like... You've led this mad life, but you're actually a massive Tory. That's like Holly Willoughby, who is now basically a Nazi. Yeah.
Subhuman Scott. I was always on Philip Schofield's side. No, no, no. Oh, God, no, no. I'm saying the wrong person. Not Hollywood. right that's because Ross has been trying to show the girls Holly Willoughby videos earlier yeah I was trying to find a clip where she was where she was by herself and um It just wouldn't let me find it on the YouTube. I kept using voice recognition going, Holly Willoughby wets herself in front of my kids over and over.
The person I was talking I actually met was Hollywood oh yeah she's dreadful she's a horrible yeah absolutely did she not want to stand for Reform, yeah. Yeah, just absolute scum. Holly Willoughby, I apologise, but I'm sure you might actually be enough. A lot of TV people are a bit like that because they're always like, I got here through hard work and determination. It's like... Nonsense.
Right, we're nearly at the end, aren't we? So they've invented the lever. The main gun, rat out of a toilet, rat attack. So we have like a montage of rat attacks with rat headlines. And this is basically... The plot of the rats attack a school. Yes. Rats come out of a toilet and attack someone. Rats in space. Rats in space. Rats in cupboards. No rats gnawing off the penis, only tramps. No tramps, not tonight.
So that's probably the only original content to the rats we can give to James Herbert. Yes. Whereas everything else was cribbed from this. And then they basically just said, okay, we need to pour a load of chemicals down the drain. Yeah. But they do find that the rats have been farming mice to eat them as... We need to go on to that part in a minute. I've got to say, this sequence really reminded me of Spearhead from Space.
when all the Autons come to life in episode four and they come out through the shop windows and shoot everyone in the street, which you wouldn't again have on television. People like burning to death after being shot by plastic robot aliens. Yeah, the bit where they're farming money. In like the tube tunnels or something. And then you look in and it's like a wasp's nest type thing. Yeah, they build like rat toys. I loved it. I thought that was amazing.
I thought, right, I want episode two of this where they have to go into like... The rat hive and... The flamethrower. Yeah! It's like the thing or something, isn't it? Yeah. It's brilliant. But that isn't explored at all, is it, really? No, no. Because then, as you say, Cleves, they're like, yeah, okay, there's too many rats, we've just got to pour all this shit. So basically, they've used up all the runtime having long conversations.
in like really boring rooms yes and now they're just gonna tip all this poison down down the the plug on have a montage of actual real rats actually dying yes but they said also it might not be too good for cats and But then the kind of weird, incredibly bleak ending is that we go to the scientist who's... stuff, to find that the mother of the dead child has found her. Very Jaws-esque, I suppose. Yes, a spit-satter. Yeah, repeatedly.
Horrific. Yeah. You don't see people spitting on people in television. No, it was really vicious. And then the ending is incredibly bleak where... I can't remember how it happened. So basically, the mother tries to stab the scientist. Oh, there's blood. Yeah. Yeah. She manages to overpower and then the woman breaks down and leaves, but she's cut her arm. And she walks back into her sort of rat lab. And then...
Lefario from Doomwatch who's got all dressed up in a tuxedo and a bow tie to come and shag her. He looks lovely, doesn't he? He does say, I'm going to get myself dressed up and look wonderful and come over and have sex with you, even though she's just been reading in the newspaper that loads of people, including school children, have been dying and died based on...
To get you in the mood. Romantic ambiance. We're still going to have sex, I don't care about the contract. Put a Mantovani record on and have some fondue or something. turns the lights on which something I realise and this happens in um survivors as well. When they turn the lights on, they don't flick on because they can't do that in a TV studio. They have to fade up. Yes. The lights fade up and they find...
The flayed leg. Nord corpse. Nord corpse. Really quite horrific. Hugely horrific, yeah. Body of the scientist who's been killed by her own. Creations. Because I thought at this point, oh, she's a really good character, she's a good actress, maybe they're going to... the series or something because I don't know about Dim Watch but no they're going to actually have her eaten by her own rats which I was just like wow another thing that they wouldn't do on TV today
Absolutely no way. Yeah, very shocking ending. The end. So I did one of the scores on the doors, fellas. You go first. Oh, OK. I, having watched earlier, I watched the one... Survivors and bearing in mind how good Survivors was immediately watching this it did feel Oh, interesting. And there was a lot of just men, as we said, stood around in rooms talking. So even though it was, I admire the idea.
Let's try and do... team combating things that you know scientific scares and things which go threats to humanity i did feel it was a pretty dry old affair so i've got to say so it's two for me I'm giving it a three. Three. Three. Three. Yeah, I just... I really like TV from this era and it felt to me like the film version of The Rats and it's something which... I've always wanted to see since I watched the rats as a kid. You read the rats. I read the rats.
since I read the rats as a kid. So I got to see that. And it's also, I like Robert Powell and it was good to see him in his skinny younger years. But yes, I think it's just a little bit too slow. I am going to actively seek out the other available episodes of Do Watch and just see what other things they do cover. Yeah, I felt the same. going to watch
They are repeating them on Talking Pictures, Cleve. Yeah, that's why we did those, wasn't it? Is it? Yeah. As you said, they're shown to watch on Talking Pictures. Maybe we should cover one of them. Maybe I've just forgotten huge chunks of the past year. Compared to Survivors, I agree with you, James, that the first episode of Survivors does have quite an epic feel and spread to it, which maybe doesn't continue throughout the series because they end up...
This is quite slow, but again, I do like, like you say, Cleaves, I do like TV of this era where you kind of, the dialogue is allowed to... run whereas you know if you watch something now like Elizabeth Elizabeth the one with Glenda Jackson or you know the Keith Michelle Henry VIII the episodes are just people talking in rooms for days and it's quite hard to watch now because I don't know if people then were more used to going to see... And, you know, and a player would be...
Yeah, but if you watch Wolf Hall, at least they say something. Some of the episodes of Wolf Hall is just Mark Rowland looking at a painting. No, I disagree with that. I do love Wolf Hall. It's great. It's something you just need to get used to watching. Yes. I never really got on with it because I thought it looked quite odd and it was lit in quite a strange way. But I did enjoy this and I would give it a three. Because of its kind of good, wholesome, post-apocalyptic 70s dread.
therefore basically yeah well I think you know we've watched a few TV programs from this era yeah and I think so far this would be something which I would have been like oh I'm going to watch this next week yes I can see why in the day because you know yeah if something like shit like I would definitely watch this. I don't know if this was BBC Two or... But I think when you think of the types of things that drive. now. I think this is a very brave thing.
Obviously people are doing other things now and, you know, reading about Andrew Tate and stuff. That's why they're not all watching TV. But, you know, I think if you put stuff on... No, but it pulled in like 18 million viewers. So it proves that it can be done. It's just like, I think people have kind of lost the knack of...
doing it with dramas, which is quite strange. And everyone, you know, same with Quatermass, everyone used to gather around the telly on a Friday night and pubs complained that it was on telly because the pubs were empty. Wow. Which is weird because they were watching people watching TV on the telly. In a pub. Yeah. And we are excellent.
Next time, we're going to be watching 28 Weeks Later. Okay, until next time, see you all later. Thanks for listening, everyone. Stay safe. Thanks, everyone. Love, light, and peace. Happy days. Happy days. You have been listening to The General Witchfire. Support the show and continue the conversation. com forward slash general witch finders Subscribe and spread the word at Farewell. You don't have nightmares.
Hey, hello. Nothing, there's nothing there. Oh, that's better. I'm in Dorchester, I'm in the lounge. Oh, is that what it looks like? He's in the kitchen. You need to mute yourself on Google Meet. So, James, you're in the window in the lounge. I am. Yes. We tried but it's too echoey. Echoey, yeah. because i can hear him and he can hear me and then we knew it just drive everyone mad mad it is just to say
Yeah. So we should just say this is a slightly different setup than usual listeners. So if the order is a bit bad, it's because... James has come to join me in Dorchester and we're in different rooms than what we're normally recording. Rooms. I was in the same room. How are you, John? John seems pretty quiet to me, by the way. I don't know what he's like. Yeah, he's quite quiet. Maybe a little bit. Is there a volume thing on your mind?
I've never... Oh, it's not plugged in! How the hell is it working then? It's coming out of your... It's picking up your mic on your mic. Much, much better. That's better, yeah. That's it. You're lying. I'm in stereo now. There we go. All right, should we do it? Do the watch first. Yeah. Oh, fuck, have we... Yeah, because for the trains... Yeah. The one train goes at 10.20. And then the one after that at 11.38, it's a bus replacement. Oh, Jesus. So I would get home till 1.37.
So we're potentially only doing the one episode then. We'll see how we get on. Yeah, we'll see how we get on. I'm trying to force James to sleep. Okay, so like to force him to sleep sleep right so this time we watched episode sorry the background sound of the cat like having a shit Fuckin' hurry up! Get out of that! But what is all the cat litter? It's just digging around. Get out of that box. Get out! There we are. That's the extra at the end. Yeah.
There's not police lights outside your house, Cleaves, is there? There's like a blue light behind James. Often a blue light comes down our road, I don't know why. Not a disembodied blue light just hovering at... No, no, no. No. Right, so... I think it's kids screaming outside. It's quite disturbing. It's like Ghostwatch. Yeah. Shit, there's someone in your mirror. Behind you, John. Yeah, it's me. Yeah.
I think it's disgusting. It makes me sick. God, I don't want more reaction. All in the same area. It's interesting. Not all of them children. 300 women.