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hold this up you'll notice that my notes just say why have you done this to us ross it was kind of my fault really wasn't it because i said we should do a podcast that things that wouldn't get on telly now number one good sweetheart A hundred percent. Yeah. And this, there's so much in the first episode where you're like, what the fuck? It's like, it's more like what you think about the seventies than. Yes. Stop. All right. All right. Start. Start the podcast.
Britain. Land of foolish shenanigans. Right, here we go then. Britain. An ancient kingdom with legends of violence, cruelty, and torment in its blood. Join your hosts, Ross, John, and James, as they bravely tread where few would dare. Witness their journey into the horrific history of British horror. They are... The General Witch Finders.
Ladies and gentlemen, goblins and ghouls, welcome back to the 54th episode of the General Witchfinders podcast. I'm James in Bournemouth in southern England. I'm John Pountney in South Wales and the last time I looked... It was still in the south of Wales. And I'm Ross in Dorchester in southern England. This time we made...
The Lindhurst Connection. Get ready to step into the luxurious world of Nicholas Lindhurst, the legendary British actor who's captured our hearts with his talent and charisma. Nicholas Simon Linder, standing at 1.88 meters, is best known for his role as Rodney Trotter in the sitcom Only Fools and Horses. With an impressive resume, Lynn Durst has won two national television awards for his portrayal of Gary Sparrow in Goodnight, Sweetheart.
Nicholas Lindhurst has made a name for himself in the entertainment industry, raking in a substantial fortune through his on-screen acting skills and voice acting talents. Not to mention his brand endorsement deals have only added to his financial success. He truly is a jack of all trades with his talent and hard work, making him one of the most successful actors of our time. He has a net worth of $5 million.
So, Ross, as always, dear listener, I'm about to read Ross's script, but a bit like John's trigger warning. from our last episodes i am also attaching one at the start of this saying this is so far off of what we normally do but also totally yeah totally within our Sorry, Mick James, especially the Jack the Ripper episode. Yes, yes, of course. But you may think, if you want to skip this one, don't listen. Maybe listen to a few others first. Yes. Let it run with your headphones.
out so we get the um the penny from the adverts and then that's fine okay so bear with us this month listeners as we take a left turn down ducat's passage to talk about something a little different from our usual classic british horror inspired by our recent tangents recent tangents constant tangents into british sitcoms check out our last episode we're exploring some quasi sci-fi
high strangeness and time-slippery shenanigans. And it's not Red Dwarf. Then, in part two, we'll discuss a more traditional ghost story, both with a particularly gangly actor as its nexus. So, Nicholas... Simon Lindhurst, born April 1961, is an English actor who began his career as a child actor and is best known, especially in these shores, for his role as Rodney Trotter.
in the long-running BBC sitcom and favourite of... really poor quality sort of spanish bars and restaurants only fools and horses when i went on a holiday to spain which was just every bit You know, I didn't go to any of the nights in Spain. Let's just say that. And all of the boozers, all of which were just selling just full English breakfast to clearly appeal to their kind of... Were they all called the nags head?
they all just like reform i know this is not this is not hyperbole for me uh you know so to appeal to like the reform brexit um clientele all of them We're showing episodes of Only Fools and Horses every time. It's so weird. Anyway, so yeah, that ran from 1981 to 2003.
Lindhurst, who apparently enjoys underwater diving, beekeeping and... piloting his own aeroplanes has had major roles in a plethora of sitcoms including how many how many of these do you recognize go on james right including raymond fletcher In the Porridge spin-off, Going Straight, where he played Ronnie Barker's son, straight as an arrow. Yeah, I've seen that. Adam Parkinson in Butterflies. Yes.
I was going to say Ashley Phillips in The Two of Us. Yeah, remember that one? Yeah. Yeah, I really fascinated his wife in that. Was that the one that Pat Croughton was in? I don't know. I don't know, it was kind of like a stop-motion thing with them of 2CV or something in the title sequence. Pat Charlton was in one as he died and then he was replaced. Not literally as he died. No, that would be X-rated.
this is back when you can have a sitcom just by saying out there's two people who live together you don't need any more concept than that three up two down yeah um and then he also played peter piglet chapman in the piglet files which i remember but never yeah i remember yeah i remember the title jimmy venables in after you've gone no clue whatsoever on that one from me is was that in the like 2010s or noughties where it was um was it the voiceover of a boy who was in a wheelchair
Or is that the one with Jasper Carrot? There were two really weird sitcoms on in the noughties that were vehicles for people past their sell-by date. One was Jasper Carrot and one was Lyndhurst. And we watched both of them quite religiously, obviously. And whenever I think Jasper Carrot now, though, I just think of Golden Bulls. Do you remember Golden Bulls when it was on? That whole thing where you could steal or share the money?
Yes. The little shaft, wasn't it? What was that? It was something along those lines. Was that with Kilroy? That was shafted with Kilroy, I think. Robert Kilroy, a recurring touchstone now. Yeah, returning. recurring theme. Nad Rosesper and Freddie Robbdall in the comedy-drama prequel to Only Fools and Horses, Rockin' Chips. Rockin' Salt or something. Red Fools Idol. So I was going to say, why would you make... sort of the prequel to a really popular, funny sitcom, an unfunny drama.
Because people loved it so much, Ross. I watched that as well. It was so beloved. Patrick was in The Two of Us, yes. Yes. I think his grandfather, and then he died, and then they brought in another old man. He regenerated. so yeah because the couple of things really quick ross is that the whole thing is isn't it because i never watched rock and chips i was vaguely aware that it was on
But the whole point is, isn't it, is that, you know, Dell and Rodney from Only Fools and Horses, Rodney's dad, in inverted commas, is not his dad. It's obviously this other guy, isn't it? Yeah.
Yes. So Nicholas Lindhurst plays the guy who's his actual biological father. Or maybe it was a time travel thing and he was his own father. Weird. It wouldn't surprise me. And then the other thing, Ross, which you've forgotten to mention, which is perhaps the weirdest late career... time for him is of course he's in the in the new in the reboot of frasier isn't he yes after he appeared in a show with um uh trump loving um yes kelsey grandma exactly
The funniest person we ever met. Yes, was it a hell that read the quote to me or one of you that read the quote to me that said they fell in love like men sometimes do? Right, okay. You can't... Kelsey Grammer said that about Nicholas Lindhurst. That blew my mind. Another favourite cruiser in the simulation. This is just like... random shit I think they met on something like Spamalot or something in the West End and then they basically they fell in love like men sometimes do
You might be just intrigued to know, and for the listener may want to keep this in their mind as well. One of my sisters, and I won't say who, I won't throw her under the bus just in case they're angry. And just in case this gets back to Nicholas Lindhurst, my sister is absolutely convinced he is a man with no sense of humor whatsoever. She said that whenever she seems interviewed, he looks like he's just like utterly cold. Yes, I've thought that. Yes, whatever. Yeah. Fine. Yeah.
He's got a blank slate with which his character's got... I don't know if he's one of those comedic actors that always thinks he should have been like Burton or like... But he ended up doing like Rodney Trotter for like... Yes. Millions of pandemics over 25 years. Every pronker is taking a bit of his soul away, hasn't it?
I've started to get that now with my... Because I've got a yellow Cinquecento now. I've never seen... The Inbetweeners. The Inbetweeners. And some drunk hooligans were walking up the street last night. At like one o'clock in the morning shouting bus wanker at my car. And I felt like getting up and going, fuck off, leave my car alone.
and then a lot of this as well for the benefit of our international listeners as well or international listener sorry oh my god I'm going back I'm destroying my own joke of always making up with only one person listening sorry right so here we go then Why is it? Everywhere you want to find in the H of Z, it's always in the crease. Meet Gary. He's just an ordinary bloke who finds himself back in 1940. Find the best, then.
And how much will that be, pray? Sixpence evening? It's Tubman's Farthing. Come on, seriously, how much? I told you, it's Tubman's Farthing. Oh, what a brilliant dream. My God, it's real. Real or not, Nicholas Linter stars in Goodnight, Sweetheart. Thursday at 8.30 on BBC One. Part one for tonight is tonight's first topic covers his role as the time-travelling bigamist.
Just check that out for a pitch of a sitcom, everyone. Time Travelling Bigamist. They got you sitting up straight when the pitch ended, didn't it? Gary Sparrow in the British sitcom Goodnight, Sweetheart. created by Lawrence Marks and Morris Gran, who off the back of this, I should also point out, they wrote this off the back of the massive success of Birds of a Feather. Birds of a Feather. I never really understood. No. Why it was funny. What'll I do when you are far?
away. All I know is one of their husbands, I can't remember which one, but he looked terrifying. He had a really odd edge to it. Anyway, never mind. Oh, my God. There's so much recasting happening. Here we go. Right. So this was produced by the BBC. Goodnight, Sweetheart ran from 1993 to 1999, broadcasting a total of six series. The sitcom follows Gary Sparrow, an accidental time traveller living a double life through a time portal that connects 1990s London with 1940s wartime London.
While the show's creators, who also made Birds of a Feather and The New Statesman, wrote most of the episodes, we chose to watch Series 6, Episode 1. Mine's a double. And Episode 5. the asses in between, because they had at least a tenuous link to our podcast's premise. These episodes were written by Gary Lawson and John Phelps, a writing team, and Geoff Rowley, respectively.
Sweetheart featured Vix Maguire as Ron Wheatcroft, Gary's best friend in every episode of the show. The Haribo policeman, if you don't know. Yes, he is. Yes, he is in the ad for Haribo as one of the policemen. Maguire is best, though. for playing Jack Boswell in Carla Lane's Brace. Grace. Gotta get up. Gotta get up. I sing that to the kids. Grab the wheel by the throat and shout.
Another comedy I never understood why it was meant to be funny. It wasn't funny at all. Sudden time shift to the future. I can see the girls doing a podcast going, do you know what? Our dad used to sing a song to us every morning. Oh yeah, what was it? What was it? Gotta get up, gotta get up. Why did he sing that? It's either that or Get Dressed for Success by Roxette. Get Dressed for Success.
shaking me up to the big time baby get used for success bet he was your dad yeah well I had um I want my mommy! yeah great that's what i meant so you know we've gone full circle in a way yeah right so meanwhile yes i sorry i started that off by banging on about bread there sorry so gary's best friend every episode of the show
Best know for playing Jack Boswell in Carla Lane's Bread. Related to our areas of interest. He also appeared in an episode of Chernobyl. Yes, he did. No way. Yes, he is one of the... best well Chernobyl is one of the best series of all time ever ever ever if you haven't watched Chernobyl watch it it is phenomenally good it's incredibly good and he is the character who um
Emily Watson's character, who's written to be like an amalgamation of all the various different Russian scientists that were kind of working on... the fallout from Chernobyl, so on and so forth. So she's the only really kind of fictionalized character. And she goes to see her kind of local Soviet chief to say, look, I think something really seriously wrong is happening. at Chernobyl. And he's just like, you worry too much.
Yeah, you know, just kind of like, you know, in other words, he plays the whole kind of the person in the Soviet... He does look quite Russian, I suppose. He does, you know, kind of in the Soviet machine who has sort of got rich. offer various profits and now is just basically burying his head in the sand that's who he is by the way yes does he die in it james no no he's literally in it for one scene but when he turns up it's like hey he does and um
Ross says that he plays a bar patron in Star Wars The Force Awakens. Apparently so. Did he now? That's insane. I must re-examine that scene. Which one is that? When this annoying... Like, small... I'm guessing in Maz Kanada's bar. Yeah. There he goes. I'm assuming it's whatever. Well, now I must re-examine it. That's the bit when it all starts to go wrong for me with that film. I'm just like, oh, God, you could cut all this out and it could be two hours long. Right.
bloody stupid some people might think that john some people right and anyway it also says that he played police officer number one in 2005's hellraiser colon hell world he's played a lot of cops though he has and portrayed Gerald Hardy in the 2012 Daniel Radcliffe version of the woman in black so being a busy boy he's then now Devlin Kerwin? Oh, sorry. No, I was just trying to place him in that woman in black film, but I don't think I can at all, really.
Another reason to go back and watch it. He's one of the boys in the office, is he? It's in the 2012 version, so not the one we watched. Okay. So it says here that Dervila Curwen played Gary's wartime love interest and later wife, Phoebe, in the first three series before being replaced by Elizabeth Carling. Carling was briefly engaged to also 90s sitcom. stalwart neil morrissey who she met whilst she both were in the off dimension
Boone. She also appeared alongside him in an episode of the BBC sitcom Men Behaving Badly. After Sweetheart, she released an album of wartime covers, also entitled Goodnight Sweetheart. And I'm going to get this one in, because I very much doubt we're going to talk about Derbala Kerwin again, is my sister and brother-in-law, when they lived in Queen's Park in North London, lived next door.
really oh yes and yeah steven what's its chops from bally kiss angel whose name uh tomkinson steven tomkinson And they once complained and told them to turn down the music. Well, well, well, well, well. What's happened to her? Because she was a massive star for a while. She was, yeah.
disappeared really she was she was getting out of a cab once with a lot of bags of shopping and my brother-in-law turned up at the same time and said oh do you want a hand with those in other words you know just sort of carry them to the doorstep you know from the road to the door and she went no thank you very much oh lord which you see and he said what yeah yeah so you can see what she said the cybermen so that's all i'm saying without being too harsh they might yeah
My sister and brother-in-law famously said... All true, though, isn't it, James? All true stories. Very miserly, very miserly. She was arrested by your grandfather as well, wasn't she? If only! She had a burn-up with him. His dad had a burn-up with him. Great moments in Randall and Randall family history. Did they burst into a fish and ship shop and say, what's that wonderful smell? That has got...
You keep saying this. That's got nothing to do with my family, Ross. No, we've had this discussion before. That never happened to my family. Somebody else told me that.
story i told you that story paul daniels and in your mind in a mandela effect you have decided that that happened to a member of my if i said enough it did i'd love i'd love some fish and chips now similarly the role of gary's modern modern day wife yvonne was initially played by michelle holmes who rose the prominence as sue one of the Babysitters in Rita Sue and Bob 2. Rita Sue and Bob 2. Yeah. Is she in Colorado as well? I'm not sure.
It says after three seasons, she was replaced by Emma Amos, who appeared in Vera Drake, Bridget Jones's diary and an episode of Murder Most Horrid with Dawn French. Murder Most Horrid with Dawn French. John, Ross has put on the script, cue John singing the theme tune. That's why it stopped. Yep, sing the theme tune. Yeah, it's it.
Now, we've mentioned rear of the year a few times on this show, so it's worth noting, according to Ross, that Amos was, according to Wikipedia, though Ross cannot verify this, that she was voted as having... tv's best legs by readers of the economist ross that can't be right i can't believe it's so random i couldn't think why would anyone make that up yeah
What's she been in recently? She seems to have disappeared as well. I thought she was quite a good actress. I thought both of them in this were quite good, actually. I felt that she may have changed from one episode to another. I think it's just the inconsistency of characters in the series. And the inconsistency of episode settings we were watching, which means I might have to go back and watch the season.
it's just like what's going on well yeah well it all changed near the end oh right okay so as part of the back of the bbc landmark sitcom season which include a live airing of mrs brown's voice jesus an episode of are you being served with a whole new cast and a reboot of porridge starring kevin bishop yes i remember that as the grandson of norman stanley fletcher which would actually make him the son of nicholas linders character if we're doing a here to establish
Yes. Alright, the season concluded on the 2nd of September 2016 with a one-off... Goodnight Sweetheart special entitled Many Happy Returns following events after the final episode. The sitcom later received a musical adaptation in 2017. Yes. In an art centre somewhere, yeah. Oh, I see like that. Chapter. Yeah, I think they were hoping it was going to get taken up for the West End. I would go and see it.
If it was the Jack the Ripper episode, there's a clear tie-in with From Hell. I would go and see that. In Spinal Tap, that's what they're going to do when they're talking about when Spinal Tap's... I've always wanted to do a collection of my acoustic numbers with the London Philharmonic. That's great. And, you know, as Derek Small says, remember what we spoke about at the Luton Palais?
Remember what we spoke about? Musical about the life of Jack the Ripper. Saucy Jack. You're a naughty one. Saucy Jack. You're a haughty one. Saucy Jack? Sadly, we never get any more. Is this like Peter Sutcliffe the musical in Brass Eye? Oh, from Brass Eye, the best. I got some pictures of some... John McRick thinks that's real. Got some pictures of Peter Sutcliffe's clothing. I bet you have. Here we go. Was it that exhibition I went to? Yeah, that exhibition you went to in your house.
The idea of doing Goodnight City Heart came up, and I thought, well, only if I can find something which is tenuously horror-related. So I went through all of the... synopsis of the uh various episodes and we got two um so the first one is mine's a double which is about Gary getting struck by lightning and been split in half and having an evil twin. And the second one... And then the second one was an episode where he went the wrong way.
down Duckett's Passage and ended up going to Victorian times rather than the wartime London and encounters Jack the Ripper. So these are the two episodes which we watched. But the night I watched that, I also... Went down the wrong passage. Yeah, I thought, well, I'm going to watch the actual last episode to see what happened at the end. And then I went and watched the first episode. And then I sought out this...
special they did to see what happened. So I've got, if you want to know what happened in the... Well, yeah, you're going to have to tell that. I might watch it myself. Oh, okay. I'm quite interested to watch it myself now because... The first episode we watched, if we watched it in the order of mine's a double and then the Jack the Ripper one, the first one was horrifically awful. I was really engaged by the Jack the Ripper one to the point that I was like, this is as good.
It's Quantum Leap, Star Trek The Next Generation. It's from hell. It's got shades of all these things. Put in a mixer and then... Delivered through Nicholas Lindhurst. It's a work of real genius, I think. And the guy now that wrote it should be the showrunner for Doctor Who. Right. I think the only other things he wrote were things, were like episodes of Doctors and...
Maybe like an episode of Bless His House or something. I wonder if he's like really cross somewhere. Could have been Russell T. Davis. I think he's got a broader brush than Russell T. Davis. I'm putting that out there. Before we get into this episode, one thing that I want to get your opinions on, gentlemen, is...
Do you think this was filmed in front of a live studio audience? Or do you think this is canned laughter? It's really hard to tell, isn't it? Well, I don't know, because there was quite a lot of... Well, here we go. Here's the rub. That some things... had no response from the audience whatsoever weird silences weird silence like they'd never seen anything like this before but then other things but there was silences because they were waiting for like a reaction and no reaction came came
It was strange. The kind of quality of the picture and the video and the way that the laughter was on there made me think of the sort of era of Red Dwarf when...
Christian Kachowski came back, which was... Oh, like 98, 99. Yeah, yeah. So it was still four to three, I think, but it looked like it had gone up a level in kind of... video quality yeah and it's the sort of thing they would have gone back in time to like yes world world london or something yes 100 i couldn't tell with the laughter track i thought that there were it was
Well, I thought some of the jokes in the first episode were very crude and cringy. I was going to watch it with a kid, and I'm really glad I didn't, because it was a non-stop sex joke, wasn't it? Yeah, and it was, I remember it, I think it was on at half past eight, and I said to her, like this would be on at midnight now yeah i think this is disgusting so effectively so let's explain why so let's go through the very short um Premise of the first one. So this is...
It turns out that Gary's wife has now got a big cosmetics brand. High-powered job. Yeah, cosmetics brand, which is really taking off. In a big flat, which looks like the flat from Absolutely Fat.
fabulous yes well when you say big it's not that big but they're acting as if you stand on one side of the room then we can hear what you're saying on the other side well that's what i've written is is she deaf because it's like they're talking directly about whatever and she's oh gary oh whatever if i turn my back you can say whatever you want yeah um so for my main things really at the start are the creepy music which sounds like
it's a song about murdering someone yeah um good night sweetheart it's very odd um yeah and the so the first the title sequence he always walks past the cinema
A picture of himself. Of himself in a wartime film, which never happens in the TV programme at all. So the premise of that is already more interesting than... this episode yeah and he looks all disheveled and like frightened and he's wearing a bomber jacket yeah yes so i think that was probably filmed in 1993 wasn't it when it before he knew what he was going to do with it yeah
Well, yeah, I don't think they... Did they have any idea where this program was going when they started? I don't think so. Because I... No. I was shocked to learn in one of these episodes that he's got a child with the woman in the past, the 1940s, which is really, it's mad. That was one of the bits when I thought Ross will have inevitably done the research and be able to tell us. Ross, does that pay off in the final wrap-up episode that you watched? It must do. No.
He can't remember. No, no, because I'm trying to think. He goes and sees himself being... Because in the next one... Yeah. Because the final episode... He saves Clement Attlee's life, which closes the portal. So it turns out that's the reason he's been sent back in time, is to save Clement Attlee's life. Weird. Someone put arsenic in his pipe while he was opening a vine. So he doesn't see his wife in the past again? No, he gets trapped in the past. Oh, he's trapped in the past? Yeah.
so he gets trapped in the past and then he and and moffat must have nicked this he writes a message under the wallpaper in this mayfair flat saying sorry to his wife explaining um what happened it must have been like a bloody essay yeah well basically um his mate tells him what well what happened she doesn't believe him but then as he's saying it the words appear on the wall as he's writing oh
But then in that special, he's in the 60s with his son. And then he realizes that he's about to be born. So he goes to the hospital to see himself being born. Mad. And then a new time portal opens up which comes out into a toilet in a restaurant. So there's jokes about him walking out while men are up and shit and stuff. And basically, yeah, the time portal reopens again, and he finds out that he's got a daughter in the present day, because when he left, he left his wife pregnant.
So both wives know he's a time traveller. No, his wartime wife never knows. Oh, I see. But do they know that he's a bigamist ever? No. His modern day wife does. His modern day wife does. Oh my God. I mean, there's loads of material here for a drama. Yeah. And I think...
There was a drama a bit like this about 10 years before this on the BBC called The Flipside of Dominic Hyde, where a guy goes back in time, and I think it turns out he's his own great-great-great-grandfather or something like that. And that's really good. But this is a comedy where, well, we'll start with the episode. So the music's really creepy. And then you go straight in and it's basically, she's in this flat.
She can't hear them discussing his other life. Yeah, so we should explain to people who've never seen this before. Essentially... He's a TV repairman who accidentally... Yes, doesn't repair any TV. Well, not anymore. He's a TV repairman who accidentally goes through a portal to the 1940s. Like quantumly. He falls in love with a... woman in the past but then he he goes backwards and forwards in time he ends eventually ends up um uh taking
objects from the past and bringing them to the present and selling them in a shop. In a tat emporium. Yeah. And his friend is a printer who can print him. authentic wartime money so that he can go back so he goes and he ends up having a double life and he has two wives and he ends up having a son in the past and he tells the people in the past that he is uh
He's like a spy. Spy. That allows him to disappear back and forth in time. And he tells his modern-day wife that he has to travel around the country picking up wartime memorabilia for his shop. So that summarises it. But in this episode... So the premise is insane, isn't it? Yeah. And nuts. So for episode one, I found it totally charmless.
unbelievable, idiotic, puerile, and just not very good. I found it very interesting in an early scene where he drinks out of a can of Coke and it's 37p. 7p! I write that down as well. That's a very cheap... How much is a can of Coke now, boys? I have no idea. 1.15? Easily a quid. Oh, my God. Yeah, at work at the machine, it's £1.15. The friend is the policeman. One of the policemen from the Haribo advert, and that's quite funny now in retrospect. It's...
Their friendship is totally unbelievable. The acting is totally unbelievable. Gary Sparrow is this horrible person. Yes, exactly. I've put the vibes that he gives off. He's just nasty. And that is my issue with this episode. But he gets called out on it, which is quite good on this one. called out by his friend.
He gets called Jeremy Clarkson at one point, which I thought was really funny. My note was, Clarkson fucking awful since the 1990s. This is 26 years ago, and Clarkson is still an absolute classé bellé. Yeah. This, it really reminded me, we're not really going to cover this episode in detail. No, but I think we should see what actually happened in it. We'll go through the storyline. But what it really reminded me of was the setting and stuff, was the Doctor Who new adventures novels.
that came out in the 90s that are, some are good, some are terrible, but there's an attempt to be puerile, there's an attempt to be kind of adult sci-fi, there's an attempt to be sexier. There's one I had to ask my friend Derek to remind me the title of called Bad Therapy, which is set in the end of the war or just after the war. And there's a fog going down. There's a fog going around London, which is easy for you to say, with a sentient taxi in it, which is going around eating people.
If this ran to a 7 series, that probably would happen. And I thought, God, this is really like those kind of ideas where you're getting quite far into something and you're like, how can we... Or we'll give the actors more to do by, oh, I tell you what we'll do for Nick. We'll give him, he can play his baddie double, which is a bit like I'm sure what they did with script meetings with like Star Trek Next Generation when they said, oh.
How can we give Brent Spine a spinner more to do? We'll have to bring in his evil brother. You know, it's that kind of idea, isn't it? And this episode is the same way. You just... All I've written is very odd and uncomfortable. So he can't do Lothario. What happens is he goes back in time.
He's basically being horrible to his modern wife and his past wife because he can't keep either of them happy. And then his friend calls him out and says, there's a really nasty side to you, Gary Sparrow. And as he's coming back from the... wartime to the present day he gets hit by lightning which I thought this everyone was cracking up at this point but it looked quite nice right
That's my notes. I just put laughs at lightning strikes. And it's not like a funny, like, you know, crying and being hit by lightning. It looks like he's actually got killed. Yes. And then you see him kind of split in two, a bit like the bi-generation.
so maybe russell t davis was influenced by this more than well and i i've put down in many ways this is a bit like twin peaks any excuse to mention twin peaks and star wars of course um so yeah you know the whole all these two versions and there's a bad one yes oh my god at this point you're not sure because one gary's dead on the floor apparently dead on the floor and then the other one is standing looking at his dead body yes then he come he appears uh um
back at his modern-day flat chewing gum. Yeah, that's the sign of the baddie. That's what I've written. The international sign of a... is someone chewing gum. Yeah, and then he essentially demands his wife have sex with him. Well, yeah, he just turns up and demands that either wife have sex with him there and then. Constantly. The one in the...
The past is like, oh, you know, it's lunchtime. And he's like, yeah, whatever. Come on, let's get on with it. And it's like, what? This is disgusting. And this was on on like a Thursday night, like up at eight, just after 12. The modern wife loves it. Yeah. Yes, but that's because her Gary is a bit more reticent, I think. And that's my vibe with this episode. It's all right to have an affair if your wife is miserable. It's just a really weird kind of moral. standpoint, isn't it?
Just so strange. Well, apparently the writer said he's not a bigamist because he's never married to another woman at the same time. Boo! Okay, he's not a bigamist. He's just unfaithful then. And it's... And we'll see even more of this in the next episode, which just makes no sense at all. Yeah, so essentially he's sort of going backwards and forwards and playing them off of each other.
and desperately just trying to have sex with as many people as he possibly can. And then you realise that he's got the... The real Gary. tied up in the toilet of his restaurant the prime universe gary yeah is in gary prime yeah and my my and once again on the audience thing my notes just says No gasp at all from the audience at the reveal of the double. Yeah, but he's revealed. No, it's like, oh.
Well, the other one's having a piss. Yeah, pissing next to his face. Like when I first met Michael Sheen. Yeah, oh no, we can't put that in. I've had to go back and cut that out. No, you can put that bit in because that's fine. Michael Sheen has a piss. Yeah, he's a man. Prick him, does he bleed? And that is then also the point in my notes that I put, that Lindhurst does always give off nasty vibes.
he does he just comes across he's like you know nasty man i don't know if you're listening i'm sorry i'm sorry yeah yeah But directly to his death, I did. There's a very uncomfortable scene played for laughs where he goes into the pub and rather than playing... one of his usual songs. So one of the long-running gags is that Gary says that he's a singer-songwriter, and he'd go back to the past and play Beatles songs or stuff like that.
Everyone immediately just goes, yes. The second they hear them. Presaging yesterday, obviously, by Richard Curtis. Yes. So he does. Sex Pistols, Anarchy in the UK, which is a truly awful scene. Yeah, no problem. You could do that one I like. Yesterday, all my troubles seemed so far away. I'll tell you what, Reg. What do you want you haven't heard before? I think his usual stuff's got more of a melody.
It was awful. And I also put, this is weirdly, like, and we spoke about this, I think, last time, or I think I sent it to you two, when he did that weird cover of the Who's My Generation with Michael Barrymore. it's a similarly atonal yes insanely misguided yes Just because we get around Talking about the generation Since they don't look awful cold Talking about the generation I hope I die before I get old Talking about the generation Bye. Bye. Bye.
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Just for when we go to the next episode, at no point have we ever seen Gary smoking at this point, okay? No. Just want to mention that. Very true. I'm just foreshadowing something which is going to come later on. I question that as well. Also, there's then a joke where they shoehorn the title Smack My Bitch Up into a scene for a 90s laugh. Yeah, which has always been seen as like, that is the worst.
The most shocking song you could possibly ever play anywhere, isn't it? Yes. True, true. And then there's a weird scene where the policeman, who is his friend in the past, he's given him a 90s hat. When he says he's got to arrest him for selling black market hooky gear, he puts a weird 90s festival jester hat on.
which makes no sense at all. And he's also teached, he likes the bad Gary better than the good Gary because he's telling dirty jokes. And that was a joke about him. Yes, exactly. Well, I think they all kind of, at first, they all kind of like... bad gary more yeah they accept the 40s um wife because um he's a bit lewd yeah um i have said at this point it's not a patch on the dad's army episode where um
mannering's brother turns up and who's a piss head so there's a lot of backwards and forwards they're chasing each other around and then um there's a thing with a gun um so much padding yeah backwards and forwards and eventually We missed out on the bit where good Gary is forced to hide behind a kitchen unit and listen to his wife have sex with bad Gary. There's a bad version of himself, yes. This was on at half eight.
I used to watch this with my mother up to 96 when I went to university in Cardiff. I'm so glad I didn't have to watch this with my mother or any other family member. It's really like... what is this weird yeah so yeah it's really so when they have a fight bad guy gets the upper hand until um like you said a third gary turns up and it turns out and this is like the good gary so good gary so gary prime assumed he was the good gary but it's okay he's just
Gary, but his good side and his bad side split off, but his good side is a gay pipe-smoking guy who... I've written down that he's a toff. For no reason. Good people are gay and upper class. Yes. Whereas bad people chew gum and are sex pest. But they're both sex pests.
Because, of course, if you are gay in a sitcom in the 80s and 90s, you've got to be a predatory gay person who will... a proposition any other straight man they meet and which is a thing which you've got to be really frightened of because like gay people are really frightening because they could force you to have gay sex with them and there's a joke here where he wants to hold hands as they're going through the portal and haribo
policeman says oh i i don't think i'm coming to that part and it's like what there's a joke just about holding hands and you're yes you're homophobic and and and there's a word there's the word puff is used correct I was astonished. Poof, in inverted commas, gag. Cancelled. Yeah.
i put these that you know you literally can't say that that's right and they don't say at the start on icv like this this program which is words here it just bangs phrases i was really shocked that it was quite this weird i thought i wish i'm glad
I didn't show the kids this because it'd be too much. There's a lot of explaining to do there, isn't there? And then also, at the end, the culmination is, is they say, if all three of us go through the portal simultaneously, that will sort it all out. And I thought... How do they know this? But that's like any sci-fi ever, isn't it? It's been half an hour. The ideas are totally used up now.
We just need to get them back to normal for the next episode. And you've got to say to Ron, never mention this again. Let's never say, do you remember when you turned into, like, you split apart into different versions of yourself? There's a bad version of you for a while, but you know, it was very hard to distinguish from the normal you. Yes. And then the final line, the final line of the show. I wrote this down as well, James, yeah. Is.
Why couldn't she have met the gay one? Why couldn't she have met the gay one? That is the punchline. Final punchline. Unbelievable. Dreadful. Dreadful, dreadful, dreadful. Has not aged well then. I think that... has aged terribly and i was shocked to see that you know when we were in our last year in university that's the kind of thing that was on yeah but when you when we were saying about this loads of when you go back and watch a bit of a lower low
It's constantly all about sex. Yeah, but that's like the 80s. I think if you were to put all three of us and give us a survey and say, by the mid-90s, had we started to turn away from... innuendo racism yeah yes um yeah you know things like and you'd go oh yeah yeah yeah i was definitely you know that was virtually gone
by then. But then I realised that I was not watching a lot of primetime TV. Primetime sitcoms are a different thing. Well, when they did the revival, so he's living in the 60s in the revival. and comes back to the 20... Is it 2016? 2016. One of the jokes in there is he walks out and he sees two men walking along holding hands and he's standing there agog. But was that mad in 1999? No. No. It's London? Yeah. It's just so strange. Very odd. Very odd. So, yeah. So that one I would give, like...
Minus 10 too. I would for once in this August, I'd have to go into minus figures for this. I would have to go, this was like minus four. This was awful. It was really poor, wasn't it? I don't think there's one genuine laugh in it. The idea is a very kind of hokum from other stuff. Well, we say that. It's in the past, though, so I think a lot of stuff in the future cribbed off of this. Minus ten.
Minus four, zero. I think that it's like a writer's room idea of, you know, Nick has said that he wants more to do with Gary's character. So what can we do? You know, maybe if we give him an evil twin. it also just feels like this is such final series we're scrabbling around for ideas yes anything anything anyone got anything and also in a tv program or film has anyone just died by getting hit by lightning
Because it always seems that it causes something to happen. It's always like, oh, that made them go back in time. That made them split in half. It always does something other than just killing them. You know, when you search for stuff on Instagram, all my searches now on that page are things of people like with massive cancers coming out of their faces.
Or like people who have been struck by lightning and are covered in like burns and stuff. Right. And I've no idea why it's happened. Is that what the old woman served up to you? You are. That's what the algorithm says. Yeah. Because all I look at on my search is like pictures of NCT1701D. Yeah. Over and over again. And the controversy of, you know, the new ships and stuff. But then if I search for something, I'll prove this to you now, please. Hang on. The internet is constantly wanting to see.
People putting pussy fists on people. Exactly. Yeah. Why? I'm not interested. You are, look, a guy with an eye missing. Yeah. There's the Enterprise, but next to it, yeah. Yeah. There's a cat there. All I want to see... Look at this ancient skeleton man that's still alive. It's like, no, I just want to see... Whereas mine just shows like goffy girls dancing around. I do get a lot. On the other one, I get gothy girls.
So the second episode, what can we say about that? I loved it. So we formed ourselves. Let's have a look at the Jack the Ripper one. Yes. So how does this one start? I don't know because I haven't made any notes about that. This is... Well, I've put down that the guy from Bread comes to him and says, I need Dosh. Yes. That's the line. Really weird start to an episode. I need Dosh. So they're obviously harking back to an episode we haven't watched where he's... So I think what's happened is...
Gary has got some money from somewhere and he's bought a Mayfair flat for him and Phoebe and she's no longer working in the pub. She's now got like a club because I think they live in the same... building as noel coward and then yes that's right yes they're friends with noel coward yeah and uh she's like like a singer in like a west end club um and um and i think
Gary still owns that flat in the modern day. Yes. Again, all of this is a great structure for a drama. Yeah. But for a sitcom, you're like, what? It's like they walk into a conversation they're having that you're just like, what? What's going on? And he's like, oh, Gary, give me some money, you know. And also.
The mad thing is having established that he too can go back in time. What my notes is, and I know, and I'm sure you dear listener would be exactly the same sort of boat as this. If you've watched any science fiction things or anything like that. Just go back and buy some shares in Shell Oil. You ding dong in the 1940s and then come back now. I want to become a multimillionaire. I think Evil Gary did say something like that, didn't he? That he was going to...
start Marks and Spencers or something. I bet there's an episode where he tries to make money out of it. because I'm sure they wouldn't he's the father of Steve Jobs or like he's the father of Elon Musk or someone else there was an episode where his mate goes back in time with him as well yes I remember that very clearly
But there must be a reason why he can't do that anymore. So then we find out that the wife has sold her company for 15 million pounds. She's got a lot of money in 1999. And then gives... haribo policeman a check for five thousand pounds for no reason and then he just goes off screaming in the street yeah like The writing on this program is demented. And then Gary's invited to a Phil Collins party. With Zoe, Davina, and... Eureka. No, it's not Davina. It's Denise Van Uten. Yeah.
That's a deep cut. Yes. That is a deep cut. So that is very odd, isn't it? So, yeah, there's lots of 90s references. You can't really tell what's happening. And then how do we get back to... 1888. Well, there's a part he's meant to be going to in the modern day, which he wants to go to because... apparently um might get pissed oh yes so you might get to have sex with her because he's laddie behavior yeah that's what he does it's the new s yeah it is constantly chasing a shag through time
And then, but there's also a party. He's meant to be going to the first night of a... Richard III? Richard III. Something with Olivier? Yeah. Yeah. So, again, he's sort of running backwards and forwards to try and keep both of his wives happy. And he gets a cab, but he delivers them to the wrong end of Ducat's passage.
But why is he going to Duckett's Passage at that point? Because he wants to get back. He's got to get back. Get back to the... In time. That's where the time travel portal is. Yeah. To go to where, though? He's got to get back to Phoebe. But he's already back in time, then, isn't he? No, he's in the modern day. Oh, right. I don't know. I can't remember. Well, nobody gets out of an old-fashioned taxi. No, it's not. No, no, no. No. He's in modern day, and he's trying to get back to the 1940s.
So he's taken to the wrong end and he gives the guy some change. Yeah, and then he comes... That's an old cab, Cleves. No, it's not, because when he goes through, he thinks he's going to the Royal Oak, because he comes through and he goes to the Royal Oak, which he thinks is in the 1940s. Cleaver, like with Harry Connick Jr., I bet you £500,000 he's in an old taxi at that point. And he's like, this is the wrong end of Ducat Lane, and the Royal Oak's down the other end.
I don't know. I can't remember. It doesn't really matter either way. But it's all foggy. It's all foggy. Well, yeah, that's what I'm saying. If he's already back in time, why is he going to the pub if his wife doesn't live there anymore? Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, so I thought I'd missed a bit, even though I'd sat there and watched all of it. So then he goes into the pub, and this is where it becomes quite interesting, I think.
that it's like the Boer War or something, isn't it? So you see people in there in like red military outfits and it looks Victorian and it's all misty and stuff. And you're like, and straight away at this point, I was like, oh. I'm really interested in this now because this looks really good. Yeah. We should mention as well, he's also been complaining that he keeps hearing someone in his backyard. In the smell of tobacco. Yes. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Yeah. So.
He goes into the pub there. But it's actually a musical, not a pub. Yes. And he sees characters from the 40s. Yeah. Yeah, as their kind of ancestors, aren't they? Yes. So the policeman is there with a funny wig on. And this has been established, if you watched the first ever episode... There's a modern day version of The Policeman in modern day. And when he goes back to the 40s, there's an older, there's like his grandfather there. It's a bit life on Mars. Just like in all science fiction.
things yes your children or your look exactly the same same job yes yeah different hair yeah yeah different teeth yeah yeah um so he goes in there They think he's the comedian. He goes on stage. He's not very funny. He lights a Siggy that, like Cleaver says, we've never seen him light up before, I don't think. No. And then... The crowd are amazed. Yeah.
They're astonished to see a cigarette lighter, but then he sees in the audience a woman who looks exactly like his contemporary wife in 1999. And all this for me actually got my kind of Doctor Who. thinking this could be quite a good episode. There's stuff going on here, which is quite good sci-fi. I like Jack the Ripper. I like, you know, Victorian kind of smoky pubs and stuff.
So this is right up my street. Far superior to that awful thing with Christopher Plummer. Yes. Whatever that was called. What was that called, Cleaves? Murder by Decree. Yeah, I was going to say murder most horrid, but that's not right. Murder most horrid. What would be an amazing twist, and I was half expecting this to be this, it was, if it actually turns out that that was Yvonne.
And that she has been able to time travel the entire time. And that was going to be the reveal that when she goes through the passage, she just automatically goes back to the Victorian. Yeah. And imagine she had a husband. There you go. So I thought, oh, is this what it's going to be? But no. So James, I've got goose pimples.
thinking about that now imagine that twist in the sixth season of that's where they should have gone with it yeah yeah i i think that's very good jane and i think that if this was a drama and this is all not played for Insane laps. It would work really well because it is like Dominic Hyde. It's like this guy with this really weird morality who's got two wives in two different time zones.
And you could explore all the kind of weird feelings he has about that. And, you know, he's got a son with one. And, you know, is that son alive in 1999? Have we already seen the son? Yeah, exactly. That would be the interesting thing, that it turns out that one of the characters is in fact his son. I think he meets him as an older man in one of the episodes. That's weird. So the son would only be 50.
before in 1999 yeah yeah yeah so i think that you know that that's quite an interesting idea to be like I think he meets, if I remember correctly, he meets him and he's like a down and out and a bit of a bum. And then he goes back and does something which changes his... changes yeah and then yeah and ends up making him successful if i remember correctly that that just came out of nowhere so that might be completely wrong that's your fan fiction version isn't it cleave
And then someone comes in and goes, screams. Yeah. As if like that. Yeah, but screams and then immediately just talks normally. So I need to scream in order to announce to everyone this has happened. And then I'm going to... Oh, Lord. Yeah. And then they all rush out. And then he... Does he nip off for a cuddle with...
No, he says at this point, I must see you again. Yeah. And for some reason, she feels like she's got a connection with him as well, which is interesting. But it's like, mate, you've already got two women on the go.
It's like, what is this comedy about? Is it about the time travel thing? Or is it about the fact that... you're like michael douglas you're a sex addict so yeah david the cough me yeah um so then what does he do then does he go back to the present day or what yeah some some more backwards and forwards and then there's a joke about babysitting
and then the idiot policeman in the 40s is babysitting and there's some jokes about that. Yeah, there's a bit of a side thing about there being a robbery, breaking in and feeding the capita. so yeah lie and all that kind of stuff so well that's just sketched on the back of a bag packet yeah yeah isn't it really because it's like we've got to give the other character something to do
and we can't really think of anything. And we need to have the next night. And then they go to the next night, and then they start to get suspicious that every time he turns up... Yes. There's a murder. There's a murder. Firstly, he goes... neck in with Mary Lloyd, doesn't he? Yeah. Who looks exactly like his wife. Yeah, and we've got one more song left, so they immediately start taking their clothes off. Which is very René Artois, isn't it, in that way? It's just a bit strange.
And it's just really weird. But then... There should be a thing, right, that he sort of has to say to Reg, no, Reg is the policeman, Ron, that, you know, I don't know what's wrong with me. Whenever I go to a different time period, I cannot stop falling in love and having sex with people. And all it's doing is messing my life up, and I hate it. traveling through time gives me the whole drama yeah we could make that would that would make everyone be like wow this is really interesting um
But it's a bit like Jim Kirk, isn't it? In the original Star Trek, like any woman in any star base or any planet, get off with them. Any port in a storm, literally. Yeah, and then they just die, probably. But why cast Nicholas Lindhurst? If you want to have someone... he's got a really attractive success for the wife in one place and then the first woman he meets falls in love with in the next place. It's just...
It's such a bizarre character. A bit more charisma. A touch more charisma. Or make the jokes about the fact that how is he managing to pull these women when he looks like Gary Sparrow? And, you know, his name in itself is a bit of a kind of... You know, he's a bit of a weakling, isn't he? Yeah, so basically he gets chased by everyone. In some really brilliantly choreographed and photographed scenes where I was like, this looks brilliant. It looks like a...
a two Ronnie special. Oh, well, they spent loads on the Christmas. I watched, did I say this to either of you? I watched over Christmas. They had the Pinocchio on, the Pinocchio one on. where he's got lasers in his eyes, and it looks like it cost more than Christmas. Even still, it's like they spent so much on that one sketch. Because it's just like, it's all done on film. The sets are massive. It's like fucking hell, guys.
And then Barker's like, oh, I've had enough. I'm retiring to Chippy Norton. Norton. And it's like, what the... Yeah, and I think he looked better as Chippetto than Tom Hanks did. Yeah, he did. Oh, that was so... We tried to watch that with the kids, and they were just like... Did we just turn this off? What did you try and watch? The live action Pinocchio with Tom Hanks in it. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was so bad. When did that come out?
a year or so ago. It's all CGI now, isn't it? And you can tell it just looks shite, doesn't it, I think. James, what were you going to say? No, no, I was just going to say that scene, John, that you've referenced, I've put down that the extras look like they were really enjoying their days back there. I thought that. Run, run, run. He's really going for it, isn't he? Yeah.
They'll shout weird things as well. Because I've just been told to shout. So he then runs into like a... stables or something doesn't he Gary Sparrow and the reveal is that he's in there out of breath next to the also out of breath Jack the Ripper holding a big knife which at this point is
This is where the crossover with From Hell comes in, because he looks a lot like, what's his name, Seagull or whatever he's called, doesn't he? Yes. Gull. Gull, yeah. Just Gull. Is it Dr. William Gull or something like that? William Withy Gull, yes. The Queen's. Yes. And he's basically based on the illustrations, I think, in From Hell. I can't see any of the... Possibly. I naturally immediately thought, oh, which stalwart of British sitcom?
is this going to be? If only. Yeah. And it was nobody. I thought it was going to be someone from, are you being served or ain't our fuck mum? Imagine who would be in Winsor Davis. Oh, yeah. The best. Lovely boy. So then he's chased by Jack the Ripper. Back through Duckett's Lane. Well, yeah, so he ends up back in his yard behind his shop. But then the twist is Jack the Ripper has followed him. Yeah. And I thought, this is brilliant. What happens now?
They keep saying that Jack the Ripper murders just stopped overnight, didn't they? Yes! And I'm like, this is brilliant! Like, this is the start of something really good, like a really good spinoff. So they go into the shop and then Haribo Policeman turns up. Jack the Ripper threatens them both with a big knife. He threatens him taking his entros and hanging him up on a hook. Yes, which gets a laugh. That's my last name. I put laughs at the line.
vital organs on the doorstep. It's like women sitting at the base of the guillotine. Yeah. So then... you find that Jack the Ripper wants to retire to something like Bexel on Sea or something, which is a really odd line. I wonder if that's a Ripper deep cut. For like where maybe one of the Ripper victims did end up going. Not victims. Yeah, not victims. Yeah, the victims didn't go very far after being victims. Ripper suspects. Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah.
Well, that happens in From Hell, doesn't it, James? Doesn't someone retire to, doesn't Abilene retire to the seaside? Which is exactly what did happen, because he was from Dorset. He was from, he was from Wimborne, down the road here. His father was a blacksmith, apparently. And then after his time in the Metropolitan Police, he went and he was a policeman in Monte Carlo.
And the story of the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo is closely tied up with Aveline. And he had a suspicious large amount of money given to him and retired. And then Aberline retired to Bournemouth. And should you and Helen be in this neck of the woods again at any point, John, I can show you the very house. Give over. Oh, yes. I know I'd like to see that. So I thought that was all quite interesting.
But then, morally, it's like, does Gary let him escape and then become a murderer in 1999? Which I was like, this is brilliant. This is like an episode of something really good. But then he goes outside and gets run over by the number 66 bus or something. Immediately. Yeah. Yes. Which is probably the best way to end it. But I thought... But then Gary's wife turns up.
Oh, yes. Modern day wife turns up dressed in Victorian garb. Yeah, the same outfit that the version of her he's seen in Victorian London because she's going off to her Phil Collins party. Yes. And then he faints. Hence, he faints. And then credits roll. Yeah. My final note is, because I thought of Russell, remember, because this is very much our VHS.
Ross, is that very similar to the premise of the movie Jack's Back? Yes. I thought so. What's Jack's Back? He time-travels to modern-day San Francisco, doesn't he? And who is Jack? Jack the Ripper. Oh, I see. Let me look it up on IMDb. I'm also getting mixed up with the Ruka Hara film where London's flooded and they were going around on... Oh, yeah, we watched that together.
A very, very hot pizza. Kim Cattrall's in it as well. I'm just putting my pyjama bottoms on. Oh, thank God you're not taking them off. Oh, better. Oh, my belt was getting very tight. So I think we've watched some mad stuff, haven't we? Yeah. But one of the things for me, and the little teaser, our next thing we're doing is a Jack the Ripper thing as well, but it just...
I went to a... Yes, well, is it? Yeah. I went to a doctor... I went to a exhibition about... Jack the Ripper. Well, Jack the Ripper, it was about serial killers. And there was a whole... bit in it about jack the ripper and they had a recreation of one of the last murder scene um which is really um quite um Visceral. Sobering. And there was lots of photographs of the victims which I've never seen before. And it was quite like, God, this is nasty and awful. But it's amazing that this horrific...
crime is something which people just use as basis for comedy. Yes. Once again... This is the point where I am legally bound to say everyone should read the book The Five.
the five I was going to say the same by the author Hayley Rubenhold who says exactly this thing doesn't she Ross she says at the start the problem is is that this is that these victims have been turned into a punchline that these victims have been turned into merchants ice yeah yeah and you we have forgotten the utter horror that that this is and so that and so yeah read that book it's almost like for me it's almost like it's so horrific
The things which he did were so bad that in order to deal with it, we just turn him into a joke. But I'm just thinking they're not going to do... in give it probably like 10 years time now because that's how far the difference in time they're not going to do a thing and he goes back in time and fred west follows him back through the portal
They're not going to do it, are they? No. I was going to say, how long before you start getting like 9-11 jokes? Yeah. 9-11 based comedy. Like Elvis now has become totally divorced from Elvis. Like when you have the Elvis in Porthcall, it's people dressed up as Elvis, but they look nothing like Elvis. And it's like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy. Yeah, it's like a rubber mask. And it's like those people.
Probably don't even know what an Elvis song is. A lot of the younger people don't. But then the same is with Jack the Ripper. The name became this brand for something that was totally separate to the actual crimes.
that were perpetrated by someone who probably wasn't called Jack the Ripper, which is the interesting part that the Jack the Ripper thing... yes well yeah but it's i think they don't they say that the jack la ripper name was made up by a journalist one of the newspapers yeah it was it was a fake yeah yes yes um and it's out so the whole thing becomes this spin-off
of a spin-off that's like it just has its own it's like dracula or sherlock holmes except in this case that this is based on reality rather than yeah a story yeah a story Well, while you were discussing, I looked up Jack's back. Yeah. The intriguing things about it, by the way, is that number one, it was both written and directed by a man called Rowdy Harrington. Which is quite fun.
And it starred James Spader, no less. So quite a big star. Yeah. But the fourth listed person is Robert Picardo, a.k.a. The Holographic Doctor from Star Trek Boys. No way. Who John just held up on his phone. A few moments ago. Did I? Yeah, he was one of the pictures. On Instagram? Yeah, I said, if you go back to the tape, I did say Picardo when you held it up. Oh, I thought you said Picardo. It's all coming together.
Well, basically, we've just got a very, very small sphere of interest, which is just crossing over each other, don't they? That's me, yeah. So I would give this a five quite easily. It's up there. For me, this is up there with the stone tape and the road. Because I was just like this. Like I said, we've watched some really mad stuff.
It's all quite niche and it's quite easy to ignore. Like, you don't have to watch Hellraiser. You don't have to read The Rat. This was a primetime sitcom about a bigamist traveling in time. who gets chased through time by Jack the Ripper and then kills Jack the Ripper, even if it's, you know, by mistake. And I just thought that is wild. And he got 6.2 million viewers.
did it that's quite low for that yeah but now that's like the best ratings on television isn't it the highest rating it ever got was 13 and a half million oh my god if if programs got that now it would be like front page news for stuff, wouldn't it? I remember when Doctor Who Battlefield got like 3 million viewers and people were like, Doctor Who's going to be axed, and it was then.
Things get 3 million viewers now and they're like, this is the biggest success in the history of television. How many did Gavin and Stacey get on Christmas Day? Because everyone's going nuts about that. I think about 19 million. Yeah, yeah. Which is a huge rating. And I think it's the biggest in like 20 years, probably since something like Only Fools and Horses. Because it's, you know, it's just inoffensive and it's not challenging.
really is it kind of just we didn't i didn't watch it did either of you watch it no i've never seen it no i know i've never seen it um Which is bizarre considering how many of the bloody places I drive around when I see all the merchandise. But so, yeah, so I would give that a five. What about you two? James, you're next.
Oh, I'm very sorry. For me, it would be just like a one. I didn't enjoy watching. Despite, they said, the fact that I'm absolutely on board with the whole... with time traveling things there's always such interesting things you can do with it and as you say this could have been the basis for a really intriguing action drama series so for that
alone it would get a mark but I did just put down why have you done this to us Ross I did feel like this was a real ordeal to sit through these who would be Gary Sparrow in the drama reboot now do you think Oh, Richard Madden. He's very popular at the moment, isn't he? That guy who's in Game of Thrones. But he's very handsome, James. So you'd go for a more handsome guy, would you? We've got to make it realistic that he can pull. Yes.
Yeah, he pulls all these women. Yeah, I'm thinking about people that have been in popular sort of BBC, done a bit of prestige TV, but not like a big A-list Hollywood star. I'm not sure who I go with. I would cast a black actor because it would give them more stuff to talk about.
Where are you going with this? How people relate, related to people from different races back in the night in the past. Yeah. I see what you mean. Yes. No, that would be also a good, interesting subtext in the war or, um, Especially in like 1888 or something like that, wouldn't it? I bet Gary has to fight fascists at some point in the past as well. Yes, of course he does. Yeah, he takes on the black shirts in Enoch Powell, not Enoch Powell, Oswald Mosley.
Not Sydney Street. What street is it? Cable Street. Is it Cable Street? Yes. Sydney Street is the other one, isn't it, where they were? Was it the Fenians were holding up people? Here's the first ever press photo of them. something happening live. I can't remember. And Churchill was there. Churchill went down and took control and it went really badly. And I think he had to resign or something because he told them to...
Just shoot them. So what now? Oh, well, I was going to give a score for it as well. Oh, yeah. Sorry, Cleve. I'm going to give that a one as well. Yeah. But yes, I do think. Sorry, John. Sorry, mate. But I would recommend go back and watch the first ever episode because, as with all of these things, it's a bit more pure with the idea. Yes.
They had more budget, and the 40s looked really good. The sets in this first episode looked terrible. Yeah, well, the sets were really good in the first one. Oh, interesting. And he's got the guy, I think, Derbler-Kerwin? Derbler-Kerwin. Yeah. I think she's a much better actor than the person who replaced her. Oh, I really liked... That's the thing in the second episode.
I actually found myself warming to all the characters. And I thought, God, there's something wrong with this. And I'm warming to these terribly sketched characters. But it's just, the original, and it's also got her dad's in it as well, who's played by the guy who played the granddad in Outnumbered.
But he's been in something we've watched as well. I can't remember what it was now. Oh, okay. I think I might remember him. It's all free on ITVX, so if you want to go back and watch any of this stuff. If you live in Great Britain. you Edward. Hmm? You coming? No, I'm not. What do you mean you're not? I'm not coming. I'm going to the freezer shop. Sorry. Well, you said you were going to come and help me. I've got some urgent work to do.
Work? It's Saturday morning. I know, but there's been a large insurance claim. So, for part two, we also listened to Channel Crossing by Rosemary Timperley. This was an episode of Haunted. Stories of the Supernatural, which ran for several years on the BBC World Service in the early 1980s and has since had a second life on Radio 4 Extra.
Thanks to Mysterious Magpie on YouTube for sharing some of these stories so we could listen to review it today. And now, of course, that inevitably makes me think of you often hear that various... world leaders often say oh i'm so indebted to bbc world service and i used to listen to bbc world service so let's from the top The Dalai Lama. So he could get unvarnished news about what's going on in China, understandably. Number two.
now disgraced angst young key from myanmar who was a massive fan of dave lee travis Oh, yeah, because he got that kid to suck his tongue, didn't he? No. Oh, yeah. It's not kids. It's not kids. I think John was trying to say that David Lee Travis was disgraced. Yes, it was. David Lee. DLT. Disgraced. Not whoever the other one is. Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama. Oh, my God.
that is always because we have to teach but we don't have to i choose to um we we teach buddhism at year seven at school when i'm teaching the kids about the dalai lama every now and then one of them goes didn't he do something weird with like a kid or something and i have to like talk really quickly. I don't want to get into all this. Yeah, it's how he expresses love to people. It's like my tongue. It was very odd.
Yeah. He pulled on his tongue, did he? No, he stuck his tongue out and asked the kid to suck it. Beep some bits out. The quicker he's replaced by the golden child, the better, I reckon. Teary me. Right, okay. And then the final person, not disgraced, but of course now not with us, Nelson Mandela.
I believe he was an advocate of the World Service too, which makes you think, did all three of these political leaders listen to the following radio? God help them if they did, because it made no sense. Oh my God. It does make no sense. It's bizarre. It's two things almost shunted together. Anyway, we'll get on to the fullness of time. Let's tell our listener what this is going on all about here. So it says, Rosemary Simply was an author of over 60 novels and hundreds of short stories.
stories and feature articles she's best known for her classic ghost stories the mistress in black and christmas meeting although she's primarily a mainstream writer timpley wrote numerous short stories that explored different aspects of the supernatural and she was well known for editing five volumes in a series of ghost story anthologies. Timpley also wrote several acclaimed radio and television scripts, and her short story, Harry.
has been adapted into film multiple times. This episode featured Nicholas Lindhurst's Jack, Peter Salis, no less, Last of the Summer Wine... Wallace and Gromit. Peter Salis as Edward. Patsy Rowlands as Francis. Gregory de Polnay as Gregory. Great. And Sonia Frazier as Annabelle. Peter Salas is, of course, as I've just said, famous for his role as Clegg in Last of the Summer Wine, the long, long-running BBC sitcom.
and for providing the original voice. The last of the summer wine. The summer wine. Ronnie Hazlehurst again, John? The summer wine. Yeah, always. The genius of Ronnie Hazlehurst. And providing the original voice of Wallace in the hugely successful Wallace and Gromit animated adventures. I'm sure we'll cover his life and career in depth when we discover his role in Taste the Blood of Dragon.
later this year earmark your calendars for that one guys because there's going to be some james and ross teenage memories associated with that one that'll be a good one i promise yeah yeah yeah ross and i watched that together as team boys. There's going to be some stuff on that. That's it, right? Yeah, I love that one. Patsy Rowlands is famous for her many carry-on appearances, including carry-on abroad, carry-on girls, carry-on matron, carry-on actual convenience, and carry-on dick.
Her extensive resume is too lengthy to cover in full, but Ross noted that she also appeared in five episodes of the children's TV show Rainbow as Auntie Patsy. Very, very, very influential in all our lives growing up, I'm sure. may appeared in numerous film and tv projects including skippy the bush kangaroo space 1999 and of course as one of the robots in our obligatory doctor who story the robots of death
And that is the end of Ross's introduction. Very, very short introduction. There can't be any information about Rosalie Timpani at all. Weird. Okay. That's odd. Well, what we have here is a very... very so i just went into this first of all i should point out i had no notes for this one um it was a very busy week for me i thought i suddenly realized oh okay i i'd watched the uh the good night sweetheart episode so i thought i haven't listened to the radio
thing yet so i thought i'm just gonna lie in bed which i did and all i thought was oh i see this is kind of going one way And then halfway through, it totally changes and becomes almost like a different story. Well, that's why I thought, why is it called Channel Crossing? Because for the first 15 minutes, it's... Yeah. And there's... There's a rear window-esque, almost interesting plot point involved in that we learn that Nicholas Lindhurst is this son.
who, the way, they never give him an actual age, but you assume that he's around about 18, 19. Yeah, he's studying to be an actor. He's studying to be an actor. And he's playing at various feet as well, isn't he? Yeah, well, I just thought standard Nicholas Lindhurst. Like he was in Butterflies. Yes, he's got a posher. He's doing his normal accent, I imagine. His actual voice, yes. It's the posher Lindhurst. Yes.
And we are told that he is, so yes, he's trained to be an actor, though his father, who is very, very salt of the earth, is dismayed with this choice, wants him to get a good job. preferably in a bank. They always want him to work in a bank, don't they? Whereas his mum, once again, very true to type in the cliched way, is far more supportive of him.
And we start off by kind of getting these weird insights into, well, when you've been married to someone for a long time, your relationship goes a bit funny. And especially now you, our son, are grown up. and are a grown man you know things are changing right but then we find out that they clearly live in a semi-detached house and they can hear the couple in the house next door arguing
Once again, it's because the mum says, oh, it's because they've been married a long time, so on and so forth. And then we cut to a scene of Nicholas Lindhurst, like... Talking to himself. Watching Hamlet on the telly. Yes, a soliloquy no less. And that's right, doing some acting. And then we hear that the argument is going on next door.
And they do do a good sort of BBC radiophonic workshop job of making it sound like it's muffled through the walls. And then all of a sudden it's just like, well, I'll shut you up. And then like the argument stops. And the insinuation is you feel, has he murdered his wife? And I thought, oh, okay. And my immediate thoughts were, okay, this is going to be about, is there a murderer next door?
or is he imagining all this? Is this all playing out in his head? Yeah. Is there going to be, and is the dad going to end up being involved in some way, shape? You know, is it going to turn out that the woman who's just been murdered was actually having an affair with the dad? So in my head. I was going through all of these kind of, I don't want to say classic, but well-crossed. But you try and work out where this is going to go, don't you? Yes. It starts off in a very kind of Alan Bennett way.
Yes. It's like a play for voices, isn't it? Where it's basically all exposition. You hear Peter Sallis say the word bitch, which I was very uncomfortable. It was very shocking, yes. To hear Wallace say bitch. Well, I was thinking of Cleggie because I've never seen Wallace and Gromit because it's just... Besides my total fantasy that you would work there once, Cleaver. But yeah, so it's just, it's very odd. And then...
Basically, the next door neighbour is digging in his garden, isn't he? In the rain. In the rain. Rain. And it's like, oh, no, people don't dig in the rain. And then he's burying a supposedly to Lyndhurst's character. burying the wife that he's moved yes but then they said well what do we do well we just wait till your father comes in because we we're you know we're only a son and a wife we can't we've got no autonomy whatsoever
Yes. We've got to wait for the man of the house to come back before we decide what we're going to do. Even if it is TV's Cleggie from... Who was the most simple... Not simple-minded. The most weak-minded fool of the... Compo. Do you think? I think Compo was quite sharp. Compo was the agent of chaos, wasn't he? Yeah. I think the most kind of craven and cowardly one was Cleggie.
He never wanted to go down the hillside in the bath. The bath, no. In a frog suit, James. No. He just wanted to, like, sit with his sandwiches in his windcheater. He didn't want to impress Nora Batty. um there's someone in texas listening to this now thinking what the fuck are they talking about yeah and i'm sorry yeah well we're not really i mean is this horror would you call any of this horror this point this is a ghost because
At this point, yeah, but is it? I mean, it is. It's the horror of being stuck in a marriage of which you don't love the other person. Loveless marriage. Yeah, which then totally spins on its head, isn't it? Yes. So then we find out that. I think the police have been called at this point. And the guy has said, she's in bed, she can't come down. And I was just digging the garden. Do we think at that point she actually has been murdered and he's covering it up?
And Nicholas Lindes was right all along? No. No. Really? No. That would have been interesting. But he's doing the gardening because his wife has always said you'd never do the gardening. So I think it was just the sort of thing you do when... You have an argument and you go, well, fuck you, I'm going to go and do the fucking garden then. But the police don't see the wife, do they? Because she won't come down because she's ill in bed.
So has he actually killed her? And Nicholas Linders is right. Maybe. But none of that was explained in the plot. Well, that's what I'm saying. It leaves all these kind of... I don't know what you'd call them. They're not red herrings as such. But you're just like, what is this about? And then, obviously, as James has said, then we get this insane twist. Well, not twist.
but shift in the narrative where suddenly they're all going on holiday. Yeah, they're all going on holiday to France. It's almost like, I've got the idea for this thing on the ferry, but it's only going to be 15 minutes long. I need to do another thing. 15 minutes about something else. Yeah. But it does establish a theme, like James said, about that marriage is basically just go to shit when you get to a certain point. Yes. And you end up hating each other.
It's two vignettes about marriages, isn't it? And they're just not linked very well, or the framing device is just like... It's like a really bad Tales of the Unexpected episode. Yes, it is. Where you're just like, oh, I've watched that for 30 minutes. I don't know what the fuck they were on about. And I didn't even see Roald Dahl in his dressing gown for this one. Yeah, none of that first half had anything to do with the second half.
We've had a lot of theme tunes today, haven't we? Like I said, I'm going to edit them all together one day. The era of theme tunes, like... I don't think you could name anything tunes now, could you? Well, I once saw or heard, I think I must have seen it. There was a good, and Matt Berry, the brilliant Matt Berry, who, of course.
in his other day job as well as being you know like a comedy actor is a musician and he did a whole thing saying how it's a crime that there aren't any themes anymore there aren't he no and he point i remember watching it like him saying like like lost which was the biggest show in the world at the time he's like there's no themes they are there's that yeah and he's like every show should have a theme tune yes anyway yes totally agree james i you know i think you know even things like pointless
You couldn't really hum the thing. Oh, hello, he's off. Yes, it goes a bit like that. But that's not... Didi didi didi didi didi didi didi didi didi didi didi Just the most relaxing. They're only allowed to have a certain amount of time for the credits now, aren't they? Yeah, you're probably right, yes. Miss Marple is my favourite. By talking to Matt Berry, we always listen to the music on what we do in the shadows. We just love that.
A little bit of music. Yes. I've never seen it. I don't know what it is. Norma Tenga. You're dead. You're dead. You're dead. And out of this world. And of course, now we're on this. Now we're on the, you know, my absolute favorite, and it will be my favorite until I, unless there's a shock twist, this is my favorite TV theme tune of all time. Am I going to know this one? Yeah. I recommend the Magnum podcast, which is really good. They go for it. They're watching Magnum episodes out of order.
My letter I wrote to them about the Magnum comic stripping looking magazine got read out. That was good. Whoa, nice. I nearly put it on the other day because I thought it was on telly but I thought I can't do it. One of my... Favourites also is Bergerac. Yeah. Oh! Have you watched the remake of Bergerac, James? No. No. Absolutely no fucking way. I wouldn't touch that shit.
What? Who's in it? I have no idea. Not Ruda Lenska, for starters. If it ain't Nettles, I'm not fucking interested. Yes! John? Yes! This is the original, and it's far better because it's got the French feel to it. Are you back on holiday with Perletoc here, Joe? That was Guernsey. My face didn't twist round and contort into the map of Guernsey. We could be here, honestly. We could be here all night.
Maybe we should do a theme tune podcast. Oh, I'd love that. I'd love that. We're just dancing to theme tunes, which we can't see. No, like dissecting the theme tunes. In this country, the great genius of Ronnie Hazlehurst in America, the genius of Mike Post, who is behind so many of those amazing... Cagline Lacey is a good... Oh, that's good! Sax! Hang on. Well, it starts off like... Yeah. That's what people listen for, though. I'm having a glass of wine.
The HD version, yes please. Yes, please. That's what we want. Yeah, it's a really upbeat music, which whenever I watch it, it's really depressing. It's really miserable. About alcoholism and... Yes. Getting ready for the bit when the flasher flashes in a minute. And she's... Yeah! Sharing less. Time daily. Still alive. I think both of them. Kenny G.
I might ask for my birthday to get my brother-in-law, who's a professional musician and saxophonist, to play me the saxophone. I bet you he can't play it, James. I bet you can't. Here comes the bit of the plasher. Yeah! Amazing. My mother was always watching that on us.
Yes! My mother was always watching that on a Saturday night and I would come down from listening to the Beatles upstairs and be like, oh God, it's this crap. Because I just didn't understand it. It was just so boring and miserable. I've got a story about theme tunes, which I'm sure I haven't told on this podcast before. in the royal show, which was an agricultural... Hello? Well, you met Tom Baker? Oh, I thought you said wait. No. Years later. Years later. This is 1986.
that I went to the Royal Show in Stoneleigh, the showground. They don't do the Royal Show anymore, which is a real shame. It was a massive agricultural show in the Midlands where you'd have loads of tractors and you'd have free shit. You'd have like free sausages on the sausage stall and stuff to taste and all that kind of stuff. Basically, there was a massive BBC tent because Pebble Mill at that time in Birmingham was a massive BBC centre, which...
insanely, because the BBC has totally lost its sense of identity now. They've demolished. That's where they filmed the Doctor Who we covered. Yes, that's correct. Pebble Mill at one. Well, they used to do the clothes show from there. They did all sorts from Peppermill. Peppermill had one taste of LucasAid because you'd be off ill. I mean, that's the era of the BBC when they did regional stuff properly, i.e. they had regional studios, not just now like a port-a-cabin with one person in.
But there was a quiz on stage in this massive tent full of people in the middle of summer. So this was 1986. I would have been eight. And it was like, guess the theme tune? So it was 20 theme tunes. And I was up against an adult man. And I got 20 theme tunes right. Nice. I basically totally trounced this guy who got really affronted that he'd been beaten by a child. And I can see the whole environment now in my mind. Can you remember any of the theme tunes which were on that list?
It was basically like all BBC theme tunes from the 80s. So it was, it would have been Last of the Summer 9 and all that. All Creatures Great. All Creatures Great. Points of view. Which was just when I'm 64, wasn't it? Yes. I had a few different ones in it, yeah. Yes. I do love Wogan. It's just a great small theme, but I can't bring it to mind off the top of my head now, which is really annoying.
it's probably like all creatures great and small no no no and while i'm looking it up john you lived my dream was always to go to the radio one road show when it used to come to down and get out to do bits and pieces yes the whole can you spot the song but i always wanted to go and get me obviously never happened i went to eggs and legs the um the big breakfast the big breakfast one Here we go. Hold it near the mic, James. I am. Should have to mention it.
Beautifully produced. Yeah. You can hear that acoustic guitar. Picture of Christopher Timothy on screen right now. Yeah. I just remember like it was so exotic that people would actually be called Siegfried well imagine imagine being called imagine what your life would be like if he was called Siegfried Robert Robert Harris holding a horse on the screen. Not Robert Harris. Not Robert Harris. Robert Harris threw a fatherland. That's right. Sorry.
Robert, what's his name? We reviewed him in the stalls of Bart Ochester. Yeah, and he was in Harry Potter. Was he? Yeah. That's a fantastic theme tune, isn't it? It is. So anyway, they're on this ferry then. So Nicholas Linders talks to his parents and they each have these kind of internal monologues where they're like, I wish I could chuck that idiot off the boat.
drown them yes and then the wife is like i hate that stupid little man and then nicholas linders is like my mother is too weak i wish i could drown her and stuff like okay this all kind of makes sense but then this man comes to talk to them Hey, to him. Yeah, they leave Nick on the deck. Yes, on the deck. Robert Hardy, by the way. Robert Hardy, yes. So this guy comes to talk to him, basically explaining how he's just murdered his wife. His wife.
Which is very, very strange, isn't it? And he's like, oh, can you see my wife's body down there in the water? Yeah, bobbing around. Because you were looking down into the water and Nicholas Lindert is like, no, I... I'm very posh in this radio drama. I don't know what you're talking about. Yes. And then the guy talks for quite a long time, doesn't he? In quite an odd way. But then the wife turns up and she is dead. Gregory! And she is a ghost. Yeah. Is she Annabelle?
um and they're both dead because she's poisoned poisoned him yeah yeah and he is and then they reveal that he goes oh you're psychic and you probably didn't notice and this you've probably seen lots of people and i thought shit his dad's dead
At that point, I was like, his mum had killed his dad ages ago. Well, that would have made sense. That would have been good. Yeah. And the reveal would have been that they're on holiday to get over the death of their... of his father who the reveal is that she's actually killed him and he's there on the holiday as a ghost but no we don't get that what we get is this weird bit where he goes down to talk to his parents
He can see this couple by the door. His parents can't see them. And for some reason, the fact that his dad has found out that someone's died on the boat, it's made him actually a nice person again. Yeah, he's made up. Yeah. He said, I just realised life's too short and I'm not actually going to start being nice to you all. If you want to be an actor, be an actor. That has happened to me in the past, but then I just keep forgetting it and just go back to being mean again.
And then the kind of resolve, which isn't a resolve at all, is they're on the deck again. looking out to sea, and they see the couple going for a walk on the water. Jesus-esque. All three of them, yeah. So all three of them are now psychic and can see these dead bodies. Laughing and joking. They're very, very happy with being dead. Absolutely do laugh.
And there's a weird bit where she's like, oh, now I'm a ghost. I can just go around the world and look at what people are doing. It's a weird first take on being dead, isn't it? Yeah. Just... It's so strange, and I think there's a lot of radio dramas like that, and I used to listen to a lot, and I think they've stopped broadcasting them now, because they used to be on 4Xtra quite a lot. Yeah.
But the horror and supernatural tab on the sounds app. It's getting smaller and smaller. It's gone. It's now gone. Yeah, it's disappeared. So you now can't find those stuff when they've repeated them, which is really annoying. I have to say, the other thing that it then led me to, John, though, is a roster, and this is a credit where due moment, Ross, you told me about this years ago, is an episode of Down the Line. Yes, I love that program. What's that? Okay.
Down the Line was a comedy thing done by Rhys. Rhys, Rhys, Rhys, Rhys, Rhys. Darby. No, no, no, no, no, no. Rhys Darby. No, no, no, no, no. Rhys Darby is the manager from Flight of the Concords. Oh, okay. This is the guy who's in the Swiss Tony. And, you know, he's kind of, he's associated with the Fast Show. and he is he's the guy who's like swiss tony's apprentice yeah so he's got like a call-in show and basically all the cast of um the fast show and
Guess people. Rhys Thomas. Rhys Thomas, yeah. Call in. Must be Welsh. And it's all ad-libbed. So they basically just call in being different characters and they talk about a particular topic. yes yes then like in this episode he's like haha it's a slightly different one we're doing tonight because um they're they're renovating the studio so i'm in this old studio and i can't see my producer
I'm in a sealed in room. And what I'm going to do is there's two topics for discussion. One is education and are private schools good? And the other one's ghosts. And it's then really freaking freak me out a bit. It's good because it's normally just a comedy, but this one, it gets really spooky. It's not. Yeah, it's really good. I don't know that at all.
For me, the vibe is, straight away, is Ghostwatch, but without Craig Charles annoying the shit out of things. But I think it works even better because it's an ongoing show. which suddenly you just have one episode. It goes dark. Yeah, it goes dark. I think that's a really good idea, isn't it, sometimes? Yeah, they did do a TV series called Bellamy's People.
which is quite good yes that's him yeah yeah was that about david bellamy i know unfortunately not here in the undergrowth so what do we so what do we think of that
I like the atmosphere of it, and I like the performances of it, but the actual story is just gobbledygook. Yeah, it's bizarre. You can't really mark it on the strength of... what it is because it just doesn't make sense it feels to me even though she is well known for writing many um ghost stories and yes it feels like a ghost story written by someone who doesn't normally read ghost stories no
It wasn't spooky in any way. It kind of works because it's radio, but if it was on TV, it would make no sense whatsoever. Yeah. It's just ghosts acting in a way ghosts don't normally act. But also... in no kind of relation to the first half of the story. So if it's Tales of the Unexpected, the first half before the adverts would be one story. And then the second half, you go straight onto a ferry.
But they could have easily, like, if it was the fact that he was someone who saw ghosts but didn't realise he saw ghosts, you could have completely linked back to the first half by saying, like, maybe he did hear the... the murder of the people next door. Well, that's why I thought, is it, did the murder actually happen? But they don't make it explicit enough at all, do they? Because it's just like, oh, she's in bed, but it's like...
is she dead in bed or is, or is she actually been buried? But they don't, they, they don't elaborate on that at all, do they? No. BBC. No. No, they just, they just say that they are.
They now just say that they are the laughingstock of the streets. So what? I did quite like this one bit in it when it... she said oh we've you've ruined our relationship with the neighbours and he was like we haven't got a relationship you've never been in the house and I like that idea that people have got a big fucking problem about what the neighbours think of them but they never talk to them for me it's just like a lot of
the ghost stuff you often hear on the radio where it's never as good as you think it's going to be. Obviously often you get something down the line that does it properly and you can actually do get the shit that does put the collie wobbles up here. I would give it a two. Two. One. One. One. Amiable kind of hokum that just doesn't really go anywhere. Yeah.
Just like this episode. So we started off through a really weird premise that we wanted to do something to do with Goodnight Sweetheart. Then we've done it. We'll be going back to it. Usual service will resume next time. To be fair, I enjoyed the second episode more than about 60% of the stuff we watched. Oh, okay. Wow. Much more than extra, much more than...
I probably enjoyed it more than The Omen. Really? Yeah. I just thought, this is brilliant. Like Nicholas Linders with Jack the Ripper. This is great. And this was on national television. Half past eight. Half past eight. God bless the BBC. I could talk about Uncanny Cleaves because I watched it last night. Yeah, me too.
Oh, what did you think, James? So we watched Uncanny the other night, James. What did you think? First of all, have you seen it before, James? And have you listened to the podcast before? Yes, yes, yes. Oh, great. I haven't watched all of them. Yeah. It's one of those kind of as and when, if I'm in the mood, if I've got the time, I had nothing else happening on Friday night. I very much appreciated the lady who we had on, who is the pro.
Ghost. So, James, you're talking about Evelyn Hollow here, aren't you? That's her. Evelyn Hollow is fantastic. And it was worth watching just for Evelyn Hollow. But... What I would say is, as with all of those, the thing that struck me, I don't know what you thought, John, was I just thought it was really sad. Yes. It made me feel really sad. I thought it was quite an interesting one this time because it's...
It's quite, it was a bit of an out on a limb because the guy, often I found that with the podcast particularly, that the people that are on are a bit like central casting. Yes. And you don't really believe what they've got to say. Whereas the guy they had this time, who I think was called Liam, was totally plausible. And, you know, the stuff with the nuns and the kind of mass grave of the children that were in this place was just like, oh, Lord, this is awful. And I'm very believable.
And really interesting, actually. Yes. And that's what struck me was I just thought, oh, my God, these poor kids, the shit lives they had and, you know, dying in a fucking horrible environment. Catholicism has a lot to... Oh, yeah. So rather than being spooked, I just thought... Weirdly enough, my general feeling was sadness of watching it. But oddly enough, my mum had been watching it.
and couldn't get to the end of it. It spooked her out too much. No way. Yes way. And when I spoke to her, Mum said, well, did you watch that? I said, I did, Mum. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said, well, what do you think? And I said, look, Mum, you've got to realise these things are all like edited. for tv and i said as always with anything to do with ghosts why is it not in front of a group of 10 12 people i said it's always people on their own or a pair at maximum and i said
With something like that, I said, you don't know. The first guy on there who said he'd seen the ghost, the small boy at Christmas, his dad could have easily said to him at some point, this house is haunted. or there's ghosts in this house, and could have planted that thought in his mind as a kid. And when I talk about stuff that I have to teach my students for A-level, like how false memories work.
And they have done numerous studies on things like this as to how you can have a false memory implanted in you by people as you grow up and as you grow older. If enough people say to you, that happened. That happened. You can start to believe that it did. No, I think that aspect is fascinating. And so I did just think I wondered how much of this we were getting the unvarnished truth and how much of this was.
well, the dad told him this, et cetera, et cetera. And that when the dad had moved in there as a kid, someone had said to him, Well, you know that loads of children died in here years ago. That's all it's going to take. So I saw it more as, I thought it was fascinating and interesting that it was a multi-generational one. Yes, very much so. I very much enjoyed it.
Evelyn, she was wonderful. Basically, I think that what is interesting, that they have the sceptic and the non-sceptic idea. The sceptic guy, the way he tries to explain stuff away. makes the kind of ghost stuff seem more real. Yeah. Because he's like, oh, yeah. You know, the books move. There could have been wind in the room that moved the books. There's no wind in a room that can move a book. No, you just say they imagined it. That's it, the end. Yeah, there you go.
Well, I mean, there was multiple. What made this one interesting, Cleves? There were multiple witnesses to a mirror coming off the wall and kind of descending to the floor, which I thought sounded really interesting. But then the guy's trying to explain it away and he had to kind of own up in the end and say, I can't explain that away. But which always makes the ghost side sound more kind of plausible.
Which I think is quite funny in a program that is, you know, essentially like just talking nonsense about ghosts. Yeah. I think it's well worth listening to. I think the guy that runs it is quite mad.
Danny Robbins. Yeah. I think he's a workaholic. He's made a big old career out of it. He's made a huge career out of it and fair play to him. Yeah. But I think his brand of his mad mop top and his kind of white... clean vinyl jacket red jacket which is like very um um don't look now i think it's quite strange but quite kind of um canny if you'll um excuse the pun
That he's kind of made himself the kind of... Because Hell's like... He's iconic. I would really enjoy this if it wasn't just all about this guy, Danny, all the time. Well, that's what put me off. I've had to come out the room. Yeah.
you know, have some air for a minute just to explain this other part of the story. Yeah, but that's what put me off. I used to listen to the Battersea Poltergeist series, which is really good. Yeah. But then when he started doing Uncanny and the one... the witch farm one oh that's rubbish yeah they just kept doing this it was always like oh as someone who lives in wales the accents in that were like like my
dog could probably do a better Welsh accent than that. And I haven't got a dog. Yeah, it's just the way he kept getting freaked out by stuff. It just felt so... It's too much. It's so contrived. If nothing else, Ross, they have recorded a new bumper thing. You used to hate the thing of him looking over his shoulder. They've recorded a new one of those.
He looks slightly less ridiculous now. Sleeves. You can't put any of this in. I'm trying to say stuff you put in, and then you're just like... Right. Right. Okay. Cut there. Cleaver, talk about your serial killer thing. At work, it got around that I like true crime podcasts. True crime podcasts. So basically, we started a team's chat at work called Killers Club.
where we used to share our favourite true crime books and podcasts and TV programmes. Yes. We all got together for lunch one day and we said, well, does anyone know any murderers? And it turned out that one of the ladies at work... her husband's Uncle was a enforcer for the IRA. He used to go and kill people for the IRA. Steak knife. Yeah. And another lady, her family are from... Cyprus I think.
I think it was like an uncle of hers. Son got severely beaten by one of the teachers. So he went and beat the teacher to death after. Oh my God. James, you want to watch out? Yeah, I do need to watch out. No, I was worried after that guy.
got fucking beheaded in france after all the charlie hebdo stuff yes they want to start paying me danger money yeah go on carry on so anyway one of them brought up so there's an exhibition in london um called the serial killer exhibition where there's some like serial killer artifacts there so um do you want to go so i said yes and then a load of them pulled out at the last minute so it only ended up with two um me and two other people going along to it
There's a tunnel by Waterloo Station, which is all graffiti down there. That's right. That's where I saw Alan Moore. Yeah. So down there, there's a thing called The Vaults. I went inside there. Massive queues. So many people in there. And it was quite good, but it was just absolutely massive.
So basically, they have information about a serial killer, and there would be, like, maybe, like, an artifact. So it would be like, this is a piece of Fred West wallpaper. This is a pair of Peter Sutcliffe's trousers. and just... It's just really, like, weird stuff. What was it? Whose trousers? Peter Sutcliffe's trousers. Peter Sutcliffe's trousers. All right. Nice. Nice. Did he have flares, please?
They were folded up so I couldn't see. What waste was he? And they had QR codes so you could listen and it'd be like, Richard Ramirez. And they'd tell you about that murderer. But it was just, it went on for so long. It was like... You're about halfway through and you think, how many more have I got left? And it was just so many of them to listen to. There were a couple of, like, crime scene recreation bits, so that was quite good. So you could go in and see, like, a Ripper murder.
Or you can go and see... You can go and see a ripper mood. Yeah. What's happening? Or just like the recreation. Recreation of it. You can see Ed Gein, a sewing machine, making like... Fuck's sake. And stuff like that. What was that picture you sent us of just somebody's arse? What was that recreating? I think it was how they called Dharma because they matched his teeth to a bite mark in someone's arse. Oh, Lord.
in order to explain this, he had a picture of an arse up on a wall with a white mark out of it. Yeah. But I would say, I would say that I've been into this stuff for like years and years, you know, ever since like, you know, getting a hold of those.
news of the world sunday magazine and there'd be like an article in there about a murder and stuff and reading stuff and what's your document but something there was a lot of photography in there which i've never seen before and it started off being like oh wow i've never seen like
these ripper pictures before actual like autopsy photographs and stuff and a load of i don't know if you know bck is but like he used to tie himself up and and um so it's loads of these photographs which he'd uh he took of himself where he used to dress himself up in women's clothes and hang himself in the tree and stuff. Did you say Peter Kay? No, Peter Kay. That's where he disappeared for a little while. You haven't got your headlights on.
garlic garlic bread i've stabbed you in the neck garlic bread um holiday off teletext but then there was some like crime scene pictures of like kids and i was like oh i wish i've never seen that yeah it was all right It was a very, very long day, though. Did you drive there and back, please? Drove up, got the tube in, and then we drove back afterwards. We had a nice Korean meal afterwards. Oh, Korean.
You didn't go on a coach trip up. I had visions of you on the magical mystery tour bus with your fellow serial killer fans cosplaying. Roll up for the mystery talk. What you should watch, Cleves, is Zach Bagan's something museum because he's got Ed Gein's... like cauldron and stuff. And it's quite mad. And there are people come in and like one guy faints and stuff. And he's got like someone else's TV. He's got Bela Lugosi's mirror. But if you look into it, apparently you're like...
transfixed and stuff. You should watch that. Yeah, we'll do. And he's got Peggy the doll. Peggy the doll. How much money do police men make? just taking loads of these little bits you know this is a pencil used by this yeah this is certified loads yeah how much wallpaper was ripped down before they knocked down threads lost it yeah what was it called yeah yeah yeah The House of Horrors. But next time, we're going to go back. Back to our roots.
We're going to have a hammer bang. Yes. Yes. And we're going to be looking at Jack the Ripper once again with hands of the Ripper. Well, the door. Well, the... Okay. I'm not going to... Give away the storyline. I'm not going to spoil it. Yes. Okay, but next time, come back. We will be doing Hammer Horror again. We'll go back to the proper stuff. Yeah, yeah. So until next time.
Until next time, hang in there, everybody. Thank you for listening, as always. Love, light, and peace. Yeah, there's a lot of shit going down, guys. Yeah, happy day. 2025 is pretty shit so far. We're going to increase the tariffs on... The other horror podcasts. You have been listening to The General Witchfinder. Support the show and continue the conversation.
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Subject to availability, participating stores only 18+. Full terms and conditions at starbucks.co.uk slash rewards. Right, is that work, Cleves? I think so. Yes. Oh, what drama. You filled your pants, have you pleased? Yeah, I've gone so hot. Because you thought we'd lost it all. I thought we lost half an hour, and then it was like, okay, we wouldn't be doing that again. There's no way I could get you.
convince you guys that let's do that all again yeah yeah okay try and remember what we said yeah okay same level of interest anyway yeah even he hasn't got that much interest so basically um i'd Forgot to plug my laptop into the power. Mine is like that all the time. Yeah, so what I was saying was... I very much appreciated the lady who we had on who is the pro ghost team. The pro ghost? Yeah, do you know what you like? The Scottish woman. He fancies the Scottish woman.
Absolutely. I'd let her convince me, even though I don't believe in the supernatural at all. What about her really deep voice, James? I like it. i would allow her to convince me of the existence of the supernatural hell was like oh my god she's ultra goth yeah well you know i i think she's absolutely fantastic yes so i've got to say
Hats off to her. I'm following her on Instagram now. As we speak. Right now, but I can't remember what her name is. Isn't that awful? Anyway. The other guy is Dr. Kieran O'Keefe. Because he's got a bit of a Dr. Kieran O'Keefe. What's she called now? Hold up. We need her name. We can't just be like that bit of stuff. I even looked up her book. Is that it? No, that was another book. Hang on. I'm amazed I can't remember her name because I've listened to this podcast for like four fucking years.
It's really hard to... Hang on. Hang on. This is going to be put in as a special kind of one at the end. Hang on. Hang on a minute. So, James, you're talking about Evelyn Hollow here, aren't you? Right, right. Okay, cut there. Cleaver, talk about your serial killer thing, and then I'm going downstairs to have a chicken sandwich. Ooh, nice. I'm going to have a... Sausage. Let's get some cold sausages. Left David from dinner.
I've got an air fryer, by the way, and it's changed my... Oh, no way. It's amazing. I'm quite intrigued, by the way. John, get one. They're fantastic. What have you been air frying, James? Everything. You name it. Sausages, burgers, chicken. bang, all just go straight in the air fryer. And does it taste different or nicer, James? I'd say nicer. It's just it's less fat and things like that. So it's not quite, you eat it with slightly less gill. Yeah.
But things like sausages in the air fryer are delicious. Sausages are delicious full stop, aren't they? Yeah, really good. Two sausages a day are 60% of your saturated fat. Yeah, brilliant. That's insane, isn't it? Brilliant. Because that means you can barely eat anything else. I think I've had six today already. Well, there you are, Cleves. Your heart is like... But basically shit in itself. Yes, I am fascinated with the Blitz in 1940.
But unlike most hobbyists, I can't actually... I go back there. You are a man torn between two periods in time and two women. And two women. That's absolutely right. I go back to 1940 and I meet a girl. Almost exactly the opposite of my wife in 1993, who was a go-getter. She's a driver. She wants to better not only her career, but mine as well. She wants to get out of the starter home that they're in, move to a bigger place, earn more money as most people do.
Quiet, shy. It sounds such a cliche to say, well, we remember my death friend in 1940, but my character finds that this one is. She's very sweet, and because he's from 93, he's so much more knowledgeable. She thinks he knows so much more about things than the regular chaps in the East End of 1940. So there's a mutual fascination that develops into... a very innocent sort of love affair. Now this throws up all sorts of moral questions. I mean, is it wrong to...
Have two affairs when they're in different eras? Yes, right. Is it wrong because I'm having an affair with somebody who is 83 when I get married? it's very strange and i'm also i have a wife who exists you know and the lover my wife hasn't even been born i'm having an affair with somebody who is 83. My wife hasn't even begun having an affair with somebody who is... 83. My wife hasn't even begun having an affair with somebody who is...
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