53 - The Gorgon

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Yeah, I know what you smell like. Well, yeah, exactly. I don't smell of anything. You both smell nice. Well, yeah, but in terms of human smells, I never... Hell's always like, you don't smell of anything. There is no smell to you, which is quite weird. Well, that would be like a sign that you're a ghost, though, wouldn't it? Yes. 100%. Or like a robot or something. I'm breathing.

An ancient kingdom with legends of violence, cruelty, and torment in its blood. Join your hosts, Ross, John, and James, as they bravely tread where few would dare. Witness their journey into the horrific history of British horror. They are... The General Witch Finders.

We're here in the future. It's 2025. Oh, no way. Apparently so. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, goblins and ghouls, to the 53rd episode of the General Witchfinders podcast. I'm James in Bournemouth in southern England. I'm John Pountney. I started to do it in a bit of a media voice then. I don't know why. I'm John Pountney. I'm John Pountney. I'm in South Wales, which is still in the south of Wales. I'm Ross in Dorchester in southern England, and this time we face the Gorgon.

It has been said that every legend and myth known to mankind is not entirely without some truth. It was here under a full moon in the little village of Van Dorf that an ancient legend suddenly terrifyingly came to life. Doctor, you'll perform an autopsy. On a body that's turned to stone?

Have you ever heard of Magera? Magera? It's said that when mortals looked upon her face, they were turned to stone. Leave Vandorff before it's too late. What is it you're afraid of? I'm afraid for you. Or of what I may discover.

If I remain. We want you out of this house, mister. Now. For 2,000 years, Magera the Gorgon had kept her evil peace. But now this strange, unearthly creature returns to petrify every human being who crosses her path. Starring Peter Cushing as the doctor. Did his strange talents direct him to medicine?

or murder christopher lee is the professor confronted by a conspiracy of silence that paralyzed the village with terror magira died two thousand years ago it's her spirit we're concerned with today it's found a resting place in somebody also starring richard pascoe barbara shelley michael goodliffe the terrifying realism of the gorgon she comes to life

And brings death to all those who look upon her face. Carla! I am waiting for Carla, Mr. Hyde. You've lost that loving feeling by the Righteous Brothers. It's at number one in the UK. Sir Alec Douglas Hume is Prime Minister.

Beatlemania has erupted in the United States, Southampton has been granted city status, and Ross has put Can You Tell That This Script Was Running A Little Bit Short, and the Channel Tunnel Agreement was signed with an estimated completion time of five years, although of course it would actually take 30. Meanwhile, at the cinema, released as a double feature with The Curse of the Mummy's Tomb, is today's topic, The Gorgon.

Produced by Anthony Nelson Keyes for Hammer Films and directed by the legendary Terence Fisher. The Gorgon stars hashtag Big Chris Lee, Peter Cushing, Richard Pascoe, Patrick Troughton, fulfilling our Doctor Who quotes for this month, a superbly turned out Patrick Troughton. We'll talk about that shortly. And Barbara Shelley. The screenplay was written by Anthony Nelson Keyes and John Gilling.

Anthony Nelson Keyes was one of four filmmaking sons of comedian Nelson Bunch Keyes, is well known in this parish for a number of topics which we've discussed before, including Quatermass and the Pit, episode 34, and The Reptile, episode 19. He joined Hammer in 1956 as an associate producer, later becoming a producer and occasional screenwriter. Keyes also served as general manager of Bray Studios in the 1960s and eventually co-founded Charlemagne Productions with Christopher Lee.

Yes. Or should that be production singular? As we know, they only manage one film together, the quite remarkable Nothing But The Night, covered in episode 42.

Richard Pascoe plays Paul Heights. Late in his career, he starred as Tom Colley in The Watcher in the Woods, a favourite film from Ross's youth that we must cover one day, says Ross. Before that, he played Cardinal Richelieu in the 1966 TV adaptation of The Three Musketeers and Dr. Boris Zargo in Rasputin, colon, The Mad Monk. Is Rasputin any good, John? Because it seems like everyone's been in it. Well...

The song's a banger. No. Yeah, the song's amazing. Big Chris Lee's Rasputin in it, isn't he? Yes, but it's also one with Tom Baker. That's what I was going to say. Tom Baker does look a lot like him. No, well, it's not a horror film. It's just that I think it's a load of made-up hokum. Unlike all of the other films we follow, which, of course, are factual.

So, Big Chris Lee appears as Professor Carl Meister, whilst his best buddy Peter Cushing plays Dr. Namoroff. Despite popular belief that they always work together, the pair hadn't shared the screen in four years before this production began. I bet there's a lot of bitching behind the scenes about other productions that they'd been into during that time, I imagine. They had no money, darling. Facilities are a nightmare. Barbara Shelley stars as Carla Hoffman.

Born Barbara Teresa Cowan? In 1932, Shelley appeared in over 100 films and TV series. She celebrated for her roles in horror classics like Village of the Damned, Dracula Prince of Darkness, Rasputin, The Mad Monk, and Quatermass in the Pit. For the role of the monster, former ballerina Prudence Hyman was cast as the creature was intended to float gracefully, almost like a wraith. Spoiler alert. Says Ross, although I don't really think that's a spoiler. No, the spoiler alert for the next bit. All right.

Shelley had hoped to play her character's Gorgon form herself for continuity and even suggested using a special wick with live green garden snakes for realism. Unfortunately, the idea was rejected due to budget and time constraints, often the catchphrase of this podcast. After seeing the disappointing Gorgon effects in the final cut, Keyes admitted to Shelley that her suggestion might have been the better choice. As Big Chris Lee quipped, the only thing wrong with the Gorgon...

Is the Gorgon. I think as we'll find tonight, gentlemen, for once, Christopher Lee was potentially right. Right. And it says visually, and I agree with Ross in this, and this is going to be one of my notes, that this film is stunning. So let's give a shout out to Michael Reed's cinematography and Bernard Robinson's production design. Michael Reed's CV includes Dracula, Prince of Darkness, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, and five episodes of CITV's Press Gang.

The press gang, of course, that's where your Doctor Who guy, your former showrunner. Do you know the story of how that got made? They filmed it with TV cameras, didn't they? Some film crew came to film at Stephen Moffat's dad's school, because his dad was a teacher. Moffat always wanted to be a writer, and then he told them about his idea for doing a drama based on a school newspaper. Then years later, the production guy...

He remembered that and he went back to him and said, I'm going to try and pitch your idea up to it. And he goes, okay, you can have it as long as you let my son write some of the episodes. Oh, wow. And then that's how he got it. All right. So since this introduction feels a little sparse and in tribute to Ross's typo last month, let's move briefly from a Gorgon to a Gorden.

Gordon Kaye, star of TV's Hello, Hello, spelled his first name with an E, something that Ross hadn't realised until researching his career for this podcast. His real name was Gordon with an O, but when he applied to join Equity, the reply mistakenly addressed him as Gordon. Shortly afterwards, he was hospitalised for a kidney stone. Upon waking from surgery, he noticed that his hospital chart had also spelled it Gordon, and he decided to stick with it.

Kay made his television debut in Coronation Street, appearing in over 50 episodes as Bernard, Elsie Tanner's nephew. He went on to appear in Porridge Movie and in episodes of It Ain't Our Fault, Mum, and Are You Being Served? He was in some episodes of Hello, Hello, wasn't he? I think so. And also, Ross hasn't put it in here, but the thing where I was like, oh my God, that's Gordon Kay. He's in Day of the Jackal. Is he?

Yes, the original, Day of the Jackal, yes. The Jackal kind of stops and kind of goes incognito for a while and basically has a gay affair. And Gordon Kaye is his gay lover. So he also appeared in Ain't Half Op Mum and Are You Being Served, both written by David Croft. Croft promised him a bigger role, and in 1982 he created René Artois in Allo Allo. The best theme tune of all.

Time. Besides Miss Marple. There are lyrics to it. No. There are lyrics to it. I don't want to know them. Oh, I kind of do, James. Oh, okay. Does it go? Hello, hello. Hello, hello. It does. Hello, hello. Hello, hello. Until we meet again, apparently. All right. Okay. Oh, interesting. It was released by the woman who's played Edith. Released it. Oh, right. Okay. Yes.

Hello, hello, we meet again. And just as before, the same desires, the same fires start burning. And I feel like we should also point out, as always, for the benefit of our non...

british listeners or listener um because as we know this is such a british sitcom i would be amazed if this even got a show even on like brick even though it's sitting fans james apparently it went down really well in germany yes yeah yeah yeah yeah um and it says the super successful sitcom ran for nine series on television yeah it did 13th of december 1982 up to the 14th of december 1992 of course four years longer than the actual second world war

Totaling 85 episodes. And absolutely, this is why it's like we've gone to this, is that is absolutely our childhoods right there. That is us being like five and four up into being teenagers. I remember a very late episode, probably in the last season, where they all dressed up as the universal monsters. So like Bride of Frankenstein, Frankenstein's monster, Cup of Carlos, etc. Which is particularly weird.

Oh, if we could find it, we could do that. The lilting music just takes your heart away, doesn't it? Oh, 100%. The genius of Ronnie Hazlehurst, as I always like to say. Yeah, yeah. Right there for me with that, My Family and Other Animals. Yes. The theme tune from that and Miss Marple, the original Ken Howard Miss Marple's theme tune. God, if you want to see me crying puddles of tears, just play.

Play those three, and I'm there. So this is going back to the last time when you said Helen's got a list of music to play at your funeral. Yes, she has. Have you just revealed the triumph in there? The triumph. Two of those are on the funeral march. Miss Marple and My Family and Other Animals. The other two is Listen Up by Oasis and Columbia by Oasis. Wow. I can't think of what the other ones are.

She said it's quite a lot for a funeral. I was like, I'll be dead. Just fucking, you know, do your best to play these when I'm fucking dead. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Nice. Add a few of the speeches. Yeah, maybe we just do it as a medley. That's a segue and a half. Yeah, well, I could probably edit them until you mix them together. Okay.

So back to Hello, Hello and back to Gordon Kaye. It says a stage adaptation of the show premiered in 1986 and ran for several years in the West End, followed by tours in the UK and internationally. And it says Ross is sure that he saw it as a kid in Bournemouth, but he might be getting it mixed up with Heidi High, another production with an exclamation point. I think you've seen Heidi High, please, because I think you've told me about seeing Heidi High. Yeah, I might have seen Hello, Hello as well. I'm not sure.

And also, is this something to do with Simon's story when he saw Keith Cheggen and Orville and someone fell off the stage or something like that? I've seen Keith and Orville and I wasn't 100% sure if Orville was real or not. And I was like, I'm pretty sure it's a puppet.

And then Keith put the pit Orville down and walked off stage. And then Orville walked off after him. And I was like, fuck, it's real. The magic of theatre. And I have also seen Russ Abbott and Blunderwoman in real life as well. Brilliant. Brilliant. I didn't see anything like this as a kid. Nothing. My parents took me to see a production of South Pacific. Yeah. And remarkably, I have remained heterosexual. It's cool.

Well, yeah, you know. I did meet David Frost outside Broadcasting House once. Did you? Yeah, that was quite cool. I did also see The Muppets Live, but they were full-size Muppets. They freaked your mum out, didn't they? Yeah, the animal escaped into the crowd and Dr. Teeth came after him. Who did Dr. Teeth? Dr. Teeth. Who the hell is Dr. Teeth? He's the band leader. The band leader.

I've never seen, I've never seen an episode of the Muppets. Whoa, John, you're missing out. I'm absolutely boiling. He's, he's, he's based on Dr. John, isn't he? As in the New Orleans. Oh, like Paul Weller covered Dr. John. Yes. Yes. That's him. That's the guy. Anyway. Okay. Okay. So we're almost there, everybody. It says during the great storm of 1990, one of the few great storms that these.

tiny little incident. We have them every week now. Yeah, back in 1990. It's quite exciting. Kay was injured when a plank of wood smashed through his car window during the gale.

Despite the Mandela effect causing many people to believe that that's what led to his demise, that is not true at all, he survived with a dent in his forehead, but had no memory of the incident. Oh, I love it. That's where the universe is split, I think. That's why you can't remember it. It's a bit like Leslie Crowther had a similar thing, didn't he? Yeah. Yeah, a tree fell on his Rolls Royce. That's right. In another storm. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I found, somehow I found this... Erotic? ...thing on YouTube. Well, it was like the Central TV Christmas film.

I probably watched it in the middle central. But it was like something they made for themselves for their Christmas party. And it was Leslie Krelva driving his Rolls Royce and then having these three men who must have been famous at the time, I don't know who they were, but coming out and then basically implying that they're going to do like a casting couch thing in the changing rooms. And there was just all pictures. It was really, really kind of like, you would not get away with doing any of this now. But look up on YouTube.

I was totally wrong about Leslie Crowther. He didn't have a tree fall on him, but he did fall asleep at the wheel and crash his Rolls Royce on the M5 near Cheltenham. I do remember him almost dying, John. It was quite big news. At first, it seemed he was fine, James. But to paraphrase the Wikipedia here, he was taking anticoagulants and was diagnosed with heart trouble. What we do know is that his daughter was married to Phil Linnet of Thin Lizzy fame.

And this was in one of these great, you know, I love a good, like they don't, again, this is all the past now. But, you know, like the NME and Q, I sent John some pictures of the ones from Q, like when they would do like the most outrageous rock and roll stories ever. Yeah. And I had, I remember the one from that was that Phil Linnert.

asked Leslie Crowder, he said, can I have your daughter's hand in marriage? And he said, well, you might, well, I might as well say yes, because you've had everything else. And that has stayed with me. And that's all I got. I don't know why that has stayed with me, but it has. So there you go. Now, our last bit here, it says in 1986, Kay and co-star Vicky Michelle, again, that's it. She's a deep cut on this podcast. Vicky Michelle turns up. Is Gordon Kay in the film we're going to review? No. No, just Ross didn't have anything to put in. So he's just,

So you got offended when we were called moronic twaddle cleaves. And now you've literally lent into it by 90 degrees and you're literally making a whole. thing about... Yeah, I'm just really pushing the boundaries of what podcasting is, John. I think... Good, good, good. That's one way of putting it. So, in short, he says, Kay and co-star Vicky Michel, in character as René and Yvette, released a single, a cover of Serge Gainsbourg's Je T'aime. Moi non plus.

which reached the giddy heights of number 57 in the UK charts. That probably sold more than whatever is number one today. Is there a number one now? There still is, James. Is there? They literally get like 3,000 downloads. Yeah, and it's all based on how many times people looked on Instagram or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The minute that fucking lad baby nonsense, I was like, it's over.

Bring the shutters down. Bring the shutters down now. Did you two see the Vicky Michelle tweet that I sent you? Yes. Talking of Vicky Michelle. Happy birthday, fabulous David Bailey, CBE. Brilliant photographer, lovely man. Great memory being directed by him in the Seconda watch pad with the wonderful Ronnie Barker OB. We had such fun. Have a fab day. And then it's a picture of her and Ronnie Barker. Nothing to do with David Bailey at all.

They probably were on set for like half a day. Like, how long does it take to film the watch ad? And also, what are the hashtags that she's put after? Oh, my God. The hashtags are amazing. Hashtag David Bailey. Because everyone's searching for David Bailey by a hashtag, aren't they? Hashtag Ronnie Barker. She's added Seconda Watches. And she's hashtagged.

Thursday thoughts. I don't know what a Friday thoughts are. He's very old now, actually, isn't he, David Bailey? I think he's confined to a wheelchair as well now, which is horrible, really. And then someone has replied, after two more attacks this morning, I have combed two police forces. I am fed up with being targeted by mentally ill people. And they've put a picture on there of the guy that drove the car into people in New Orleans.

Dear listener, that is Twitter in two tweets. There you are, absolutely. Oh, blimey. If you can imagine a picture of a person just screaming into a fountain of piss, that is Twitter. If you'll just cock your beret at a jaunty angle, brandish your baguette, as we fit the boulevardier, we bring you a whiff of La Belle France, a song once banned for sheer sauciness by the BBC. but bravely revived here by our two heroes from Allo Allo. René et Yvette with Je t'aime moi non plus.

It is the handle of the vacuum cleaner. I was just saying, Ross, please don't play that. Don't now cut to it. It's already happened. Sorry, it's been undone. Cut to what? Because I thought, whenever it says, and then this bit of musical thing happens, you think, I know Ross is going to put it in and put it in for a bit too long. Yeah.

Oh, Jesus, yeah. And the trailers he puts in that are about 48 minutes long. This is the full trailer! And then sound effects. Yeah, exactly. 15 seconds of rain sound effects and then just a scream. 10 seconds will do it. 10 seconds will do it. I'm going to leap it now. That's what I used to love when Simon Kermode...

And Mayo used to do film reviews, and then they'd play a clip from a film, which would just be like wind. And it'd be like, what's the point? And then right at the end, it'd be De Niro going, fuck you, man, or something like that. And he'd be like, how does that sound mean? Because you'd be like, oh, I wonder what that was the sound of. I better go watch it. Yeah.

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Superdrug Online Doctor, though, is the go-to for expert doctor care in a click. No appointment, no fuss, with free delivery to home or a nearby pharmacy. Terms and conditions apply. Go to onlinedoctor.superdrug.com to find out more. Right, we're going to talk about the Gorgon now. Yeah, the Gorgon. Well, we start off with a cruel, don't we? Yes, Star Wars-esque. We start off with a cruel Star Wars-esque. Cruel? Cruel. A crawl. I thought you were saying K-R-U-L-L, the fantasy film. Yeah.

Crawl. Crawl. What's the wrong film? Every time you made me repeat it, I had less and less confidence that I was using the right word. Crawl. Crawl. Crawl. Crawl. No, you're saying cruel. Crawl. Crawl. Crawl. Crawl. Oh, my God. Stop your jaw from coming up. Crawl. Crawl. You did it. Yeah, thank you.

Crawl. I feel like Frankenstein teaching his creation to speak. I was thinking, I'm trying to get John to direct a film list, but his method would leave some actors in tears. No mercy. Would you say that his methodology was crawl? Yeah, absolutely. He's a crawl man. Sorry. Crawl.

Right. I have got a dyslexia and a speech impediment, guys, so these guys are brilliant. No, you haven't got a speech impediment. You're just from Dorset. It's the same thing. Cool. Does that mean when the titles are going past you on the... Yeah, words come up. I didn't know that was called a crawl. And what do they say, Cleves? Have you made any notes? No.

James, did you write it down? I didn't write it down. It said that in Germany in this time, this castle had been deserted, but a new resident has taken up home there. That kind of vibe. Which is untrue, isn't it? Because there isn't a resident, really. It's just the Gorgon. I'm paraphrasing. It probably didn't say that explicitly.

That was the line that I got. How do you spell it? Which one? The word. Crawl. L-C-R-A-W-L. The Gorgon. Crawl the Gorgon. Oh, I can't find it anyway. Anyway. So yeah, we have a crawl that says some stuff about the film, so they don't have to have...

A few scenes at the start. We have a lovely painting of the castle. Well, there is a nice painting. Well, first of all, there's the painting of the castle, but then there's a really lovely map painting. And that's my first note of sort of like the countryside. Yes. And then they never use it again. No. It's lovely. I thought, well, that's nice. I think this film is a beautiful looking film. It's very typical for Hammer. It really reminds me of Curse of the Cat People. I don't know if either of you have seen that one. It's the sequel to...

The Cat People film, which is set in Los Angeles, I think. So the black and white one, not the David Bowie one. And then Curse of the Cat People does away completely with the whole storyline of Cat People. And then it's just this kind of weird Christmassy film about this little boy that sees this woman in the snow. And it's all a bit, but it's all studio bound. So that's very much this, isn't it? Besides a few bits in Black Park where Patrick Troughton is chasing.

Set enough dogs on people, yeah. Yes, yeah. So to say from the outset it is a really beautiful film and very atypical for Hammer, I think puts you in a good place to kind of understand this film because I think it's probably the most underappreciated Hammer film going, really, compared to some of the shit that actually people say is good. This actually is good and is not kind of respected, whereas something...

crap like Scars of Dracula people think is brilliant. So what happens? Well, then we go to the painter's cottage where a nudie lady is getting a portrait painted. So there's a naked woman, Cleese, a life model. Or as Cleese puts it, a nudie lady. Don't see no boobies, though. Take that part out. What are you drinking?

Frosty Jacks or something. Frosty Jacks, I'm drinking Brew Dog Lost. I don't even know what that is. So, yeah, you basically, you go to an artist's studio, you're introduced to a character and he's painting a life model and he says something like, he's drawing a life model, sorry, and he says something like, I can start painting this tomorrow. And at first she's quite kind of charming to him, but then I think it devolves quite.

quickly, doesn't it? And it's... So when are you going to marry me? Yeah, it turns out she's pregnant. Yeah. Which is a bit of a kind of gothic melodrama trope. Yeah. And... Then he gets all cross-angry. Then he gets said, I'm going to go see your father to do the right thing. And she says, no, he'll kill you. So I was watching... The kids were in the room when I was watching this. And they go, why is he so... They were going, why is he angry? Why is he doing... Because they just don't have any kind of concept of it being a problem. Yeah. It being a problem.

getting married out of wedlock. Well, that's good. That's great, isn't it? Morality like this is idiotic. And that's how the film starts. So first of all, the artist is Bruno. Bruno Heights. And his muse slash partner is called Sasha. And Sasha kind of, they argue, Sasha runs out and she runs through, as John says, very, very picturesque.

Black Park has never looked better. And for once, bearing in mind that the first one that we ever watched, we watched Dracula AD 1972, and we said how bad the day for night filming was, and how they basically could really be bothered by that point. This looks like it was shot at night time. And it looks great. It's so much better because of that. This is from when the era that Hammer cared, basically.

Well, I don't know if they had time as such. They just wanted to make a good product. And I think by the time you get to AD 1972 and films like that, they've just gone very sloppy because they're making like a film a month. And it's just like, oh, yeah, this will do. Whereas with these films up to about 1966, the Bray Studio ones, they're really beautifully shot.

Our mate Robinson, I can't think of his name now, Tony Robinson or whatever, that did the lighting design and the production design. He was the guy that did all the... Bernard Robinson. Yeah, he took care with stuff. Or Michael Reed, yeah. Yeah. So then she ends up somehow by some device that I can't remember being revealed to be...

transmogrified into stone, doesn't she? Her body is taken to Peter Cushing's lab. And we see her stone hand fall out. Yes! And knocked her finger off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In homage to Mark Gattis. Mark Gattis. 60 years in the future. Yeah, a reverse homage. But at that point, we don't see...

any kind of inkling of what's turned into stone? She sees something, screams, and then starts getting bubbling on her flesh. We've all been there. Yeah. And then the next thing we see is people walking in, not struggling under the weight of a full-size stone woman and knocking her finger off. And if you found a statue, would you take it to the pathologist and say, I think this is the body? I think it's the body. Yeah.

Surely you would recognise a local girl and be like, why is there a stone effigy of this local girl? I wouldn't take it to the pathologist because there's no precedent of people being turned to stone. No. Am I right in thinking at this point that there's no other stone atrophication, I don't know if that's a word, that happens outside of the castle?

This is the first victim so far. This is the first victim. And Peter Cushing touches her stone face. Oh, does he? Yes, he does. In quite a creepy way, I think. Yes, he corrects. What I'm trying to make out is that everyone else seems to be, throughout the film, seems to be lured to the castle. This is the only other set. But in this bit, whoever the villain is, is kind of...

having a stroll. A roam. Oh, yes. So this is the only time they're wandering the woods rather than being in the castle. That's what I thought. At other points, it's more like a siren's call to go to the castle. And at this point, it just seems to be getting unlucky by seeing something in the distance.

Here's that trigger warning. You might want to skip forward a couple of minutes if this is something which may affect you. Then we have a kind of reveal what's happened to the artist then, don't we? He has hung himself after being accused of her murder. Yeah. Yes. So, yeah, we see that he has taken his own life by hanging himself in a tree and he's got a bit of a pecked face, it appears, doesn't it? Which is quite...

I feel like I looked away at that point. Well, I think birds have been at him or something because he's got blood running down his face, which wouldn't have come from a noose on his neck. So he obviously, not knowing what has happened to, what was the name again, James? Sasha. Sasha. So obviously out of perhaps shame for what has happened, he's taken his own life. And I think it's quite an interesting device because, you know, with Psycho, it's famous that you get,

Janet Leigh is the main character and the star introduced, and then she's killed off in the first reel. This you get two characters who are introduced and murdered within like the first three minutes. This is one of my notes. I put, one of the interesting things about this film is there doesn't seem to be a central protagonist that's very, very late in the year. And they've replaced them by the father of the, of the artist. All right. All right. I just think this is a fascinating film because it's just so weird.

Everything about it is not by the book at all.

One of the odd things is, and I know it's been the recurring thing we've said so many times, or I've certainly said it a few times during this podcast, is there are some fantastic ideas here. And this is so almost fantastic. It would have been so good. The kernel of really brilliant ideas here, but they didn't quite see it through. And with this one, it's like the whole, them being really married to the whole, the person must become stone, really ends up hamstringing the plot.

Because it then turns into the whole, like, Peter Cushing is hiding the fact that people have been turned into stone, despite the fact that it's so obvious that people are. They bring her body in. And it's like, she's been turned to stone. And people, even in 1920s Germany, because they do tell us that it's like the 90s, or no, sorry, 1910s Germany. People would go, as Ross just said, well, she's been turned into stone. Whereas if you've just gone, she's been frightened to death.

That's good. That's way better. That's more like, Oh, has she? What's actually killed her off? Whereas the whole, and we'll get onto it in a minute. The dad literally writing his long autobiography. Hurry, hurry. I've got, I've only got a minute to write my letter. It's about hours writing.

I am turning to stone. And it's just that if they hadn't been married to that, there would have been so much more. There would have been way more drama and tension in the middle act. The whole village is in on it though, because they seem to, but the whole village is trying to, because they don't want any outsiders coming in, do they? Because we do have the, the father of the artist comes to the coroners. The coroners. Yes. And the father, do you better say so? He's Paul Heights.

Or is he? Hold on a second. No, no, no. He's Professor, isn't he? Paul is the son, yes. That's right. So he's Professor Jules Heitz. And he turns up and then says that this is a shambles. I know what you're going to say. It's a whitewash. This is a whitewash. You're going to say my daughter was murdered. He murdered him. And you're going to say that that poor guy, my son is the murderer and this is absolute tosh and nonsense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a bohemian...

Liberty. Which is a great scene. And we're introduced to Cushing with his fantastic facial hair in this, probably awake as well. Bit of a cough. And I do remember, I'm sure reading a book at some point, which said that the crew for this film started calling him Dr. Namakoff. Right. Because he played the character with a cough all the way through the film or something, which I thought was really funny. So at the start of it, he's like coughing into his little tissue.

So straight away you meet Cushing and you're like, he's very ambiguous. I can't tell if he's the goody. I can't tell if he's the baddie. I can't tell who is the baddie. I can't really tell anything. And I think that's really interesting that you're kind of introduced into this world where the morality does seem quite, you can see that something wrong is happening in that it's obvious bollocks that she died however she died, that they say.

Because we know she's been turned to stone. And we know the film's called The Gorgon. Well, that's the difficult thing, isn't it? And that's what always annoys me with Hammer, that they give away so much literally just in the title, like Hands of the Ripper. You know that Jack the Ripper is going to be in it. But what happens then is that you kind of have the father character brought in.

Yeah, so you think, oh, he's going to be the main character. He's now the main character. The main character, yes. And then he – so they have this confrontation with Cushing, and he says, oh, you've got great facial hair, but I don't agree with you. And Cushing says, well, you've got this really weird, like – Sort of grey, sort of spiky hair. Grey painted wig, yes. The kids are laughing at that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So then – Strong look. I think that they play it really straight. They don't play it for laughs.

I think that's really great. And then we kind of moved to the home of the artist's character, his studio, which has now been, his father's there now with the servant. And we have some angry yokel locals who come in.

To firebomb the place. Yeah. I wrote, oh look, the reform party have turned up. It was like the summer, wasn't it? It was like the far right wing riots in the summer. The Farage riots, yeah. The Farage riots. Lee Anderson is there. Exactly. Waving a Greg's sausage roll in people's faces. Banging on about the Somme. So again, we have... Yeah, I think someone threw some Molotov cocktail through the window. Yes. And how would you put out a fire?

Would you believe a flammable broom? That is brilliant, that bit. Because you do think, get some water straight away. And with small fires, yes, deny them oxygen. But the fire is so massive. Yes. And then by the end of the scene, it's just totally disappeared, isn't it? It is on my bucket list to throw a Molotov cocktail. But when my kids asked me what was on my bucket list, it was one of the ones I declined to sort of share with them. I haven't got a bucket list, really. Get on that quick, John.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think that's quite an interesting scene because, yeah, like we've said, the natives are trying to get rid of the incomers, which is obviously a massive horror trope. But you're kind of like, why? Why don't they want people to find out what is happening? This is our Gorgon. We don't want you lot coming in here. Yeah. Because you're kind of like, what? It'd be great to come and get rid of this Gorgon. Yeah. It's actually fucking up our lives. What are they enjoying, you know, about having,

people turn to stone. And it's just, and then Pat Troughton turns up as a very kind of jumped up, militaristic. Fantastic police uniform. Yeah. With a spiky helmet and everything. And a cape. Pickle Haub helmets or something like that, aren't they? What the Germans wore in World War I. I put down that he'd be, he'd be applauded in Dogston today.

And from last time I was in East London, when I went to see that really brilliant Weird Walks, Daisy Rickman live show, a lot of the audience were, if not dressed like Patrick Troughton. That facial hair, I definitely saw. People were in capes. Amazing. I thought he looked really cool in that. I was like, yeah, yeah, he looked really cool. I love this hair.

Having a really, because you're so used to Patrick and having the Beetle mop top, aren't you? Yes. From The Second Doctor. Yeah. With that really short cropped hair. Yeah. A really handsome man. You can see. Yeah. I knew that was going to be turning up. Very handsome man, I always think. Yeah. And it's just weird how he could play.

You know, like clove. I think we're introduced to Christopher Lee now, aren't we? Exactly that. In my notes, it says... Very interesting because they cut to, like, some stock footage. Leipzig. Leipzig. Yeah. And that's really unusual, isn't it? Yeah. They had lots of, like... We're having lots of painted backdrops and glass... What's it called? Glass... Glass shot. Glass shot, yeah. For this, we actually had a... It looked like something out of The Sound of Music. Yes. Or, like, panned across the... Yeah.

I reckon we've got a shot of lighting somewhere. Let's pop that in. You probably could just go down to Pinewood and hire it out of some kind of library or something, couldn't you? Or Elstree or somewhere like that. So yeah, then we're introduced to Big Chris Lee, also wearing incredibly insane facial hair, aged makeup, and just very bizarre. Why?

kind of Holmesian persona. Yeah. Like this crabby kind of... Is he meant to be the teacher of the artist when he was young? Yes. But I don't know what he's meant to have taught him because he doesn't seem to be like an art tutor, does he? No. He's just looking at some porcelain. There's a long shot of it. So he basically looks ludicrous. So do you think if one of us was murdered, John, that Bob Mitchell would have had to come and help solve the crime?

He was the tutor at our art college. Why would you go and get your art tutor? I suppose if the police are no help, you think, who do we know that's a mover and shaker in the kind of upper echelons of society here? And it is that kind of, it's like Sherlock Holmes' brother, isn't it? I can't think of his name. Mycroft. Yeah, when they call in, you know, help from him upstairs, it's that kind of vibe.

But awful makeup, awful audience makeup. Just awful, awful aged makeup. It's like kind of Star Trek original series aged makeup, isn't it? Just like drawn on. Drawn on wrinkles, yeah. Yeah, like when Vic Reeves and Bob Mortimer did Doctor Who as the Who. Yeah. And they've just drawn wrinkles on Pertwee's face. I can't remember who was Pertwee now. But yeah, so we meet big Chris Lee. And it takes 20 minutes into the film to meet him, doesn't it? Yeah.

And he's like, he's a pompous. He's only been for a bit and then goes away again for quite a long time. For a long time. So yeah, so he disappears again. And then we go back to our nominal lead, who is doing some investigation. And he's trying to root around and, you know, find out what's happened to his son. And then basically he dies as well.

He gets summoned out, doesn't he? Has anyone mentioned the Gorgon Jet at this point? I can't remember. Yes, I think. That's what I struggle to grasp with this film. And I've seen it so many times. And it's like, when does it become apparent that the villain is the villain in terms of the Gorgon? Pretty late. Yeah, really quite late in the film.

Only when big Chris Lee stands up to tie things up. Obviously, his character knows all about mythology and blah, blah, blah. So he's a character Netflix asked to put into it. What's going on, yes. So I can't remember exactly what happens, but the father is kind of drawn away.

to Castle Borsky. How is he drawn there, James? By the siren's call. He hears the siren's call. Is that how it happens? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's also a full moon. It's all about to remember. Yes. It's one of these films. So when I was a kid, it always just confused me how often a full moon would happen. Yeah. Because in werewolf films, and this is in effect, like, for some reason, they've linked this to the full moon so it can be almost like a...

where we'll film by stealth, that the Gorgon only comes out on a full moon, but the full moon will come for like a couple of days, then a day break, and then it'll come out for a day. It's just like the phases of the moon are all over the place. But in actual fact, it's once a month about approximately. So this film takes place over several months, but it's made... One of its shortcomings is that it feels like it takes place over a few days or weeks, maybe.

So, yeah, so he's drawn out. He goes up to the castle, which is, in effect... Does he go up to the castle? Yes, he does. Yes. Which is, in effect, the same set as the reptile, because those stairs, they keep falling down at the same stairs as the reptile. Probably also the same stairs in Dracula as well. I also...

Plague of the Zombies, probably. I also noted that Peter Cushing's Lab is classic Hammer set, isn't it? I feel like we've seen this a few times. Like the big open room stage style set. I said to the kids, he's going to cut the top of that person's head off. It doesn't matter what film he's in. He could do that. It is sleek now, couldn't he? What he loved saying was how he'd gone and talked to a doctor about the real way to do it and he'd learnt a way to put his hands and stuff.

With the sets and stuff like that, I think they do become kind of comforting. Yes. And when you watched a lot of these films, you're like, oh, I recognize that. You know, there's people on Instagram now who are identifying Doctor Who props from like 1963 and how they turned up in like, you know, Empire Strikes Back. And all sorts of stuff. And you think, actually, you know, the time between Doctor Who starting and the Empire Strikes Back is literally like 13 or 14 years. It's not actually even that long.

Even though, you know, the two things feel so wildly different. And it was probably the same with props that were in. It's one of those things that I would like to see, but I've got no inclination of doing it. But having a thing where you would show all the Hammer films in order and show how those sets just evolved. Like, oh, we put this on. But this come off, this came back on. I would sit and watch that. And I think that's what AI has been invented for, please. Because AI can just generate all that stuff, can't it? Eventually.

So yeah, so he sees the Gorgon, or it's implied that he sees... I don't think we see a Gorgon at this point, do we? I think we see it peeping out from behind like a pillar. Yeah, it's quite creepy. The way they shoot it is quite creepy and quite good. Yeah, however, it doesn't move around a lot. And considering they cast a ballerina... Yes, the floating effect. Yeah, it basically pokes its head out from behind a pillar at one point. I think the Gorgon works right until the end when it's a mask.

unmasked and then it really doesn't work. We'll get to that at the end. So yeah, so he basically sees the Gorgon and then as we know what happens, he, but I think, has he seen it in a reflection or something? No, no, no, he just sees it. It's the next person who sees it. Oh, but how does he manage to delay his ossification? Every time you become stonified.

You have enough time to run home. Do what must be done. Have a very, very long protracted conversation with someone about... Conversation with your manservant. Yeah, to get you some paper to write a letter. I thought you were going to say have a very, very long shit. Probably that as well. Maybe, you know, if you could poo out some rocks, it might slow down the process. I've got to be honest, I've been there a few times, please. So having seen the Gorgon, the father starts to kind of write down, you know, and explaining to...

his other son, you know, this is what's happened to me. You know, there is something supernatural afoot here.

And what I've put down is I was quite amazed that he gets to three pages. It's just like, the note would be like supernatural Gorgon. Gorgon in the castle. Don't go to the castle. Do not go to the castle. Don't trust Peter Cushing. You know, that at best. But, you know, he's written an essay. I'd be pleased to get that in from my A-level students. You know, that was pretty good. And then I've also put- Beautiful handwriting as well. No rush. There's no rushing with that. No, no, no, of course not. I put that he's got more, he's got more down there than the notes.

that I put down for when we watched Survivor, which I literally squeaked two pages out of. It was so dreary. That bloody plane. Oh, man. Yeah, so he then... He was dead all along. He then cocks it, and he's turned to stone then at that point, hasn't he? Do we see him? He looks stonified at that point with makeup, doesn't he? Yeah. We don't see him kind of stiff at that point, do we?

Because what I'm saying, what I'm trying to say here is that... It's not that kind of film, John. No. When we see him, he's sat at a table, isn't he? So he would be stoned in that pose, presumably. So he would be stuck in that position. When we next see him, he's being dug up by his son, as you do. He's in a coffin, so...

Have they had to like... Break his legs off. Yeah, snap him up to put him in. And the same with the girl, you know, we don't know how the girl fell and, you know, how she kind of transmodified. And have they been bought by garden centres? Yeah. Next to a buddha. Yeah. What else do you see these days? A gnome putting down his trousers. Not the kind of garden centres I go to. Right.

After that, we then get what I call, like this, this is where it sags for me. And this is, we then get quite a long, long period when the third member of the family, who is the other son, that he is Paul, Paul Heitz. Yes. Then he then turns up and he also wants it. Having received this letter, he wants to get to the bottom of the mystery here. Yeah. We then get. As you would. As you would. Absolutely understandable. And what I've put in here is.

They really needed to make this plot stand a bit more dynamic then at this point. It feels quite meandering. Who falls in love with Peter Cushing's... nurse sort of at this medical clinic. Yes. He also is sort of enchanted out by the Gorgon, but he doesn't fully see her. No, he sees her reflected in the... He sees her reflected. In the mirror. In the pond. Oh, yes. And then the mirror. And then the pond again, I think. Yes.

And as a result of this, this doesn't kill him, but it does put him in hospital for a couple of days. And then it is the nurse who is sort of like the first person who he sees when he wakes up. He starts to really, really fall for this nurse. But he then also tends to feel that through his conversations with Peter Cushing, I've written down, you know, who is he trying to shield? That Cushing is hiding someone and knows something that's going on. And this is how my kids worked out what was happening. And I was like, what?

Oh, right. Yeah. Interesting. So you didn't work it out literally straight away. I didn't. So stupid. No, I didn't. Oh, right. Okay. I'll happily admit that I've written down there. Oh, wait, she is the Gorgon. I had no clue. Because I guessed right from the start. And I'm talking about when I first saw this film years and years ago now. Yeah. I think you do have a kind of MacGuffin. Not really a MacGuffin. You have the red herring of the.

patient in the kind of... Oh, yeah. Yes. I was going to say there's only two female characters, but it's actually three, isn't there? Yeah. What do you want to call it? An asylum? Yeah. You don't really know what Peter Cushing is up to. It's a mental facility, isn't it? Yes. So basically... Medical facility. There's a poor woman that keeps coming out and screaming and then being dragged off again. And what I mean by that is it's an extra...

who has no speaking part, really. The poor woman has to just come out and scream. I've got to say, I saw Nosferatu last night, so I'm getting a bit mixed up between the two films a little bit. So I think that basically they want you to think that she is the Gorgon. Because they keep mentioning that she keeps escaping. Right.

If it's when there's a bloody full moon or whatever, I don't know. But I think that that is the kind of duality of what's going on there. Right, okay. I didn't get the, you know. Yes. The double bluff. Yeah, you have the sun ball turn up, like James says. Does he come with Big Chrisley? No. No. So he kind of spends very little time there normal, and he's drawn to the castle quite quickly.

Peter Cushion is sending Barbara Shelley, it is Barbara Shelley, isn't it, to sort of like spy on him to find out what he knows. But then she's kind of like a bit of a double agent going backwards and forwards between the two because she falls in love with... Well, that's the really interesting part about this film. But I think it's, I can't think of another hammer where there's a romance, which is the central part of the film.

And I think that's what makes this film interesting, is that she is this kind of fallible heroine who is also the villain of the film. And the guy that she falls in love with comes into the film.

Like 40 minutes into halfway through the film. Yes. Agree with all that. And they, and they don't give her enough time. No, no. Like she's almost like a background character. Yes. Oh, actually she's the main person. I agree with you there. Maybe they're trying to make it obvious. Maybe so. But then once again, this is, it said this kind of the bit where it lags, it's kind of like you want it to be.

you either want to really start to believe in their relationship. Yes. And I never really felt these two are madly in love with each other. No. People say they fall in love so quickly in all films, don't they? Well, I think they see each other once. Yeah. Then he goes to the castle and is, you know, turned to stone. And then he wakes up and looks at her and he's like, oh, look at that. Oh, I know you said that. Yeah. I mean, Barbara Shelley is absolutely beautiful and she's a very good actress. So it kind of works in that kind of...

magical realism kind of way, like Curse of the Cat People or something. You know, it is, at the end of the day, it is a hammer horror film. It's not Ken Loach. No, no, no. It's not a drama, it's a horror. But as a result of that, as I said, you've then got a good 45 minutes of no horror. Yeah. Of just, like, them trying to work this plot out and not quite... Yes. Not quite fully commissioned to it. Because what you have then is this kind of...

doomed romance, gothic feel, which is completely atypical for Hammer and quite brave for Hammer. And I don't know if they were, you know, just trying something different or what. Well, they just came off the back of a massive flop of the opera, hadn't they? Oh, is that what it was with Herbert Long? Yeah, dreadful film. Which I never realised they made into my... Yeah, I've never seen that. I'd really like to see that, but it's...

It's one of the ones that they never seem to release on DVD or VHS, and it was never on telly. So, yeah, so basically, he wakes up, his hair's gone grey, and does he get on the blower to Christopher Lee? Yeah, because I was surprised to see a phone in this. Yes, and that's when my notes was, Jesus, this is supposed to be 1910. Yeah. And that is the only modern accoutrement in any way, shape, or form. Oh, I forgot about it.

A classic hammer. And it's always, it's got to be a hammer. He digs up his own father. Yeah. So you've got to dig up some. You've got to dig something up. Yeah. Yeah. So basically he digs up his own father, finds that his own father is in the coffin and he's stoned. And then he confronts Cushing with like, why have you written the thing post-mortem thing saying he had heart failure or something? I mean, his heart did fail. Why would, if you're trying to.

cover up the fact that this is all happening? Why would you bother burying the body? Why don't you just smash it up? There's no one from the family there to see the funeral or anything. I think you're literally going one step too far with any kind of thought process in this film, Cleves. Because it exists in its own universe, and I just think it's one of those films where... They needed to have a... What's it called when you... Is it interned?

What's it called when you dig something up? Exhumation. Exhumation, yeah. They could have an exhumation. Yes. Internment is when you bury them. Yeah, so you have all that, and that's all classic hammer, and that's at night, and that's probably under a full moon, I can't remember. So then we have more clashes with Cushing, and then Christopher Lee turns up and does his pompous thing. Yes, I've put...

This mystery can now only be solved by Big Chris Lee wearing syphilis-addled philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche's moustache. It's a huge moustache. It's superb. He has a bit of confrontation with Pat Troutman on this. He's like NWA. He's not impressed with them at all. He said, I'm good friends with the...

He says it's his brother, doesn't he? He's like the home secretary or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, he kind of makes disparaging comments about democracy, doesn't he? Yeah. And he goes, oh, this democracy of yours. This is a police state or something, he says, doesn't he? Oh, and if any of your democratic friends turn up and harass me like they did my late friend, they'll receive a short shrift. And I thought, yeah, you wouldn't. If you were a far right-wing, pissed-up mob.

you probably wouldn't mess with the Chris Lee. He can handle himself, can't he? As we see later on. Yeah, we came back a few years later and actually killed a load of the Nazis, didn't we?

He did. In real life. In real life, yeah. But in the past, but yeah. Not in the mid-70s. For the purposes of the film. He probably did as well. And when he was collecting all these police badges. So yes, we'll rattle through this very, very quickly. Through looking through the police records, they say, show us every woman that's turned up in this town in the last 20 years. And make comments on which ones are pretty and which ones are hot. It's probably quite realistic knowing how the police actually operate.

that's chris lee rather than evenings yes um they they then manage they they figure out that the nurse who um young master zeiss is in love with yes saying the right the right name it is did i say he's like uh heiss heiss that the that the um paul heiss has fallen in love with the nurse

that, oh, she was in fact also one of Cushing's patients for a while. Yes. And then they discover through Peter Cushing, big Chris Lee does some amazing breaking in. Window climbing. Window climbing. Once again, using his real life commando skills. Yeah.

To break in and he gets a look at the, and then we find out that, ah, the nurse was, you know, he was hypnotizing her for a while. Yes. And that, you know, she was going through these stages where she would freak out and disappear, you know, and freak out and go mad. And as I've put there in my nose, oh, wow. Okay. She is the Gorgon. Yeah. Protagonist is then reunited with the nurse who says, take me away from all this. Got to go tonight.

We've got to go tonight. We've got to get out of this awful... Look at his face. Chris Lee's face. He's 42 making this film, so he's still quite sprightly. I couldn't have done all that when I was 42. When's the last time you climbed in a window, John? When I was staying in Butlins in Pcheli with school on Venture Week, so when I was 11, the chalet door swung shut.

So I had to climb in through a window to unlock the door. So probably when I was about 11. I think I had to climb in your window once because the whole course was waiting to go on a trip somewhere and you hadn't turned up. So I had to climb in your window of your flat to wake you up. I was going to say Simon did it once in that flat. Yeah. When he'd gone home with the wrong girl. Classic. John. Even then.

I've not had to climb in through a window, but I did manage to go out without my keys. So I was slightly flustered and sort of locked myself out of the flat. And so the only way that I could get back in was to leap over a fence, was to sort of commandeer myself over a fence. I thought, it's one of these things. If someone sees me doing this, this looks like I'm breaking and entering. But even still, you know what I'm like. It is implied that...

Peter Cushing is in love with her at this point. Yes. Which is weird and comes out of nowhere. Because he's in love with her. And he knows that she is the Gorgon. Yes. There is a kind of a power imbalance going on there, isn't there? You know, you've got someone who's a bit mental in your, in your, in your asylum, in your care. Yes. You bring her out of that. And you hypnotise them. Hypnotise them. Make her your assistant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So morally, I think.

We can call Peter Cushing the villain of this film, really, can't we? Yeah, he is. Because he comes out as a stinker. And I think the Gorgon really comes out of it as being a character that doesn't... Yeah, tragic. Doesn't know it's doing wrong. It's just trapped. Doesn't really know what it's doing. So they talk about, at one point, they go through the story of the three Gorgons. So there were three sisters, and there was Medusa, someone else, and what's the name of this one?

Is Megara one? Megara. There's Megara in Doctor Who as well, so I might be confused. So are we led to believe that this is the actual Gorgon from ancient Greece? Yes. It's its spirit. Because at some point, Chris Lee goes, her body died over 2,000 years ago, but this is her spirit! Or something along those lines here. It possesses you then, does it? I don't know. They don't go into that. I don't know if she...

has lived for 2,000 years, as in Barbara Shelley. Yeah. Or it could be a case that she's been possessed by the spirit. Yes. Again, yeah, they don't waste our time with that. Yeah, which I think is fine. I don't think that part needs to be explained. But if it was a possession, they could easily have made a Gorgon too. Oh, easy. The Gorgon 1972, AD 1972. Yeah, they could. So, I mean, what happens now is that there's a lot of running around.

Christopher Lee is kind of forgotten, isn't he? And left in a house somewhere with Peter, Peter, not Peter, Patrick Troughton. And then our kind of, or is there a sword fight or something in a house? Oh, there's a fantastic sword fight, yeah. There's a good, yeah, Christian shows the chops that serve him so well in the Kung Fu Dracula. Yeah. The seven golden vampires or whatever the hell it's called when he does.

So, yes, our protagonist, again, I keep forgetting his name. Paul or something. Paul decides to go to the castle. To the castle. Yes. To go and confront her. And then, dun, dun, dun, wouldn't you know it, Peter Cushing is already there waiting for her. And hiding behind a statue. It's quite well done. Yeah.

And then they then get to fighting, as they tend to do in these Hammer productions. I would say the sword fighting was better than the fights in Captain Kronos, which is pretty much sold on the swatch bottle. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is. Well, yeah, it's kind of like Cushing's got a sword. The other guy's got like a candelabra.

kind of situation going on there, but it's, it's good. It looks proper dangerous. Yeah. It does look proper dangerous. Does Christopher turn up at some point as well? Yes, he does. He turns up to save the day. The Gorgon then turns up.

and arrives and we see the Gorgon in her full effect. And I've put in my notes, it doesn't look quite so scary now. When you see her close up, she's not so scary. And the makeup is terrible. That's always the way with monsters, isn't it? You never want to see, there's no reason ever to have the close up or the big reveal. We'll talk about Maserati in a minute. Oh yeah, yeah. So you're always just a bit like, oh dear. And I think this film is really the worst case of this.

Ever. It was the same with the reptile as well, when you saw the reptile. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, she is beheaded by... Big Chris Lee comes up behind and hacks her head off. Is that what happens? Yeah. After Paul has seen her. Yes. Because he turns a stone as well. That's the end. Cushing is also stonified. Yes. Yes. Yes. So Cushing is the nominal hero of this film.

Chops her head off. No, no, big Christopher Lee. No, no, no. Sorry, Christopher Lee. And then, so it's a tragic romance. And then you see her head roll off. But through some kind of horrible dissolve, it just turns into the head of like a shock window dummy. I don't know if it was quite good. It looks nothing like her at all.

I just think they could have done it in so many different ways. Because that was the point where it's like, oh, right, he was right, kids, like an hour ago when you saw this. She is the Gorgon. It just looks nothing like her. And I think you're a bit like, you could be forgiven for thinking, who was the Gorgon? Because it just looks nothing like her at all. It could be like, who was the Gorgon? Why was the Gorgon? When was the Gorgon? So, yeah, for me.

They could have just done a shot where it was Barbara Shelley lying on the floor and they just did a trick shot where they put something in front of her. But they didn't do that. They did. They kind of done a life cast from it. They must have just sculpted it, done a sculpture of it. But it's like they've painted like gloss red lipstick on it, which looks really awful. It just looks awful. And it's very disappointing because I think you just, you have that reveal at the end and it's just like, that's crap.

It's a really unusually miserable ending, isn't it? Because it is just everyone's dead except for Christopher Lee. Chris Lee, who says her torment or her curse is at an end now. Yeah, yeah. As our main protagonist also succumbs, although at a different speed to his father and to other people. Well, just like the new movies, it takes a lot of time and how long it's going to go. Maybe because she was in love with him and she's just like, she feels sad that she's killed.

Yeah, possibly, possibly. And then that's it. And then as usual with Hammer, no Coda, bang, the end. The end. Christopher Lee has to trudge down to greet Patrick Troughton. Patrick Troughton, yeah. Yeah, I've killed everyone. Go for a pint. There was a near miss where when Christopher Lee went to decapitate the Gorgon, she didn't move out of way when she was meant to. Oh, gosh. And a crew member had to jump in and push off. Oh, God. Yeah, so Christopher Lee nearly killed.

another person add it to his extensive um well who knows it was sealed up john i couldn't get into anyway there we go

Now, Ross, I also see that you've included in on the scripts. Oh, yeah. You threw out to Blue Sky and said, we're going to be watching the Gorgon. Anyone got any thoughts? Yeah, we've had a couple of people come back to us on this. Well, this is cool. Yeah, so I thought we could add this in when we give our scores. Yeah. So Philip Gwynn-Jones has come to us and he said, it's a very Fisher theme. Love in the face of evil might not be enough.

Yes, the makeup is a little wonky, although I don't think it's that bad. But the performances and the direction are more the makeup for it. Yes, I agree. And then we got Sam Harvey says, I love that it feels inevitably tragic from the outset with no heroic conclusion like most early Hammer films. They're very different films. To me, it has a similar metaconic poetic tone to The Vampire Lovers, though Camilla has a lot more agency than Carla Slash.

Whatever the name of the Gorg was. Moringa. Megara. Megara. Megara, that's it. Then Carla and Megara. Oh, I don't know. I don't know if I agree with that. Oh, interesting. So, yeah, what are the scores on the doors for this one? Okay, so I was going to give it a one. Here we go. Because I didn't enjoy it that much. But now I'm giving it a five. But now I'm going to give it a two.

Surprised by that, Cleves. I thought you'd like it more. I love what it looked like. I'm not a big one for romance, and it had too much romance in it for me, because it was a dated kind of romance, and I find those kind of stories unbelievable. It's just very gothic. It's super gothic. And when you were talking about, well, this is a rare romantic hammer, it made me think of...

the vampire, the prize of Dracula, which is another one I didn't enjoy very much. Also a great film. James, what did you... Again, I don't...

I don't consciously set out to mirror Ross in any way, shape or form, but it was, but a two for me too. In as much that I thought it looked very beautiful. It's certainly the most aesthetically, you know, one of the more aesthetically pleasing hammers we've watched. And also it said the novelty and the interest of this script, it said the, the lack of the, the central protagonist and the fact that I was actually quite surprised by, Oh, that's who the Gorgon is, you know, so well done for that. But it was pretty, it, it,

dragged in the middle a lot. It could have done, and the whole, they actually get turned to stone. I think if they would have changed it around to make it so there was more of a mystery, I think that kind of last third wouldn't have been so loose. More Patrick on as well, I think, personally. Yeah, yeah, of course. You can never have too much, can you?

Well, that's what he said. For me, I'm going to give it a big, strong, solid four. Oh, wow. It's one of my favourite hammers. I just love everything, really, that it kind of throws, it just throws everything in, but turns it all on its head. And I think it's very underappreciated because there's so many, like I said earlier, there's so many crap hammers that people rave about.

just because they've got naked women in. And I think this one is a proper stab at, even if it's a failed stab, at doing something slightly different. Yeah. And also, like, up until this point, they basically have taken, oh, this remake Universal horror films. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like, okay, let's try and stab it. Yeah, they've done something totally new here. You know, we can laugh at the makeup now, but they've cast Christopher Lee totally against type.

He's not handsome in this at all. Peter Cushing is this kind of kind of baddie. You don't have a kind of central character really until an hour into the film. And he's a guy who's in a hospital bed and then he's gone grey and stuff. It just does loads of really interesting things with tropes that are already by 1964 or whatever it was.

quite kind of jaded and a bit kind of, yeah, I just think it's a really kind of brave attempt at something slightly different. A bit like Thingy Was that we watched a few weeks ago, Captain Kronos. And I think the ones that do something different should be lauded a bit more often than very boring films like Dracula, Prince of Darkness, which was a couple of years after this. Just absolutely.

You could watch paint dry. I'm just checking which Dracula film we're doing this year. I don't think it's... No, I think it's Taste the Blood of Dracula, isn't it? I think so. You know, that's a good film, but it doesn't do things differently. And I think that was the problem with Hammer, or it started to become the problem with Hammer. They didn't do things differently. I think that's the problem in movies, full stop. Yeah, well, it's just like Hollywood now, isn't it? There's a formula.

superhero superhero superhero it's like fucking hell guys just make something for a million quid with three people and a car and yeah you don't need all this bullshit uh you know i got a good book for christmas which is all about um the story behind hollywood's biggest flops and most of them are about like this did really well we're gonna we're gonna yeah yeah

Because it all involves such huge sums of money. But it's the whole, what is the least amount of gamble that we can put in? Oh, has this works already? Do another one. Do another one. They've always done it, but I think it's at its worst now. Oh yeah, it's really bad. Because there's no middle tier films anywhere, as you were saying, John. No. Everything's either a big tentpole blockbuster or something done straight to video.

I think that's where horror is good, though, because something I've read, they said horror is always one which will be... That's right. Popular. It's always going to be popular. People are always going to go and watch horror films at the cinema because they like the experience of doing that, watching that in a group. And also, you hardly ever have a horror film which is going to cost a shitload of money. It's always like that middle ground. We watched...

Not horror, but we watched over the New Year's Wicked Little Letters. Letters, yes. With, I can't think of her name now. Jessie Buckley? Jessie Buckley is in it. And who's the other lady, James? She's in Peep Show? She's won an Oscar. What's her bloody name? Shout out to the listeners, we can't hear you. No, no, you know who she is, Cleaves. James is Googling. I'm not aware of this film.

Oh, it's great. You'd really like it, please, but you couldn't watch it with the girls. Well, I bet. Try me. Olivia Colman. Olivia Colman. For fuck's sake. I've got to guess that. So I was like, I don't want to watch any of these mob films. So we found this because it's period set in. And it's about poison pen letters that are sent in at some little village in like the start of the 20th century. And it's really, really funny. It's really engrossing.

There's an awful lot of swearing in it. I'd say there's not a line which probably isn't fuck, cunt or something like that. I would say any film I watch of the kids, I'm shouting that at them all the way through to stand up to shut up so I can hear what's fucking being said on the screen. Why do they have to talk about every line that someone said? And then say what's happening? But that probably cost...

Next to nothing. And it's great. And it made loads of money. You know, it doubled its money. So it's like, I just wish more films were like that or more films were accessible like that than just crap blockbusters that you're just like, I have no interest. I don't go and see them. The thing is, a lot of them do get made. We just don't see them. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But that's the thing. They're hard to see. And James, you see they're making a new Star Wars film with Rey. Yeah. Of trilogy, isn't it? It's like, oh, God.

What's it going to be about? Who cares now? And now it's time for something horrific. Okay, well, we're both going to see Nosferatu. Yeah, go on then. Let's hear it. James loved it. Okay, I absolutely loved it. As you said, you've got to go and see it in the cinema because I saw it in one that had Dolby Atmos sounds. Yeah, there's some amazing him moving around. Round sounds. Amazing, amazing, amazing.

And what he's gone for, and the vibe is, it's the whole, it's at one point she says, is evil outside of me or is it inside of me? And that's kind of like the pitch of the movie, which is the whole, do you have these unconscious parts of you which are bad and evil? So there's that. And also the whole notion of being in a nightmare. And then when you're asleep, you see, you've got unconscious parts of you. And some of the editing is like you're in a nightmare. Yes. And it's brilliant.

And I thought I was on board. I loved all the actors were really, really good. I love, there was, it's really hard because like, but you know, the, you know, the Dracula story so well, but they twist it around enough. Well, yeah, it's weird because they fucked up the story. They messed around the story for Nosferatu anyway, but at the same time, it's really hard to like, I was going to say, I was going to say the Renfield character, but I don't know what the name of the character is in Nosferatu, but he's really good. Yes. Yeah. The guy at Rev. I take it you don't see Whitby.

No, it's all in Germany. It's all set in Germany. I'm still waiting for a Dracula, a proper Dracula set in Whitby because it's never happened. Make it, John. John Poutley's Dracula. I'd love to make it. The only one that's ever done it is the BBC one with Louis Jourdan. Not another one has ever done it, which is mad because it's such an iconic part of... There's so many fucking goths everywhere. They can't... It's such an amazing place to shoot in, I would say.

Yes. We loved it. Well, I really loved it. Ross? I love what it looked like. He does the best night photography. Yeah, it looks great. And the Northman. But basically, they're just filming the day, and they just take out a load of the colours. And it just looks so good, and it looked amazing. The first half, and I think for me, the first half always in the Dracula story is great. Going to Castle Dracula, being trapped in Castle Dracula, that is the best part for me, always.

but i think the problem is it's a story which you've seen done so many times before so it's really hard to watch it again oh okay they're leaving that bit out okay or they're doing that bit or that bit's not and also they've been hiding what nostrati looks like and yes and when you see it it's like oh okay that's interesting yeah yeah and then i'm like it's not scary to me what does he look like

Nosferatu. Okay, spoilers. He looks like what... We'll just take it out, but what does he look like? He looks like a Cossack. Basically, he's got a big moustache. He's got a big tache. Yeah. Oh, so he looks like Dracula. He looks like Dracula out of the book. Like lots of his flesh is rotted off on the back of his head and stuff like that. Yeah. Interesting. But I don't know why people go nuts about this... What's the name, Skarsgård? Which one is it? Yes, Bill Skarsgård. Bill Skarsgård. Because he's always so made up, I can't see any performance.

Oh, I could. But at the same time, I think it's very, is that you don't think, oh, there's Bill Skarsgård. I thought he did a very good job of disappearing under all of that. Yeah. Well, they say that he trained with an opera singer to drop his vocal range down. He talks like this is very long. His voice is really, really good. But the, I would say, there's this whole thing about, does she cause it? Yes. And about possession. Summon him. Yeah. And I'm like, I was like,

I'm getting lost here. I don't know what's happening. Am I being thick? Have they not told me enough about this? No, no. Yeah, I don't know what... There is something about that in the colour Nosferatu that Werner Herzog did. But I think, also, is it not Renfield that kind of summons him? There was a scene of that kind of thing, yeah. But it's always implied that because she was lonely and she was... As a child.

what would have been seen in past times as a priestess or some kind of psychic person. She summoned him. So she brought him to it anyway. Always, the more you see a Dracula, the less scary he is. So don't show me so much. I'd also say we're 47-year-old men. I wouldn't say, oh, I'm scared. I just think, no, that looks cool. But some films, but still horror films do, there are horror films I've watched through my fingers at this age. Fair enough. Okay. Yeah, but yeah, it was really good.

There you go. But I would say it's my least favourite of his films. Oh, really? But they're all up there. See it in a cinema. By the time this podcast comes out, you'll be out in the cinema. The Witch, The Lighthouse, The Northman, and Nosferatu. The Northman's fucking amazing. It's so great. My something horrific this week is not horrific. It's called Long Legs. Don't watch it. It's a boring pile of shit. It's basically...

Silence of the Lambs mixed with X-Files starring Anton Deck in makeup. It's just crap. I thought the Nicolas Cage was meant to be a woman. I would say that it wasn't what I thought it was going to be. And I would say it was pretty much the same as he did in another film, which I think was called September or October. This is the son of Tony Perkins. Anthony Perkins. Yeah. So it's like, I just think he's playing on.

the fact that he's the son of Tony Burkitt, rather than coming up with anything original. I did like Long Eggs, but I would say that he did another film before this. It's got two different names. The one I watched, I think it was called September or October. That did it much better.

Yeah, dreadful. Absolutely dreadful. So there we are. I was really ill when I watched it, and I'm also reading. I was reading a book about BTK and how they caught him. So it might have upped it a little bit because I was in a bit of a series. It was February, Ross. February, yeah, I got the wrong one. February. Totally the wrong one. So memorable. Yeah. Yeah, we were both just really disappointed by it. Within 20 minutes, we were like, well, within the first few minutes, Hell's like, why have they shown him right at the start?

He just looks terrible. The makeup is so bad. But if you want to watch a film about a serial killer, I really recommend a film called Red Rooms. It's a French-language Canadian film about serial killer groupies, and it's really good. It's very, very, very slow. And if I want to recommend one, it's 10 Rillington Place starring Richard Attenborough, which is brilliant. I want to put that on our list to watch. James, have you got one?

No, what about serial killers? Yeah, Zodiac. Zodiac is the best. There we are on that bombshell. Okay, so next time. What's next time, please? So I've got a choice for you. Oh, really? I have a choice. Okay, so originally we were going to do an episode of the Dead or Night TV series. Right. Called The Exorcism, which is a Clyde Swift.

because we love a bit of Clyde Swift. Which I think I've got on DVD, yeah. Or, and this is what, I was talking about this on WhatsApp, and it really confused you, John, so I've called it the Lindhurst connection. Oh, yeah, what this was, I've no idea. Okay, so, there was discussions about 90s sitcoms, and I said we could do, there's an episode of a Radio 4 horror series called Haunted Tales of the Supernatural.

Yeah. Which they were dramatizations of stories by Rosemary Timperley. Timperley, yeah. She's very good. Timperley. So there's an episode with Nicholas Lindhurst in called The Channel Crossing. And I thought we could pair, and that's only like half an hour long. Yeah, yeah. And I thought we could pair that with an episode of Goodnight Sweetheart. And looking back at Goodnight Sweetheart, there's two episodes which are slightly horror related. One is where...

somehow he brings Jack the Ripper through the time portal. James has got his head in his hands. And there's another episode where he gets struck by lightning when he's going for the time portal and he gets split in half and there's an evil version of Gary Sparrow. So we could do Dead of Night TV show The Exorcism or a Nicholas Lindhurst double bill of him going on a Channel Crossing or either...

bringing Jack the Ripper through a time portal or being stuck by lightning? I think, knowing this podcast, it's got to be Nicholas Lindhurst. Okay, James, are you up for the Lindhurst? Yeah, just because then it'll give me the opportunity to talk about Twin Peaks and how much I love Twin Peaks. But I was going to say, it's got to be the Jack the Ripper episode. Okay, so do you want to do the Jack the Ripper? Yeah, okay, so next time. We can do...

What happens in Twin Peaks, James, with someone being struck by lightning? Oh, my God. If you need to go, John, this is going to take us far too long. Yeah, no, I haven't got that far with Twin Peaks yet. In short, Cooper becomes, there's two different Dale Coopers. There's the bad hymn. Yes. Who escapes from the lodge and wreaks havoc while the good hymn is still stuck inside the lodge. Oh, I see. And Twin Peaks Return is hymn.

getting out and trying to reassemble himself while the bad Cooper is still up to stuff. Maybe we should watch both episodes. Okay, so next time we're doing the Lindhurst connection. Yes. So we will be doing Haunted Tales of the Supernatural, Channel Crossing, is available on YouTube, and two episodes of Goodnight Sweetheart, the Jack the Ripper one, and the evil twin Gary episodes. Yeah. I think they're both in the last season, so they're going to be really weird and fucked up soon. Tremendous, yeah. And I can then also talk about that really weird thing of him singing My Generation with Michael Barrymore. Yeah.

I feel fine for you both now. I think this is going to be a tremendous episode. Okay, next time. All right, guys. Thank you for listening as always. Happy 2025. Love, light, and peace, everyone. Bye-bye. You have been listening to The General Witch Finders. Support the show and continue the conversation at patreon.com forward slash general witch finders. Subscribe and spread the word at generalwitchfinders.com Farewell, and don't have nightmares.

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Thanks. Did you hear that thing about the, um, the Netflix thing that like, there was a right. Okay. Ross says meaning what's happening, but yeah, there was a interview with a writer who'd been involved in a N Netflix projects. And he said that one of the, one of the notes back when they were, as they were making it was you need to have it so that character, that,

Every now and then you have a character explaining what is happening to another one of the characters. And then they said, well, why is that? And they said, oh, that's because so many people aren't actually looking at the screen. Like they will have this on in the background while they're doing other things. That's right. It was like, I'm not writing for people to have this on in a background. But hey, you know, that's Netflix for you. We have certain programs on for that reason.

But we wouldn't watch a drama to... Yeah, exactly. I was about to say, you can have a Holmes Under the Hammer in the background. Exactly, James. That's quite literally... We've got Villages by the Sea, Holmes Under the Hammer, or Antiques Road Trip. There you go. They're always in Dorset. They're always in Dorchester or somewhere, like poking around. Well, Taliesin will be playing a game with a TV programme in another screen in the bottom corner all the time. Roman will be doing that, but also have another game, which she's playing over the top of it, and she'll be doing a homework at the same time. With people...

Elsewhere or... No, just in her bedroom. No, no, no. But is she playing people that are on the internet? No, she'll have her friends on another screen. Oh, my God. So you go in there and there's like four girls all looking. So it's just like, it's more than dual screening. There's at least three or four all the time. It's my heart, isn't it? I remember seeing this come in when I worked with someone in Jumping Jacks and she was a bit like that with her phone stuff. And I was like, you never put your phone down. She's like, oh, yeah.

You know, all my best friends are on the internet. I've never met some of them. And then she married a guy that she hadn't met until they got engaged and got married online, went to live with him. And then it lasted like six months and she came back again. And that's when I realized that that was a thing that was just, you know, we can't complain because we meet here, but obviously we met in a time when you fostered. Yeah, I know what you smell like.

Well, yeah, exactly. I don't smell of anything. You both smell nice. Well, yeah, but in terms of human smells, I never... Hell's always like, you don't smell of anything. There is no smell to you, which is quite weird. Oh, that would be like a sign that you're a ghost, though, wouldn't it? Yes. 100%. Or like a robot. Yeah. I'm Ross in Dorchester in southern England, and this time...

We face the Gorgon. And James, you see they're making a new Star Wars film with Rey. Yeah. It's like, oh God, like, what's it going to be about? Who cares now? It's a Star Wars film.

Like, everyone's dead. All the people we care about are dead. Luke Skywalker's dead. Darth Vader's dead. I just... Who's the new baddie now? Who is he? Is there any rumour, James, who the kind of... Oh, no. Well, it's all very... And, Ross, this may have to go at the end again. Everything... They seem to have been absolutely paralysed by what to do with it next, to be perfectly honest, John. There are a number of things which are either said to be either in development or...

you know, like Sean Levy, who is the man who directs the Deadpool films again, which went, but still he, that's what he's done. He has apparently been given the green light to make a film. Yeah. Um, but then everyone's like, Oh no, that, that's, that, that's not happening. Yeah. Well, Joe Cornish on Adam and Joe's podcast for Christmas was based, he was, they did this life thing at, um, Royal Festival Hall and someone mentioned a Star Wars and he goes, he goes, hands up anyone who isn't developing a Star Wars film at the moment.

Yeah, you see, so it's that sort of thing of they're not quite sure. I think, I know we spoke about it before, but I think they got their, even though, as I will always say, when I stand up for these films, it's like, well, yeah, look at the box office receipts. They all made nigh on a billion quid. Well, yeah, they made loads of money. I don't think they add anything to a narrative. But that's the thing, isn't it? So they are doing, the next thing that will be in the cinema is the Mandalorian movie. But once again, as we were just saying.

and is based on everyone is people are super familiar with that character now and it's like no problem for no problem at all but then after that comes out next year i'm not sure that i think they're still at the moment looking around with like what do we do it's mad because on one hand it's like we've got and or series two which should be absolutely phenomenal

Well, it's interesting you say that, Ross. So, like, Andor Series 2 is coming, but it's been the most expensive thing they've ever done. Yes, I saw that. I don't know if you're... Like, it's more expensive than the films. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But someone at Disney has gone, look, this has been the best quality thing we've made. Fucking chuck the money at it. Make it so it's really... So someone has made that decision somewhere down the line.

And also, as Ross was saying, even though it's not for me, I couldn't get more than 20 minutes into it. The skeleton crew, it's not for me at all. But people are loving it. It's really popular. I couldn't get past the episode of The Acolyte. I think it's all about who you're watching it with and why you're watching it. And I think that's what they're doing with Star Wars, isn't it? They're doing a load of... It's for different audiences. That's right. But then because of that, John, that's then made them go...

So what do we do when it comes to a film? What they call the four quadrant audience. That's got to be massive. What's got to be, and they don't quite know.

I think it's because Solo, isn't it? Solo was such a flop, and I actually enjoyed Solo. It's good. I've never stayed awake. I tried three times. It's great. It's really, really good. I thought it was good fun. It's good, but they brought it out totally. Once again, as we said before, when they tied in these films to these release dates, it must come out then. And it's like, well, literally, you've just had a Star Wars film come out six months ago? Yeah.

People don't want to go and see. It needs to be an event. It needs to be like, well, yeah. It needs to be at least four years between films. Exactly. And that's what I felt like, you know, when we were little and Star Wars films came out, this was absolutely magic to see that in cinema. And now I don't think, I don't think they know how to recreate that magic because you can watch them all at any time now. It's always the diminishing returns, isn't it? You've got to come up with such a spectacle that you go, wow.

Because I haven't seen, I've seen the original Avatar, and I was very like, oh, okay. You know, it was a James Cameron science fiction film. But what I will say is that people love those films. Look how much money those films are made. It's insane. But they are big. I do not get it. No, no, not for any of us. But look at those box office receipts. Somebody does, guys. It's not us. Somebody is.

And you have to say they're big spectacle movies. When they come out, he's like, you are going to see all of this stuff going on on the screen. I only remember the plot of the first Avatar film because it's a rip-off of a Dot 2 story. And Dances with Wolves. And the second one, I've got no memory whatsoever. I haven't even seen that. The only memory I've got is of intense needing a piss.

The worst time ever. It was so painful. That's the only memory I've got on that one. And it doesn't help that it was a water-based film as well, wasn't it? And now it's time for something horrific. But be very quick, because I want to go downstairs. Okay, well, we're both going to see Nosferatu. Yeah, go on then, let's hear it. James loved it.

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