Episode 7: Beyoncé with Angelina Burnett

metal detectors. Tell me about what you love, why you love it, how you got into it, and what makes it awesome. Every episode is presented in three chapters. Chapter one, my guest and I talk about what they're obsessed with. Chapter two is a game I call trade it, where my guest and I turn each other on to one thing that we've discovered. And chapter three closes the show with me talking about music. Then I'm currently geeking out on and why. I believe that curiosity is contagious and

the life is better with a soundtrack. So let's go chapter one. Today's guest is Angelina Burnett. Angelina is a television writer and producer who's written for incredible shows like the Americans, Hannibal, and my favorite, Halt and Catch Fire, which was just wrapping up its final season when we recorded this interview. She also happens to be a good friend of Ruth Bennett, the Friends fanatic with the amazing

laugh that you may remember from our last episode. My producer Whitney and I went to visit Angelina at her home in Venice, California, last August, and we've been looking forward to airing this episode ever since. I think you're about to understand. Why how far away from the beach are seven blocks? Do you walk that seven blocks a lot? Yes? I do as much as I can. Hi, everybody, this is Angelina. Hi um, Angelina. Tell everybody what you do.

I write and produced television. I just finished up on a show called Help and catch Fire, which is airing now. Well I don't know when this is airing, so who knows a police airing, but you can see it on Netflix. And what is that sound of the animal on your knee? That is my Boston terrorist Hank obsessively licking my knee and I will make him stop in a moment because

it's really obnoxious. Okay, So the rules of the podcast are Um, I want you to talk about something that you're totally geeked out on that has nothing to do with your job. That's really easy, right, It's really easy. I know what's coming, but I just wanted to make sure because we set the grounds of the beginning, okay, um, and this will be as long as short as you needed to be. I'm just curious about your passion, Okay. I am deeply and profoundly passionate about Beyonce Gaselle's Knowles Carter.

I recognize that this is a rather Quititian passion in this day and age. Um, but I've been it's been growing slowly and steadily for many years. And Lemonade feels like a real justification for me because I've gotten a lot of a lot of friends, uh smarty, hoity toity songwriter types who think there's so much better than miss Beyonce Gasels. Noals Carter and um Lemony changed a lot of minds, and I feel really vindicated for those people who don't know what we're talking about. Could you shorten

her name? And and wait, you know, if I can just can I take a moment here? You can take this is this is actually your moment. I need to I need to share something with everyone who's listening to this, and I'm hoping they will continue to share it with the people they know and ask them to share it with people they know. Beyonce's nickname is pronounced b. Her fans are the bee Hive. In many many recorded musical performance, members of her family her friends have called her b um.

She uses the B emoji when she posts on Instagram. She did an entire tour in which she came out wrapped in a b costume that opened up and she stepped out of it. There were projections of bees all over the stage. And yet, and yet, Johnny Come Lately fans insist on calling her Bay. That is not her nickname, and it's very disrespectful. Okay, I'm done, and Grant, I feel that it's important interject. I'm the Christians manager and

Angelina's friend. Angelina is a very intelligent, wonderful even I would say, young woman who I've known since college, who leads a completely functional life, but who just really likes you. Don't. I don't need you. I don't need you to convince them of my righteousness. So here's what I want them to know is that I know, because you and I have had this conversation many times, that there was a point at which your fandom of Beyonce went from like

she's good to like she is all encompassing. Yes, she's changed my life. Can you talk about I can. There's actually a few moments I'm gonna walk you through the evolution of my psychotic, obsessive joyful, deeply and profoundly joyful and deeply seems. I've spent an incredible amount of money

on Beyonce, and I don't regret a single penny. I've flowed across the country and sat in front of venues for long periods of time to be front and center for Beyonce, which Carter so when I was in college one of my best friends still to this day, one of my best friends who actually played soccer with Whitney um Uh. She is a brilliant world round tap dancer. She won a MacArthur a few years ago. She has an incredible dance company called Doran's Dance, which I highly recommend.

If you enjoy dance, you check out um And at the time she was dating an Irish step dancer and they lived in this basement apartment in New York City. You know you had to like walk down below the sidewalk, and they had dragged this piece of plywood down into their basement apartments so they could practice. And I was

a big time music snob. I listened to like obscure jazz and you know, like modest, super new modest mouse like Radioheaded BC Boys were was like mainstream as I god, it was a big time snob at like nineteen and um Michelle was trying to convince me that Destiny's Child was like a super great fun band, and I was

a soul about it. So I go down to her basement apartment and she's like, I'm gonna dance for you, and she puts on Bill's bills bills and she with her tap shoes on and her Irish step dancer girlfriend start trading. And something about the rhythmic addition of the tap dancing and the step dancing like unlocked the music for me. So I didn't hear it as like cheesy pop music that wasn't cool anymore. I heard it as like this incredible rhythmic composition, and I was like, Okay,

maybe Destiny's Child is cool. I guess I'll check them out. And so I started getting into Destiny's Child. I wasn't like insane, but I could groo up on it. It's sort of like opened my world to mainstream pop um. And then I don't know circus single Ladies. That video came out and I am a deep dance history nerd um and I'm a huge Bob Fossy fan. Bob Fossey

is like responsible for all modern music videos. Like everything we sort of understand is like visual music mash up pop culture can all be traced back to Bob Fossey. And if you could, of course, beyond Bob Fossey, go to like the Chickland Circuit and the Hoofers and you can get deep into jazz and black culture and again tap dance um. But Bob Fossey was sort of this like choke point culturally that really shifted how music videos

give made. And for those who don't know, and I think maybe a lot do, But for those who don't, the single Ladies video is a reimagining of like an old Fossy trio with his wife gin Veritan, and I knew the piece and so when I saw the single Ladies video I was like, hold, Beyonce is pulling from Fosse and the like in an overt way, not in a like I don't even know what I'm channeling way,

And like this Jude, by the way. Rich Man's Frog, which is another Fossy piece, inspired another Beyonce video called Get Me Bodied, which I found after Single Ladies, when I started going psychotic and doing a deep dive. Um. So Single Ladies was another flashpoint, as it was for many and then this is where everything really changes. This is what I lost my mind. This is when I became a crazy person that spent five minutes ranting about

a nickname. Um I heard. I at this point in my life whatever mid twenties, late twenties, somewhere in there, was like done with stadium shows or big arena shows. Like they sound like they're not in rooms that are intended for sound. Um, your ears are ringing afterwards, there's too many people, it smells like beer. It's awful. I hated stadium shows. I was done. I was never going

to another one. But I hear that Beyonce is doing a five night residency at the Win in Las Vegas, in like a theater and it's like a pared down Vegas review version of her Big Arena Tour. And I was like, you know what, I've just gotten my first uh script, So like I had a nice chunk of change. I've always, my whole life been incredibly financially irresponsible. So rather than putting it in savings, I was like, you know what, I will blow the incredible amount of money

that it's going to require. Because, by the way, you can't just buy a ticket to see Beyonce at the Wind. You have to stay at the Wind to be eligible to buy a ticket, and those are not those are not the cheapest rooms in Vegas. And I don't want to go alone. And like, none of my friends at this point who like Beyonce have the kind of money to do something like this. So I called my friend Matt Murphy, who former a b T answer now of arts and dance photographer for the New York Times and Broadway.

He did the Hamilton's the photo that's on the Hamilton post Yeah, the guy pointing out yeah on the Star that's one of Maths photos. Um. He's amazing, and he and I he's a huge Fossy fan and a dance nerd like I am and we had like geeked out over the single Innies video. So I was like, listen, if you can pay a fear plane ticket, I got everything else, and I'm gonna need you to come out to Vegas and we're gonna see Beyond Stagels and all his card are live for the first time. And we

had a great day. We chilled in the pool with the drinks. Whitney we do this. This is Whitney's favorite thing to do. It's you know, the Vegas chill. And we started talking. We're like, you know, I'm a little worried. I'm a little worried that this is going to break the spell that like this sort of fun few months we've had geeking out about Beyonce. We're gonna go see her on a stage in a small theater without the bells and whistles, and we're just gonna be like, oh, well,

that was fun, well lasted. Who was going to disappoint you? We were anticipating disappointment because how could she live up to this like in this like geek geek Fest had over the single latest video, it was all hype, no way. So now a little bit more context at this point, the way I listened to Beyonce albums, is like three songs off of everyone. I skipped the majority of them. I find many of them insipid. There's a song called Hello, which is basically the line from Jerry maguire over and

over again, you had me at Hello. It's ridiculous, I was. I laughed. I don't even actually think I'd ever listen to the entire song because it was so silly. I was like, skip next. So I'm in the front row of the balcony of this theater, which is not that big. It's a nice intimate setting for someone like fiance, and I'm in my freaking dress, and I got my heels on and my nails done, and Matt's in a cute outfit. And the lights come down and the opening strains of

Hello start, and something happens in my heart. I'm like, what's happening? I don't like this song? Why do I

feel this way? And then I realized she's not coming out on stage, is coming from the back of the house, and she's walking down the center and she's shaking hands with her fans one man Genuflex and she laughs like, oh my wonderful subjects all the while belting this song Hello you had Me at Hello, And it's also like, you know, a million mile an hour lyrical dance in between the cheesy refrain if you had Me at Hello, and I start weeping. It was the craziest I have

no idea where it came from. Literally like laughing, crying. I turned to Matt, I pointed at my face and I say, what is happening? Like it was it was physiological, something rearranged in my chemical makeup, and I was a different I was a different person. I cried through that whole show. I cry at every Beyonce show. I have not missed a tour since I've seen most tours two

or three times. I flew across the country when she played Roseland, desperate for that intimate not Roseland wasn't Roseland, Yes, desperate for that intimate experience again. And I managed to be in the front row of this thing. That's why I sat in line all day to be in the front and was like nearly attacked by a teenage gay man smacked in the back of my head with its camera. It was not good vibes at all, but she was right there. I could have spent on her, not that

I would ever spent on Fyance. So really, what it is is there something about her as a live performer that like, until you've seen it, And this is why I felt vindicated by Lemonade. When you see her live, you're like very something in there that has not come out yet. She has been like twerking herself into this like pop mold of what you're supposed to be, to be a huge, famous pop singer, and there's something else inside of her that is like screaming to come out.

And so that's there was something. There was this shift that happened between Beyonce and Lemonade, where she went from being the most studied performer I've ever seen, Like a lot of times he's like, oh, that's so effortless until Lemonade. Beyonce was not effortless. She was working her eyes off and you saw it every second everything been. She watches every show after it's done, she watches the whole thing, does notes and sends them to the dancers and the

musicians for the next morning. She watches every show she does and studies it. And you could tell and then something happened. Maybe it's having a kid maybe it's having a bedrillion dollars. I have no idea where she was, just like you know what, I don't give off anymore. And this last tour was the messiest, most vicious, most energetic, give no thing I've ever seen from her. And I feel so incredibly proud to have been there early on and to have committed, knowing what she was capable of

and having been proven right. But this is why I get like a little aggro that there's not for someone as popular as she is and as successful as she is, and as you know, ubiquitous who she is, that there isn't more like actual critical thought about her entire body of work. Because Lemonade is absolutely in keeping with it. She has been singing about this exact her whole career, and a lot of people throw, oh, she doesn't write

her song. She absolutely writes her songs. There's no way she's collaborating with Farrell and he's writing lyrics about what happens when a perm has been left in too long, like Beyonce is all lyrically all over her horse. She collaborates Christian as you know, collaboration is a huge part of songwriting. So this these themes um women done wrong by their men um, commitment to their men, commitment to making it, or a girlfriend standing by each other's sisterhood

are the themes of all of her work. And what's so great about Lemonade, It's like, you know, the wonderful Sam Shepherd just passed away, and he's probably my favorite player. Right He wrote the same play over and over again for his entire career, and there's a couple of ones that pop up where you're like, that is like the distillation of all the themes he's been working with through his entire career. And that's what was so exciting about

Lemonade was she's like she is, she has tapped the vein. Now, she's been drilling down for twenty years and she's tapped the vein. And what happened when she tapped the vein was on one level, it was about Jay's Z. On another level, it was about any woman who's been done wrong and has been supported by her girlfriends. On another another level, it's about black people's relationship with America. On another level, it's about women's relationship with America. Like it

works thematically on multiple levels. And to have that album come out in the context of what just happened with this last election as a woman in this country, being able to tap into those emotions because I've never been done wrong in that way. I can't relate to having been like cheated on and disrespected repeatedly. Um, but I can relate to feeling, like, you know, finding my own power in a situation that fights to make me powerless.

And the fact that she was able to take what used to be like cute little pop confections, dealing with like my man done done me wrong. No no, no, no no, and turn it into something that like expands and contracts depending on who you are and where you're sitting in the culture is like a beautiful accomplishment. And so when you look at it in the context of her whole body of work, it's about jeez, it's about every guy she ever dated, it's about her dad, it's

about any guy that over one of her friends. It's about everyone. So you can read it however you want. And I think I could be wrong. I don't know the woman. Someday I hope to, but I don't necessarily think she gives us what you think it's about, because she knows what it means for her and you get to make it whatever you want to make it for you and seen this is awesome. UM, I'm very excited about this. I'm glad because I didn't know. I had

no idea, and you know, I'm very curious. So I have My daughter is twelve, and if I was to start her on a Beyonce song and give her like the first three, what would the first three be? Well, the twelve year old throws me. Well then and again, you know, if we're gonna raise strong women, and this is our strong woman avatar and it is a bumblebee, which is an emoji. How do I say, come on, look, I need you to take one step. And here's what

I wanted and it came from a professional. Um. Let's see, I would say, um, bills bills, bills, bills, bills, um, which is Destiny's Child era UM XO from Beyonce. Just flipping through my role of Deck, I would say, you know what, she's twelve. Let's go for independent Women Part two, the title song from Charlie's Angels. It's very straightforward. Own your be your own woman, take care of yourself. It's a good message. It's very accessible. Those would be my threat. Okay,

we'll totally do that. Well, thank you for being You're so welcome. This was. I really can't tell you what a treat it was for somebody to ask asked me to do this rather than like suffer through me doing it while I'm like drunk or stone at a bar. So thank you for this incredible opportunity. And I hope that people like didn't turn off two minutes in when I was ranting about a nickname. Chapter two is coming up in just a minute, but first a word from

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Just go to Zola. That's z o l a dot com slash Nashville pod Chapter two. In every episode of Geeking Out, I see if I can trade one thing I've discovered with one thing that my guest has discovered, A friendly exchange. I call it trade you, all right, So this section of the podcast is called trade you I give, I turn you onto one thing that I'm into at the moment, and you turn me onto one thing that you're into at the moment. And it could be anything like a TV show that you like, or

or a product or any could be anything. I got it, you know, like I'll go first to give you an idea. Um, you have two and I have recently become kind of a half dog owner. Um, and I have discovered this crazy thing that apparently just because I'm like the least suburbans person, I didn't know these things existed. But the bark box right where you get the thing? And um,

it comes in the mail. And I guess you can do this for clothes and things for ladies, or you do it for men, or you can do it for food. There's all sorts of ways that you can never leave your house again. Right this particular thing. Do you get a bark box? Okay, you should try this because I have the most allergic dog in the world. Well I think you can tell them that, but I'm not sure. But so I have an anxious half dog and m and I got this spark box thing, and they have

little themes they come with. I think the most reason was like space, So there was like a space squirrel and a space thing and apparently which I didn't know until recently because when you pointed it out, if your dog tears it up, which dog would tear that, you can send it back and they'll send you up in it. Right. That's great. I'm turning you on to love your dogs. They're such good dogs, they would love that. Okay, guys, how about I get your back box? Um, at least

like whatever, whatever, hankle eat everything. Um, So I have viewed? Do you know? And I hope you don't know, because then I will have failed. Um. The television program The Leftovers, No, I've seen it on the menu. I don't. I don't know anything about it. Is that the one that also was a book? Yes? Tell me it? Just the finale just stared like two months ago. It was only three seasons. I watched the pilot when it premiered and was like, this is the saddest thing I've ever seen. I cannot

watch this. And then post election, I had a Whitney knows this but because she turned me onto it, but I went through a really long phase where I couldn't watch any television at any narrative television at all. Scripted television.

I watched I'm not even kidding, almost every single season of Survivor because there was just something about the mindlessness of it and the like hope of people going back to the beginning and like starting over and being able to take care of themselves, like if we get wiped out, we can start fire and like, you know, kill a pig. If about the former Survivor contest, Yes, that's right, they're they're going to build camp. Je Props would be the

prime minister. So for some reason, and I can't really say how it happened, the way I transitioned back into watching scripted television, which really, I actually know plenty of TV writers who don't watch television. I think that's crazy, Like it's your form. I think you should study it

and understand it and see what else is out there. So, UM, I transitioned back in by watching The Leftovers, and it actually it feels like it was ahead of its time, Like it's far more Um speaks to this cultural and societal moment than The Handmaiden's Tale does. Frankly, Um, it is a stunning, stunning, stunning work of storytelling, and I was actually angry at myself for not watching it when it came out so I could like champion it. It really is truly one of my favorite shows ever made.

I'd put it up there with The Wire and Dead, which which are my two favorite shows. Um, it is so weird. It is so confident. It is so deeply, deeply, deeply heart centered and and like emotional and real and honest, and you never know where it's going to go. Never I wish every episode I was like, I was sure it was going one way, and it would dog leg and go another and it always came out of character and it always felt real. I wept it was It was just truly one of the most beautiful pieces of

television I've ever seen. That's it. It is also the saddest piece of television I've ever seen. So I want to recommend it because I just I just feel like I'm a fuller person for having experienced it. But it was deeply sad. Yeah, like, maybe watch a couple and then watch like, I don't know, a few thirty rocks Like, yeah, I get yourself back. So that's my I'm right, thank you for being here. Still fantastic. I love where you live. Awesome. It's like California. But it's it's got a buffer of

like trees, keeps the California in and out. Yes, that's right, all right, thank you. This is fun five. Chapter three me geeking out on music the rhythm of the words. Commercial songs have many important pieces that contribute to their popularity. A melody, a rhythm, a lyric that all combined to make some sort of elixir, a potion that our brains just can't resist. People for years have been trying to

make a science out of the mystery of hits. Their websites that will analyze your uploaded song and give it a hit score between one and ten. Apparently, black Eyed Peas, I've got a feeling scores at like eight point five. There's a hit potential equation developed by the University of Bristol. Even today, Sony has some sort of artificial intelligence algorithm that they claim can actually write hit based on the

existing structure of years and years of hit songs. But I would like to humbly offer one underrated characteristic of songs that stick in your ear. I propose that it's not just the melody or the lyric, or the key or the beats per minute that drive the force of a catchy hit, but rather the hidden superpower of the song, the rhythm of the words and the way they roll out of the singer's mouth. Once you recognize that, you

start to hear it everywhere. They're easily identifiable songs that you might have messed up the lyric too, but you can sing the syllables no matter what, like this or this. We sometimes curse these songs because they stay in our heads all day. They're hard to shake. I believe they're hard to shake, maybe because the rhythm of the words have some sort of relationship to your everyday work. The way we walk, the way our hearts beat, even the way we talk might key off a rhythm that lines

up exactly with the song that you've heard. So tried this one on for size. Robin Hood and Little John walking through the forest laughing back and forth and what the other next to say? Reminiscennesce and that and havn't such a good time lolly lollygully one to day. You see, it's not just what he's saying, it's how he's saying it that makes it stick in your head, kind of like this band. I don't want to see that baby too. Some people figured out the real value of the rhythm

of the word and how to play with it. These guys, we're part of a movement that changed everything stop and then others even innovated it. How do the rhythm of the words affect you? But when it comes down to it, it's the way the words roll off of the singer's mouth that make all the difference. So check this out. This is Michael Jackson vocal only beat it. Listen to how much of the song is in how he sings it, not just what he's singing or even just the melody,

but the way the rhythm of the words work. We all know this song, but this is a fun way to hear it. This is what it sounded like to hear only the vocal and what the rhythm of the words sound like. Don't want to say no blood, don't be a much a man. You wanna be tough, better do what you can't so feed it, but you wanna be bad? Just feeding beat beat feed, So when ho fucking dog is shot, it doesn't matter who's spunked up, right,

just feeding. So next time you listen to your favorite song or you're just flipping through the channels and the radio. Notice the rhythm of the words, how they bounce when they stop, how good they feel. If you sing in the shower, you'll find that you imagine the whole band in your head as you sing along. Listen to the rhythm and dance along with it. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Geeking Out and we are already hard at work on the next one. Are you obsessed with

something amazing? I want to tell us about it? Right to us at Geeking Out with KB at gmail dot com and you might be a guest on an upcoming episode. Come find out more about me and this podcast at Christian Bush dot com, Christian with a K people follow me at Christian Bush on Twitter, Christian Bush on Instagram, Christian Bush on Facebook, and Christian M. Bush on Snapchat.

Thanks to Bobby Bones for the opportunity to make this podcast, Brianna Bush for making the soundtrack and assembling the pieces, Tom Tapley for audio wizardry, and Whitney Pastor for being a great producer and making this whole thing possible. This is Christian Bush Geeking Out. Thank you for listening.