00:00:03:24 - 00:00:23:17
Dan Hall
Hello and welcome to In the Key of Q, the podcast that celebrates great musicians and their music. Over the next 30 or 40 minutes, I'll be chatting with a guest about their songs and their lives, and hopefully through music, make us all feel a little bit more connected to each other.
00:00:23:19 - 00:00:46:06
Dan Hall
All right then buckle up, buttercups. This week's guest hails from the land of sunshine and questionable wildlife. This queer Aussie pop smith and former sub bottom has traded kangaroos for the UK, armed with noughties nostalgia and colorful dating escapades. If you're off to pop, that'll give you all the feels and enamel burn on the side of your nose.
00:00:46:09 - 00:00:50:13
Dan Hall
You've come to the right place. Ten welcome back to In the Key of Q.
00:00:50:15 - 00:01:33:12
TIN
I say way too much of my press release. It's. And I love that you called it Amber. What a flashback for my mellow dad.
00:01:33:14 - 00:01:38:21
Dan Hall
So then, since I've last seen you, you've opened for bright light. Bright lights. Is that true?
00:01:39:02 - 00:01:40:21
TIN
Yes, yes I did.
00:01:40:23 - 00:01:43:14
Dan Hall
So how did that come about?
00:01:43:16 - 00:02:04:14
TIN
My partner, and producer Lost Child is friends with, with the guy who runs a collective called EQ music. And he'd booked me several times before. And he's friends with rod. And he asked me if I wanted to open for, part of his tour.
00:02:04:16 - 00:02:11:05
Dan Hall
Now, when we recorded last year, you had just released sex, Cologne and Cigarets, your EP. How did that go?
00:02:11:07 - 00:02:42:04
TIN
Really? Well. Particularly the single Sex Cologne and Cigarets. And I think the song that I was promoting at the time of our speaking was a song called weasel. And after I'd release it, I. Because the song is a little bit unhinged. I wasn't expecting much, but it turned out to be the song that people love most. On that EP.
00:02:42:06 - 00:03:11:19
TIN
And so I actually still perform it to this day. And because it, has this like for those who don't know, the song, it has this like nursery rhyme chorus that my friend who's a girl sang it.
00:03:11:21 - 00:03:22:19
TIN
I have a sock puppet when I perform it. And so I have the sock puppet doing, chorus and the backing vocals and, Yeah, people just love the sock puppets.
00:03:22:21 - 00:03:43:17
Dan Hall
I imagine when you're recording something like an EP, there are songs which you think the public will like. Is it is it kind of strange putting those tracks out, then into the ether and suddenly finding what you thought was the dark B-side that only you connected with? Is sort of adored by by a much larger group of people than maybe some of the other songs.
00:03:43:23 - 00:04:43:17
TIN
Yeah, yeah, very much so. And I remember I lived with this, I lived with this like straight comedian, you know, many moons ago. And he said to me, you don't get to choose your number ones. And I was like, screw you. Like, I know what I'm talking, I know what I'm doing or whatever. And, you know, he was right, resentfully.
00:04:43:19 - 00:05:09:01
TIN
On my album that I released a year ago. There's this one song, the most vulnerable song that I've ever, ever, ever released, ever written, even. And I was kind of like, oh, like, I don't know if people will, like, really. Really enjoy this as much as I do because it's so cathartic. But, yeah, the one that ended up being really personal.
00:05:09:03 - 00:05:21:13
TIN
People really love to. So. So yeah, it is, and it's very much a curveball. And I have to remind myself that part of music is a lot of just throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.
00:05:21:15 - 00:05:23:14
Dan Hall
And what was that track?
00:05:23:16 - 00:06:10:03
TIN
The track is called Dear Matthew.
00:06:10:05 - 00:06:14:21
Dan Hall
So can you tell us a bit about why that was such a personal song for you.
00:06:14:23 - 00:06:58:03
TIN
Several years ago, 2019. New Year's Eve, I performed at a festival in New South Wales, which is a state in Australia. And I met this guy named Matthew who was like. And the Don is by conventional standards. So what I mean is he's tall, the thick hair, bright blue eyes, muscular, handsome, you know, like he was scouted to be, on the cover of DNA magazine, you know, which is, which is notorious for, like, really idolizing white muscle.
00:06:58:05 - 00:07:39:21
TIN
And, I met him, and that was that. But months later, the pandemic would hit, and I started finding myself in, very reflective and vulnerable moments during the pandemic. But I also found that whenever I would come across this guy's Instagram, I would be constantly reminded of all the privilege that he must get to experience in his life, that I feel and know that I would never, ever, even could never even dream of, you know, being a person of color and just not being all the things that he is.
00:07:39:23 - 00:08:15:09
TIN
And I would spiral and get stuck in my head thinking about the and getting angry about, not having had a say in the cards that I was dealt. That is my life's. And so I started writing this song called Dear Matthew, which is an open letter style of lyricism. Talking about my experience of being a person of color in the gay community and.
00:08:15:11 - 00:08:42:04
TIN
I hadn't really faced these demons until I had lived in London, like, and even kind of lived my best life here, and then went back to Australia, to a country that is so deeply and systemically racist that I really felt the, the difference in privilege.
00:08:42:06 - 00:10:05:09
TIN
And it was hard, you know, like I and it was around this time during the pandemic where I would, delve into the world of, drugs and, I would be coming down and on my come downs, you know, it would just take, one story of his, and I would just have a meltdown. Because all I could see when I would look in the mirror was the obstacles that I have to face from a life that I never got to have a say in.
00:10:05:11 - 00:10:30:06
Dan Hall
So for those of us listening to and from a position of white privilege such as myself, can you just give a bit of an idea of what those battles are to get, you know, to give us an idea of of our journey? Because we because people I meet don't know, like because because our life is inherently privileged, gives us, the ability to not face those things or think about them.
00:10:30:06 - 00:10:33:03
Dan Hall
So they're quite hard to even conceive.
00:10:33:03 - 00:10:57:05
TIN
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think what I want to, preface with is that, you know, like, this is still an ongoing journey for me to learn to communicate in a way that is not me projecting my anger and resentment on other people, because I'm very clear in the same vein, it's not like you had to say I'm being white, right?
00:10:57:07 - 00:11:32:14
TIN
So, so I was talking to my friend about it recently, and he's, Jamaican and he's on my latest single as well, actually, Jenny Fenton. And he put it so, succinctly, was that, people of color have to work so much harder than people who have a lot of, you know, white or pretty privilege to produce the same result.
00:11:32:16 - 00:12:07:15
TIN
And I could be working my butt off. And then I, you know, I very often just see all these hot white guys just get magically lifted up into positions of either power or opportunities purely from that world of privilege. And, you know, like I'm aware, I'm clear about my work and I'm clear about, my talent. And sometimes I'll look at people on stage and I'm like, I applied for the same show.
00:12:07:17 - 00:12:32:22
TIN
How did that end up on there? And I did it. And in, in terms of like being in the gay community, an example would be like being on grinder, right? Like, you know, my friends say my, my friends are like, you know, like you have really nice pictures on grime that, like, why doesn't anyone talk to you?
00:12:32:22 - 00:12:57:24
TIN
And regardless of if my profile says that I'm Australian born, what, that like they don't see what my friends see. They don't know what my friends know. And so I, you know, my friends will be like inundated with messages and I'll struggled to get like three four replies. I can walk into a club and I could, you know, be like the hottest guy there.
00:12:58:01 - 00:13:54:16
TIN
But because I'm a person of color, I'm like, automatically not a consideration for a percentage of the room.
00:13:54:18 - 00:14:16:16
TIN
One of the things that I found most about white privilege is. I know this is a really toxic way to put it, but it's the simplest way to put it. But, like, Asian ten will be seen on par as a white six. Does that make sense?
00:14:16:18 - 00:14:25:12
Dan Hall
Yeah. Do you think that's amongst amongst white people or do you think actually there's an element of that within the Asian community as well?
00:14:25:14 - 00:14:53:01
TIN
Yeah, I think, I think it's like very largely ingrained in the whole community itself. So I could have the most like incredible. But they build up pristine body with like 5% body fat. But I'll still be seen on par or less than a white person whose body may not be great or even average, purely because I'm a person of color.
00:14:53:03 - 00:15:23:22
TIN
I think the last thing that, I want to share about this is, like having grown up in Australia, as I said before, like rather embedded in, racism, I grew up accepting a rather poor level of self-worth and a rather poor level of treatment from people thinking that that's all I deserved, thinking that that's what my life is going to be like.
00:15:23:24 - 00:15:34:15
TIN
I used to be really desperate. I used to be like, as soon as I got someone, I was trained to think, well, this is probably the best you ever going to get it.
00:15:34:17 - 00:15:44:21
Dan Hall
It might not always be with the best people, because I remember in the previous episode we were talking about your frustration that, you know, you think someone wants you and then you realize, oh, they're just fetishizing a race.
00:15:44:21 - 00:16:53:14
TIN
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. And, you know, like, I'm so grateful that I chose to move to London because. Yeah, it wasn't until I moved here where, I started getting, like, so much attention. And I'm not intending to say this to be like, oh, my God, I'm so hard or I'm so amazing. But more so because London is such a diverse and multicultural and open minded city, it really highlighted the foundational issues in society in Australia.
00:16:53:16 - 00:17:01:23
Dan Hall
So can you tell me a bit about your new single that we're here to promote? Trust Your Touch. I mean, it's it's another ten title. Trust you?
00:17:02:00 - 00:17:32:04
TIN
Yeah. And so trust your touch. I actually wrote about, ten years ago, ten, 12 years ago. And it's about. So at the time, how much I'm getting, was very much a bottom, and I was I loved twinks at the time. My type is twinks, because I grew up in racist Australia where, you know, all I knew was to worship white people.
00:17:32:06 - 00:18:09:04
TIN
And, I was obsessed with Troye Sivan and Olly Alexander. And so I wrote trust Your Touch, envisioning it being about having a threesome with Troye and Olly and I wanted it to be a bit more meta. And so having a song about a threesome with three artists, seemed, like, like a very appropriate. And so, years would pass.
00:18:09:06 - 00:19:01:14
TIN
And I'm working on new music with Joe, with Lost Child. And I was like, but there's a song I wrote ages ago. I think there's something in it.
00:19:01:16 - 00:19:31:15
TIN
I started thinking about who else I wanted on the track. And around this time, lost child wanted to, go back into being his own artist rather than just a producer. So he asked if he could be on the track, and, of course I said yes. And I had been wanting to work with a friend of mine who I met, named Janis, and he's this incredible, incredible, singer.
00:19:31:17 - 00:19:55:04
TIN
And so I, Yeah, having two people who I really love being on this track, I was like, let me work my magic for you so that you can be part of, you know, the my music videos that you've watched for so long now. And, I busted my ass to put together, like, one of the toughest music videos I've ever put together.
00:19:55:06 - 00:19:57:04
Dan Hall
What was so tough about it?
00:19:57:06 - 00:20:38:10
TIN
I came up with the idea of each of us, exploring different, gay fetishes, kinks, themes, whatever you want to call it. And so, for me, I decided, I chose to do, cruising. Which I personally enjoy as well. But then also we were shooting in November and, it was what, like it was like three degrees or something like that where me and all my friends had to shoot the cruising scene in a park.
00:20:38:16 - 00:20:43:00
Dan Hall
Oh, my God, I'm no Venice in November.
00:20:43:02 - 00:21:08:20
TIN
And so I have all of my dude beautiful, adoring, adorable, generous, kind, giving friends who are almost naked in the middle of a park in November of, And it was muddy as hell. And, you know, I, I'm, I'm disturbed because I'm used to enduring these conditions for my art, but they weren't, and yeah, we got that shot.
00:21:08:20 - 00:21:10:14
TIN
And then.
00:21:10:16 - 00:21:12:01
Dan Hall
Which park was it?
00:21:12:03 - 00:21:14:01
TIN
That was Burgess Park.
00:21:14:07 - 00:21:19:12
Dan Hall
Oh, not. I like Burgess Park. Burgess Park parkrun is my it's my favorite park.
00:21:19:14 - 00:21:31:05
TIN
Because it's a real cruising spot right there. Is it. Yeah. That's and we let that on that I that we. Yeah. So while we're shooting we have people who would try the curb is like which park.
00:21:31:05 - 00:21:32:02
Dan Hall
That's the cruising.
00:21:32:02 - 00:21:35:14
TIN
Area. I don't know, it's like a fairy tale. Oh.
00:21:35:16 - 00:21:40:03
Dan Hall
Oh I don't know. Oh no, I could, couldn't afford you.
00:21:40:03 - 00:22:06:11
TIN
The location can.
00:22:06:13 - 00:22:09:12
Dan Hall
If you seen Brendan McLean's House of air video.
00:22:09:14 - 00:22:10:22
TIN
House of air. No, I have not.
00:22:10:22 - 00:22:33:09
Dan Hall
I'll send you a link to. That is fantastic. It. It sort of deals with with the hankie codes and goes through. All of them are amazing. And it's a really again, it's just a really sex positive video, but it's done with a lovely sense of humor. That sense of, you know, sex is funny as well as being sexy and like you, he has that ability to be like, for fuck's sake, sex is enjoyable.
00:22:33:11 - 00:22:33:24
TIN
Yeah, let's.
00:22:33:24 - 00:22:35:24
Dan Hall
Enjoy it and let's enjoy talking about.
00:22:35:24 - 00:22:58:20
TIN
It. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Like it, like like going back to my other video about Faygo where people are like, wow, this is really intense. I'm like, what? It's meant to be silly. Like, and you can do that. Like, does anyone not realize how ridiculous it is that our communities of gay men who party on Friday night, they all go to someone's house, they all do drugs and have sex at that house for like another two days without sleep.
00:22:58:20 - 00:23:22:11
TIN
And then they go work on Monday as if nothing of it happened.
00:23:22:13 - 00:23:33:00
Dan Hall
Now, you said in our last recording that you thought of yourself more as a performer than a recording artist. Yeah. Does that still stand?
00:23:33:02 - 00:24:01:11
TIN
You know, It I since because at the time I didn't record my EP and I was just performing so much and, when I was putting my album together, like, you know, like full for, for the most part, that at least for me, an EP has a lot less forethought in terms of the story that an EP can be.
00:24:01:13 - 00:24:45:01
TIN
And I wanted my album to really be a journey, and I had to learn the world of being, recording all this, you know, not not so much by choice, but I was like, I can't let down. I can't let myself down by not learning this world right now. And look like I still absolutely love performing and, you know, and in my, I understand people who watch me perform really enjoy themselves, and are entertained.
00:24:45:03 - 00:24:57:16
TIN
It's, I think, like, inherently, you know, I, I'm still much stronger as a performing artist, but I've definitely had to force myself to grow as a recording artist.
00:24:57:18 - 00:25:02:11
Dan Hall
Do you feel that your music style has changed since we last spoke?
00:25:02:13 - 00:25:44:10
TIN
Yeah. Yeah, and it definitely reflects, the phases of my life. It was a couple years after, I released that EP where I entered this whole world that is partying, you know? Yeah, more specifically, the world of circuit parties. But what I didn't yeah. What I never predicted was that entering this world of be, you know, of circuit parties and what some might call me being a circuit gay, God forbid, would have me face some of my wildest demons.
00:25:44:12 - 00:26:07:00
TIN
I would have me face all of my insecurities about being a person of color, would have me face all of my issues around my body dysmorphia, you know? And those conversations have definitely, come through in my writing. In my in my music, I know for myself, like, partying was a big, big release.
00:26:07:02 - 00:26:09:13
Dan Hall
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:26:09:15 - 00:26:39:03
TIN
But especially the world of chill outs and cam sex. There's nothing more sobering than I walk into a room and I'm the only person of color in the whole room. Out of 20 guys knowing that, yeah, there's a real. I'm not saying it'll always happen, but knowing that there's a very real chance that 80% of them won't even realize that I'm there.
00:26:39:05 - 00:27:29:02
TIN
I could be jumping here and doing star jumps right in front of them, and they wouldn't even see me. And no one could have ever prepared me for having to face my my own issues around race after having entered the party world in that way.
00:27:29:04 - 00:27:37:02
Dan Hall
Now then, when we last spoke, you spoke about a disastrous time when you were having a sober month and you decided to go into a darkroom.
00:27:37:04 - 00:27:39:01
TIN
Oh, yes. Oh my God.
00:27:39:04 - 00:27:49:00
Dan Hall
Only to find yourself on such a different level from everybody else. Yes, yes. Have you had any other fantastic darkroom experiences since that?
00:27:49:02 - 00:28:21:05
TIN
Let me have. Okay. I'm sure I have. That was the beginning of me experiencing dark rooms. And then I think I tried them a few more times just to make sure I just to make sure. And I think, like, you know, some time ago I was like, oh, actually, I don't really think they're for me. However, there was this a one time and it's not so much about me, but there was this one time I was having drinks with my friends, and then we went to, fire.
00:28:21:07 - 00:28:41:15
Dan Hall
I've never been to fire, you know, I've only ever walked past that fire, by the way, for people listening as a as a nightclub in Vauxhall under the railway arches. And it's one of those places where when you walk, when you go running in the morning, you run past people outside having a cigaret, looking like someone shot them out.
00:28:41:17 - 00:29:03:08
TIN
And so, my friend and I went to fire with me, knowing that I had work at 630 the next morning and I am just lost in the room for hours. And my friend messages me and he's like, oh, I, I really, really hot guy in the dark and, you should come out.
00:29:03:08 - 00:29:04:15
Dan Hall
And how would he know?
00:29:04:21 - 00:29:12:01
TIN
I after that, I think he just what he made out from the dim light in the dark room. And so then.
00:29:12:03 - 00:29:16:10
Dan Hall
He puts the light, he puts the torch on his phone just to make sure.
00:29:16:14 - 00:29:41:23
TIN
Let me just check. Let me just check and, Yeah. Then I crawl out of there. I guess I would I'd be about and, and, and the first thing he says is like, did you have work soon? And I had work for like 20 minutes. Oh, my God, he was with this, like, really tall, beautiful man.
00:29:42:00 - 00:29:46:04
TIN
And that was like, two years ago. And they're still together.
00:29:46:06 - 00:29:53:10
Dan Hall
So suddenly they won't be on our podcast that you and I do, with our tales of say.
00:29:53:12 - 00:30:50:21
TIN
Exactly.
00:30:50:23 - 00:30:56:10
Dan Hall
I remember my what was suddenly one of my first experiences in the dark. Where my child on some of his glasses. So that.
00:30:56:12 - 00:31:01:07
TIN
Fits. Oh, shit. I mean, why would you have glasses off anyway?
00:31:01:12 - 00:31:29:14
Dan Hall
Knows. I don't know how they go on the floor.
00:31:29:16 - 00:31:35:20
Dan Hall
Tell us what you've got coming up over the next few weeks and months. What have we got to look forward to, besides some old, shirtless videos of you?
00:31:35:22 - 00:31:52:21
TIN
So, Yeah. So just release, trust your touch. So the music video, is out now, and that's available to stream. Then I have my pride single coming out, and the song is called Kid Pig because I'm all classed and I'm all cast.
00:31:52:22 - 00:32:02:19
Dan Hall
As a lead. All we all.
00:32:02:21 - 00:32:19:09
TIN
And then to celebrate one year of having released Dear Matthew in July, I'll be releasing a few more, a few remixes of that album, which I'm really excited for people to hear as well.
00:32:19:11 - 00:32:21:22
Dan Hall
Can you tell us where we can find you online?
00:32:21:24 - 00:32:48:19
TIN
So you can find all of my, music and social media and, tin official music that's tin like Tin Can tin, and, yeah, you can stream me on all streaming services.
00:32:48:21 - 00:32:56:08
Dan Hall
Tin has been fantastic to have you back on the show. Many, many thanks for coming on. You're an absolute dream guest.
00:32:56:10 - 00:32:59:14
TIN
Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been great. Thank you.
00:32:59:16 - 00:33:23:16
Dan Hall
And many thanks to everyone out there. Listening to our theme tune is by Paul Leonidou at Unstoppable monsters.com. Thanks to Moray Laing for his continued support. And in honor of our Antipodean guest today, I also want to send a special shout out to Kaj in Australia who has just arrived. They're taking his clickety clack doctor registrar shoes into the corridors of that marvelous health system.
00:33:23:16 - 00:33:31:23
Dan Hall
Good luck cats have a fantastic year out there and for everyone else, have a great week. Go and peddle your gay agenda and I'll see you next Tuesday.