00:00:02:08 - 00:00:27:23
Eric Terino
There's a song by a queer artist called Merry Go Shay. The course is something like, you know, worthy. What a thing to claim. And it really is. It's a very powerful idea to say to yourself, I am worthy. And I think a lot of people in our community really struggle with that. Accepting that feeling that.
00:00:28:00 - 00:00:55:18
Dan Hall
This is in the key of Q, featuring queer music, queer chatter, and queer stories from around the world. Everybody is welcome to the conversation. Whichever beautiful identity pleases you. It helps us feel connected and know that we are not alone. Do remember to join the conversation across socials using the hashtag Queer Music. I'm Dan hold. Tune in and be heard.
00:00:55:20 - 00:01:21:00
Dan Hall
This week's guest is a songwriter and musician from the New England region of America. 2013 saw the release of his debut album, the DIY, punk tinged Mountains of Nothing in Love. And ever since, his continued to craft a wide variety of output. He's just released his third LP, innovation of Grave Perversity, blending elements of folk, classical and alternative.
00:01:21:02 - 00:01:26:00
Dan Hall
And delighted to welcome to the show Eric Torino. Eric. Hello.
00:01:26:02 - 00:02:12:12
Eric Terino
Hi, Dan. Thanks for having me.
00:02:12:14 - 00:02:17:13
Dan Hall
So, for people who know nothing about you, would you like to introduce yourself a bit?
00:02:17:15 - 00:02:55:21
Eric Terino
Sure. Well, you said it beautifully yourself just now. I'm an artist and a musician from New England in America. And, I just put out my third record and, Yeah, I guess, I tend to be labeled as a folk artist, which I think is not untrue. But luckily, and this has been one of the most, beautiful things that I've heard in response to people discovering my work is that, people have said it's hard to kind of pinpoint what exactly this sound is.
00:02:55:23 - 00:03:10:18
Eric Terino
You know, what, what kind of genre you would fit in. And that's really the highest compliment, because what I strive to do as an artist and musician is exactly that, which is to make something that isn't out there already.
00:03:10:20 - 00:03:21:07
Dan Hall
And would you say then that you fit into the stereotypical image of a queer musician stroke artist?
00:03:21:09 - 00:03:46:02
Eric Terino
I don't know. In some regards I would say yes, because I am that. You know, so, on paper that is 100% true, but I think, I think a lot of what that label, kind of the visuals that, you know, the ideas that that dredges up when you hear that label wouldn't apply to me. Yeah.
00:03:46:02 - 00:04:00:01
Dan Hall
Because it's kind of like the glitter balls and the six packs and the the sort of tanned bodies, isn't it? In the the old Speedo photo sessions, it's, it's doesn't really chime with the, with the artwork that you do on your work.
00:04:00:03 - 00:04:23:11
Eric Terino
Yeah, I certainly am coming from a much more, yeah, folky kind of place and not necessarily in terms of music, but just kind of like folk art and, I don't know, earthiness, textures, that kind of thing. I just think of myself more in terms of, naturalism rather than, than that kind of gloss.
00:04:23:12 - 00:04:29:15
Dan Hall
And how would you describe folk to people listening to this who might not know what it is?
00:04:29:17 - 00:04:58:14
Eric Terino
That's hard to say, because folk music has so many different roots and comes from, you know, so many different places. There's Irish folk music and Japanese folk music and English folk music and Appalachian folk music. And, you know, there's so many different, places that it ties back to. But basically it's it's kind of a sense of home crafted ness.
00:04:58:15 - 00:05:44:02
Eric Terino
I think that's how I would describe it. It's making something pretty much independently of a system and making something that's rooted in a tradition. I think that's another important aspect of it. You're kind of it's a storytelling medium, basically.
00:05:44:04 - 00:06:03:16
Dan Hall
And I really like what you said about folk being a genre that is specializing in storytelling. That it is a has an almost DIY feel about it. And that is ultimately about our stories. Because for me, that is what the DNA of this podcast is. Music is a is an art form that speaks to me more than any other.
00:06:03:18 - 00:06:09:10
Dan Hall
And when I was growing up, there was an almost complete absence of my queer identity and music.
00:06:09:12 - 00:06:43:16
Eric Terino
Yeah. And I think that's always been the goal. But yeah. And for me, it's been exactly the same. There was so little of my life reflected in the music that I was listening to. And like you said, I could see sort of distorted versions of myself through the the songs of these artists. But until really pretty recently, if there wasn't music being made that explicitly told our stories.
00:06:43:18 - 00:07:16:11
Eric Terino
And so that's something that I always made a point of doing in my own songs. I never wanted anything to be veiled in ambiguity, purposefully, for the sake of making it palatable to, you know, somebody who is uncomfortable with an LGBTQ perspective. But, you know, of course, it doesn't have to be super explicit, but I'm just never shielding the fact that this is where I'm coming from.
00:07:16:11 - 00:07:19:10
Eric Terino
I'm coming from the perspective of a gay man.
00:07:19:12 - 00:07:42:01
Dan Hall
And I have a problems with artists who are cited as being queer heroes or gay icons also, and these are often artists who themselves have been in the closet and maybe come out later in their careers. And when I challenged that, I'm often told, well, you know, it's their own private business. And that is absolutely true. And I would never out anybody.
00:07:42:03 - 00:07:49:15
Dan Hall
But I cannot see how those people can be identified as queer heroes as gay icons. I just don't see how that can be.
00:07:49:17 - 00:08:18:15
Eric Terino
Yeah, there's there are different kinds of heroes. And just because you aren't necessarily a great example of a queer hero doesn't mean that you can't be, you know, musical hero or folk hero, rock here. And, you know, there's lots of, of categories that you can fit into if there's no shame in being uncomfortable with talking about your personal life or your sexuality, but then you know, you you can't be held up to this, this level of, being some kind of gay icon.
00:08:18:20 - 00:09:21:05
Eric Terino
If you're really shying away from speaking about the, you know, the hard truths of of that lifestyle.
00:09:21:07 - 00:09:58:21
Eric Terino
I grew up in, in New England, and I was going to university here when I came out, and I had met, a boy and fallen in love with him. And we were. We were dating basically in secret for, months. And it was sort of like we didn't necessarily understand what was happening, and we felt a bond with each other that was clearly romantic.
00:09:58:23 - 00:10:16:00
Eric Terino
And we both just kind of had this idea that it didn't really matter, that we were both men and or what we both looked like or any of that. It just we just knew that this was love. And so that was how we came to terms with it and knew that we had to share it with our, our friends and family.
00:10:16:02 - 00:10:29:22
Eric Terino
And so we came out together and it it certainly went much better for me than it did for him. But actually, there's a song on this record called A Snowfall at Dusk where I talk about this experience.
00:10:29:22 - 00:10:31:17
Dan Hall
As this on the new record.
00:10:31:19 - 00:11:00:12
Eric Terino
Yeah, it's on innovations of of Grave Perversity and it's, it's a song about sitting alone on a, you know, on a night in the dead of winter and snow begins to fall and you're, you're looking out of the window and you see kind of, the weight of your own isolation. And it takes you back to this moment of when you first felt love.
00:11:00:14 - 00:11:27:00
Eric Terino
And, the narrator in the song is thinking back on that experience of coming out, basically, and how it was. Well, the conclusion of the song, there's the line at the end of the song says, maybe tonight I will survive the storm. My heart moves through. If only I could love myself the way I once loved you, which is is what it's about, really.
00:11:27:00 - 00:13:12:09
Eric Terino
It's about feeling the weight of your, loneliness and thinking, you know, I've been able to love someone else in a way that is with compassion and empathy and affection. Why can't I extend that to myself and allow myself to, you know, see that? See the good in in me, as opposed to always kind of veering towards the negative and, you know, feeling like there's something that has something wrong with you that has led you to feeling lonely or isolated.
00:13:12:11 - 00:13:23:02
Dan Hall
Did you think a lot of your family's acceptance was because it was expected? Or was it simply that they were the sort of cool people who. It was not an issue.
00:13:23:04 - 00:13:49:07
Eric Terino
It definitely the latter. They they it was not expected. And if it if it was, if they had any sense of it, I think they had made sure that they wouldn't allow themselves to believe it for whatever reason. Again, this is probably in, 2005, if that's that's kind of the, the landscape. But no, the reaction was unexpected.
00:13:49:07 - 00:14:12:19
Eric Terino
They did not expect this. And a lot of my friends didn't either. Which to me was kind of surprising because I had suddenly become best friends with this boy friend, you know, and we'd be like, going out and doing things together. And, you know, he'd be, like, sleeping over at my house. It wasn't, I don't know, I think a big part of it.
00:14:12:21 - 00:14:19:07
Dan Hall
It's certainly not a two plus two equals five, is it really? It's all right. Well, once you know all, all the evidence is there.
00:14:19:08 - 00:14:43:06
Eric Terino
Yes. The evidence was certainly there. But I think part of it is I've always been unusual in one way or the other. And I think a lot of that has to do with being an artist. And I've basically my whole life people have known me as an artist in one, you know, be it true as a painter or a musician or whatever.
00:14:43:08 - 00:15:42:10
Eric Terino
But I think a lot of what my family and friends saw in me was he's different somehow. But I think it's just it's just because he's an artist. He's he's just different. You know, it wasn't like if I was, a banker or something, and then I, you know, if if I was a something that wasn't kind of eccentric by nature, they would think, although, you know, maybe they're maybe he is gay because there's something, you know, off about him.
00:15:42:12 - 00:15:49:18
Dan Hall
You spoken in our preliminary conversation about mental illness. Can you tell us a bit about that?
00:15:49:20 - 00:16:32:00
Eric Terino
Yeah. My journey with mental illness has been. Complicated. It's it's something that I've dealt with my entire life, and I have to varying degrees, you know, had success in managing it at the moment, the biggest aspect of mental that my mental illness that is, consuming me is it's presenting itself in the form of agoraphobia, which is a fear of basically being in any place that isn't deemed safe, which for me is, you know, my home.
00:16:32:00 - 00:17:19:14
Eric Terino
So I'm able to I'm not really able to leave my home. I can get, you know, a little ways out, but I can't really travel, you know, further than a few miles. And I think a lot of that has to do with. And this isn't something that I actively acknowledge, but I do think if I were to dig into it, a big part of my fear of feeling unsafe out in the world is rooted in feeling homophobia from people when I've, you know, been out in the world in the past and, you know, I've had a lot of deeply traumatic experiences in my life with people, strangers and friends.
00:17:19:14 - 00:17:30:04
Eric Terino
And, you know, it's led to me feeling like it's not it's not safe.
00:17:30:06 - 00:17:35:05
Dan Hall
Can you give us an example of some of what you've experienced that has led to this?
00:17:35:07 - 00:18:04:23
Eric Terino
Well, the major trauma that I felt in my life is, the death of my my best friend for all, of all of my life, and that. Well, yeah. And that was nearly ten years ago now. But she was someone that I knew from God, primary school. You know, we must have been eight or something. And then we lived together for a number of years.
00:18:04:23 - 00:18:31:16
Eric Terino
We went to college together. We moved to New York together. We basically spent our whole lives together. And she passed away in a car accident. You know, just driving to work one morning. And I think that has really impacted me, this sense that. In both positive and negative ways. But this, this kind of validation that your life could be taken from you on a whim.
00:18:31:18 - 00:18:49:07
Eric Terino
You don't have to be doing something dangerous. You don't have to be living recklessly. You could be doing anything in it, and it could be over. And so losing her was devastating.
00:18:49:09 - 00:18:57:22
Dan Hall
Can you explain to those people who don't know listening, what I prefer would be, is like, what? What is the experience that you have?
00:18:57:24 - 00:19:15:13
Eric Terino
If you asked me to drive to the corner shop a mile down the road to me, that would feel like you're asking me to jump out of an airplane there, the level of anxiety is so high it feels like you're doing something wild.
00:19:15:15 - 00:19:26:15
Dan Hall
A lot about people who don't understand anxiety, who go, why can't you just take a deep breath and just hold your head up to the sun and to stroll forward?
00:19:26:17 - 00:19:51:21
Eric Terino
I mean, it it touches on a much bigger issue, which is you can't live your life only caring about what you understand. So if for someone that said something like that to another person who's facing anxiety or any kind of mental illness, I would say take a moment yourself to try and see that just because this isn't something that you understand, it doesn't mean that it's not true.
00:19:52:02 - 00:20:40:18
Eric Terino
It's it's wrong.
00:20:40:20 - 00:21:00:09
Dan Hall
I don't know how accepted we are as queer people. I feel that we're accepted if we're entertaining or if we're beautiful. But. But actually, if we have complexities such as relationship failures or dysfunctionality in some way, then we are very quickly and maybe more easily discarded.
00:21:00:11 - 00:21:22:06
Eric Terino
You know, when I was living in New York with, boyfriend for a long time, I still even even living in New York, I had a hard time accepting, you know, that he wanted to hold my hand if we were out in public because there is a fear that someone will say something hurtful, which could really destroy your day.
00:21:22:06 - 00:21:52:09
Eric Terino
It could really break your character. Your, could really break your spirit for a long time, but more so the fear that someone might physically harm you. And that's something that I've had to, you know, deal with for, for all of my, my youth was that sense of not feeling like it was. A wise choice to be openly affectionate with the same sex partner.
00:21:52:11 - 00:22:07:11
Dan Hall
And what do you feel about people who would say to you, well, Eric, if you don't want to be hurt, if you don't want to put yourself in danger, then why don't you just not be openly affectionate? Why do you just keep a hidden when you're in public?
00:22:07:13 - 00:22:33:22
Eric Terino
Well, that's the issue. You know, part of me would want to say to those people, I agree, but of course, that's not the healthy solution, because that's just, you know, stifling the the core of yourself to please others. And if we all went about our lives like that, you know, we'd be building society of lies, you know?
00:22:33:22 - 00:22:48:12
Eric Terino
So I don't think anyone is is going to feel healthy if they're not being them, their true selves. We all need to be accepting of the fact that showing affection for another human being is a good thing.
00:22:48:14 - 00:23:07:23
Dan Hall
Absolutely. And it reminds me of, I don't know if you have the same thing in America, but I remember there being some scandal. I think it was in the 80s when police forces in this country, or maybe one particular police force said that, if women wanted to avoid being raped, they should not wear short skirts and they shouldn't walk down dark alleys.
00:23:08:03 - 00:23:14:08
Dan Hall
And it's like, well, short skirts and dark alleys. Don't write women. Men write it.
00:23:14:10 - 00:23:15:05
Eric Terino
Exactly.
00:23:15:07 - 00:23:17:19
Dan Hall
Like us.
00:23:17:21 - 00:23:41:01
Eric Terino
Right. And that's the exact same principle. And I've heard that same scenario many times. But that's exactly the point. We're kind of conditioned to think that, to think that people are going to do the worst thing, you know. So if you're a woman and you're wearing a short skirt, you're asking for it in the same way that if you're a gay man and you're being affectionate in public, you're asking for it, you know?
00:23:41:01 - 00:24:53:16
Eric Terino
But luckily, I really feel like we're moving beyond that. From from what I can see, from where I'm standing, it seems like we're making great strides in moving beyond that perspective and coming to the realization that. You're only asking for it if you ask for it.
00:24:53:18 - 00:25:23:23
Eric Terino
The pain that we feel from any romantic relationship that doesn't succeed. Is always going to kind of break our confidence in one way or another. And I think it's important to remember that even though a relationship hasn't succeeded. You know, by lasting forever, it doesn't mean that it was a failure. And I think that is something that we kind of excel at, actually in our community, I think.
00:25:24:00 - 00:25:50:11
Eric Terino
And so because we're our our lives are not built around the, the path that is presented to most people when they're growing up, this kind of straight path of having a, a partner and children and getting, you know, a good job and all that, we're much more able to find partners that suit certain moments in our lives and then move on from that and find new partners.
00:25:50:13 - 00:26:09:03
Eric Terino
Which I mean, really can be a very healthy way to live as long as you're not viewing all of those that the end of all those relationships as you know, like another notch in your failure belt, you have to look at it as you, you know, you did the right thing for yourself in that moment and for the other person in that moment.
00:26:09:05 - 00:26:20:23
Eric Terino
And you both were exactly where you needed to be so that you could grow and move on to not even necessarily the next romantic relationship, but just the next phase of your life.
00:26:21:00 - 00:26:26:16
Dan Hall
Now, we touched on it briefly earlier, but could you tell me a bit about your new album you've just had out?
00:26:26:18 - 00:26:55:00
Eric Terino
And it's been such a such a life affirming journey putting this record out, making it was one experience, you know, that was a whole thing unto itself. But the reception it's received has just been really, beautiful. And it's so nice to hear that people are kind of understanding it and seeing pieces of themself in it, which is really what I've always wanted to do.
00:26:55:02 - 00:26:58:00
Dan Hall
Because you made it all during lockdown, didn't you?
00:26:58:02 - 00:27:31:15
Eric Terino
It was November of 2020 was when I started recording it, and I finished in, I think it was April of 2021. So it was kind of at the height of lockdown. But the great thing about that was so I started writing these songs, sometime before that, but I began when I began to record them, they sort of naturally called for instrumentation that was outside of my ability.
00:27:31:17 - 00:27:59:06
Eric Terino
You know, I can really just kind of play like a little guitar and a little piano and have to write the songs. And there's some other things that, you know, I can do, but I wanted this record to be really natural and organic and to have as little electronic interference as as possible. And so I wanted strings and, horns and all that kind of stuff, and I can't play those.
00:27:59:06 - 00:28:40:21
Eric Terino
So the fact that we were in lockdown made it so that a lot of musicians were recording remotely and were setting themselves up to record remotely, and they were more open to that. And so I really was able to use the process of making this record as a means of connecting with people in a way that I hadn't done before, and that I really, whether I knew it or not, kind of needed to do it, was so tied into what the record is about, which is about this journey of trying to move beyond and.
00:28:40:23 - 00:29:35:23
Eric Terino
A place of isolation and to find a way to a new day into a, you know, a new birth, basically.
00:29:36:00 - 00:29:53:13
Dan Hall
Now, one of the things I like to do most of this podcast is to give queer voices a voice. I still think we're pretty silenced amongst the heteronormative world. Of course, once we finish this recording, I will take it into the edit and nip and tuck us a little bit to make us both sound very clever and lovely.
00:29:53:15 - 00:30:08:04
Dan Hall
But for the next two minutes, I'm not going to do that. Literally, this is your free airtime. You can talk about whatever you want for the next two minutes, and I promise you, I won't get out the red pen and your time will start as soon as you start talking.
00:30:08:06 - 00:30:33:12
Eric Terino
Well, thank you for giving me the time to speak. I have been very hard on myself, and I have been one to immediately turn to the negative and to say, you know, there is something unworthy about me because of XYZ. And through the making of this record and writing it and of course, that's a reflection of what was really happening in my life.
00:30:33:15 - 00:31:23:09
Eric Terino
I was able to shift my perspective to one of positivity, and I think that's such an important thing for us to do, to be kind to ourselves, to extend the same graciousness and kindness that we extend to strangers and to our friends and our family, to ourselves, and to be forgiving of our, you know, the times when we are imperfect, in the times when we, feel that we've made an error in judgment, and the more you do that, the more that you instinctively allow yourself to think in a positive way and to view your experiences as ones that whether they seem it seem on the surface or not, as helpful, they all are
00:31:23:09 - 00:31:58:24
Eric Terino
helping you to become a more well-rounded, you know, fuller person. And these, having these experiences is shaped in a positive way will allow you to to find yourself feeling more confident in your life, in your decisions, in your relationships. And I think coming from the perspective that I'm coming from, which is, you know, someone who's I think on the surface, a lot of people will look at my life and say, well, that doesn't seem great.
00:31:59:01 - 00:32:28:11
Eric Terino
You know, it doesn't seem like you should be happy about where you find yourself. In terms of, you know, not the your phobia and mental illness and all that kind of stuff, but the I think it's it's really important to remember that just because you don't have the life that you envisioned for yourself and the life that you expected, and my life certainly hasn't turned out the way that I imagined it, it doesn't mean that it's the wrong life for you.
00:32:28:11 - 00:32:53:10
Eric Terino
It doesn't mean that it is in any way invalid, you know, not valuable. It doesn't mean that you're not a worthy whole person. And so I think the most important thing to to remember, as we as we move forward, is that we. Are worthy that really that really is. I've been thinking about that a lot lately.
00:32:53:12 - 00:33:18:16
Eric Terino
There's actually, there's a song by a queer artist called Merry Go. Shay. But I know the song because it was covered by Bettye LaVette, and it's called worthy and the chorus is something like, you know, worthy. What? What a thing to claim. And it really is. It's a very powerful idea to say to yourself, I am worthy.
00:33:18:18 - 00:35:24:19
Eric Terino
And I think a lot of people in our community really struggle with that. Accepting that feeling that.
00:35:24:21 - 00:35:30:13
Dan Hall
An hour ago. You think your 15 year old self would think of you.
00:35:30:15 - 00:35:58:16
Eric Terino
My 15 year old self, I think, would be astounded by what he sees. For a multitude of reasons. I think he would be very excited to. To learn that I've fulfilled a lot of my musical dreams and that I've made, you know, I've made these songs a reality that I've worked with some of the people that I've worked with.
00:35:58:18 - 00:36:28:06
Eric Terino
I think you'd be really pleased to see that. I think he would be very surprised to see the. I think he would. I mean, I think he would be devastated to see that I lost my my best friend. I think he would be, on the surface, confused by the state of my physical, life in terms of, you know, physical, capable ities relating to mental illness and all of that.
00:36:28:08 - 00:36:36:22
Eric Terino
But overall, he would be really proud, I think, of the person that he sees.
00:36:36:24 - 00:36:43:13
Dan Hall
What career artist would you recommend we take a listen to after we finish listening to you?
00:36:43:15 - 00:36:51:03
Eric Terino
Oh, what queer artists would I recommend?
00:36:51:05 - 00:36:55:21
Dan Hall
00:36:55:23 - 00:37:20:11
Eric Terino
Well, I guess just because I was just speaking about her merry. Gosh. I think her most popular song is is one that does the one I would recommend, and it's called mercy. Now and got it. You must have come out 15 years ago, but it's it's a lovely song about a lot of the things that we've been talking about.
00:37:20:13 - 00:37:29:17
Eric Terino
You know, like all the, the pains of the world and extending some, some mercy to all of these, these difficult situations that people in various communities are all going through.
00:37:29:19 - 00:37:52:21
Dan Hall
Lovely. Eric, we've been listening to your beautiful music all the way through this episode, but I think we've saved the best for last. I like to round off an episode by asking the guest to introduce a gateway song from their catalog, the gateway song being the perfect introduction to anybody listening to this who hasn't yet heard your material, what would your gateway song be and why?
00:37:52:23 - 00:38:20:11
Eric Terino
My gateway song would be it's called felt and it's actually the the opening track on my latest record. So it is the gateway to the record is and I think also it serves as a great introduction to the music that I make as a whole. It's a song that really kind of deals with it, touches on all of the big themes that are in my work isolation and feelings of futility and finding hope in darkness and the state of the world.
00:38:20:11 - 00:42:50:14
Eric Terino
And, you know, also all sorts of things that I like to touch on in my work and overall, if there's one thing that I would label my music as is examining emotions. And so this song is about looking back on and thinking over all of the things that you have felt in your life and and yeah, so that's the song that I think really encapsulates what I try to do in my work.
00:42:50:16 - 00:42:58:13
Dan Hall
Eric. Tara. You know, thank you very much for coming on in the cave choir and sharing with us your stories and your music.
00:42:58:15 - 00:44:02:12
Eric Terino
Thank you so much for having me down.
00:44:02:14 - 00:44:26:05
Dan Hall
Thank you, everyone for listening. And if you enjoyed the show, please do give us a five star rating wherever you listen to podcasts. And financial assistance is always gratefully received. Details on how to support production can be found in the show notes as, of course, can the link to our Spotify playlist. The In the Key of key theme tune is by Paul Leonidou at Unstoppablemonsters.com and many thanks go to Moray Laing for his continued support.
00:44:26:07 - 00:44:30:09
Dan Hall
Everybody keep pedaling your gay agenda and I'll see you next Quesday