There's a special Saturday Nights nightcap on seven hundred WLW
Gerry Jeff Walker. And as we all have seen, the mostly peaceful, fiery protests around the country continue in places, and today had of course the no Kings protest and thousands of cities and municipalities all over the country to protest President trump ice deportations, of the raids that have been going on, the things by the way that President Trump promised would happen if he were elected president, and also all kinds of trans rites protests to mixed in,
because well, really, if you've been paying attention since nineteen twenty or since twenty twenty, hell since nineteen twenty probably the communists have been on the march in America. But since twenty twenty with the BLM and the Antifa riots and the takeovers that we saw there that were not mostly peaceful like we were all told by a lot
of the mainstream media. We've seen this repeat again here in twenty twenty five, first off, responding to the ice raids in Los Angeles, and this is where the violence really began with the left and the people who were objecting to federal officials upholding the law I thought it would be interesting to talk to Mark Mix, who is
a frequent guest many times. He is president of the National Right to Work Committee and National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation, and he is our guest for this first half hour tonight, Mark Mix, Welcome to the show, and Happy Father's Day to you.
Well, Garry Jeff, thank you for that. I've got six kids that hopefully will come say something nice to me on Sunday. I'm not sure, but I think I've earned it. They may not agree, but I think I have, so thank you for that. It's good being a dad.
Well certainly.
The SIU California president was arrested at one of the ice raids last week after blocking federal agents from performing their lawful duties like so many others have. But Mark, I wanted to ask you, how involved are these public service employees unions in not only participating in these not so peaceful protests and the obstruction of justice and even financing them.
What do we know so far?
Yeah, Gary jeff Well, the president of the California SEIU, was part of a group of protesters that blocked the ingress and exit from a detention facility out in Los Angeles and that kind.
He sat in front of a vehicle and wouldn't move.
And then there was other kind of incidents that were involved in that particular event, and he was arrested and went to jail, and of course that became the cause celeb of organized labor was you know, this guy, our union official who's exercising you know, so called First Amendment rights when it comes to protest, must be released. He was released on Monday on I guess a fifty thousand
dollars bond. But we'll be back in front of a judge somewhere, I think, to basically determine whether or not he's guilty of blocking a mission, you know, the mission of a federal agency as it relates to what they were doing. And I appreciate Gary Jeff that you said, this is granted what what Trump said he was going to do. He's going to enforce immigration laws, and they were going to take control of a system that'd been
out of control for four years. But union officials like Dennis Warta, the president of the California s CiU, disagree, and so blocking it completely was something they wanted to do. And then we find out that these unions, the SEIU American Federation of Teachers and Noted Food and Commercial Workers, the hotel employee restaurant unions, the afl CIO, the iron Workers. They're providing resources to the groups in California that are behind these protests and behind what you say, mostly peaceful.
I guess looting and breaking windows is mostly peaceful. That's not really that aggressive.
Well, you know, Mark, they were just they were just they were just having fun watching cars burn. Well, yeah, I always thought that a good car burning was a mostly peaceful pastime. Not in my neighborhood, thank god. And I will tell you this, Mark, I'm really surprised about the Teamsters, since they supported President Trump and they knew exactly.
And I'm surprised that a lot of these labor unions are participating and helping finance and facilitate these not peaceful protests in places, this violence, in this vandalism, not because they haven't in the past, But don't they aren't they here to support the American worker, the American worker, American citizens or are they here you're mainly just as resistance as opposition to anybody.
Who is for the American worker. That's my question.
Well, that's a great question.
And it raises a very interesting point about the union movement in America today, Gary Jeff.
When you think.
About, first of all, the public sector unions versus the private sector unions, there is a disconnect there between those two. And then when you take the so called leadership of the unions and then you juxtaposition it against the rank and file workers, you begin to see the difference between the attitudes and values of the union officials versus that
of the rank and file members. I mean, it is very clear that a majority, a fairly substantial majority of private sector union members and union households voted for Donald Trump. But union officials, on the other hand, using money that's collected oftentimes in twenty four states as a condition of you keeping your job, turn around and spend that money on politics that rank and file workers disagree with. And I think that's the point here with the government unions.
You know, there may be a different ideological difference between public sector employees and private sector employees. But your point, Gary Jeff, about the American worker and that five point nine percent of the private sector workforce that unionized, they have a completely different view of the world than the leaders that and I use my finger quotes. When I say leaders, the leaders they claim that they represent these workers and then to use that money that they collect
as a conditioner of employment to fund activities. I think the more that's exposed, the more union officials will be held accountable by rank and file workers.
And maybe, just maybe we'll get.
A union movement that focus more on the shop floor than they do on what's going on in Washington, DC, or Columbus, Ohio, or Sacramento, California, or all but.
In New York.
Well.
The Trump derangement syndrome that seems to infected most of the Democrat Party and these union as air quotes leaders has spread, of course, to elected officials, like the California Senator Padilla, who was apprehended while lunging for DHS Secretary CHRISTI Nomant a press conference, basically looking like he was gonna bum rusher from the podium at a press conference. At a news conference, and he said, don't you know I'm a United States Senator. It's like, well, you should
probably act like one. I don't know if you saw that video or not from this past week, but certainly there are members of the House who have acted in this manner who are essentially either breaking the law or breaking protocol. All he had to do was ask for a meeting with her or participate. I guess he could participate from the back of this press conference if he was called upon and ask her a question. Seems that they had a chat after he was apprehended after lunging
at her. And you're seeing this over and over again from people that really are not acting like they should be acting to be in the position that this is a United States senator, this is one of the most one hundred most powerful people in our government, and he has to be restrained by officers of the law because he is breaking the law or trying to threaten a cabinet member. Is this is stuff is getting out of hand, and it's not just the unions that are involved.
Mark Mix Yeah, indeed, and it makes for good theater and it makes for great headlines on the so called
legacy media. I mean, the framing of this thing as it relates to how it all went down has been you know, you'd think you were on a different planet watching a certain media outlet versus another one as it relates to how this thing came down and how it how he acted but it got headlines, it got media, and to your point, Gary Get it folds into that kind of Trump derangement syndrome of saying, you know, this is what these alleged marches are going to be today about.
You know, no kings or this national Day of Resistance, whatever you want to call it against the Trump administration, when in fact, to your earlier point, he's doing what he said he was going to do if people voted for him to be president the United States, and the majority of Americans, not only electoral college, but the popular vote, voted for a president that articulated safe borders, secure borders, law and order, rule of law, I mean, keeping men
out of women's showers and bathrooms and sports. Those types of policies are what attracted Americans to this presidency and the Democrats and some of those people like Senator Padilla from California, who I guess I wouldn't have recognized him if he tried to bumblell be, but now we do, we recognize him. It was a good r stunt for him, And you're right. Senator calls a cabinet secretary, they get
the phone call answered, they get the time. They just have to ask for it in a polite and civilized way as opposed to trying to make a media event out of it.
And that's all it was performance theater, and so much of this is just immersed in performance theater. Mark mix I wanted to ask you to because you and I have talked many times before. All unions are not created equal, and you have no problem with people wanting to be a member of the union if they that's what they choose, if that's the best option for them. But these public service employees unions, again like the SEIU and asked me, and the teachers' unions, they just seem to be so
out of step with the rest of America. If you look at the polling, if you look at what the American people prefer, if you look at this deportation thing, in many cases.
Is an eighty twenty issue.
The trans movement and regarding men biological men being involved in women's sports that you mentioned earlier is pretty much an eighty twenty issue, and some of these unions seem like they're on the twenty side of that. Are they just used to being in the minority in this country or what is the reasoning behind that is? Again, is it again just opposition to American values? Is it opposition to Donald Trump?
What is it?
Well, I think it's kind of all of the above, Gary Jack. But what really predicates it, in what supports it is this idea that they can take away your right to speak for yourself, even though you never asked for, or never voted for, or never wanted them in your workplace.
This idea of freedom of association.
It presupposes you have the right not to associate logically, but yet union officials, particularly in the public sector, in the government sector, have been great this union monopoly control. And so when you can't be held accountable by those people you claim to represent, i e. You get to speak for them, they don't get to speak for themselves.
And then when you kind of add in the liberal ideology of the most union officials, and I mentioned already the disconnect between rank and file workers and the so called leaders that represent them, you begin to get a picture of what it looks like. And in the private sector, I think it's changing because workers in America are getting tired of the radical views that union officials are taking. In the public sector, it's a little it's a little harder.
We're seeing now the American Federation of Government Employees, the National Treasury Employees Union, asks me, SEIU those unions you mentioned that primarily represent government employees or have a big chunk of their of their membership as government employees, I mean. Franklin Roosevelt was against this, Gary Jeff. He was asked back in the nineteen thirties, when we imposed private sector forced unionism on the entire country, someone asked them, why
don't we do this for government? Says, it's unthinkable you would do it for government. It's not the same. The afl CIO, the Executive Committee, the AFLCIO back in the late nineteen fifties early sixty said no, we're not going to unionize government employees.
But for government employees, for.
Union officials today, the government employee base, I mean, which is about almost half of all union members in the country, Gary Jeff. Today, our public sector employees are government employees. It's a final frontier for them. It's the you know, it's the idea that there's no competition and that your demands, if they're met, you know, they just come from this ever increasing flow or re rekindling flow of taxpayer money.
As opposed to the private sector where if you if you make demands that are too great for a business to survive, you put people out of work. And that's where it is. And it's this unaccountability. It's this control and power and privilege they've been granted over the years, going back to the nineteen thirties and then from in the public sector and the government sector from the nineteen fifties on. And you're seeing a reaction to that now.
People are starting to pay attention to the power that government union officials have liked the teachers union that's being exposed, and I think people are reacting to that well, and.
The fact that teachers unions control elections in a lot of states, like my home state of Kentucky, where that is simply the only reason in an otherwise red state that Andy Basheer got voted into another office, another term in office as governor. With the teachers unions, especially in the eastern part of the state and more rural districts,
because they are the largest employers in those districts. That turns out they have a lot of survey and a lot of power in places, even though their membership nationwide is so small.
Yeah, their power is out of all proportions to their numbers. But that power is a legislative granted privilege, and they have used that extremely effectively over the des aids to increase their power, particularly in an election process. I mean, and yeah, you get into a place where government is the primary driver of local small town economies or county economies, and you see the power of that exercise and nothing.
I mean, they go out and vote, they vote their way, but most of the time they're voting to get their hand in the pocketbooks of the taxpayers. And that gets really strange. And they do have power, but that power,
again is a government granted power and privilege. You know, when you tell teachers, for example, a new teacher that comes in and goes through orientation is required to sit down with a union official for four hours before they can, you know, finalize the paperwork to become a teacher in a profession they you know, train for and want to.
Be part of.
And the thing you have to do is sign a paper that says, yeah, you got to you gott to join the union, you got to pay dues, and oh, by the way, you need to know that if you ever got sued in the classroom, we're here to protect you and we have insurance, when in fact, you know, politicians have tried, for example, for teachers, saying let's cover the teachers under the state insurance policy program, which it only costs us a couple of bucks, and of course
the unions oppose that because it's a major draw when they scare the budjeekers out of these new teachers and create that power. There are many teachers that benefit to your point, Geary Jeff, to benefit and want to be part of the union because they agree with their agenda, they agree with what they do. That's all fine, But in the public sector we run into a real problem when you give a private organization power in between citizens
and elected officials. And that's where the unions are positioned when it comes to government.
Excellent point, Mark Mix, president of the National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation. Now, are you are there any cases that you'd like to spotlight real quickly tonight before we conclude anything that you're working on right now.
Well, we've been busy in Ohio and that area, Gary Jeff. You know, at the beginning of the year, we were working with some employees that at Freedo LA at Freedo, lay Warehouse and Wooster, Ohio, and some Omnisource employees in Toledo, Ohio that basically decertified the Team Stirs union. They had a vote and they threw the Team Stirs out because you know this disconnect between leadership and others. We're obviously
working right now. There are cases all over the country we've got helping individual employees exercise their rights in the workplace. The Foundation, with our nineteen staff attorneys, have about two hundred and sixty active cases as you and I talked this evening, Gary, Jeff. So there's lots of work to do and lots of opportunity for workers who have questions about their rights in the workplace viause of the unionization can contact the Foundation and get help and get answers
to questions. And so we're excited to be able to provide that to workers across the country.
Who would they contact, Mark if you can real quick?
Yeah, they can contact the Foundation at NRTW dot org WWWNRTW dot org and there's lots of information there, or they can call one eight hundred to three three six thirty six hundred and talk with an attorney about their rights in the American Workplace.
Mark Mix from the National Right to Work Foundation. Thank you so much for your time, and again, Happy Father's Day, my friend.
Thanks Jerry, Jeff, appreciate the.
Time you got it.
Ed Bartlett on Father's and Father's Day coming up after news on a special Saturday night night cap on seven hundred WLW.
Is this half hour we're going to be talking with.
Edward Bartlett Barmer.
Who is the.
Who is the president of excuse me, who was the president of the International Council for Men and Boys, a non governmental organization working to assure gender.
Equality for all.
Of course, we had the women's equality movement back in the sixties and seventies.
Ed I don't know what was.
The reason that you decided, and your organization decided that men needed a quality too. By God, and believe me, as a red bl lot of American male, I'm all for it. This is also the conclusion this week of International Men's Health.
Week observed around the world.
Tomorrow is Father's Day, and I wanted to tell you first, Ed that my dad is still with us at the age of eighty eight. He'll be eighty nine, God willing at the end of October if he gets through this lit if he gets through this little impasse. My dad has fibrosis and has been back in the hospital this weekend as a matter of fact for breathing treatments.
He's doing great, doing better.
But so what was there what was the reason initially for an international Council for Men and Boys?
Yeah, great question, Jeff, And thank you for sharing about your dad and I wish him good health and happiness and a Swiss recovery. So thanks for sharing that. But to answer your question, so you've I'm sure you've heard the claim that there's a something that feminists like to refer to as the oppressive patriarchy, which is, you know, constantly searching for ways to oppress and discriminate against women.
Yeah.
Well, if I told you now that there is no such thing as patriarchy, would you be totally surprised.
No, there is a much a much more base kind of thing that me and guys have said amongst each other, usually not with women around. And it's the fifty percent thing. It's fifty percent and all percent. And I'm not going to elaborate any further than that, Ed, I have never felt like there was a patriarchy in this country or in in the world as it related to relations between men and women. I don't feel like an oppressor, is what I'm telling you.
Well, honestly, that's exactly how I have felt for many, many years and decades. So that feeling and impression that I had led us to actually look at the data, and not just in the United States. We looked at, you know, information from the World Health Organization, the International Labor Organization, the World Bank, et cetera, et cetera, to track down where does this myth of the feared patriarchy come from? Well, it turns out in twelve areas. It's
the truth is, men are lagging behind women. Okay, you know we've already talked about men dying five years earlier than women, and not just in the US globally. You know, there's a problem of fewer men enrolled in high school and colleges these days. As another factor the fact that men who will go through divorce but children usually cannot
get even fifty to fifty shared parenting. Another example the more severe treatment of men by the criminal system, even when compared to women who commit exactly the same crime. I can literally go on and on. There's twelve different areas, all based on good, good data, not based on you know, some ranting ide logue based on good data that says men are lagging behind women. So there is no such thing as but patriarchy. Let's say that loud and say it clear.
Yeah, me, men's health is lagging behind in funding research and obviously what's pushed in mainstream media.
Ed Bartlett.
So we really you're giving voice to half of the population who really doesn't have one in many cases when it comes to their health, especially with International Men's Health Week going on. So what kind of initiatives are you guys, are we guys pushing and what kind of initiatives can help bring us out of the out of the forest here and get us the kind of attention that we're lacking otherwise.
Well, first of all, let me say that Men's International Men's Health Week, in fact is being observed all around the world. In fact, there's organizations and if I can just tell you the list of countries Australia, Canada, Germany, Ireland, United Kingdoms and the United States. In each of those countries there is a designated organization that's leading the charge and they're holding seminars, media campaign you name it. They're
trying to get this issue into the public eye. So I think the key, you know, the question to answer to your question is we need to publicize these facts because again, there's still this narrative it's pretty widespread that says that that men are you know, are somehow you know hop pot have all of the power. And if I can, let me give an example of that. So, so I used to work at the Department of Health and Human Services, the federal DHHS. I was there seventeen years.
I had a wonderful experience, but after I left, I learned a really dispariting fact. There are seven offices of women's health at DHHS against seven offices women's sealth. Zero offices of men's health at DHHS.
Now zero.
Exactly, there are zero offices even though men are dying five years earlier, and we haven't even talked about suicide issues. But you know, right there you have to say, wow, well, what the heck is going on? How did that possibly happen? And if I came, I'll give you the answer to that that question. So feminus like to float myths in order to support for flame of patriarchy. So the myth here is Oh, well, women were routinely excluded for medical
research for years and years and years. Well, I have news for you, and it's not just research that I have done personally. A researcher named James nousoh and u Zzo recently did a report on exactly this and guess what he found.
Zero.
You know, you go all the way back to nineteen sixty six and beyond that, there was no exclusion, there was no under representation, there was no shortfall in funding. It's an absolute myth that has been created.
Well, it sounds a whole lot more like a lie than a myth. I think you're being kind when you say it's a myth, ed Barley.
But aren't guys? Haven't guys been to this point?
And this is maybe why International Men's Health Week globally is so important, just from a matter of awareness. Aren't guys? Aren't we our own worst enemy when it comes to our health? Because you know, I didn't need anybody to tell me that I should see a doctor every year, But for thirty five years I didn't see a doctor. I didn't think anything was wrong, So why go even though we should all go get a physical or a
wellness check? At least annually, if not more often. Women go all the time, but men tend to not unless their arm is falling off or unless something is majorly wrong. And you know this is true. And I don't know if that's part of the psyche of men. Have we been programmed this way or is it?
Is it something else?
Yeah, you're you're really raising a terrific good question. And and yes, I think it's fair to say that that call it part of the DNA and men that men tend to think of ourselves as strong and self reliant. I think that's not just in the US. I think there's that basic truth is true around the world. So yes, it can lead to men tending to deny their own health needs. I was personally, I was fortunate. I was
a draftee in the army many many years ago. I ended up as a medical corman, so I began to understand, sort of at that gut level, Hey, you know, it's important to really pay attention to our health. So but yeah, this is I think this point that you're raising is a an important lesson for International Men's Health Month?
Is that?
And weak? Is that?
Yeah?
Men, we need to pay attention more to our own bodies, our own health, make sure that the motor is still running.
Yeah, well, Ed.
When I finally went in August of twenty nineteen, because I literally felt like I was dying, I was having a heart attack or something. When I finally went to the emergency room, my blood pressure was two seventy eight over one eighty seven. It was the only time I'd ever seen a medical professional, this woman who was a nurse's aide or a nurse reading the numbers on the screen, and she said oh and then an expletive and ran out of the room to go get somebody.
Uh.
Wow.
I found out that I had obviously chronic hypertension. I found out that I was a Type two diabetic. I found out that I had some minor heart disease. And I hadn't I hadn't been to the doctor in over thirty years.
Ed.
I mean, but this this is I'm just I'm not the only idiot out there. A lot of us guys are walking around and we're we're just walking time bombs. How how can you get the message out to those guys to let them know that, uh, if nobody else is going to look after our health, we certainly have to.
Well, thank you christ All, thank you for sharing that personal experience. And I think that's that's the critical part of the equation here is is that that men need to speak out more about, you know, the challenges that we have faced. I've also faced in a way similar challenges, not high blood pressure, but other other types of physical challenges that I simply ignored until I start to realize, oh, I was a little bit over committed and I needed
to cut back. You know. A big part of this is just to simply, you know, get these stories out and and talk about it and make it part of the general narrative of the public discourse.
Yeah, some of the events that were held around the world this week. In Australia they had the Australian Men's Forum, Health Forum. Canada, the Canadian Men's Health Foundation launched a national hashtag never Alone campaign to address the rising rates of stress, depression, socialized isolation among men. In Germany and Ireland, they all had efforts. What went on in the United States this past week.
Shed In the United States, we have a very active group called the Men's Health Network again Men's Health Network, and they have been actually approaching all of the governors of every state asking them to issue a proclamation about the importance of men's health. The Men's Health Networks also been and with certain pharmaceutical companies to publicize this. So a lot is going on behind the back, you know, in the background that may not be in the public eye,
at least not yet. But the point is that this is part of a growing movement to say, hey, men are lagging behind women in twelve different areas. One of those is healthcare.
All Right, you're president of the International Council for Men and Boys, and I think it's key that this last part is key because boys become men, we hope, And are there any efforts to educate the younger of us, males of the species that you guys are putting forward.
Well, one of the pull areas that we are very concerned about is what's often referred to as the boy crisis. There's actually a book written by a fellow nu Juan Ferrell, call The Boy Crisis that documents how boys are becoming increasingly disconnected from from their their families, from their friends,
from their classmates, school classmates. So yeah, there's there's a real effort to address this and say hey, folks, we really have to wake up here not all as well with our young boys, or or with with other men. So yeah, a lot of this is simply public awareness.
All right, And that's what you guys are pushing because you know, uh, there's a narrative that is preaching toxic masculinity as well as the patriarchy that you were talking about.
That's a myth.
I think toxic masculinity is another one of those pedled myths that we've been fed that actually hurt men. And and because men are important, and I think that's the whole crux of this conversation at Bartlett, is that men are as important to society as women are. Without men, you don't have a functioning society, you don't have a propagation of the species, you don't have a world that is livable without men. And it's important that men get
their due. And I'm glad that you are doing something about that from a health standpoint and a mental health standpoint. For if people wanted to know more, how would they find out more at Bartlett?
Yeah?
Sure. So here's our web address. It's www dot Men and Boys dot net, Men and Boys dot net, and on our home page one of the twelve areas of concern is men's health.
All right, well, fantastic Again, are you a father ed?
I am a proud father of three boys, so wholeheartedly yes.
So you have been teaching your boys these lessons hopefully through the years.
I've done my best. I'm not a perfect dad, but I certainly have done my best to be a wonderful good dad to my three boys, and I love them so dearly.
Well, a happy Father's Day and enjoy the ties or whatever may come as a result of all this good parenting and the good fatherhood that you have displayed.
And Bartley, thank you for being our guest tonight. All right, thank you.
Good to chat with you.
Jeff, Yeah, fantastic, thank you, sir. Father's Day tomorrow. Guys, You're not the problem, but you need to you need to investigate these issues and make sure that there's not another problem, including your health, because it's one of those things that are over look by society and by proxy, we overlook too many times. Father's Date tomorrow, we continue this show Todd Sheets to talk a little economics on
a Saturday night. When we continue on this special Saturday night cap, I'm Gary Jeff, and this is seven hundred WLW into another hour of this special Saturday nightcap on seven hundred wl W. And joining us for this half hour for this segment is a guy who kind of knows a little bit about the economy and trade, to say the least.
His name is Todd Sheets.
He's the author of, among other things, two thousand and eight, What Really Happened? And those of us who lived through two thousand and eight and the meltdown in the recession, it's a good primer on what not to do again. And we're going to talk a little bit about the Trump trade discussions and how do we get foreign relations back on track with the great reset of President Trump being in office now and Russia and China and now Iran,
with Israel and Iran being at war. Of course, Israel, a little brother in the middle of the sea of monsters, fighting a seven front war of people that want to destroy their country and wipe them off the map, finally took, as you know by now, the kinetic action to knock
out Iran's nuclear capabilities and their air defense systems. And Iran has responded, of course, in kind, with all kinds of attacks on Israel and civilian populations, and just wondering how this is going to affect the economic picture and the trade reset that President Trump has been working so hard to do to get us back on track financially as a country and with foreign trade.
Todd Sheets, Welcome to the show, Garry.
I'm glad to be with you again.
Yep, good to have you.
Basically, how does this war and hopefully it's resolved soon and Iran comes to their senses. I think that there is agreement among a lot of people that the only way there's a resolution to this now is for the Ayatolas regime to be upended by the Iranian people, and it seems like there's a whole lot of support for that within the country of Iran. How do you think that's been handled so far, Todd, And what do you think it means ultimately for the US and Israel and global trade.
Sure, a couple of thoughts here. I've written in my sub stacked pieces on Wealth and Progress recently about these geopolitical issues how it fits into the big picture. And one of the points that I've made there is that I think, you know, we need to use our trade policy and our foreign policy to kind of divide the world into.
Not to be too simplistic about it, but our allies and enemies.
And our allies are people who are consistently countries, consistently peaceful over long periods of time, and who engage with us in trade and other commercial matters under the rules of law and the terms of commercial engagement, you know that have developed in the West and have been proven to lift hundreds and hundreds of millions of people up
out of poverty and into a better life. And our enemies, instead of kind of dividing them by what they say when we're in a negotiation, or even what the form of their government is, or how much they've adopted our values, our enemies are the countries that consistently engage in hostile actions and aggressions against peaceful nations, and that consistently refuse to engage in commerce, you know, under those rules and
standards that I just mentioned. And so I think if you look at that enemy's list, the ones that clearly fall in that category China, Iran, Russia, and North Korea,
and that's where we need to be focused. And one of the other points I've made is that instead of going through these on again, off again negotiations with these countries where it's like, you know, they're sanctions for a period of time, and then we negotiate and the sanctions are removed, are partially removed, and then they go back to the old habits, and then we put them on again. We need to consist, isolate and have sanctions on those countries.
And so obviously now Iran, you know, developing a nuclear weapon has crossed the line into this category where something had to be done. And I think, unlike what's happened in Europe with Russia and Ukraine, we are and our European allies who have not stepped up to play a leading role in dealing with what is primarily a regional crisis in the Middle East.
We are very.
Fortunate to have Israel, which is a relatively small country but you know, has developed a great deal of military strength with our help, but we also with their own initiatives, and they have the courage to use it and play the first line of defense over there. So those are my first thoughts about all of this, and we're just very fortunate to have a partner like Israel. And then I also, as you kind of alluded to, believe that.
I think both NETS and Yahoo and Israel and Trump have just done a masterful job of coordinating their efforts and trying to pursue a peaceful resolution, giving that as much chance as it possibly could have. And then when you know, the Ayatola refused to go down that path, then Israel has stepped up.
And done what needed to be done over there.
Yeah, I kind of think, you know, and we're playing armchair quarterback in Hindsight's twenty twenty and all of that, Todd But I can't help but think that Iran basically showed us who they were when the Islamis took over that country in nineteen seventy nine and took over our embassy, which is de facto US soil, and took that part. When they did that, they declared war on the United States. But we never declared. We never we never followed up
with that. Really, you talk about sanctions and talking trade and you know, not being consistent with Iran, and we certainly have not been consistent with Iran over the years, through the through the Biden administration, through the Obama administration, we just weren't consistent and and they've never signed a deal that they haven't lied about and gone back on.
So I mean, when you talk about consistency with keeping pressure on them, that's something United States through the different presidential administrations definitely haven't done.
Have we.
No, I completely agree with that.
And you know, to me, the great lesson of history here is Reagan and the Soviet Union. And so, you know, we kind of went through this same pattern before Reagan, where you know, we would we would negotiate these arms treaties and there'd be this big hullabaloo and everybody adding each other on the back for having, you know, entered into these negotiations.
This was for years leading up to the nineteen eighties, and.
Then we would come back home and we would fill honor bound to adhere to the standards of those negotiations, and the Soviet Union would only do it if they thought it was in their best interest, and if they didn't,
they just do whatever they wanted to it. And this happened through administration after administration, both Democrats and Republican all the way up through the Nixon administration, and finally Reagan came in and pointed these issues out and the absurdity of this kind of political approach to it with no consequences.
And you know, because of the isolation of the Soviet economy and Reagan's understanding that, you know, one of our greatest resources from a geopolitical perspective was the dynamic nature of our capitalist economy. You know, if we could reinvigorate growth in our system and raised defense spending as a percentage of GDP, he knew that that Soviet economy couldn't keep up with us, and he was right about it.
And it was just this incredible message about how powerful you know, trade and tariff type structures and sanctions.
You know, can be.
If you can take these inherently dysfunctional economies, which all authoritarian systems are, and isolate them instead of engaging with them, eventually they will collapse on their own inefficiencies and problems. And as you just said, you know, that's to me, that's the message that we should take away and we should be applying to these hostile regimes, the ones I just ticked off, including China today on a consistent basis, not on and on again, off again type of thing.
Well, China's economy right now, from everything I'm hearing, is in a free fall. They're in trouble in China, They're in trouble in Iran. They're in trouble in Russia to a certain extent, are they not? Aren't all those three economies are flailing right now and are struggling for life.
Does that elicit hope that a deal.
Can be made that's lasting, that we can be staunch and resolute in our dealings with these people, that they will have to come back around to the table.
And be serious.
Yeah, you know, I think I think the answer the first part of that is absolutely yes, and I think we should be now with China. We have to go a little bit more slowly because our economy is so intertwined with theirs, unfortunately at this point, because we failed to kind of recognize these issues and apply this approach to isolating them instead of engaging with them. So that has to happen a little bit more gradually, which is happening as a result of the negotiations that the Trump
administration is going through right now. You know, we're looking at tariffs on China going from around three and a half percent before Trump came into office the first time to about twenty percent after his first administration, and now according to his recent post moving up.
Into the fifty percent range.
So those are significant increases, but there are also ones that are at levels that I think give American companies and workers an opportunity to adjust over time without things happening too drastically.
And you're right about China.
I mean, you know, with.
Some notable exceptions, that they do a great job of spinning and you know, making it seem like they're in this great resurgent environment. Their economy is racked with excess levels of debt, which my understanding is hard to get good numbers are well above what ours are. They have high levels of unemployment. They have extraordinary excess capacity in the housing sector and in manufacturing, where they have pumped in lots of money to try and build up these
things to keep putting people to work. But they've just built way too much capacity, and now they're trying to you know, the housing they can't dump on the rest of the world, but you know, in the manufacturing sector, they're trying to dump all this stuff on the rest of the world.
So yes, I think.
They're in a world of hurt.
And I think that the Trump administration, in spite of all the criticism, they've had which make it sound like, you know, oh, chairman, she is winning these negotiations. I think Trump has got us exactly where we should be in terms of what the terms of the deal look like right now. So yeah, I think there's a lot of room for optimism there as.
Far as Iran goes.
With the introduction of drill, baby drill, and part of that Trump agenda of opening up our vast energy resources in this country, it puts people like Irana noticed too. Iran, I mean, their economy is just from what I hear in the tank, and I don't know how that regime is going to survive, especially to go back with Israel.
Yes, exactly.
And you know, you know, both Iran and Russia are incredibly oil and energy dependent in their economies. And one of the big mistakes we've made here is, you know, in prior administrations, in kind of the regulatory the environmental concerns have been focused on shutting down US production.
The problem with that is, you know, this is the.
Most environmentally sensitive energy development in the world right here in.
The United States.
And if we shut down our production, it doesn't mean that worldwide demand is being reduced.
It's not.
It's growing at relatively healthy rates and rates that are too fast for renewables to service. And so when we shut down, you know, environmentally sensitive and regulatorially sound development here in the US, we're just sending that opportunity to places like Russia and Iran who don't care about the
environment at anywhere near the levels we do. And then they take the money and fund these kinds of aggressions like we're seeing in Russia against Ukraine and in Iran, you know, with the development of these nuclear weapons and all of the things that they're involved with, funding.
Terrorism and that kind of thing.
So we've made huge mistakes there, and again that's another area where the Trump administration I think is moving us in the right direction.
Yeah, I mean, we cut off off the need for a rany and oil globally because we've got enough energy. I've understood this to be true for quite a while. We cut off that energy and we get into our resources, not only our liquid natural gas, but our oil that we have available under our own feet. As the President says, we can provide for the rest of the world, and we don't need Iran or we don't need Russia either one. And you cut off that, you cut off that resource
to them. You cut off those dollars, and those petro states go literally dry, and they don't have the money to foster this kind of chaos and to.
Fund these wars.
Absolutely, it's like it's a win win win kind of thing. I mean, we put our people to work developing the energy sources instead of theirs. We do it with much more concern for the environment than they're going to have. And as you've just suggested, we also choke off their access to the source of funding, that is, you know, giving them the opportunity to gauge in engage in all these hostile activities like developing nuclear weapons and attacking you know, Ukraine.
And that kind of thing.
So it's it's definitely in the right where we're going in the right direction at this point in time, after going in the wrong direction for a.
Very long time.
Right, the ship's finally turned around. It's a big ship, so it takes a while to turn a big ship around.
I always use the analogy, since its Father's Day Weekend, Todd of my dad being in the Navy in the late nineteen fifties on a ship in the Caribbean and him being on deck and not hearing the call that they're going to pull a hose that he's holding on to, and he got tossed into the drink and they shouted man, they shouted man overboard the second he was in the water, and it took a half an hour to turn around and get him back on board.
Oh my god, in shark infested waters. So Happy Father's Day, Dad. I'm glad the sharks didn't need you. I'm glad the navy came to pick you up.
But it takes a long time to turn a big ship around once you're you're going in the wrong direction.
So yeah, but you know, if at least the ship gets turned and you get the person out of the water, then.
Things can go in the right direction.
And hopefully that's what's happening with us right now, right right exactly.
Happy Happy Father's Day to you, Todd Sheets. I appreciate our time, and you can read Todd's two thousand and eight What really Happened? You can read his articles in sub stack, and hopefully we'll have a chance to chat again soon.
Okay, Todd, I look forward.
Happy Father's Day to you and to all your listeners.
All right, thank you so much.
It's a a special Saturday nightcaps best special Saturday night Cap and it continues. Dave Hatter will join us with some tech talk here in the next half hour. And Joe Evermore the Mountain climb and daddy of four who's bringing his kids along with him for the climb on this father's state weekend on seven hundred WLW. Well, what a NodD place to find Dave Hatter and me on
a Saturday night. This hardly ever happens, and it probably will never happen again, But I'm glad we're here together now, Gary Jeff on a special Saturday Night Cap on seven
hundred WLW. And Yes, Dave Hatter Doomsday. Dave, the guy with the aluminum foil hat because we can't find ten anymore, is here to tell us what we need to be afraid of in the Internet of Things world in which we live, including the most amazing deep fake video I've ever seen that Dave just sent me, Dave, how you're doing this evening?
I'm doing good, Garret, Jeff.
I'm happy to be here.
I'm happy that fates have conspired to bring us together on a Saturday night.
Yes, the fates and the fakes.
Yeah, this video you sent me, you say everybody should see. And I don't know how we disseminate that to people here on the radio except to describe what they may get to see. It's entitled the deep Fake Scams You're Not Ready for made with Google VEO three. What exactly is VEEO three, Dave? As far as you know?
Yeah, so gart Jeff, and I'll put a link to this out in my social media like on x and Facebook and LinkedIn so people to make it easy for me. I'm easy to find. I'll share the so people can see it for themselves. They really do need to see it. Bo three is a new generative AI platform from Google. It allows you to enter a prompt and create incredibly realistic looking video. Now I encourage people to watch this.
It's two minutes. You know, it doesn't look absolutely perfect, but I think most people will be shocked at how good this video is. And I would argue for most people, if they don't know this as a thing and they just happen to catch this online, they would not question the vast majority of these clips and in this video and made by a new product from Google called vo three. It allows you to understand how good this technology is.
The creator of this basically has two minutes worth of very short videos that all are pointing out how real this stuff looks, but yet it's not real because it's AI. So it'll be a woman saying, no, I'm not in love with you and I don't need a plane ticket, I'm AI, or if someone saying I got rich in cryptography, No I didn't because I'm AI. Things like that, and you see, it looks like newspeople, it looks like people trying to tell you something. It looks like regular everyday
people kind of doing their thing. And then at the end of each one of these little clips, all strung together in this very handy two minute video, you can see that every bit of this is AI, and it shows you how realistic this technology already is. And the bigger point in my mind, Gary, Jeff, is it's already this good. Now, think how good it's going to be in another year or two, or what's in some lab
somewhere that we haven't seen yet. Because this was just recently rolled out and it's caused a lot of interest simply because of the capabilities it brings to the table.
Dave, I'm not a gamer, but I have seen.
The humanoid characters in video games, and I marvel at those. This is about one hundred steps past what I've seen in video.
Games to this point.
They would agree.
They look exactly like flesh and blood human beings, and they're all conjured up in a computer. They're not real and it's just man, it's mind blowing to watch this video. So your link on X or how do people find you on X Dave so they can see this?
You can easily find me on LinkedIn if you see the search on Dave Hatter or X search on Dave Hatter or at Dave Hatter. I'm on Facebook, although I'm not a huge Facebook fan and I generally only use it to promote things like this, But the ex would be the easiest place because you know, you can just go on there search, I'll post this, and yeah, people really need to see it. They need to share it, not only with their kids who might not realize how far this is progressed, and how this could be used
for things like sextortion scams. But I think even more importantly, you know elderly people, parents, grandparents, because my big concern about all this part Jeff I mean it runs the gamut of you know, propaganda by trying to disrupt elections with videos that look like some candidates says something. But my real concern at the moment is the scam power of this. You know, one of the clips in there is, you know, a young girl saying, no, Grandma, I don't
need your money. I haven't been kidnapped. I'm AYI you know that sort of thing. These are well documented scams that are playing out right now. You can go to any law enforcement source and find folks like the FBI or local law enforcement warning about the grandparent scams. And I'm using voice cloning technology and this type of thing
to create very realistic scams. And again, it's so important for people to see this, to realize that we are now in a place, thanks to this technology where you really can't believe your ears or eyes anymore, and you need to slow down, take a breath, and then vet anything that you're getting through some other source, or you are very all victim to this type of technology, which is only going to improve.
So, I mean, it's one thing to have a pair of virtual reality glasses and live in a world that's not real. It's quite another to be sent to a video on your phone and it looks like your child has been kidnapped, is handcuffed in some kind of hotel room or some kind of barn somewhere, saying Mommy, Daddy, they're holding me, and it looks just like your kid.
It sounds just like your kid. This is what you're warning about, Dave, And I think it is a good first word heads up for folks on what's out there and what's going to be available out there in the very very short term if it's not there. Now, did you ever did you ever invest in a pair of VR glasses? I certainly didn't because I didn't want to be that disoriented.
I've used them, I have never actually bought any myself, because the idea of having that on my face is not it's not for me.
No, No, I'm with you on that.
So this technology can be deadly and it can lead to some terrible outcomes. And you were describing the case of a team that committed suicide because of these sextortion scams that are out there.
Yeah, sextortion continues to be a thing. It's not new, it's been around for a while, but you know, it's a good segue from the last topic, because now you have these very powerful generative ani tools that can generate photos and videos that look incredibly real. And you know, one of the points I wanted to make, like we talked a little bit about the grandparent scam, when people say, well, you know, I'm not a celebrity, how would you get
my voice or how would you get my image? Well, are there any photos of you online anywhere on your company website? You know, does your granddaughter postpotos of herself on Instagram or Snapchat or something else? And my point being is, you know, sadly many of us are now exposed to this kind of threat because there are photos, there is video, there is audio of us out there. I tell people all the time when they say, well, how can I get voice clubes? I don't use social media,
I'm not famous. Do you have a voice greeting on your voicemail? If I call your phone, is there a recording of you telling me hey, I'm not available or something like that, Well, I can use that to clone
your voice. And this sextortion thing, unfortunately continues to show up in the news because it appears to be primarily targeted to teenage boys at this point, and every time I see one of these tragic, terrible stories as a parent, you know, I think it's just so tragic, it's so horrible, and I also think, thank God none of this existed when I was a teenager, Gary Jeff. But also as a parent who still has a one teenage son, you know, I worry about this sort of thing. Talk with him
about it extensively. I share these kind of articles with him all the time, because you know, even if they can't talk you into some compromising photos that you have taken of yourself as a teenage boy, they can use this sort of technology like Google, VEO three or others out there to create false deep take images with the goal to extort you. And in this particular case, I'll just read real quick. Elijah Hancock was a vibrant team who made people smile. He wasn't depressed, he wasn't said,
he wasn't angry. Father John Burnett told CBS Saturday Morning, but he received a threatening text with an AI generated nude photo himself, demanding he paid three thousand dollars to keep it from being sent to friends and family, and shortly thereafter he sadly and tragically killed himself. And this
is not the first example of this. Again, sometimes kids don't seem to understand that the fourteen year old girl you think you're talking to online is a thirty seven year old dude living in his mom's space, right, So, I mean, sometimes this is a case of human beings luring children into these sorts of situations where they can
then be extorted. But sadly, now, thanks to this AI technology we're talking about, you know, if I can just find one photo, I can feed it into one of these tools and I can use this to exploit people. So I think it's so important to warn your kids, and you know, also tell them like, hey, if this happens to you, the first thing you need to do is come to me. We need to get law enforcement involved, We need to get out in front of this. You know,
you should not kill yourself. But I mean, I just can imagine the psychological damage the scum that are behind this are doing to these kids, even if they don't tragically kill themselves. I mean, it's so despicable and sick. It's really hard to even get your mind around.
Well, Dave, you're a if you're a grown man and you're trying to find a fourteen year old girl online. You get what you deserve, a man.
Before we run out of time, Gary, Yeah, I did just want to give out one statistic because I think people don't understand how prevalent this is. So Again, from the same article, reports of the scheme have skyrocketed sextortion. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children said it received within five hundred thousand reports of sextortion scams targeting miners in just the last year. At least twenty people have taken their own lives because of sex dortion scams
since twenty twenty one. The Federal Bureau of Investigation estimates five hundred thousand in one year of these despicable scum targeting kids that try to extort money out of them and basically ruin their young lives with this garbage. And that's why it's so important to keep reiterating this story and getting parents and grandparents and kids to understand that this is a thing.
I saw one of the things that you sent me, Dave, and I wanted to ask you about it before we do run out of time.
Tonight, we got a few more minutes this story.
On reclaim the net about you being guilty by algorithm?
Can you explain that real quick?
I can. It's pretty disturbing. Facial recognition, not new, continues to be used in all kinds of interesting and I would argue disturbing ways unless you happen to be a fan of nineteen eighty four and the panopticon world we've created now where you're under constant surveillance, whether it's ring doorbell cameras or someone's cell phone or CCTV cameras would have popped up everywhere. But apparently reading from this article, a guy named Tiber Miles was accused of a twenty
twenty one murder of a guy named Ahmad McPherson. And as it goes on to say, you know, the central piece of evidence, not finger prints, not an eyewitness, a facial recognition hit from a system so secretive the government will won't even tell the defense what it is, how it works, or whether it's more accurate than a drunk dark throw. So basically they had someone claim this guy did it, that the accused, and a guy that has
been identified by this facial recognition. They cops apparently went out found some photos of this guy dumped it into this system, it said he did it, and they went out and arrested it. And while you know, there have been lots of problems and concerns about facial recognition for a long long time, and that's well documented. But the idea that you could be essentially accused by facial recognition and then they won't even show your defense team. You know,
all software has problems scaring jet all software. Anyone that doesn't understand that obviously has never built it like I did for twenty five years. But the idea that you're going to be accused and potentially spend your life in prison for a murder and you can't challenge the algorithm. You know, does it have implicit bias? How do you know it works right? What's its false positive and what's
its false negative rate? Yeah? I find this story extremely disturbing, and I'm glad you brought it up because people need to understand this kind of thing is going on. We need as a society to get out in front of it. I don't the genie is out of the bottle. I don't think we're going to put facial recognition back, but I think any government that's using it in a way
that can accuse you of a crime. As a result, needs to be able to show, you know, what is the confidence rate or how competent can you be that it is actually producing correct results. And the fact that they won't even talk about it because it's some sort of you know, law enforcement secret or something to me is extremely scary.
Yeah, you're right, this is your right out of nineteen eighty four, George, orwell, so you're guilty because of facial wreck, not not any other evidence.
Well, there is someone who accused him of doing this, right, but yeah, you know, at this point there's an accusation that he's the guy, and then the facial recognition says, yep, he's the guy, and that currently understands. You know, we'll see how this works out in the court system. I
think this is a story worth paying attention to. I'll post this link tonight too, so people can you get this information to see for themselves all three of these days, the Google BeO link, the sex doors and link and social media so people.
Can go to just go to add Dave had her on x and they can see these posts day. Okay, thank you very much, Thank you very much for sharing him by the way, Happy Father's Day. Are There big plans tomorrow at the hat Her household for.
Dad, And as far as I know, the kids are going to come over here and my Dad's going to come over and we're just going to kind of hang out hopefully have a nice day.
Yeah, isn't it great to have dad still around? My dad is still hanging in there too, like a hair and a grilled cheese sandwich. He'll be eighty nine at the end of October, God willing, he's he's in the hospital right now in Middle Tennessee and hopefully he'll get out in the next couple of days. Some breathing issues. But you know, I'm so lucky to have my dad and my mom.
Yeah, I'll say a prayer for him. And now my dad's going to be ninety five in August, so yeah, very fortunate as well. Wow, if you're listening to my dad, love your happy Father's Day.
That's great. Dave Hatter, thank you so much. We'll talk soon.
My friend Dave Hatter joining us on this special Saturday night. There is more to come, Yes, there's more. Another hour. I've got to fill up and up next. Joe Evermore, who was the mountain climbing dad who takes his four sons, well, at least three of the sons. I think the fourth son is only about three or four months old, now up mountains some pretty high ranges and has a new
movie coming out. And we'll talk about all of that after the news at eleven o'clock, Gary Jeff with you on a Saturday Night on seven hundred WLW into another hour of this Saturday night cap our special show on Father's Day Week on seven hundred WLW, and our next guest is a father. He's like an incredible father. I love this guy's story about I don't know, six eight months ago. Maybe I don't know if it's that long. Yeah,
it was about six eight months ago. I had my first chance to interview Joe evermore, and what sparked my imagination was the story of what he does for a living and what he does with his family.
He and his wife.
Anne have four really wild boys and they rage an age. I guess, well, I'll get the rundown on Joe because I lose track of time here, and they're older than the last time we talked, and the fact that they're older is kind of a wonder when you see or hear what they do together as a family. They climb mountains like Big Mountain, like El Capitan and some others
that we'll talk about tonight. But our primary focus tonight with Joe Evermore is what being a father and what parenting is all about, and what he's trying to instill in his kids. And I think it's the coolest story that I know these days. In twenty twenty five, Joe Evermore, Welcome back to the show.
How are you, my friend?
Hey, excited to be here. It's gonna be fun, yeah.
Exactly, not as fun as climbing a mountain, but you know, we do what we can, so first and foremost, I understand from when we were talking to set up this interview, you're getting your movie made. You got the money to do your movie, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, we're making a really cool film about the three big mountains we're climbing this year. And it was scary at the beginning, but it's all been funded now, so now we can move forward.
That's fantastic. You guys have posted a lot of stuff. I mean, I can find you on if you folks, if you type in Joe Evermore, And just like it sounds. There's all kinds of pictures of he and his wife and their kids. And for people who never heard the interview before, dad, let's let's run down all of the children and their ages, their names, which are very cool, and some of their accomplishments to this point.
The oldest is a Stamuel Adventure and he's eleven, all right, and he's as a firstborn, and he's kind of like kind of set the stage. And there's quite a few mountains that he's the youngest to climb. The most notable one was when he climbed out Cavitan at eight. But he's been really kind of setting new records, working on some big projects. And this summer will be our second attempt at the Matterhorn, and so we're we're looking at doing that, you know, right at the very end of the summer.
Now, how big is the matter Horn? Just to put it in perspective for people who maybe not are in the climbing community, but are just in all of the kind of activities that you guys are doing. How what's the height of the matterhorn and what are the challenges of the matter Horn.
I don't know the exact tid.
It's a fourteen ers. I think it's almost fifteen thousand feet.
Wow.
But the matter Horn is a first of all, it's one of the most breathtaking mountains you'll ever see. It's probably the most famous mountain in the world. It's a put everywhere. Once you understand what it is, you're like, oh, I see that everyway. It's even in the Disney logo. But it's like it's got four ridges on it. It's like a big diamond. And those ridges are like nice blades, and they're like, you know, you like as a climber,
you just want to get on one of them. But the thing is about the Matterhorn is that in the morning, like at like ten o'clock in the morning, in most days, you can't even fly a kite at the top. Where is it like four o'clock, it could be white out with hunter mile in our winds. And if you go off route on this route you will likely die. And so it's like it's a very you know, precarious mountain if you get off route. And and so it's a it's a big deal to climb the matter Horn.
It's not.
It's nothing to definitely be respected.
Now have you climbed it yourself. I know you said that you're gonna get Sam with you to try and attempt it. Have you done it yourself, Joe.
Well, this will be our second attempt. Last year we tried it and we got within twelve hundred feet of the summit and we hit a cutoff time. We got we got to the soul the hut about a few minutes late, and so we decided to not go for the summit. We did go a little bit higher on the mountain, but because of that missing that cutoff time, we turned back.
All right. The next the next in line Sun is what eight or nine?
Yep?
Then we got an eight year old and what's what's his name when we take his name is Sylvan light Year. The god was kind of leading us to say that this kid is going to be on a really big scale, and a light year is six trillion miles, so he definitely lives up to that. He's eight, he's going to be climbing El Capitan this year. He's getting already and geared up for that. And each of our boys are going to climb El Capitan at eight. My plan.
So Sam and Sylvan have climbed mountains together, right, Oh, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and then this summer or when or when we do El Capitan, what we're gonna do is we're gonna have Sam on the rigging crew. So he's going to be leading pitches and hauling and he's got a lot of responsibility and some new misery to face on this mountain that he's never done before. And Sylvan's gonna be spent in six days, you know, like living on the side of the o a rock. Uh, it's an intense thing.
Yeah, I mean did they did they take to it away? I mean, you figure the apple doesn't fall far in all of that, like father like son, But were they just like like for example, when I was maybe three months old, my parents just they were with me, but they took me into a pool and you know, and I was swimming, you know, at before I could before I could walk.
But did they take to it like right away?
It is a little bit like that in our home. It's kind of a prerequisite. You you crawl, you walk, and then you rock climb, and so it's kind of like your family, so it's climbing is a normal thing. It's like it's actually a lot of people unlearn it and it's it's something we naturally develop as kids, and it's it's very fun, and you know, it's a great aerobic activity, and it's you know, it exercises so many parts of your kind of inner self that you know, it's a it's like perfect for kids.
And yeah, they all take to it. I think I think most kids would take to it. Now you're third boy, what's what's his name?
That's the one to look out for. That's Joey Danger. And Joey's only we started five and he's six now, and so he's only done one huge mountain. He's got another huge one this year. But what I'll tell you a story about Joey. The other day, I was down and we have a little pond on the edge of our property and we like to have like little campfires out there, and so I told Joey to go up and get some matches that are lighter, and he couldn't find one.
So what does he do.
He finds an Amazon box and lights it on the stove and then runs through the house with this flaming torch and then all the way and by the time it gets down to the fire pits, man, this thing is a blaze and Uh, yeah, that's he's a very creative little guy.
But you look up.
He didn't burn himself, did he.
No, he didn't burn himself, but it was it was quite uh yelling, look out, I got the fire coming down the hill.
Just being in that house for one day, I might go nuts. Joe, that's great.
Oh yeah, it's like having a few like bobcats in the house.
And and your youngest boy is just what months old, blaze months old?
Wild he is. I think we're coming up once seven months. And so he's just a cuddly little guy, just barely rolling over and U two and when we in tickling, you know, so we're just cuddling him a lot. Yeah, he's not mountain climbing.
We wait till they're five. So your wife and your wife and you met climbing. Is that how you met?
Yep?
Well we we kind of saw in love climbing and we I invited her on this trip to Wyoming and there was a mountain called Wolfshead that we spent the night under the summit block just because I was moving too slow as a party and got cold and I couldn't figure out the route, and so we just kind of hunkered down, and it was then I was like, Wow, this girl's pretty awesome. I can I think she could keep up with me.
Yeah, and you've been together for what I guess twelve thirteen years or.
I think it's fourteen years.
Congratulation.
We just had our anniversary a couple of days ago, and yeah, I've got a great wife and she's on board with this. And what she understands is that men need their dad and that there's a point in the journey where a man leaves the mother and then goes into the world of men and learns from men and grows an apprenticeship with men. And honestly, it's a hard thing for a lot of women. Very few women do
it well. But my wife has done. It's been so great eight and in giving me the handoff, and she's the kind of woman who's like, you know, she breastfeeds basically until the baby weans himself, and so she's really she almost like an attachment mom. So she's very attached to these little boys. And then you know, there's a point where they leave the world of mom and now they're interested in dad. And that's a big part of our journey that you know, they've each gone through.
It's an excellent way to explain it. So, I mean, there are separate roles. This is this is something that some parts of our society just doesn't get, Joe, and I'm not going to get into all the political ins and outs of this, but there is a role for men in society, in human nature, there's a role for women, and I think you guys have those very well defined from how you're describing this, and I just think it's so beautiful and it's so natural that you both both have this understand well, it's.
Important that we all understand that men and women are different right now, that they're not just two androgynous beings, but like they're we're very different and we bring different things to the table. We bring different things to our marriage and to our family that these boys need and you don't, like, you know, with the statistics are so clear, a home without a father, your likelihood of going to
jail is like astronomically higher. You know, eighty percent of the inmates in jail where grew up in father less owns and the other twenty percent usually are claiming some kind of an abusive father in the home. And there's you know, so many statistics about like, you know, girls and the promiscuity. Like number one, you know, connection to a girl being sexually active early is her relationship with
her father, you know, or how absent he was. And there's clear indication that a father is necessary in a home. And and really what happens is when you have a father in the home, it's a loving father. You then don't have a toxic mother, which is another big contributor to what you know, blows apart these kids and leaves them all confused about their life and there, you know, and their identity and all of that. You know, it's these kids need a mother and.
A father, absolutely, you know.
And I'm so blessed to have had both a mother and father in the home the whole time. My mom and dad are still together, Joe evermore after six after sixty seven years, Wow, my.
Dad will be eighty nine.
I've been telling folks he's he's actually in the hospital for Father's Day and it's a damn shame that I can't be with him because he's down in Middle Tennessee where they live, in a hospital.
He'll be out in the next couple of days. So we're planning a trip.
But Dad's so important, and what what do you want to teach your boys as a father? What what are the what are the main tenets of what you're trying to get across to them in the way you live and the way you play and the way you work. What's most important for Joe evermore to impart to his four sons.
Yeah, so in masculine formation, it's really character formation. But you can't just teach a kid about things like you can't just say, like I'm going to read your book about courage or I'm going to read your book about like, you know, humility. You actually have to like help them discover these things. And a good father is always architecting an environment for that kind of discovery. And that's what I'm after in the climbing is that, like it's I want, you know, very early on, I want my kids to
develop what we were in our house. We just call it self regulation. You know, that's like that control over your emotions. And it's like the first it's like kind of level one like of growing. And then once you get that, then really once they self regulate, then you can still to build real self confidence where they have that inner strength where someone if someone's teasing them, they just know who they are and it doesn't it like
it's like they have armor against it. Because they have that self confidence, they begin to find they know that they have a strength that's unique to.
The world, you know.
And then out of that you begin to see things like courage come out, you know, and these other self disciplines. And it's you know, each of those and many others, is the role of a father to architect a world where the boys can really learn and grow and mature into you know, giants.
You know.
I want these boys to be little like uh, you know, warrior poets that know who they are and can go out into the world world and face a problem and you know, they say, I don't I don't really know how how I'm gonna do this problem. But there was a time when I stood up and looked at up at El Capitan and it looked about a million miles high, and we did it together, you know. And so it's out of those experiences that a strong, confident, you know, boy is built.
Uh Man.
I could listen to you talk about this all night when we just have a couple of minutes left. Joe Evermore, Do you have a working title for the movie?
Well, we're talking about against the Sky. It's kind of like when you're working on a muscle, you put your muscle against a weight. You know, we've we're kind of like developing these boys. The weight is against gravity, it's against the sky. It's and uh, it's it's gonna come out next year, hopefully on the Angel platform, is what we're shooting for. And you know we're going to get it on some of the streaming platforms.
All right, Uh, you'll have to let me know when it's coming out so I can have you back on and we can publicize it. Because I think it's something that not only anybody who's into climbing, but anybody who is into parenting and family and adventure an adventure should see. And I can't wait to see it myself, Joe Evermore.
In the meantime, yes, they should follow my son on social media. Just look up Samuel Adventure on Instagram and give us a follow their.
All right, fantastic, certainly will Joe Evermore, It's not my bag, but man, you make me want to be into climbing.
Is it okay?
And there you want to come to Colorado. We'll take you.
Is it too late at the age of sixty four? I know you start him young.
Let's go. You're gonna You're gonna be fine. You got tons of path ahead. Yeah, we'll put you on an easy one, all right.
Joe, Thanks, Happy Father's Day. Happy Father's Day.
Joe Evermore and his amazing climbing mountain climbing family.
Wow.
If you could bottle what he said and give it to every prospective father, they'd have a really, really neat path to success with their sons, I believe. Up next, we will rerun this morning's rock and Roll Archaeology, paying tribute to both sly Stone and Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys, Me and the music professor Jim LaBarbara. If you missed it this morning, hear it next on this special Saturday night cap on seven hundred WLW