Coming to you from Studio A here at proven Winners Color Choice shrubs. You don't have to hear it through the grapevine. You can get it right here on The Gardening Simplified Show with Stacey Hervella me, Rick weisst and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Well, Stacey, I'm not going to bury the lead. I'm going to go right for it here today we feature evergreens and also herbs. Evergreens at this time of the year, of course, are
most loved. You think of Otanenbaum, Oh Christmas tree, how lovely are your branches? Or I think of Barbara Streisand singing the song Evergreen. Remember that song that is not a song I know? Actually ever this time? Yeah, beautiful Evergreen. She would sing ageless and ever Ever, which from a star is born in nineteen seventy six movie Barbara Streisand with Chris Christofferson, and it was a remake or adapted from a nineteen fifty four musical starring Judy
Garland. Okay, we got our music segment out of the way. Here today, evergreens can be a diverse range of both broad leafed and coniferous trees. And shrubs that retain their foliage over winter. A coniferous evergreen has needle like foliage, A broad leaf evergreen has wider foliage and in many cases spectacular
blooms. But evergreens provide that continuity in our landscape. To provide structure in your landscape, we use them for tall hedges, mid size hedges, low hedges, groundcovers, upright accents, globe accents, specimen plants, foundation plants, which are the bones of the landscape, and then of course even flowering like broad leafs, rhododendrons, et cetera. Stacey, you'd have to say,
evergreens are an important part of our landscapes. There is no landscape that's complete without some evergreen, I would say, even if you live in a warm climate, because they still go dormant and you need some evergreen there to keep the landscape looking interesting all season long. Yeah, exactly. And why do we love evergreens? Of course, this is the time of the year
when evergreens take center stage. We love evergreens. I guess we get to thank the sixteenth century Germans for cutting trees and bringing them inside the house and
starting that whole Christmas tradition. As a matter of fact, I was reading the first records of Christmas trees being cut for home display in the US comes from the eighteen twenties in Pennsylvania's German community, and then by the eighteen nineties, Christmas ornaments were arriving from Germany and Christmas tree popularity was on the rise. So another reason that evergreens are top of mind this time of the year,
and probably not a good way. I was reading an article from the National Library of Medicine that said Christmas tree syndrome, respiratory and skin allergies to conifers occur in seven percent of people, mold and pollen mold allergy thirteen percent of people. So not everybody embraces cutting an evergreen tree and dragging it inside. That we got to go back to that pollen thing for a second time.
I understand that pollen is absolutely an allergen. It's intended to be that way, because you know, from a plant perspective, pollen should not stick on to things, but you know it should be up in the air or on insects and conifers such that we use for Christmas. Trees are wind pollinated, but by the time Christmas rolls around. Pollen is a ghost of Christmas
pass as it were. There is no pollen around. The tree has been well past flowering, doesn't have any flower buds on it because they've been trimmed, and any pullin that was flying around. I mean most of them flower like in March. So Fallon's a done deal by that point. Yeah, well, you know it's a thing. It's right there in that study. And I'm not polling your leg. Yeah, okay, So let's talk about the benefits of evergreens. They smell good all year long, continuity through the
season, so they give us interest twelve months out of the year. In structure, they tend to be low maintenance, energy efficiency for your home or privacy. They provide hedging, bird and wildlife, cover and sanctuary, a foundational backdrop for color, oxygen, boundary, delineation, specimen beauty. In other words, four seasons of interest. A wind block, they muffle noise,
they create a screen or a microclian. These are hard workers. I really do want to go back to the wildlife thing, because, yeah, if you are a burder or you want to welcome birds in your yard, it is so important to have a mix of evergreen and deciduous plants. There are lots of birds that prefer to hang out in evergreens, and they provide
coverage from above. So if there's hawks about things like that, and you know, I have a whole lot of chickadees in my yard right now, taking full advantage of my two pine trees as well as all the deciduous stuff that's out there. So it's an important part of making your yard welcoming. Well, yeah, it's a good point. Stay see, this time of the year, the landscape is rather bare, and so when you have evergreens to kind of hide out in, maybe protect from the wind. Of course,
wildlife love evergreens. We all love evergreens. I feel a limb a rick coming on. Here we go otan and baum and evergreen. My natural winter dopamine right here in my neighborhood. The reason you smell so good, you're not polypropylene. My car's pine tree freshener is scented to mask what has fermented. It hangs from my rear view mirror, allows me to breathe much clearer. One of the great things ever invented. I love those little pine
trees. That's a good one. Thank you like that. Well, you know, evergreens give you a return on investment if you think about it. With deciduous trees, every year, they got to put out this energy to create all this foliage, then manufacture all summer, and then drop that foliage in winter and the process starts all over again next year. Evergreens don't necessarily photosynthesize all winter. They can, but they don't necessarily photosynthesize all winter.
But they can handle harsher climates, mountainous climates because the foliage is there, ready to serve when the time is right. And that's the amazing thing about evergreens is that they're so adaptable even to harsh conditions. Yeah, and you know, I think that it's important that people know that evergreens aren't actually evergreen exactly. They do lose their leaves, so they don't keep the same foliage for their entire lives. Eventually, the foliage becomes less effective at photosynthesis.
Dust pollen, indeed, when it's around, covers the foliage and makes them less effective at photosynthesis. So depending on the plant, they lose their oldest leaves every year every two years, and a lot of people freak out when they see it, because they think that something's happening, But it's just anytime that foliage is turning yellow, it indicates that the plant is translocating the chlorophyll saying, Hey, I'm gonna store this all this good stuff up in here.
I'm not just going to drop it on the ground. I'm going to take all that energy. I'm going to store it within me, and then I'm going to drop these. So that's what the yellowing or browning, you know, signifies. But you know, it usually happens in fall, and people get a little bit freaked out, but it's totally normal. And I always tell people when they are, you know, like, oh, is
this okay? If it's within the body of the plant and not at the tips of the branches where the new growth is coming from, you probably don't have anything to worry about. Agree, And of course it depends on the species. Also, if you have, for example, white pine or state tree here in the state of Michigan, it will do that pretty much every year, and I think it sheds what it's second year needles or third year needles whatever. And then you look at a bristle cone pine maybe thirty forty
fifty years, but so not all evergreens are created equally. But you're right, they will shed the needles. They're also very good and adapted to shedding snow. The branches tend to be flexible, bendy, they tend to swoop downward, and that helps these trees of course, ride out the winter well, especially the conifers. So less so is some of the broad leaf everage. It's not so great with the snow coverage, but certainly, you know
the pines or spruces, the furs. Just looking at them, you can tell those branches are really designed to take that snowload, and they look so good. They don't look tortured. You know, if you see a plant that's not supposed to take a snowload all covered in snow is like e yikes. But when you see a con you're like, oh yeah, let's write a home, no problem, exactly exactly. And then of course you have the large conifers, which are totally confused because they drop all their needles.
But we'll save that for another show. Stacey with proven winners Color Choice Shrubs. I love a lot of the evergreens that are available for people to use in their landscape. Tater tot arborvite comes to mind right away, Celtic pride. I love that Siberian cypress in my landscape, full speed, a hedge stonehenge taxis, and of course on a show last year, we talked about tortuga juniper. Oh yeah, I love my junipers. All fantastic for your
landscape. So we embrace evergreens, not only at this time of the year, but of course year round and evergreens, my friends, are the gift that keeps giving. Coming up next, Plants on Trial. We'll see what Stacey has on our mind today. That's next here on the Gardening Simplified Ship. Prooven Winners Colored Choice Shrubs cares about your success in the garden. That's why we trial and test all of our shrubs for eight to ten years,
making sure they outperform everything else on the market. Look for them and the distinctive white container at your local garden center. Greetings, gardening friends, and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show. You know I'm going to get right into it and just say that today's plant on trial is Castle Spire Blue Holly. Okay, and the reason that I'm just coming around you usually I get
a long preamble here, because it's not going to be a preamble. It's gonna be a post amble because I've got so much to say about this plant that kind of I think it's the background is so fascinating and I really want to share it as we talk about evergreens, so I might not fully get
back around to telling you how amazing Castle spire blue holly specifically is. We are going to be talking about holly and heartiness and broad leaf evergreens, so you know, like you're saying in the first segment, most people, when they think of evergreens, what comes to mind, the sort of stereotypical picture in their head is going to be a pine tree, pine, a spruce, a for you know, people tend to use pine trees as sort of the ketch all for all conifers. But I have that all the time.
People will say to me, can you come to my house? I'm having a problem with my pine tree, and it ends up being something completely different. Right, We use that term loosely, like kleenex or like you know, when you go in the South and they say, what kind of coke do you want? Yeah? Something, So you know, it kind of
becomes a ketch all. But like you said, these conifers which most people think of as evergreens and are typically evergreens, so like you said, larch and medicinqoia, there's some exceptions in there are either need a leaft so think of like a pine or scale leaft like a juniper or arborviidy where we've talked about this before. They kind of almost look like under like seaweed or coral
or something like that. But yeah, broad leaf evergreens is a term that you know, when someone's not familiar with it and you say, oh, well, are you interested in broad leaf evergreens or whatever, they have to kind of stop for a minute and say what is that? And a broad leaf evergreen is exactly what it sounds like, an evergreen, but the leaves
are wide broad instead of needle like or scill like and very narrow. So we're talking about all the adaptations that conifers and things have for cold wintry weather, and those vastly reduced leaf surfaces, just as needles or scales are one of them. So like for example, a pine, the needles are in little bundles, and when it's very cold, the pine responds by bringing that
bundle together and reducing the leaf surface. So it's just the outside of each needle in those center, those other edges, they all come together into a little bundle. It's just one of those adaptations. The numbers strength and numbers reduce that surface area. So broad leaf evergreens tend not to be quite as cold tolerant as your need a leaf or scale leafed evergreen. Just like you
were saying that having that broad leaf surface means two things. It means that there is a lot more surface area for water to evaporate off of, and that catches the sun and a lot of repeated you know sun cold it can. Yeah, when it's just it causes the plant a lot of stress. But that said, if you are in say USDA Zone four or five, even six, we definitely have some very popular broad leaf evergreens. You know,
I think I grew up in a neighborhood. I think I've said this before, where rhododendrons were like the front front yard planting the queen, Like everybody had a rhododendron. Why because the front yards tended to be near the house, tended to be shady, So a rhododendron is a perfect example of a broad leaf evergreen because it is evergreen and indeed its leaves are quite broad. Cherry laurel is another one not totally hardy for us, so we done
out to grow a lot of it. But if you sort of get more towards the southeast, skip laurel or cherry laurel is a very popular plant. Boxwood sure rings about and boxwood is everywhere, and it's another great example of sort of what these you know, potential liabilities of a broad leaf evergreen are in a cold climate, because how many people when spring comes along are looking at a boxwood that doesn't really look all that great because they can be very
susceptible to all of these challenges. Now, one of the classic, most beautiful, most desirable broad leaf evergreens is holly. And you know, of course that comes from you know last year you talked about the oak King and the holly king. If you ever look at like any Victorian Christmas cards or Christmas decorations, holly is a key part of that. And even if you never do that, if you sing any Christmas song or can bring to mind any Christmas song, like I mean half of them have to mention holly,
right, it's that it's that popular. Yes, yeah, the holly jolly. There's we could go on all day about plants and Christmas girls. That would be a fun episode actually, and you can sing, so you could give us a little bit to go. I have tried to sing, but holly. So when the holly that is typically mentioned in these in these songs in Christmas lore is English holly Ilex aquafolium a very cool plant. It if you, you know, look up a picture of it, it looks like
that classic holly. The leaves are very spiny, the berries are very red, the foliage is dark, glossy. The thing about English holly is it's not hardy. It's about a USDA Zone seven at best plant. And some of the variegated varieties of English holly are even less so. So not a plant that most of the US could grow. For many years, And there was a woman named Kathleen meeserv who lived on Long Island and really loved using
holly for decorating. And you know what, I'm not content to just be told no, I can't grow English holly, or it just keeps getting winter damage. So even though she had no real experience. She was just a
home gardener. She went into her backyard and started making crosses, and she took English holly, I like Sackapuliam, and crossed it with a bunch of different Asian species, so transferring the pollen of one onto the other and planting those out and testing them against the winters out on Long Island, and she
eventually developed the plant that we now know as blue holly. And what most of us in colder parts of the US, when we think of an evergreen holly, it is the plant that we think of that is the holly that we grow. So blue girl, Blue Boy, China Girl, China Boy. There's all of these, all of these different ones, and they were all created by this woman who just took it on herself in the nineteen fifties to say, I'm not content with my options for holly. I want the
best of English holly, and I'm going to get it. And she did it. That's interesting, And she was for a time, Kathleen me serv owned the most plant patents out of anybody in the entire US wow as an amateur plant breeder. So it's it's a I love this story because I think it really speaks to how a determined person can make something happen, and that the spirit of risk that we talk so much about in everything that we talk about is like, well, just give it a try. You know.
The steaks are relatively entrepreneur Yeah. So Castle Spire was not developed by Kathleen me Serve, but it is also a me Serve holly. So if you were to look at the tag of these plants, you'll see that the species on there, instead of being Ilex aquafolium or Ilex opeka or whatever, it's going to say ilex an x, which is cross Mesurvey because the whole genus was named for Kathleen me Serf. So Castle Spier is a blue holly that
came from Germany. It became so popular that it spread all over the world, and a lot of the original Blue Girl China Girl hollies are a little bit more kind of columnar, and Castle Spire has a very very strong, pure middle habit, and people love that for an evergreen in their landscape.
You know, we didn't talk a whole lot about the habits of evergreens, but I think that's one of the things that so appeals to people, and especially at this time of year if you're driving around and you know, I am not the world's biggest fan of dwarfelbertas Bruce by any stretch, but right now I have to confess. When someone's putting Christmas lights on them, they work perfect. It's like that was the only reason they were invented, was
to make a good scaffolding for Christmas. Careful and to a track spider mights, of course, but they're pure middle and we love that pure middle shape, yes, exactly, and that great, that appealing shape. So Castle spire gets to be about eight to ten feet tall and three to five feet wide, so it's going to have that nice narrow footprint, so it's a good space saver. It's a great hedging plant. Now, you know, we talk a lot about arborvidy or juniper for hedges, and those are great
choices, but they're not what everybody wants. Some people do want that look of a broad leaf evergreen. And the hardiness of all of the blue hollies is USCA zone five to seven. So Kathleen me sort of managed to bring the hardiness down hold two full zones and still have a lot of the best qualities of English holly, and that's what you're going to see in castle spire. So it is a female, you're going to need to plant the male
castle wall if you want those red berries. One male for every five to seven females should be sufficient and you can plant them anywhere within fifty feet of each other to make sure that there's berries on the females, or if it's a hedge, I think you can get away with intermixing the males. But sometimes if it's a really prominent front yard planning people want to kind of tuck the males away. Having worked in a garden center for years, that's a
question a lot of people ask. They see it's a big thing for people trying to figure out how do I get these hollies to pollen? Yep. So that was a lot of information and there's a lot more I could say because I think they're really cool plants. And again I love that story and I think that when you have that extra reason to love them, it just makes you want to plant them even more. But you are definitely going to be best planted in spring, so they have all seasons to get established.
So add this to your planting list for when you shop at the garden center this spring. And if you would like to see pictures and get all the details about Castle Spier Blue Holly, you will find that at Gardening Simplified on Air dot com. In the show notes, we got to take a little break because that was a whole lot of information about holly that no one asked for. Button now you know, and when we come back, we've got the garden mail bag, so please stay tuned. At proven winner's color choice,
we've got a shrub for every taste and every space. Whether you're looking for an easycare rose and unforgettable hydrangea, or something new and unique, you can be confident that the shrubs and the white containers have been trying out and tested for your success. Look for them at your local garden center. Greetings, gardening friends, and welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show. It's one
of my favorite times of the week where we answer your gardening questions. If you have a gardening question for us, you can reach us at help HLP at Gardening Simplified on air dot com, or just visit Gardening Simplified on Air dot com and you can leave us a link a message through our contact form as Jean did, and I believe that Jeane uh wanted to maybe perhaps fund the Rick Fanclub because she has glowing praise for you. Well, she says,
just wanted to give a shout out to Rick. I've watched so many gardeners talk about shredding leaves for the most wonderful compost. I have the leaves, for sure, but my mower doesn't have a bagger. So I tried mowing through them and raking them up, lots of work with little to show for it. Then Rick talked about how he used as weed eater in a trash can. I thought I'd give it a try my eye goggles and went to work. I started with a few in a tub and it worked so
well. I used it in a wheelbarrow already filled with leaves. What a gold mine. I covered two raised beds and the rest I spread in a flower bed. I am fully expecting bumper crops of flowers next summer. So thank you very much. Rick's speaking your language. I love it. Gene, thank you so much for that note. I appreciate and I appreciate the fact that safety first you put on the eye goggles. Maybe even some earplugs and you grind those things up and boy, oh boy, is that beautiful
for the landscape. Way to go. Jean. Yeah, I'm really glad that that worked out. I wonder if anybody else tried it, So if you did try it, let us know. I have to say, when you were describing it, I was sitting right here next to you, and I was like, okay, but uh, you know, now youveay, you know. And I appreciate Geene doing this because when I would do it,
my neighbors would be watching. I'd see them peeking through the windows and I'm wearing eye goggles and I'm out there doing this and they think I've lost it, when the reality is it's pure genius. So thank you, Gene. I appreciate that so much. Yeah, so great, any Al. I love about this is that you only need one tool, you know. It's it's great when you can have a tool that you already own and use
it for a completely novel and unexpected purpose like this. So and then once that works, Gene, you're gonna want to step up to the churninator. I've got one of those, my Ernold Schwarzenegger churninator. And then you're on a whole new level. So it is like one invention that gets the next You got it? All right, What do we got in the mailbag this week? John from Ada would like to know if there's anything at this time of the year to support a lack of weeds in the spring in our flower
beds and then birds exclamation Yeah, that's my answer. Oh yes, I put it in the notes, thank you, and then it does have two exclamation points, because that's the best possible solution here is birds. And I find that all the time. So one of the reasons that my yard is so full of birds. I put out to it and feed them as well.
But I love to leave all of that stuff in my garden and the birds just pick around, and with the freezing and thawing and the ground heaving and moving through the winter, that keeps bringing up new seeds for them to eat. And I think that birds are the best organic weed control that we have. You just have to have a scenario or a situation where they feel welcome enough to come in so there's not any cats roaming around or you know,
other things that would make them feel and safe. You've got plenty of coverage for them in the form of evergreens and shrubs and places where they can perch and flee if they don't feel safe. But bird, I honestly, I often think about what my landscape would look like if I didn't have so many birds working on weed control. For me, I mean, it's bad enough as it is, so without their help, I shudder think I truly
do. That's fantastic and a great natural approach. Of course, for John, I would mention, as I've mentioned on the program before, the best time of the year for weed control is in the fall September, October in my opinion, because then we're dealing with annual weeds also as opposed to the spring. But yes, Stacy, at this point of the year, let's
let the birds do the work and eat away. And you know, here in Michigan this winter, we don't have a lot of snow cover like we usually do, so yeah, there's a lot of that natural food though right anytime that's exposed, they're going to be out there foraging. And then you know, I typically don't use a lot of pesticides or herbicides in my yard, but I do make an exception for pre emergent in certain beds. In my yard, like where I'm growing cactus and stuff and I really can't get
in there. It's a weed I do use like a pre emergent, and it works great. So you wouldn't put that down now because it would just, you know, basically go off and not really have any effectiveness. But that will take care of whatever the birds don't eat in spring, if you're open to using something like that. And the reason I do the control in the fall is because the winter annuals are in a rosette stage and it's not really blooming or seeding until we get to spring. When how would you put
at Stacey Blamo all of a sudden they're there, Blamo Blamo. Indeed, all right, Mary asks help. This fall, I planted three little limelight high ranges in front of my house, which faces southwest. Their tag said full to part sun, which probably would have been fine in western Pennsylvania, where I used to live, But I'm now in Middle Tennessee and I'm starting to think that it will be too hot and sunny for them in that spot by the middle of next summer. Should I dig them up, move them
someplay shadier in spring? I don't want to lose them. So it's a great question, Mary, and I'm glad you asked it. And there's a couple of issues here. So first of all, yeah, our plant tags, as well as is other plant tags that you're going to read, are
going to have typically that range of sun tolerance. And you know, the way that plants are produced in distributed in North America means that you know, typically you're not going to get a tag that's just for the South and a separate tag that's for the North. These plant tags, they need to serve the needs of an entire country with vastly different climate conditions, and so you know, a lot of times we really do rely on the expertise of local
garden centers and local gardeners to say, sure, that would have been fine in western Pennsylvania, as Mary says, but in a warmer climate, you're going to go more for that semi shade or part sun kind of conditions. So it is a big story to tell in a little space, and that doesn't make it challenging. But that said, I would say that panicle hydrangees
are unequivocally the most sun and heat tolerant of all hydrangees. So you're already off to a good start by having you know, those particular types of hydrangees in that And then second of all, even in the south, like unless you're in a very very hot climate like say USCA Zone nine or warmer most of the time, if you can provide those plants enough water by through irrigation, they can take more sun. The sun and the irrigation really go hand
in hand and how much heat the plant can take. So yes, there's certainly exceptions, and I've heard from plenty of gardeners in Texas who there's just no way they're going to be able to grow something in the sun because it's
much hotter and the sun is more intense than here. But you know, especially in a place like Middle Tennessee, if you are able to provide the irrigation, if they're on drip, if you have a regular irrigation system, I wouldn't try it just through handwatering, because that will become a nightmare and
you will soon start to resent them. But I would actually say, if you have irrigation, I think they're going to be just fine with mulch, you know, a good two to three inch layer of mulch, and I would not move them but if you don't have irrigation and you're concerned about it, it certainly wouldn't hurt to move them. Spring is a great time, and the sooner you move something after it's planted less, you know, stressful
that is on you and the plant. So Stacy, you do a wonderful job writing descriptions for plants and copywriting, and people of course love using that information like they do with proven winners color choice shrubs. But I have to tell you when you're in the garden center and you look at a tag and it says part sun moist well drained soil, not quite sure how to do that? Yeah, I know it's but you know, I often tell people we garden in the real world, not the ideal world, but we do
kind of have to give those ideal conditions. But you know, that's one of the reasons we do the shelf is to help people better understand those conditions. And you can always ask at your garden center and hopefully you'll find someone who knows and wants to help you. But the information is out there and that's where the experienced part of gardening comes in as well. Karen is wondering I live in zone five. What's the best thing to do when my shrubs
and trees are weighed down after a heavy snowfall? Should I try to shake off the snow or just wait for it to eventually melt the tailor switch thing, shake it off or whatever her song was. And by the way, for folks who are watching us or listening all over the world here in Zone five, Michigan, Halloween, oh gosh, yeah, the end of October, we got wet, heavy snow. I got twelve inches and boy, and the plants still had their foliage on them, so they were bending.
Yeah, they were working bed. So that's the kicker of it all is that if the snow is very wet, it's very hard to remove. If it's fluffy, I would say, get a broom, try to take it off the best that you can. If it's a conifer, don't worry about it. They're made to take that snowload. You don't have to spend your time doing that. Make sure you stand back because if you ever tried to dust the snow off of something and gotten a head full of as yourself,
not very fun. And I would also say to prioritize, and I've seen this in my old house. Prioritize plants that are likely to get dripped on by ice, because it's gonna happen if you have all the snow on there and then it's like near your home and there's gonna be dripping water and you're gonna get ice farming in there. That snow is going to contribute and add a ton of weight once that starts icing up. So it really does just depend. I would say, use a broom, try not to do with
your hands because that's more likely to cause breakage. And sometimes it's just gonna happen, and that's just the way it is. Sometimes you just got to step away and let nature take its course. You really do, because you can do more damage for messing with Yeah, and sometimes if it's icy and things are sticking to the plant, So get out your broom, do the best you can, prioritize your most valuable plants, and hope for the best
because that's all we do in winter really anyway. So thank you all for your questions. If you do have a question, don't forget Gardening Simplified on air dot com. You can find out how to reach us there. We're gonna take a little break when we come back. We've got a guest for branching News, so you're not going to want to miss that. The Gardening
Simplified Show is brought to you by proven Winn's Color Choice Shrub. Our Award winning flowering shrubs and evergreens have been trialed and tested for your success so you enjoy more beauty and less work. Look for proven Winners Color Choice Shrubs and the distinctive white container at your local garden center. Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified Show. It's time for Branching News. And today we talked to Deborah
Kannapki. Now she is the garden Sage Horticulture and teaching. Actually is her third career. She has a master's in horticulture, a master's in Speech Language Pathology, bachelor's and Speech and Hearing Science with a minor in vocal music performance from the Ohio State University. Wow. And then on top of that, I know because I've looked at her books and read some of them, writer
of six books, including herb Gardening for the Midwest. On top of all that, she's a friend of ours, and I know that if you need someone to make some fresh bread and some herb butter. Deborah can do that too. Deborah, thanks so much for joining us on the Gardening Simplified Show. My pleasure to be here. And that was a wow of an introduction. Thank you. Well, that's a wow of a career. Oh my goodness, it's amazing. And I want people, of course to look for
you, Deborah, because you are a wealth of information. Your website, Deborah, can you share that with folks right off the top? Sure? And just a side notes, my website is being updated by my new web mistress, and so more's coming. But my website is www. Deborah the Gardenstage dot com. And I wanted a shorter name, but the Garden Stage was already taken by someone else, and so we put my first name there and that's how it became Deborah the Stage and your Deborah dB R A right
correct? Okay, thank you, Stacey. Speaking of someone whose name has multiple spellings, I feel you absolutely. Well, it's the holiday season. Of course, Deborah's a herb expert, but today we talk about tea, and of course that aligns with herbs. Deborah, you say t I say to Sane, is that correct? Well? You know, and it's kind of fun to play with those words. If we talk about straight t it's Camellia sinensus, it's that plant that we get green tea, Oolong's black tea.
Who are a whole host of teas from a palm, from the palm to China, kimuns and more. But when we talk about herbal teas, technically the correct term to use is to sing or to son. It depends on how you wish to say it. I mean potato patato, but t I s a n e. So honestly, when I talk about my herbal teas, I usually don't say herbal tissain. I say herbal tea. But there would be some people who would correct you on that, not me. But it's interesting, so to say tussan, let's call the whole thing off.
It's that typical thing something like that. But Deborah, you so you're saying that camelia, which many people would grow for the gorgeous flowers, You're saying, this is the base. This is the true tea plant, the true tea plant that you know if you believe in the story. Back around twenty six hundred BC, there was a Chinese emperor shen Nung who was sitting under a tree, and some leaves from the tree fell into water, and he drank the water and felt so refreshed that he said this was to be
his beverage. And the leaves were from Camelia sinensus, the camelia that is from China. It's it's home base. And there's actually two variants of Camellia sinensus. One that's the southern Chinese variant with small leaves, and the Northern Indian variant which has large leaves or India, so you know that is tea. As there is the history of using Camelia sinensus for not only pleasure, but for help. And then there are herbs, which there are many that
we have used also for pleasure and also for health. So I know a lot of people who are listening. I mean, we're we're based in Michigan, but we do have listeners all over the country, and they're probably thinking, well, hey, I have camelias, can I grow tea? But the tea plant, Camellia sinensus, is not as hardy as a lot of the ornamental kamelia. It's correct, that is my understanding. I accidentally did leave one outside, but we are zones at that time zone six A and
it died. Yeah, they are quite tender. I thank you. It is more of a Zone seven or a Zone eight plant. So if you're thinking of Zone seven Raleigh, North Carolina zone or you know, Long Island, and Zone eight would be more of Atlanta, Georgia as a sort of a place to think about that. But a great history as it relates to teas, as you mentioned China, Japan, India, and then of course
England. And I was reading some of your notes, Deborah, and you said it was interesting to me sweet tea and the use of milk in the Western world or in England, and that caught my eye because my parents are both from Europe and I never could figure out out why they put milk and sugar in their tea and ruin it. But you know, it's just a thing, right, It is a thing. And it depends because I only
use well and I use oat milk. But I use milk in my black or red teas and in my pure but there will be no milk in my green or oolong teas, and don't I don't put milk in my herbal teas either, and often I don't use sweetener in herbal teas unless I have some bitter elements, but if I do use sweeteners, I usually stick to honey
or agave syrup. Interesting. Yeah, And then of course tea makes it to America, and of course we're famous for the Boston Tea Party and my good friend Thomas Jefferson who always said tea and coffee are the drink of the civilized world. So a lot of history, a lot of history. There being someone who is an expert on herbs and loves herbs, it seems to me, Deborah, that tea is just a natural launching point for you. Absolutely. I was drinking herbal teas before, way before I went back to
school for my horticultural degree. It's always it's calming. I can't tell you how many times I'll come home from a meeting at night and the only thing I want is Channel mile tea with a hint of mint, usually spearmints, and I find that very RESTful and it gets me set up for going to bed. But then there are other teas that kind of wage you up, like peppermint. I don't have peppermint at night because that will keep me awake almost as well as caffeine does. So it depends on what you want.
There are so many herbs out there. I have many blends from friends and also local tea blenders or to say, blenders here in central Ohio, and just some wonderful things. And imagine drinking a tea from pine needles and from a spruce bud tip. And there are a lot of teas that you can make from our native plants, like bee bombs or Oswego tea, which was one of the tees that replaced the tea that ended up in the Boston Harbor.
Yeah, that's right. As a matter of fact, I remember reading somewhere that Minarda or bee bomb was used as a substitute after that big Boston tea party. Right, yep, it was because it's growing wild here and it makes a pleasant minty tea that again is calming. Debraah, I'm seeing on the shelf a lot of echanation tees. Is this a fad a trend or is this something that has legs. Echination has been used for a very long time, and there were there are a lot of studies done in Germany
on echinationia and its efficacy. And it doesn't you know, like everything that's out there in medicines or herbs or whatever. It doesn't work the same for everyone, but a lot of people will find an immune system boost if they
drink echinationia tea. When I'm feeling what I call punky, you know, I feel like my you know, chest is tight, or my throat is or the first thing I go to is for a cup of echination tea and it usually again has a mint in it, and it may have elderberry, which is another fantastic immune system boosters, and I will drink one to two cups of that. Now, by the way, my cups are not that little six ounce cups that people talk about on label mine. I have a
sixteen ounce cup. So when I have a cup of tea, I have a cup of tea. Yeah. Wow, that's great. We're talking to Deborah knap Key and you can find her her website, Deborahthegardensage dot com, herb expert, and today we're talking about teas and why not t in tranquility during a hectic holiday season, Deborah, one of my favorite things. And I was on Cape Cod this past summer looking at the Rosa rugosa, but rosehips, rosehips, is there a use for that in our teas? I
drink a lot of rose hips in the winter. Rosehips have very high vitamin C content, so that is something that helps again your system to fight off maybe the cold that you're picking up from your daughter, niece, nephew, son in law, you name it. So I will often add rose hips and high diiscus flowers and that gives you a beautiful red colored teeth. And I may put in some mint and oh, I don't know, it depends on what I've sayed during the year. I have another favorite, which is
lemon verbina, which is kind of a wake up key for me. Yeah, and it makes a phenomenal cold tea in the summer. How about lemon how about lemon grass along that line too, yep. In fact, I'll do a lemon grass, lemon balm, lemon verbina mix and then add in a bit of mint and then calm it down a little bit with either some
lavender buds or let's say I'm trying to think. A lot of times I just go out in the garden with my snips and look at what's looking good and then shove that into a bottle of one of my jars of water, and to put that in the refrigerator and twelve to twenty four hours later, I have tea cold brew tea. You're talking about harvesting during the season, during the growing season when everything is fresh, and it sounds like you're also
collecting and drying. So in terms of people who want to, you know, make their own teas from the garden or stockpile during the height of the season, what is what should they know about the difference between making tea from
fresh herbs versus dried herbs. That's an excellent question. If you are if you are making tea from fresh herbs, you're going to use more of them, just because the flavors you know, in the green tea, I'm sorry, in the green h what you collect from your gardens aren't is concentrated. Once you dry something, you really concentrated those essential oils. And unfortunately, in some herbs there are some central oils that kind of volatize off of the
herbs once it dries, So sometimes you don't get all the notes. If you know what I mean, you know all the flavors, but so dried tea fresh tea in the summer. I crave fresh tea in the winter when I can't get it. I have my dried herbs, and it's all kinds all times. Stage lavender buds, by the way, lavender buds, not lavender leaves. There are some compounds in the lavender leaves that can cause stomach upset and reactions and sensitive people. The buds are much a much safer part
of the plant. And that's true of some of our other herbs too, that some parts are much better than others. Where it's something like echinatia, you can use the petals, the leaves and the roots, but not so for for all earths. So back to that question. So you'll be using less of the dried herbs when you make your tea than you would like a cold brew tea, although I don't usually do that in the winter it's usually
usually hot. But my herbs, I'll use maybe one teaspoon to one tablespoon of dried herbs in a cup of tea, whereas I would have I have this big two gallon jar, or I would have a whole fistful of herbs in the summer that go into that jar with cold water. So a big difference in volume. Oh that's fantastic, all right, Deborah. So you sent along some pictures which for folks listening on radio or our podcast, you may want to spin over to our YouTube video. Adriana will put those pictures
there. I'm interested in the time lawn and also in the tea box, so let's make a few quick comments there. First of all about the time lawn. Tell me about that. So I was the curator of the IRB Garden at Inneswood, the Central Ohio IRB Gardens from the Unit of the Earth Society of America. We have an IRB Garden at Innesswood Metropark, and I was the curator for several years, and they had a time lawn, and I thought, shoot, I want to get rid of grass. So I
bought about twenty five different types of time and I planted them all. And now my timeline has matured because that was in the nineties. That was around ninety four ninety five. Wow, And so yeah, So that picture that you see now is probably about ten different varieties of time, because some are much more vigorous than others. So I will go out they all have different flavor profiles, and some of them don't have any flavor at all. They're great as a groundcover, but not as a tea. All yeah, all
time is edible, but not all time is tasty. Okay. So yeah, So in that lawn there are about three three or four that I harvest for tea, and then I have more in my backyard in another sunny spot, some of the more vigorous types that would take over the world that I will cut and dry. So that's the timelawne. And in my front yard there's not very much grass and not very much in the backyard either. You could say, Deborah, you have time on your hands, and I'm sure
you've heard that one many times. I do, and a friend even went down and rubbed it and said, oh, I have time on my hands. Oh my gosh. How about the tea box? So the tea box. I started giving tea talks probably about ten years ago because I wanted people to understand one the difference between the tea plant and then herbal teas or to same. And I also wanted to show the amazing variety of tea. It's like wine, there's terror so you can have the same tea plant in different
parts of China and you get different flavors of tea. Same as in India that Darjeeling and the assams and the cealons, you know, they're just amazing. And it's the same plant, just like it's the same wine from grapes, you know, or same grapes for different wines. So I put together this tea box so people could see what they look like and some of the
beautiful teas that result. And I'm opening it up right now, some of the beautiful teas that result when people are binding them in that beautiful pe andy flower that's in the picture, and you'll see some that look like snails. Actually that's the green China gunpowder, and it's rolled in someone's fingers, so someone does this all day long and rolls all of it so it looks like gunshot, so it's called gunpowder green. And there's also the little too o
chaw, which means bird nests that's sitting there. That is a poo are, which actually is a fermented tea from Camelia sinensis, and it looks like a little bird's nest and it's a very wonderful tea that is delightful to drink and also very healthy for you. So I put this together so people could see the differences. So I've had pooar before, and I've had some that were excellent, some that were an acquired taste. I think that's one of
the more polarizing teas. Would you was that in your experience? M I have a friend who bought some because I was sousiastic about it, and they said, this smells and tastes like a barnyard, and I then became the recipient of his Yeah, there's definitely I can see the appeal. But there are some that are much stronger and not maybe what people expect when when they're
sitting down to a cup of tea. Yeah, it's there, and there are who ares that here in America we probably will never see that are one hundred years old and way out of most of ours pocket book range, Deborah, when we when we brew these wonderful teas. Herbal teas is water temperature a factor? Does water temperature matter? It does, and we're talking specifically
about herbal teas. For the most part. You either want the water to be boiling or just under the boil, which means you either listen to your teapot or look at the water inside, or I have an electric teapot that brings to the temperature I want, so I can get it at two twelve boiling, or I can have it two hundred, which is what I call
under the boil. If you have a delicate tea, like say you're just doing straight jasmine tea, not with the green tea in it, but just jasmine, you really don't want it to get above one hundred and ninety degrees because otherwise all that jasmine is just going to float right off of that water and you'll never you won't taste most of it, you won't get that really beautiful high note that you get with jasmine. So it does matter with the
different types of herb teas. Now, if you are drinking a tea that has a lot of either branches or root like in echinaesia, then you need the water to boil, otherwise you won't extract the phyto chemicals that you're hoping to drink. So do you have to know this all specifically know just if you have any doubt, just do it under the boil or get it to boil, let it sit for a minute, and then pour it over your herbs, and for the most part you will get everything you need out of
it. That you for everything you need or want out of it. So it's an art and a science just like gardening. Yeah, it is. And in fact, when you think about it, tea is so horticultural, whether it is Camellia sinensus or herb tea. You know, it's the growing of the keys, which I like it all. I love growing it, harvesting, drying, understanding where where the different teas come from, and also
what they can do for our health. And of course the other part of that too is knowing which herbs not to use in tees or which herbs can cause a problem. There are many herbs that are contraindicated for someone who is pregnant or breastfeeding, and so you have to be aware that you should not be drinking those teas during that time. Very very interesting. Deborah Kannapkey, she is the garden Sage. Her website Deborahthegardensage dot com. Deborah would love
to have you on the show again. And before I let you go, We're going to ask a very unfair question we always ask people that we interview, and that is I'm going to ask you for our listeners and our viewers to share with us in your knowledge. Give me your favorite herb number one if it had to be at the top of the list, and your favorite landscape plant. Go ahead. My favorite herb is lavender. It was also my master's research project and it's just an amazing, amazing herb. But I
like all the mints, so I'm just going to add that. And for my favorite landscape plant, Oh gee, that's hard. It's unfair. I know that, I know, you know. I mean, if you ask me for my favorite tree and my favorite shrub and my favorite perennials, if pushed for my favorite favorite plant, I'm going to have to say orchids. And I know that's a huge group, you know, twenty six thousand species, and I've just I've fell in love with orchids and can't get enough of
them, So that's actually a whole group. But if I have to say one single plant that gives me deep jew and that would be sunflowers, wonderful, wonderful, that's great. Her name is Deborah Kannapke. She's the garden Sage. Deborah. You what you do for the gardening industry is fantastic, and want to thank you and the education that you provide. Of course,
folks. She has books also, which you can find at her website, including herb Gardening for the Midwest. Deborah, thanks so much for joining us on the Gardening Simplified Show, and we'd love to have you back again to talk about some other subjects. I'd love to come back. Thank you. Thanks Debra. Well, that was great. My only thing here is that I didn't harvest any of my herbs over the summer, so I can't enjoy any homegrown herbal teas this winter. But I'm putting it on the calendar for
next summer, that's for sure. I'm inspired. Well, thanks to Deborah, thanks to Rick, thanks to Adriana, and of course, thank you so much to all of you. We hope you have a wonderful week ahead. Thanks