GB 176 TRANSCRIPT Succulents. Tomatillos.
Farmer Fred 0:00
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Farmer Fred 0:32
Looking for easy to grow succulents for a wide variety of climates? We cover the basics for growing these unthirsty plants both outdoors and indoors. Spice up your salsa garden this year with the tomato relative, tomatillos. We have tips, and a warning. We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. And we will do it all in under 30 minutes. Let’s go!
Farmer Fred 1:12
Have you thought about growing succulents Do you know anything about succulents? Well, here you go some basic information about growing succulents. We're talking with Sacramento County Master Gardener Theresa Roberts. She is also with the Sacramento Cactus and Succulent society. So she knows her succulents. Theresa, you talk about an easy care plant. They don't get much easier than succulents.
Theresa Roberts 1:34
They do not get much easier in succulents if you just take into consideration a few of their preferences.
Farmer Fred 1:42
first of all, let's define what a succulent is.
Theresa Roberts 1:46
A succulent is a plant that has water conserving properties. And those that water conservation can occur in leaves, stems, or even in parts of the root system. So it's not like a tight scientific kind of definition. they are plants that tend to have capacity for holding water more than other plants.
Farmer Fred 2:13
Yeah, they generally have sort a thicker leaf.
Theresa Roberts 2:15
A thicker leaf, it can be thick, fleshy roots, as well can be thick, fleshy stems, and even those Caudexes, right at the juncture of the roots and the stems.
Farmer Fred 2:25
So let's talk about some easy growing succulents for the outdoors. Now it's kind of hard to pick any that would work all the way across the country, you got to know your zone, you got to know how cold it gets there. So let's just talk maybe some easy care succulents that can take light frost, something that you might see in USDA zones nine and eight, possibly some areas of seven, that may be able to take a few cold winter days and bounce back.
Theresa Roberts 2:52
Okay. with your large groups that are going to give you the broadest range of those kinds of plants are going to be some crassulas, and lots of sedums. Now one of the challenges you can't say like a particular one to get, because though both of those categories of plants are highly hybridized, and new hybrids coming out all the time. So it's knowing largely that those two category names, crassulas and sedums. When you see that on a plant label, it's time for your ears to perk up perk up and say that's likely to work.
Farmer Fred 3:26
describe the basic Crassula. are these low growing plants are they spreading plants, do they flower?
Theresa Roberts 3:32
they all flower, and they largely tend to be smaller plants, lower growing plants like crassula arborescens, it can make like a small shrub, two feet wide, a foot high gets these beautiful white star shaped flowers on it. Beautiful foliage with a kind of mint green leaves with a red edge in though those can be beautiful plants. So you can look and find low growing, a lot of them are available in ground to use for ground cover applications. You can use them in groups of individual plants that may be set up six to 12 inches high and you can get them into the small shrub size. And then you can get ones that will grow more even into like a tree, a small tree form.
Farmer Fred 4:19
I have seen succulents out here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. Some are in full sun. And some, like what we're staring at here, in full shade. And you wonder, what is the light requirement for most succulents?
Theresa Roberts 4:31
Well, it varies. and if I had to say one of the two biggest problems with people being successful with succulents is the people believe and understand that they are water conserving that they don't need a lot of water and they conclude that therefore you can put them in hot baking sun like a south facing and West facing sun for us out here in California. Those two kinds of exposures are going to get extremely hot. Many of the succulents just bake and dry up, you can just keep pouring water on them. But that's not going to take care of that problem. So it's thinking about some. And that's why some people like not only does it set the succulents off, from an aesthetic point of view, you can also provide little mini areas of some shading by planting underneath another tree that's open by using some decorative rocks by using little mounds of soil, thinking about something to break up that sun. The second biggest challenge that people have is they water too much. people want to take care of their plants, they want to be loving to them, they want to care for them, they want to nurture them, and at the first signs of distress, people are likely to conclude, oh, it needs more water. So too much sun and too much water are the biggest worries that I think I can identify about people being successful with having their succulents do everything they'd like them to do in their gardens.
Farmer Fred 6:03
Many areas of the country also have heavy clay soil, which can retain moisture for a long period of time. And that's not really what a succulent's basic needs include. So are succulents really best for containers or raised beds?
Theresa Roberts 6:17
Not necessarily. But you do raise up another point when we think about all plants in my mind, I think about light, which we've already touched on the heat and the light that go together. We already touched upon the water about having restraint, "if in doubt, don't" is kind of what I say. And now you've touched on the third thing that is really the basic plant culture, which is the soil conditions. And indeed we do have in lots of areas of the Sacramento County, we have heavy clay soils. We also have in lots of areas, soils that have a lot of rock in them. And in certain areas, we have soils that have a lot of minerals in them. So with respect to succulents, their most essential soil requirement is that the soil be well draining. So pot culture makes it perfect for succulents, because you can establish that well draining soil by what you put into the pot. but they grow really well in the soil even if you have clay soil. But what you will need to do, most succulents, most I could say, most succulents are not real deeply rooted. And so if you take out some of that soil and mix in something to help the drainage. we're very fond of the use of pumice, lava. small chunks of lava rock. And I have colleagues, friends, that they plant their succulents in pure pumice and in the ground. And so you know, if you plant them in the ground, you can get by with more drainage-increasing properties because you have the moisture-conserving nature of the soil itself. So they're well suited for pots or soil that with soil and probably eight to 12 inches down is going to be sufficient to try to get what I call that lofty, fluffy soil that they love.
Farmer Fred 8:13
We've talked about crassulas. You mentioned sedums. talk a little bit about sedums. How big do they get? They obviously flower, talk about that.
Theresa Roberts 8:22
Sedums tend to be in the smaller group. They tend to be the little precious succulents that make lovely dish gardens. They make really great displays and trough-like planters. In wide flat kinds of planters, you can mix a variety of them and make just a little charming, elfin complex of sedums in the ground. You can also get sedums, they tend to be small plants, but they will cover. One sedum plant can cover a whole big area to two to three feet.
Farmer Fred 8:57
So sedums then would be a good choice for those that are just starting off in the world of succulents.
Theresa Roberts 9:01
Yes, and we also see a lot of growing interest in succulents for people who live in condominiums, apartments or new homes that often tend to have very, very small yards. you can even grow some succulents inside, if you can get just some light, good light coming in through a bright window. window sills, a lot of homes don't have those anymore, but a small table by a window and two types of plants that we haven't spoken of yet that do very well for inside home growing are haworthias and gasterias tend to be darker green color thick, fleshy leaves. And so they can do better in really, what can be low light kinds of conditions.
Farmer Fred 9:47
By the way, if you're scribbling notes and are wondering about the spelling of some of these terms, like haworthia or gasteria, it's also going to be in the show notes because we do a transcription of each episode. so if you're looking for exactly what we're talking about, read the transcription for today's episode. Indoor growing of succulents, windows that work best, south and west facing exposure, east facing?
Theresa Roberts 10:12
East facing, south, south facing ones East facing ones with bright morning light. Because plants are often up close to the window pane, that glass gets very hot and radiates off even if they are new glass windows, double pane, it can still get very hot. So a Western facing window with succulents int late in the afternoon and our hot summer days can be a very hot place. You might even want to think about how succulents can be part of your changing decor, because you can have them in a south and west facing window in the fall and wintertime and then move them to an area where you can still get bright light, but not as much heat and then you have a whole new room decor.
Farmer Fred 11:02
There are a lot of commercial indoor succulents soil mixes to use, do you recommend those and how do you improve the drainage in those situations?
Theresa Roberts 11:12
Thank you for asking that question. Yes, most large garden centers will contain a mix that is designated for cactus, maybe palm trees and succulents. That mix is going to have less organic material meaning less humus, leaf mold, or peat in it. Peat moss is a whole other issue. And they're also like more likely to have some larger pieces, larger particles. My experience with those so I always amend them and I add in more material for drainage. Typically, what I like is pumice. Pumice and perlite. Let's keep those two things separate. I do not prefer perlite, because that's the one if you've ever had it, it's white and floats to the top and it you dunk it again and it still floats to the top. You can find Pumice, but it is harder to find. I often buy it at feed stores because they use it in stalls for animals to absorb animal moisture from inside stalls.
Farmer Fred 12:16
Perlite looks like styrofoam bits, and Pumice is more rock-like.
Theresa Roberts 12:22
Yes, and some people argue that the pumice because it's like pulverized lava rock but it's white that that actually people that don't like it might say to you that it actually is a place for microorganisms of green algae, and stuff can get in there. And that can sometimes happen. But that is a sure sign of too much water.
Farmer Fred 12:44
And the other problem with indoor succulent Gardens is you need that good drainage. And a lot of people don't have the proper drainage on their indoor plants.
Theresa Roberts 12:53
Right. And they're reluctant to get that drainage because they don't want that water coming out of the bottom of the pot, because they got it on a finished piece of furniture. That's good to be caring about that. But you can always get those little plastic liners to put them in. Clay saucers won't work, because the water will permeate them. Put them on a flat tray with pebbles on there. But really ideally, if you're having them outdoors, you want them just to be free draining, but you can't do that indoors. So think about collecting that extra moisture, not preventing it, but in a way that it's not in a receptacle with a porous material.
Farmer Fred 13:29
Probably having a larger tray beneath it with that pumice rock in that tray to collect the water as it drains from the pot.
Theresa Roberts 13:38
Yes, that can be that can work very nice. And that can be quite decorative too.
Farmer Fred 13:42
Alright, so there's a lot of solutions to your succulent issues. They're still one of the easiest plants to grow. Theresa Roberts is a Master Gardener in Sacramento County. We're here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center that, by the way, have a lot of succulents out here among everything else they grow here.
Theresa Roberts 13:57
And we're just beginning to develop some more focused areas for succulents where we will be looking at both making using both beautiful plants, but also creating a beautiful environment for those plants to be situated in all the way from mulch to soil, to rocks to plants, come out to the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center and see our work grow.
Farmer Fred 14:19
You can even plan a vacation around it, especially for Harvest Day at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. It's always the first Saturday in August and it is a wonderful, wonderful event. One of the best gardening events you can come to, at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center on the first Saturday every August, it's called Darvest day. I hope to see you out here some time no matter where you might live.
Theresa Roberts 14:41
And also just to whet your appetite and this is the right time of year, the first weekend in May we will be having a cactus and other succulents on sale at the Shepherd Garden and Art Center down in McKinley Park in Sacramento. That's the first weekend in May. I don't have the exact dates off the tip of my tongue, but we will be having over 15 vendors there selling common and rare cactus and other succulents. We have people there selling handmade beautiful art pots. You can buy plants anywhere from $5 to several hundred. So we have something for everybody's budget, and you will be mesmerized by the variety. You can them see there that weekend.
Farmer Fred 15:28
We'll have a link to that event coming up in the show notes in the Garden Basics podcast. Theresa Roberts, thanks so much for your time
Theresa Roberts 15:34
and thank you for your time
Farmer Fred 15:40
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Farmer Fred 17:30
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Unknown Speaker 18:44
Hi, my name is Brenda Terry and I listen to Farmer Fred. I really really enjoy it and I have learned a lot. Next summer, I'm going to be growing tomatillos rather than tomatoes because of my health. I can't eat tomatoes anymore. And I'm hoping you could cover a little bit about tomatoes in a spring episode. Thank you very much and keep up the good work.
Farmer Fred 19:08
Well, Brenda thanks so much for the question. You can be like Brenda and leave a question on Speakpipe. Go to speakpipe.com/garden basics. It's easy. Give it a try. You can even call us and leave a message if you'd like: 916-292-8964, 916-292-8964. Email? Sure, send it to Fred at farmerfred.com. You can leave a question at Facebook, Instagram or Twitter as well. You'll find links to all those in today's show notes. Debbie Flower is here, our favorite retired college horticultural professor, which I guess you better trademark that phrase.
Debbie Flower 19:46
People are asking me about it when they hear my voice in strange places. Yes.
Farmer Fred 19:51
Well, good. All right. So Brenda has a question about tomatillos. Brenda We're sorry that you're allergic to tomatoes. But tomatillos are kind of a close relative.
Debbie Flower 20:01
Yeah they are, my husband has a problem eating tomatoes as well and so we don't in our house and I am reluctant to feed him tomatillos. Tomatillos are in the same family as tomatoes, which is the Solanaceae family, along with peppers, eggplant, potatoes, tobacco, and they are also contain the chemical solanine which could be something that is causing, at least my husband's allergy problems, with tomatoes and potatoes, etc. Brenda did not say what her response was to tomatoes that was negative, but I would caution her to be careful eating tomatillos.
Farmer Fred 20:41
Maybe test them out first. Yes, buy a few and eat them and see what happens. That's not medical advice. I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on the podcast.
Debbie Flower 20:51
Same here. But she could grow them. they're very easy to grow and they're a fun plant and if it turns out she can't eat them I'm sure there would be other people interested in trying them out.
Farmer Fred 21:01
Some would consider it a weed.
Debbie Flower 21:03
I haven't met anybody who would say that.
Farmer Fred 21:05
you're looking at one.
Debbie Flower 21:07
Why is that? Do they take over?
Farmer Fred 21:09
if you forget to harvest some, and they get buried in the detritus around the ground. or the birds pick them up and all of a sudden there's little tomatillo plants sprouting everywhere.
Debbie Flower 21:20
Okay, the seeds are inside of the fruit. Yeah.
Farmer Fred 21:24
but tomatillos are easy to grow. But it does take two to tango, doesn't it?
Debbie Flower 21:29
It absolutely does. They have to cross pollinate, they do not recognize their own pollen. In order for a fruit to form, pollination has to occur in the flower. So viable pollen, useful pollen, has to get to the tomatillo plant and the only place that's going to come from is another tomatillo plant.
Farmer Fred 21:46
but it can be the same variety. It doesn't have to be a different variety.
Debbie Flower 21:51
It can be the same or different. Tomatillos ripen to green, sort of a yellowish color, purple, there are different varieties of tomatillos. So you can grow two of the same, you can grow two different ones. Either way, you will get that cross pollination which will be done by insects, particularly bees. So you want a bee-friendly garden so have other things around that attract bees, flowers, etc. I always have some borage growing around my vegetable garden because the bees love that and it blooms pretty much all the time. But some people call borage a weed, as well. Be aware that it has not been an issue for me. But for some people, it is. But have other flowers around that attract the bees. The bees will feed on those flowers and then find your tomatillos and do some pollen transfer which is what you need to have happen.
Farmer Fred 22:38
Yeah, the borage and the tomatillos took over my yard. I remember that. You're right. tomatillos are very easy to grow. You look for that papery husk around the fruit that begins to dry when the fruits are maturing, and probably when they're firm to the touch but seem to give a little and also the ripe fruits will pull fairly easily from the plant.
Debbie Flower 23:00
It can be eaten raw, or they can be cooked. They have a flavor, which I think of as being maybe a little on the sour side. But they can be cooked, they can be grilled, they can be put on a kebab. They can be cut up and put in salsa. There are lots of uses for them if you find them pleasant to eat.
Farmer Fred 23:17
yeah, you could can up green salsa with them. And yeah, that's a very popular recipe. And I guess as long as you like cilantro, you'll probably like tomatillos.
Debbie Flower 23:28
Yeah, well, I don't know if you have to like cilantro to like tomatillos, I think you can like tomatillo separately, but they're very easy to grow that basically follow the same cultural patterns as tomato from seed, full sun, warm nights 50-55 minimum, and that your nights should settle at 50 to 55 degrees minimum. They love it. And they even like it warmer than that. So full sun, lots of heat. And spacing. They can get to be pretty good sized plants, maybe not as big as a tomato, but two feet apart. Yeah, to two feet plus apart and in all directions. You can put a cage up, I've grown them without a cage and not had a problem. But obviously it'll take a little more space if they're not caged.
Farmer Fred 24:14
That was my problem as I was growing them in the soil. And they kind of spread.
Debbie Flower 24:21
They lay down.
Farmer Fred 24:25
Yeah, yeah, they lay down. They weren't caged. They no doubt they lay down. And I was just doing it on a lark.
Debbie Flower 24:29
Yeah, of course. You've got to do some of that stuff to make it all new and interesting. Yeah.
Farmer Fred 24:32
And I think I noted at the time, note to self: cage these in the future.
Debbie Flower 24:38
Things can happen when you cage a plant. it gets very dense in that cage and then that gives insects a place to hide and if you are using any sort of overhead irrigation, it allows water to get trapped between leaves or on top of leaves and that can increase your disease instance. So I shouldn't say cages are always wonderful, but cages make gardening neater.
Farmer Fred 25:02
And we should point out, speaking of diseases, that tomatillos are susceptible to many of the same diseases as tomatoes, right?
Debbie Flower 25:09
So you want to rotate your garden, you wouldn't want to plant the tomatillos where you have already planted or in the previous season planted a tomato and it's better if you have not planted tomato in that spot for the previous two seasons. In small gardens, that's not always doable, but you can always also grow them in a container, a large container, 15 gallon or a half barrel container. And they will take more watering more frequent irrigation, in that situation. But it is doable.
Farmer Fred 25:41
Tomatillos are easy to grow. And as long as they don't make you sick, go ahead and plant them. Yes. All right, Brenda, hope that helps. a lot of good tomatillo varieties out there. Debbie, thanks for your help.
Debbie Flower 25:52
Always a pleasure, Fred.
Farmer Fred 25:54
Have you taken a look at the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Beyond the Basics newsletter yet? It’s a deeper dive into what was discussed on the podcasts, along with more great gardening information. It really is, going “Beyond the Basics”. In the edition of the newsletter that comes out Friday, March 18, we chat with renowned chef and Master Gardener Andi Macdonald, who was cooking up vegan gumbo out at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center on an open garden day for the staff. A gumbo, of course, can use up a lot of what you harvest from your garden. After all, you grew it, now eat it! That gumbo smelled so good, I want to share it with you in Friday’s Beyond Basics newsletter. Of course, they haven’t installed digital aromas…yet…so, besides talking with Andi about her vegan gumbo recipe, we’ll have the recipe, as well, in the newsletter. It’s what’s cookin’ in the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter, Beyond the Basics. Find a link in the podcast show notes; or, at Farmer Fred dot com; or, by going to substack dot com slash garden basics. Think of it as your garden resource that goes beyond the basics. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter. And it’s free. Please subscribe and share it with your gardening friends and family. The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter, Beyond the Basics. And thank you for listening.
Farmer Fred 27:27
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