Yes, Your Commute Really Is Getting Worse

Why don't you do the thing that everybody says you shouldn't do and tell me about how bad your commune was. Yeah, sorry, I'm gonna riot talk. You're gonna have to hear it.

I mean, it was like, got on my regular train, that train got out of service because I later learned there was a track fire, got into the other train, which is a much slower commute, and at every station stop it was like some mumbled reasoning of why we were stopped and I don't know why, And like an hour and fifteen minutes later I got to work, which is like double the time it normally takes me. So

it was frustrating. It was bad. I did get a seat eventually, because I was on the train for so long. But um, yeah, it was just I was knew I was coming in to talk about commuting, and I knew you'd have a place to air those grievances. So thank you for listening. How is your community? My community actually was was okay this morning. Sorry I did. I left a little early this morning. I'm glad I did because I came in and I came into like a page of emails from people explaining how they were stuck on

the train. And it's like, and this happens when I have worked places um where I would have to drive, and the same thing happens you you have this night were commute. You lose all this time that you wanted to spend out work getting stuff done, and then you lose more time when you get to work because you're commiserating with your coworkers about how terrible the commute was because everyone else had the same experience. Commuting is just this universal thing that connects us all because we hate

it and it makes our life terrible. Yeah, And there've been a lot of articles about how in New York City, specifically this summer, it's the summer of hell. There's a lot of repairs happening for commuters who come into New York City. But then also the subway just happens to be breaking down a lot, making things even worse. But commuting in general is not like a New York City

specific frustration. No, and we have it bad, but the whole country spends a lot of time getting to work, and the average Americans spends twenty five minutes getting to work, and most of those people are doing it in a

car by themselves. So more than three quarters of people around seventies six or seventy seven percent are driving solo to work, and then a little less than ten percent car pool, five use public transportation, and then every other way of getting to work from like not going anywhere because you work from home, to walking or biking, those are all less than five percent each. I would argue that twenty five minutes in a car is equal to

or worse than forty minutes on the subway. Yeah, well so there's yeah, And also remember like twenty five minutes of the average, which means a lot of people are spending way more time, and then some people and then a lot of people are spending way less time. But yes, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Like in the subway, you could read a book or a newspaper, or on your phone frantically emailing our colleagues are running late. Well

you if you have WiFi. True, but I feel like if you're in a car stuck in traffic, you could at least like get on a conference call. Maybe that not around a bunch of other cranky people. Yes, you're you're in your own space, you have music, and like, maybe there's more of a sense of control when I've been stuck in this summer of hell. I've been part of a couple of severe delays where you're just trapped underground.

You have that unique New York feeling of being in darkness with no explanation why in an aluminum can with a bunch of other people, and you just feel so helpless and out of control. At least you have some illusion in a car of having some control because you can like move your car forward two feet every fifteen minutes. So, if I were a person who really cared about commuting, it was like my number one thing for finding a job.

Are there places where it is better than other places? Yeah, so counties in New York are unsurprisingly among the worst places for commuting, so are some counties in California, Los Angeles, in the Bay Area. And then all of the best places to commute are pretty far flung rural areas like in Alaska, where the population density is really low, and so basically people just aren't traveling that far to get to work. They're also arguably aren't as many jobs, and yeah,

the solution to your commute is probably not moving to Alaska. Um. So, we all know commuting is annoying and it's fun to complain about what a bad commute you have, But there are other bad things about commuting you might not even think about. For one thing, it's actually bad for your health. There was a UK study that showed that people who spend more than a half hour getting to work are more likely to have depression, They're more likely to have

financial problems and have more work related stress. But yeah, you're it's affecting your life, and if you think about it, it's not that crazy. I mean, this is a big

chunk of time. Even if you spend the average twenty five minutes getting to work, that's almost an hour every day that you spend on your journey to and from work, and it's kind of dead time, and it's either like, at best it's neutral, you got to work without any problems, but you kind of lost that time, and at worst, it's this nightmare that, like in your case today, gets

you to work late and feeling pioed. Very I never really think of commuting as being bad for my health, but more I'm more annoyed in the way it affects my work day and how I have to shovel everything around and sometimes I have to cancel meetings, and sometimes people cancel on me. I read in a Bloomberg article that the summer of health is costing Manhattan employers fortune point five million dollars for every hour train commuters are delayed.

And there have been all these articles about people losing jobs and people missing job interviews, and there was that it was a feel good, viral new story about that guy who like they held a graduation ceremony for him on the subway because he missed his graduation ceremony because of a delay. And that's your major life milestones on the subway. But that's that's happening regularly, and I think it's a big problem for not just employers, but people

trying to do their jobs. Yeah, so these huge effects of commuting seem like they would be top of mind when we were picking a new job or deciding where we're going to live. But I like most of us just kind of accept our commute as a fact of life. And if it takes you an hour to get to work, or if it's a really frustrating forty five minutes on the subway, that's just the way it has to be. But we wanted to find out how exactly things got this way and what if anything can be done to

make it better. And that's what our guest is going to talk to us about. Richard Florida is an urban studies theorist. He's a professor at the University of Toronto and author of many books, including The New Urban Crisis. Welcome Richard, it's great to be with you. Um let's get started just by asking why does it take Americans

as long as it does to get to work? Well, you know, I think Americans have been fascinated with the idea of buying I guess a less expensive house on the one hand, or a a home in the Bucolic suburbs. So you know, beginning I'm assuming sometime in the in

the beginning of the twentieth century. This idea is that that you could live far away from work and at that time take a subway or a train to work, or then more recently, drive your car to work, and that was something you did to have the suburban lifestyle

or the size of home that that you want. The point of fact is, though you know, according to nearly every study of the subject I've read, and trust me, I've read a lot of them, the single thing you can do to make yourself the most miserable is endure a long commute to and from work. So so maybe we have to begin to rethink that. So has the American relationship to the car changed as commutes have gotten worse? Well,

I think so. You know, um, my father, who was born in the twenties, certainly saw the car, you know, he talked to me a lot about that as his escape from Newark, New Jersey, is his escape from the old Italian village, you know, with grandma and grandpa and aunts and uncles looking over their shoulder. You he didn't feel like he had freedom, and the car for him as a young person, you know, as a young factory worker. Blue collar work was a way to have some fun.

Uh And then when he got married, you know, it was a way to move to a bedroom, working class bedroom suburb of Newark. Uh And and that raised his family the way he and my mom won't saw fit um And certainly for me and people of my generation, you know, baby boomers, the car was also you know, I was so mad at myself when I was a young person, I didn't have much money. I worked on my jobs. I had to help put myself through college.

But you know, people had these you know, camaros and can tell him the kid from New Jersey, Thunderbirds and and all of this kind of thing. And I felt so bad and inadequate because I couldn't afford a car. In fact, I couldn't afford a car until I graduated and got my pH d. And at that point all I could afford was a little measly Toyota Tersell, and I guess I felt inadequate. But but today, you know, the people I teaching, the people I teach in university,

they don't want a car. And I think that's the big change, you know, And and they say, you know, for them, a car is just a part. It's a financial burden. And anyway, you know, if they want to go out and have fun at night, what kind of lunatic would drive a car. Then they want to ride their bicycle or live close enough to walk or or take transit. So I do think, you know, the shift isn't is in the majority. You know, look, percent of Americans still drive a car to work alone by themselves.

And of course those numbers are very different in the New York metropolitan area than anywhere else where. Many more people walk a bicycle and certainly, um, you know a large share of people take transit of one sort of another go to work. But but it's very interesting when you look at it the people who who who take

transit or bicycle to work, it's actually very bifurcated. They're they're either relatively affluent people or they're not affluent people, their economically disadvant And where it really strikes me is so interesting, is that's particularly true of people who bike

to work. You know, the image the image of people biking to work are you know, young millennials and yuppies with a scarf around their neck and and you know, a saddle bag, a leather saddle bag, riding a Dutch bike, you know, one of these handcrafted Dutch bicycles to their graphic design job. And certainly that's true. You know, you have a greater percentage of people making over a hundred

thousand dollars a year biking to work. But but but there's also a great percentage of people making under ten thousand dollars a year biking to work. So so the very interesting thing that that that these alternative modes of transportation are something that either the very affluent use or the very poor use. You've talked about changing preferences. How the younger people you teach are they want to take transit. Our city is changing to accommodate these preferences. Um, not

fast enough. I mean we we really in the United States have have not invested in our transit infrastructure for a century. One of the things I point out in my book The New Urban Crisis. The reason why real estate around transit stops close into the city center, of course, but around transit subs, around subway stops, around rail hubs

is becoming so valuable is because there's so few of them. Um. And you know, according to really recent and important research what what what is really driving people back to cities. There's a better you know, there's a lot of good job opportunities there, and there's fun to be had, and there's great restaurants and great amenity. But one of the big things is to keep their commute short and to stay out of a car. So when they have a

more enjoyable life, they get more done. But but more importantly, they get more time to spend with their friends and family, which is very valuable. So they want to keep their commute short. And if they can't walk close enough to work to be able to walk to work, they want to be near transit so they don't have to endure long and again very painful, psychally painful car commute. How does commuting affect not only the decisions people make about

where they work, but their jobs overall. Well, company after company that I talked to tell me they're moving out of suburb X in x y Z metropolitan area back to the urban center, not only because there are more people living in downtown and more things to do downtown, because it's an easier to commute. There's much more transit connectivity. People can take a train or a bus and they can get there from any part of their city or metropolitan region. So I think we're seeing a big movement.

You know, in my own research, I've documented that now well more than half of all tech startups, which used to be completely and entirely located in suburban offices complex as you know, the so called nerdos stands where the high tech engineers wanted to drive their fancy sports cars are hepped up SUVs. Now more than half of those startups are in urban centers like Lower Manhattan or the downtown parts of San Francisco. So I think you've seen a big shift over the over the past years. That

the problem is there really is a class divide here. Um. The people who are most likely to be able to walk to work or or or take a quick one stop transit ride to work, you know, under a half an hour, under twenty minutes, tend to be affluent, highly educated people, um, you know. And then the middle class, if you will, and the middle class and smaller metrists

drive their car now. And the people who are stuck with these heinous and horrendous transit commute you know, like two buses, a train, a subway, and a long walk are the less advantaged, and the and the disadvantaged and the poor. And you know, I also hear this all across the country. You know, the people who are working in our schools, the people who are working as firefighters and e m t S. The people are working in retail shops and restaurants. They're enduring h two and three

hour commutes. Are there any companies or cities or communities doing anything to make communing more egalitarian. Well, you know, this is something I'm actually writing about now because I really believe that as we've revived our cities, in our communities, we've created a prosperity which is winner take all, and that has benefited the advantaged third um of knowledge workers, professionals, highly educated people in our society, with sixty six being

left further behind. And one of the cases I'm trying to make is that it's it's it's really incumbent upon anchor institutions, medical centers, hospitals, universities, but also high tech companies, high tech companies and real estate development companies to to

to engage in this. And you know, in in San Francisco, UM really people got very upset with the tech companies and and tech is not only colonizing downtown but then running their private shuttle buses UH to the corporate complexes of Yahoo in Google and Apple in the Silicon Valley.

And there were very virulent protests over those and in fact, there was a ballot measure that fortunately was defeated because it was it was not not a good thing to to go after high tech companies that are so innovative and so important to creating jobs and wealth. But a ballot menasum that wanted to prohibit high tech companies from locating in the downtown areas of San Francisco and so.

But so it's it's in common, I think on these companies to stop the you know that people view private shuttle buses as selfish because they are the better thing to do in Google is now considering a new campus in downtown San Jose near a transit hub UH and and also providing affordable housing is part of that, and

workforce housing is part of that. But but really I think the key here is is for these companies to see two being beginning to think that they're going to have to invest in transit options that are publicly shared, to work with state and local government and where you still possibly can federal agencies to make sure that you have the public transit infrastructure you need that not only serves your employees, but but but serves people broadly. So I think this is a slow, a slow dawning awareness.

But but I and see, you know, I can see the wheels ticking with companies, communities, anchor institutions now saying we all have to buck up, um to do things to one provide housing, more affordable housing, and workforce housing closure to where people work, to provide better jobs on these sites for service workers, but also to work to

ways to make public transit UH work better. In Miami Beach, where this problem has kind of reached ahead with terrible traffic in South Florida, you know, the mayor of Miami Beach actually created a trolley service because they couldn't get the line, you know, across the bay from Miami. The governor, the darn governor didn't want the high speed rail which is now being built by by private sector investors, but he actually put in place. It wasn't a trolley. It's

like a little bus that looks like a trolley. And um, the people who work in the service industries use that trolley like crazy as a way to get up and down Miami Beach to go from an apartment or if they take other transit onto the beach. I think it's cents. And the other thing that they're doing in Miami Beach that I think is really fascinating is there there's a proposal now to convert many of the city owned parking garages into affordable housing. That that does not mean living

in a parking stall. What they're going to do is build on top of the garages and they're going to add you know, they're going to have parking, and then add on top of the garages affordable housing units. So you can see in city after city people beginning to think about what we can do small steps first, but to begin to grapple with some of these problems. So we've heard from you a little bit about what cities have done and can do more of, and what individual

companies can do. Is there anything that as an individual worker you can do to make your commute better, especially if you are not graced with a really high income. Well, I wrote a whole book on this called Who's Your City? And the theme of that book was that you know, it's up to you to pick the best place for you to live and work. And most of us don't,

you know. Most they call it drive to you qualify. Oh, I want a house and it has to have a yard, and I'm going to drive far because it's more affordable the further I get from the city center, or we go visit a friend or a cousin. Oh it looks nice here. The park was okay, my friend lived here. I liked it. And no one really does this calculation. I should. Very few people do this calculation of you know, when I locate myself, when I pick a city to live in, or a neighborhood within a city, what is

that going to cost me? How long is my commute going to be? What's it going to be like in a daily basis? And I noticed recently someone wrote an article in New York Times as a young woman living in New York City and said, you know, I'm going to go test drive a few suburbs. It's exactly the

phrase I used in this book, Who's Your City? I said, before you spend all of this money on a home or a new rental, you know, moving all of your goods in a moving van, setting up a house that you're you're kind of stuck in whether you rent it for at least a year, but if you own it longer than that, go test drive the darn place. See if you like the neighborhood. Try to commute a couple of times and not you know, at at eleven o'clock in the morning. Try it during rush hour and see

what it's like. You know, people drive out there in the middle of the day on a Saturday and they, oh, it's great, I love it. And then Monday morning comes and they're stuck in traffic for an hour and a half. So I think we owe it to ourselves. I actually think it's the most important decision we make. You know, It's as important as the job and career we do. It's as important as the person we take as our life partner. We give those two things at least a

measure of thought. We get very little thought. We just make snap decisions when it comes to where we live.

So that's what I think, and really think about it, you know, and try it, don't you know, maybe if you think about it, it's one thing, go try the darn commute, and and that goes with a car, and you know, I remember a couple of times thinking, you know, I lived in a place where I could take transit and I wouldn't have to drive, And then I want and try it out the transit, you know, after I had moved, and it was like two and a half hours because the subway didn't connect to the bus, the

bus didn't connect to the subway, something else was delayed. So, whether it's a car commute or a transit commute, try to try the thing out and and see how you really like doing it. I don't we just try it at once, try it out for a little while, and see if it fits you. If it's making your miserable, if it's making you miserable, rethink where you might want to live. Yeah, Franciscan and I were just talking about how I never consider commutes times when I'm looking for

apartments and I've certainly paid for it. And I think many people think the commune will just sort of work itself out, it will get figured out, but it doesn't, and it's and it's really the thing you do. Some of us do every day. Others of us do it less frequently, but we have to do it. It's probably also something people should think about not just when they're considering a new home, but considering a new job, which

probably people people don't take into consideration nearly as much. No, people get all excited um with the new job and the new home because the grass is always greener and it always looks better, and they never think about, well, what is that going to do to my day to day routine? But yeah, so I think I think being close to where you work, are close enough to have a reasonable commute is something both in terms of getting

a house and in terms of getting a job. The two sides of that so called journey to work where you live and where you work are critical. Well, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us. Thank you this is a really great subject, and thanks for having me on. As it becomes harder and harder to live near where we work, we're seeing companies create some

of those solutions to commuting as a way to attract employees. Facebook, for example, is building this huge campus and it's going to subsidize housing for employees nearby, So it's trying to encourage people to live in an area they might not want to. They probably want to live in the hub of the city, but they can instead be really close to work and not pay that much for housing, so

hopefully they don't have this soul sucking and time consuming commute. Yeah, we need big solutions, Like there's only so much that individuals can do, because, as you say, we're moving further and further from where we work and that isn't likely to change. So the problems kind of have to be solved at the company level or at the city level, like what Facebook and Miami Beach are doing, rather than

individuals being responsible for making their own commute better. Although, as you said, thinking about where you're gonna live and where you're gonna work a little more carefully is important if you can do it, and there's probably some ways you can make a terrible commute slightly less terrible. Becca, you told me you actually kind of don't mind commuting, right, Well, I consider it work time a little bit, you know.

I listened to our episodes and edit them. I do emails, and I know a lot of people that if their teachers great papers on the train. So I think if you do reframe it as productive time, then it doesn't feel so horrible when you're getting into work an hour later. I don't know yeah. I think that's one important thing is actually keeping track of how much time you spend in your car or on the subway and not imagining

that that time is just like disappearing time. For me, it's almost two hours out of every day, so I should think a little more carefully about how I'm spending it and maybe not spend so much time playing phone games. And now it's time for half big takes half fake takes. You can call us with your half big take leave a voice amount two one to six one seven zero one six. And this week's listener half big take is

on topic. It's about commuting. So my half big take is when you're coming to work on the subway in the morning, it's really crowded um, and you have all those people standing up when people sitting down try to get up before the subway stops, and everyone's standing has to make extra room for them. I feel like everyone should just stay seated and stay in their place until the subway stops and then everyone can get off. It just makes me easier to me when the when the

subways are really crowded. Anyway, I really enjoy the show. Thanks. I'm acting viscerally to this because I have very strong feelings of agreement. Um, I think it's basic subway etiquette. People do not stand up while the train is still moving. You will fall over on top of somewhere somewhere else. And the laws of physics state that people won't de materialize and they can't get off the train and get

out of your waye, So no one's going anywhere. I think there's a whole genre of where to standing on subways, getting on, getting off behavior that could be some really good happy take materials. Yeah. I think us as New Yorkers are very adamant about our subway etiquette. Probably car coommuters have their own things like don't cut me off and re Becca, what unbaked idea do you want to share with us this week? Mine is about the spelling of your and your apostrophe are e and the other one.

And I think we need to be nicer to people who make that mistake. This is shocking coming from a journalist. Feel like, Okay, it's just sometimes your fingers just type some thing. It's true too fast, hit enter, you're not thinking it's not, doesn't. I don't think it's a marker of your intelligence. I think why you are if you spell if you intelligence, Yeah, exactly, it could be a

marker of y O you apostopheary intelligence. I mean, I just I think we there's a couple of spelling errors like that that people they're there and there to too and to yeah, that people get up in arms over and I just don't think that it's meaningful at all. Well, yes, and you know the difference between a chronic error maker

and someone who's just had a brain part. I've done it myself, and I'm familiar with the horror that comes over you after you've sent someone a text that's like, no, it's your turn to do this, but you spell it with an apostrophe, and you're like, how did I do that? I know better? Yeah, but you just did it and it doesn't mean anything, and we should be nicer to people who do it. It happens to the best of us. I'm certain the smartest person in the universe has done it.

So that's my hatpic take, Francesca, what is your not done idea for this week? I'm struggling to justify this as at all work related, but it's definitely half baked. But okay, so maybe it's work related. If you imagine that, Like, you might be at a company picnic or work event and you are compelled to take a picture with somebody you don't know that well, like your company CEO or something. Right, what do you do? You smile for the camera, and you put your arms around each other. You put one

arm around them and they put one like a half hug. Yeah, don't you think that's kind of weird that that's the DeVault photo pose because it's kind of intimate. But if you were to, like, Okay, the reason that came up is because I saw a Facebook photo of somebody I know who works in the music industry posing with Bonnie Rate, and my first instinct was to be like, oh, wow, him and Bonnie Rate must be really close. But then I was like, no, that's just how you stand for photos.

Bonnie right put you know, was kind enough to take a picture with him and put her arm around him. But like, I'd stand around with my arm around you in the office or any coworkers or even my friends. Like it's sort of an intimate post, don't you think. Yeah, I think that there's some another show out there that could really dig into the history of why we stand like to it on my commute. Yeah, but you can't.

I mean, it would be terrible if you were. If you were like, oh, well, you take a picture with me, and then the person just like stood by your side with their arms at their sides, so you have to do it. But it does suggest like this closeness that someone you probably have never touched before and never currently figure out where to put that hand. I was, I'm always I'm obvia, I'm very bad at it. You can imagine. Yeah, just something I noticed and I guess this has been

half big takes, half baked takes. Thank you for listening to game Plan. You can find me on Twitter at Francesca Today and I'm at RZ Greenfield and you can call into our hotline with anything you want at two on two six seven zero one six six. We also have a weekly newsletter. You can find it at Bloomberg dot com slash Newsletters. You check the game Plan box and you'll get a sweet email from us. It wouldn't

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