Why Getting Fired Hurts So Bad

them today. We're going to talk about the emotional side of getting laid off. You're listening to game Plan. I'm Sam Grobart. I am a writer at Bloomberg business Week magazine, and I'm Rebecca Greenfield. I'm a reporter a Bloomberg where I cover workplace culture and I want to start off with a little bit of history and talk about the word layoff. I looked it up and the online Etymology

Dictionary says that vas seasonal labor with periodic inactivity. The word layoff came to have a sense of temporary release from employment, but by the sixties was being used somewhat euphemistically for permanent releases. Of masses of workers. Yeah, there seems to be this distinction nowadays between getting laid off and getting fired. Right, fired sounds like four cause, whereas getting laid off is more of a cost cutting move. But they both result in the same thing. You don't

have a job anymore. Yeah, It's like getting laid off is supposed to sound like this nice thing where you're supposed to feel better because you didn't do anything wrong, right, and yet you were picked as opposed to other people who may still be there. Right. And companies have even moved away from the word laoff to use even more euphemistic terms to make people feel better about their plate. Like I saw the other day to tweet saying that

Bridgewater isn't laying off employees, it's quote renovated in the company. Yeah, they're going to have this great new caesar Stone countertop in their kitchen after they renovate. Yeah, I mean, I mean they're they're renovating the company in a way that will be no room for you. Right, they're redoing the kitchen and getting rid of your bedroom. Basically we're selling your bedroom, honey. I remember in the nineties companies would talk about not so much downsizing, but right sizing, See

it's all going to be okay. Is that supposed to make you feel better? I think it just makes you feel worse. And I think companies know that, and that's you know, euphemism exist for a reason. They are there to cover up something, and what they're covering up is something very harsh and very dramatic. And we're actually going to talk to someone who has recently gone through that. Brittany Ashley used to work at BuzzFeed. She doesn't anymore, and she has very courageously agreed to sit with us

today and talk about the experience of getting booted. Hello, brittanys in good are you? I'm well, thank you? Why don't if you don't mind, um, can you kind of walk us through what happened? So? I worked at a company that I wrote a lot of videos for and acted in videos and whatnot. When I started with it, it was a newer company. They were still figuring out, you know, rules, regulations, what they allow employees to do.

And so I acted in something that I suppose I wasn't allowed to that it was on the weekend, and it's very unclear whether or not that was against the rules. Because other people did that and whatnot. Yeah, and it got brought up to me right after a trailer for

that series came out. I got brought up to me by a manager and they asked me questions about it, and I kind of thought I was in the clear, Like I talked to some of my co workers and they're like, you're fine, Like they're not going to fire you. That would be insane, and then zoom passed to Three weeks later, I get called and to a meeting at five thirty pm on a Thursday, and I get canned.

So it was kind of it was definitely shocking and I and that's the only job I've ever been fired from, and to be fired from a creative job that you've been working out for so long was kind of like a wet just like tears come out and you're like, what do I have to do? And then you like feel weird and pathetic and sad. If you can remember, what was the first thing you did after you were fired? I mean, you are in that meeting room, yes, and

you walk out? So what happens? So they fired me and one other person at the exact same time for the exact same reason because we're both in it, and so a lot of it was like trying to take care of this person who was breaking down next to me, and I was kind of the more stoic one, which was a really interesting experience. We fired at the same time as someone else, Um, so you both were in the room together. Yeah, it was it was the HR woman, It was yeah, Yeah, it was an HR woman who

I had never met until that day. And then it was someone kind of higher up who I've maybe had like one or two conversations with. And then yeah, and then me and my coworker who were both fired at the same time. So my instant thing was just to take care of this other person because she was like just breaking down, like balling, crying because that job was like her dream job and it wasn't my dream job. It just like it was really brutal to get fired and to put your time into something that you know

gets taken away so quickly. But the interesting thing is that they held us in that room. So after we were told that we were getting fired, the HR woman was like, actually give me like five minutes, I'll be right back, and they left the room and it was just me and that other coworker sounds like a psychology experiment. Yeah. I like I was looking around for like cameras. I

was like, oh god, what are they doing. You have passed the exactly Honestly that was going through my mind of like I didn't want to like trash talk the company or be like yeah, whatever, fuck them. I like didn't say anything because I was like, is this some weird like manipulation scheme. I just assumed that they were like going through my desk and like taking you know what I mean, like taking all my ship or like packing it up, or like wiping my computer. I just

assumed the worst. But yeah, So they held us in there for like twenty minutes, and my coworker had a phone on her, but I didn't bring anything with me. I didn't think I was getting fired. I thought I was going to be told to not do it again. Um. And so she had her phone on her and she was like texting a bunch of people that we worked

with saying what happened. And I was just like phoneless and I had nothing, and um, as soon as she came back and she was like, oh, yeah, by the way, you guys are still fired, Like I think it was like some weird It was some weird thing where like she wanted us to feel like she was going to change her mind at some point. But then I found out later that she went upstairs to tell there was like a whole manager meeting where she told everyone that we got fired, and it was like this big deal.

It was really weird. And then she came back down and was like, yeah, unfortunately you're still terminated it and I was like okay, and then yeah, then I walked to my desk and started to clean out my desk and was crying. And the girl that I was casually seeing at the time was there. And that's also a really weird thing to happen when you're like casually dating someone that you work with then you get fired. Uh,

there was a whole another level that we did not consider. Yeah, and um, my writing partner was right across from me, and I told him that I got fired, and it was so weird, Like the floor was just silent, and um, I was crying and other people were crying because it was not necessarily like, oh my god, we lost Brittany, like she's dying, but it was more like, oh, this could happen to us at literally any moment, because we thought that you were safe, because you were someone that

has paved the way for a lot of people that have worked at this company, because you were kind of one of the original creators here, Brittany, like you, I I too have been fired. Oh yeah, yeah, I felt like and in the years since that, I have a different kind of under standing of the relationship between an employee and an employer. And that's not to say I have worked at some really great places since then, and I you know, I genuinely really like working here now.

But no matter how much I like my job or feel that the company I work for, you know, is a good place to be, I still now have this little piece of black coal in my brain that it's like, you can never ever really trust them, right, Yeah, it's not because it's not a human being. It's a corporation and ultimately they're kind of out for what's the best

for their business. Yeah. It's crazy to hear you tell the story of the day you got fired and how quickly the relationship to the company changed, like oh god, yeah, and how it felt really weird to you, And I imagine it feels really weird it's really weird, and it continues to be very weird because is a lot of people that I'm friends with still work there. Obviously, it's one of those companies that's like any time you go into any social media, it's just like all over the place.

And then to like go through your clothes and you have so many clothes with that label on it, and you're just like, I feel like I can't wear these anymore. Yeah, it is, you know, like except yeah, your your girlfriend is a large corporate entity that yeah. Yeah. Another thing that struck me about your story was even though you you knew you did something wrong a little bit and you just even said that wasn't your dream job, just the act of getting fired seems really painful, no matter

what the situation is. Like you said you were just crying. I imagine I would just immediately burst into yours in

this particular situation too. Obviously it was kind of public, and you know, I'm a writer, so I take things personally, and to be fired from a creative job that you gave so much of your writing to and you wrote about so many personal topics, it feels like it makes you feel kind of dispensable as a person and as a writer, like creatively, it really messed me up for for I mean, it's still kind of messing me up, to be honest, but and it's given me quite a

bit of writer's block because it's like, welly am I writing this anyways, like if it's just gonna if someone's just gonna fire me, and it's a weird It definitely does feel like a breakup in a way where it's like you've been cheated on before, been broken up with before something, and then you just take it out on

everyone else for the next like two years. Yeah, I was going to ask how you're feeling about working now besides the writer's like forming another relationship with a company or yeah, I mean, I it's definitely given me more of a perspective as an independent creator that that now it might be my chance to become a little more independent in the way that I'll write something that I really care about and then I'll pitch it to places.

But it's kind of on my terms, and I can pick and choose if I want to work with a company, but I'll work with them as if we're client. It's not that they're my boss. I think that's kind of the relationship I'm trying to have right now, in the relationship I think you can have as a creator that you're not, you know, under a contract with them as

an employee full time. I think that's what I'm trying to do right now, because yeah, I don't think I could go and be someone's nine to five employee right now, especially if they owned intellectual property of what I was doing. It would be the exact same situation, and I feel like I would I would be more afraid to do that.

So I think now it's given me the approach that I want to be more independent in the way that I can kind of choose which relationships I have, and that feel like I'm under the reign of just one, if that makes sense. I was wondering. I mean, I know it's still what's been like three months now, June, Yeah, like three three and a half months, so it's still fairly recent, and I'm sure it's still really stings, um, but I would pose it that barring it causing real

personal calamit, everyone should get fired once. Yeah, I mean,

I think it's a kind of a necessary experience. This sounds so weird and like jaded and angsty, but I think you need to have the experience of needing to distance yourself a little bit from um a corporation, or from a company, or from a job even and realize that you know, it's not a forever thing, and that at any given moment, you or the company can choose to depart from one another, and that I think you kind of have to look at jobs as temporary and

you know, do the best you can while you're there, but realize that it could end. I mean, it's like a relationship in those ways, but I think it is necessary. Though it definitely stings, but it gives you a perspective that I think is necessary. Great. Well, thank you so much for coming and talking to us about this painball topic. I'm sure that it's not fun to rehash those emotions, but I think I think it's interesting for everyone to hear every working person totally. I think so as well.

Thanks for being so candid. Yeah, you got it up. Happens when the power and potential of every employee and leader in your workforce is released, and corn Fairy can get you there by aligning your people to your strategy, attracting, developing, engaging, and rewarding them to reach new heights. With corn Ferry, you get a partner who truly understands people, leadership, and the new landscape of work, a partner who knows how to take your business up. Learn more at corn Ferry

dot com slash up. So Brittany is obviously still dealing with the emotional sting of being fired. I mean, it just happened a few months ago, but I also wonder if that sticks with you for the rest of your career. And I don't think I have to wonder very much because Sam, I am fired, That's right. Uh, not from here, um, But I'm I am happy to tell you that fifteen years after getting laid off, it still is with me.

It is perhaps one of the most oddly defining moments of my entire career for me, and it was horrible when it happened, and I'm very, very fortunate that I've been able to kind of bounce back from it, but it's still kind of haunts me, and it's changed my

entire feeling about my relationship with my employer. And I definitely went through a period where I switched jobs a lot, I think, And yeah, let's talk about how it changes the way you view your employer, because that was something that stuck with me from Brittany's discussion, where you know, you think of this place that's kind of like your family or your friends, and then that they turn around and are so harsh to you so quickly can be

really jarring. Absolutely. I was fired when I was twenty seven years old, and I had only worked at two other places at that point in my life, and prior to that, I had been in college. And college is a great community and you kind of carry that with you even after you've graduated and you start to probably apply it to the places you work. And then I was cast out of that community. I was told leave,

we don't want you here. And yet I had established close friendships with people there, and I continued having those close friendships afterward. But it was very hard for me because it was like they were still it was like I broke up with somebody, but all my friends were still dating her, and I was hearing about things there, and I had to kind of be like, oh, yeah, that's that's great. Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad they're happy,

and that sounds really cool. Um, Yeah, especially now we're expected to have so much of a social life at work, especially at a place like BuzzFeed, I imagine, and the places that we've worked, you know, you're supposed to really dive in and throw your whole self into your job.

That to me is is something that has happened a lot in the last say twenty years, where companies take on all the trappings of a place that is safe, in a place to enjoy yourself and hey, look we've got all these perks and everything is much more casual than it used to be. Until a company, if it decides that it's not in its interest to have you work there anymore, will act decisively and to some degree mercilessly.

And that has not changed. It just becomes a little bit more complicated when all this time they've been sort of putting their arm around your shoulder and saying we're on the same team, right. Yeah, that stresses me out. I have not been fired yet, given that I've managed to continue working and move on to other jobs and other things, I now look back on it as sort of a character building event. But I suppose that's what anybody who got fired would say. Anybody who now is

in your position and is like doing okay. Right, If you're doing okay now, you're like, well, then I guess that was part of the journey or what have you. But I definitely feel I know that I feel more cynical about a company that I work for now than I did before. And and maybe that would have happened over time anyway, just a general cynicism that comes with age. But it was a very sudden education and and I really thought, like, this company loves me and I love it,

and we're gonna be together forever. And all of a sudden no. And it wasn't hey, we're going to give you the heads up and in two weeks you kind of gotta get on out of here. It was you're laid off, pack up your things, get out. Yes, I mean it sounds like, yeah, you've built up kind of a shell. And maybe that's that's the best that we can all do, is Yes, I just think it could be realistic. Yes, be realistic. Recognize that these are businesses.

They have bottom lines, they have investors, they have stockholders, they have whatever it is. And unless you have a contract or you're in a union perhaps where there are certain agreements about that. If you are in the kind of work that we do where it's at will, then you are effectively alone, and that becomes starkly real to you when you're told that you are no longer working.

There Another thing you can do, which I learned from Sally Cratcheck, who we had on an earlier episode to talk about money, was that you're supposed to have what's called an F you fund? What does f you stand for?

A bad word which is just like a StAst of cash to use when you need to like say f you to a boss or your partner or you know, it's just money, so you have and in the context of what we're discussing today, it might also be useful when a company basically says f you to you exactly, but I want, since we're talking about the emotional side of things, what is the like emotional version of the FU fund? You need to have an emotional nest egg. You need to have some sense of yourself outside of

your job. It's so easy to identify yourself by the work you do. And I didn't realize that until my job was taken away from me, because it's suddenly just kind of shattered me, like I was, like, who am I what's my purpose, what's what's the whole point? And nowadays I feel like I can identify myself and feel good about myself in lots of other ways, my job being one of them, but not the only one. And so if you can figure that out without getting fired,

well then you know you're in the high country. I feel like our show is often like Becca, like, once you're like a little bit more mature, like feel like when you're older, like you'll feel better. And now we're going to move on to half baked takes. Half baked takes this is the part of the show where Becca and I share some not fully formed opinions, observations, and analysis about the workplace, or for that matter, anything that we are really thinking about this week, Becca, why don't

you lead us off? So my half baked take is almost a fully baked take. People should not complement other people on their physical appearance in the office. This is a controversial opinion. I've talked about it with a lot of people who give me like, but what about this scenario? And I just think that best practice. Don't do it. I've been made uncomfortable multiple times. Physical parents includes clothing. Just to clarify I really like your dress, right, great haircut,

cool glasses, none of it, none of it. I don't want that at work. I think you're probably right. I think that I have said complimentary things to coworkers, but usually, or in fact always, they are people with whom I feel like I have a pretty real friendship with. You know, we've been working together for years, and like we've hung out its case by case for sure, and I've I've also done it, like I found myself complimenting of female coworkers cool pants, and then I'm like, oh, I'm such

a hypocrite, So I don't check myself anyway. That's my my three quarter baked take no compliments. Well, mine is actually also apparel related and gender related. In fact, as we come to the close of summer, men, fellas, if you work in an office, here's a little thing. I don't ever want to see your knees. Okay, shorts have no business in business save him for the weekend. Okay. I know that this is a popular opinion. I've seen it.

I do think the exception is if it's really really hot out, so what because it's over air conditioned, because you're all wearing pants and stuff you know what, I on the hottest day of the year, I will wear pants and it will not necessarily affect me so terribly. What's wrong with news? What you got against him? I just think that I don't know. I can't give you a rational response. I can just say that I don't

want to see them. If there's also this holds true by the way, for like, if there's an office party, like you know we're all going like the boss's house to the pool. No, a lot of people wear shorts to our company picnic. Yeah, see, I wouldn't. I just don't ever think you should. I'll make it. I'll make it about me, very conservative, and you will never see my NaNs period. I think that's also three quarterbacked. We have a we have a take and a half man.

We can just do one next week. Yeah, okay, great, And this has been half big takes, half baked takes. You have been listening to game Plan. I am Sam Grobart. You can find me on Twitter at Sam Grobart. Our guest Brittany Ashley is also on Twitter at britt to seven and I'm at rs Greenfield. We'll see you next week. Take it easy, get the most from your people and send your business soaring with corn Ferry. From executive search

to talent strategy, leadership development, rewards and succession planning. Corn Ferry knows Up is more than a direction, it's your future. Learn more at corn ferry dot com. Slash up did it all for the Knookie. The Knookie, I've just been listening to early B fifty twos this morning, so I'm a little bit