What to Do About Your Office Crush

Oh it's so hot office romance. Let's get right into it. My first question is why why do they even happen? Isn't work a place that you go to get work done. What are people doing getting all sexy with each other? It's true, and especially because everyone sort of agrees that this is a bad idea, but you know, I think it really starts with the fact that we just spend so much of our lives at work. I mean, when

you're not sleeping most of the time you're at the office. Yeah, I'm playing dumb, but I actually think that it's reasonably obvious why these things do happen. When they happen. Work is kind of a breeding ground, I think for for a romance. You're around these people all the time that you work with. It's a it's sort of a safe

place to experiment with whether you're compatible with somebody. Like in normal life, if you like somebody, you have to contrive a bunch of reasons to be around them to see if you actually really get along and are attracted to each other and want a date. The office is a structure that's all set up for you to do that. Every day. You can, you can chat, you can have your little office inside jokes, and you can kind of cultivate a crush on somebody over a long period of

time without anything being inappropriate about it. It's also sort of a filter. You know that these people likely aren't serial killers. You see them at the office, you probably know something about their background, and you're not just you know, flipping through pictures on an app. Yes, they're not just some rando that you swept right on or left. And also they're likely to have something in common with you. You know, you at least work in the same field.

Um maybe you have similar job functions, and so that that is kind of like a preset baseline level of compatibility that you know you have. So that's all the reasons why it can happen, um, and why it does seem to happen so often. In fact, the stats on

this are pretty clear. Um. There was a survey from the Society of Human Resource Management that said one in four people have had an office romance just about So it happens, but there's a lot of ways it can go wrong, right, I Mean, the conventional wisdom is, though it happens, it shouldn't. Yeah, and then I think we should just like break down all the reasons, um, even

if it seems kind of obvious. So just to start with, in the best case scenario, when the relationship is two sided and everyone's happy, it can make it hard for the people working around you. I mean, you have created this sort of very different relationship, and maybe you're on a team with other people who have to work and

sort of understand those boundaries and how they've shifted. It's it's sort of unfair to them, and people are going to question whether any of the achievements that you've made are things that you've really gotten on your own merit. If you get a promotion or if you get some kind of special treatment or favoritism. And in fact, in that same s h RM survey, companies who said that they had a policy that forbids office romance cited that as one of the main reasons that it could cause favoritism.

The other reasons were the potential for sexual harassment claims UM and then retaliation bowl when relationships don't work out, using the workplace as a place to take it out on their ex partner. And even if there isn't, you know, some sort of formal retaliation because of a power dynamic. There's definitely emotional risk here. I mean, you're working with these people all the time, assuming you want to keep

your job. If the relationship goes south, you're going to be stuck working with someone who you probably have pretty mixed and potentially sad feelings about. Yeah, I mean, it's it sounds awful. It's just like high school. You have to show up every day and see the person that you broke up with. Doesn't matter if you unfollow them on Facebook and Twitter. There they are every day and you have to figure out a way to contain your feelings and keep working. So from the company perspective, how

do they handle this. Yeah, So I talked to Edward Yost from the Society Human Resource Management, the authority on all things HR, and I asked him why so few companies have a policy on this, because according to that survey, youer than half actually even have a policy. And here's what he said. It's always a safer place to go to have no policy than to have one in place

that you don't adhere to. Uh. And that I mean that means that if you have the policy in place, you must be willing to part with your very best employee if they violate that policy. If that's what the policy says, that it's a zero tolerance you will not date one of your subordinates and you find out that

they are, you must be willing to do that. The other really interesting thing we talked about was in some cases where companies do have a policy around office romance, they require these things called love contracts, which I'll let

him explain. Essentially, it's a it's a contract or or a document that acknowledges from both parties that there is a consensual relationship, that there's there are no undo pressures being put on one employee or the other to become involved this relationship, and that if something weren't to go wrong with the relationship, that is essentially their personal business, and that they're going to keep the personal relationship out of the office as much as possible, or the fights

aren't going to happen in the office. They're going to remain professional. And another thing that he really hit on in our conversation was how badly it can go when the people in a relationship are in a supervisor supervisor or a manager employee relationship, when there's that imbalance of power, there's so much other stuff going on. It's really no matter how genuine you're feelings for somebody might be, it's really hard to have to do your job appropriately as

a boss if you've brought that element in. And even if you start off a relationship where you have sort of parallel positions, it can switch and someone can become the boss. Someone can become responsible for doing things like annual reviews and things like that for a partner, which just sounds like a whole crazy god yeah or deal, or you weren't working on the same project and now you are, and suddenly you have all these new questions to answer. But instead of just sitting around and scolding

people for having office romances. I think we should accept that they happen, and there's got to be a way to deal with it when it does, and to get some help with that. I'm very excited about our guest today who is an expert on all things relationships. Cheryl Strait is a best selling author. Her books include Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. For years she wrote an advice column called Deer Sugar, and now she co hosts the Deer Sugars podcast with Steve Almond. Cheryl, thanks for joining us.

It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. So you must get a fair number of questions in your long career answering relationship questions that have to do with love at the office. Absolutely, I mean there's no We spend so much time at work, whether it be an office or other kind of job, that it's inevitable that people are going to become attracted to each other. And the sorts of letters that I get, and now in my work with Steve on the podcast that we get,

they sort of fall into three categories. The letters from people who are saying, look, I am feeling really attracted to a coworker. And you know, sometimes that attraction is between two single people. UM. Sometimes it's somebody who's married, And so there's that other layer of saying, you know, I'm attracted to my coworker and he or she is married, and so am I? And what should we do? And really somebody who's trying, I think, to resist that attraction

for a number of reasons. Um. And then there are people who are saying, Okay, we made the leap. I fell for somebody I work with and we had an affair or we had a fling, or we had a relationship and now it's ended or and now it's gone in this direction that feels kind of ikey and negative and what how do we How do I work with

somebody who is essentially a former lover? And then that third category are the people who just really fell in love and they happen to work together, sometimes in different, very different roles where there's a power difference, which is always complicated, And the big question there is, you know, how do we manage this at work? Do we keep it a secret? Do we do we tell everyone? And what do we do? You know, what do we do here?

It is we are in love? And the fact as we work together, so when you're facing I mean, these are very different kinds of questions and dilemmas. Do you have particular rules or guidelines that you sort of think apply to office romances? I mean, how do you look at those three different categories and try to advise people on what they should do? I think it's always complicated

when we are talking about love and lust. I mean, most of us realized that that area of sort of human sexuality and desire and emotion, those emotional connections we have um sometimes with people we spend a lot of time with. We most of us know what we should do. We most of us know that the general rule is don't bring romance or sex into the office or into your job, your work life. Keep those things separate. And the reason for that very clear line is that it

gets really complicated when you don't. Most of us would say our most important areas of our lives are our careers, in our in our family or home, or romantic relationships. And when you put the two together, it could be really great or it could be really terrible. And in some ways it has the potential if that relationship should go bad to you ruin your your work life, at least temporarily. And so the first advice I have with anyone who's asking questions about this is, you know, really

try to avoid it. Try to keep those realms separate, to avoid those complications. But the fact, as we are human and you know, we don't live by guidelines, most of us will cross many clear lines in the course of our lives, especially our love lives. And so the biggest piece of advice I give to people is really, um, be very mindful with each step and and to think, try to think as clearly as possible about how to keep those realms separate even when you have mixed them up.

As you said, most people know better what what do you? And yet it happens like office romance has happened. So what do you think is so enticing about getting into relationships with the people that we work with. I think I think it's just a great venue frankly to meet people, which is really unfortunate. Some of it is really just sheer numbers. I mean, you're spending several hours a day with these other people. I think that most of us, you know, I work alone. I'm a writer and in

a little podcasters. So you know, I don't really go to the office and work with other people that when I used to have jobs, I you know, fell in love with those people. I mean, you grow to know and care for people you spend time with as a general rule, unless of course you loathe them and despise them.

But you know, if they're generally good people and you're generally compatible, it's no surprise that what you know, when you share that time together and you start to share those friendships and intimacies, that sex and love and romance

are going to come into play. I mean, one of the first pieces of advice I would give to people really who who aren't yet in any kind of tangle when it comes to love or romance or lust at the office, is you know, to try to keep it from happening from the outset to really embrace a very firm boundary when it comes to the kinds of feelings you're gonna allow yourself to have. I mean, to the extent that we can allow ourselves selves to have feelings, to really set that boundary and say I am only

going to be friends with with people with coworkers. I'm not going to um allow myself to have those feelings, and if I do start to have them, I'm going to do everything in my power to to shut them down turn away from them. That's almost always easier said than done. But I do think that there is something

to be said for intention. I know a lot of the advice I give people about other situations, when you go in with the intention, with the consciousness, if you will, of not doing something or making sure that you don't go down a certain path, I think you're a lot

more successful in preventing it. Are there certain hard and fast rules that you think about when it comes to you know, like this is a firm boundary you absolutely should not get in any sort of relationship with a boss or you know, if you're doing if you're working on a project together or something like that. Do you think that there are harder rules that are like really really knows. I think honesty really is the best policy

and in almost to every regard. And I know that a lot of people out there, maybe people listening, and certainly people have written to me. You know, We'll get into a relationship and with somebody at the office and think, okay, as long as we keep it a secret, we're doing due diligence in terms of keeping that out of the

workplace and not letting that relationship interfere with work. But I think that that's actually wrong because of course the relationship exists, and so what you're doing is not only bringing that relationship into the office, you're also bringing a

lie into the office, a secret. And you know, I think that it's much more fair, um, not only to one's co workers, but really to the two people in the relationship themselves to be honest about it, to be out with the relationship so that so that you know, everything is on the table, everything's seen, that everything, every possibility where a power dynamic might go the wrong way or might be um you know, called into question when it comes to two ethics or so forth, that that

everything that all of the people who are involved UM with that situation are aware of the different dynamics that go on. You know, my husband and I don't work at an office, but we sometimes work together. And I can't imagine UH doing a project with him and also trying to pretend that there isn't this other layer of our relationship that's really about something that's not about work

at all. And you know, I think that. Of course, sometimes that kind of truth telling can cause a lot of strife at the at the outset, a lot of people will be upset or have a lot of questions about what dynamics might be going on with these you know, we've got especially a supervisor um and in in somebody who's really uh a boss a boss employee sort of relationship. But I do think that that that kind of transparency is almost always the best way. Secrecy never leads to

good things. And when something is right out there, you can discuss it, you can make decisions, you can put people in different departments, give them different responsibilities if that is of any concern. And you also just don't have to have the burden of a secret to keep. And also, even if you think you're keeping something a secret, there's a pretty good chance that at least some of your

coworkers know about it. Right, Well, that's it. And I think that when we do withhold information from other people, even if we have good intentions, people who get involved relationships who say let's keep this separate, you know, let's just keep us out of the office, and and you know, one of the arguments I think a lot of those people make you know, it's like, you know this saying that we're in a relationship would only cause trouble essentially

for for our our employment, our employers and our coworkers. But you know the fact is that the secrets, as you say, are almost always revealed. The and withholding information is a kind of lie of omission, and people feel betrayed by that. So in your work, what are some of examples of letters along these lines that have really made you think or that you think are really tough issues when it comes to love in the work? Is there anywhere you've really struggled to sort of figure out

what exactly is the right thing to do? Yeah, I think really the most complicated scenario is a situation where you know, a boss has you know, fallen in love with and started a relationship with somebody who reports to him or her. That's a really complicated dynamic. And and and then on top of that, they they work in in a situation where they can't be transferred to a different department or that you know that that dynamic can't be obliterated except if one or the other of them

quits the job. And that that's also the scenario where people are most likely to keep secrets because the boss, if you will, doesn't want the other employees to think that here she is favoring his or her lover. But of course, you know, there there's that undeniable loyalty that comes from, you know, the people we are sleeping with. You know that that we feel towards people we are

sleeping with and in love with. And so you know, even if you go out your way for that for that relationship to not to interfere with that boss employee relationship,

it almost always does. And so you know, that is a really I think difficult situation to navigate and and sometimes really the only ethical answer, the only practical answers to say, yeah, that that somebody needs to find a new job, and usually it's the person with the least amount of power network situation, um, and those are those are hard things to do, now, you know, I do want to say that I'm sure there are people listening out there who are are sort of shaking their heads

at us because they work with their partners very happily and very peaceably and without conflict, and they work with many co workers and there are no problems. And you know, I think that's true too, I think as much as we're saying, like try to avoid a real romantic relationship in the workplace, the fact of the matter is as they exist, they always have existed, and they probably always

will and they don't always go badly. I think if you have a really functional work environment that is all about communication and transparency and mutual respect um, and that that that the two people in the relationship are not who they really do, go out of their ways to not you know, make work decisions based on that romantic alliance.

I think it can be done with some grace and and to me, the solution to this, you know, this problem that we're going to have throughout time is not to say never ever ever do it, and if you do do it, you're going to be punished, but rather to say it's not a good idea because it's complicated, but we're capable of dealing with complexity, that we that we do have the capacity um when we rely on that open communication and that ethic those ethical um sort

of decision making processes, that romance and the workplace can coexist on occasion. I think that kind of sums up the whole issue. So it's a good place to end thank you, Cheryl Straits so much for for taking the time if to us. Oh, thank you. It was great to talk to you. So, as Cheryl said, I think the easiest way to get around all this is just

by not getting into office relationships to begin with. But since it's going to happen, sometimes the second best way to deal with it is just by being honest, even if that's awkward for you and potentially your coworkers. Yeah, and just be aware that if you're not honest, people are going to figure it out eventually. I once worked

somewhere not here, and I'm not just saying that. It definitely wasn't here, but a coworker was like trying to tip me off to some office gossip, and so she asked me to look at um, somebody who is pretty senior, to look at their public outlook calendar. And I like looked at it, and there was some vacation days blocked off, you know, some needings, nothing out of the ordinary. And I was like, Okay, what am I looking at here?

And then she's like, now, look at so and so's calendar, his female colleague, And I looked at her calendar and she had exactly the same vacation days blocked off, and I was like, Okay, oh my god, wait, I know them people just dine out on this kind of gossip. Like you, you cannot be too You can't be careful enough to keep this from your coworkers, so you may

as well be open and honest about it. And I think, by the way, those two people, they dated for a long time and they ended up getting married, and I don't think they still work together, although I'm not sure, which is another thing that I think that you have to consider, like both in the case of office romances that go well and everybody everything works out happily and people get married, which Cheryl did say, like these things can work out both in those cases and in the

cases where they go really badly, your best bet is to not work with that person anymore. So you might have to find a way. No matter which way the relationship goes, you are probably going to have to find a new job or a new position in within your company. And that really means waging whether the relationship is important enough to you to make such a significant shift in your career. And now it's time for half bake takes,

halfy fake takes. You can call us and leave us a voicemail if you have a half big take you'd like to share, and we might play it on the podcast. It's two and two six s zero one six six. This week we have a listener happy take from Jeff. This is Jeff from New York, and my half bake take is that if you commute on public transit, it's completely appropriate and acceptable to ignore people from work to

take the same route. The most interactions should have as a smile and a nod my community, my podcast to be compressed time, and the last thing I want to do is make yet more small talk and remind myself of work relatedly. It's completely unacceptable and should probably be a human resource of offense to corner someone on the commune to discuss work issues. I know people can be hard to pin down, but there are some lines you just don't cross, and we need to respect the commute bubble.

There is like nothing worse than getting stuck with talking about work things or with work people on the subway. And I say that even about people that I like. The first thing in the morning, you count on that time between being at home and being at work, and if you don't get it because somebody has burdened you with work relationships on your commute, it just throws your whole day off. I agree, I totally respect Jeff's dedication

to the commute hour. I do think that it's a little bit better in the afternoon, like in the evening if someone wants to chat briefly on the way home, But early in the morning it's lately I feel like I have timed my exit at times when I've seen somebody like a few feet ahead of me on the escalator to make sure that I don't get stuck on the same train as them, just because like there's not

enough to fill the whole train ride home. So like, let's say you start talking with somebody on the way out, and it's like fine, because it's like, Okay, you had a few things to catch up on that you didn't get too during the day. Is there that project? But then it's like ten minutes into the train ride and you're done talking about that, and it's like, oh, now what do we do? Yeah, I will say it's a good time. Very on theme for this episode, it's sometimes

a good time to catch up with gossip. Though gossip I think is always welcome if it's good, Jenny, what is your not fully formed idea that is so important you have to say it on a podcast. When it comes to ice breakers, I think you should not be allowed to ask for very specific answers, like I'll give

you an example. I don't think you should be able to say what's your favorite song, your favorite artist, your favorite TV show or movie or whatever, because I think it's too much pressure and people freak out and you're judged by this, like remembering a name in a moment of panic, and it's just too much. And who really has favorites? Like it's kind of psychotic to have a real if you're not a six year old who's like, favorite TV show is Arthur and favorite color is yellow,

Like you should don't really have favorites. You should have like a few things that you like a lot that shift every six months or so, and a lot of times people just pick a go to favorite thing that they know sounds cool, issue yes, it's very performative, and like who knows if that if they even like that thing, or if you're like me, you get totally paralyzed. Like somebody asked me once what my hobbies were, and I

literally I couldn't remember a single one. I was like, I think I do stuff, and then I had to text him like a day later and be like, oh, I play the guitar, just so he knew. I promise I do something. I promise, I promise I have hobbies. But being asked of you have hobbies like it's it's

along the same lines as what's your favorite movie. It's like you're signaling virtue, You're saying something about yourself, and so the implication is like, you must have hobbies, you must have ways that you cultivate yourself as a human being, right, and then you're like, I must what's your half bag take Francesca my half bige take, which is very half because I it's sort of a problem with that. A solution is I don't know what to do with that moment.

After you've had lunch with a colleague, and usually at these lunches, you know you've gone over a lot of stuff.

You've talked careers, you've talked gossip, and then you kind of like one of you walks the other back to their desk or kind of drops somebody off and keeps walking, and there's like such an awkward moment where you kind of have usually have to cut your conversation off mid sentence or stand by somebody's desk and like try to let the conversation come to a natural end because you're you've been in this social mode for the last like five minutes to an hour, and then it's just like

I never know what to say, so I always end up saying like Okay, good lunch, Like okay, bye, see you later. Thanks, What do you say? I don't know. There is the awkward thanks. It's like why why are you thanking them for having lunch with you? I think we need to come up with a special phrase that you can just like signal okay, we're done having social lunch talking time and we're going back to work now.

But it's got to be something that's like just unique to that scenario that's that's weird, or like in h in sports when you end the huddle and you're like break, Oh my god, that would be so good break, and then you just like disorient people and they kind of look at your funny and walk away. Yes it could be good. And this has been half bag Takes, half bake Takes. Thanks for listening to another episode of game Plan. You can find me on Twitter at Francesca Today, and

you can find me at Jenny and Kaplan. You can tweet your half bake takes at us or anything else you like. You can also call us and leave us a voicemail at two and to six one seven zero one six six And if you'd like to hear from me Rebecca and sometimes Jenny maybe even throughout the week, you can subscribe to our newsletter. Just go to Bloomberg dot com slash Newsletters and check the game Plan button.

For more episodes of game Plan. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, on the Bloomberg Turbinal, and wherever you listen to shows like this. This show was produced by Magnus Hendrickson and Liz Smith. Head of podcast is Alec McCabe. And we'll see you next week. Oh we can. Like we always talk about work life balance, but what about work love life balance. It's not bad to start writing this is in pain um