How to Get Dressed for Work

of us, I still have some work fashion questions. I've just been afraid to ask. Well, that's all going to change today. This is game Plan. Hi. I'm Francesco Leafy and I'm Rebecca Greenfield, and this week we are talking about what to wear to work. This is a something that feels like it's super related to actually like doing a good job, but it turns out that even if it shouldn't, what you wear actually matters. I hate that it does because I want to live in a world

where it doesn't matter, but people judge you. Yeah. Um, And there has been like a weirdly high number of studies done on how what you wear affects how you work and they've come up with all kinds of conclusions about the psychological effect of your clothing on your productivity

and just like how you feel about your job. There's one study that said dressing up at work so kind of like dressing a little more formally than whatever is expected of you at your job, helps you with creative thinking because basically it makes you feel like a big shot and therefore like you're you're high above the fray. You don't think about like the small details, you think about the big ideas. I remember another one that was that found that the people who wore suits in the

study ended up negotiating for more money. They had to do a negotiation, So it was like, you feel like important and powerful and big, so you're throw and you get more powerful. Um. And there's also the converse of that, which is that if you wear casual clothes, one study showed that that makes you somehow better at carrying out instructions. So I guess like it actually it can be good, but it sort of makes you feel like you're less important in the office, but it makes you good at

following directions. Maybe that's why a lot of industries, like service industries have uniforms. I mean, I don't think that's only why, but you know they want workers to fall inline. You're one member of a very big workforce, um, and your uniform reminds you of that. We also, in a Bloomberg article a couple of years ago, wrote about how

wearing branded clothing makes you more confident. So if you have a logo on your clothes, that can that can increase your confidence, and further more, you can actually take on some of the characteristics that you associate with that brand. So like if you're wearing Nike shoes, I guess you'd people were inclined to just do it, So it's not necessarily the brand of your own company, but just lame brand, right like that that the logo makes a difference in

how you feel about what you're able to do. I mean, it's kind of crazy how much of an effect our clothes end up having on how we think about ourselves. Yeah, it's not just that people are looking at you and judging you. You're you're internalizing what you're wearing. So whether you like it or not, what you wear matters. But figuring out how to dress the right way, even if you know, kind of like what you're going for isn't always the simplest throwing on a blazer um or a

power suit. There's there's no manual for how to transition your wardrobe when your job changes. Yeah, there was the whole debate about this, saying that the office dress code has gone away, so it's even harder now for people. I don't know that I necessarily agree with this, but there's the idea that before everyone just wore business casual um and that for a man meant like khaki pants and a button down, and for women it was one of those a line pencil skirts. But now there's probably

a lot more variety in industries. I would say that still within industries and offices there's a dress code, and and we did an episode on this about a year ago looking into the office dress code and if it's dead or not. We argue that it's alive and well, but I do think, yeah, it's there's more variation with among the industries now. I think that variation can be tough because I think it actually ends up meaning that there are still rules, it's just harder to figure out

what they are. So it's easy enough if you know everybody at your job wears a blazer, just have to find the right blazer. But when it seems like there are no rules about what you wear, but you know that there are kind of secret codes and people are following them, and there's all this variety and what you can buy and what people are saying it's okay to work.

I feel like you walk into that without a background of dressing a certain way for work, and you can get really confused, and that's kind of annoying and inconvenient. I remember when I first started working, I was working in d C, which is much more formal than here New York. People wear business casuals. So I just bought a bunch of skirts and tops and I did wear them for probably the first six months of my working life, but have not touched them since because that's not really

how people dressed in our industry. They're probably not in style anymore. Also, yeah, that was a while ago, and I don't I don't even want to know what I was wearing. And they were probably cheap. There's a lot wrong with that. But I had like the I think

the pain points here really are transitions. So it's like when you go from school, you know, college are graduate school to professional life, or you go from one industry to an industry where everybody dresses kind of different, or you just go from kind of a lower level job to a higher level one where you're expected to wear more formal clothes, and how you plan for those transitions. That that's the thing, I think where people really don't

know what to do. Like I remember I bought an interview suit that was probably the first suit I ever bought, um right out of college, and I bought it from and I remember exactly what it looked like. It was like it was a it was a what do you call it a skirt suit. I mean it was like a skirt and a blazer, and it was linen with like this was like white linen with this weird kind

of metallic plaid pattern over it. And I thought it was like the classiest, fanciest thing I've ever seen at the time, and I thought it looked great on me, and I'm sure it's like instilled me with all kinds of confidence that those job interviews that I wore too, And then I just continued wearing it and it was like the only suit I owned for literally like ten years because I worked in nonprofits right out of school, and it just like wasn't a it wasn't a suit

wearing kind of place. So once a year, when I had a meeting that was important enough that I had to wear a suit, I throw on this suit and at some point I realized, like, I only own one suit and it's ten years old. And that's like, I think you get yourself into these bndes. Yeah, And even if you're not transitioning to a different industry, what happens to me is every time I start a new job,

it's in the same industry. I am like, this time, I'm gonna dress better than I used to, And I go out and I buy some like upgraded work where and then I wear it again for about six months and then I'm back to my uniform. Yeah, you always go back to your default, but you can only really dress like you. Yeah, So I think I will learn well. I think the question is how do you dress like you and also dress for work? And we have an expert here who's going to help us with that question

and many more. Chris Browser is the editor of Bloomberg Pursuits, our Luxury and Lifestyle Vertical and just an all around stylish guy. So, Chris, we're going to ask you to solve some of our big fashion problems. But before we get into that, do you have a general philosophy on how to dress for work? Like, what's your big idea about this? So my big idea is that less is

actually more. You don't want to be out there trying to be the flashyest person in the office, not only because you just can't keep that going for such a long time, but also if you wear flashy outfits, people remember that outfit and then if you have to wear it again in like four days, people will remember that you wore it a few days ago. Whereas if you have like a bunch of staples and things that you rely on, but you kind of always look the same and you can kind of wear the same clothes over

and over and over again. Yeah, I definitely wear the same black jeans and just assume people think I own twenty pairs and black jeans. Yeah, that's that's the thing. Um, Like fashion people are known for having uniforms. A lot of fashion people, you know, they work at Vogue, but they wear black, just sort of simple black shirts and pants, and that's because they know, like you can't you kind of can't do it every day if you're trying to

be a sort of flashier make a statement. They just it's easier just to look like you and have people not really pay attention to it. So you mentioned the uniform thing. There was a big debate I remember, started by the New York Times, of course, where they argued that it was the end of the office dress code. Where do you fall on that the line of that debate, I think we actually right now we're kind of going back into an era of formality. I it's sort of I get a sense of a grown upness and what

people are wearing. I think for a while, uh, when sort of hipsters ruled the roost, everything was open plan and you know, norm core was kind of the look. People kind of became a little bit more shlubby, I would say, like five years ago. And now, you know, offices are realizing that a little bit of formality actually helps. So people are getting offices again. Um, people are wearing lace up shoes, and I sense a sort of return

to let's get dressed up, let's be adults in the office. Okay, speaking of schlubby, when is it okay to where means at the office, because my my answer is like always, but I could be wrong. I mean, I think it's different for women and men. I think women can wear jeans in a way that looks a little bit more dressy than men, although sort of dark washed jeans are kind of always a reliable, uh staple. Do you think there's an age or a rank in the office where

you grow out of jeans? I've been worrying about this recently. Am I too old for jeans? Do I look like a college student? I think it depends on the workplace. I think if you're in an office where a fair number of people wear suits, then if you are at a level of seniority where you manage people, you probably are getting to the point where you can't wear jeans that often. So kind of like, look at the people

above you maybe see I think my manager wears jeans. Yeah, I mean, well we're journalists, right like we people wear shorts to this office, you know, other people are a little bit more formal. I remember my brother is a lawyer at a hedge fund, and I remember the day that they started being allowed to wear jeans, and he would wear what he would normally wear, like a sort of button down oxford, maybe a tie, but just replace the pants with jeans and you have the whole outfit

has to make sense together. So you know, if you're if you feel like it's a little formally you have to dress up on top that you're throwing jeans on,

that's probably misguided. This is probably a good time to ask about work transitions, like when you do have a change in dress code at the office, like you just described, or you go from uh one job where things are slightly more casual to a job where things are more formal, or you just go from school to work, like you've been in graduate school wearing sweatpants every day and now you have to have a work outfit. Like how do you deal with this, the need to basically suddenly change

your whole wardrobe. I mean, I think what you can't avoid is a big shopping trip, you know. I I've switched jobs where I'm like, oh, I gotta like upgrade my wardrob But you sort of try to do it piece by piece, but then you're still really kind of wearing the same stuff you always were. You have to bite the bullet and just go shopping and buy a bunch of things, and so you know, if you don't have a ton of money, go to a place like

top Shop or Zara, have good clothes that fits. Um My, the blazer I get the most compliments on is one from top Shop, and I definitely have ones from more expensive places. Um. And then the other thing I would say is throw away the things that don't fit you. Everyone has stuff in their closet that's like, you know, oh I wear this, I can put it under a sweater and like it sort of fits, and or like this tie has a stained on it, but like you know,

if I if I button my blazer, no one sees. Um, gotta throw that stuff away because you're gonna be tempted to use it, to wear it, and just get rid of it, and then that will elevate your sort of baseline wardrobe. And finally, when you're shopping, I think the key thing to remember is get stuff that fits you well. Don't get stuff that you necessarily think is particularly you know, more beautiful than fits well. Like fit is the ultimate expensive looking attribute. If your clothes fits you well, it

looks much more cheek and much more expensive. Then if you have something made up some wonderful fabric or whatever that was from a fancy label that doesn't fit you as well. When you talk about going on a shopping trip, my immediate thought is, I don't want to spend so much money. So is there a hack for people who are budget conscious or who just don't have the money to spend on a whole new wardrobe. The real answer is to have, you know, kind of a uniform where

you can swap in and out things. So if you're a woman, go get, um, you know, some pants, get some simple dresses that you can accessorize and that you know, sort of are the blank palette on which you can build a bunch of different outfits that look different even though you're really kind of wearing the same clothes. Like for men, I often recommend go out, get three suits, get them wherever you can afford them. Um, you know, get a gray one, get a navy one, and then

maybe get another color. Um. And you know, if if it looks nice enough, you can wear the blazer with a different pair of pants. Uh, And you can. No one's really looking at your suit. They're looking at your tie and your shirt and your shoes and your socks. So if you have those three things you can really rotate it around. It's like Marge simpsons sannel suit from the Simpsons, you know, like you can you can make

a lot of looks out of one suit. What about something that you kind of can't get away with saving on, Like, is there one thing that you think everyone should just blur? John m Yeah, that's a good question. I think. I think you can't overestimate how much your shoes affect the way that you look. And uh, bad shoes fall apart. They look bad really quickly, and if you don't take care of your shoes, it just makes the whole outfit

looks schlubby. So um. You know. For men, I often say, go get a pair of black laceups, brown laceups, maybe a brogue, and then take really good care of them. You know, go to a shoeshine place. It costs four dollars, get shoe trees and keep them in the shoes so they're stretched out. And the same thing with women. You know, get shoes that are comfortable, that that accentuate any outfit

that you can wear a lot. And you know, if you're wearing a nice outfit, but then you're wearing sneakers or like super comfortable office shoes that throws the whole outfit out of whack. So I think the shoes are actually really a good investment. So women often have this issue in the summer of being cold in the office because most off is a really over air conditioned and

having to have some kind of sweater strategy. And this is often like a fleece you don't really care about that you can leave over the back of your office chair, or some piece of swag that you got as part of a gift bag for a corporate event, and it never goes with your outfit, and it's always really obvious that, like, you got dressed at home and now you're cold and you're walking around in this thing. How do you deal

with the office sweater problem? Well, first of all, I'm glad that we're talking about the office temperature issue because as a longtime listener to this podcast, I know that this is a recurring theme. And also I said on the same floor as you guys, and can attest to the fact that there are constant temperature wars on our floor. Um Like literally you turn around the like one corner of the floor and it's like you're walking into a sauna. And um so I also have an office sweater and it's, uh,

you know, it's a dark cardigan. I'm not necessarily like a cardigan person, but it's the same thing as what you're describing. You kind of have to have something like that. I think the best solution is to wear something dark, um and that fits you pretty well. It's not super slubby um that you can button up or not button up. That that's almost like a blazer in the way that it could potentially make your outfit look a little bit

more formal when you put it on. Like there's been times when I've had to go on TV here and I wasn't wearing a blazer and I put on a cardigan and I'm not saying it looks amazing, but it's sort of solved the sort of visual graphic issue. And I think that's probably your safest bad you know. I think somebody else might tell you just to go schlubby and just be like the look, I'm not trying to look like, I'm just trying to be warm because you jerks are turning the temperature down all the time. Um,

So I don't know. I would go for the sort of neat and trim thing, but definitely someone else might tell you just to love it up. So if you're passive aggressive, you get the ugly hoodie to be like, people make your up. I think you know, I would stop short of something that you have to pull over your head it put on, because that is a really aggressive a look be you can mess up your hair and it's just like you're like, I've given up. You know,

I am fully covered up. There's no chance that I might have to dash to a meeting and like look nice and like this is what I look like today. What about the opposite temperature problem that men have, which is in the summer, it's hot out and they can't wear shorts to work, or maybe they can according to you, I'm not sure. I suspect you'd say, now, um, so how do you dress in that scenario? So this is

a real issue in New York for guys. I mean, I can't tell you the amount of times I've showed up to work and I've like sweated through my clothes. And I know people who bring other shirts to work. You know, Um, I think you have to for me, I have to sort of find out what my like heat points are, so like my ankles get very hot. That's like a touch point for me, and so I

will often do that. Look where you, uh, you're wearing like little no show socks in your shoes, sort of nice stress shoes, and then you kind of roll up the ankle the ankle of your pant so that you get a little like breathing there. I think, Um, you know, depending on where you are, maybe that's maybe that for you. Is you wear a nice uh button down shirt that is actually short sleeved and you wear it with a

tie or depending on where you are, maybe air tie. Uh. You've got to just figure out, like where you can vent your heat. The ability to wear shorts really is just based on what where, what your office is like. Like, there are definitely engineers in this building that wear shorts every day in the summer, and I know exactly who they are. If I see them out on the street, I'll be like, you're the guy that wear shorts every day. Um, And I think because we have a broad range of

people here, you can do that. But if you're in an office where almost everyone we wears a suit, you absolutely cannot wear shorts. I want to get a little deeper into the shorts thing, because deep, yeah, let's do it. Let's ask the hard questions because I don't even I've never worn shorts to the office, and I don't consider myself a particularly formal person. But that's like one threshold

I haven't crossed yet. Are there rule for if you decide you're going to take the punch and you're gonna try to wear shi I know it depends on your office dress code, but like, should you always wear a certain type of shoes or should you do something else to your outfit to balance at the shorts wearing. That's a good question. Um, I think that you have to have the kind of outfit that people look at you and you're they're like, oh, that is a fashionable person

who made a choice to wear those shorts today. That was like, the shorts are the best thing for that outfit. So for me, that would be, you know, well tailored shorts, maybe in a color, not just like some khaki shorts that you would wear on the weekend. You wear a nice belt, perhaps a colored belt, and then you have to wear a dress shirt on top. Uh, And I would say you have to wear either very clean, new fashionable sneakers or um, or a simple dress shoe with

a no show sock. So yes, there are rules. Cha. Yeah you said just took me right out of the running by the way, like, oh that she made a ancho's fashionable choice. No gane shorts? Okay, well so if you but if you wear a skirt, you don't wear tights with them? I mean, like what you dress? Skirts and dresses are easy, I mean you might wear tights. Yeah, I don't understand the difference between like a skirt and

a pair of shorts for a lady. Well, I guess there isn't like if you could certainly wear a pair of shorts that are the same length as a skirt, it's just they're shorts, And I associate shorts with like with very casual wear or like active where. Um, I don't know. I guess maybe this is my hang up. No, I think the stigma against shorts is gender neutral, Like

it's just that's the only option for men. But it's not often you see a woman wearing shorts in the office, right, Yeah, Like, if we want to, we have a lot more options if we need to be cooler than men do cooler temperature wise, so you can just you can throw on a skirt or a dress in the summer. Are there work where trends that you're really into these days? So I think for men, we're in a good period of suiting where people have gotten away from the standard navy

and gray and sort of pinstripe suits. There's a particular color of blue that um we that has been for the past two or three years kind of taking over the world. But it's it's this slightly edgier, slightly more vibrant, almost royal blue suit, which I think is really handsome and more and more sort of you know, straight middle of the road. Guys are wearing suits like that that fit really well, and I think that's a really good look, and I encourage people to explore colors outside of sort

of the standard. And then for women, I think there is kind of this pressure into um, the work where thing which you have written about for us, UM, which I feel like sort of pushes you into um kind of like a sheath dress sort of look a lot that feels like the most flexible basic But I I love um. You know, women who just really like a great tailored pair of pants and like a great shirt. I think that's a really cool look, and I think that's very now and I hope that continues to be

the trend. This isn't the first time we've asked for your input on this, but I want a final ruling from you, and we'll make it our final question. When is it okay for men or women to show their toes at work? I think it's different for men and women. I think women, if you have a nice pedicure and um, you're you have a nice pair of shoes, I think,

especially in summer, it's pretty okay. Um for men. You know, I've thought a lot about this, partly because you guys have asked me this before, and um, I used I have evolved done this. I used to be a person that thought that you could wear like a nice sandal to work, and now I am not one of those people. Um, and I think, sorry, what's a nice men sandal brand? I asked you that last time. Yeah, you know, there are nice sandals from Gucci. Um Fending makes them. You

don't have to go that expensive. I mean that's a little over the what are they are they like? What's the shape I'm picturing here? Oftentimes that they'll cover a lot of the front of the toe, so there's at some front of the foot rather the bridge there's UM, there'll be a lot of coverage and UM, it'll usually be made in leather. I can't think of another material

that I would recommend. Uh, and they it's basically more shoe than flip flop, and I think that's sort of a safe but you want to cover as much of the foot as you can. UM. I think that it is okay to wear open toed situations at an office where almost nobody wears a suit. If you were in a workplace environment where like if someone wore a suit, you'd be like, whoa do? Like what you got a job interview? Like, then you can wear open toe shoes. But if there is a modicum of people in your

office that wear suits every day, then you can't. To me, as a man, wear sandals. I feel like that's a great role of them. Yeah, well, Chris, thank you so much for coming in here and solving all of our fashion problems. Becca. I know you won't toot your own horn here, so I'm going to say it, but I think that you are kind of low key the poster child for exactly the fashion philosophy that Chris was espousing listeners.

You can't see Becca, but she wears basic, simple, stylish clothes that are not so flashy that you would notice if she wore them again a few days later. But they fit you will thank you. But I don't think I'm professional enough still. I I think I could dress a little bit nicer, and I see the professional woman's clothing and I'm just don't want to spend money on it, like a nice blazer or I just bought nice pants,

and you can ask my sister. I spent at least a day complaining about how much money I spend on them, and they weren't even that expensive. But I thought talking to Chris made me realize that you can level up

without going crazy expensive. Yeah. I was actually surprised that for somebody whose job it is to run the luxury vertical, which writes about fancy things all day every day, he kind of came down pretty hard on the side of like not overspending on clothes and not airing on the side of fashionable designery things, but actually finding clothes that

fit you well. And that's such a good lesson. It sounds so obvious, but I have so many choices bad choices I've made in my past where I'm like, oh, but it's designer, or like, oh, but the fabric is so pretty, and really when I put it on and I look in the mirror, it just doesn't look that good. Yeah, are you want to buy into the latest trend and

it goes out of style so fast? I think that's maybe why you perceive me as someone who's just does the basics thing, because I it takes a lot for me to spend a lot of money on something I don't think I'm going to wear a lot, So I tend to not buy the really trend driven clothing. That is another I think really a solid tip in general though, just like if you're if you're going to make an investment in clothing, it better be something that is versatile

and can last you a long time. And that means like it's not going to be the you know, off the shoulder what do they call that style shoulder where it's if you're not aware of this fashion abomination, it was very big this summer. It's like there's a sleeve, there's a long sleeve, but there's no shoulder to the sleeves are often Yeah, and so I apologize to any listeners who wear this trend. I'm sure you rock it and look amazing, but it's disgusting. It needs to stop.

I also really like to shoe suggestion, which is invest in shoes, which I medium do. Yeah, I cannot buy really cheap shoes because they do break really quickly. Here and he talked about also repairing or like taking care

of your shoes. He didn't mention repairing, but I think that's another that's another kind of pro tip that you don't really realize this when you're young, but eventually kind of get hip to the idea that you can actually get a lot of life out of shoes because when you wear down the heels, you could just go and get the fixed at a new pair of shoes. Yeah, so you can save and you can look expensive and look professional, and we're here to help you do it.

And now let's help you. Here's some half big takes, halfy fake takes. If you have a half baked take you'd like to share, leave us a voicemail at two one two six seven zero one six six Becca. What is your half bag take this week? My half big take is that there is no reason to have a ring tone on your cell phone. Set it to vibrate, and that says office related because there are many people around me that have ring tones. One they either remind me of my alarm clock, which is horrifying, or they're

really specific songs. I didn't know there's still a thing. I thought everyone just used the standard phone ringers. If you're trying to say something about yourself with your ring tone, you're not saying anything good. You're saying I don't care

about people other people in the space around me. This is a This is a very real office problem because people do walk away from their desk and leave their phone behind, and I do have a phone alarm that goes off every day, um, and I feel so so so guilty on the occasions once in a while when I leave it at my desk and somebody's like, I had to turn your phone alarm off. I've gone up to people's desks and that's totally within your rights, I think.

But but the ringtone it does stand out because it's like, not only is this person in considerate and they left their phone behind, but they made this weird choice to have, Like Pacabell's cannon announced that they're you know wife is calling. Yeah, I don't know, just no, you know who you are. Maybe office buildings could have some kind of special laser sensor thing that automatically turned everyone's phone to vibrate as soon as they walked in the docks. Tech people get

on this. Another great idea, fantastica what's your half? Big take? I want to talk about a well used but little discussed power move in email, which is I feel like the more senior people are, the less descriptive and less

grammatically correct their emails become. So it's like sending somebody a sentence fragment email that has no punctuation and kind of doesn't make enough sense or like doesn't answer the question that it's responding to is a signifier that you are too important to care enough to like even read your email over once and make sure it makes sense. And I feel like very senior people do this. And it's also like people who maybe have a philosophy of

responding to every email. So it's a way of saying, like, Okay, this response didn't make any sense and didn't help you. Um, And also it comes off kind of rude because it has no punctuation. But at least I responded within thirty seconds of you sending me the email. I think that I have a defense for this a little bit. And I think it's people who treat email like texting do it or like chatting, So when you're in an email convo, which is not how email should be used anyway, that

might happen. I also think this was a thing on Twitter for a while where people would not use punctuation and have grammatical errors and there was no capitalization, and I thought it was, yeah, like a signal of coolness or something. Yeah, I will say I actually tried this

the other day. I don't really remember what got into me, but I spent a day responding to emails like this because normally I kind of agonize over my emails and they're too long and they're too worthy, and people don't read all the way to the end, and I read them three times to make sure they make sense, and I still end up with like award echo in there, and I feel stupid about it, And so you care about the echoes or like a cut and paste error

where a word appears twice or something, and then I'm like, I can't believe I did that, And so the other day, I just all day. I just maybe it was because I actually was really busy. I was like, I don't have time to reread this, and if they don't understand what it says, they'll just ask me for a clarification. So I sent a bunch of like kind of crappy emails that day, and I will say it made me feel really powerful. It was a high. I'm all about the email and power moves. And this has been half

Bake Takes, Half Baked Takes. Thank you for listening to game Plan. You can find me on Twitter at Francesca Today. You can find me at rs Greenfield, tweet us or half Baked Takes, or call into our hotline at two and two six one seven zero one six six. It's not too late to go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and leave us a nice review, five star rating, subscribe, do any of those things. If your heart so desires.

Do you want our newsletter? I think you do? Go sign up for it at Bloomberg dot com slash Newsletters. You can find us under game Plan. This show is produced by Liz Smith and Magnus Hendrickson, head of Podcasts. Is Me See You next week. Bye. How do you dress like you and also dressed for work? Good question,