If you work in a corporate environment, the chances are pretty good that at some point you've had to take one of these workplace safety trainings where they teach you how to avoid getting hit in the head by open file cabinet drawers, or how not to slip and fall on a spill. But what they might not teach you is what to do if somebody publishes your personal information online or uses your work phone to make harassing phone calls.
This is game plan. I'm Francesco lead and I'm right back at Greenfield, and today we are talking about workplace safety, which usually calls to mind something like this. Now as so far as we get down to business and talk about safety, you know, for something strange reason, people seem to consider office work as being free of any danger. What could happen to anyone working behind a nice safe disk? Uh typewriter, bites girl. Here's an industrious looking fellow with
his mind on his work. Best trapsman. These like retro workplace safety advisories are kind of like, they don't ring very realistic to us, and they're an entire genre on YouTube. Yeah, I've discovered they're also very gendered. Usually it's usually like the pretty but dumb secretary who you know, spills coffee on everyone else and usually the thing, the accidents they're
getting themselves into are like outsized for what happened. You know, It's like I spelled coffee and somebody like slipped and fell and died. Right, So it all, it all seems really silly and over the top to us, But there was a reason that these videos kind of came about. Yeah, so the workplace originally, before we all worked in offices, are our biggest problem was back injuries and paper huts. The workplace originally was an unsafe place and it is
still for some workers. I mean about factories, right, mining those type of workplaces, Like it's it's serious, you know, people can really get hurt in real ways. Um, but now we all work in offices, which people can still get hurt and sue their companies and file for disability. And so that's why we now have these workplace safety videos so that companies can basically cover their butts so they can say, we told you that this might happen, right,
and then we covered every possibility. We had to watch one because I know it's like burned into my brain that I'm supposed to tell someone if I spilled something. I spilled something a whole bowl of cereal, and I did tell someone exactly, so it works. It works. Yeah, I was totally indoctrinated. There's a funny Wall Street Journal article that I came across from We're like making fun of over the top safety measures um and it talks about all the ways that companies and their employees take
these things really seriously. So at the headquarters of Chevron, everybody gets a small white card that says stop work, and if you see something dangerous, you're supposed to like whip out the card and tell people to stop working. I have never seen anything dangerous enough workplace environment that I would that I would whip out a card of any kind to stop it. If you saw a power cord on the ground and you're like, no, guys, stop work. But okay, I know we're making fun of us. But
safety is an important topic. Some statistics say that injuries are down and have been down in the workplace for the last thirteen years minus one year, and that I think that might partly be because workplaces are just in general work is safer. I'm not sure, or or companies are putting in place, you know, more of these safeguards because they're that scared of getting sued. And now that we all kind of work in this more connected environment, there are more ways to be safe at work, and
those ways aren't necessarily addressed in these helpful videos and trainings. Yeah. I think a lot of us work online or our lives are online, and there's this confusing blending between what's work and what is your private life, and that can lead you into situations where you might be having some sort of conflict or being harassed online and it's like am I at work? Am I not at work? Right? And people can find out more about you if they don't like something you're doing in your role at your job.
It's easier for people to learn more about you based on your kind of online profile. And the interesting thing is that it's not yet really clear when these situations arise, what your company should or can do about it, if anything. Our guest today is going to talk about her experience as a journalist writing a story that got her harassed online and what that did to her as a professional.
And before we get to the interview, a warning to our listeners that the topics we cover are sensitive and intense. Lauren Duca is a contributing editor for teen Vogue, where she writes about politics and culture. Lauren, can you start by telling us about some of the work you've done lately and how it's put you in the public eye. Sure? So it has been sort of a crazy month because there were kind of a couple of things that forced
me into bad inbox climate. Uh So, And early in December or like the tent, I published a piece that went viral called Donald Trump is gas lighting America, and that sort of received its own set of controlling and support. And then two about two weeks later, it was the twenty three I was on Tucker Carlson's show on Fox to talk about actually something separate, but that came up, and then um Martin Scarley got involved with trolling me as well, and he was suspended from Twitter. So that
was sort of the third thing. And I don't really remember what like normal life is like. It's been a sort of exchange time, and it's been interesting as well, because each thing brought its own specific version of response in general, but like the harassment and the tone of the harassment was specific to each event, so I almost feel like I could write like a taxonomy of trolling
at this point, like different subgenres ftrolls. It's interesting to hear you say you don't know what normal like life is like anymore, because now that you're not in the immediate aftermath of any one of those things, what is your professional life like now? Like what happens when you open your inbox in the morning and you start your day. So it is really bad. Still, I can't believe these people still have so much time on their hands, because
I would have thought it would have died down. And also just anything I put out into the world is now gardners, so such an intense response and so much bigger response, and that could just mean tweeting. But then at the same time there's people creating email addresses like Nazi pussy grabber and just bombarding me with messages about how I'm going to be. I guess like a sex toy in camp Trump, which is I don't know, a fictitious concentration camp um. So it's it's very it's a lot.
It's a lot, and I don't actually know if I know how it's affecting me yet because I haven't really had any time to step fully back away from it, but I definitely feel like my chest has not really been released from this type feeling since early December. You mentioned the different flavors of trolling, and I just wanted to know if you could give us an idea of the type of stuff you're getting and the volume twitch you're getting, and how it interacts with your work life.
On Christmas Day, I was getting like death, rape, and doxing threats and but even to more some of the subdued ones. I responded, and I said, not to a lot, just to a couple, but does it bring you joy to send a message like this to a stranger on Christmas Day? Just thinking that seeing that would have some kind of wake up call moment for these people? And their response was get raped. Um, I don't know what words were allowed to say, but runs with bunt and yeah.
So this is not people just having a bad day and feeling angry and like being able to humanize me. It's it's like this concerted effort and like these, like a these a lot of emails that I think are all from the same person because they're all like a lot of the Nazi camp Trump stuff follows a similar format where it might just be one guy sitting and
like doing a generator to create these emails. And then because they have the same tone and the syntax is really similar, so I almost think a lot of it it could just be a couple of people, but that doesn't necessarily change the way it feels. And the thing that's really hard is that I opened my computer and I can't not see it. So it's like I can do my best to ignore it, and I've gotten better at that. It was strange at first because or I
a lot. I didn't know how it was making me feel at first because I was kind of performing a reverence and making fun of it and you know, be like you're a whole and it would be like why you are to be like you know, it's it's it's it's you are, like it's not that's not a correct grammar, and it's like that's still some of it. It's like I can write it off as lunatics and and I can make fun of it, and some of it is
just like crazy. And then so sort of unleashing it to my followers, who are mostly people who are following me because they like my writing or support the work I'm doing. Then having that kind of influx of we have your back, don't you know, here's a picture of my dog. Here's like that kindness come through has helped, but it also was hard to be acting through it and acting tougher than it when and kind of admitting to myself that it's okay for it to hurt your feelings,
to have people say I mean things to you. That's allowed, and like, I don't have to be tougher than that because I'm a human being. And um, yeah, so I I think now that it is more of an it's dulled, but it's still takes an impact, and it takes part of my time and energy every day, and that feels incredibly unfair. And it's a hindrance on my you know, distracting me, it's making me less product TV and it's just like a limitation on what I could be achieving
in each individual day. And that adds up. Are you concerned for your safety at all through any of these messages? There are a few that were concerning I don't know how specifically should talk about that because I just don't want to give anyone ideas. But the thing is that it's like it only takes one. Like, I've had people reach out to me who have been docks or hacked or and had to move or should we just clarify
what docksing is for anyone who doesn't. Sure, Yeah, that's just when they put your information up to make you feel super unsafe, or for people to send you who your home address and your identifying information. People have sent me crazy tips for things that just make me feel even more out of control because it's the tips are
things that are just like, oh my gosh. If people can get a burner phone to do two step verification, and because they can impersonate you and go into your cell phone carrier store and get a new SIM card and then be able to hijack your phone and then hackened everything through there, It's just oh, like what that's that's so that was not even I felt like, thank you, this is helpful, but in my had I'm just like, Jesus, this is so crazy. That was unsolicited advice. Yeah, yeah,
from somebody like experienced. Yeah, and he's like, if you see no service in the top of your phone, that means they got it. I'm just like great, Yeah. Everyway, every time we ran the subway, yeah, who knows the thing is. It's just like they all could be something, but they're all probably nothing. But it only takes one, so it's a it's all just like honestly it's a form of terrorism because they're aware of that and they know that their threat is it carries a weight of possibility.
I mean, I had a female journalists reach out to me and say it only took one doxing threat for to get docked. So it's sort of just like I'm bracing for impact. And I mean I've done some preventative things, like my husband I got LifeLock, which is, um it's a service that it has an insurance policy and alerts you if your information is being used in any way online.
Like even that annoys me, Like it's like, really we had to spend seven hundred dollars to get this, just you know, because but I mean it's sort of like what can you do for workplace? Done any or that. I know you're a freelancer, but have the places that you work for done anything, um put any resources behind it, giving you any anything? No, you know, they've been compassionate about it, and uh, I don't know that there's so
much that they can do. And I know even when I was at hof Post, when dealing with this a little bit, there's just like it's like, we're sorry, and it's so it's incredibly unfair that they're sort of just this shrug of like that's the world, isn't it, Because that's the world, isn't it? For women? Specifically? I think that that thing that's what's so incredibly troubling about it
is that it's on me as a freelancer. It's this theft of time and energy and then within in a workplace where it's just like another stepback that women have to take on, and as a freelancer, it's it's it adds to that sense of and I would imagine that sort of sense of insecurity you already have as a freelancer, which is kind of like the burden is on you to handle any kind of financial hardship that comes up
or in position on your time. And you were saying, you know, this is both something that takes your time and money to kind of protect yourself from, but it and it rightfully distracts you from from doing your job, which is coming in and writing stories, Like have you
communicated that to the outlets that you work with. Have you ever had to say, you know, I needed any extra time to work on the story, or I need or whatever you've needed, Like have you expressed needs to them and have they been understanding or have they reached out to you know, but that I haven't. I have a very strong, never missed an lend policy and I
just try and take care of everything myself. Um. I mean that might depending on how it is or how it devolved, that might that would be something I would consider, um,
But it's talking specifically to place some pitching. But the other thing too, is like in terms of if my Twitter account or my Gmail were to get hacked, that would be so sort of like if I was in an office setting and I was a staffer somewhere and then that happened, they would deal with my email and work that out for me and be able to re establish everything, or they might at least at least on email gets hacked, right, that would be something your employer
would deal certainly. But it's sort of like now, especially like all of my networking, all of my connections, all my contacts are built out for those I mean and now I've taken there would be ways around it, and I could find you know, presumably the editors I work with wouldn't just be like, Wow, she's gone, but it still would be that would be a huge robber of resources in a way that it wouldn't maybe affect somebody who was on staff full time. So I'm definitely more
vulnerable in terms of what can be taken from me. Um. You mentioned this article you wrote Routine Vogue about your Twitter harassment, and one thing in the piece you talk about is that you're not going to just opt out. I know that that is something that people can do. I I've also experienced some of this online harassment and it has pushed me away from wanting to be on these platforms because it's distracting from my work. UM, why
have you decided to not opt out? I feel very strongly that the goal of the harassment is to silence me, so I have an sense of obligation of not proving that I have not been silenced. Uh, And I maybe that's stupid and stubborn because it is getting in the way of my work. So like, practically speaking, I could probably tone it down on Twitter and that wouldn't like affect my finances directly. But also I've gotten most of my work this year through connections that started on Twitter.
And you know, I got hooked up with teen Vogue. The aditorial director reached out to me. He liked he knew about my writing and liked my presence because of my Twitter account and now working for teen Vogue and this art, like this has totally changed my career and it was all started with a connection formed on Twitter.
I think that we think like Twitter is some silly, stupid waste of time, but it's it's been incremental for me, especially this year going freelance, which is hard, and you have to form a lot of different connections and maintain them and have this little garden of like in many ways, Twitter is your workplace. It's it's a virtual location where you do your work, and and so being attacked on that platform is like, you know, directly taking it like
the place that you work. Yes, so I don't think that that would necessarily be helpful because it would feel like a failure to people who are watching me get harassed and who are arrested. And I part of the reason why I was sharing some of it. I don't want to I think I need to I'm going to take a break from engaging with it and even like making fun of it, because I you know, I think I've done as much of that it's gonna be productive.
But my goal with that was just sort of revealed how it's happening and what it looks like, and because I'm I'm scared that there are young women who are starting writing and think that they're writing is so bad or so annoying or so horrifyingly awful to these people bombarding them, that they that they're being that they'll be
shut up. Um And I so I'm refusing to be shut up because I want to weather this and work towards a world where it's just not common to get like a photoshop version of you in a gas chamber. I don't know, Like, is that so much to have? I hope. Well, thank you so much for coming and talking to us. I know this is a really hard our topic to talk about, and it's unfortunate that part of your work life has to be this way and that we have to think about safety in a completely
different way now. UM, So we really appreciate it. It's really great to hear from you. Well, that was a really eye opening interview. Yeah. I think when people hear stories of online trolling, they dismiss it a little bit, like they think it's like, oh, that's all talk or have a thicker skin. But hearing Lauren speak, you can tell it's really close to becoming not virtual. Yeah, And you never really know where the line is between a real threat and a an imagined one. And she kept
saying like it only takes one. And I know that Megan Kelly, the former Fox News reporter, was being attacked by tolls because of Donald Trump in a very similar way, in an intense way, and that some of the threats led her to seek having bodyguards for her and her family.
You know, she thought the threat was real enough, right, And in situations like those, it's still really unclear, like what the obligation is of your employer, either their legal obligation or their ethical obligation to help you out, to help you manage this stuff, And what do they even do? YEA, what can they do? And it's not just media people
that this can happen to me. We've been talking about examples of people who are in very public facing jobs, but anybody could say something in or out of the context of their work that could lead to them being targeted online. Yeah, there are a lot of jobs that people see as political. I've talked to the Anti Defamation League, for example, for stories that I've worked on and that's not media, and the people who work there certainly get
a lot of online harassment. And then if you think back to one of the tragic shootings of the last couple of years, it was at a planned parenthood clinic, and those people aren't public, but they're doing a type of work that people are ideologically opposed to. I think as time goes on, companies are really going to have to reckon with this more more and come up with ways of dealing with it that will feel just as
obvious as the silly retro workplace safety video. And I don't really know how we transition from all of that serious stuff to have bake takes, but we're gonna try happy fake takes. Becca, what is your overly strong opinion about something that doesn't matter? My half bake take is titled you need to ask permission if you're going to
eat during meetings. Goodness, it's kind of a bad headline, but often I will be so busy during the day, and then I'll have a meeting at like one, and I'll want to eat my lunch in that meeting, and I need to do it. I cannot do it. But I think it's rude to just straight up eat during a meeting. I think you need to say, like, isaid okay that I'm making this on my lunch meeting. Yeah, you should acknowledge that you're doing something that's kind of rude.
I guess some people's half baked take would be don't do that, And my half baked take is absolutely feeds yourself. But there's some like once I had an orange during a meeting with you, and I felt weird. Yeah, that was a really weird day. It was a weird thing to eat, and I mean, I'll never forget that time you're eating it. But I asked so that that's my half pick take. What is your not quite really a story,
but still something you want to share with us today? Okay, I want to talk about the ulterior motive that people have for using standing disks. So standing desks get a lot of attention for being a fat or for causing standing disk envy or whatever, um, but everybody says the reason to use a standing desk is because it's healthier, because if you if you sit for too long, you'll
die or something. Yeah, I have a standing desk which I have recently begun to use, and I understand now the psychology that makes people want to use standing desks. A standing desk makes you seem more important because you are just physically looming above other people. If you have the option to use a standing desk at work and you don't take it, you're just passing up a total office power play. Do you think that feeling more powerful
also leads to greater productivity. I don't know, but it feels good to just look down on everybody from my my perch. So you are standing us superior? Yeah, I feel superior in two ways because I'm standing, so somehow that means I'm being fit and also I'm just yeah, I'm looking at the tops of people's heads. My standing desk is like eleven feet tall. Cool. This has been half bag takes, half fake takes. Thank you for listening to game Plan. I'm at Francesco today on Twitter and
I'm at RZ Greenfield. You can tweet your half bag takes at us at game Plan, or you can call and leave us a message on our voicemail at two and two six one seven zero one six six. If you like Game Plan, please go on over to iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, subscribe and leave us a review. We love reading reviews. We read every single one. We share them with other inkay. This show was produced by Liz Smith and Magnus Hendrickson. Head of podcast is
Alec McCabe and we'll see you next week. Bye. Don't be a DEFL. Learn the rules of safe conduct and apply them. Yours is the safest job in the world. If you use your heads. It's up to you.