Are You Successful?

This week we're talking about success, and before you get too excited, listening to this will not help you make a million dollars or help you retire early. We don't have ten easy tips and tricks for how to climb the corporate ladder. We want to tackle a much more basic question, which is what is success? How do we even define it? Later we're going to talk to the comedian Chris Gothard about his ideas on success. But first, Sam, why don't we talk about how we feel about success?

How do you define it? Becca? I would describe success for me essentially as freedom and what it isn't so it's not worrying necessarily about things financial or monetary. But also not feeling like I'm doing work that I don't want to be doing that isn't fulfilling for me. The freedom to pursue the things that I want to do and live a life that is comfortable and absence of

major concerns. That definitely sounds luxurious and really nice, and it also sounds like from what I understand the life you live now, do you feel like you have that? I mean, I feel pretty fortunate at this point, and you're actually catching me, like in a three week period of actually like real kind of positive feelings about things, and I'm not sure, I'm much sure how longer it's

gonna last, but I do have it right now. I feel like success is you doing the things you want to do, you unencumbered, unencumbered by all the other things that can make life more difficult, that you are able to express yourself, that you're able to be the person you want to be do the things you want to do. And if you're able to do that, then yeah, I

think then you're successful. So you mentioned during this three week period of happiness, but your life at work has been the same pretty study for a while, so I guess when you're not in those weeks of periods of happiness, what are you worrying about. I'm worried about not contributing. I think what corresponds to this three week period is that I've actually been really busy. And you know, people complain about being busy, but this is the good kind. Yeah,

I definitely have the same feelings about that. And yeah, when the things are contributing are things that you're proud of and that you really like and you think are useful to the world, I think that feels like success exactly. You could work very hard at some stuff that you don't really believe in a lot of people unfortunately get stuck in that position. I am sure I will get

stuck in that position again. Yeah, but if you have the opportunity to like, really like what you do and be working on things that, like you just said, you really believe in, then that work is a pleasure. But it's unfortunate that we have to feel that way because sometimes I do work that I just do to be doing work, to be doing my job, and yeah, it doesn't feel great, but that still doesn't mean I'm not successful. But I still struggle with the angsty feelings that you're

talking about. I totally understand back. I mean, I'm curious, do you feel right now that you are successful at what you're doing, or do you still feel like that's something that you're always chasing. I feel like it's something I'm always chasing, and I have to remind myself that other people will probably perceive me as someone who is successful in very basic ways. I'm employed, I make a good salary, I work for a good company as a journalist. I have a pretty good job. All those things are

how people measure success. And yet somehow I don't have those feelings that you're talking about of feeling like I have control, even though I do have a ton of freedom in my job. So I don't know where that feeling comes from. I was gonna ask you what's missing. I think it's that doing work that I'm really proud of. I want that to be a constant thing all the time, and maybe that's an unattainable ideal, Like maybe that's crazy. I think that it might be. I think that, Yeah, no,

I do. I think that if you can keep it above of work that you're proud of, and hopefully even more than that, you know, sixties seventy eighty whatever. But I've come to the peace with the notion that, like

some work is just going to be work. Yeah, and as long as it's kept in the proper proportion, I can even sort of accept it and feel like, Okay, I know this isn't like going to change the world or anything, but you know, other stuff I do hopefully can or you know, whatever it takes off the boxes, get some Twitter faves, that's that's changing the world. Um. That's that's my measure. Um. And so you just kind

of accepted as part of the bargain. I think it's harder because I'm at this point in my career because I'm much earlier on in my career than you where I'm a polite way of saying, she's much younger. Yes, I'm a little bit younger where I'm supposed to be, yeah, chasing success and investing in my career and finding an audience and doing all these things. So it feels harder to just sit back and enjoy the ride, as they say, right right now. I mean, I think that's probably true.

And and given where I am in my career, which is different than yours, I think I am very familiar with the feelings that you're describing, and it hasn't been that long since I wasn't feeling them as much, right, you know. I mean it really just maybe a couple of years. But somewhere along the way you start to realize or at least I started to realize or feel that, you know, hey, Okay, this is fine, this is good, you know, and I think I don't know, you have

other things you start to care about. I mean, you know, like probably the majority of my mental energy is spent thinking about like my kids, and so my job is that that happens when you have children, you know, and so my jobs sort of restructures according to that, and like where it once loomed so large, now it's like it's really it's important anyway. That is all to say that I think you and I are both very lucky and this is just like angsty problems I have, but

still worth discussing. And to dig deeper, we're going to bring on our guest, Chris Goatherd. We're so happy to have Chris Gatherd here. He's a comedian, writer, performer. He started as Bill in the Summers Don't Think Twice, and you've also seen him on broad City. He has an upcoming off Broadway show, Career Suicide, which premieres octobert Hey, Chris, thanks for being here, Thank you for having me. So

today we're talking about success. Yeah, and Chris, I thought I could start off maybe by asking you a sort of two part question. Okay, I might ask you to be a little bit maybe I modest. I'm not sure. Um. The first part of the question is do you think and feel? And by the way, those might actually be two very different things. That you are more successful today

than you were a year ago. It's a that's a really interesting question because it's intellectually like cerebrallly, I am aware that I am more successful than I used to be, but emotionally I feel the same type of panic that I've always felt. So I can look back and like think about what types of things I was doing a few years ago, and I'm like, I don't even know how I was paying my rent then, but I'm aware of how I pay my rent now. I feel a lot more comfortable with it and secure in it. But

I don't necessarily feel more successful emotionally. Although I'm aware that I am more successful than I was a year ago. How do you measure that? How do you how do you know cerebrally that you are well. I can, first of all, not to be totally gross, but I can look at my bank account and be aware, like, Okay, I have more breathing room than I had a couple of years ago. That's a good thing. So there's that side of it, and then there's also the side of things.

You know. One thing that I've noticed is I I've always been a very self reliant person, and there were there was a long stretch where I was sort of profound only unsuccessful publicly, and that was kind of my

public persona. I actually built most of my career on a public access TV show, which is kind of the definition of not not It's not traditional success at the very least, So having built things that way, I think one thing I've stumbled into is the success I've had is generally all self started and is all stuff that I'm very much in control of, and that that's a

big way to kind of measure it. Is that I feel myself being less reliant on gatekeepers, people signing off on me, people who can get me in the door, because I've sort of found it in myself to kick in some doors because nobody was really opening the doors for me for a very long time. So that's a big indicator, is I need I need less people to shepherd me towards success. I found ways to make my own opportunities happen, and that's a big indicator. I know

that's kind of a ramboly answer, but not at all. Yeah, it's basically, I've put myself in a position where I have some agency over my own career, which is something I feel more and more the past year or two. Yeah, we were talking about having freedom is a really big part of success for us in our careers too. And you wrote this essay for a Vulture that I really liked and one reason that we wanted to have you on the show about all of your friends and colleagues.

I guess you don't call them colleagues and comedy moving to l A and chasing success, and how you saw them doing that and they were finding a traditional version of success and you kind of have that traditional version of success. Now. I went through the back door for it. But I also I I would argue that I guess it is traditional. I guess I have too cop to the fact that I've, I've it's gotten a little more

mainstream than it used to be. Um, but I am very proud of Like I like that, Like it's my TV shows on public access for four years and now it's on a cable network where I get paid to do it. But because of that background, I have a lot more ability to call the shots then I think a lot of people do in in having their first TV show, like I like having a podcast. It's such a free thing. I get to set my own schedule. I get to really define how I want it done.

So I do get that, and and it's been interesting to see so many of my friends go to l A and chase it and find it in many cases. But I think for me, one of the things that sudjusted majorly in my thirties versus my twenties is that like success and happiness are not synonymous to me anymore, Like they don't go hand in hand. Success oftentimes it's a headache that brings pressures with it, and happiness is not really inherent on my ability to publicly say look

at me and all the great things I've done. They don't really go hand in hand anymore, which is nice do you feel that, having now achieved some success and hopefully achieving much more in the future, that you have to be like very very mindful of holding onto your independence and making sure that you preserve the freedoms. Like you said, success can sometimes bring a lot of assholes, So it's not just you let success happen to you. You actually have to engage it and and sort of

manage it. I would think, yeah, I think so. I think so because I've also seen I've seen a lot of my friends get successful over the years, and a lot of them remain well adjusted people with their priorities straight. But you do see cases where people wind up in this weird world where the rules are different, and you see them get caught up in it, and you see them buy into it, and that, in my experience having

seen that, it never really ends well. Nobody, nobody ever winds up like surrounded by more friends when they go into success world and when they go into celebrity world. So for me, as I get more successful, I'm almost kind of like consciously pushing back against it. Not in a self sabotaging way, not that I want to stop my career momentum, but I just need to make sure my priorities remain true for a few reasons. One because I think that will help me remain a person with

a good head on his shoulders. But also I feel like there's a very dangerous thing that can happen, which is people will be sort of in the underground. In comedy. I can speak to comedy. You know, you're in the trenches doing shows, building a fan base, like attracting your people, finding your other collaborators who have a similar mindset. And then sometimes people get successful and all of a sudden it's like, great, I'm done with that, let me leave

it all behind. And I think that's such a dangerous thing. So I'm actually at a point now where I've had a couple of good years, but I'm also where that won't last. And one of my biggest priorities is to try to maybe find some comedians who are less experienced than I am, who remind me of where I was out a few years ago, and trying to include them and trying to sort of create sort of like a safety net of allies while giving other people opportunities Like

I I I'm very proud of my TV show. Like there's a lot of people whose first writing jobs and first acting jobs are on my show, because it's like a very small, entry level show, and I like that. But that's also a strategic move on my part, in the sense of, let me find all the other like minded people and make sure that I'm helping them out so that when I'm not doing well and they are, maybe they'll feel inclined to help me out. So I feel like it's always to me feel it feels like

a very smart thing. Is the second I got any anything resembling success, I was like, let me spread this around and include as many people as I can in it so that I don't lose sight of myself and so that I'm building something more long term. Then right now, the adrenaline rush of like being in a movie or selling your TV show or mounting this off Broadway show, it's like, those adrenaline rushes are really cool feelings, But I think I always try to think, well, what's the

long term? What can I build long term out of this? How can I make this sustain beyond this particular month or two that feels so exciting. How can I build this into something that that serves me in a year or five years from now, and I think I've been really smart about that, mostly out of necessity. You gotta have to find your allies and make sure everybody takes care of each other. I really relate to those feelings of the adrenaline rush, feeling really good but then crashing

from it after. And I want to go back to something you said earlier about how in your twenties, which is the decade I'm in right now, Um, you quit a success and happiness and then when you're in your thirties you realize that they weren't related. How do you do that? How do you even now? Because I mean, you're probably happy that you're successful. Yeah, I am, And

it's a piece of the puzzle. But it's also it's very funny because like when you said my name, most of the people hearing this were like who, And then a handful of them were like, oh, I think I know who that guy is, and a very miniscule, very very miniscule percentage was like, oh, that guy's rat like and I'm aware that that's who I am. Like we're talking right now in an interview about how I have achieved some level of success. But that being said, if

I became a household name tomorrow. It would have the appearance of an overnight sensation. Whereas I'm someone who's worked in comedy for sixteen years. So I think for me, I've had so many near misses with big level stuff that I think i've I was very I think I was very lucky when I was. When I was twenty nine years old, I got cast as the lead in

a sitcom and this it comp bombed hard. It's bad and not an easy thing to go through, but I thank God all the time for it, because it was this thing where I almost got this very traditional definition of what every comedian is chasing. I did get it. It just bottomed out very quickly. But I was in that situation, and while I was in it, I was like, Oh, this didn't solve any of my problems. It didn't make

me any happier. I have this big job. The New York Times wrote a profile on me because of this job. None of that means that I'm not like an anxious, depressed person. None of that means that I'm not sleeping in a bedroom with no closet and woodside queens like it's not it's not real. It's very gilded and that was this thing where I feel like I look back on that experience and it was very hard to live

through them. But now it feels to me almost like someone pulled back the curtain and was like, this is the machine. You're gonna go get in the gears of this machine and get caught up in it, and it's not gonna do anything for you. It's not gonna make you happy. And when that show failed, when it went away, I wasn't that sad. I was like, all right, let me try to and the next thing. So it was this weird thing of realizing that I've come close. I was almost hired as a writer on Saturday Night Live

in two thousand seven. I was there for two weeks as a guest writer, and I was there and I was like, Oh, this is so exciting and everybody wants this job. And then I got there and I was like, Oh, this is so stressful and scary. And then they didn't hire me, and I was like, Oh, that's such a bomber. Even then, I was seven years in when that SNW thing happened. I was ten years into doing comedy when

the sitcom thing happened. So I think the shorthand non Rambobly answer is I've come close enough to big time things enough times that I'm aware that they're not the healing remedy that I always assumed they would be. They're just jobs, and some of them make you happy and some of them make you not happy. But at the end of the day, like going home to my wife or catching up with my buddies from college when I haven't seen them in a while, makes me so much

happier than being in a movie. Not that I sneeze at being in a movie. I'm lucky, but I I'd rather live a real life. Entertainment is not real life. Do you feel grateful that the success that you're encountering is happening to you now, given your experiences over the past some odd years, that you sort of it's happening for you at the right time that you are sort

of prepared for it now. One thousand percent. I think I think about I was just joking with someone the other day about they said, because you know, don't think twice. The movie that I'm in is about someone who gets hired at sn L, and they were like, oh, you almost got hired there, And I was like, yeah. But if I got hired at SNL when I was twenty seven, I would have lost my mind. I was like, I was like a depressed person in a big way. Like I would have definitely become one of those SNL horror

stories of like some drugs. I would have been one of the drug addicts or the drunks. I would have driven me to madness. I wasn't ready. So I look back now and realize it hurts so much to not get that job then, but I think I really dodged a bullet, and I feel like success for me. It's almost very very similar to what I learned about like dating in my teenage years in early twenties, which was like if it's so clear that you want it so bad, you don't get the time of day, you know what

I mean? Like any time I was a kid and I was like really pining for a girl, it never worked. And when I was able to just be like, hey we should go grab food, somebody be like yeah, and it was when it was just hey, this is not rocket science, let's do this thing. It's like that desperation and like I really need this to happen. It almost guarantees that it like pushes away any chance. So for me, I hit my thirties and I had kind of given up on the idea of any anything happening for me

in a big way. And once I gave up and was kind of like, I don't really care anymore, that's when I started breaking through. Once I was like who cares, which is like so weird. It's like that. A friend of mine once told me a phrase about like dating. I was like single for a while and miserab about it, and he's like, hey, man, you're just you act hungry, you stay hungry. You're acting too hungry, man, and that's why you can't get girls to pay attention to you.

I think it's the same thing the entertainment industry. As soon as you choose to not care, that's when everybody's like, you seem cool, we want to get on board. It's very only time I acted like I didn't care was with my now wife. Yeah, right, twenty eight years of prining, pining, pining, and then I was just like, let's just be I believe the term that the kids uses thirsty, thirsty, don't be too thirsty. On that note, I think we have to take a break for our sponsor, which is a

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dot com slash up. So we're here with Chris Goatherd, who has a new show coming out, Careers to a Side at premiers in New York on October thirteenth, and we're talking about all of our feelings about our success are lack thereof? Chris? Can you tell us a little bit about career suicide? Career suicide? It's um, it's a comedy I've been working on. It's like just me up there for an hour and change and I talk. It's a it's a very very funny show. I want to

be clear on that. I've been a comedian in New York for sixteen years. Like it's it's I've put a lot of effort into being funny. But that being said, it's a show that all the stories tend to they focus on my issues with depression and a suicide attempt and medications and the and the side effects of those.

So it's it's, uh, it's not necessarily traditionally material that people think is like, oh, that's l O l L. I get it, so that airplane food wow, Yeah, but it's I feel like it's a conversation that people don't want to have. And I'm not making fun of any of that stuff, but I've lived through it in a real way, and um, I'm happy to get up there and maybe try to get some laughs out of it.

And I've I've heard some people say like, oh, you can't joke about that, And to me, what they're saying is like, you can't talk about it, and I'm really against that. I'm like, I really hope the people who think this is least appropriate material for comedy are the first ones in the door, because I think they'll say, oh, that's actually the perspective of someone who's lived through it and wants to talk about it and own his his

experiences and his problem. So that's that. But yeah, I named it career suicide because it's about suicide, but also like doing a whole show where you stake your claim on the idea of suicide is in effect a career suicide. But Judd Apatow got on board and he's producing it, so that goes a long way towards making you feel a little better about it. Yeah, that inoculates you, I

guess a little bit from yeah. Yeah, But it was like my friend, my friend Mike ber Bigley, who directed the movie i'man he he was we were talking about the title and he was like, yeah, I think that's a good one, because like, this is a bad idea to dedicate years of your life to a show about suicide. It's a bad career move, but that's why you have to do it. So I've never been known throughout my career for making smart choices, but I do make honest

choices and choices I'm passionate about. So it doesn't always end well, but it's worked out pretty well for me. So you brought up Mike Robiglia, and I saw the movie Don't Think twice, and a lot of the stuff that we're talking about is in the movie. If you if you're someone who thinks about success and failure a lot, that movie is like a horror movie to you. I

bet yeah. I was really upset after seeing it, and everyone I know loved it, and I really liked it also, but it was also like, why am I reacting emotionally to this ninety minute movie about improv? Yeah, it's funny. A lot of people in creative fields have found that movie to be a little I've had consistent feedback from people who are in the arts or in creative areas who are like, that movie is terrifying, and I'm mad at you guys were making it because it's all about

how you have to just question yourself constantly. It's too real.

Isn't there something I think about sort of the performing arts, where success and failure are so stark that you know, as opposed to other careers up where you know, you can go to your office every day and some days you do a really good job and some days you do a really bad job, but you know it averages out to keep you employed and you just kind of bounce along, whereas if you're an actor or a comic, you know you're just encountering so many times where people

are saying, you know, yes, no you not you big time, big time stand up. And that's why stand ups the hardest, if you ask me, that's the hardest type of comedy because when it fails, it is honestly a room for you standing in front of a room full of people who are silent because they don't like the material you wrote in the way you chose to deliver it. Like, they just don't like you. There's no way around that.

When you bomb, they're like, we don't like you, we don't like the things you're saying, we don't like the way you're saying, and we don't like you. It's really it's very lonely. Failing as a stand up is one of the most lonely feelings, and I think you have to learn to embrace that very quickly if you're just going to survive I mentally and acting to acting. Like especially in your early days as an actor, almost everybody does tons of commercial auditions, and those are exactly what

you're describing. Were like you walk in and they're like your head is too big to sell cheerios, you know, like where you can just feel it where it's like we wanted a pay all guy, but your three shades to pay off for us say this judgment of how you look, and you know, like you'll walk in and before you even say a word, they like glance up at you and then look back down at your their pad, and you're like, I just took hours out of my day to just get judged for my appearance. And I

can feel it, so it can be rough. Maybe that's why the relationship with success is so tortured, because you went through this horrible process of so much rejection to get to this thing you thought you wanted, and then you're like, oh, I did all of that for this, I think so. And I also like, I'm like I grew up in North Jersey. Everybody as a chip on their shoulder out there, and it's like I always had this idea in my head of like I'm going to

get successful and prove them wrong. And then when got successful, I was like, wait, there was no no they, No one was always I've always had this feeling that people are going to be like, now we get it, we were wrong. But it's like, oh, there wasn't this chorus of doubtful voices. I invented that in my head because I have mental problems. That's what happened. And then yeah, everybody was like, great man, you're a nice guy. You deserve it. And then I was like, oh no, now

I just have mental problems. I was fighting with these invisible demons, which is you bring that up in the Vulture essay to which I really liked that part where you mentioned some people who go out to l A, they become successful, and then they still have all these demons big time. I do want to be clear though, I'm not an l A hater, like, I don't hate l A. It's great, it works for a lot of people. For me, I lived there for a little while in two thousand four and it drove me nuts. I found

it an isolating, lonely place. And but I do I think that I do. I see a lot of my friends. I feel like a lot of my friends who have families in l A very happy because they go home to their spouses and their kids and their backyards and exactly, and who doesn't love that a life that you can

help provide for a family. But see some people go out and there may be younger and single and still have that chip on their shoulder and living life and looking for clubs and looking to get their pictures taken, and and those people tend to burn out fast, and those demons really rise to the surface in a way that's pretty hard to watch. It's hard to watch people who I have have known since we were kids maybe given to some of those demons a little too much. It's

very sad and scary. And it happens in New York as well. But as a comedian, you see people go to l A specifically to chase stuff, and you see how that ends well, and you also see very often how that ends poorly. I can see that happening to me. Don't let that happen to me. Um. So this is kind of an unrelated question, but as I've been thinking about success, I went to the US Open and I was thinking, like, what do you think it feels like to be Venus Williams. Her sister is the most successful,

and she is, by all metrics, also incredibly successful. Do you think that she feels like not a failure but like, Okay, you know, I have to constantly be compared to this other person who's the best. I've been thinking about this

a lot. People who are like right there. The long pause on this answer reflects the sadness that just sorry, guys, I mean, Venus Lambs is great, but it's just I think the money probably helps, or maybe I'm thinking about all wrong and this is just I'm projecting my hippersion of success. Their doubles partners fantastic, go a long way.

I hope you're getting along, Venus and Serena the inner workings of the Williams Sisterhood my brother and my brother does comedy as well, not professionally, and there was a while where we used to butt heads, but now we're in a good place. But he always makes jokes of like, you're more successful, but I'm far funnier, and he's correct

correcting that he's much much funnier than I am. But I just I think I was a little more stubborn and went for it, and there was there was a stretch where I think we were like feeling some friction with each other over it, But um, now I think it's just like we're old enough that it's like, oh, we both wound up okay with like reasonably okay lives and we're healthy and happy, and that's that's a good thing. Um, and the competitive nature of our of our youth has

gone away, which I think we're both happy about. God. I can't wait to be mature and wise. Um. Well this was really really great. Thank you so much for coming and talking about us. I hope it was useful on any level. And then I didn't ramble too much. Not great, it's great. And now it's time for half big takes, happy fake takes. Half big takes are half thought out ideas we have about the world in and out of the workplace, and this is where we get to air them out. So what is your half big

take this week? Sam Becka, My half baked take is actually an endorsement, a recommendation. Um. We spent a lot of time here talking about the workplace. There is a British comedy series that actually aired a couple of years ago called w one A, and that is the postcode for the headquarters of the BBC where the series takes place. And even though it's a couple of years old, it is still as fresh and new and insightful as ever. And it's, like they like to say in television, if

you haven't seen it before, it's not a rerun. It's the story of a character played by Hugh Bonneville, who many people will recognize from Downton Abbey, who has started a new job at the BBC. And it is an roorious send up of sort of workplace culture all of the different ways, from the design of the office to the meetings they have to the titles. People have just a bunch of nonsense, and it does it in a terri thickly, uncomfortably funny way. And I can't recommend it enough.

It's on Netflix. It sounds like a more modern version of the Office. Well, it definitely shares something with the Office in that both besides being British workplace comedies, well that's what I was right, but also like there's a certain comedy of the uncomfortable, you know, I sort of Curb your enthusiasm would be another tent pole there. And so it's just a lot of awkwardness and a lot

of passive aggression and so forth. It's not playing for like really big laughs, but it just perfectly captures and also amplifies all of the frustrations that you might encounter in the modern workplace. I should probably watch it all of it this weekend as research for this show we put on. You should totally should. I think there's maybe like four or six episodes there, half an hour each. I mean you can take me one day, you can blaze right through it. Yeah, great, I don't think that's

a take I can really argue with. I will take that take. Um. So my half big take is that there is a correct bathroom stalls selections to energy, and I use it, and if you're not using it, you should be what's the strategy. Well, it's kind of complicated, but when you go into a bathroom, you should have a strategy about which doll you're going to go into, and you should look at who is occupying all the other stalls and make calculations and pick the one that

makes the most sense for alienating the least people. What does that mean to you? There are say there are six stalls in a bathroom, and somebody's in the two end ones, Like you should go in a middle one so that you're not right next to someone as they're peeing, obviously, or like this is maybe tam I if I know that I have to just like quick pe I'll take an end stall because I know that those are kind of the worst ones to be in. But like my

quick pee, it's in offensive, will be in and out right. Um, I don't wait for the stalls. Like if I walk into a restroom, yeah, and they're full, I'm out of there. I see people who hang out. No, don't do that because then also what that creates is the incredibly awkward moment where you and the person like, now you're trading stalls and I know what you were just doing it all the way for men, we really know what you were just doing. I think anonymity is key. No one

should ever know that you're in the bathroom. No one in the bathroom should know about anybody else. I'll just pretend we're not there and we never go there right at work exactly. All right. That's my take, And this has been half Big Takes, half Pike Takes. Thanks for joining us for another episode of game Plan. You can find me on Twitter. I'm at rs Greenfield and i am at Sam Grobart and check out Chris Guthard's new show Career Suicide, which premier is oct in New York

City off Fridway. Thanks for listening. See you next week. M Get the most from your people and send your business soaring with corn Ferry, from executive search to talent strategy, leadership development, rewards and succession planning. Corn Ferry knows up is more than a direction, it's your future. Learn more at corn ferry dot com. Slash up our lives are, like Moby Dick, has some real significance. It's not just about the way out. What