He was part of the SoCon one hundred anniversary team as a member of that football side of things and played two sports at Furman played in the NFL, had some great plays and had some great moments and great memories as a professional football player. It's our good friend, Luther Broughton, Lou what's going on, babe?
Johann E what's Baker? What's going on?
Been too long? Listen?
Since the last time we spoke pre Super Bowl, I've had to replay a couple of your interviews like twice because we've been craving the Luther content. We love it, and it's always good to reflect when there's something notable in the NFL, such as John Gruden in the news or maybe one of these Eagles coaches or Chiefs coaches.
You know about fifty of them. But it's good to get you back on Live. Man. How you been. How's the family?
Man? Every day is groovy and their family is great. We're healthy, you know, still looking like a dis Elba in my mind, So I mean, everything is good, Bro.
It's good to hear you, man. And Luther.
You can follow him on Twitter at Richard eighty four and he's a great follow on social man. So here we are in this weird time of year in the NFL. We'll get some basketball takes from it. From a minute, is the Joker?
My god? Last night? Oh goodness, sixty ten and ten. You can't.
He makes it look too easy.
He does. He just does.
He just makes it look too easy. He's just unbothered. He's just good at basketball. Yeah, MVP, MVP, what do you say, Come on, they're having a Joker for tegue, so say you'll just Alexander's gonna win.
Tell you, I'm telling you it's MB part two, right.
No, it's not. It's it's Michael Jordan's part two. You know. They had m J fort and that's why MJ doesn't have eight m vps. Yeah, I mean, let's be honest. They Lebron's for team too. That's why he probably should have won it when d Rose won it, he probably should have won it. Went hard and won it. No, he definitely shouldn't have won Rookie of the Year over Carmelo. But that's a different story for a different day. But I think Joker is the MVP. Dude, He's like top three in everything.
I think part of it too, Look is a guy who played basketball in college is a guy that obviously has been around professional athletics most of his adult life. You know this, and you know how the media likes to do this. There is not a shiny object when you look at Jokic. He can be dull. He can be.
Boring by design. That's just who he is.
And so we look at the greatness of what he brings to the table. And this guy's like that in the NFL that just have you know, a pet Rock type of personality. But they're done it and it's just a stone coldness about him.
Man.
We were up there in Charlotte.
You were you at the game where the Hornets almost beat the Nuggets earlier this year.
I took my kids up there, and I should have asked I that game.
That was like prime Yo Kics down there in the low post at the end where you've got Obviously I.
Watched it and I remember the gain was at the end.
It's what he does.
It's like, what do you do? You can't do anything to stop there.
No, there's nothing you can do. Man, Well here's.
Another I love it. I'm a fan. I know some people are like, oh, it's boring. Blah blah blah. No, I'm I'm a massive fan, dude. I love watching him play. A huge fan, you know, ball.
That's why Luther Bronton joins us here for we're firm and great former NFL tied end uh And I wanted to get you on here because, look I joked about it on Facebook earlier, that are our our tush push insider. Look here, I say that because you're one of the
guys we talked to on this show. And we have a number of guys who played in the league that we talked to, but you're my favorite because you give us great stories and great inside and you played at a high level at a very important position tight end in Andy Reid's offense. Obviously, this is not Andy Reid's design, it's it's a different type of play. I know you are a loyal Eagles guy. They are a great organization in terms of fighting the legends back. I saw you
at the parade again this year. But that play the dynamics, give me your give me your sense of what it is, Is it right, should it be banned?
And where are you at with it?
Because you and I have not even talked about this so what's wrong with it? I just want to know what's wrong with it. It's within the rules. There's nothing against the rules. They're not doing something like backing into people to draw files like James Harden used to do, stopping short to draw file. They're basically going to quarterback sneak within the rules and no one can stop it. Other teams have tried it. They don't have out personnel. Part of it is we have a great offensive line.
Another part of it is we have a quarterback that squat six hundred pounds.
Thank you. I've been saying this.
We have a witting room quarterback.
I've been saying this nause him on this show that it and you look. I have different thoughts on this plane. I'll share them minute. But people underestimate the lower body strength of Jalen Hurts. That's really a big element of what makes this whole thing go.
That's a massive elod You know who ran a really great quarterback sneak, Tom Brady, and no one wanted to outlaw it. You know they're saying they're lying because they're talking about safety and health and injury. That's a lie. John. Let's let's be honest people, don't get hurt in the test push. Look, if you look at it, no one's getting hurt in the test push. You know when people get hurt John drop back passing. Are we going to outlaw drop back passing because injuries happened? No, we're not.
And I'm being ridiculous with a ridiculous example, but we're not going to outlaw drop that passing because people get hurt. Okay, So what they're doing is the Eagles basically have first and eighty every possession of first and not every possession. The people are sound jealous to me, the people that Green Bay sounds ridiculous when they're like, oh, I'm not the one who wrote it up, but it seems like
it's a safety issue. And then Sean McVeigh all people, he said, the optics of the play looks bad.
Yeah, yeah, that's something a fan would say. That's something a fan would say. To me, I was surprised and a little disappointed by McVeigh, because.
I was extremely disappointed by McVeigh. McVeigh was the one that disappointed me the most. The optics of the play. You don't like how it looks Are you kidding me? You know what's a horrible rule bringing the ball out to the thirty five yard line on a touchback. How about that one?
Well, that's crazy what they're trying to do.
Let's talk about that.
Let's do that. Let me I'm gonna get to that in a minute.
But here's my thing about the tush push. I don't know how familiar you are with Logan Ryan. He he played in the league for a few years and he was a yeah, New England, Tennessee And I heard him on a podcast recently and he raised a point that and comes from the Belichick school of thoughts. So I'm sure this is in the most defensive guys, I'm sure hate this play and some respect it. I've heard Vrabel come out, he's a defensive guy. He's like, what are we gonna do ban Lamar Jackson from running?
What are we doing here? But Lamar? I mean not Lamar. Geez.
Logan Ryan's had something along the lines of this to say, let's say you're a defensive unit and and how many times do we see this you're backed up as an offense. Let's say it's Philly and it's Saquon backed up at the minus two yard line, and let's say, you've got a swarm of linebackers that tackle him right at the goal line and he ends up landing in the end zone. But Ford progress. It was about the Ford Progress rule.
And his thinking was, as a defense, why are we not allowed to gain yardage at any point of the field. The safety is just an example, But any point of the field, why is Ford progress always called that early? And the tush push is allowed and you're allowed all this downfield shoving as different.
That's a different story. That's that's a that's a part of the play. If you're if you're if you're arguing that they're not calling it correctly, that's completely different of the DS safety. And I totally agree with him. If you're if you're going to always say, you know, possession will stop, let's stop the ball, and you're not going to do that on a test push. Logan Ryan has an absolutely great pullt.
Here's the thing.
As a guy who played in the trenches, Luther Bronton joins this former NFL tied end. I would imagine the Ford Progress rule, and I know a lot about the NFL, but I don't know enough to know when that was put in. I imagine it was put in after somebody got their leg snapped in half, with five or six defensive guys pushing them back five or six yards, and then finally it was a pile.
So at some point the play is over. That's what that's all about.
Well, but to but here's the thing. You've got you still at this point, Loud, You've still got guys. And what I'm more against than the toush push is the fact that you still have a cavalcade sometimes a convoy of two or three linemen going downfield and they're grabbing and holding and pushing.
The pile down the field.
That to me is inconsistent, and that puts the defense in a bind. I don't dislike it in theory because I love physical football, but I think defenses have been such they've been so handicapped since the early two thousands, when you know Doungee and Peyton Manning and others took away some of the physicality. They put it in front of the league and the league once points in scoring. I just thought it was interesting that Logan brought that up because it brings home a different perspective.
It's a really good point. I'm not gonna lie. It's a really good point.
You know what, I feel, I've got a conspiracy real quick. I think the Commander's Eagles. You remember the NFC Championship. I don't know if you were there in attendance or not. I'm sure you might have been, because you're an Eagles nut, and you're always everywhere loo, I mean you're always at
every game I ever see. But when that game was out of hand and they were trying to do a little toush push at the end, and they Dan Quinn, who I love, by the way, sent Luvu over the top what four or five times, and Sean Hockeyy finally came out and said, look, here's the.
Deal, y'all.
We're gonna give him the touchdown if this doesn't stop. To me, I almost think the Commanders. I don't think it's this diabolical, but I almost think part of it's like somebody in that STAPs like, look, let's do this, not only to try to stop it in a unique way, but let's try to shine a light on this and get the Competition Committee's attention, because the unattended consequences of that could have been Luvu breaks his neck falling down, or you.
Know, you know what, like that was stupid.
Actually, yeah, what not the way to stop it?
You know what I'm saying, that's not the way to stop it. I mean, if you want to bring attention that way, go ahead, more power chief. What you did was connor ridiculous. I mean, you could have done You could have done that on any play. That could have been any play. You also could have hurt the quarterback that it was just diving across at basically at the quarterback steat.
It was that it was overkilled after a while. And I have to believe that that look, and again I'm speculating. I don't know what dan Quinn's intentions are. He's a good man, he's a good coach. But I think at that point they're just trying anything they can to disrupt that play and know, when the game was kind of out a hand, it's gonna be Look, they're going to revisit it, and some of Roger Goodell's comments yesterday seemed to suggest that they're not going to just ban it.
That's what to your point about the Packers, the language in their proposal was pretty much singling out one team for doing something very well. That was the problem the committee had with it at least half of the committee that voted, you know, to not try to ban this, and then they tabled it when they revisited what Goodell said yesterday. And this gets back to the era in
which you played. I think it was two thousand and four or five, where they changed the rule to where they're allowing now a little bit of push and pull downfield amongst you know, there's a pile or there's a runner, you can do that. It used to be minunderstanding, at
least looking at the rules that was prohibited. So I think they're going to go back to this, and they're going to lean on precedent from the early two thousands and instead of saying, well, the toush pushes banned because we hate the Eagles, No, they're just going to blatantly say no more pushing or pulling any ball carriers. But you know what, here's the thing, lou, the Eagles are still going to find a way to get three or four yards on quarterback sneaks because of several factors. And
you know this well. Number one, the personnel they have upfront. Number two, the incredible strength of Jalen Hurt's lower body. And then number three, a man named Jess Stoutlin. You know, that's that's all they need to do.
Yep, gonna be interesting to see what happens.
So you're not surprising, you're you're a proponent of keeping the push play, You're you're all for it.
I am absolutely, I absolutely am. I think is I think they're being just in general?
Yeah, what's interesting? What do you think about the expanded schedule? Like you were a player, You've been through this and this is a time in a space where you know, you look at players safety and there's all that conversation about that, and you have had conversations about concussions and you know, head injuries and all of that, and you were very fortunate in your career to have a lot of success and make it out without a lot of
that in your inventory. But I will say this, the league is trying to push this thing to twenty games at some point. You know they are eighteen is next?
What you thought?
Oh my god, I'm going to cut you off and go back. For the reasons they want to ban the just push why on? Why? Because of what? Because of what?
Job? Player safety?
Because the players safety job. They want to ban it because of player safety. But they want twenty games. They want they want Thursday night games, they want Monday Winnesday.
International to Brazil, Go to Brazil.
They want all this stuff. But we're but but we're talking about player safety. It's hogwash, man, it's hog washed. I get it. It's hog washed. I wish Cadell would say, look, stop to play, or say fine, we won't we can't allow pushing on offense or pushing on defense. Fine, if that's what you're if you're going to change the rules and say you're not going to allow pushing the nuts, fine, but right now as well within the rules, I mean, just be honest with yourself. Just be honest is what
I want them to do. I want them to be honest because they're not being honest at all. Yes, uh, let.
No, they're not.
And you know it's it's I almost I don't respect McVeigh for what he said, but I almost see his point that he's not hiding behind player safety. Somebody will just come out and say, look, nobody else can stop it. There's one team doing exceptionally well. No one else can stop it. And that's why we want to gone at least be honest, because that's exactly what that's when they want to.
Go on, that's what I want, dude. I love hearing those other coaches say the Eagles do it well and you guys are mad about it. I love hearing some of those coaches say that. I absolutely love hearing the Lions well, not coaches, GMS and stuff like that. Like, I love hearing those guys say that stuff because it's the truth.
Yeah, Luther Broughton joins us, Look, I want to have a real discussion about contract distribution and contract management, Okay, because they have paid and I heard Todd Frantz and the guys from Athletes First have a podcast talking about, in not so many words, how they fleeced Jerry with the de contract. So you've got that tying up that cap. That cap number is enormous. You've got the Ceede Lamb deal. The Ceedee Lamb deal is fair. But to me, the
guy that makes the most impact. If I'm thinking I'm an opposing head coach, I've got to account for Micah Parsons more than anybody on that other team if I'm playing Dallas, because he just REX games and he's sitting out there trying to battle in the media, and he has to speak up because the owner at the owner's meetings pretty much said, I don't know who his agent is, dude.
His agent is David Milgedda. He's one of the most prominent guys in the league. What is Jerry doing and what does he is?
It?
Is it time for Uncle Jerry to step back? And let you know, cousin Steven take up.
It was time for Uncle Jerry to step back a while ago. Crazy, but you know what, it's Jerry's thing and he can do what he wants to do it. He said that time and time again, and he's right. Yeah it is, He's right. But guess what. Guess what, bro I love it.
I enjoy it as an Eagles guy.
Yet as an Eagles fan, it's incredible watching Jerry mess up right.
Right, Well, he waits too late for everything. He doesn't he's over loyal. He doesn't like paining coaches that aren't on his current sideline. This is why he keeps guys until the bitter end. And with these contracts, it's like there's an old adage, man, you know, Pat Kerwin has talked about this other front office guys like the longer you wait, the more expensive it gets and he waits to.
The last minute.
Don bro It's so dumb, it really is. And on the opposite end of the spectrum are the Eagles. They don't they get guys done. They get guys done. They you know, they make mistakes every now and then, paying people too early or whatever, every now and then, not very often. I'd rather make mistakes paying a guy too early than waiting, waiting, waiting, and see, boy, I wonder if this guy is going to give me a discount something.
What are you? Nobody's given the Dallas cot.
Well, have you ever in your in your time you were in the league for a few years when you were a free agent, ever did you did you ever visit Dallas?
Did you ever have any negotiations?
No, dude, listen to me. You and I know who I am. I don't have much of an ego and one of that many teams interested in the medal free agency. But look you.
You look don don don mcdad's rookie year, Andy Reid, you led the team and touchdown set.
There And let me tell you that was one of one of the best meetings I had with the coach about my abilities. Andy brought me in I'm a small I was a smart like nowadays might not be a small tight end. I'm a little.
Shorter talking about and he brought me in and he said, he was like, look, I don't know how your confidence it is because I know.
I know what your deficiency is in football. You're not a very good blocker in line block. But there are a lot of things that you can do and you do well. And he said, I don't know that many tight ends in the league who are versatile and run like you. So what we're going to do is take advantage of the things you do well. He said, I'm not going to part on what you don't do well, but we're going to get you better. But I only come who's not yelling at me because I can't block Reggie White.
Well who did that.
Exactly. And I'm being extreme, But you're not just yelling at because I'm not because I'm not Kyle Brady, who's the two hundred and eighty pounds.
Brady, he was glorified offensive tackle.
I remember, I love I loved watching him block.
Good dude, man.
Yeah, he's a monster. You get that guy, and you spect Luther who's who came out of college as a borified big wide receiver because I'm out there running rouse and then then you bring me in here and you just stick me down there at the play tight end on the line. Man.
That's not how That's not how you would have That's not And I saw.
Early highlights of you with some of these coaches, even with Seaford, and the way they deployed you at times.
It drove me.
Your classic move tight end, that's the West Coast offense here. You you tied in move tight end they call it. And that's what your game was in terms of you know.
H back time to bro. Here's the crazy thing about it. Back up tight end, firm me die not a superstar, just sat back on the team. Guess what Andy did. Guess what Andy did. And he put in a whole package for me. Don't get packaged tight ends, don't get packages. And he called it a Luther package. He called it, he called the Tiger Luther. And I know I'm in the game and I'm going to be able to get some stuff.
You've got your own and expression Andy Reid gave you a tag.
Oh my god, dude, I had.
I had my own set of plays. Tiger Luthor get in the game and that dude, I'm not bragging. I'm just telling you how he built how he built my confidence and didn't kick me. He didn't kick me man, because of the things I didn't do well, and he brought my confidence that I didn't have a lot of time. And I'm not saying that my coaches, especially my position coach in Carolina, I love that. I'm not saying those guys weren't be coaching and I'm not saying that they
worked on me. And I'm not saying they those particular diapoles on what I couldn't do. I'm telling you what Auntie did. What he did was in still confidence and he and he told me to capitalize on the things that i'd be well. He said, make sure you're doing that that then you do well. You show that. Now we're going to work on your blocking. They're not a very good in line boxer, so we're going to have you out after the practice and we're going to work
on some things. But what I do know, as I can, if I stick you out here in too tight a information and the other team brings it takes out nickel and plays base that you're going to destroy their linebacker or their strong fifty covering me. I'm gonna put some plays in employees. That built my confidence, dude. That's why. And I believed again that I could play in the NFL because the guys people think that like professional aren't real. They don't have the normal feelings. Dude. I was like,
I can't play. I can't play in this league. I'm I might not be good enough. That's how I was for a while. John, When did.
When did the light?
When?
When did it go? When did it? Did it click in ninety or had success before? When did it go off?
I can tell you. I can start off by telling me when it really got broken? And you could take one guess. The name rhymes with mod Mooden.
We know the great, the great form of Super Bowl, said John Gruden. We've heard the story and let's keep it there.
But you and John, John, John didn't think I could play football?
John?
Football? What I could play?
Why not? What did what did?
So?
John? You weren't soft? I know this, but I know this story ductive.
John was kund of productive. He treated me like I'm not gonna say the word because I remember that word on the radio. He treated me like crap, dude. He listen, My dad is one of those tough love dads. Words don't bother me. You could tell me, Lucy, you're afing up and all I'm thinking. All I'm thinking, and you tell me if I worked here doing what I heard was Luther, you made some mistakes. Shire. We gotta we gotta change that, and you gotta coaching. You got to bother me. He doesn't bother me.
An exit ramp from being a just a belligerent, counterproductive screamer, which Gruden a lot of people said the same thing about him. And look, he's got some bona fides in all respect to his There's got to be an exit ramp from yelling at somebody. The exit ramp needs to be okay. We we've got that out of the way. Even Parcels had an act for this. But then where's the teaching coming in? Belichick, master of that dude.
Listen, man, I remember Chad Lewis said, whoa Chad always called me bro? He said, Bro, what did you do to Brude? I said, what do you mean? He said, Bro?
He just.
He's like he's like he kills me everything you do. He doesn't. He doesn't really coach you up. He just goes off on you. And I was like, Chad, I don't know, dude. I was distraught. Man. I was like, Chad, I don't know, Dade. I don't know what I did. Who I said something I said? I don't know, bro. And uh, but when I left, when I when I left,
uh Mini camp? And I might have told this story before when I left Mini Camp or you know what I did, John, Yeah, I went home, went back to Furman, start talking to some people to start working on my grad school because I didn't think I was good enough. I didn't think I could fun.
Yeah.
Yeah, And that's smart, that's that's that's a smart thing to do anything.
My cousin went off on I mean, he was like, are you crazy? He was like, dude, you you're a baller. You know, it's says some you know, people who know you, who can tell you when you need to bleep off or when you need to wake up and wake and you know how it is a lot of family can do that to you. Oh, I know the people you trust can tell you the worst things about you. Those are the people who get a pass. Uh. You know, you can tell me how much of a jerk. I am if if if you, if you're not, I don't.
I'm not seeking your your opinion. It doesn't hurt me, it doesn't bother me.
Well just quickly before before we hit it, because we're on a clock. Unfortunately this happens all the time. But I'm gonna just claim this is my own because Doc Climban, who has ripped off a lot of people on Twitter for their content, including me, over the years. I don't think he ripped this off from us, but he did. You sent me a tweet from him, a little screenshot, and I just want to make sure I give him credit even though this is our bit.
The ninety nine Eagles.
Team under Andy Reid produced nine future head coaches, and the man on this phone right now, Luther Broden, played for each of them. Brad Childress, David Cully, Pat Schirmer, Ron Rivera, who's now the GM out of cal Less, Frasier Spags, John Harball, Doug Peterson, and and let's not forget Sean who is the Deuyt Shrewd of the staff as you've got assistant to the assistant.
To the But you but you knew when you met him, like because when he didn't know. You always started from the bottom. Yeah, yeah, when you when you met and you knew like this guy, this guy is something.
The coaching tree is insane.
At some point, I'm gonna I'm gonna pull you aside and we're gonna find a way.
It's never gonna happen to.
Get all of them on a conference call together for the ultimate Mega cast, the Andy Reid Reunion, which will never happen. But look, it's it's great lou catching up with you. I do have one last thing to say before we hit this very quick break.
The Toush push.
I think there should be something like, you know, you've got a Hall pass, you've got the speed pass. How about a Toush pass. What's a game coach pulls out a card, pulls out a car and says, look, here's my toush pass. I get won a game and then everybody wins. No, I'm with you. You You've turned me around on this the rest of the learn how.
To stop honest, just be honest, Louis.
We got to hit it, man. It's great to hear your voice, Bud. This is fun, all right, brother,