Jag Mallela: Creating Solutions and Driving Innovation at WSP USA

to the future construct podcast. I'm your host Amy Peck. We have a fantastic guests with us today, Jag Mallela, who is the senior vice president and managing director at WSP. Welcome Jag.

So , uh, and he was a sort of , uh , I lost him, you know, several years ago, decades ago, but , uh, he , he was a more a cerebral person, you know, who we used to think, the big things, you know, and he was on this last thing is thought as a professor. So it kind of inspired me to take , uh , academics and, you know, my journey, you know, I always was intent on achieving something , um, that was high up in the academic world. So I always was set on, you know, doing some advanced degree.

So I ended up getting my master's and PhD later on in life , probably inspired by him. And the other side of mine was , uh , my , my mom was a , was a musician and she was a creative person. And , um, so I also liked the creative part of it. Like I like cooking for example, or, you know, I like music. And , um, so, so it was kind of a interesting experience for me, you know, growing up that I had both parts of it.

So I did my, you know, I stayed, you know , on the academic side, didn't become a musician, you know , got my , uh , as I said, degrees and then moved on into the civil engineering profession. And that's what I saw, you know, and I always wanted to do something innovative, something out of the ordinary.

So , uh, as soon as I graduated, I picked up a job, you know , in a company that was doing pretty advanced research in pavements, you know , believe it or not high bay road , road, road, pavements , and materials. And I worked in that industry for a long time, about 16 years doing applied research work and slowly my horizons expanded from just materials engineering, to , uh, design engineering, you know, structural design of pavement , uh, you know, to something more broad scope.

As I expanded my horizons, I looked more broadly at the field of transportation and I had an opportunity then to move on and do other things across transportation. And , uh , I , you know, there was an opportunity at wide levels at my previous company , uh , to do innovation, you know, and basically deploy innovations in a wide variety of transportation fields.

That was a big blessing for me because I was suddenly exposed to all the things that were happening that were innovative, that drove my interest. And , uh , here I am, you know, several years later, you're still working with the USDA and the federal government and state DLTs in deploying all kinds of innovation, including in the technology space.

So really grateful for that career path , uh, initially peaked by some love of learning and academics and ending up in trying to reinvent myself every, every time I, one thing I like is not, not to stay still in one thing, you know, I'd like to explore different things. And so innovation is a part of what I think, you know , um , everybody should be a part of change and reinvent themselves. So this is my story.

And do you think that that has kind of given you that kind of left brain and right. Brain combination, that's making you so fascinated by , uh, by innovation?

And some of the taglines, you know, I ended up going in them and, you know, I'm surprised that the teams liked that , you know, so yes, I would say that she probably, you know, her orientation arts probably helped me look at things differently than probably, you know, in a, in an , in a different way, innovative, you know, all the , of course, you know, without me thinking too much about it, probably as an influence, you know, I'd say, yeah, I agree.

And now there's some news about, you know , infrastructure in, in, in cities and whether it's actually going to survive , uh , the way it was constructed and built, you know, over the next several decades. And so what are some of the things that you're seeing that, you know, whether it's trends or, or cures for some of these challenges where maybe things maybe were not constructed in a way that that can scale and survive?

And, you know, one thing we did research it for about two and a half years with some wonderful colleagues of mine, you know , who, whose wisdom of course had benefited from one of them being hel castle, who was the former secretary and my colleague at WMTEK Maryland in a hybrid administration, might my colleague here at WSP . Um , and we came up with a conclusion and it's kind of a board one, which basically we said, we will potentially 50 to 50 years from now. We'll still see roads.

We'll still see bridges. You know , they're not going to go away. That's not like the Jetsons , right? I mean, we are not going to replace them because those predictions have come and gone. But the way we , we look at things, you know, will emerge and evolve over time. You know? So the report was not so much about prediction, but about positioning, but what's changing.

And one of the trends that obviously we picked up, you know , everybody talks about the ubiquitous technology change that will come to us, the changes in the way, you know, even institutionally, we are organized to deliver infrastructure and to maintain it. You know, maybe the models, the governance model will change again , the way we do it, maybe there are new players that will come and take over the system. Maybe the system becomes more cyber-physical .

In other words, you know, that's not pretty word these days, digital twins cyber-physical systems where you have, along with the heart highway , you also have a digital highway where information flows freely and connects with each other. The vehicles and highways are kind of more interconnected. You know , historically speaking, the roads are built and then they go scam. But now the vehicles are here and roads are incidental because vehicles can guide themselves.

You know , they need something to write on, but they don't need maybe in the future, all the striping and signage, you know, if things were to be believed, maybe we don't even need roads because we've got advanced air mobility. It's an area that I worked in working , but I'm sure there'll be need for roads and bridges.

I'm not saying there won't be a need, but there will be a need, but you'll have innovation in terms of, you know, more , um, integration of digital technologies, our governance structure structures change the way we source materials will become more sustainable, you know , more carbon efficient, you know, things of that nature. I think over the next 50 years, you'll see changes in everything that we see. But most importantly, you know, I think the issue is with people.

I always say innovation is not just technology. 50% of solving innovation is we have a lot of knowledge already in the box translating that into things people want to do and can implement and changing the way people, you know , take those things on is I think going to be very essential. I think 50% of the work or more is probably in change management up-skilling or getting people used to new things. And I think that's going to be really critical. Right ?

Um, you know, about our own personal future is it don't think that we spend enough time actually thinking about what we personally want and, and then, and then using technology towards that end. And, you know, you mentioned maybe, you know , we won't need pavements. Maybe we'll have, you know, the sort of flying cars, but maybe they'll hover first and then they'll fly. Um, but we'll still need roads.

And so, you know, the way that you're thinking about that does that for you come from some personal vision about how you, what you'd like to see for the future, or do you have more, do you feel like that's more of a sort of science and infrastructure backed viewpoint? That's, that's bringing you to some of your innovation conclusions or maybe a combination.

So I think you have to imagine big and you have to imagine to solve problems to create efficiencies. You know, like you said, I agree with you that it is figuring out what is not working and then, you know, trying to solve it in a manner that it doesn't hurt more than it does at the moment and making it more efficient. So I think it's a bit of both. I think definitely technology and science is evolving.

We are more knowledgeable today than we were yesterday, but we do have newer sets of problems that we have created because of that. So I think it's , it's, it's, it's a bit of both. I think you do need a bold vision and you need risk-taking, you know, to change fundamentally what you're doing. I think that is I think a key, I think it's , it's both, I think it's backed by, I would say both

Uh , and , and how can we, you know, keep an eye on those who may very well get left behind with this sort of new generation of technology, but also make sure that they don't feel completely disenfranchised. And it seems like a big conundrum and it may not be part of your day to day, but you seem like someone who, you know, also really cares about humanity. And so my guess is that you've thought quite a lot about this.

For example, if you don't have basic internet services , it's not just in this country, ultimately it'll become, it's a global phenomenon because you , you know, the world is connected in ways that, you know , uh, that it was never before. And I think if you cannot find solutions that bring people in and serve the underserved, I think as, as the first point there, you know, I think you're probably doing a lot of disservice because not everybody can take that space flight, which sounds cool.

We talked about, but it is exciting.

You know, it puts it within the reach of ordinary people to do it, but then to bring it down, you know, connected and autonomous vehicles, you asked me for trends, you know, flying cars, for example, you know, we talk about all these drones, things that are developing that I , I researched personally and I help plan for, you know, they all have to be looked at it from the perspective of a simple road building, even for example, I mean, you put a new road, you know , to boost the economy, bring

jobs to us sector whose jobs, what jobs, how are we dividing communities? I think you have to look at the community, the people that solution is supposed to serve holistically, not with the blinders on, as we did sometimes in the past. So I think , um , finding the use cases, thinking broadly, bringing new people into the decision process, innovation is not a domain of a single person. I think you need broad set of thinking, you know , whether it is race, gender, you know , whatever it is.

I think the more perspectives we can bring to solutions, the better off we are in trying to create something that's sustainable and , uh , closing that gap, you know, it becomes automatic because you have now the participation of stakeholders who are at the receiving and otherwise in the past. So I think it's an important concept. I know it is.

Um, it's a bit , uh, out there in terms of, you know , uh, uh, you know, how we do things today, but I , I think diversity equity and inclusivity are becoming a part of what we do today in all aspects of life. And very thankful for that, because it is, it is something that, you know, at this farm that I worked for, my former boss really ingrained that into, into something that, you know, when we had discussions, you know, his thinking was , uh, uh, was phenomenal.

Then I really looked up to him on that, on that front about several years ago, but I'm glad it's becoming a reality today. So , uh, it's, it's really , uh, a key, I think in my mind,

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And we are back with JAG, Malala talking about diversity and equity and inclusion, which, you know, really should not just be , uh , you know, a company mandate. It should really start to become part of the company's core culture. And, you know, let's think about how we can really wire that, you know , diversity together with this emerging technology to actually, you know , do exactly what you said, which is, you know, kind of close that digital divide.

What are some of your thoughts on ways companies can, can do that and accomplish that,

And when I say quit a gap, it really means in a critical first, in this case, the fairness and the allocation of investments , uh, and the distributions of the benefits and costs and representation, more importantly to me in the decision-making process, you know , among communities, right? I mean, so are they represented when those investment decisions are made and how are they represented? So for example, the way we conduct meetings has an impact on that, right?

Like I said, if you don't share in the knowledge economy, if you have , for example, you don't have internet access, for example, you are not part of the decision-making . Right. So , uh, and oftentimes we do see that, but of course, as I said, you know, things are improving.

So equity is broad-based to me, it is, it is not one thing, but it is, you know, both in terms of, as I said, you know, race and gender, a big part of it, but there's a social demographic inequities, there's economic inequities and geographic inequities as well.

You know , so I think, you know, when you study all of those problems and now think about technology now, think about, put that in the context of investments, you know , um, when we talk about as cool as it sounds and believe me, I'm a huge technology proponent, I've done a significant amount of work in , you know, automation and technology.

And, but you have to look at it in terms of what problem are we solving and what new problems are we creating, you know, and what you know, and the problems that we are solving in a have to be social problems, right? It's social infrastructure at the end of the day, it's public's money, that's going into infrastructure. So you are, you are putting in public investments, you know, where you are building new roads or new infrastructure systems.

Um, you have to be able to solve, you know , holistically all the problems that are that , that you are attempting to solve with that.

And that, that's my , um, that's my take, you know, whenever we look at investments, you know , we should be looking at whether it is transit investments, whether it is, as I said, connected , automated vehicles, whether it is flying cars, you got to look at the social demographic characteristics of the people that you're serving, like physically disabled, gender racial, ethnic, linguistic minorities. You should be looking at distributions of the benefits and costs to those , uh , people.

They should be able to look at , uh , the geographic diversity, you know, who paying was not paying, who was participating, who's not participating and make informed decisions. And this is not to say that, you know, everything that you do , um , can always be some totaled , you know, to, to the , uh, to the , you know , zero. In other words, you know, you may have some inequities in certain decision processes, but you got to balance the system as a whole.

And I think there are ways of doing that. And , um, uh, a great example that , you know , I see , uh, you know, some states, for example, you know, they , uh, one of the things they're doing doing is in the urban areas where we have system congestion issues, you know , we need, you know, cellular technologists solve system condition problems, using newer vehicles that are emerging or newer signal systems. They're also making efforts to put broad broadband access throughout the state.

You know, so, you know, it brings economic advantages, educational advantages , other parts of the, or the other parts of the states , which are not directly benefiting from the vehicle based and infrastructure based investments that are made are being made in the urban system. So that's a good example, you know, how to balance, you know, investments. So, but , uh, but I think that that is what I was driving it in the beginning.

And yes, probably at some point a larger percentage of the population are going to be going back to offices. Um, it's kind of sad because it's been nice to be able to, you know , think our priorities, but, you know, have you seen that specifically in , um, you know, in your work, are you able to collaborate with a broader group of people globally within the company and even without , uh , to, to really kind of gain better insights into some of the problems that you're solving

And as a result I have heard anecdotally now I don't have hard facts to back this up that our normal planning process is receiving more. In some cases, I won't say all cases, but more participation than , um, than a traditional process where a few people showed up at a town hall meeting. And now we have, you know , people in the dozens or even hundreds, sometimes more people than we've ever seen in the past being part of the decision process.

So that's the positive, you know, I would say of using technology in a , in a wise way to increase awareness, inclusivity , um, decision process. Yeah . And I have seen that , uh, because of this , uh , technology evolution and that, that was the point I was making earlier about, you know, creating basic broadband access allows people to participate in the knowledge economy. Um, I mean, I'll give you another example when you see planning it on, let's say advanced mobility.

It's an area that I work very closely in , for example, the first problem we got to solve is the problem of medical access in the rural parts or the ex-urban parts where especially the underserved population or disabled or elderly population that cannot get into a car and drive to a major facility. How can we get the doctors to them? How can we get medicines to them?

How can we transport them maybe in the future, once there is acceptance of these kinds of new ways of transportation know , that's the problem that is very attractive in my, in my view. And it should not, you know , we should not lose sight of that is a problem also, but that also increases, you know , the receptivity of technology.

Of course it has other benefits, you know, in terms of getting to my airport on time, you know, flying over people, you know, not getting stuck in traffic, those are all important things, but you also have the beneficial impacts of technology, which should reach out to the general population to increase acceptance. I think it's , it's kind of a, win-win when you look at it inclusive .

Ostensibly we'll have clothing that has sensors in it that can alert us to some of the simple things that we can fix it , the home being dehydrated, I'm sitting too long. I get, you know, my, my notification on my, my watch that it's time to stand or it's time to breathe. Um, so I think that that's, that's a really interesting evolution.

And I'm wondering just in terms of other technologies that you're seeing, that that can actually empower us sort of on an individual level, are there some that you're seeing or that you're really excited about?

Like, for example, there is more linkages between transportation and health these days, you know, the, the, you know, I, and I'm not anti freeway by any means, but I'm saying when you build communities and design them, you know , uh, unfortunate , uh, remnants of the past , um , work has been that you divided communities and actually decrease what is called as the walkability score, you know, or they help , you know , um, in fact though , you know, health number for that , for the community.

Uh , but what I really like is, is the innovations around complete streets, you know , um, increase in thinking about how , um , transportation is linked to health outcomes of people. You know, I really feel like that is, that is an exciting development. It hosts, it, it basically opens up a lot of technology , uh , to come into, you know, into the, into the planning and design part of it and even delivery and implementation part of it.

You know, like, you know , we talked about, you know, wireless services, for example, or, you know , um, uh , services to allow , um, you know, all residents to participate, you know , uh , into the, into the health of the community, you know, in the healthy way of living in the community.

Um, are there other things that really excite me these days are, you know, as I said, the , the use cases that are advanced their mobility and the impact it will have on health outcomes, I think that is, that is a huge factor. I think , um, you will see that in the future. I think that will be the number one use case. I believe, you know , that that will really increase the buy-in or at least it's an immediate use case as many up flags . Uh , that to me is , is really exciting.

The ability of multimodal transportation, integration, you know, using technology and seamless, you know, access switching from model service in a where you can actually bike to your train station other than drive again, that, that connected transportation system offers as ways to live in, you know, somebody coined it as a fractal city. Like you, you, you know, you live work and play, you know, in the same space in your community, there is a sense of belonging.

And that's huge, actually, that is a huge part of social wellbeing , you know , some have found in research , uh, but then you commute efficiently, you know , when you need to commute, you know , um, and by, by reducing your footprint carbon footprint, you know, if you have well connected cities that are served well by public transit, or even by car, you know , um , by roadways as needed , uh , but you know, these kinds of innovative mindset open, open rather than picking one technology to me,

you know, you'd opens the decision process and your mindset to a more integrated, inclusive, and potentially more healthier transportation, you know , outcomes, you know, for, for our, for our citizens. And to me, that's the broad spectrum of technologies that can really play in that field. And that's really exciting to me. So

meal with someone. Um, something I noticed recently , uh , when I was in LA and this is also happening in San Francisco and other cities is that a lot of the sort of, you know, parts of streets were taken over to allow restaurants and shops to have these kinds of outdoor seating areas and overwhelmingly residents are voting to keep them, even though it actually impedes car traffic.

So what you're seeing is more people walking, more people on bikes, more people, you know , kind of relishing in the fact that there's now this sort of sense of community, as opposed to worried about where they're going to find a parking space for their car, their car. And I think that's a very telling, and it's very interesting because it feeds right into your work. Right. And how do you now start to plan around this, this new paradigm?

I mean, that's not lost on anybody, but in terms of , uh, you know, looking at looking at what you're doing to the communities that you're serving is important, there are revenue mechanisms that are alternate ways of making money as people are discovering, you know, keeping restaurants open, having a thriving local economy is as important as having yeah .

Having football is more important than cars zipping through your neighborhoods because you have, you know , more people coming into the stores. And like you said, I live in a smaller community outside and it's a suburb of DC, but I enjoy just biking, you know , to my grocery store, just walking there, you know , and my kids enjoy that.

I mean, it's, it's , uh , I think you're seeing this all over the country in small and mid-sized cities as well, not just the big metropolitan areas , uh, and you know, certainly you need the roads, you need technology, you need, you know , demand management, you need tolling , uh, and you need to have, you know , things like digital access , you know, payments systems and online payment systems, you know, the vehicles custom designed to be able to, you know, zip through those facilities, the

operating complexities and uncertainties associated with , uh, with the transportation technology, you know, are there on the agency side, but from the people's side, people on, on the other side of the spectrum that cannot participate in that, you know , clear insecurity and distrust in adopting newer technology. So, and it doesn't serve anybody. I mean, you just drive the gap wider if you don't solve the problem earlier.

So I liked the innovation around providing dedicated, you know , transit facilities on the side of toll facilities, for example, I mean , uh, providing BRT, you know , um, you know, systems like that, that, that create the take people. I even connected vehicle technologies.

I have seen where AVS are most useful are aware , um , actually where they're picking up, you know , uh, uh, passengers, you know , from traditionally underserved areas in the transit context and bringing them , uh , to the areas where they need to be either to go to school or shop or go to work that I think is a huge benefit , uh , for abs .

But , um, you know, those are the use cases that people are solving and I, that really excites me because it, it then kids invent , you know , and increases adoption. So,

So if you could project yourself, you're 20, 25 years into the future, and you could have, you know , any kind of gadget or service or just something that would make your life better or make you personally happy, what would it be and what would it do?

You know, if I had a gadget, you know, at any point in time where I'm seeking knowledge or information about something that I don't know , um, if I could just, my brain waves could go out there and into the broad universe and bring that back to me instantaneously, that would make me, I mean, we have Google search engines now, but something more sophisticated they can bring, as soon as my thought occurs, you know, bring that knowledge back into migraine and actually bring it to the audience that

I'm trying to communicate with. More importantly, because we see, I think if I could wave a magic wand and say, you know , uh, I see this very clearly, many are not seeing at least not having the same, same source of information. If I can just cast a spell and say, well, here's the information. I'm not trying to bias that opinion, but presenting the facts, you know, that are well researched so that they can make their input .

Personally, I'd like to have that access to that wealth of knowledge that has gone before , um, instantaneously . That is, that is my wish.

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