Episode 41: God’s Sovereignty & Man’s Responsibility, Part 5

00;00;08;18 - 00;00;37;28
Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to Further. I'm Britton Graham. I'm here again with Chris Carr. And sorry we're a little late on this one. Typically, these come out on Wednesday, but this one's going to get released on Thursday.

00;00;38;00 - 00;00;42;17
Brenton
But at least it's happening, so. Good morning, Chris. How are you doing?

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Chris
I'm a little tired. Coming off a really crazy week last week. Good week. And then I've been getting up really early the last several days to go hunting. So that's why the podcast episode is is a day late. So I wasn't. I've been gone and what a great time, but unsuccessful. So we'll get back at it here before too long.

00;01;06;21 - 00;01;32;08
Brenton
Bummer. All right. Well, so this week we were in Romans ten again. And I think this this episode is going to focus a lot on evangelism. You know, Paul Paul is talking quite a bit about that in in the first five verses of the section and he ends it. How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news?

00;01;32;08 - 00;01;58;07
Brenton
And so I think this is a very important topic to talk about, and it's not something that we haven't covered before. But I think to to hit it from this perspective of Paul's, I think is going to be important. But I do want to start. You know, I think I've been struck a little lately with the the way our sermon series have gone.

00;01;58;07 - 00;02;27;03
Brenton
And, you know, there's a consistent theme through all of our all of our messages. And so my question is, why do we talk about the gospel so much in harmony, or are there more important things in Scripture to talk about? You know, I I've heard pushback on on this as we need to preach the full council of of the word instead of only being gospel centered.

00;02;27;05 - 00;02;33;15
Brenton
But what are your thoughts on that? Why why are we in gospel centered in our preaching here?

00;02;33;18 - 00;02;58;07
Chris
Well, first of all, I would say I think the objection is misguided when it says we need to teach the whole council. God, I agree with that. That's biblical. But the whole Council of God that the Bible is, I would suggest, about the gospel. And so pretty much everything in the Bible in some way is about the gospel.

00;02;58;07 - 00;03;28;13
Chris
And I would take that from from Luke 24, 27. So this is the resurrection account in Luke's Gospel, and Jesus appears to the disciples on the road to a mass. And He says to them, Luke 2427 and beginning with Moses and all the prophets, was just the entirety of the Old Testament. He interpreted to them and all the scriptures, the things concerning himself.

00;03;28;15 - 00;03;55;11
Chris
And so Jesus is saying there, the entire Old Testament is about him. And when we're talking about Jesus, we're talking essentially about not the gospel. And I think it's pretty clear the New Testament is all about him. It's all about the gospel as well. And so I really I think that the question or the objection is just misguided from the beginning.

00;03;55;13 - 00;04;31;15
Chris
You can look at it another way, though, and this actually plays into evangelism. I think you can you can look at the gospel really in four different parts of the Bible, in four different parts. So you have creation. That's Genesis one into you have the fall. That's Genesis three. And in many ways, the rest of the Old Testament describe about how the how the fall plays out and health sin spreads throughout humanity.

00;04;31;17 - 00;04;56;19
Chris
But then we have redemption and we we see the promise of redemption, even in Genesis chapter three. And then we see how God chooses a people Israel and chooses Abraham in particular there to be the the one through whom that redemption is going to come the family line. And of course, that leads up to to Jesus and then from Jesus.

00;04;56;21 - 00;05;26;27
Chris
And then we finally have restoration, which we have. And then really we have a promise in the in the Old Testament without a time to go through it, But especially in the the major prophets like Isaiah and Jeremiah, you can see the restoration promise. And then of course the Bible concludes with revelation. And at the end of revelation we we see this final restoration where the dwelling of God is with a man.

00;05;27;00 - 00;05;58;25
Chris
And so return then to the Garden State essentially. And so creation for redemption and restoration. And that is the biblical story, and that is that is the gospel. And I'd also then suggest that that's a great way to do evangelism. Maybe we're bleeding into some of the other questions we're going to get to, but I think it's a great way to talk to people about the gospel is is to to talk about, you know, God created the world and then sin entered.

00;05;58;27 - 00;06;17;25
Chris
And you look at all the problems and all the issues that we have today that can be traced all the way back to that that rebellion. But God has stepped in and decided to do something about it to rescue us. And there's another, ah, you know, redemption, restoration. You could call those things rescue or redemption or at least rescue.

00;06;17;27 - 00;06;52;14
Chris
And then one day it's going to be restored to the way that the God originally intended it to be. And he's made it possible for us all to be be a part of that. And I think, again, you said a lot of people's objections or questions or longings within the framework, that framework that I've just presented there. So and then the last thing that's really answer I would give or say, the last thing I would say regarding this, this question about Gospel Center preaching is Romans 1/16.

00;06;52;17 - 00;07;23;28
Chris
I'm not ashamed of the gospel, for it is a power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. And so the gospel is what brings salvation. And that's what God is doing in the world. And and so, you know, I could go on and on about this, but but one major reason to preach the gospel is, is if we don't, then pretty much everything else becomes something, you know, becomes moralism.

00;07;24;00 - 00;07;51;10
Chris
Right. You know, you do this or you don't do this and things will things will be better. And, you know, and even those, you know, like the Old Testament stories that so often get taught like B, b, you know, like David, you know, David and David and Goliath, you can slay the slave, the giants in your life. And it's about what you do or dare to be a Daniel.

00;07;51;11 - 00;08;23;02
Chris
The song that I learned, how did you learn that with some of the older people listening will know dare to be like, you know, be a Daniel. And we're not Davids, we're not Daniel's. You know, we may have those moments, but the point then is becomes about us and it becomes like, just do better, be better. And instead of seeing that those individuals are in, the stories are meant to point us to, to the greater David, the greater Daniel, and on and on, we could we could go there.

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Chris
So I think when we don't preach the gospel literally and everything, or we get to the gospel, literally everything that we are walking through in the Bible, it eventually will devolve into a honestly, a works based salvation.

00;08;44;24 - 00;09;08;01
Brenton
Okay. Yeah. So let me let me come at it from a little more practical view. So that I think where the objection is coming from a lot of times is, you know, I think there are a lot of churches that let's call them seeker sensitive that are preaching the gospel because they see their sun gathering as a evangelism tool.

00;09;08;02 - 00;09;31;06
Brenton
And that's pretty much it. And so then there's there's little edification coming to the actual body of believers that's in that church because it's just surface level gospel preaching. And so I think there there absolutely is a line there that we need to not shy away from, from hard things. And we need to not just do topical studies on on.

00;09;31;06 - 00;09;51;01
Brenton
David and but so where, where is that line between, you know, people unbelievers coming in on a Sunday and the, the body of believers. How do you how do you serve both of those in preaching?

00;09;51;03 - 00;10;15;11
Chris
Yeah, Well, the first thing I would say is the gathering of the church, you know, Well, here's where our ecclesiology is important. And I'd say one of the problems there's numerous problems with the seeker sensitive approach, but one of them is that they have a faulty ecclesiology and simply the gathering of the church. Just think about that, that it's a gathering.

00;10;15;13 - 00;10;47;11
Chris
Prime meeting is where believers are gathering. Okay. And so that doesn't mean that unbelievers are unwelcome. And I think we even see evidence of this in the New Testament. And we're more than happy to have unbelievers come. But our focus is is on the church. And so, you know, when I'm preparing a message, I don't primarily have a unbelievers in mind.

00;10;47;14 - 00;11;20;02
Chris
Another, there are times maybe a Christmas Eve message sometimes, you know, or sometimes definitely an Easter. I know that there's going to be a larger percentage of unbelievers. And so I definitely have that in mind. But by and large, I'm thinking about believers, which which means how do we apply the gospel to our lives rather than here is let me try to think about how I'm going to evangelize people.

00;11;20;05 - 00;11;46;20
Chris
And so I would say, though, that we've got to not think that, you know, it's the we get to this place where the gospels for unbelievers and then when once we believe the gospel, we kind of put the gospel back up on the shelf, we're going to move on to the deeper things of the Christian life. Because again, the Bible is all about the gospel.

00;11;46;20 - 00;12;23;27
Chris
Every part is about the gospel. And so certainly it's not for believers to to believe the gospel to be saved, but in some ways it there is a need to believe it in a deeper way and then to understand how the gospel transforms every area of our life, or at least is meant to, and how we we need to apply that to marriage, to our finances, to our parenting, to the way that we view our work, to the way that, you know, we're struggling with with various things in our lives.

00;12;23;29 - 00;12;51;22
Chris
So I think the gospel here's the thing that I really believe. If you if you preach the gospel faithfully, you're going to give both believers and unbelievers what what they need with at times. And here's where I think the it gets a little complicated and there's a lot of wisdom that that's needed is that there are times where you certainly the gospel plays differently to a believer than an unbeliever.

00;12;51;24 - 00;13;23;02
Chris
And so so hopefully through Romans everybody has seen how we've attempted to, you know, work through this this nuance where pretty much week after week, we've been making the gospel call for people to repent and believe. But then there's also application to what does this mean to someone who is also repented, I believe. I think there's less Sundays messages, maybe a really good example of that.

00;13;23;02 - 00;13;37;02
Chris
There's basically two two things that we learn about human responsibility or responsibility to believe the gospel that's for unbelievers and then responsibility. Once we believe the gospel to broadcast the gospel, that's for that's for believers.

00;13;37;04 - 00;14;17;03
Brenton
So yeah, yeah, I think something that also plays into it and it's something that's come up a few times in our Roman study is, you know, people that we would maybe assume are saved that are believers in our body, that, that maybe they're not like that that proclamation needs to still go out. And so I think I think without preaching the gospel, you know, week in, week out, you're you're well, maybe I'll add to this that our commitment to to expository preaching here where I mean, we're going through.

00;14;17;03 - 00;14;36;24
Brenton
ROMANS We're not and we're not picking, you know, topical things and then go and go into proof text. We're going through a book of the Bible, and that's our normal way of doing it. Every once in a while we'll get into a topical series. But, you know, as we've gone through. ROMANS you can't preach through Romans without getting to the gospel in every chunk of it.

00;14;36;27 - 00;14;39;27
Brenton
Sure. And so, yeah, yeah.

00;14;40;00 - 00;15;05;13
Chris
Another word to about this, the seeker movement, which is is kind of making seems like a come back a little bit here that wording is is more I know late nineties early 2000 but it seems like I'm hearing more about it and I would just point out that a lot of times they don't even really preach the gospel.

00;15;05;15 - 00;15;15;02
Chris
I mean there yes, there will certainly be a drive for people to, to, you know, try to Christ or.

00;15;15;05 - 00;15;16;26
Brenton
Or try Jesus.

00;15;16;29 - 00;15;42;13
Chris
Or Yeah, you know, but it's not the the, you know, repent of your sins. It's not the what we've seen in Romans that there's none righteous. No, not one. And so you need to turn from your sin and turn to faith in Christ. And in talking about the the deeper, you know, the righteousness, your unrighteous, and you need the righteousness of of God.

00;15;42;13 - 00;16;16;07
Chris
And a lot of times there's also, you know, the topical things, again, about money, parenting, marriage, relationships and all of those things which are not which are good to talk about, but they're they're gospel lights or gospel lessons. And so we're talking about the things that, you know, again, a seeker sense of like they're they we're trying to to identify what they what they need or what they think they need a felt need.

00;16;16;10 - 00;16;41;02
Chris
And, you know, most of the time are felt needs are not a real need. And a real need is for it's for the gospel. And so, honestly, a lot of secret churches are going to they're going to focus more on what people feel like they need rather than getting to what they really do need. And that's the gospel.

00;16;41;09 - 00;17;02;21
Brenton
Yeah, cool. So we're talking about evangelism and there's there's always been this phrase that I've I've kind of lived my life by not really, but this phrase of preach the gospel at all times. Use words if necessary. What are your thoughts on that?

00;17;02;24 - 00;17;33;08
Chris
Yeah, so that's a quote that's attributed to Francis of Assisi and probably wrongly attributed because he was part of a preaching order. And it's it's just faulty because, you know, the gospel is what is good news, right? And so preach the gospel all times, use words if necessary. Well, you have to use words to preach the gospel. Right?

00;17;33;11 - 00;17;54;00
Chris
Because the gospel is not something that you do and it's something you proclaim. I think this is really, really important because you will hear this phrase, I mean, thrown about quite a bit, but so there's this idea behind this question. It's like you you go out and by the way that you live, you preach the gospel.

00;17;54;02 - 00;17;55;27
Brenton
Actions speak louder than words. Kind of.

00;17;55;27 - 00;18;33;16
Chris
Yeah. And and so there is something to to be noted here and is that certainly we need to live in light of the gospel. Our lives should seek to reflect the transformation that the gospel brings. We should seek to follow Jesus and to live as Jesus lived. But we can't preach the gospel without actually sharing news because the good news without sharing words, because the gospel is not about what we do, it's about what God has done.

00;18;33;16 - 00;18;55;29
Chris
It's an announcement. It's a as we talked about on on Sunday, it's heralding good news. So most of the time when that phrase is used, it's it's pointed to something that is incorrect. It's honestly flat out wrong in many ways. You have to use words if you're going to share the gospel.

00;18;56;02 - 00;19;27;01
Brenton
Agreed. Okay. So on to some questions that were submitted earlier this week. The first one, I think brings up an interesting point to talk about. So she asks, Would you agree that evangelism is a sending and not necessarily a calling? Typically, we tend to think the Lord has called me to cross cultural missions, but is it more of general sending as opposed to a calling in life?

00;19;27;01 - 00;19;54;17
Brenton
And I think what she's what she's getting at here is, you know, the the objection to people going to long term missions a lot of times is, well, I don't feel called to that. And and so I think that there the we all have a general calling right from scripture and maybe maybe there's not a specific prompting from the spirit in our lives like there are in some people.

00;19;54;17 - 00;20;07;15
Brenton
But we all have a calling to go. Right. And so where where would you kind of draw that line between I feel called to go or, you know, you are called to go. You were sent. Mm hmm.

00;20;07;17 - 00;20;52;21
Chris
Yeah. Well, I think I tried to make it clear on Sunday. We've all been sent to share the gospel. I think where we have been sent gets more into a calling. If I can kind of divide it up that way. And I don't know if there's a big, you know, difference in in these two words biblically, but I do, you know, the place I go here is at chapter 13, where in the church of Antioch, the beginning of the chapter, there's a bunch of prophets and teachers.

00;20;52;24 - 00;21;22;12
Chris
So a lot of leaders in that church in Antioch was after Jerusalem. The it became kind of the headquarters of the of the early church. It was the it was the kind of the church early on after it moved out of Jerusalem. And so there's there's a bunch of different prophets and teachers. And it says while they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, set apart for me, Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.

00;21;22;14 - 00;22;01;22
Chris
And so I do believe I don't believe everybody is called to cross-cultural missions. Okay. I think that that's pretty obvious there. So I do believe everybody is sent. The question is, is where we sent to and and for most of us were sent simply where we we already are, where God currently has us and to our families in our workplaces, with our friends, neighbors, you know, in our in our community, some maybe even sent in the church to to be involved in children's ministry, student ministry.

00;22;01;22 - 00;22;34;00
Chris
That's a that's real a calling all of those things. Community group leader, all those kind of things. And then there are people who God is going to specifically call to go to leave where they are at and to go somewhere else. And we've had examples of that here in our church in 2023. I would say I think there's a lot more people who are actually called to go cross-culturally than are currently responding and open to that.

00;22;34;02 - 00;23;04;00
Chris
And another area for it for us to grow in. But that's kind of how I would I would do it up. Maybe just to be clear, I think everybody has a God has a calling on their life, every believer. And that some kind of sending we have to discern. And then through prayer and through counsel and guidance by other people in our lives where exactly that sending calling is to.

00;23;04;02 - 00;23;35;04
Chris
And I would just say, I think it's important for everybody to hear this. You have a call, you know, in your life, God has sent you somewhere to some people and you need to wrestle with where that is and commit it to. I love Isaiah Chapter six. It's a really important passage. We could talk about more, but God says, who?

00;23;35;07 - 00;24;07;22
Chris
Who will go for me? And Isaiah responds, I am here. Send, send me. There's a lot more to that passage, but I really do believe that God is sending every believer. And, you know, for Isaiah was to the people, to the people of Israel, his his people already he didn't he didn't go cross culturally. He just goes out, begin to be my mouthpiece, basically, God says, and Jesus is prophet.

00;24;07;22 - 00;24;22;16
Chris
And then for many ways, for most of us, that will be it's already where we are at. But we need to to know what that is and we need to give ourselves to it, every single one of us. Yeah.

00;24;22;18 - 00;24;50;22
Brenton
Yeah. I just I wonder that I agree and I wonder how many, you know, people throughout at least, you know, American Christianity are waiting on some sort of sign to do something. And so I think my my point would really just be that we we should view the Bible as as a calling. We should read the Scriptures as if they are addressed as well.

00;24;50;23 - 00;25;08;24
Brenton
Yeah. And so, yeah, maybe, maybe you're not going to receive some sort of sign that you need to go or it does. I'm not even saying it has to be right across the ocean, but just the, the idea that, you know, the, the Bible is still relevant to us today as as a means to call us. So.

00;25;08;27 - 00;25;30;29
Chris
Well, listen, I have the approach. You remember those machines. I think they probably still got one at Fund City where you put money in and the big cloth is going to go and grab, you know, some stuff dollars or something like that. And let's not view like going and sending calling Like that way is like God will come in and reach and grab him.

00;25;30;29 - 00;25;51;24
Chris
And and we're, we're hoping that it's not us because that's, that's not it at all. And to go back to what you were just talking the great commission is go there for and really that's Matthew 28. It literally reads as you are going. So there's an assumption when Jesus gives very commission, it's there's assumption that we're going to go.

00;25;51;24 - 00;26;24;01
Chris
So in many ways we just need to get going and figure it out along the way. But but I think the big issue is that we're not recognizing that we should be we should be going. It's like questioning whether we should be going or no, we should be going. It's just a matter of where. And for most of us, I would say it's probably just going to be where you are already at and then being open to, you know, and this is where it really goes back.

00;26;24;01 - 00;26;44;28
Chris
If I can just harp on this a little bit, confessing that Jesus is is he really Lord And so does he really get to be the one to determine where I go, what I do with my life. And that that's that is the bottom line question that we have to answer. Are we are we going to submit to his authority in our lives?

00;26;44;28 - 00;26;55;14
Chris
And if we do, then okay, you you've told me to go. I'm going to go. But you should show me where and empower me to do that.

00;26;55;17 - 00;27;33;13
Brenton
Yeah. Good. The next question, this is from a different person and I'm going to kind of try to consolidate this, but he's he's really asking about about evangelism in our culture and in the way that the gospel is viewed as, you know, intolerant and at the same time, we have we have many, you know, world views that are getting pushed our way, that are equally or more so intolerant than than ours and yet not seen that way.

00;27;33;13 - 00;28;04;28
Brenton
They're they're kind of just pushed. And so how do you how do we navigate this culture while we try to evangelize to people, understanding that, you know, the gospel, we understand the gospel is offensive, but for a culture to view it as as almost to the point of intolerance to to not even consider that it's it's relevant anymore, how how do we kind of navigate that?

00;28;05;00 - 00;28;53;02
Chris
It's a good question. It's a tough question. I do think it's important for us to be kind and gentle, bold but but kind and gentle. And I think a lot of times are just our disposition and our attitude and the way that we even speak to people and treat people can can help us out here where yeah, there's a lot of intolerance, but we've got to be careful that that's not kind of the approach and the attitude that we have, which there are people who go at it that way and you can win an argument and and lose lose the soul, so to speak.

00;28;53;03 - 00;29;22;07
Chris
So I think asking questions and going in with with curiosity instead of like walking in the door and here's I've got the answers. And you just need to think the way that I think and believe what I believe. And so trying to I think your studies are really an important idea here is is tell me, tell me more.

00;29;22;08 - 00;29;50;28
Chris
Help me to understand how you how you think about this. Why why you believe this way, what your your heart is doing and regards to a variety of things. Because until we're going to we're not going to be able to actually share the gospel in a way that people are going to be able to hear until we really understand what they're some ways with their story is and why they think the way they do.

00;29;50;28 - 00;30;32;16
Chris
A lot of times there are experiences that people have had with other believers or the church or they've just had things that have happened to them in their life that make it really difficult for them to even hear what we're what we're saying. And so I think trying to understand where people are coming from and to to to show that we are interested in them, in their story, what they have been through and trained to as as we can, you know, build a relationship with them where there is hopefully a freedom to be able to to talk about.

00;30;32;19 - 00;30;32;20
Brenton
The.

00;30;32;21 - 00;31;02;05
Chris
Harder things I think is is is really, really important. But then I, I would go back to the creation for redemption, restoration and and I would say, you know, can we agree that the world is a is a mess, that there's massive problems. And most people will will say that there's there's massive problems. And in the world. Well, can I share you with you why things are why things are that way.

00;31;02;07 - 00;31;45;00
Chris
And then just begin the dialog of what's what's the answer and what's the solution to that. And then I would also say that I think we've got to be careful in getting into politics and then getting into a lot of the issues that are, you know, controversial, whether it be the LGBTQ stuff, you know, climate change and not that not that or maybe a few more things, abortion, you know of right.

00;31;45;01 - 00;32;21;20
Chris
These things and not that that that we can't get into that those kind of things but we've got to remember that what people unbelievers need primarily is not to come to our political viewpoint is not to agree with, you know, the biblical view on on sexuality. It is they need to know Jesus and they need to have a relationship with him that they need to believe the gospel and then know that then once they do believe the gospel, we can get into those things.

00;32;21;23 - 00;33;05;07
Chris
But our goal is not to convert people to our view of politics or our view of sexuality or whatever. And those might even be the biblical view. But but it doesn't do any buddy any good to agree on on what the Bible says about biblical sexuality if they don't actually believe the Gospel long, long term and so let's focus on the gospel and then let's not get caught up in all of these debates where there can be a lot of tension and we can drive people away.

00;33;05;09 - 00;33;31;25
Chris
Let's let's let's focus. And I think, you know, Paul's agreement when we go through the Book of Acts, you know, and Jesus like Jesus, wasn't getting involved in the political discussions of his day. And Paul, we're going to get to this, You know, in Romans there was lots of issues in the Roman Empire with all kinds of moral issues and unbiblical, you know, and ungodly culture.

00;33;31;28 - 00;33;59;14
Chris
And and Paul's not he's not talking about politics. He is not he's not talking about trying to change the culture of the Roman Empire. He's preaching the gospel. He's preaching association, gospel, knowing that And this is actually what happened is that as the gospel was preached, people game saved those things begin those things begin to change. And and so yeah, I'm going on a lot here but I think it's really, really important.

00;33;59;14 - 00;34;26;03
Chris
We we all have strong feelings about, again, things like politics and all these other things and not that those are those are wrong, but a lot of times those things can and we can even offended by unbelievers lifestyle and the choices that they make and the things that they are involved in. And we just got to be careful that those things, we don't major on those things and they can open up doors to talk about the gospel.

00;34;26;03 - 00;34;31;08
Chris
But we're not we're not going to get in arguments and debates about those those.

00;34;31;10 - 00;35;12;20
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. It there's a it's hard to write that that line because I think that at least for me like I, I love to argue I loved to win arguments and so like that's that's hard especially when I know that we have better arguments than than they do. And so the other thing I think is we we maybe I'll say I easily get baited into these conversations because, you know, when you start talking to an unbeliever, that's that's a lot of times their response is you guys do this, you guys do this.

00;35;12;23 - 00;35;38;14
Brenton
And so it's so easy to get pulled into that. And like now the conversation is over trans rights and not like, what am I doing? Why are we here? And it's such an aside to what our job actually is. No, it's not that those things are not important because they absolutely are. But, you know, we are our goal here is is I agree.

00;35;38;14 - 00;35;55;05
Brenton
It's it's Jesus. It's not it's not cool. You got someone that thinks that like gender affirming care should be illegal and great, but it doesn't really do anything for for the person and doesn't really do anything for the kingdom.

00;35;55;08 - 00;36;39;06
Chris
Yeah, well, and I want to be clear here. I think we do have to be careful as I think there is a role in public discussions for sure, for us to stand for, for what is right and also what's, you know, going to be good, good for people. Okay. So it's it is it is harmful, extremely harmful for us when, you know, you come to the gender issue for for us to encourage or even allow, you know, kids to take hormones and different things that are going to, you know, block puberty and different things like that.

00;36;39;06 - 00;37;05;27
Chris
And and then or even surgery, I mean, allowing girls in particular have surgeries and all of these kind of things. That's it's evil quite honestly. It's it's extremely, extremely harmful. And so there is a a place and a need for believers to to stand against that for sure. But we've got to be careful again about how how we how we do that.

00;37;05;29 - 00;37;36;20
Chris
And I think there's a difference between and then in private conversations about how how we go about those things. And we're we're careful not to be angry and heated, but we're we're going to have those discussions, you know, in a way that hopefully is reflective of God's grace and mercy in our lives and then the grace and mercy he desires to show that everybody yeah.

00;37;36;22 - 00;38;00;06
Brenton
Those conversations definitely have their place. I mean, if we're talking public discourse, absolutely stand and stand firm. But I think if we're being honest, most of our conversations happen with. You know, 25 year old Jim, that has no real connection to it. It's just it's just a political debate. Yeah, right. It's not going anywhere. You're not you're not solving any issues.

00;38;00;08 - 00;38;26;02
Brenton
And so the the point is, I think that we we want to we want to stay firm on the gospel and that that's that's the point. But the other thing I think I'll say here, because his his question had to do with, you know, the the secular culture. I think I think in a lot of ways the secular culture has been far better than we have at spreading their their message.

00;38;26;02 - 00;39;02;02
Brenton
And I think they're really good at infiltrating culture. And so and a lot of that happens subliminally. And I think that we, first of all, should rejoice that salvation belongs to the Lord because we're not going to win this fight on our own. But with I think that we need to we need to believe that and we need to stay consistent in our in our message and understand that it's it's God's work to save.

00;39;02;02 - 00;39;18;14
Brenton
And it's it's our work to obey. And so even though it is demoralizing to see, like, how our culture has shifted to some of these things, I think that we still we still need to stand firm on on the gospel. And so, yeah.

00;39;18;17 - 00;39;32;11
Chris
Yeah, I would I would just go back in and I think that this gets missed a lot. The Roman culture of Paul's Day was as bad or worse than our culture today.

00;39;32;11 - 00;39;33;28
Brenton
So lately.

00;39;34;00 - 00;40;09;14
Chris
And the way that the church grew and in many ways overthrew that culture and that's a little bit of a strong word. But the way that Christianity eventually became got to the point where Constantine and people argue about this, but basically recognize Christianity as the official religion in Roman Empire, because he basically it was a political move, probably because of how many Christians there there actually were in it.

00;40;09;15 - 00;40;38;02
Chris
You know, So it goes from 120 to the predominant religion in the Roman Empire in 300 years or so. It it wasn't a political movement. Yeah. No, he he made it maybe a political move, but it wasn't a political movement that that led to that. It was because the followers of Jesus preach the gospel and then lived in light of the gospel, and they did not.

00;40;38;04 - 00;40;57;19
Chris
It was So, for example, let's just talk about the abortion issue. Abortion in those days was much different. They would actually have the babies and then if they didn't want the baby, they would just leave him out there to die, okay? They just would expose them. What the Christians did is they didn't have this big political movement to change the laws or whatever.

00;40;57;21 - 00;41;28;00
Chris
They went out and they took the babies. They went out looking for the babies in the garbage outside the city. And they brought them in and they adopted them. And and so it was subversive in the sense that we're going to go out and we're going to live this way when the plague would hit major cities such as Rome and and everybody would flee, the Christians would stay and they would care for the sick and and the dying.

00;41;28;02 - 00;42;00;20
Chris
And and so they would live self-sacrificial lives. They would they modeled after Jesus. And so and then then as they do that, they're sharing the gospel. And eventually, you know, it grew so big because of way they were living and what they were saying. And people come into faith. And so I think that that's a really important model for us, is to avoid these political arguments where we're trying to make people sheet them into our mold so that they think the way that we think.

00;42;00;20 - 00;42;38;05
Chris
And instead and I do think this is important is the way that we live, the kind of lives that we live now. Again, you know, we've got to preach the gospel because our lives are not going to save any money. What they will give, they will give a hearing for the gospel. And so where people might say, you're intolerant, you know, or your views, you know, is there harmful or those kind of things if they can if they, on the other hand, look in and the way that we are living and the way that we are speaking and there's a there's a gentleness and a calmness about us, that can be a great testimony to

00;42;38;05 - 00;43;07;27
Chris
this gospel truth that we're saying. And so I'm going to get into it a little bit more here. This is why what we watch and what we consume through our media is important that we we are not watching and consuming people who maybe they maybe share our political views, but they're bringing it about in a harsh and a demeaning way.

00;43;07;29 - 00;43;33;25
Chris
And we've had to realize that much of that media is simply a way to make money. They know how to make money and they they they inflame these things. Right. What they do is that there's a problem. And when if you can make a problem, you can make money by inflaming the problem, getting people upset and all that kind of stuff.

00;43;33;27 - 00;44;11;11
Chris
And that that is not the way of Jesus. And if we're listening and watching and consuming things that are making us inflaming us, anger in anger and and especially towards people who don't think the way that we do that in many ways is is opposed to the gospel and is certainly going to prohibit us from being able to to share the gospel instead of, okay, this person here isn't my enemy, that they're actually someone who needs to know Jesus.

00;44;11;11 - 00;44;39;16
Chris
And so how do I how do I present that in myself, really myself? And then the gospel in a way that is going to hopefully win, win them over. So there's there's a lot there. But I, I think it's really, really important. One of the biggest things I think that's preventing us from evangelizing effectively is the media that we consume and the people that we are.

00;44;39;16 - 00;44;47;08
Chris
We are listening to. And so yeah, I'll leave it at that.

00;44;47;08 - 00;45;16;11
Brenton
Yeah, that's good. Yeah. The only thing I'll I'll add to that I think is, is we need to remember, you know, what we've learned in Romans about unbelievers. We need to remember that they are spiritually dead. And so, you know, if, if our tactics are to change their mind on something, we're not, we're not really doing anything we're like we're we're making a a dead man changed his mind on something.

00;45;16;11 - 00;45;45;12
Brenton
And so I think that we we need to recognize that. And with that, show them grace, show them mercy, pity them because of their situation, because had had we not received God's grace, we'd be there worse. And so be gracious, be loving and keep a consistent worldview with Scripture.

00;45;45;15 - 00;46;18;25
Chris
So yeah, I guess my point is there is, is like the media that we consume is a really important forming. Yeah. Formation factor in a small group and yeah, so I think we all need to wrestle with how much of it more consuming and to recognize that the the, the media knows how to make money and they know how to make money by getting people agitated about things.

00;46;18;27 - 00;46;20;17
Brenton
You got any names in mind?

00;46;20;19 - 00;46;27;27
Chris
I do, but I. Yeah, I can read between the lines. Yeah.

00;46;28;00 - 00;46;43;28
Brenton
Okay. Well, I think I'm going to wrap it up there. I appreciate the conversation. Thanks for sending in those questions. I think they they sparked some some good thoughts and keep sending them in. And we will talk to you next week.