Episode 27: The Obedient Prophet

00;00;02;17 - 00;00;23;19
Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to Further and Britain Grimm. And today we have Nathan Williams with us. How's it going?

00;00;23;21 - 00;00;25;25
Nathan
It's going good, thanks. Good here today.

00;00;25;27 - 00;00;53;17
Brenton
This last weekend, you preached a message on Jonah three. And really, this is where Jonah finally gives in and says, okay, I'll go. And it's kind of his journey. And then what happens in Nineveh? So, you know, as I was thinking through what we were going to talk about today, I think you you were in many ways the right person to preach this message.

00;00;53;20 - 00;01;09;02
Brenton
Knowing you personally for a while now, you you not only have a strong conviction to preach to unbelievers, but you have the willingness to do it and to do it consistently. But that hasn't always been the case, has it?

00;01;09;04 - 00;01;31;10
Nathan
No. Well, let's say I have I've always had a conviction to to speak to people, but I have not always be ready to do it. Yeah. And there's a difference there knowing what you should do and doing it is two different things. And I would say I've always said to say, you know, I know I should be sharing my faith and, you know, we should be speaking to unbelievers.

00;01;31;10 - 00;01;53;11
Nathan
I know I should be sharing the gospel with them, my faith with them. But being an introvert, which I am by nature, and a lot of people say, Oh, you're just evangelist, you like sharing your gospel, you're an extra. No, I'm not by nature, I'm not. So this has been a journey for me. And I've found out that, you know, sometimes you just got to step out of your comfort zone and you just got to start doing it.

00;01;53;11 - 00;02;07;27
Nathan
And when you start doing is like, Oh, I wasn't as bad as I thought I was going to be. And the more you do it, the more confidence you build in it and it becomes part of who you are and part of your nature. And it's like now it's almost I can't stop myself and it's awesome, you know?

00;02;08;00 - 00;02;17;16
Nathan
And I just that would be my desire for everyone to get to the place where it's like it just comes second nature and it doesn't start because, oh.

00;02;17;19 - 00;02;19;13
Nathan
My, just goodness, I just have a gift.

00;02;19;14 - 00;02;27;05
Nathan
No, it starts by being obedient. And Jonah didn't want to do it. He didn't want to be a bit. But he did. He did in the end. Yeah.

00;02;27;07 - 00;02;43;21
Brenton
Yeah, I know that you've definitely been an encouragement to me in this in this area. Can you, can you kind of talk us through your journey of not only becoming a pastor? Because I think that that's important, but but also just the way that God's transformed me to be, to be bold with the Gospel?

00;02;43;28 - 00;03;07;08
Nathan
Yeah, sure. To be quite honest with you. And when we first came to Harmony Bible Church, now it's been 30, 34 years ago, and not long after coming here, they said, Hey, Nathan, you want to teach kindergarten? And and I says, No. And of course, they didn't argue with me. They were very gentle, kind, and they just left me alone.

00;03;07;08 - 00;03;26;11
Nathan
But I felt guilty about that because I'm like, I need to do it. But I don't feel capable. I'll fail. You know what I mean? And that fear of failure is Satan wants us to feel like we're going to fail. So therefore, don't even try right? Well, a year later, they said, Hey, you want to teach kindergarten? I'm like, okay.

00;03;26;11 - 00;03;38;09
Nathan
And I did. And I found out I knew more than the kindergartners. So the next year was fourth grade. And once again, now this is stepping out of my comfort zone. But knowing that God help me the first time was like.

00;03;38;09 - 00;03;40;03
Nathan
You know what? I'll give it a shot.

00;03;40;06 - 00;04;02;23
Nathan
I did that for a year. Then they said seventh grade, seventh and eighth grade. And like, Oh boy, I got this is really a big step of faith thinking I could do this. I mean, he's got kids. They're junior high kids. They're going to chew me up and spit me out. But it wasn't the case. I mean, it's when we're trusting in God and his ability to work through me.

00;04;02;26 - 00;04;24;15
Nathan
So from that thing to the next. And God is so patient and gentle and kind, given us another chance for one, just like you did Jonah, when I said no is all right, I'm going to give you another chance. Let's see how you do do it. You know what I mean? And. And then just teaching junior high four for a few years, you know, on Sunday mornings and on Wednesday nights.

00;04;24;15 - 00;04;26;11
Nathan
And it just gave me a boldness like.

00;04;26;13 - 00;04;28;05
Nathan
You know what? I can do this.

00;04;28;05 - 00;04;46;09
Nathan
And just start sharing with people that my work with and just people I would meet on the streets. And for an introvert that doesn't like to talk to people, period, and all of a sudden I'm getting a boldness because I see the power of what I say, not because it's what I say, but it's because what God says.

00;04;46;09 - 00;05;21;01
Nathan
And I'm just repeating it and seeing people respond in that way. It's like, Wow, there's power in the words of the Bible. And it just it gave me a confidence that is just once again, it's not me, it's God working through yourself. So these have been some of the steps that have brought me, and there's more, but we don't have all day, but there's more that just brought me to the place where God has taken a guy who is scared to teach kindergarten to someone who's not afraid to get up and preach sermon on Sunday morning, morning and Jonah, chapter three and share his faith.

00;05;21;01 - 00;05;23;00
Nathan
But somebody meets on the street. Yeah.

00;05;23;03 - 00;05;47;14
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. And I can I can relate to that in many ways. At least your early years. Um, you know, I'm a, I'm a definitely an introvert and even even doing this show, doing doing this podcast every week is, is pretty far out of my comfort zone. And so it is amazing the transformation that happens when you just kind of step out and and trust.

00;05;47;16 - 00;06;04;14
Brenton
But I also wonder, you know, I think it can be in, in people's minds that, you know, I'm just not I'm not called into ministry, so why do I need to do this? And was that your experience at all? Did you did you kind of feel that way? You were a sheet metal worker, right?

00;06;04;14 - 00;06;04;29
Nathan
Correct.

00;06;05;00 - 00;06;10;17
Brenton
Yeah. You you didn't have any vocation, personal idea that you were going to be a pastor at that point?

00;06;10;19 - 00;06;44;17
Nathan
No, no. But I knew enough of the Bible to know that even when you say the word vocation, we're all cult. Yeah, And I knew that. And so whether whether you're title as pastor or elder or you were, that's your full time employment church. No, Every one of us, every one of us are called to share the gospel went when when Jesus gave the Great Commission in Matthew 28, he says he's speaking to all of us.

00;06;44;19 - 00;07;02;09
Nathan
And he says, and we know that because he says, and Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the year. So he wasn't just talking to his disciples. They were going to die. A few years later, he's talking to all believers who would follow him and says, This is your responsibility. Go and spread the word.

00;07;02;11 - 00;07;24;25
Nathan
Make disciples baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have. This is a commandment to every one of us. And and I knew I knew that it was a copout if I was going to say, Well, that's not my job. Yeah, it is my job. And I knew this.

00;07;24;27 - 00;07;31;12
Nathan
So when I wasn't doing it, I tell you what, I felt guilty about it and that's not a good feeling.

00;07;31;13 - 00;07;34;22
Nathan
Yeah, you know what I mean? It's. Yeah.

00;07;34;25 - 00;08;02;13
Brenton
Yeah. No, that's, that's helpful. Something that you pointed out on Sunday was that Jonah that as Jonah preached to the innovates, the text doesn't say that that they believe Jonah it says that they believed God. And and what you brought out of that was that our job is is merely to proclaim the message and not to convert people that converting people is is the spirit's work.

00;08;02;16 - 00;08;29;22
Brenton
And so I wonder how much of what holds us back is the pressure we put on ourselves to defend Christianity. Because if we don't, then then people won't believe. And my goal certainly isn't to discount apologetics in any way. I think it's incredibly important. I guess my goal here is to point out that our aptitude in apologetics should not hold us back from obeying the command to proclaim the message.

00;08;29;25 - 00;08;38;25
Brenton
And so how would you encourage someone that's kind of in that position of just doubting their their I don't know, the value in this arena.

00;08;38;27 - 00;08;59;18
Nathan
Or their ability to even share the gospel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. One of the biggest things that holds us back is fear. And Satan wants us to fear because he doesn't want us to share the gospel right now. Apologetics, meaning studying.

00;08;59;20 - 00;09;01;08
Brenton
You know, the defense of the.

00;09;01;08 - 00;09;34;18
Nathan
Faith, the defense of the faith, how I can be absolutely very, very important. And I think every believer should be doing that, in fact. Second, Timothy 215 says Be diligent to present yourself, approve to God a worker who is not, who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Yeah, yeah. Really a sin. Do your best to be able to understand it so that you can share it with others.

00;09;34;18 - 00;10;02;06
Nathan
Now, here's the deal. When we're faithful, God's going to give us opportunities according to our abilities. I really believe that. And we should be as Christians. We should be growing and knowing the word and knowing how to rightly divide it as it says here. Yeah, one of the one of the best things I've had that's actually been helpful to me and I've shared this with a lot of people is Wayne grew to me.

00;10;02;11 - 00;10;28;18
Nathan
He writes this big, thick book called Systematic Theology, but he's got he's got a little short book called Christian Beliefs. Yeah. And says 20 basics. Every Christian should know. And it just is so helpful explaining the Trinity, explaining what mankind is, what God is, what angels and demons are, all these things that everybody has questions about. It's like, Oh, well, I hope somebody doesn't ask me, you know, in case I don't know.

00;10;28;18 - 00;10;32;14
Nathan
Well, study up on it. You should know. But but the most.

00;10;32;14 - 00;10;59;16
Nathan
Important thing is that you don't let that stop you. You know, a couple of great examples I like from the Bible are do you remember the story? And acts? Is it three, I believe, where we have Acts three, where Peter and John go, They're going into the temple and there's this lame man standing there and they says, Hey, we don't have any money, but hey, look at us.

00;10;59;16 - 00;11;18;23
Nathan
And he looks at me, says, What I do have, I will give you in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk. And what did word the man do? He leaped up and I quote, He looked leaped up, He stood and began to walk. And he entered the temple with them, walking and leaping and praising God.

00;11;18;25 - 00;11;44;27
Nathan
Here's here's a man who was literally 10 seconds before he was laying lame, and now he's praising God. And verse nine says, And all the people saw him walking and praising God. He was witnessing by just praising another great one. I love it. This is the story of Jesus. And his disciples went in a boat to the other side of the sea, and there was a there was a a demon possessed man.

00;11;45;04 - 00;12;08;00
Nathan
This guy was was literally controlled by demons. I mean, he was he was so bad sea so bad. Jesus cast the demons out of it. And this man, he was in his right mind and clothes and and people are like, what? And here's the deal. This guy says, Jesus, I want to go with you. And you said, No, no, no, I've got a better job for you.

00;12;08;05 - 00;12;34;28
Nathan
Here's what you need to do. He says, and I quote again, Mark chapter five and go, Go home to your friends and tell them how much the Lord has done for you and how He has had mercy on you in verse 20, Did the man do that? Yes. And he went away and began to proclaim in the capital this how much Jesus had done for him.

00;12;35;00 - 00;13;00;16
Nathan
And here's the response. And everyone marveled, Here's a man who is controlled by Satan, had no had no knowledge of the Bible, but he could tell them how much Jesus had done for us. Some of the greatest evangelist, Brandon Brennan, are people who are new believers now because they're excited, they know it, and sometimes then we get into this idea of, Well.

00;13;00;16 - 00;13;05;05
Nathan
What if I can't answer a questions? I'll tell you what, if you can't, that's okay. Say.

00;13;05;07 - 00;13;08;09
Nathan
That's a really great question. Can I get back to you on that?

00;13;08;11 - 00;13;10;19
Nathan
But otherwise, just share who Jesus is.

00;13;10;19 - 00;13;17;27
Nathan
Share what Jesus has done for you. Yeah. And that's probably the best way to start an evangelism conversation. Yeah.

00;13;18;00 - 00;13;43;03
Brenton
Yeah. I think part of our hesitation and we'll get to it a little later is just the the fear like you brought up. And we'll talk about that a little later. But I think also going back to the the great Commission, I think that it's common to kind of missed. The second part of that is teaching them to obey everything and commanded and you know that that is not should not be discounted at all.

00;13;43;03 - 00;14;06;05
Brenton
That's that's very important that we need to continue to disciple people as they are converted. But I think that's not necessarily done by the same person all the time either. Like there's still a place for someone to come in and just, hey, this is this is my story, This is the gospel. And I think that's that's completely okay.

00;14;06;06 - 00;14;34;25
Brenton
Now, I don't think that's the best place for a Christian to stay is if if they can't disciple someone like that, that should be a challenge to to every believer, to be able to disable someone, to be able to, you know, be growing in their knowledge and wisdom. But no matter where you're at, like, you can still do, you can still do that.

00;14;34;25 - 00;14;37;25
Brenton
You can still you can still at least tell them your story. So.

00;14;37;25 - 00;15;01;13
Nathan
Right, right. Yeah. And you know, the Bible says we all have different gifts. And so some people do have more of the gift of evangelism or teachers. Maybe. Maybe those teachers are like, Hey, someone's come to faith, hey, let me walk alongside them and teach them and and encourage them. And so so I'm not saying everybody has the gift of evangelism.

00;15;01;19 - 00;15;25;17
Nathan
I'm just saying, you know what? We all have an obligation to share our faith. Let people know who you are. What really scares me, Brenton, is the amount of, I'm going to say so-called Christian. They call themselves Christians. They come to church, but nobody outside the church walls even knows they're a believer. And to me they're not functioning.

00;15;25;24 - 00;15;42;24
Nathan
So. So the Bible says we are ambassadors for Christ, we represent Christ. And if you just come on a Sunday morning and hear it all and walk away, you're not represent Christ, you're not an ambassador. So so there's lots of ways to be an ambassador. And one of those things is really being able to share the gospel with people.

00;15;42;26 - 00;16;07;08
Nathan
Another way is like, come along someone side some of the sharing the gospel and say, Hey, I want to disciple this person. I want to walk with them. I want to invite them into my my small group. I want to invite them to go to church with me and walk along side with them and ask answer questions. You know, there's there's so many ways we can get involved but be involved like this from my big chance to everybody.

00;16;07;15 - 00;16;28;09
Brenton
Yeah, that's kind of gets back to the parable of the talents, too. And we're given what we're given, right? So. Right. But but if we're not using even the littlest part of, of what we're given, then I mean, we, we, we need to be taking advantage of the things that that God is has graciously given us.

00;16;28;11 - 00;16;49;15
Nathan
So well. You start out by asking about my story. And whenever I think of my story, I think of the parable of the talents. Yeah. So, so remembering the parable of the talents, the master called in his three servants to when he gave five talents, the one he gave two and the other he gave one. Right. And so they went away and the one of five he invested five turned it into five more.

00;16;49;15 - 00;17;08;06
Nathan
The one with the two turned it into two more, the one with the one didn't use it at all. And of course when the master came back, they all reported on what they had done and the one who didn't do anything with it. The match that you wicked lazy servant, you know, and he took it away from. But, but, but going back, I'm going to put myself in the two two talent.

00;17;08;09 - 00;17;26;27
Nathan
One, I'm definitely not the maybe I might be even That's debatable. I might even be a one. But I hopefully I'm not like the one that that that in the parable. But but here's the thing I would say I got one or two talents. You know, I wouldn't look at myself and say, Man, I'm such a talent. But here's the deal.

00;17;26;29 - 00;17;54;01
Nathan
When when when Jesus is telling the story, the application from that is you might not be very good at evangelism, but if you at least try, if you share your faith, God's going to say, Oh, you just invested it. Now I'm going to make you better at that. Now I'm going to. So so and I would say when I started out, I wasn't very good at evangelism, but I've grown over that.

00;17;54;01 - 00;18;08;11
Nathan
The more times you do it, the better you get at it. And I like to tell people about how how when my wife and I were married and our meeting and we would go somewhere and people would ask her, Is your husband okay? And she says.

00;18;08;14 - 00;18;14;20
Nathan
Yeah, he's all right. He just likes to sit and watch people, you know, You know, I'm not the life of the party.

00;18;14;23 - 00;18;18;18
Brenton
I can relate so much to this right now. My wife is laughing.

00;18;18;20 - 00;18;41;11
Nathan
But. But, but. But people laugh because. Because I say that, you know what I mean? And now, like, if we go to the supermarket or something and somebody say, Ah, looking at the vegetables, hey, those apples are really good. I had them like, they're the best. And, and I'll just start a conversation here. I mean, and pretty soon when we're walking away after having a conversation after time, as my wife says, Who's that?

00;18;41;11 - 00;19;05;08
Nathan
And I'm like, I don't know. Or try it in the in the line at the checkout line. You just mentioning something. Here's the thing. God has given me the ability to communicate with people because I did it when it wasn't comfortable to for me and because I use that talent as small as it was. Here's the talent. He gave me a tongue.

00;19;05;10 - 00;19;23;12
Nathan
I was able to speak. That's about as far as a win, but I used it and he says, Now I'm going to be able to use it to be persuasive in persuading and talking to people and sharing the gospel. So use it or lose it is kind of the the analogy there, the one with the one that didn't use it, he lost it.

00;19;23;17 - 00;19;24;18
Nathan
Yeah.

00;19;24;20 - 00;19;43;23
Brenton
Yeah. And I think we have the tendency in going back to this last question, we have the tendency to kind of look inward and say like, what? What do I, what do I have in myself to be able to to communicate this message or whatever. But I mean, if you, if you kind of compare it to that parable, these are all gifts from God anyway.

00;19;43;23 - 00;20;18;23
Brenton
And so let's let's not ignore that we've been given gifts by God to to do this. So. Hmm. All right. You mentioned that Jonah didn't come into Nineveh singing Jesus Loves Me, right? He came. He came with a warning of destruction if they didn't repent. So what are your thoughts on balancing kind of the the love and forgiveness side of things with, I guess, how it's how it's normally colloquially said hell, hellfire and brimstone message.

00;20;18;23 - 00;20;25;01
Brenton
How do you how do you balance those things?

00;20;25;03 - 00;20;55;11
Nathan
And so when we just start shouting at people, you and me, I mean. Turner Burn. Yeah, you mean. Yeah, yeah, go on. I mean, like, no, people are like, what is the matter with this crazy guy, you know? I mean, as much as that might be true, we never won an argument, but by I would arguing someone, you know, I mean, most of the time we won someone over by listening being gentle.

00;20;55;14 - 00;20;59;19
Nathan
And a lot of times what I like to do is before I even begin to share the gospel.

00;20;59;21 - 00;21;14;03
Nathan
I start ask them question. Hey, how are you? Yeah. Yeah. Well. Hey, how's everything going? You look a little concerned. Worried? Is everything okay? And, you know, I mean, people just open up.

00;21;14;05 - 00;21;34;15
Nathan
You have showed that you care for them. You know, you might care for them, that they're. That they're going into all eternity about Christ. But. But if you just start there, you haven't shown them that you really care. But when you when you start asking questions and sharing with people and see.

00;21;34;17 - 00;21;40;12

Jesus heal the sick, he fed the hungry and he showed them he actually.

00;21;40;12 - 00;21;58;02
Nathan
Cared about them. Now, did he also tell them to repent? You betcha. Yeah, but. But. But. But he also showed me care. So we've got to show people we care. And then in a gentle is way possible. Let them know we care about the returnee.

00;21;58;05 - 00;21;58;26
Nathan
And I think that's.

00;21;58;26 - 00;22;18;14
Nathan
For me, that's. That's the best approach anyway. It's just show them you care. Yeah. It's amazing how many people for me and I see that regularly at the Burlington campus when people are coming in and you just sit down and start talking to him, you know, just people that come in that might be looking for benevolence or something.

00;22;18;16 - 00;22;27;10
Nathan
And and you kind of say, Hey, you know what? It must be hard for you as a single mother. Wow, you got four kids.

00;22;27;10 - 00;22;28;27

How do you do it?

00;22;28;29 - 00;22;30;22
Nathan
And and they're like.

00;22;30;22 - 00;22;37;29
Nathan
Yeah, yeah, it's hard. It's hard. But then you say, Can I pray for you? And they're like, Well, sure.

00;22;38;02 - 00;23;03;16
Nathan
And you pray. And when you when you say, Man, open your eyes. And look, I haven't there's just tears flowing down there because there's there's power in prayer. There's power in the fact that they know you love them enough to lift up them to God. And it just opens them to then listening to what you have to say, you showed them you care.

00;23;03;18 - 00;23;24;07
Nathan
And then I can also tell them about, Hey, Jesus loves you so much that he died for you because of your sin. And I'm not at all afraid of telling people are saying it, but how I usually do it is okay. You understand? You're a sinner just like me, you know? And you always see the hackles going up.

00;23;24;07 - 00;23;47;03
Nathan
And me when you say you're a sinner. But then when you say, just like me, they're like, Huh, okay, okay. He understands me, he understands me, he cares about me. And I think that's the best way of just getting into the idea that we're sinners and we're on a fast road to nowhere. Good. Apart from Christ. But then you get to share Christ.

00;23;47;05 - 00;24;16;11
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah. I think one side of that is you kind of have flashbacks of the Westboro Baptist. Oh, yeah. When that was all happening, and, I don't know, maybe they still maybe they're still going. But, you know, I think I think what you're saying is ideally these these conversations happen in relationship and maybe maybe that's not a super deep relationship, but it's at least like being interested in in the person.

00;24;16;11 - 00;24;50;01
Brenton
It's and that's not even to discount like street preaching because I think there can be a a time for that and there can be people that are really good at that and do it thoughtfully and graciously. But you know, another thing that I think in some ways this the love and forgiveness side and the hellfire and brimstone side are kind of a false dichotomy because, I mean, the the the Hellfire side, the the judgment side is still a means of grace.

00;24;50;05 - 00;25;14;17
Brenton
I mean, we see that in the Jonah story, right? He he goes through and says, 40 days, you have to repent. And that and that's all we have recorded of of what he said. But maybe he probably did say more. I don't know. But that that's how it was condensed to get in scripture. Right. And that was the means that that God used for for the saving of the city.

00;25;14;17 - 00;25;33;13
Brenton
And so I think the two try to separate the two is kind of silly. There's obviously we need both but but us us putting forth this warning is is love is loving hmm if if it's true.

00;25;33;16 - 00;25;53;14
Nathan
I'm just having you so so if we believe the Bible and we know the Bible, I'm going to be bold enough to say we know we're right. Yeah, sure. But you know, that can come across arrogantly. Do you remember the rich young ruler who came to Jesus and he says, What must I do to hurt the kingdom of God?

00;25;53;16 - 00;25;56;22
Nathan
You know what? Jesus responds. He didn't just say, Here's what you got to do. He says.

00;25;56;24 - 00;25;58;01
Nathan
What's the Bible say?

00;25;58;03 - 00;26;11;02
Nathan
Or what do What do you think? And of course, the region ruler says, Yeah, you got to love the Lord, your God with all your heart, and we all your mind and all your soul. And you've got to obey the commandments and, you know, and Jesus.

00;26;11;04 - 00;26;14;11
Nathan
God guess it's a good start. You do that.

00;26;14;11 - 00;26;21;24
Nathan
Perfectly. Yeah, of course. Because there is a young ruler and you couldn't do it. Perfect. But. But, but, but he went into dialog.

00;26;21;26 - 00;26;26;26
Nathan
Yeah. What do you believe? And a lot of times it's like people wanted to share.

00;26;26;26 - 00;26;30;21
Nathan
What they believe, and then they'll turn around and say, Well, what do you believe.

00;26;30;23 - 00;26;32;08
Nathan
And say, Hey, you know what?

00;26;32;10 - 00;26;39;28
Nathan
Maybe I used maybe I might say, Well, I used to have a lot of similar thoughts to you. But, you know, after reading the Bible and, you know, and just just then.

00;26;39;28 - 00;26;42;23
Nathan
Show that this is not my thoughts, you know, I mean, this this is.

00;26;42;26 - 00;26;57;02
Nathan
What I got from the Bible. This is God's speak. And it's like it doesn't matter really what I think, you know what I mean? And so that that's been helpful for me, too. And just say, you know what? There's some things that I don't really like that, you know, I wish it was different, but, you know, I.

00;26;57;02 - 00;27;00;03
Nathan
Just got to trust God and people listen to that.

00;27;00;03 - 00;27;19;15
Nathan
Because it doesn't come across as arrogant as like the Westboro Baptist who say, you're going to hell, you know, whatever. And because you've got you talked about a relationship, you've got into a relationship, you're not just there. This is what you need to do. You are what what do you believe? Just like Jesus did with reading. What was the Bible say?

00;27;19;15 - 00;27;21;28
Nathan
What do you think? Yeah.

00;27;22;01 - 00;27;46;24
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. And I you know, going back to the Westboro Baptist, I think that the the problem there is not necessarily what they're saying. It's some of it is for sure. But, but so much of it is like do you, do they really want people to be saved like that? And that's that's the question. Of course, we're going to the extreme here of who they are.

00;27;46;24 - 00;28;14;20
Brenton
But like when we I think that that's the the kind of the wrap that that the hellfire side of this gets is like all you want to do is just judge people. You don't you're not actually looking for their forgiveness, but but that's what we need to keep in mind, this idea of kind of like truth and grace that all of that should be with with the end goal of like bringing redemption in their life.

00;28;14;24 - 00;28;32;16
Nathan
And you said truth there. And we don't want to we don't want to avoid the truth, because the truth is, without Christ, we are condemned. Yeah, I am. But I love the way Ephesians chapter four says it says Speaking the truth in love.

00;28;32;18 - 00;28;33;05
Brenton
Yeah.

00;28;33;07 - 00;28;42;15
Nathan
And if we are not speaking the truth in love, people see right through us. And so. Yeah.

00;28;42;18 - 00;29;10;20
Brenton
Yeah. So seemingly Nineveh was the last city that someone would expect to repent like they did. And, and I think we can get into that kind of mindset with people today too. We can consider people hopeless, right? How how do you approach that? Because I know you deal with a lot of people coming in for benevolence that struggle with a lot of things that, you know, most of the people going to harmony just don't struggle with.

00;29;10;22 - 00;29;26;23
Brenton
Right? And so those those people that are kind of kind of seen on the fringes of of society, I think I think it's it might be kind of common to see those people as hopeless, but you don't. So how do you how do you approach that?

00;29;27;00 - 00;29;56;19
Nathan
Well, they are hopeless apart from Christ now. And and he has more power than I can even open my mind up to. And I'm just going to be where I answer it. Brennan There's a couple of people that I'm like, Why even share the gospel with them? There's no hope for them. There's no turning back from them. And and then to see a few years later, it's like, Whoa, what happened?

00;29;56;20 - 00;30;19;10
Nathan
Right? God got a hold of them. And one instance was it was a gentleman that that I didn't even put much time into it. All he knew or I stood, you know what I mean? But this guy was so crude and rude and everything else is like, is like, yeah, for I got more time to spend on people who I think there's a hope for.

00;30;19;12 - 00;30;38;25
Nathan
But he called me one day, says, I don't know what you have, but I need would you you need to come And he placed faith in Christ In other words, is a young lady that that that actually am. I had given up all hope on her. She was messed up. She had drugs. She had lost her kids and everything.

00;30;38;27 - 00;31;03;29
Nathan
Today, today. And when Christ got a hold of her, she is a leader, has celebrate recovery in our ministry now. And she is such a shining light. I mean, it is awesome. I wish so many more people that go to church could be like her. And that's the power of Jesus Christ, right? When God gets a hold of a person.

00;31;04;01 - 00;31;07;13
Nathan
It doesn't matter what we think when God got.

00;31;07;13 - 00;31;11;15
Nathan
A hold of the invites, it's like.

00;31;11;18 - 00;31;13;01
Nathan
Who never thought? Yeah.

00;31;13;03 - 00;31;34;19
Nathan
I mean, you read in Jonah to two books later name and and you'll it gives a description of the invites I mean they were unbelievably yeah I mean it talks about heaps of bodies they were walking across.

00;31;34;22 - 00;31;36;21
Nathan
I mean these were people that.

00;31;36;23 - 00;32;04;04
Nathan
Now there's no hope for them. Yeah, but God. Yeah, but God. And that's why I just kept I have to keep stopping myself, like now, now he is more and over and above anything that I ever could ever think or imagine, because he has the power to just convict the worst of the worst.

00;32;04;07 - 00;32;07;08
Nathan
He's unbelievable. I can't believe it.

00;32;07;08 - 00;32;10;21
Nathan
I can't even fathom it. Yeah.

00;32;10;24 - 00;32;21;05
Brenton
Yeah. I think those situations can get really discouraging at times for people to that. You know, you kind of spend a a lot of time to pouring into someone and don't see any results.

00;32;21;07 - 00;32;22;01
Nathan
Right.

00;32;22;03 - 00;32;47;20
Brenton
Um, but, but first of all, I think just to acknowledge that again, even the person that you, you think like was close to salvation and like there's only a little bit more to go, that's just as much of work of, of, of the spirit as the person you would never believe would be saved. Right. And so I think just to really drive into ourselves, it's a work in the spirit.

00;32;47;20 - 00;32;51;24
Brenton
It's not us. We we have to just be faithful to.

00;32;51;26 - 00;33;00;18
Nathan
The demon possessed man. Yeah, Yeah. Who to thought? You know, Legion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;33;00;20 - 00;33;17;02
Brenton
One thing that I had never considered was was the journey between where the fish puked him up at and then Nineveh. And you gave it kind of a few ideas as to his mental state during this very long journey. How long did you say it was?

00;33;17;04 - 00;33;21;07
Nathan
Anywhere between, like, 500 and 650 miles. Yeah.

00;33;21;09 - 00;33;22;14
Brenton
Yeah, It's a lot back then.

00;33;22;14 - 00;33;22;29
Nathan
Yeah, it's.

00;33;22;29 - 00;33;45;02
Brenton
A lot today that, you know, he may be rightfully scared, just like we just talked about of of how they're going to respond, how Nineveh is going to respond to him. Or as we see in chapter four, maybe he's still not happy that God's going to show them grace. Yeah, but you said that he's being obedient regardless of how he's feeling.

00;33;45;06 - 00;34;06;18
Brenton
Yeah. And and maybe that's easier to do after you just spent three days in a fish, and you you've had this very direct call from God. But how can we put our feelings behind us and just evangelize? And we've, we talked about this a little earlier, but can you kind of condense this for us?

00;34;06;21 - 00;34;30;17
Nathan
Yeah, it's it's it really comes to do I want to be obedient to God or not? And in our arrogance, sometimes I think it's like, you know what? I don't care what I think God's wants from me. It's like I'm more concerned about my feelings and God's call on my life and I'll tell you what. We might feel safe.

00;34;30;19 - 00;34;48;23
Nathan
Jonah tried to feel safe when he got on the boat, went the other way. He was actually less safe than he was. If he if he just obeyed in a way. But but, but in our our perceived safeness, we have an unsettled feeling of knowing that.

00;34;48;26 - 00;34;53;23
Nathan
What's my purpose in life? Our purpose in life as Christians isn't to make.

00;34;53;23 - 00;34;58;15
Nathan
A lot of money, be successful in our job, to do, have a great family or whatever.

00;34;58;17 - 00;35;03;19
Nathan
These are all good things, but our purpose is to be an ambassador.

00;35;03;19 - 00;35;05;23
Nathan
For Jesus Christ.

00;35;05;25 - 00;35;07;06
Nathan
That's why he left us here.

00;35;07;08 - 00;35;46;05
Nathan
When we got saved. Otherwise he could've just taken the straight to heaven. Why he left us here is now back. And when when we are not being an ambassador, it leaves us with that feeling of incompleteness. I'm not fulfilling my purpose for Christ. And so I just encourage anyone, you know, whatever you do, whether it's going out and talking to your family or friends, whether it's serving in some ministry where people know that you are letting your life shine, you know, maybe you just go and pick up the trash from your neighbor's yard and they're like, Why did you do that?

00;35;46;07 - 00;35;49;17
Nathan
Hey You know what? God loves me. I'm gonna show a little.

00;35;49;17 - 00;36;04;06
Nathan
Bit of love to you, and maybe that's all say, you know, I mean, I was picking up some trash in Burlington recently. I was like, I hope somebody asked me why why I'm picking up this because it wasn't in my yard or whatever. And I was just going to say, Hey.

00;36;04;08 - 00;36;07;12
Nathan
God loves me. He gave, me, the ability to do this.

00;36;07;12 - 00;36;34;13
Nathan
Why not? You know it open up now. It didn't happen. But but even everything I do, I try to think, how can I bring God into this conversation that just happened last week? So he's just fresh online and and putting our feelings behind us is saying, I want to be obedient to God. And I always remember Jeff Nelson was one of our field staff at one point in time, and I remember him speaking here at Harmony Bible Church.

00;36;34;15 - 00;36;54;04
Nathan
It's been quite a few years ago and he said some people ask him he was going to the Middle East, you know, I mean, all his family are blond, you know, I mean, you got to stand out in the Middle East blond family. And he said some people ask him sometimes, is it safe? And he says he says, I always respond, no, it's not safe.

00;36;54;06 - 00;37;21;21
Nathan
It's awesome. And that never that stuck with me. I'll never forget it, because that's the attitude that even when we're going into somewhere that we that we perceive as not safe, when we're doing God's will, there's a sense of satisfaction in that that that just trumps everything else. And, you know, so many Christians over the years have been.

00;37;21;21 - 00;37;23;01
Nathan
Martyred for the faith.

00;37;23;03 - 00;37;45;09
Nathan
You know, what were they safe and what they were doing. But think of the treasures they have left, laid up in heaven and the joys that they will have to be able to be called martyr for Jesus Christ. What we live here on this earth, Brenton, And we want to feel safe. War is just like a click. You snap your fingers compared to all eternity.

00;37;45;11 - 00;37;58;00
Nathan
And should we really be concerned about our little safety or our feelings or how we feel? Oh, we should be saying what Christ want in me, What would God want in me?

00;37;58;00 - 00;38;00;11
Nathan
And that's something we've got to struggle.

00;38;00;11 - 00;38;01;03
Nathan
With and say.

00;38;01;05 - 00;38;03;27
Nathan
You know what? I got to put myself.

00;38;03;27 - 00;38;06;25
Nathan
My feelings aside, and I say, Jesus.

00;38;06;27 - 00;38;13;04
Nathan
It's not about me, it's all about you. And I'm not saying that's an easy thing.

00;38;13;07 - 00;38;24;06
Nathan
But it's something that I think all of this should struggle with because I'm not God, it shouldn't be about me. He's God. It's should be all about him.

00;38;24;09 - 00;38;50;25
Brenton
Yeah. Yeah. And you you talk about martyrdom for the gospel. That's that's one side of it. But we're so far removed from that here in America that that the worst that we I mean, there are probably some situations that could be pretty tough. But but for the most part, we're we're just worried about being called weird. Right.

00;38;50;27 - 00;38;51;17
Nathan
Right.

00;38;51;18 - 00;39;09;17
Brenton
And and I'm not like necessarily discounting that because, I mean, that's me, too. Like, yeah, I'm not I'm not the first two to go do this, but how I mean, when we take a step back from it and think about like, what are the repercussions for us going out to someone and it's nothing.

00;39;09;24 - 00;39;37;05
Nathan
Right. But but that actually reminds me of something that actually happened this morning. I was meeting with a gentleman who is who was recently a convert, I mean, within the last month or two. And he told me, he says he went into a place last Sunday after church, actually, and met a bunch of his old buddies who are all bikers and crude whatever language.

00;39;37;05 - 00;39;38;00
Nathan
And and he says.

00;39;38;00 - 00;39;42;18
Nathan
Hey, you know what? I just trusted Christ. Recently I've changed my life.

00;39;42;21 - 00;39;53;17
Nathan
And one of them says, Oh, so you're one of those Bible thumpers now. Boom, Just what you are saying, talking about how are people going to look at me, perceive me? And he them. He says.

00;39;53;19 - 00;40;02;27
Nathan
Well, that's really cool. I guess. I guess that could be true. Sure. Yeah. And that was the end. But he says something interesting happen.

00;40;02;27 - 00;40;12;28
Nathan
Everybody there changed. They're there. You know, all of a sudden the crude language was gone. You know, I me it's like he made more of an impact just by saying, you.

00;40;12;28 - 00;40;17;01
Nathan
Know what this is? I'm different now. Yeah, I'm different now.

00;40;17;04 - 00;40;37;01
Nathan
It's like the the two instance that I talked about earlier that that the layman who was healing was praising God. It's like people notice they should notice. Yeah. When we have when there's a change in our life and the change in our life is not because we just decided to be good, you know, because Jesus did a work in my.

00;40;37;01 - 00;40;39;09
Nathan
Life and we shouldn't be ashamed of that. Yeah.

00;40;39;12 - 00;41;06;12
Nathan
And I and I don't know what's going to happen with any of them his by a judge, but I can guarantee you this. If one of them maybe tomorrow, maybe six years from now, I don't know if one of them gets into a place where where they're there, like I, yeah, I, I don't know what to do. And there and turmoil and then I just call up Brian and say, hey Brian.

00;41;06;14 - 00;41;08;04
Nathan
What do you got.

00;41;08;06 - 00;41;35;21
Nathan
There's, there's that, there's a verse in Ecclesiastes says it's better to go to a house of mourning than it is to a place of free of jubilation. In other words, it's better to go to a funeral than a party. Yeah. And then he goes on and explains, because when you go to a funeral, you reminded of the frailty of life that everyone it will come to an end.

00;41;35;23 - 00;41;37;28
Nathan
And sometimes it's.

00;41;37;28 - 00;41;57;15
Nathan
It's people that think nothing about eternity. But when they're faced with death, when they're faced with a hard situation, it's like they give you a call like, Hey, Brennan, I know you're a believer, because once upon a time I. I saw you standing up and you weren't afraid to tell me what you got. I need that. Yeah? Yeah.

00;41;57;17 - 00;42;02;20
Nathan
So just letting them know who you are is so awesome. And this is a brand new believers says.

00;42;02;23 - 00;42;06;10
Nathan
No, I'm changed. I'm different. Yeah. So awesome to see.

00;42;06;16 - 00;42;32;22
Brenton
Yeah, yeah. The stakes are pretty low for us to. To go out and talk. Yeah. Not much bad's going to happen to us here. Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's helpful. Well, thanks, Nathan. That was, uh. That was a good conversation and challenging. I needed as much as anyone, so I appreciate your your example in this especially, but. But you're just wisdom, knowledge and willingness to come and talk about it.

00;42;32;24 - 00;42;33;04
Brenton
Yeah.

00;42;33;04 - 00;42;57;18
Nathan
So it was great being here. And I always love talking about how we can share our faith. You know that. So man, if we all just said this week, I'm going to talk to somebody or even just let somebody even know I'm a believer that maybe didn't know. It's like it opens up the whole thing. So that's my challenge to everyone out there just to say, let people know you're a believer, see where it goes.

00;42;57;25 - 00;42;59;25
Nathan
Maybe that'll open up doors for you to be actually.

00;42;59;25 - 00;43;05;21
Nathan
Sharing what Jesus has done for you people. VOICE Yeah.

00;43;05;24 - 00;43;10;12
Brenton
Yeah. There's your church harmony. We will. We'll talk to you next week.