Bonus Episode 2: Interview with the Situmeang's

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Brenton
This is further a weekly show for the people of Harmony Bible Church, where we seek to revisit and expand on Sunday sermons with the goal of growing deeper in biblical truth that transforms our lives. Welcome back to Further for another bonus episode. As we wrap up our Leaving Leaving a Godly Legacy series, we thought it would be beneficial to get really practical here on the podcast.

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Brenton
And so to help us do that, we've invited two people that have just a ton of experience with raising a family, especially with the intention of caring the name of Christ on four generations. And so today we have Gyeonggi and Gene. So to me, young Welcome, guys.

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Djonggi
Welcome. Thank you.

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Brenton
Just want to, I think, start by having you guys kind of introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about your your role here at Harmony, your experience here, and then a little bit about your family.

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Jean
Well, my name is Gene. I'm married to Dong, who is an elder, which makes me an elder wife at Harmony, which is a role that has a lot of responsibility to it. We have been at Harmony for 23 years. Um hmm. Yes, we have nine kids ranging in ages from 31 to 16.

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Chris
Um, and two grandchildren too.

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Jean
Yes. And we've got I'm going to say we have five. Five? Yes. Not all of them are out yet. Some are still cooking. Yeah, we have five. Yes. And we I was a homeschool mom and we had a traditional home, I would say, where my husband worked. And I stayed home and tended to the kids and worked. Yeah.

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Djonggi
Without a paycheck. My name is Jackie, and Gene and I have been married now for 30 while 31 years going. I'm 32, actually forgot that extra year and I'm one of the elders here in Danville. And like my wife said, we've been here since the turn of the century and just love it here. We've grown, our family has grown.

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Djonggi
I think Gene and I have grown tremendously as well.

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Brenton
Every year it's good. Appreciate that. So another relevant point here, I think, is that both of you in some ways are first generation Christians. So can you can you talk a little bit about that in your lives?

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Jean
I was raised as a youngster in a mainline church. We did a cultural church, you know, like on the holidays sort of thing. And I would say that I had even my grandparents were aware of God acknowledged God. But I, I would say for me personally, I didn't see the Jesus Christ relationship part of it all. So I knew of church, went to church as a youngster, but then it dropped off in my teens.

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Jean
My parents stopped going to church and I went to a religious college. But yeah, and it was religion. That would be the way to put it. Yeah.

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Brenton
Yeah. Okay. What about. What about you?

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Djonggi
Yeah. So my mother was Muslim. My father married a muslim lady. He was raised in a Christian environment growing up. Eve And it's unusual. A group of people in Indonesia that were Christians and Sumatra and I my experience growing up was much like more of a traditional Christian. We would go to church regularly. So there was that rhythm, if you will, where there was a weekly thing.

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Djonggi
It was really more of a checkbox for me and quite frankly, something I didn't enjoy. And really it wasn't until age 30 again just before moving to Harmony, where the Lord got a hold of me and I realized the change that took place through the power of the Holy Spirit in my life. And I became a believer.

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Brenton
So you guys were already quite a ways into having kids at that point, right?

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Djonggi
Yes. At four.

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Jean
Four, actually five.

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Djonggi
We had five.

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Jean
We had five when I became a believer.

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Chris
And did you come to faith around the same time that Gyeonggi did?

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Jean
Yes, I was a little bit ahead of the game. God was gracious to me. There. And then. Yes, but not much. Maybe six months before.

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Djonggi
Just praise the Lord, because that's not a that's a time off. One person's a believer and the others not.

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Brenton
Yeah.

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Jean
Yeah.

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Brenton
So. And you said you guys had come to Harmony and that's where that where that happened?

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Jean
No harmony. Okay. Actually, I got involved in a Bible study with some ladies who were Euratom mainline church then, but they both came from a free background and so introduced me that way through the Lord to the Lord through the word. And then I started sharing with John Key.

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Djonggi
Right. And Jean, you know, quietly, gently shared, which I resented. I also resent the fact that I loved me and she loved me and now she loves Jesus. And I was quite put out at that moment. And also I was getting ready to actually quit medicine. I was three days from resigning and I was going to actually go into trim carpentry.

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Djonggi
So there was a lot of loads in that time where God really intervened to praise the Lord again.

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Brenton
So that's interesting. When I have this question about what you guys kind of thought about godly legacy, or maybe you you didn't think about that at all when when you're kind of in this time, you had both kind of given your lives to Christ and you're I assume your parenting kind of changes at that point. But now through this series, we're using this language of leaving a godly legacy.

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Brenton
Was that anywhere on your minds at that point?

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Jean
I would say it took us a while to grow from a worldly legacy to a godly legacy in youngest family line, The the last name, the surname was everything, you know. So you wanted to make sure that that key to my name was honored and respected, and you would never want to do anything to jeopardize that. So that was the legacy we were leaving as we became Christians and we had to morph out of that.

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Djonggi
And I think quite frankly, at that time in our life, we were kind of more in survival mode. And with the number of children in a full practice and homeschooling these forward thinking things, it didn't really occur to us. And it really it's just the grace of God, really, that, you know, that allowed us to persevere through that.

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Jean
But I do think the one part of it, though, is that in our relationship, Jong is the visionary for sure. He's the big picture guy and I'm all right. I'll get her done. You just tell me sometimes I'll prod him with a big picture idea. But so having that mindset allowed us to move pretty seamlessly into a godly legacy and say, okay, well, what's our big picture now?

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Jean
What is it that our goal is with these kids?

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Chris
So I know you guys fairly well and have have known over the years that you're pretty intentional with your family dynamics and pointing to your kids and thinking about these kind of things. How did that can you talk a little bit about how that kind of came to be? I'm sure it took some time, but how how did you guys have discussions about that?

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Chris
Was it very intentional or how kind of did that come to be?

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Djonggi
Yeah, so early on and Harmony, when we first came to Harmony, I have no idea why the elder board allowed us to do this, but we started teaching a class based on a book like.

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Jean
Right Away, right?

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Djonggi
Young believes you're early and it really shaped us, I think. And I'm in. I'm not going to advocate the book. I mean, it's a good book, but really the concept of shepherding a child's heart is really key. And that really set the tone for a lot of things we did. And I realized that it wasn't just about discipline, doing the right things, you know, I mean, the Bible says it's our are the overflow of the heart that the mouth speaks.

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Djonggi
And it's all a heart issue, which is very different from the way I was raised, which was more, you know, a more accomplishment driven and and status driven than heart issues. And that really was very formative, I think, in our parenting. And it gave us really a a common ground, if you will, in our parenting, because I was raised very strict and disciplinary military style.

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Djonggi
And Gene was raised in a democracy where they would kind of discuss how you're supposed to be punished.

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Jean
And I was able to ask why he was not allowed to ask why.

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Djonggi
So so really, that was part of that vision was cast really through scripture more than anything else.

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Brenton
So did did you guys, when you started intentionally having these conversations, do you think that you kind of messed your two childhoods together or did you kind of start over?

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Jean
We will say that that has been the hardest part of our marriage.

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Djonggi
Yeah, that's right.

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Jean
Yes. I mean, we can do finances. Fine. We can do other things fine. But boy, when it came to how we were going to raise our kids, that was the challenge. And and it's funny because we had the same end goal in mind. You know, it was just a matter of how we would get there. And as challenging as I'm sure I was to my husband, I also believe that it's a huge part of why God brings two completely different people together to be one and then raise a family because you each have something to bring to the table and way that you reflect God's character and Christ so that there'll be the full spectrum

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Jean
of His love in your family and not just one side of it.

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Brenton
And yeah, it's good. Do you have any thoughts on that?

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Djonggi
Well, no. Okay, that's very well. That's perfect.

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Chris
So could you just share a little bit about some of them, what I called habits on on Sunday? Other people would call them rhythms that you guys established for for your family in regards to trying to really shepherd the hearts of your children and some of the the intentional decisions you made, whether it would be family devotions or worship attendance or those kind of things.

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Chris
Just share some of those that you think were really important and significant in your your child's development.

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Djonggi
Yeah. So, you know, really I just want to emphasize here that, you know, those who know our family think that Gene and I are some spiritual giants or something. This is that's not that's so not true. And I want to tell everyone that's listening that, you know, setting a rhythm in your life is not about being a spiritual giant, you know?

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Djonggi
I mean, you could be out of shape, but go to the gym every day and your kids will see that. And they know that that's important, that you're going to the gym every day. And so it's not about how good we are at it. It's it's about how how diligent we are to pursue it. And really, you know, Jesus said in Matthew chapter six that, you know, you're where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

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Djonggi
And because God put it in our heart to treasure him, and really that's what he did, because I have a lot of other things I would treasure. I know myself, but really, God did that. And because of that, it's just basic common things with I really think that you could just as a father, sit at the breakfast table with your Bible open every morning and probably read nothing.

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Djonggi
And it would I mean, I'm advocating that. But your kids would your kids would watch and they would know that that's important to my dad. That's really important. My father has set aside time and that's really what it is. It's setting aside. We set aside a lot of things to do what we believe we're called to do. We set aside sports activities.

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Djonggi
I think that's one of the real problems with today's society is the amount of things that that that kids do. You mentioned earlier podcasts about busyness. Busyness is one of the statements, greatest tools. And so we you know, we were pretty hard lined about that. We said you get one sport a year because, well, first of all, we have nine kids.

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Djonggi
So, I mean, you know.

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Jean
But it was awesome. Family was important to us and we moved as a unit. And so if somebody had a football game, we all went to the football game to cheer them on. If somebody had a piano recital, we all went to the piano recital, so we couldn't do that. If we were going a gazillion different directions. Yes.

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Jean
So you were allowed to choose one activity per year. You could change it the next year, but one activity per year, and then we would be there to support you.

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Chris
So did your kids give you any pushback about that? Did you have to wrestle with that with them?

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Jean
Not much, but we're in with regard to sports. We're not huge sports people. We would do sports in the yard. You know, we we don't.

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Djonggi
Again, you know, we don't value it. And so our kids really don't really value it. You know, your kids will pretty much value what you value.

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Chris
But they're they're musicians, for sure. And so and then I think you also did some stuff with with schools activities, right? They do enrolled in. And so how did you navigate some of that to.

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Jean
Well, I think now, again, like Doug said, we didn't start out with, you know, a lightning bolt of information and wisdom in our heads. And so we a lot of it was trial and error, obviously. And we would begin to see the Lord would reveal to us certain gifting or certain pleasures in our children that were appropriate ways that they could worship the Lord.

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Jean
And sometimes that's academically, sometimes that's musically, sometimes that's service or sports. But as that came to light for us and we would try to encourage that in our kids and focus more so in on on how God could use that.

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Djonggi
And we were also intentional with sports and school that, you know, we would say, you know, winning the football game is not going to impress your father or your mother, But being an ambassador for Christ at the bottom of the dogpile, that's that's going to be something that I'm going to value. And so they knew that going into it, that the purpose was not to walk out with the trophy, at least for here on Earth.

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Djonggi
So we also I think another rhythm that's missing today is we pretty much insisted that at least once a day we would sit down as a family and have a meal. Now, that may be P.B. and J's on the sideline, but we had a meal together once a day.

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Jean
And that meal time actually grew into our devotion time. I wouldn't say that that started that way. We always prayed at meal time, but now, as routinely as possible, at the at the end of the meal, I would say our family is known if people come over that we sit at the table and we just talk for a while afterwards and.

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Chris
Then can we talk about that a little bit? Because there's a really interesting point that too long ago one of my children and this shouldn't surprise shouldn't have surprised me, but it did. He said, Yeah, none of my friends families, they ever sit down and eat meals together as a family. And we, you know, didn't do it a ton as much as even I would have liked to because again, the busyness and all that kind of stuff.

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Chris
But he was just remarking about how we did it significantly more than like little all of his friends. And so I think this is a really important point for our our families to get and to understand our young parents maybe in particular. How significant do you see those mealtimes being?

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Jean
I think they're key. Key to bonding your family, key to having a a window of opportunity to talk about things. You know, teens would just come up. We used to have a ministry with football players and from Iowa Wesleyan and they said the same thing, that that was one of their favorite things about coming to our house is that they never eat together with their families, you know, at home.

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Jean
That just was so important to us.

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Djonggi
And now that they've grown up, those college kids, football players have gotten their families, they do likewise, which is pretty cool.

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Jean
Now, I'm not going to say it's always easy. I mean, you got to you got to think ahead. You got to have your, you know, your meal ready. We tried to honor Pops when he got home, you know, and have it ready right away. And yeah, discuss whatever we could about the day there. And it's grown into now that harmony has these daily readings too for the past fall, a year and a half, you know, as long as you've been putting them on the and whatever the app, we often try to read whatever the daily reading is at the at the meal time and then do a little prayer after it.

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Jean
And we invite to the people who come to our table to join us with and we hold hands and and we tell them, you don't have to pray. And it's like quick. You can just say thank you for something if you want. It's nothing, you know, poetic necessarily. And if you don't want to squeeze the hand and keep going.

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Jean
But we people seem to chime in with that.

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Djonggi
Yeah. And we don't you know, as far as reading scripture and doing devotions, you know, we've tried everything. You know, I've spent hours trying to do something creative and doing something worthwhile. And it's frustrating to me. And because they just look at you like, you know, what are you talking about? And then it's frustrating to them and they're tired of it.

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Djonggi
And then I get this complete silence and then I'm done. And then they all start laughing about something else completely. So. So now for the last few years, all we do is just read scripture. And we really don't. Even unless someone wants to say something about it, we don't even discuss it and we just let the scripture speak for itself and which which has been very, you know, just very nice, really.

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Chris
I appreciate you sharing that. My kids are little weird. I would have all these plans and, you know, prepare like a whole service or whatever, and then somebody would always be going crazy and that the meal time or I tried to do it and it would end up in tears. Like for all of everybody. And we know I didn't even.

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Djonggi
Even even have laundry to do. It.

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Chris
And it just eventually I we just kind of learn, you know, it's it's the Deuteronomy six is like, you know, while you're you know, you're walking while you're sitting down while you're going to bed and it's just taking the opportunity to talk. And whenever the Lord brings those situations, most of the time there's something going on in our kids lives, our lives, the world that will enable us to to tie that in this to spiritual things.

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Chris
And of course, you know, even like you say, reading scripture and just allowing the scripture to speak and not thinking that we have to have some big formal like Sunday school program for for our kids all the time. Yeah.

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Brenton
No. And John, I like what you said, that sometimes it's just a peanut butter sandwich on where we're at. And I think that that could be a barrier to a lot of families. Now, Like, I have to prepare this whole meal or or whatever. And I think just prioritizing the actual event and the conversation over what what we're eating or how how prepared we are for it, I think it's probably a it's a good point.

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Djonggi
And I like what Chris said. People in there might hear my Bible slapping back verse. You know, really, our life here is an open book test. You know, really just open that book and answers are in there. But the Deuteronomy six passages that I mean, you know, we're supposed to impress these things on our children and talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road and you lie down when you get up, you know, the point of that is that you in order for you to leave a legacy, you first have to be together.

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Djonggi
You have to be a family. And I see so many families just rarely really spend time with each other. It's kind of odd.

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Brenton
Yeah, it's easy to get busy. That's yeah, that's a it's a good and just to kind of recap where we're at, I think is just slow down and be intentional with, with, with your family.

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Djonggi
Yeah. And keep the main thing, The main thing that's good.

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Jean
The family provides so much so many rich opportunities for developing godliness too, because it's not like your friends at school where you can get in a tearful with them and you go home and you choose somebody else. You have to learn to get along with your family and it just creates wonderful opportunities to talk about forgiveness and loving the other one, just as, you know, all that sort of thing.

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Brenton
Yeah.

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Chris
I've also seen you guys serve at church together a lot. Has that been intentional? And you talk about that a little bit.

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Jean
And service was a was a big mantra at our house and we were supposed to be servants. And I don't say that with any regret at all. And we're again, we started out from the worldly side, we're doers junky and I just we have energy, we get stuff done, you know, But we needed to shift that over. And this is so key for the rhythms is it's not the rhythms themselves that make the difference.

00;23;12;12 - 00;23;33;21
Jean
I believe. I mean, you get into this routine and it's good. There are useful means, but inadequate ends, I guess, is what I read somewhere that and it's so important to know why. Why are we doing this? Who are we doing this for? Is it for us? Is it for God? Is it is it because we want people to notice us?

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Jean
Is it because we've been given a task for Kingdom Girls? You know, Hawaii is key to me. Otherwise it becomes legalistic, really. You know?

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Djonggi
Yeah. Serving was a big thing for me. I'm by nature that kind of a person and my family and my parents were servants as well. And whatever function we went to, they were doing something. And so that was important to me. And I thought, you know, as we develop character in children, one of the habits, if you will, that we wanted to develop was serving.

00;24;12;22 - 00;24;38;08
Djonggi
Jesus said it's better to serve than be served. And, you know, quite frankly, every opportunity that I can get myself out of my own skin and my kids out of their skin is is a win, right? Because the more time we spend in our skin, the worse it is, if you know what I mean. We need you to get out there and and really deny yourself and do that.

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Brenton
Did you I assume you faced some pushback from your kids about serving as much as you did.

00;24;43;15 - 00;24;55;07
Djonggi
Oh, yeah. But they're really pretty. And we were again, blessed, I would say, with pretty compliant kids. But and they enjoyed each other's company. And part of that was coming along. But yeah.

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Jean
And that's part of the whole thing about doing it as a family, you know, then it becomes something, a memory in your treasure bank, more than just a duty that you had to do.

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Brenton
Yeah. Yeah. And some I think leading by example like you're talking about is, is important too. I mean, if you're just kind of pushing them off and say, Hey, go do this thing, it's yeah, it's different.

00;25;15;14 - 00;25;37;23
Chris
Maybe to be as helpful for our families as possible. My take on this, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you just pretty much said this is what it's going to be. And and we're not just the serving and is certainly that, but I'm talking like we're going to have meals together and we're going to be a family and we're going to spend quite a bit of time together.

00;25;37;23 - 00;26;13;15
Chris
And that's just kind of like you made that decision and then you stuck to it. Because what I see a lot of families doing is they they just allow everybody to go their own way and kind of do their own thing. And so then it's not it's not natural for families to spend time together. And so they don't even build those bonds between siblings and some in the kids and the parents and and so that just makes it easier to kind of go do your own thing and everybody's run in and and let the craziness get even crazier.

00;26;13;15 - 00;26;39;05
Chris
So, for example, one of the things I really like that you said is like, you know, you have nine kids and even if they're only doing one thing each a year, that's that's a more than most people with three or four kids who are doing three or three things or whatever a year. And with my math is right there, you close, okay, schools, you get the point and so but you were you were going to the piano recitals together as a family.

00;26;39;05 - 00;26;59;03
Chris
You're going to the soccer game together. And so you're not leaving a bunch of them at home. You're taking them together. And we're doing this together. So you built that togetherness and that just helped to we're serving together, we're eating meals together. And that seems to me have been a pretty key, key thing.

00;26;59;06 - 00;27;18;25
Djonggi
It is up to a certain point in their in their age. I remember distinctly sitting down with the boys. They like to do motocross. And, you know, they were talking what I thought about about them having they were going to go to a race and it was on Sunday morning in Missouri or something. And and I said, well, I just looked them.

00;27;18;25 - 00;27;28;19
Djonggi
I said, I think you know what? I think I said, I'm going to let you make the decision. And so I'm not sure what they decided. I forgot. I figured whatever they decided.

00;27;28;20 - 00;27;35;00
Chris
If I remember right, they went. And I think they did, though there there was.

00;27;35;03 - 00;27;53;05
Djonggi
But there's a point in time where, like, you know. Sure. And I just wanted to make sure that they knew what I valued. And then at some point they have to decide that they're going to value that, too. Now, right now, fortunately, our boys are are very, you know, into the word and go to church regularly and serve.

00;27;53;05 - 00;27;56;08
Djonggi
And so that's a blessing. But yeah, they had to make a decision.

00;27;56;09 - 00;28;17;23
Jean
If I were to go back and speak to that particular moment, I believe that you told them that was a y opportunity. You know, we don't go to church because you have to go to church every Sunday. We go to church because we want to thank the Lord and and honor him. And so that doesn't have to be forgive us, Chris, in a church building all the time.

00;28;17;25 - 00;28;36;09
Jean
So I do remember you saying to them, bring your Bible and do your own study together right there before the race and let other people see you do that if necessary. But the point is, first, you worship God and you honor him, and then you can talk about where and how and for how long.

00;28;36;12 - 00;28;55;02
Djonggi
And, you know, one of the coolest things now is that for the last four years or so, some of my boys started a Bible study on Saturday mornings from 6 to 8. And they after a few years of doing that, they actually invited their dad into this. And of course, they're their brother in laws are in there as well.

00;28;55;02 - 00;29;02;02
Djonggi
So that's a really cool, cool thing that they've taken some of that idea and prospered it themselves.

00;29;02;10 - 00;29;12;19
Chris
Which actually brings me to another question is do you find that your kids actually have in some ways disciple one another?

00;29;12;22 - 00;29;43;08
Jean
Yes, definitely. The that has taken place again with our girls. Our girls are younger group but they I think they noticed that our youngest one doesn't have that rhythm of togetherness. She's kind of a alone last one out there. And it's a totally different world at our house right now than it used to be. The Lord and I have lots of conversations about that, however.

00;29;43;11 - 00;30;08;21
Jean
But the older sisters decided to start a Bible study as well, to bring in their younger sisters and just keep that togetherness going. So definitely they are older brothers. We'll check in on younger sisters and brothers to brothers and all that. They it's cool. It kind of we kind of are working ourselves out of a role, but that's okay.

00;30;08;24 - 00;30;11;28
Jean
That's that's what we're supposed to do. Yeah.

00;30;12;00 - 00;30;22;14
Chris
Yeah, I understand a little bit. We're down to three, two, and it's much quieter these days around our house, so it's a little eerie at times.

00;30;22;17 - 00;30;41;15
Brenton
I've only been up to three, so it's pretty. I did want to ask, do you know a few of your kids? And I know the work ethic that was instilled in them. What was your what was your process for that?

00;30;41;18 - 00;31;01;21
Djonggi
Well, Jean, I'll speak for Jean. First of all, we had a matrix of chores so the kids would have, you know, each child on a particular day would have a certain thing they had to do. So that was that was kind of cool. And there was a bit of discipline there, not as in punishment, but just discipline and doing it on a daily basis.

00;31;01;25 - 00;31;23;24
Jean
And there was all the way to that. I hope that the kids walked away with the why, which is we live in a community and in community we all have a part to do and every part is important. I remember at one point Ellie was just little and her job was to bring a roll of toilet paper to every bathroom in on her day and you could seem like a minuscule type job to do.

00;31;23;26 - 00;31;37;20
Jean
However, when somebody was in the bathroom and didn't have that roll of toilet paper, all of a sudden you understood the importance of it. So another teaching moment of, okay, no matter what you're doing, it has importance. And so you need to make sure you do it.

00;31;37;22 - 00;31;38;20
Brenton
You know.

00;31;38;22 - 00;31;40;23
Chris
You guys probably went through a lot of toilet paper.

00;31;40;25 - 00;31;42;03
Jean
Kind of thinking about.

00;31;42;06 - 00;31;43;23
Brenton
A diverse subject.

00;31;43;25 - 00;32;08;23
Djonggi
Right now, you know, And I did things outside, usually invite the kids out and depending on what it was, they would be involved or not. And, you know, when they were younger, they just want to be around when they were older, you know, the you know, they had their own desires and their own schedules. So I tried to be respectful of that.

00;32;08;23 - 00;32;28;28
Djonggi
The purpose was never just to get work done. The purpose was to work together. And and that's and learn how. And that's regardless of whether project was finished or not. So when they got older, I of course, would say, hey, I need I need an hour of your time between this somewhere this afternoon, what would work best for your schedule?

00;32;29;00 - 00;32;49;10
Djonggi
And so trying to respect that a little bit rather than just force them to come out and work with dad, they eventually continued to work. I remember just the other day I was trying to take a tree down with Sophie, I mean with Ellie, and we're trying to throw a rock around one of the higher levels so I could pull it down and, you know, she was all and I said, I need 15 minutes of your time.

00;32;49;15 - 00;33;13;01
Djonggi
And so it ended up being a little competition between her and I. And we didn't accomplish it and we didn't get it done. But she actually were out there for about 45 minutes and I say, wow, okay, we had to be done and said, No, no, I want to keep trying. So it's kind of interesting how that dynamic works of don't just don't give up on on getting your kids to be with you.

00;33;13;03 - 00;33;25;20
Chris
That's great. So maybe some specifics here. So you're looking back mostly in the rearview mirror now, get another year left. Right?

00;33;25;22 - 00;33;27;02
Jean
She'll be a senior next year.

00;33;27;02 - 00;33;42;07
Chris
You'll be a senior. So what would you do if you had it to do over again? So you go back 30 years now, what would you do over again and what would you do differently?

00;33;42;10 - 00;33;59;24
Jean
One of the things that I, I think is normal but is a bummer is that we because we just became Christians, we did go through that legalistic phase, you know, with our kids of you have to do this. You have to be.

00;33;59;27 - 00;34;00;13
Djonggi
Kind.

00;34;00;20 - 00;34;27;10
Jean
You know, you have to whatever. And again, that's the before the why of it all. But I would try real hard to not lay the rules without the reason so much. And that was again, that was our backgrounds coming out. You know, I needed to I felt I needed to honor my husband and say, this has to be done because your dad is saying he wants it done.

00;34;27;12 - 00;34;48;05
Jean
But then I learned over the years that it was my job because I had the time in the moment to tell them why, why, why are we doing this? That would be one thing that you would change. Yeah. Okay. To be less legalistic if you could have been. Again, I think that's a normal phase for new believers, judgmental ism.

00;34;48;05 - 00;35;11;25
Jean
That's something that we've had to watch in our family, you know, because we do certain things certain ways. That's the way we do it. And then they notice other people don't do it that way. Does that make us any better than them? No, absolutely not. But that is that creeps in easily, you know, And it's also not fair at times.

00;35;11;25 - 00;35;29;24
Jean
Like we had this thing that we set up where most of most of our rhythms that we have come to come out of response to noticing something. So when we would sit down to eat, everybody would grab their food and not really pay attention to the fact that somebody at the other end of the table never got whatever was at this end of the table.

00;35;29;24 - 00;35;51;15
Jean
So we started we enacted this rule where you have to wait until everybody has everything on their plate before you can start eating. It was great for our family. I mean, it caused them to stop thinking about themself again. That's our mantra. Stop thinking about yourself and think and notice others. Look around, say who needs anything, and we'll see.

00;35;51;15 - 00;36;10;16
Jean
That is, did everybody get everything? It's all fine and dandy until somebody comes into our house that doesn't know that culture. And then all of a sudden it's easy to be like, Oh my goodness, they started eating. What? That's so bad, you know? No, that's not that was that was your bad that we had to start it. Okay.

00;36;10;16 - 00;36;14;02
Jean
So let's keep that in.

00;36;14;04 - 00;36;26;24
Djonggi
Yeah. That it changed the timing of the prayer because, you know, the minute that one of us said a man, it was like and they were listening to the prayer. So their fix it in their food. Yeah.

00;36;26;26 - 00;36;29;03
Jean
How about you? Are there things that you would do differently?

00;36;29;08 - 00;36;53;03
Djonggi
Differently. We'll start with that. I think it will get to the things that we do the same as a good closure. Yeah, I guess I was I was reflecting on that that question earlier today and I think I would boil it down to this. I would I would I think I would strive to be a better peacemaker. I'm a peacekeeper deeper.

00;36;53;03 - 00;37;13;16
Djonggi
And, you know, there's a missile named the peacekeeper and it's a nuclear missile. And that in my instances, if there's a conflict, you just kind of be quiet about it and hopefully it doesn't become a conflict anymore. And that's not being a peacemaker and it's quiet. No one's arguing. But you're not a peacemaker. Yes. You've kept the peace.

00;37;13;18 - 00;37;35;19
Djonggi
So I think, you know, you know, going in and seeing, just like in James one, the trials that are really for our benefit and God's glory, just really embracing those rather than running away from them and seeing that as a formative moment just for myself, formative moment for the people involved and ultimately for God's kingdom and God's glory.

00;37;35;22 - 00;37;54;13
Djonggi
I just didn't see it that way. I was tired. I just didn't want to deal with it. And kind of the way that I was raised was the other conflict that you just just avoid each other for three days and then it just hopefully blew over. And that did carry into our family. And if you ask our kids, that's that is something they remember as a black mark on the family.

00;37;54;16 - 00;38;22;20
Djonggi
And with that, I would probably ask for forgiveness way more way, way more in that setting, too, to be a peacemaker. So and, you know, the Bible says blessed are the peacemakers and, you know, inspire us when it comes over and out there. If you didn't do it right, God just is so generous and so merciful and so, so full of grace, and he blesses you in spite of your your shortcomings.

00;38;22;23 - 00;38;44;16
Djonggi
So anyway, you know, I think of that scripture that, you know, the prayers of James VI, the prayers of a righteous man of as much. And there's no way that most of my life I've felt righteous, but I know that God made me righteous. And that's why that's why things happened. Is is that just that, by God's grace?

00;38;44;18 - 00;38;59;09
Djonggi
So, yeah, I would I would definitely do do that differently quite a bit. So that'll be the main thing I probably would do. There's probably other things as well, but from a big visionary standpoint that would be the one.

00;38;59;16 - 00;39;25;11
Jean
Can I add one more? Yeah. And this maybe goes more to marriage than parenting, but plays out in parenting is it took us a while and we still obviously are working at it to realize that each of us though different, brings valuable stuff to the table and to appreciate what that other person is bringing to the table and to encourage that other person in what they're bringing to the table.

00;39;25;13 - 00;39;44;25
Jean
Sometimes we think, okay, this is the way I do it and this is the way I think it should be done. And therefore what I'm going to be grumpy if it's not happening that way, you know. But we need to again realize that we're all created in God's image differently. And that's beautiful and necessary.

00;39;44;28 - 00;40;18;22
Djonggi
Absolutely. Things I would repeat, I, I insisted once a year to take just Gene and myself on a vacation. Even when the kids were little, we were blessed to have other families that would actually take our kids. I think they're just as crazy as we are. And that did a couple of things. One, it provided a rest for us, but I think it also modeled to our children how important a marriage relationship is and how a husband should take the lead and and and actually casting that vision.

00;40;18;24 - 00;40;31;15
Djonggi
Now, she executed all the details of the vacation. But, you know, it doesn't have to be much people out there. You don't have to take your wife to Mexico mean it could be to you know, whatever the Smoky Mountains and Carmen.

00;40;31;15 - 00;40;34;26
Jean
That's on our anniversary went to Lisa's state park.

00;40;34;26 - 00;40;46;00
Djonggi
Yeah. So I mean it it just where I kissed a girl. But, I mean, that was just this year. But I mean, I'm just saying that that importance of that being modeled is is key.

00;40;46;04 - 00;41;03;00
Jean
And it also gave us the time, maybe at least me, it could declutter my life in my world enough for me to say, okay, gyeonggi, what are we doing with these kids again? Help me and remind me what's our goal? We would reestablish maybe.

00;41;03;02 - 00;41;05;09
Djonggi
An answer to the question of why did we have these kids?

00;41;05;09 - 00;41;06;05
Jean
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;41;06;06 - 00;41;14;04
Djonggi
I mean, people have kids. They have no idea why they have kids and the is in the Bible. But it's very important to refocus.

00;41;14;06 - 00;41;16;07
Chris
Not like why questioning or, you.

00;41;16;09 - 00;41;19;05
Djonggi
Know, nothing. Right? Yeah, right, right. I love talking like the purpose.

00;41;19;10 - 00;41;20;07
Chris
What's the purpose?

00;41;20;09 - 00;41;20;26
Djonggi
Right. Right.

00;41;20;26 - 00;41;23;16
Chris
And sometimes parents ask that question to it.

00;41;23;18 - 00;41;26;20
Djonggi
And why did this happen? Well, I don't want to explain that.

00;41;26;20 - 00;41;27;14
Chris
You are a doctor.

00;41;27;15 - 00;41;28;10
Brenton
Yeah.

00;41;28;12 - 00;41;29;26
Chris
That's for another bonus episode.

00;41;29;29 - 00;41;57;14
Djonggi
Right? Right. Definitely. So that's important. I the other thing I would do is there's two other things I would do. I would definitely model that, at least from a dad standpoint, that you're in community with other men, that that's important. My, my boys see that and our family sees that and not be so private about your family. That's that's a dangerous spot for a person to be private in a Christian world.

00;41;57;16 - 00;42;23;01
Djonggi
We always think it's my business. Well, you know, it's better to be. It's better to be scorned by a friend. And the then meet up with God someday and, you know, feel that. So it's it's just it's important to be open with with people and invite people into your lives and then be with other people. And then the last thing I would say is invite people generously to pray for a family.

00;42;23;01 - 00;42;45;05
Djonggi
I'm I don't prayer's not my strength. I think most Christians would say that. But I have I know a lot of people who are good at praying and I solicit their help and and ask them. And I really think that's a lot of the blessing of our family has been because of the prayers of other righteous people in our lives.

00;42;45;08 - 00;42;46;24
Djonggi
For sure.

00;42;46;26 - 00;42;49;05
Brenton
Know It's a it's a really good list. You got something else.

00;42;49;05 - 00;43;14;05
Jean
So one of the the real practical things that I would do, again is to have catch phrases, you know, things that your family develops that that help remind the people in your family where you're headed. So one of ours was who are you thinking about? That would be when something came up, a conflict. And it's a question I ask myself, even who are you thinking about as you're pushing this one?

00;43;14;05 - 00;43;37;28
Jean
Another one is that when we would pray or at times when I would talk, I would say I, I would ask God that we would love God more than anything else in the whole wide world that everybody in our family would just to put that out there, that thought again. And that's a little another catch phrase that probably my younger kids remember more.

00;43;38;00 - 00;43;47;26
Jean
So you come up with your own, you know, it'll be your own family's catchphrase, but a good thing to keep yourselves oriented. And other one is praying.

00;43;48;01 - 00;43;51;23
Djonggi
You know what I remember that one was a kind is necessary now.

00;43;51;23 - 00;43;56;14
Jean
They could become whippersnappers and say, Well, that's true. Yes. Is it.

00;43;56;17 - 00;43;58;00
Djonggi
Necessary?

00;43;58;03 - 00;44;23;27
Jean
Yes. And it's always humbling when they start throwing these back at you. Right. And you're like, oh, rats. Another thing that that I would do again and and this is only by the grace of God is in order for something to become a rhythm for for your children, you have to do it. It has to be a rhythm for you.

00;44;24;00 - 00;44;51;10
Jean
So again, you can't explain the why of why you're doing something if you haven't yourself experienced the blessing of doing it. You know? So praying. I have little prayer cards and and some of my my kids and my kids in law will say, we just know you're a prayer warrior. If we need something prayed for, well, we're going to we're going to tell Nana and it'll get prayed for.

00;44;51;12 - 00;45;11;06
Jean
So just really being in prayer for me was one of the major rhythms for my own walk, being in the word. And I think my kids know. Certainly my husband knows I need that time in the morning and it's you know, some people say it's a first cup of coffee, okay, I have coffee with it. But if I don't get right to my Bible, I'm in trouble.

00;45;11;06 - 00;45;43;17
Jean
And so the rest of the world, you know, that's how I have to start out my morning. That's my rhythm. And the thinking of others selflessness is another rhythm that I try to that that I appreciate and has brought me so much blessing. And so I try to instill that again. But but if you're not if you're not experiencing the blessings yourselves from the obedience of it, how are you going to convince anybody else that it's worthwhile?

00;45;43;20 - 00;46;05;22
Djonggi
Yeah, I'm not saying this is a little bit of a shift. I just want to say I know we're coming to a close and I just want to share one thing that is that I think is really important. Okay. So, you know, in the whole Deuteronomy six passage about God talking about how to raise a family, there's there's it's your responsible for the process.

00;46;05;24 - 00;46;36;22
Djonggi
You're not responsible for the product. And I just there's there was a heavy yoke about me because I'm very product oriented and my happiness comes from something getting accomplished or something being produced. And that even unfortunately early on in in child rearing was with our children as well. And quite literally their salvation, which I'm not proud to say that because that's super arrogant and, and a heavy yoke really when you when you feel that way.

00;46;36;24 - 00;47;02;01
Djonggi
And so I just want to tell people that, you know, how your kids turn out is not 100% you're doing an and there's no formula or secret sauce. Just stick to the process. Do what God wants you to do, be disciplined, be habitual, make it public what you do, you know that read in front of your kids. Just those kind of things go a long, long way.

00;47;02;08 - 00;47;20;26
Djonggi
Remember, you know, you can't screw your child up so bad that you damn them. I mean, and you can't save them. It's not your job. And so ease up a little bit on yourself and enjoy. And that's the other thing I would do differently. I would celebrate more. I am just that's not my nature. I would just celebrate a lot more.

00;47;20;28 - 00;47;23;10
Brenton
Mm hmm.

00;47;23;12 - 00;47;42;25
Jean
I think the the mantra that goes in, in my mind and I believe years to young guys, we are ambassadors for Christ, as if he were making his appeal through us on behalf of him, be reconciled to God. And that's that's the goal of all the rhythms is whether it's us being reconciled, helping someone else to be reconciled.

00;47;42;25 - 00;47;50;18
Chris
But thank you for getting to sing Christians Fight because we do that. I do that pretty much every episode.

00;47;50;20 - 00;48;14;08
Brenton
So well. A new segment. We're going to have a commercial break. Wow, that's really good. I really appreciate that. And I guess one more question to wrap up here. You're almost almost got all the kids out of the house what do you what do you see your role being now going forward?

00;48;14;10 - 00;48;42;29
Jean
Well, that's a that's one I've been wrestling with myself a lot lately, as I have. You know, I tiptoe in one side and most of my foot in the other side of the fence. But I see it for me as being an encourager, an encourager for my kids and encourager for my grandkids and encourager for my husband for me is going to be the same thing as just encouraging other people in what I've been able to, by the grace of God, experience.

00;48;43;02 - 00;49;07;17
Djonggi
Know your identity, what our identities are. Some are so hinged on what we do. You know, you ask. You ask any stranger about their children, and the first thing they tell you is where they live and what they do, not who they are. And as our world changes and what we do in our occupation is change. And our times change our identities always in Christ.

00;49;07;17 - 00;49;31;14
Djonggi
And and one of the things that that I believe he's calling me, particularly to do as I get more, quote, free time is really to to mentor and and disciple and walk with the younger men and just pour. I don't have to be you don't have to be super, you know, advanced to do this. You just dump everything, you know, into that person.

00;49;31;14 - 00;49;47;20
Djonggi
And when you're done, you find someone else for them, you know? And that's that's what it's what it's about. And so that's certainly what I hope to do. And that's probably a large part of my passion, is just to guide others as best as I can encourage them.

00;49;47;23 - 00;49;49;22
Brenton
It's good. So your job is not done?

00;49;49;25 - 00;49;52;27
Djonggi
No, not until the Lord calls me home.

00;49;52;29 - 00;50;02;05
Jean
Now, we sometimes can be very excited about that day and the rest that he promises. Then, yes, while we're here. Yes, we still have a job to do.

00;50;02;07 - 00;50;04;25
Djonggi
To work out our salvation.

00;50;04;27 - 00;50;09;05
Chris
To live as Christ in the day is game right?

00;50;09;07 - 00;50;22;01
Brenton
Well, guys, I really appreciate you coming in today. Yeah, it's been a great conversation and even especially helpful for me as a young dad, so I appreciate it a lot. All right. We will talk to you guys next week. Thanks.

00;50;22;03 - 00;50;22;16

Thank you very.